Behind the Mic: Exploring Shark Conservation with Mark Packer

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This is a bonus episode here on the Beyond Jaws podcast as we bring

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you every once in a while when we see some pretty cool people

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doing some pretty cool things, we like to have them on and talk to them. And although we may

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not be able to get them for an entire hour like we normally do

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and dive into their career just yet,

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we wanna highlight some of the things that they've been able to accomplish so

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quickly in their career and a particular project or a report. In

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this case, This is a podcast on podcasting. We're gonna be

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talking to Mark Packer from the Shark Trust, who they just

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launched a podcast. They just finished up their first series of the Shark Trust

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podcast, talking about everything that Shark Trust

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does, and it's an amazing podcast, and we wanted to have him on to be able

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to talk about why it started, why they're doing it, how they're doing

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it, how it's going, and when their next series starts. So

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we're gonna talk about that on this episode of the Beyond Us podcast. Let's

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start the show. Hey, everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of

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the Beyond Jaws podcast. This is a bonus episode, and we're going to

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be talking to Mark Packer of the Shark Trust,

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talking about their podcast, the Shark Trust podcast. And I'm here, I'm

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your co-host, Andrew Lewin, and I'm here with my co-host, Dr. David Ebert.

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Absolutely. I love, I love when these podcasts come out like

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this. And of course, you know, people, Paul Cox, Allie Hood,

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and Kat Gordon are all, you know, good friends of the show here. And,

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uh, I saw this podcast popped up. I thought we got to have, we got to have Mark

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on here to talk about, talk about podcasting. Cause it's like our

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favorite topic to talk about. And, uh, it's another, it's another

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wonderful show they have out another, another terrific podcast. And,

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uh, uh, it was, uh, it was a terrific interview and,

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uh, uh, Mark had a lot to say. And so we're hoping everybody

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will enjoy this, uh, this bonus episode, getting it, doing a bit of dive into

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Absolutely. This is going to be a lovely one. I hope that you guys are

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going to enjoy it. So here's the interview with Mark Packer from the

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Shark Trust talking about the Shark Truck podcast, Shark Trust podcast. Sorry.

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Enjoy the interview and we'll talk to you after. Hey, Mark. Welcome to the Beyond

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Jaws podcast. Are you ready to talk about sharks and podcasting?

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Right on. Well, welcome. Welcome, everyone, to a special bonus

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episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. Today we have Mark Packer,

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who's the host of the Shark Trust podcast. It's a new podcast that was recently

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launched in May of this year, and it delves behind the scenes of shark

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and ray conservation. Mark is a marine conservation and

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a qualified nurse specializing in mental health, which those of

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us in the field could use a lot of mental health help here. But

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he has a huge passion for the natural world with a focus on the marine environment and

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sharks in particular. Mark received his MSc in marine conservation

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from the University of Plymouth in 2021. And he started with

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the Shark Trust in 2022, covering a number of different roles

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from fundraising to engagement and science communication. And

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most recently now, the new Shark Trust podcast. And

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Mark has an aim to drive positive change at the intersection of environmental and

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mental well-being, benefiting both people and the sharks. And

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So how, I have to ask you though, how did you get interested in,

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in marine conservation and sharks in particular? How'd

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Um, I think probably quite, um, similar

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to a lot of people who, who work in natural

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sciences. Um, my kind of passion came from childhood.

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So when I was a kid, um, I was watching Steve Irwin, Steve

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Baxall on TV and I kind of loved

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the natural world. I always had a sister who would like take us out in the garden, looking

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for like newts and frogs and slow worms. So I

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kind of always had it in my mind as something I was really interested in.

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Um, but then when it came to studying

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and at school, it wasn't necessarily something that was on my radar cause I was like.

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I'm probably not smart enough to do that. There's

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no, I grew up in a little village in the countryside, like there's

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no sharks or sea near me. So I was like, I'm

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not gonna be doing that. So instead I

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went into nursing. um worked in

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that for a number of years um and i did absolutely

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love it um and then i was running

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a half marathon and i saw a

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guy who was also running it he ran for the shark trust he's

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now my boss we know him

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a bit yeah so i

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kind of learned a bit more about sharks i started following the shark trust

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um Learn more and more about it and I was like they are

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so cool. Like I always liked shots when I was a kid I had

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a book that I'd read Weekly, so I was kind of obsessed. I

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just didn't really know that they were in the trouble that they are in

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So kind of learning about that. I then became a bit more passionate about

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it and then I Yeah. In 2021, I

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think it's just after like working as a nurse during COVID and

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I was like, I just want to do something that I enjoy and

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something that I'm really passionate about. Uh, and

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yeah, I went back to university, studied marine conservation and, uh,

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And so, and this all came from like, you were out doing a half marathon. You, you

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yeah yeah yeah and then um i went to fundraise for the shark trust a

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couple years later uh and i'm quite competitive like

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young guy i was like oh i'm gonna do really well at here and

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i still remember at mile 10 when paul and his wife overtook me

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and i was just like like no like i'm not saying

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paul's old but he's older than me i was like i

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was like trying to catch up with him trying to talk to him to

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So did you guys like did you guys hatch the plan right there? It's like I'm gonna go back to

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school and when I come out Yeah, you got a job at the shark just how

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We kind of kept in touch a little bit like we've followed him on social media I'd

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message every now and again and then I The

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shark, so the marine conservation course at the University of

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Plymouth, they have like a, like almost like

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a dragon's den bit at the end. So people from different organizations

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will come in. You have to create like a fake NGO basically,

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like with other people in your cohort and

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then people who lead actual NGOs come in like and assess it.

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So the course has kind of helped partly designed by

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people who are already in the industry so you're being taught what is

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needed. Paul came and gave a couple of talks during

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that. And the moment I saw him come in, I was like, hey,

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Paul, do you remember me? It's Mark. I want a job at the end of this. And

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then, funnily enough, so I was still

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nursing during the master's. I was still working full

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time as a nurse, just because you

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got to work to kind of- Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you got to work, yeah. But

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the course is like full-time during the week, so I was working night shifts and

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then in Paul's workshops and I've just been like, I want a job here at the end of it.

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I fell asleep in both of his. Oh no! But

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luckily, the bits where I was awake, I showed enough passion

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and dedication that he was like, yeah, I still want you on my team.

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You know joining a joining a team like the shark trust,

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you know, it's a it's a great nonprofit organization You

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know you coming out with this this masters in in

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marine conservation Did

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you just be like was there jobs available or did you kind of

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go in and be like hey I want to work with you and and you know Paul

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had the idea or you know people at the shark trust had an idea of a

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position that they were thinking about had that had it all work out and

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My kind of end goal was going to be the shark trust like that's always kind of

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where When I came onto the course, that's where I wanted to be. So I

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kind of thought If I get there in like five years ten years

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time, yeah Long-term plan i'm quite happy with that. Um,

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and when we come to the end of the course, you know You start looking at jobs because you're like, oh i'm gonna

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need a job in three six months time i'll start looking around

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yeah i was looking around all these various ones uh and

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a job actually came up as a fundraising assistant at the chart trust and

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i was like it might not be my ideal end

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goal i was like but i'm already working there i'll

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be learning stuff and then that might set me up in the future to apply

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for another job within the chart trust uh that can't be

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more suited to what i wanted in the future And that's

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basically what happened. I joined and then my job is

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slowly kind of adapted. So I still kind of have that fundraising element, which

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kind of gives me a lot of skills for the future anyway. I've kind of, I

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never realized how important fundraising and all the financial planning

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that, I mean, Paul's doing a CEO, how important that is for a

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charity and conservation work. So kind of seeing how

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that works, learning those skills, I think it's been really helpful. And

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then I've kind of gone into this more kind of outreach engagement

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and science communication added into that. I

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For sure. Well, now, and obviously, too, like when you do communication, there

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is fundraising involved. It's part of the fundraising aspect.

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I've seen a lot of jobs that come up and it's like, you know, fundraising and

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communications coordinator or managers, things like that. I mean, it's

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pretty related, especially when you look at a nonprofit organization, right?

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yeah yeah and i think when so

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i'd only known paul and i knew of ali from i'd seen

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her on twitter um at the shark trust so

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when i applied like i thought the shark trust was like 200 odd

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people i thought it was this like huge Big organization, like

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I'm always seen on Twitter. I'm always Seeing like all the things that

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I do and I thought there were loads of them and then when I joined I was like there's

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only ten of you like and then you look at everyone's job

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roles and everyone's doing so much work bits of everything like Yes, I

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mean it was amazing really but it kind of benefits me a

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bit So it means I can do a bit of everything and learn all these new skills from everyone, right?

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Yeah. And of course, Paul, he was on the show

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a while, about a year and a half or so ago, when they had the Sharks International. And

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he comes from a banking background, actually. And

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now he's running the Shark Trust. So that had

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to have been, I think that may have, do you think that may have helped at all? The fact that

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he didn't go through certainly a traditional trajectory

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from, to marine conservation, to science,

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you know, he came from a very different background. Similar to

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you, but he basically got into following his passion And when

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I Think so, I think Maybe having that like

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pool has the outlook. It's not Do you know

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everything in the world about shots? It's what are your skills? What would

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that bring to the team right and how can we kind of use it as

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a whole team? So I think kind of him understanding that

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I mean, my skills, although I've got a self-taught knowledge

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of sharks, like I don't have a background in marine biology. or

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marine sciences, but my skills in mental health nursing is,

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is how to talk to people. Um, like that was, that was

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my job for eight years. That's kind of what I

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specialize in. And he was like, well, if you want to end up in science communication, those

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are the skills we're going to use. And then he would help develop, help

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me develop that into science communication, opposed to like

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therapy and stuff like that. So yeah, I think having those

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pool, having that different background helped as well. Cause it's kind of like a, figurehead

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like kind of to look up to and you're like if he can do it so can other people

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and that's actually kind of gone through the shark trust because

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there's quite a few of us who have now got different backgrounds like whether

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it's languages or journalism and stuff like that.

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Yeah, I've said that for years, though. It really helps when you have people

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from different professional backgrounds come together, especially

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with a non-profit organization. I mean, having someone as the CEO of

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a non-profit organization that used to be in banking obviously understands money and understands

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how to run a business. And I think that's

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really important. So it'll be important when

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other people come from different backgrounds and share the same passion when

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it comes to the Shark Trust and sharks. So I think that's

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really great to see. So that's definitely an

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I think something you said too, Mark, and I know we stress a lot of times when

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we interview guests on here, particularly younger people

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listening that are getting started in that, learn skills.

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Because the more skills you have, like I have graduate students

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come into the program, like at Moss Landing, And I'm like,

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I can teach you all about sharks. Don't worry about that. I don't care if

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you don't know anything about sharks when you come in here. What I'm more focused on, and

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most people will tell you, is what skills do you have? Are

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you a diver? Can you run a boat? What kind of analytical skills

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do you have? And even things that you may not think about in

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the field that just other

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things that may not seem not

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relevant to what you're doing, but they actually could have some potential, they

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could be applicable to the field. So what

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you said about having skill, I think is really an important point.

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And people listen to this, something to hope they pick up

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on, like just whatever skills you can learn would

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be really helpful. And then they can teach about

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sharks. Speaking of which, have you picked up a

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lot about sharks since you've been there? More than, I assume you

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so much so much what i thought the shark world

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and shark conservation world was was like it was

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literally like a tip of an iceberg and then there's

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i mean i still think i'm still on the tip if i'm honest i don't

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There's a lot to learn. There's definitely a lot to learn. I was the same way. I

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was not a shark person. I love sharks, but obviously I wasn't

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specialized in sharks like a lot of the people we've had on this podcast, and of course Dave.

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But you start to learn. You start to pick up a lot, and you

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learn a lot about different sharks as you go along, even just the amount of

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different sharks. I mean, talking to this guy who's like the lost shark guy and

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hearing all the different species that he discovered and knows

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So you got into your role there with the Shark Trust. How'd

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How'd that all come about? So,

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I mean, I've always absolutely loved podcasts. I listen to

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them constantly, whether

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it's educational or I could just listen to fictional ones. So I'm

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like a quite a big podcast kind of lover anyway. When

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I joined the Shark Trust, I kind of had this view of

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what marine conservation or shark conservation was. And

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I thought I knew quite a lot about it, because I thought I was quite informed

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like on anything like a charity or an

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organization's releasing, like I'll read their press release, I'll then go and

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read some like backing papers and stuff they've done. I'm like, I've

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got the hang of this, like I'm very informed and then when I joined

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here and just kind of talking to

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Ali Hood who's been working here like 20 odd years,

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this huge background and she'll start explaining

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stuff to me and I'm just like, oh my god, like the

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depth and complexities of how shark conservation actually works.

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It's ridiculous. And she'll talk to me for hours, she'll

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be like drawing me diagraphs of how it works, trying to help me understand it. And

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I was like, if I thought I knew how it

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worked, and I very clearly didn't, there's probably loads

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of other people that do as well. And I was like, if we

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want people to kind of support campaigns, support us in protecting sharks,

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We can give them more information through the

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use of podcasts because podcasts can be a lot longer. You

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can go into a lot more depth and people, if they've had enough, they

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could click pause and stuff like that. Um, so I was like, this is kind of.

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More kind of focus for people who want to know more about shark conservation and

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then they can look at how it actually works behind the scenes and

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then how they can get more involved. Um, so kind

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of using. the Shark Trust and the work that they've done to

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kind of explain how international fisheries work,

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how you get like a

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catch limit on a shark, and then how the governments process

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that, how they agree that, what an exception ends

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up for another country, how they all work, and

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how different programs get set up, how we all work together. So

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the podcast is kind of a way to kind of go into all

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And so when you have when you have so when you have people what kind of topics do

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When you have people on like yeah, is it kind of vary or I keep talking about

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some of the different topics You've had so far in some of your episodes So

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so kind of the first series we kind of did this Kind

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of focus on the sharp trust so I kind of spoke to each person here

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about their roles maybe the program that they're focusing on how

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it works just so they can kind of give us that a that top layer

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of it and then in the later series we can go kind

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of more and more in deep detail giving kind of live updates

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of things that are happening. So like the first episode

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we're meeting with Paul Cox the CEO who was

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on here before and he kind of gives this kind of massive overview of

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the world of shark conservation, how the shark trust works, and

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kind of the threats that sharks are facing. And then

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the next episode we kind of go for like this deep dive into international

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fisheries and policy with Ali Hood, our Director of

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Conservation. as she's she's

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got the kind of brain that you want to like plug a usb into and just kind of download

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it all i just hope that you can get it because when she talks to you you

289
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know you're only getting like two percent of of what's in

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there or probably not even that um and

291
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like her episode we actually had to We had to stop it

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because the cameras were going to run out of battery. You

293
00:18:52,451 --> 00:18:55,752
don't want it to stop because she's saying so much stuff and you're just like, give me more,

294
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give me more. So we're going to do

295
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a couple more episodes and that's still just skimming the surface. so

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many amazing things she talks about in international fisheries

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and how working with companies to get different protections in

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kind of works and that's all stuff that you don't necessarily see

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from the kind of public facing side of shark conservation. And

300
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then in episode 3 I talked to Jack

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00:19:23,967 --> 00:19:27,348
Rennick He's kind of our fisheries officer and that kind of goes straight into

302
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UK fisheries Kind of like more localized. So

303
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:34,512
Ali's kind of more the international level and the Jets kind of comes on

304
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to this kind of regional Level

305
00:19:37,734 --> 00:19:41,055
with the UK and then also the EU and

306
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looking at the other complexities and organizations in that because I

307
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think Ali's focus kind of like on like

308
00:19:47,620 --> 00:19:50,981
the countries yeah and then when you go to jack's one suddenly you're looking

309
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at uh different organizations yep because obviously it's

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just the uk but yeah for sure you're looking at you

311
00:19:58,885 --> 00:20:02,926
know the government ones whether it's the marine management organization defra

312
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then you're looking at other stakeholders like anglers and it's

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just this kind of whole host and it shows that like It looks really

314
00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:13,631
complex from the start and then when you get in, you're like, oh, this is even more,

315
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Yeah. We also don't hear a lot about the

316
00:20:18,312 --> 00:20:21,473
UK fisheries internationally, right? I'm sure that it's talked about

317
00:20:21,493 --> 00:20:24,674
within the UK, but, you know, for someone living in Canada or for Dave living in

318
00:20:24,694 --> 00:20:28,255
the US, you know, you don't hear a lot being spoken about,

319
00:20:28,795 --> 00:20:32,316
about the UK fisheries. I discovered a little bit more just during, during

320
00:20:32,336 --> 00:20:35,959
my other podcast, how to protect the ocean, but. It's

321
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nice to hear people from within just kind of talk about it frankly

322
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and just be like, this is where we're at. This is the basics

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and how it's kind of divided up and here are the NGOs that work

324
00:20:46,891 --> 00:20:50,675
within it and some of the government departments. It's nice to have that

325
00:20:51,116 --> 00:20:54,400
ability to be able to talk about that and get the basics in it right

326
00:20:55,993 --> 00:20:59,135
yeah and i think i think being able to talk about it and

327
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then like in the future i'd love to be able to go and talk to people in

328
00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:07,382
other countries organizations that organizations in other countries

329
00:21:07,422 --> 00:21:10,664
that manage it there like we've got um partners all

330
00:21:10,704 --> 00:21:13,947
around the world that work in shark conservation i'll be like well how does it work

331
00:21:14,007 --> 00:21:17,330
there how's that different from the uk um what

332
00:21:17,370 --> 00:21:20,712
can we do to kind of work together to to

333
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make them all kind of Come together and kind

334
00:21:23,898 --> 00:21:27,700
of sing sing from the same hymn sheet so that we can get

335
00:21:30,861 --> 00:21:34,243
Yeah, that would be that would be great Yeah now with that said

336
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No, go ahead with that said, you know, you're looking at expanding it.

337
00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:41,746
This is a you just finished up the first series um You

338
00:21:41,786 --> 00:21:45,268
know and and I think it's it's a great first series um

339
00:21:46,752 --> 00:21:50,313
what's the plan in the future? And then I guess with this first series, as

340
00:21:50,353 --> 00:21:54,155
an organization, you're trying to say, put out this podcast, let's

341
00:21:54,195 --> 00:21:58,717
see how it does, let's see if it's a benefit. I've

342
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done it from an independent point of view, on my own, as

343
00:22:02,398 --> 00:22:05,499
a passion, Dave and I, we do this, we have

344
00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:08,960
certain goals that we want to be able to accomplish, but we're

345
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,582
also not affiliated necessarily with any organization. And then the podcast, this

346
00:22:12,602 --> 00:22:16,423
podcast, is not affiliated necessarily with any organization. For,

347
00:22:16,584 --> 00:22:20,107
for the shark dress podcast, how is it like

348
00:22:24,152 --> 00:22:27,616
Um, I think, I think there's like different aspects

349
00:22:27,656 --> 00:22:30,819
to kind of look at it. Cause there's kind of like the, you can look at it like

350
00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:34,403
from the metric side, you know, how many downloads that had, how much engagement.

351
00:22:35,643 --> 00:22:38,784
but I think Kind of our vision of the

352
00:22:38,804 --> 00:22:42,344
podcast is to to talk about how our

353
00:22:42,404 --> 00:22:45,545
work works And that's not necessarily just for the

354
00:22:45,585 --> 00:22:49,426
benefit of us. Of course, you know, we've got uh supporters

355
00:22:49,486 --> 00:22:53,047
who who donate to us every month we've got um We

356
00:22:53,087 --> 00:22:56,427
might have major donors who will come and come and talk to us to to

357
00:22:56,487 --> 00:23:00,568
help support our work And the podcast is just one kind

358
00:23:00,588 --> 00:23:03,892
of way that we can talk about what we work we can we

359
00:23:03,912 --> 00:23:06,996
can tell them what the money that they've donated and

360
00:23:07,016 --> 00:23:10,400
they've given us is supporting in kind of that that

361
00:23:10,460 --> 00:23:14,184
kind of detail opposed to us sending them a an

362
00:23:14,264 --> 00:23:17,848
email which might be 400 words or like an infographic being

363
00:23:17,868 --> 00:23:21,231
like this is what we've done this year we could be like This is

364
00:23:21,991 --> 00:23:26,593
the detailed work of what we've done this year in a digestible Way

365
00:23:26,653 --> 00:23:29,913
discussing kind of complexities so that you know what you've

366
00:23:29,953 --> 00:23:33,094
helped achieve. Yeah, and I

367
00:23:34,214 --> 00:23:37,415
Think the the beauty of podcasts is that you can use

368
00:23:37,435 --> 00:23:40,616
them for more than more than one thing Like it's not just a podcast. It's

369
00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:43,777
multi-purposed first in use episodes of

370
00:23:43,797 --> 00:23:46,918
the podcast and As presentations we can

371
00:23:46,978 --> 00:23:51,139
use it for our social media. We can use it to help with getting

372
00:23:51,199 --> 00:23:55,560
grants helping apply for other things So

373
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,182
it's having this kind of multi-purposed Kind of tool almost

374
00:23:59,402 --> 00:24:02,583
the benefits not only us but everyone who wants to support us

375
00:24:02,783 --> 00:24:06,284
or learn about shark conservation And

376
00:24:07,023 --> 00:24:10,166
Yeah, no, I love that. I think that's the way to do it. You know,

377
00:24:10,226 --> 00:24:13,529
you get to know, you know, as a listener, I get to know the people who work

378
00:24:13,549 --> 00:24:16,672
within the Shark Trust, which is a lot of fun for me. But to

379
00:24:17,252 --> 00:24:20,355
hear the in detail, and sort

380
00:24:20,395 --> 00:24:23,898
of like a raw fashion too, right? Like it's not a

381
00:24:23,938 --> 00:24:27,541
BBC podcast. It's not, it's like these are two people having

382
00:24:27,561 --> 00:24:30,763
a frank conversation, like a fun conversation about the work that they do

383
00:24:30,843 --> 00:24:33,986
and I love that because you can hear the passion in

384
00:24:34,306 --> 00:24:37,528
Paul's, you know, in Paul's voice. You

385
00:24:37,568 --> 00:24:40,710
hear the passion in Ali's voice. You hear that just, I think you just had

386
00:24:40,790 --> 00:24:44,153
Rachel on and I think you mentioned, sorry, who was it? Jack.

387
00:24:44,393 --> 00:24:47,495
You know, when you hear their voice, you hear the passion in their voices of

388
00:24:47,615 --> 00:24:51,098
how they're talking about how much they know. All of a sudden, if you

389
00:24:51,118 --> 00:24:54,280
decide to gonna donate to anywhere, if you're listening to that

390
00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:57,703
podcast on a regular basis, you'd be like, well, I'm hearing what they're

391
00:24:57,723 --> 00:25:01,606
saying. Like I'm hearing what the Shark Trust does each and every episode.

392
00:25:01,666 --> 00:25:04,988
So this is kind of giving my update. I don't need an email, which I probably won't

393
00:25:05,028 --> 00:25:08,311
read anyway. And you're not gonna give as much detail in. I'm

394
00:25:08,331 --> 00:25:11,433
gonna put in the podcast. Obviously, I'm a huge advocate of this way of doing it

395
00:25:11,493 --> 00:25:14,795
for an organization. And I think this

396
00:25:14,855 --> 00:25:18,817
is the way, I just think that this is the way to go forward, you

397
00:25:18,857 --> 00:25:22,418
know, and to get more information out there about

398
00:25:22,438 --> 00:25:25,559
the work that you do, because the Shark Trust does a lot of work, just not only on

399
00:25:25,859 --> 00:25:29,420
with the, was it 10 people you said that work with, that work just

400
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,662
directly for it, but then you have partners and collaborators that work as well that

401
00:25:32,682 --> 00:25:36,563
you can feature and be able to discuss that type of

402
00:25:36,623 --> 00:25:40,624
information. So I love that. Yeah, that's

403
00:25:40,644 --> 00:25:43,766
the way it should be done. That's the way it should be done. Sorry, Dave, I think

404
00:25:45,406 --> 00:25:48,467
No, no, I was just gonna say, yeah, I think these, I mean, I really got into the

405
00:25:48,507 --> 00:25:52,329
whole podcast thing. How I got into it is Andrew

406
00:25:52,349 --> 00:25:55,890
invited me on his podcast about, what was it, about seven years ago

407
00:25:55,910 --> 00:25:58,991
now or so? I'd never done a podcast. I

408
00:25:59,031 --> 00:26:03,213
came on and him and I just, we just hit it off like amazing.

409
00:26:03,233 --> 00:26:06,374
We ended up speaking longer off air than we did on air. And

410
00:26:06,434 --> 00:26:09,860
I was totally hooked after that. And then I just, He kept inviting

411
00:26:09,901 --> 00:26:13,563
me back on to where it's like, hey, why don't we actually start our own podcast?

412
00:26:14,123 --> 00:26:17,325
Is kind of how he got into doing the whole, doing our

413
00:26:17,365 --> 00:26:20,727
whole story. That's literally how it got. I never had any

414
00:26:20,807 --> 00:26:24,069
idea I'd ever done a podcast. I really didn't know much

415
00:26:24,109 --> 00:26:28,732
about him. And now I'm totally into it and I'm totally hooked on it. And

416
00:26:28,772 --> 00:26:32,635
I think, as Andrew was saying, the whole communication part of it is

417
00:26:32,675 --> 00:26:35,897
just, I think it's great. It's like now we can have a conversation to

418
00:26:35,917 --> 00:26:39,119
learn more about what you're doing about the shark trust and get

419
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,002
with our show. We like to get to know the people behind doing the program.

420
00:26:43,962 --> 00:26:47,144
You know, like yourself, like, like how do you obviously you said

421
00:26:47,164 --> 00:26:50,206
you're really into the podcast realm anyway. And so it

422
00:26:50,226 --> 00:26:53,909
was a nice opportunity for you to get in and actually be able to host a host

423
00:26:53,969 --> 00:26:57,371
or show on your individual shows.

424
00:26:57,411 --> 00:27:01,253
Mark, do you have like about how long do they go? Like they sort of like whatever,

425
00:27:06,328 --> 00:27:10,191
yeah yeah so i'd say like most episodes are going to be between 30 and

426
00:27:10,531 --> 00:27:13,813
40 minutes because we do video versions as well

427
00:27:14,614 --> 00:27:18,917
and so we're limited by battery as well of cameras so

428
00:27:18,937 --> 00:27:22,220
it means ours ours are usually between 30 and 45 and

429
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,742
then We, some

430
00:27:26,782 --> 00:27:30,584
colleagues of mine, so me, Louis, he does all of our content creation,

431
00:27:30,624 --> 00:27:34,406
so making our videos, doing a lot of our social media stuff. And

432
00:27:34,426 --> 00:27:37,687
then Caroline, who's our marketing manager. We went out to

433
00:27:37,888 --> 00:27:41,489
go diving, which is like a dive show in Coventry. We

434
00:27:42,090 --> 00:27:45,971
went out there and a lot of our patrons where they're giving talks and we're like We

435
00:27:46,011 --> 00:27:49,133
can we're about to start a podcast. I was like we

436
00:27:49,153 --> 00:27:52,274
can talk to them we can get get them on our podcast and

437
00:27:53,055 --> 00:27:56,596
they have like Limited time because they are giving talks

438
00:27:56,656 --> 00:28:00,338
on stage to those people and we're like if you can give us 10 minutes Come

439
00:28:00,478 --> 00:28:04,920
on, talk to us about your favorite diving experience because

440
00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:08,882
we're kind of looking at the different audiences that that

441
00:28:08,902 --> 00:28:12,463
there are in shark conservation different ones that you'd want to target and

442
00:28:12,483 --> 00:28:15,624
i'm always like i've always got paul's voice in the back of my head and

443
00:28:15,644 --> 00:28:19,066
they're like who is your target audience here yeah and then make

444
00:28:19,106 --> 00:28:22,247
sure you get it to them and i was like those little episodes are either for

445
00:28:22,267 --> 00:28:25,788
people who are really passionate about diving with sharks already

446
00:28:25,828 --> 00:28:29,089
that i've got hundreds and hundreds of dives in or

447
00:28:29,589 --> 00:28:32,790
people who have never dived before and they're contemplating it

448
00:28:33,211 --> 00:28:36,492
and i think once you have been in the water with

449
00:28:36,552 --> 00:28:40,059
a shark You're always gonna want to conserve

450
00:28:40,099 --> 00:28:43,482
them Like it's always something you're gonna want to do. Um

451
00:28:44,442 --> 00:28:47,844
so like I Kind of got into sharks and I uh, I

452
00:28:47,864 --> 00:28:51,046
couldn't actually swim. I was scared of the sea. Um Like this

453
00:28:51,066 --> 00:28:54,609
is like back in 2015 when I met paul I couldn't swim,

454
00:28:55,270 --> 00:28:58,994
terrified to go in the water in case I drown. And then I

455
00:28:59,955 --> 00:29:03,258
went in the water with sharks for the first time a couple of days ago. It's just

456
00:29:03,378 --> 00:29:06,842
on Friday. My girlfriend

457
00:29:06,882 --> 00:29:10,245
paid for her family and me to go

458
00:29:10,285 --> 00:29:13,693
on a blue shark snorkel trip. okay and it was the first time

459
00:29:13,713 --> 00:29:16,834
i've been like they've said blue sharks are inquisitive and i've said it

460
00:29:16,874 --> 00:29:19,995
in talks for the last two years yeah i did i did not

461
00:29:20,035 --> 00:29:23,397
know what that word meant like they are up

462
00:29:23,457 --> 00:29:26,678
in your face they're swimming around you and there's this

463
00:29:27,258 --> 00:29:31,020
um a code of conduct uh developed by marico um

464
00:29:31,380 --> 00:29:34,682
and cat uh who works here helps uh helped in developing it

465
00:29:34,762 --> 00:29:37,863
and Like they follow obviously this code of conduct and

466
00:29:38,363 --> 00:29:41,765
one of them is you cannot like do not touch the sharks,

467
00:29:41,805 --> 00:29:45,107
which yeah, it's obviously That's kind of I

468
00:29:45,147 --> 00:29:48,409
thought oh, that's obvious They get so close. You're like i'm

469
00:29:48,429 --> 00:29:54,432
not touching the shark, but it's touching me Yeah, yeah,

470
00:29:54,572 --> 00:29:59,214
it's amazing how close they can swim to you and not touch you Yeah,

471
00:29:59,615 --> 00:30:02,756
they yeah, it's just absolutely incredible experience and

472
00:30:02,776 --> 00:30:06,073
I was like if we can get people to talk about those,

473
00:30:06,313 --> 00:30:09,516
those experiences that they have had and that kind of passionate way that they can

474
00:30:09,556 --> 00:30:12,638
get it across. People are going to want to learn more and

475
00:30:12,678 --> 00:30:16,100
more about sharks and then hopefully they'll listen to the other episodes, start learning about

476
00:30:16,521 --> 00:30:20,263
how shark conservation works, how they can get involved. Um, so

477
00:30:20,324 --> 00:30:23,906
yeah, those bonus mini episodes are probably about 10 minutes maximum.

478
00:30:24,667 --> 00:30:28,470
Um, and we've got like Monty Halls, Miranda Kristofnikov, Simon

479
00:30:28,490 --> 00:30:32,392
Rogerson and, um, Donovan Lewis. So

480
00:30:33,333 --> 00:30:36,622
amazing, amazing people. Yeah, and then you just finished your first

481
00:30:36,662 --> 00:30:40,123
season now Uh, yeah,

482
00:30:40,163 --> 00:30:44,605
so our final episodes, uh went out today so Recording

483
00:30:44,625 --> 00:30:48,007
it on the 23rd of july. Um, yeah went out, uh, and

484
00:30:48,027 --> 00:30:51,789
that was an interview of rachel brooks who's again

485
00:30:51,809 --> 00:30:55,611
an amazing kind of background she's a studied zoology,

486
00:30:56,271 --> 00:30:59,613
went and I think learned to dive and stuff

487
00:30:59,633 --> 00:31:02,855
in Egypt, went to the Canary Islands and then she's

488
00:31:03,275 --> 00:31:07,058
ended up in Scotland. She's become this wildlife artist,

489
00:31:07,118 --> 00:31:10,560
scientific illustrator and she was doing Bats

490
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,162
and Sharks with Bats and Sharks Scotland and

491
00:31:15,403 --> 00:31:18,745
she's just got this huge amazing knowledge and then she's also

492
00:31:18,785 --> 00:31:22,278
got that creative background so talking to her about about

493
00:31:22,358 --> 00:31:26,739
basking sharks it kind of comes out in this like really creative kind

494
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:30,080
of almost poetic way. So we've just done an episode of

495
00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:33,621
her to kind of finish the season because basking

496
00:31:33,641 --> 00:31:36,862
sharks are probably the UK's most iconic species or

497
00:31:36,902 --> 00:31:40,183
most well known at least. So we were just

498
00:31:40,203 --> 00:31:43,844
like we'll end on a high of this one with Rachel and

499
00:31:44,024 --> 00:31:47,185
it's basking shark season right now so okay it's just

500
00:31:48,427 --> 00:31:51,630
Okay, good. And you said in your episodes you have episodes like

501
00:31:51,770 --> 00:31:54,833
one every other week and then you have your your mini episodes kind of

502
00:31:58,482 --> 00:32:02,425
Yeah, so we yeah, we put them out every other week. So yeah bi-weekly and

503
00:32:02,445 --> 00:32:05,648
then well if we have a bonus mini episode We'll chuck that

504
00:32:05,708 --> 00:32:08,870
in just it's like a nice little nugget of information that people can

505
00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:12,353
have in the middle And then we're gonna take a short break

506
00:32:13,374 --> 00:32:16,736
At the moment just because we've just finished series one and then

507
00:32:17,177 --> 00:32:20,679
go in series two where we're kind of looking More

508
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,902
at what successful shark conservation means and then what

509
00:32:23,942 --> 00:32:29,764
the impacts that can have so everyone

510
00:32:29,784 --> 00:32:32,888
likes to talk about shark conservation in this like really positive light but i want to

511
00:32:32,928 --> 00:32:35,971
look at the positives and the negatives of

512
00:32:36,011 --> 00:32:39,494
shark conservation because if we're able to identify those yep then

513
00:32:40,415 --> 00:32:43,839
we're not going to take a step back because we can prepare for those negative

514
00:32:43,879 --> 00:32:47,542
things we're talking about like depredation where know

515
00:32:47,582 --> 00:32:51,207
people who spend the most amount of time by the sea you know they're angling

516
00:32:51,247 --> 00:32:54,491
and stuff like that if their favorite hobby is getting ruined because the

517
00:32:54,531 --> 00:32:59,077
sharks are stealing their fish and they go and talk to you

518
00:32:59,097 --> 00:33:02,983
know here it'd be like an MP those

519
00:33:03,003 --> 00:33:07,906
are the people who make the decisions. So if we're able to look at these potential

520
00:33:07,946 --> 00:33:11,368
future issues and then make steps to mitigate them,

521
00:33:12,369 --> 00:33:15,511
then shark conservation can keep going forward instead of

522
00:33:17,652 --> 00:33:21,354
Absolutely. That's great. That's cool, Mark. Mark,

523
00:33:21,534 --> 00:33:25,277
I want to thank you for coming on today to talk a little bit about your new podcast. And

524
00:33:25,317 --> 00:33:28,518
we wish you all the best. And we're definitely going to have you

525
00:33:28,558 --> 00:33:31,752
come back on here. We'll do more of

526
00:33:31,772 --> 00:33:35,215
a focused episode on you, the Mark Packer story.

527
00:33:35,816 --> 00:33:39,119
And we look forward to that. And we wish you all the best of luck on

528
00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:42,703
the Shark Trust podcast. And hope he does

529
00:33:46,998 --> 00:33:50,260
Thank you so much for being on the show Thank you so much for having me.

530
00:33:52,122 --> 00:33:55,725
Thank you Thank you very much mark for joining us on this episode

531
00:33:55,805 --> 00:33:59,168
of the beyond jaws podcast a bonus episode Really love

532
00:33:59,188 --> 00:34:02,310
the fact that we talked about podcasting Dave I think this is

533
00:34:02,350 --> 00:34:05,713
something that we would want to talk more about when with other

534
00:34:05,753 --> 00:34:08,816
podcasts and I think it's you know Jumping into it

535
00:34:08,896 --> 00:34:12,238
as I love podcasts I think it's really great that

536
00:34:12,278 --> 00:34:15,800
we're able to see more of these platforms and

537
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,242
more podcasts on this platform be able to be published and

538
00:34:19,322 --> 00:34:22,524
so more people can listen to it. You know, a lot of people would think, oh,

539
00:34:22,544 --> 00:34:25,706
well, you guys already have a podcast. Don't you want anybody else to do? It's like,

540
00:34:25,907 --> 00:34:29,288
absolutely. Not everybody identifies with us. We have a very different mission

541
00:34:29,649 --> 00:34:33,050
than what the Shark Trust podcast has. And we like to support

542
00:34:33,070 --> 00:34:36,432
other podcasts as much as possible. So, Dave, you

543
00:34:36,472 --> 00:34:39,614
know, from an organizational perspective, you

544
00:34:39,654 --> 00:34:43,296
know, being able to launch a podcast like this, what

545
00:34:43,316 --> 00:34:46,397
do you think about this? Do you think this is a good idea for the

546
00:34:47,558 --> 00:34:50,740
Oh, yeah. No, to me, it seemed like a natural extension for those of us

547
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,281
in the field that attended the Sharks International a year and a

548
00:34:54,321 --> 00:34:57,543
half ago. Actually, it was in Valencia, Spain. But

549
00:34:57,583 --> 00:35:01,184
the week before that, they had an online version where they

550
00:35:01,204 --> 00:35:06,265
interviewed people. And Paul Cox, the CEO, and Allie Hood had

551
00:35:06,305 --> 00:35:10,406
people. Basically, it was run like an ongoing TV show

552
00:35:10,426 --> 00:35:13,787
where they'd come on, talk about the presentations that

553
00:35:13,827 --> 00:35:17,168
people had just seen because it was online at the time. And then the following week,

554
00:35:17,188 --> 00:35:20,489
when they had the in-person conference, it was the same thing. It

555
00:35:20,509 --> 00:35:24,110
was all virtual. You could go online if you were subscribed

556
00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:27,581
to the area, attended the conference and watch

557
00:35:27,641 --> 00:35:31,342
the pod, and watch, well it wasn't a podcast, it was a video series. And

558
00:35:31,383 --> 00:35:34,604
so this seemed like the natural extension to me, that they would just go

559
00:35:34,804 --> 00:35:38,206
from there to doing a podcast. And

560
00:35:38,246 --> 00:35:41,827
they'd get in, they'd talk to the different people, different aspects, like Mark

561
00:35:41,847 --> 00:35:45,069
talked about today. I thought it was interesting, he's, you know, was

562
00:35:45,129 --> 00:35:48,510
very into podcasting himself, didn't see himself ever actually

563
00:35:48,970 --> 00:35:52,412
hosting one, and now he is, so it was kind of cool hearing that story.

564
00:35:52,432 --> 00:35:55,564
I have to say, I was kind of funny, I thought when

565
00:35:55,584 --> 00:35:58,706
he talked about how he met this to me, it was, I have to get into this

566
00:35:58,726 --> 00:36:02,008
when you have him back on here in the future about how

567
00:36:02,048 --> 00:36:05,471
he, we met literally, he was running a half marathon. He met Paul Cox

568
00:36:05,491 --> 00:36:08,693
while he was running. And, um, he commented how he was trying

569
00:36:08,733 --> 00:36:12,795
to beat Paul in the race and Paul ended up beating him, which is probably a good thing. Probably if

570
00:36:12,835 --> 00:36:16,258
he would have won, he may not be, he may not be sitting here to

571
00:36:16,298 --> 00:36:19,780
help him get a job. But, but I thought it was just a, it was one of the more interesting

572
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,013
ways somebody actually connected. with someone who

573
00:36:23,033 --> 00:36:26,296
eventually became their boss and with an organization that

574
00:36:26,316 --> 00:36:29,478
he's now with, who would have thought a couple years ago what that would

575
00:36:29,518 --> 00:36:32,761
lead to. So I thought that was a fascinating story

576
00:36:32,781 --> 00:36:36,004
in itself. You never know how you end up getting in

577
00:36:36,044 --> 00:36:39,727
some of these different positions in the shark world. And I

578
00:36:39,747 --> 00:36:43,250
thought that was such an interesting story. And I think the fact

579
00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:46,673
that Paul also came from a non-science background, and

580
00:36:46,713 --> 00:36:50,098
now he runs a shark trust, probably helped him a bit. As

581
00:36:50,138 --> 00:36:53,301
he said in the, in the interview about getting on there, just, but it was,

582
00:36:53,582 --> 00:36:56,965
it was, I think the key thing was skills, all the skills that he had that really

583
00:36:57,005 --> 00:37:00,128
helped him get into the position he's in. And I think that's something we do

584
00:37:00,169 --> 00:37:03,532
emphasize with a lot of people. When we talk with Andrew, we interview

585
00:37:03,592 --> 00:37:07,156
is about, they'll almost always come back. Some something about learning skills,

586
00:37:07,176 --> 00:37:10,419
because we can teach about sharks and stuff, but if you, if you have

587
00:37:10,439 --> 00:37:13,784
the skills, that's, what's going to help get you in the door. for graduate school or

588
00:37:16,786 --> 00:37:20,729
100%. 100%. I think that's something that needs

589
00:37:20,749 --> 00:37:23,851
to increase. We need to see more of these types of podcasts and need to

590
00:37:23,891 --> 00:37:27,033
see more of this type of education get around. A lot of people know a lot

591
00:37:27,053 --> 00:37:30,435
about sharks from different episodes like Shark

592
00:37:30,475 --> 00:37:34,178
Week and Shark Fest, but we know those are catered towards a specific audience

593
00:37:34,238 --> 00:37:37,480
and there's an audience that wants to know more about conservation and

594
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,662
wants to know about shark science and wants to know more about you know,

595
00:37:40,722 --> 00:37:44,224
things other than those iconic species and other sharks. And I think you'll

596
00:37:44,244 --> 00:37:48,166
get that with the Shark Trust, you know, and I think that's really important. So again,

597
00:37:48,226 --> 00:37:51,447
Mark, thank you so much. We'll put all the links to the podcast so that people

598
00:37:51,487 --> 00:37:54,729
can get access to it as well as the Shark Trust website. And Dave, if people

599
00:37:57,310 --> 00:38:00,612
Instagram, it's Lost Shark Guy, Lost Sharks on Facebook and

600
00:38:00,652 --> 00:38:04,013
Lost Shark Guy on X. And of course, I'm also on

601
00:38:04,053 --> 00:38:07,455
LinkedIn, Dave Ebert. And please go on our YouTube

602
00:38:07,495 --> 00:38:10,731
channel. of the Beyond Jaws podcast and

603
00:38:10,771 --> 00:38:15,475
subscribe and please leave comments. We'd love to hear from you and

604
00:38:15,495 --> 00:38:18,978
just see what we can do for the show. So thanks

605
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:23,662
Absolutely. Yes. Thank you so much for joining us. And Dave, thank you. Mark,

606
00:38:23,702 --> 00:38:26,924
thank you very much for the podcast and for coming on ours to

607
00:38:27,004 --> 00:38:30,207
talk about your podcast. And we appreciate everybody for listening to

608
00:38:30,227 --> 00:38:33,790
this episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. From Dave and I, we thank you so much. Have