Transcript
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Ladies and gentlemen and fellow shark scientists and
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enthusiasts and conservationists, we have a very special episode today.
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Normally, we have a guest on. Today, we do have
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a guest on, but he's actually our co-host. Dr. David Ebert is going to
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be talking about his latest trip for searching
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for lost sharks. And this is a doozy, because
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he may have found one. But you're going to have to listen to the rest of
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the episode to find out. So let's start the show. Hey
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everybody, welcome back to another episode of the
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Beyond Jaws podcast. I am today, I'm normally
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your co-host, but today I am your host because our
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guest, Dr. David Ebert is normally my other co-host
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and he's the guy you've been listening to ask questions to other
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guests and today he is going to be our guest because I
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asked him to come on the podcast to talk about his trip his
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latest trip to Australia, Southeast
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Asia, to look for more lost sharks.
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And the question when we always look
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at these types of trips is,
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are we gonna find sharks? What are the odds
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that we're gonna find sharks? So we're gonna find that out all today. It's gonna be
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a blast. Dave, are you ready
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Absolutely, Andrew. I'm so happy to
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be here on this podcast with you. Such
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I'm actually just glad to be back. made it back out
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of the places I just went to, which we'll get
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into some of the other adventure parts of the story during
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this special bonus episode. Absolutely. Yeah.
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Thanks for having me on as your guest this week. You
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Special guest. Yeah. Always a pleasure to have you on. You're welcome
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Look this has been you know, it's it's it's always cool because last year
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you went away to Ecuador and Peru this year you
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went to Northern Australia you went to East
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Timor you went to Indonesia
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she went to Jakarta and Bali I spent a little time in Singapore and
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then back to to Darwin Australia We're gonna talk all about
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those trips you know what your goals were but
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also like the prep for these types of trips because this is a lot of logistics a
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lot of countries that you don't travel to on a regular basis
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and so I want to just kind of chat you know and and a lot of
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collaborations there's a lot of people that you went with different people and
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of course shout out to Denise who is your videographer and
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we were going to be coming out with a lot of episodes and a lot of content
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coming out Video wise on on some
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some YouTube channels. We'll let you know when that comes out because we got one coming out quite
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soon if it's not already out by the time we put this up, but
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This is this is gonna be a lot of fun. So I'm looking forward to this. So Dave Let's
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just talk about what the goal of the trip was like where you
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Yeah well first of all, I want to say that this is a Project
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that's being funded by the Save Our Seas Foundation through
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one of their Keystone grants And I can't thank the
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Save Our Seas Foundation enough, because they've been really supportive of
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the Lost Sharks Program and Lost Sharks Project.
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And it's just really helped fill
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a niche here to try to get out and find these lost species that
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we've been looking for. And last year, as you know, I went to Ecuador and Peru.
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And we'll have more coming out of that as part of a documentary series. As
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you mentioned, we'll elaborate more in the next few weeks. But
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anyway, this was year two of the project, and this year we went to Northern
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Australia, the Northern Territories, Darwin, and
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met up with a good friend of mine, a colleague, Dr.
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Peter Kind, and a number of students from
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his lab. And then from there we went on to East
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Timor, which is also known as Timor-Leste. It's actually one
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of the newest countries in the world, which I'll talk about a little more in a moment. And
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then we did a swing all the way through Indonesia, starting
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in Bali. Then we went on to Jakarta. Then we wound up
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in the Rio Islands out in far Western Indonesia.
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And then at the end of the trip, we went and had a day or two in Singapore
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at the end, which was basically just kind of the jump off point for
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the end of the trip. And then we came back to Darwin and spent
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a few days there wrapping up some stuff. But you
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talk about your preparation for something like this. Yeah. Holy
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Well, here, let me just start. Let me just let me just start with this, because I
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mean, the first I've got a lot of questions around around the prep,
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but like the first and foremost is you want to make sure that
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there are there are specific things you are going to do in each
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and every place. Right. So let's let's just name
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them off and kind of just talk about what you what
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the purpose of in that and like briefly, you don't have to go into too
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Right. Now, the basic summary of
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the project is to highlight these lost sharks, as I call
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them, these species that may be disappearing with no one really
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paying much attention to because, you know, Things like white sharks, tiger sharks,
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they get a lot of publicity and there's actually
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a lot of protections for them. But the species I'm looking for, and again,
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I work a lot with collaborations, it's huge. I couldn't do what
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I do without the collaborations I have. And a lot of it's just come
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from setting up a network over the last 40 years of my career. And
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so it's really, the overall goal is
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to highlight these species before they disappear, before they
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go extinct. And I'll talk about really
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the first species that is part of this thing I'll get
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into in a moment. There is one species that we're looking for that actually has
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been officially declared extinct. And I'll talk about that a little
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more in a moment. But you asked about the prep into
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something like this. And keep in mind, this basically covered
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five countries over the course of a month, basically.
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I had like 10 flights. I covered 12 time
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zones. And
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conditions were varied from fairly nice
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in Darwin to kind of the outback basically in
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A little rough. A little rough. Rough in terms of like environment, right?
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I mean, you're talking about some of the places, there's really not any
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roads to speak of. You just kind of have to go with what's there. And
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so then you don't have a lot of really great facilities. But
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anyway, so I had to as far as prep, you know, I had to basically be a travel agent
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to book all the these flights, because I had a team of
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people going, which are a lot mostly graduate students
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from Pete Kine's lab. And so I had different students
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on different parts of the project. And they were on this project, because
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each of them is working in a different, different part of the cut
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Yeah, exactly. They all had they all knew the they all knew the the lay
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of the land, so to speak, when we go there. So that was important, too. So
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I had to book flights not just for myself, but for all the team. Then
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I had, of course, Denise Sotomayor was filming
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the whole journey as part of the project. And
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so that was a whole thing in itself. I kind of felt like a travel agent just getting that
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part together. Then the time goes into researching the
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whole project, like what we're going. OK, we're going to this location to do
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this. We're going to this location to do that. And as I was researching, a
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few locations came up that I wasn't anticipating. And
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probably the biggest one that came up in
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the whole project was Timor-Leste, East Timor, because
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I was not originally had that on my radar until
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a colleague of mine who I had published a paper with recently, I
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found out she's now, she was based in Palau, but
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now she's with World Fish, and she's based in Timor-Leste.
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And she coincidentally started sending me some photos
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of some sharks and rays, because she's not a shark person herself. And
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so she started sending me stuff, asking about these things. And
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so she wanted, anyway, so I
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was identifying, and I kind of said, oh, what are you doing in Timor-Leste? She says, oh, I
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live here now. I work here. And so that got my attention because nobody's
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done any research that I'm aware of
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on sharks and rays in Timor-Leste. So I, so
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I worked in that into the whole project and
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that turned out to be just a phenomenal, a phenomenal story
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in itself. And I'll, I'll get into talk a little bit about today, but
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I'll get into, we'll have a future episode where I'll get into this a lot more detail.
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Cause this was a whole, a whole issue. And if you know anything about
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East Timor. I'm sure a lot of people out there have to go look at a
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map to figure out where it is, but it's just, yeah, it's just,
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it's just like about an hour, an hour and a half flight from Darwin, Australia, which
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is up in the far Northern part. And, um, they, they
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had a long, I'll just give the short story, but they went through a brutal war
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And like recently, though, you recently the reason it was as
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if it was like 60 years ago. No, no. The war in the 1990s,
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The war, the war, the war just ended in 2002. Yeah. And then they
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had then they went through some civil unrest within the country, kind of different
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parties jockeying for power and stuff, trying to figure things out.
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And so they've had a very challenging recent history.
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They say they only became a country in, you know, 2002, 2003. They
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actually officially became a country. that it was recognized by
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the world. And so, the thing
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is, unfortunately, when the Indonesians left, they
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pretty much destroyed the country. And so it's still undergoing a
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lot of rehabilitation, rebuilding. There's a lot of
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foreign aid you see in there. When I was just
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there, you see a lot of foreign aid trying to rebuild it. But you
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get outside the capital of Dili, and I covered the whole country.
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I mean, we went everywhere. And it's not a big country. but it would take hours
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to get anywhere because the roads are just so bad. And
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a lot of places you'd have to drive along creek beds and stuff. And
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again, I was there in the dry season, wet season, you can't get
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around very well in a lot of areas just because of the flooding
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that takes place there. And you also have interesting thing I'll
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talk a little more about is you have crocodiles are
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all over the place and you can't get in and out of some towns because there's
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Oh yeah, and that was a whole other thing is that we
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dealt with, and I actually dealt with this pretty much the whole trip from when we
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started off in northern Australia, we had crocodiles,
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we were out in the boat, we went out, oh let's back up and start off, we started off
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in northern Australia going out fishing for river sharks, which
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was a highlight for me, I'd always wanted to see
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these things in the wild, and I come from, this
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was a species that was thought extinct, for over the past
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hundred years. And it was only about 15 years ago, Pete Kind and
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some others got onto the fact that there was kind of a stronghold of
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these things in Northern Australia. And they've pretty much disappeared everywhere
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else. So Pete's been researching these things there.
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And we'll have him talk a little more detail in a future episode. But
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you go up there to fish for these things. We go up there and we're tagging them, tagging and
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releasing them with Pete and Julia Constance. And
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there's so many crocodiles around like you can't even like sit at
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the edge of the boat. You got to kind of stay in the middle of the boat because crocs literally
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will lunge out and take you off the boat. And you
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see a lot and you see crocodiles from things that are maybe four or five
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feet to 15 feet. Uh, at least one
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of them was probably 17, 18 feet. And I'll tell you
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after seeing a lot of 15 footers, you see one is 18 feet. You're like,
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Holy moly. That's a, that's a big fucking croc.
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And they're just, and they're just kind of sitting on those A lot of them are swimming across
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the river, they're sitting on the banks, they look like they're not doing anything. Believe
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So this is an interesting part, because we talk about the
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prep of this, looking at what kind of sharks you're going
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to look for for each place, right? And here's the thing
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that I have. These are places where a lot of times you haven't been.
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And some of them are a little rougher in
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terms of conditions than others. You
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have graduate students who've done work in there, so they have a little bit more of
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the lay of the land. But, you know, you're doing
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this, you know, associated with Save Our
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Seas, but a lot of it's just, it's you and your graduate students and
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things. How do you look out for safety when
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you plan these things? Because it's almost like you have
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Oh, yeah. I mean, I can only prepare so much of my, and a part of it is like looking at
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the species we might encounter, you know, kind of learning, knowing
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what the red list assessments are in these things and what we might find. And
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of course, the river sharks was a high priority on this whole thing.
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Timor-Leste was just a complete wide open thing. Now, when you're working in
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Australia, particularly through the university, you have
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a whole protocol you have to go through. Gotcha. And so there's a
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whole thing like, you got to do this, you got to do that, you got to be here, you got to stay here.
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And crocodiles are just one thing. There's some other stuff too.
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And keep in mind, We're working on sharks and sharks are kind of like low
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in the priority. What I'm really worried about, it's more of the other unknown
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safeties, crocodiles. And if you remember last year, I think I talked a
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little bit about last year's thing, a whole different set of things in
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Ecuador, particularly we had a lot of civil unrest when
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Yeah, because there was like a political part, there was a political election going
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There was an election going on and there were people being assassinated, political
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people, candidates. Drug cartels, you
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know, we got chased out of several fish markets. We were just told to leave or
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die. And so I'm just kind of contrasting
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last year to this year where we're more worried about some of the wildlife with
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So it was less like worrying about people and worrying about sort
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of some of the major events that were going on and
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worrying more about nature and just being safe and being aware of
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Right, yeah. And like I said, in Australia you have They got protocols you
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have to follow. And, you know, Pete went over all those things with us. And
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that, and that's when I go to countries like that, you kind of
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like got a set of protocols and you're aware of that. Now, when
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you go to Timor Leste, East Timor, that's a different
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story because there's really nothing there.
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You just have some of the people, you know, again, you're, I'm working with local people there. Uh,
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the Timorese, uh, with, uh, Dr. Lowe's Clausen's, she's actually
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a South African who did her PhD at a Rhodes university. where
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I did, but she's an earlier career researcher,
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and she actually worked on pipefish and seahorses. And so
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she didn't really know anything about sharks, and so she
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contacted me, and now we're actually gonna be
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doing some stuff on sharks, because she connected, this is
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why it's really important to work with people in country, because she connected me with all
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the people at the university, within the government, The
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person who's in charge of their blue economy unit and everything, and I had
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a chance to speak with them, give talks, do workshops. And
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so I was able to do a lot of that stuff while I was there.
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I made a lot for the short amount of time I was there, I made quite a bit of progress in
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terms of laying the groundwork for what I hope will be some future research
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over there. And then we went around everywhere. As I said, the
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dry season, we were just going. It was a little easier
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to get around, but the roads were not very good. It'd take you hours to
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go. you know, 10, 20 kilometers just sometimes, just
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because the roads were so bad. And then, you know, the interesting
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thing, just not to dwell all on the crocodiles, but there's
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so many crocodiles in Timor, you'd stop, like,
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you know, you may or may not be at some place
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where you could actually have a bathroom facility or something, and you can't actually
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walk off the road because you might get taken by a
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crocodile. And you would be like, there'd be situations where
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I'd be like walking across a bridge to the beach, and you
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look down to one side of the bridge and you see like this 15-foot crocodile. You
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look on the other side of the bridge and a bunch of kids are playing in the creek. And
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the locals have, you ask them about them, they're just like, well, you know, they
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live here too. And, you know, which I'd be
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About that. And they have names for all the, the local
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crocodiles that they're familiar with, they have names for all of them. The
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thing I hit on was almost every place
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we went, you talk to people and you get some story of, oh
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yeah, somebody got taken last week by a crocodile. Somebody got taken
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a few weeks ago, last month. There's some recent story about
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somebody at every place we went. And you're thinking like,
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my God, these things are like all over the place. And they're just like, well, you just got to be
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careful where you walk. And I'm thinking like, yeah, okay. Just
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be careful. But you know, you can easily forget. You're going along, look at the countryside, beautiful
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places, look at the ocean. And just so everybody understands, these
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are saltwater crocodiles. So it's like, yeah,
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so like we're, you know, on the beach looking at somebody fisherman's catch. And
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then we look up the beach, like about a hundred meters. And there's this big crocodile
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comes walking out of the bush, walks across the beach, goes and surf and goes swimming out.
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And so, um, you realize like, okay, I may not,
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even though it's like, it's a beautiful looking beach. I may not want to go swimming out here because
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it might not end well for me. And, um, So,
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that was kind of some of the prep stuff. That
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stuff you can't really, all you can do is talk to the locals and be as alert as
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you can on where you are. I talked a little
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bit about the megafauna, but you got things you weren't concerned about.
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You prep as best you can for it, but you got things
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like malaria, dengue fever, and those types of
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diseases from mosquitoes you got to be concerned about
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as well. So, you do the best you can in terms of those types
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of precautions. you have to realize some places, I have
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Yeah, that's crazy. I would not have thought of that, especially Timor-Leste, right?
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I mean, yeah, the main town, yeah, the main town, you speculate, yeah,
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no problem. But yeah, so we got, we were in some pretty remote areas and
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you still could get, most places you could get some internet, which
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was, which was amazing to us. So I was glad we could,
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because in case there was some issue we could I don't get
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a hold of somebody. I don't know who is going to come out there because they don't exactly have like
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emergency services. It's
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a beautiful country. I really enjoyed it. And I say, we're going to try to get some more. I'm
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going to try to follow up and do some more research there. We're going to work
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with Lowe and some of the other people I met there in the
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dive community and with the government and the university, try
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to develop a project to document the species that
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occur there. So that's, that's kind of looking like a really, really potential
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long term, interesting project. And we're already, we're already seeing some really
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interesting species that they've been catching out
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there. So I won't go into it here, but there's some really, there
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were some lost sharks we definitely stumbled across out there. And so there could be some
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really interesting. more things to come. So kind of stay tuned on that
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Well, let me let me ask you this, too, because you're in a number
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of different countries, a number of different cultures, and you've done this before. You've done this
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for quite some time now, like, you know, 30, 40 years of
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going to different countries, you know, meeting new
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people. Sometimes there's language barriers, sometimes
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there isn't. Especially now, we
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talk a lot about parachute
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science. A lot of people are concerned about
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that. Because back in the day when you were first starting off in
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science, and sometimes it even happens today, there are certain scientists and
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organizations who will go into a country. I'm just
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defining what parachute science is. They go into a country, get the data that
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they want, publish on it, work it out, publish on
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it, and not really give back to
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the people there. But you tend to work with the
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people when you go there. You interact with people, you have a lot of
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friends that still to this day, like in Taiwan, all
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over Africa, not just South Africa, but all over Africa where you've done
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workshops and things like that. When you go into a new country,
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like Timor-Leste, How do you approach the
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people who are taking you around, not only just the graduate students, but
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the local people who you met? What's the
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process there that you take that other people can learn from when
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they go into new countries so that they don't, you don't
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wanna disrespect anybody, you wanna make sure that you're
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thankful and just share that data
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A lot of it's just a lot of us come from networking and you know
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you just haven't over the years I just get to know people I network and if
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I don't know somebody directly I'll I'll talk to someone else in
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the case of this one with um actually for the whole trip it
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was all people I knew contacts and like and even the Timor-Leste which
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had never been explored I I did a paper about
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a year ago with uh with Lo Clausens who's with World
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Fish and she was based in Palau and then
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it was and it was kind of a little bit of a fluke It doesn't always happen this
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way, but she contacted me about identifying some sharks
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and rays they were seeing. And she mentioned she was in Timor-Leste.
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And then that led to, oh, what are you doing there? And she's, oh, I
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live here now and I'm doing some work. And so I was, so
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I started, we started communicating back and forth and then she hooked
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us up, hooked me up with some of the other people there to get by.
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Cause you know, World Fish is an NGO and there's a lot of countries like Timor.
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There's a lot of NGOs in there. There's a lot of aid. Programs
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in there and so like and so she was able to
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hook me up with some of the government people
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the head of their blue economy unit for example some of the people
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at the university there and So and so we just
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started corresponding and I said like, you know, hey, I could you know, we
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can do some workshop I can do a workshop there just a short at
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least an introductory thing on how to identify stuff We got it. We
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got buy-in from the dive community there So I
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had like I have a I got a fairly wide net cast
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there, but it was all because of this one individual, Lo, who I
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knew from a previous project I'd worked on. She basically
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connected me in there. So we had correspondence. It goes through
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sort of the get to know each other phase. And
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then so I went there and had a chance to go explore the whole island.
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There are a couple of Timor people
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who work for World Fish because they have local people working
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for them as well. And so they were kind of invaluable in the
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whole thing, really, because they know the terrain very
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well. They obviously speak the language. The language wasn't as
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big a barrier, because most people could speak some level of
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English there, and where they couldn't, these guys were great. Actually, Portuguese
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is the main language over there, so it's not even a...
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And there's Timorese, a local language as
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well. They've got a few languages, but English was able to get around. Yeah,
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so there was a couple of guys, Junior and Sam, who were
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on the whole journey with us. Another guy named Jerry, they're all
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local Timorese people, and they work for World Fish. And
383
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we spent some time going over things to identify them with.
384
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I gave them a copy of my field guide, the
385
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sharks of the world. And just show you know spend a
386
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little bit of time showed him what to do talk with the fishing community So
387
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it's just really networking talking to people and I you
388
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know I never go in there like I'm gonna like I never go in there's like I'm
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gonna crusade to do something I always take more of the Approach
390
00:24:33,941 --> 00:24:37,722
of you know, hey I can provide information You guys
391
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need to decide what you want to do with it Yeah, you know as far as with the
392
00:24:40,983 --> 00:24:44,685
government like I'm not in there telling like don't fin don't fish sharks this
393
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is I just You know, right, especially in Timor, where we don't know anything,
394
00:24:48,573 --> 00:24:51,875
we're developing like a list of species now, and we're seeing some really
395
00:24:51,955 --> 00:24:55,237
interesting species, we didn't even, we had no idea. And so like,
396
00:24:55,377 --> 00:24:58,878
all this information will collate. And then, again,
397
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I, you know, I've already been in touch, you know, met with the head
398
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of their Blue Economy Unit and stuff and, yeah, university people. So
399
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I'm just going to provide this information. I'll work with them, I'll train the local people
400
00:25:08,906 --> 00:25:12,087
with them. Hopefully we'll be able to get some additional funding so I can go
401
00:25:12,147 --> 00:25:15,389
back and do a more deeper dive. I mean, I only had
402
00:25:15,449 --> 00:25:18,890
really, it doesn't sound like a lot, but I had five full-on days,
403
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:23,092
five, six days really full-on just going through the place.
404
00:25:23,132 --> 00:25:26,173
I mean, look, I could cover the country in that time, and I
405
00:25:26,193 --> 00:25:29,414
went to all the main areas, made the contacts, and hopefully I'll
406
00:25:29,434 --> 00:25:32,916
lay the groundwork for some future work and go
407
00:25:32,976 --> 00:25:36,540
back and do some more training there. Hopefully,
408
00:25:36,580 --> 00:25:39,821
out of this whole thing, we'll be able to develop a database of species, what's
409
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being caught. And then, you know, I'm like, kind
410
00:25:43,141 --> 00:25:46,722
of done my part there. And, you know, hopefully, we'll get a few scientific papers
411
00:25:46,822 --> 00:25:50,023
out of it. And, you know, I'll collaborate with the local people there to write
412
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up some papers as they want. And then, kind
413
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of, here's the information. And hopefully, they'll, they can decide as,
414
00:26:00,550 --> 00:26:03,933
Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, I think that's it's a really interesting
415
00:26:03,993 --> 00:26:07,276
way How long did it take you to learn to do
416
00:26:07,397 --> 00:26:10,840
all this? you know what I mean, like, you know you sometimes you were traveling when
417
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you were young and and and you know, I would say not to
418
00:26:14,343 --> 00:26:17,506
be an insult but like naive of You know what the
419
00:26:17,606 --> 00:26:20,929
like what you know now right like you've gathered so much information and
420
00:26:20,970 --> 00:26:24,732
so much experience You know Like for
421
00:26:24,832 --> 00:26:27,973
some people who are listening to this who might want to do the same thing, they want
422
00:26:27,993 --> 00:26:31,193
to discover new species or they want to describe a new species, they might be doing it
423
00:26:31,474 --> 00:26:34,894
just as you have suggested in the past is like pick something that
424
00:26:34,914 --> 00:26:38,375
you don't know, we don't know much about and study that. Sometimes those
425
00:26:38,455 --> 00:26:41,896
are in countries we haven't really explored before. And
426
00:26:42,496 --> 00:26:46,176
so like how would you recommend and how did you sort
427
00:26:49,592 --> 00:26:53,055
The first thing is I kind of just got it. I mean, I
428
00:26:53,075 --> 00:26:56,497
learned a lot working like with my doing my master's degree
429
00:26:56,537 --> 00:26:59,620
here in California. Right. I just because I was working with people, I
430
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,823
kind of, you know, I just work with mainly the fishing community. Yeah. And
431
00:27:03,923 --> 00:27:07,226
so I just learned to like work with people like in the fishing
432
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community and like and it's a little different in different countries. But,
433
00:27:10,588 --> 00:27:13,891
you know, some of it translates very easily. And then after that, from
434
00:27:13,931 --> 00:27:18,082
there, I just got to know People,
435
00:27:18,162 --> 00:27:21,283
like, you know, I've mentioned this story, and I knew Leonard Coppagno, who
436
00:27:21,303 --> 00:27:24,483
was in San Francisco, and he took a job in South Africa. And that kind of led
437
00:27:24,503 --> 00:27:27,704
to my, really my next step in my career, was going
438
00:27:27,724 --> 00:27:30,865
to South Africa. And then just, I would just go
439
00:27:30,905 --> 00:27:34,785
to fishing communities around there, villages and stuff, and just talk
440
00:27:34,805 --> 00:27:37,906
to the people, and just kind of get to know them,
441
00:27:37,946 --> 00:27:41,227
and, you know, made friendships, you know, as I went along. And it was just
442
00:27:41,527 --> 00:27:44,698
literally, and most people, you kind of show up there, Especially if you're
443
00:27:44,718 --> 00:27:48,739
a foreigner, they kind of like you're you're sort of a novelty, like especially
444
00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:52,400
in areas where they haven't really seen too many foreigners. And, you know,
445
00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:55,661
like out and the kind of towards the
446
00:27:55,681 --> 00:27:59,822
end of the trip was out in the Western Indonesia, which
447
00:27:59,882 --> 00:28:03,083
is very, you know, I mean, they you go out, they see
448
00:28:03,123 --> 00:28:06,584
very few Westerners, you know, out there, very, very few, very,
449
00:28:06,944 --> 00:28:10,064
very few white people. I mean, you see any others or no other white people out there when I
450
00:28:10,104 --> 00:28:13,829
was there and I was working with Naya Simone. It's one of Pete's PhD
451
00:28:13,869 --> 00:28:17,271
students. And she's been on the podcast talking about wedge fish
452
00:28:17,311 --> 00:28:20,512
and stuff. And she was really the guide. She
453
00:28:20,552 --> 00:28:23,793
really helped make things happen throughout Indonesia. Because we started off
454
00:28:23,833 --> 00:28:28,034
in Bali. And I know Bali's a bit of a tourist
455
00:28:28,074 --> 00:28:33,096
destination. But I was not in the tourist parts of Bali. But
456
00:28:33,136 --> 00:28:36,377
we were in the fishing part where they still have fishing going on.
457
00:28:36,397 --> 00:28:40,479
And we found two spectacular sharks
458
00:28:41,403 --> 00:28:44,665
critically endangered species there was one we're kind of looking
459
00:28:44,705 --> 00:28:47,827
for and we spent some time talking to the fishermen and again this is
460
00:28:47,847 --> 00:28:51,029
where Naya was really you know she knows the terrain she knows the
461
00:28:51,069 --> 00:28:54,150
people we're talking with people and everything we kept getting is
462
00:28:54,311 --> 00:28:57,432
uh we haven't seen these things for years and these were species well one
463
00:28:57,452 --> 00:29:01,135
of them we thought was you know maybe you know on the serious decline
464
00:29:01,155 --> 00:29:04,557
well it's critically endangered and the last day we're there
465
00:29:04,577 --> 00:29:08,199
it was it was a this is how it happens sometimes
466
00:29:08,699 --> 00:29:12,113
you know one of the team members, Julia
467
00:29:12,133 --> 00:29:15,234
Constance, carrying some sharks. And we go,
468
00:29:15,274 --> 00:29:19,377
oh, let's go check those out. Went over to where they brought the sharks. And
469
00:29:19,397 --> 00:29:22,738
the next thing we see are all these other sharks that we're looking for. And
470
00:29:22,778 --> 00:29:25,860
we're like, oh, my God. And then it turned out the one we're looking for, we
471
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,402
found. But it turned out there was a second one there that
472
00:29:30,062 --> 00:29:33,244
we didn't, that now this is even rarer than the other
473
00:29:33,304 --> 00:29:37,826
one we're looking for. So we kind of got a twofer. So that
474
00:29:37,887 --> 00:29:41,072
stuff keeps me going. I mean, I've been doing this for years. I
475
00:29:41,092 --> 00:29:44,334
get so pumped up with that. But then the thing is, the thing
476
00:29:44,374 --> 00:29:47,555
just disappeared. They took it and they're taking it away. And so
477
00:29:47,575 --> 00:29:51,037
I had to follow them, and Naya followed too, because literally,
478
00:29:51,517 --> 00:29:54,979
and this is kind of the thing is, 30 seconds either way, we'd
479
00:29:54,999 --> 00:29:58,241
have missed them. Either too soon, too late, we'd have missed the whole
480
00:29:58,281 --> 00:30:02,143
thing. And so we ended up finding two species that haven't
481
00:30:02,163 --> 00:30:05,304
been seen for years. And so now we've been able to
482
00:30:05,344 --> 00:30:08,986
document them. And we talked to the fishermen. We know where they caught them, where
483
00:30:09,006 --> 00:30:12,285
they are. We got some more information. talking more
484
00:30:12,325 --> 00:30:16,206
about that later on and some stuff we're doing with this
485
00:30:16,286 --> 00:30:21,307
project. But anyway, that was Bali. And then we went on to Jakarta. After
486
00:30:21,347 --> 00:30:25,687
that, I met with another colleague of mine who I've known for years, Fahmi,
487
00:30:27,068 --> 00:30:30,768
who has his doctorate. He's worked for the Indonesian Fisheries Service
488
00:30:32,529 --> 00:30:36,149
Agency. And so we spent time going
489
00:30:36,169 --> 00:30:39,310
through his collection. He's got a phenomenal collection. And I found a
490
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:42,595
few species that he's recently collected that
491
00:30:42,635 --> 00:30:46,056
well he knew what they were he he showed me what they were and i was like oh man we haven't seen
492
00:30:46,096 --> 00:30:49,277
these in years and and and then and
493
00:30:49,437 --> 00:30:52,878
interestingly pulled out a few deep sea sharks that um
494
00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:56,760
he was trying he hadn't been able to identify yet and a couple of them
495
00:30:56,780 --> 00:31:00,141
turned out to be range extensions like big range extensions and
496
00:31:00,561 --> 00:31:03,690
one of them looks like it's probably a new species So that was kind
497
00:31:05,371 --> 00:31:09,194
Oh yeah. Just to be able to find it and be like, yeah, I think that's new. I haven't seen that one before,
498
00:31:09,714 --> 00:31:12,856
Yeah, I know. And so we kind of got the
499
00:31:12,896 --> 00:31:16,058
whole, then from there after Jakarta, and well, let me back up a bit. In
500
00:31:16,098 --> 00:31:19,300
Jakarta, one of the things we went there for was
501
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,043
to look for where had been the Java stingray, stingray.
502
00:31:23,343 --> 00:31:26,865
Right. And that was extinct, or there was a published paper
503
00:31:27,766 --> 00:31:30,908
Yeah, Julia, who was on the show at the beginning of the year
504
00:31:30,948 --> 00:31:34,291
in January, and Pete Kine, And I published a
505
00:31:34,332 --> 00:31:37,934
paper, I have a paper, actually it's in press now,
506
00:31:38,794 --> 00:31:42,376
declaring the species extinct. And it's the first time you've had a marine. Big news around.
507
00:31:42,456 --> 00:31:45,538
It's huge, huge news. And so we went out and
508
00:31:45,558 --> 00:31:48,740
wanted to go see like, why is this thing probably gone? And because it
509
00:31:48,780 --> 00:31:51,922
was, so we went to the location in Jakarta where this thing apparently had
510
00:31:51,942 --> 00:31:55,084
been landed. You know, it was landed in 1862. So we're doing
511
00:31:55,104 --> 00:31:59,006
the best we can to identify it. But
512
00:31:59,046 --> 00:32:02,881
we went out, we did a lot of looking around and Talking with Julia and
513
00:32:03,021 --> 00:32:06,563
interviewing her and Naya as well, pretty much the
514
00:32:06,623 --> 00:32:09,784
habitat for this species was pretty much probably wiped out
515
00:32:09,824 --> 00:32:13,766
by 1900 once Jakarta started to build because they
516
00:32:13,786 --> 00:32:17,757
did a lot of it as land reclamation which took out a lot of the mangroves. Right.
517
00:32:17,937 --> 00:32:21,420
And so pretty much this species. I'm
518
00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:25,443
after being where I was and looking there. Yeah, it's probably gone.
519
00:32:25,983 --> 00:32:29,105
It's we went out, we did stood out, went out, do those surveys out on
520
00:32:29,125 --> 00:32:32,408
the boat there in the Java Sea. But it's it's
521
00:32:32,448 --> 00:32:35,790
habitats gone. And so she expects this
522
00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:39,453
thing's probably been extinct for over 100 years now. And
523
00:32:39,473 --> 00:32:42,895
again, this that this highlights what
524
00:32:42,935 --> 00:32:46,457
I do, because this is a shark that there's nobody's
525
00:32:46,518 --> 00:32:50,216
thought about. And yet here it is gone extinct and almost
526
00:32:50,977 --> 00:32:55,519
until we raised some awareness of this and Julia did this paper, nobody
527
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:59,541
even knew this thing. And, and so kind of what I do is
528
00:32:59,621 --> 00:33:03,182
to try to find these things before they go. And I mentioned
529
00:33:03,242 --> 00:33:06,604
a couple of sharks we found in Bali. Okay. Even though they were, they'd
530
00:33:06,624 --> 00:33:09,825
been caught by fishermen and they were dead. We know like where to go look for
531
00:33:09,865 --> 00:33:13,287
these things now. So we could go back with bruvs or whatever to find live
532
00:33:13,347 --> 00:33:16,920
ones, but we know where to go look now. And then, of course, I
533
00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:20,422
had a great time. I've known Fahmi for a long time. We've described new species
534
00:33:20,462 --> 00:33:23,603
together. He's just a wonderful guy. I keep coming back
535
00:33:23,623 --> 00:33:26,944
to this theme you asked about how I know what to do when I go there. I've
536
00:33:26,984 --> 00:33:30,265
just learned over the years, Andrew. And it's just getting to know people.
537
00:33:32,826 --> 00:33:36,767
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I ran identification training
538
00:33:36,807 --> 00:33:40,349
workshops 12 years ago that Fahmi
539
00:33:40,369 --> 00:33:43,670
was at. And we've known each other before
540
00:33:43,710 --> 00:33:46,818
that. So I've had opportunities to meet these people and get to
541
00:33:46,858 --> 00:33:50,101
know them. It's building relationships with them and that
542
00:33:50,141 --> 00:33:53,284
takes time and it takes, you know, I'm not showing up there like, okay, I
543
00:33:53,304 --> 00:33:56,586
need to get this, this, this, and this. You know, I go out there, I have tea, I
544
00:33:56,626 --> 00:33:59,969
have coffee, have lunch. You build a relationship. You build
545
00:34:00,009 --> 00:34:03,092
relationships. And so these people, cause I
546
00:34:03,132 --> 00:34:06,315
may not see these guys for years, but they'll contact me when they got something new.
547
00:34:07,175 --> 00:34:10,367
Yep. So, yeah. So anyway, so after Jakarta, which, I
548
00:34:10,387 --> 00:34:13,588
have to say, of everywhere I went, I don't need to go to Jakarta again if I don't
549
00:34:13,648 --> 00:34:17,369
have to. But everywhere else was lovely. We
550
00:34:17,389 --> 00:34:22,630
went out to Rio Islands, which was fairly remote. And
551
00:34:22,690 --> 00:34:25,890
I was running some training identification workshops for a lot
552
00:34:25,910 --> 00:34:29,351
of the Indonesian CITES inspectors were out there. So
553
00:34:29,371 --> 00:34:32,652
that was a great chance to make a whole range of new
554
00:34:32,992 --> 00:34:36,573
contacts, you know, having whatever 50, 60 people
555
00:34:36,613 --> 00:34:39,917
in the room. Going over and it was like a two three
556
00:34:39,977 --> 00:34:43,639
day Thing where I went through and we lectured and I was most
557
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:47,242
of us understood English, but Naya was she also spoke But
558
00:34:47,282 --> 00:34:50,604
she was translating into Indonesian for us and because I don't that's
559
00:34:50,624 --> 00:34:54,026
the thing too is I don't speak these languages I have no problem going
560
00:34:54,066 --> 00:34:57,428
in there. I got somebody that knows how to Interpret that
561
00:34:57,468 --> 00:35:00,570
helps that helps a lot So I was able to go out there and
562
00:35:00,610 --> 00:35:03,872
do you know do some of that's do that do this training
563
00:35:03,892 --> 00:35:07,310
workshop? we went out to the a couple of the fish markets
564
00:35:07,350 --> 00:35:11,992
there, the traders. Found a number, oh man, somewhere
565
00:35:12,452 --> 00:35:16,733
probably about 10 species that are critically endangered at
566
00:35:17,114 --> 00:35:21,095
this market, including a couple that were really rare to find. And
567
00:35:21,175 --> 00:35:24,596
so that's going to be a whole other thing we did. But it was great because here
568
00:35:24,636 --> 00:35:28,918
I'm actually doing what I like to do. I'm showing, training people Not
569
00:35:28,938 --> 00:35:32,421
that these people don't already know a lot already because they're societies inspectors but
570
00:35:32,461 --> 00:35:35,543
I'm giving a little bit of nuance that I think I like to feel is kind of
571
00:35:35,583 --> 00:35:38,786
helping them out and They're very grateful for it.
572
00:35:38,846 --> 00:35:42,449
And now I got a whole bunch of other contacts all spread out through Indonesia
573
00:35:43,310 --> 00:35:46,613
to work with and we also went out to some of the islands there where Naya
574
00:35:46,653 --> 00:35:49,776
is doing some of her work and Because a big thing, you
575
00:35:49,796 --> 00:35:52,978
know, she's looking for the wedge clownfish, which she
576
00:35:53,158 --> 00:35:56,430
showed me some that she'd found last year And this
577
00:35:56,450 --> 00:36:00,012
is a species that we thought, another species we thought was extinct
578
00:36:00,113 --> 00:36:03,275
because it hadn't been seen for years. And now we have a few records of
579
00:36:03,315 --> 00:36:06,737
this thing within the last two, three years now. And
580
00:36:07,258 --> 00:36:10,781
so that's, that was really cool. But, and there's some, you know,
581
00:36:10,981 --> 00:36:14,163
fascinating being out in these villages, because let's say
582
00:36:14,203 --> 00:36:18,046
most of them have never seen a Westerner or met a Westerner before. And
583
00:36:18,086 --> 00:36:21,308
so it's really kind of cool for me interacting with them and kind of things that make
584
00:36:21,509 --> 00:36:24,667
kind of really makes you feel kind of warm inside is like,
585
00:36:24,687 --> 00:36:27,889
you know, these people don't have like a lot to begin with, but they're
586
00:36:27,929 --> 00:36:31,050
so graceful, like to have a chance to
587
00:36:31,070 --> 00:36:34,492
meet somebody, you know, from like the United States. And
588
00:36:34,532 --> 00:36:37,973
that, you know, they're offering me like, you know, give me a little Coke is a sort
589
00:36:37,993 --> 00:36:41,134
of a, you know, you know, thanks for coming by. And I'm like, Oh, no, you don't have to do
590
00:36:43,195 --> 00:36:47,037
Coke. No, Coke. No. C-O-K-E. Coke. Coca-Cola.
591
00:36:47,853 --> 00:36:53,075
Oh, okay. Yeah. I was worried it was a different type of Coke. Coca-Cola.
592
00:36:59,138 --> 00:37:02,660
Get your mind out of the gutter. I just wanted to confirm just
593
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,021
to make sure people think you're not going on these crazy things.
594
00:37:10,074 --> 00:37:13,376
Just wanted to be sure, just try to do my duties as
595
00:37:14,997 --> 00:37:18,458
But it's the kind of thing that's almost more
596
00:37:18,538 --> 00:37:22,540
rewarding to me personally, just the kindness of these people and
597
00:37:22,580 --> 00:37:26,362
like their kids come in there and they come from school. I had some pictures
598
00:37:26,823 --> 00:37:30,204
on social media and it was just great.
599
00:37:34,727 --> 00:37:38,330
Yeah, and if you saw some of the pictures I post, it's like it's You
600
00:37:38,350 --> 00:37:41,592
talk about some of the, I talked about crocodiles and diseases, like just
601
00:37:41,632 --> 00:37:45,555
trying to navigate around, like look at the little bridge they put in there to
602
00:37:45,595 --> 00:37:49,417
get out to the docks. I think I got some pictures posted on Instagram. Uh,
603
00:37:49,477 --> 00:37:53,360
you know, you want to be really freaking careful cause you could fall
604
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,822
and hurt yourself really badly out there and stuff. And,
605
00:37:59,304 --> 00:38:02,806
I mean, I think I think that's that's really good. Like when you get to make
606
00:38:02,846 --> 00:38:06,008
those connections, it's part of the process, right? It's part
607
00:38:06,028 --> 00:38:09,251
of the trips. It's not just finding these sharks that haven't been found
608
00:38:09,291 --> 00:38:12,913
in a while. It's it's meeting new people. It's understanding different
609
00:38:12,953 --> 00:38:16,075
cultures, being a part of like being exposed to
610
00:38:16,115 --> 00:38:19,517
those different cultures. And I think that's that's a really cool
611
00:38:19,577 --> 00:38:23,740
part about being a scientist, especially when you're traveling internationally, is
612
00:38:23,820 --> 00:38:27,322
to have that openness and have that You
613
00:38:27,422 --> 00:38:30,783
know urge to be able to learn from
614
00:38:30,824 --> 00:38:34,085
different people and connect with different people all over the world Yeah, I think a thing is
615
00:38:34,485 --> 00:38:37,746
It's like it's been I've
616
00:38:37,766 --> 00:38:41,288
got an explorer heart. I like to explore and I like yeah, and
617
00:38:41,308 --> 00:38:44,489
I like to not just go in there Just like okay. I'm gonna find
618
00:38:44,529 --> 00:38:47,970
the shark. Okay. I mean, that's a cool thing to do But like just the
619
00:38:48,010 --> 00:38:51,231
connections the people I meet those are the memories I
620
00:38:51,251 --> 00:38:54,925
probably take away more than anything with some of those
621
00:38:54,965 --> 00:38:58,168
things. And those are the most rewarding things. Feeling like I'm
622
00:38:58,208 --> 00:39:01,991
able to, especially at this point, too, in my career where I'm working
623
00:39:02,011 --> 00:39:05,193
with some really dynamic young grad students and I'm able to pass along a
624
00:39:05,233 --> 00:39:08,636
lot of my knowledge and experience to them. And they're
625
00:39:08,656 --> 00:39:12,159
very grateful. I mean, I had three of Pete's grad
626
00:39:12,199 --> 00:39:15,361
students for basically, I don't want to say held
627
00:39:15,381 --> 00:39:18,644
hostage for like three and a half weeks as we were traveling around
628
00:39:18,684 --> 00:39:21,921
the place, but I think they they didn't have a chance to
629
00:39:21,981 --> 00:39:25,142
work with me, you know, going around the place, I think was very, it
630
00:39:25,963 --> 00:39:29,184
was good. They really enjoyed it. They enjoyed that, having that connection, that
631
00:39:29,224 --> 00:39:32,826
time together and everything. And, um, so, so
632
00:39:32,846 --> 00:39:35,987
yeah, that's, that's really the big reward to me is just, uh, the people to
633
00:39:36,027 --> 00:39:39,309
work with and the people I meet and, uh, be able to pass along
634
00:39:39,349 --> 00:39:42,651
that knowledge. So yeah, it was, it was a, it was a wonderful trip.
635
00:39:42,731 --> 00:39:45,912
And, uh, we're, as, as you mentioned, and I mentioned, we, we
636
00:39:45,972 --> 00:39:50,632
documented this thing as a part of the save our seas, uh, Project
637
00:39:50,733 --> 00:39:53,915
and we'll be put we'll be having some videos coming up in the next
638
00:39:53,955 --> 00:39:57,418
few months some little video stories about the journeys the
639
00:39:57,458 --> 00:40:01,501
difference different things about it talking about some of the Hardships
640
00:40:01,561 --> 00:40:04,984
and some of the rewards of doing the whole of doing the whole project And
641
00:40:05,504 --> 00:40:08,807
you know, I just want to again just give a big shout out Thanks
642
00:40:08,847 --> 00:40:12,830
to save our seas because they're just there's just not a lot of organizations
643
00:40:13,351 --> 00:40:17,814
that will fund this type of type of work that I do and
644
00:40:18,034 --> 00:40:21,174
You know and again One thing you mentioned too about knowledge is
645
00:40:21,234 --> 00:40:24,696
like, you gotta know a lot of the species and I really worked my
646
00:40:24,736 --> 00:40:27,978
whole life trying to learn all the different species I can as best I can, it's a
647
00:40:32,001 --> 00:40:36,423
That's awesome. A couple more questions before we end this. The
648
00:40:36,543 --> 00:40:40,246
first is, the way
649
00:40:40,286 --> 00:40:43,868
you describe when you find a new species, it happens so quickly,
650
00:40:44,328 --> 00:40:48,088
right? And a lot of times, unexpectedly, on the trip. You
651
00:40:48,468 --> 00:40:51,970
know why you're out there and you want to discover something, but you've already mentioned
652
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:55,252
a couple times where Fisher's going by and he's got something and
653
00:40:55,272 --> 00:40:58,514
you're like, well, what is that? Hold on a second, can I take a look at that? All
654
00:40:58,534 --> 00:41:01,836
of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, I don't think I've ever seen
655
00:41:01,876 --> 00:41:05,178
this before. I don't think anybody's ever seen, your colleagues are there, the grad students
656
00:41:05,198 --> 00:41:08,420
are like, wow, what is this? What's the feeling that
657
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,942
goes through your body? What are the emotions that you feel when
658
00:41:12,082 --> 00:41:15,403
all of a sudden you're on the verge, I think this is something that's
659
00:41:16,973 --> 00:41:20,316
it's kind of a mix between this absolute adrenaline rush
660
00:41:21,416 --> 00:41:24,659
and Christmas. Okay, waking up
661
00:41:25,059 --> 00:41:28,241
waking up Christmas morning is a five year old. And
662
00:41:28,281 --> 00:41:32,344
just, you know, what Santa leave me? Yeah. And,
663
00:41:32,805 --> 00:41:36,047
and then just having this, like on this, like on these trips here, it's
664
00:41:36,067 --> 00:41:39,309
like, it's like a, it's like a, it's a total
665
00:41:39,369 --> 00:41:42,652
adrenaline. It's just you're just every day, just pumped up
666
00:41:43,352 --> 00:41:46,480
to go out there. And I mean, it's kind of One of
667
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,742
the comments, uh, you know, some of the students made is like, they
668
00:41:49,762 --> 00:41:52,965
were just, yeah, they found it. They thought it
669
00:41:52,985 --> 00:41:56,387
was a little bit inspiring that every day we had long, hard days
670
00:41:56,447 --> 00:41:59,510
and like every day, I'm just ready to go. Like, let's do this, man. We're going to
671
00:41:59,550 --> 00:42:02,772
go do this. And they found like, that was, they thought that was
672
00:42:02,832 --> 00:42:06,635
pretty cool considering I'm, I'm the age of most of their parents running
673
00:42:06,695 --> 00:42:09,877
around with them. And, uh, and I'm just like every day, I'm like, let's go,
674
00:42:09,997 --> 00:42:13,260
let's do this, man. You know, I was like, cause I I'll sleep in the plane when we head
675
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:16,824
home and I've been catching up on some rest since I've
676
00:42:16,844 --> 00:42:20,788
been home. But yeah, if you can just imagine this overwhelming
677
00:42:20,828 --> 00:42:24,211
adrenaline rush combined with being a five-year-old on
678
00:42:24,251 --> 00:42:28,492
Christmas morning. That's the best way to describe it.
679
00:42:31,356 --> 00:42:34,560
And speaking of which, not calling you old,
680
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,964
but you're not as young as you were in your 20s, doing a
681
00:42:38,024 --> 00:42:41,429
trip like this for a month where every day you're going
682
00:42:41,609 --> 00:42:45,031
out, You know traveling through some
683
00:42:45,151 --> 00:42:48,371
pretty gnarly terrain Look
684
00:42:48,411 --> 00:42:52,933
at me being old and trying to use gnarly as a word describe but
685
00:42:53,953 --> 00:42:57,414
But you know like it takes a lot on the body for any anybody
686
00:42:57,454 --> 00:43:01,475
by any age you've been doing this for quite a long time But
687
00:43:01,515 --> 00:43:04,755
like going out for like a month and doing this straight, you know You're
688
00:43:04,775 --> 00:43:07,916
always meeting new people talking new people going over just
689
00:43:07,956 --> 00:43:11,117
different terrain if there's a lot to experience in
690
00:43:11,177 --> 00:43:14,699
one of those trips How do you get through
691
00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:19,523
You know at this point in your career bring young enthusiastic students
692
00:43:19,563 --> 00:43:22,766
with you And try and keep up is that
693
00:43:22,806 --> 00:43:26,109
it well, I honestly I I keep
694
00:43:26,149 --> 00:43:30,152
a pretty regimented Workout
695
00:43:30,813 --> 00:43:34,235
and sort of a health care just take care of myself in general in
696
00:43:34,295 --> 00:43:37,715
general and then I keep a pretty I work out pretty,
697
00:43:37,975 --> 00:43:41,877
pretty good for my age and I won't mention it specifically, but
698
00:43:41,937 --> 00:43:45,218
it's north of 60, let's say. And, uh, and so, but I
699
00:43:45,298 --> 00:43:49,340
39, we'll just go with an even that perfect, even maybe 40, maybe
700
00:43:49,660 --> 00:43:52,902
39 is good. Uh, no, but I, I just, it's, it's really, it's, it's
701
00:43:53,202 --> 00:43:56,963
a lot of it. A lot of it is mental. You got to have a positive attitude.
702
00:43:57,123 --> 00:44:01,085
That's why I say like, it's having this overwhelming adrenaline rush and,
703
00:44:01,385 --> 00:44:04,486
and like a kid at Christmas that, that helps you got to have
704
00:44:04,506 --> 00:44:07,744
the right mental attitude. And then I say, I just keep trying
705
00:44:07,764 --> 00:44:11,326
to keep my body in shape as best I can, you know, and
706
00:44:11,386 --> 00:44:14,847
just try to work out and just eat right. And
707
00:44:15,907 --> 00:44:19,509
so like I can, you know, my goal is always to keep up with the kids. And
708
00:44:20,029 --> 00:44:23,190
so, you know, and so if I can just, so
709
00:44:23,210 --> 00:44:26,311
that's my goal and I don't, I'm just going to keep doing it as
710
00:44:26,351 --> 00:44:29,752
long as my body holds up and I can do it. You know, my
711
00:44:29,772 --> 00:44:33,393
dad's 93 and, you know, he's still climbing
712
00:44:33,433 --> 00:44:36,751
around on the roof and doing stuff. It makes me more nervous
713
00:44:36,791 --> 00:44:39,915
than him, so if I can be 93 and
714
00:44:40,115 --> 00:44:43,619
doing that, you know, at my age now, I can still
715
00:44:43,659 --> 00:44:47,023
keep going and I'm just gonna keep going until I
716
00:44:47,063 --> 00:44:50,407
can't, you know? It's just, yeah. So that's all
717
00:44:52,779 --> 00:44:56,280
So quite the crazy
718
00:44:56,340 --> 00:44:59,620
trip, amazing trip, all the words you can
719
00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:03,401
use to describe it, the ups and downs and
720
00:45:03,921 --> 00:45:07,142
very, very interesting. Just to let everybody know, we're going
721
00:45:07,182 --> 00:45:10,362
to be able to show some more content on
722
00:45:10,382 --> 00:45:13,703
that visually. We'll have some videos out and a number of different
723
00:45:13,723 --> 00:45:16,884
episodes, not only the trip that you just went on, but the trip that you went on
724
00:45:16,924 --> 00:45:21,107
last year. We have some videos coming out. very, very shortly. And
725
00:45:21,167 --> 00:45:24,871
so keep an eye out on this podcast. We'll announce when they're
726
00:45:24,911 --> 00:45:28,074
published. We'll put up links. And so you
727
00:45:28,114 --> 00:45:31,738
can actually see what Dave experiences when
728
00:45:32,419 --> 00:45:35,622
you're on these trips. And I think it's really important for
729
00:45:35,662 --> 00:45:39,046
people to visualize the different fish markets, what it looks like, how
730
00:45:39,086 --> 00:45:42,309
you interact with people. Even some of the things you
731
00:45:42,329 --> 00:45:45,590
probably like, you may not like to see, you know, as in dead sharks or dead flat
732
00:45:45,610 --> 00:45:48,791
sharks and things. Yeah. But then you, you have to, you know, you have to
733
00:45:48,831 --> 00:45:51,972
deal with it and, and sometimes, you know, you may discover a new
734
00:45:52,012 --> 00:45:55,193
species just, just from those piles of dead sharks that
735
00:45:55,213 --> 00:45:58,395
you see. And it's, it's, it's interesting, definitely as
736
00:45:58,435 --> 00:46:01,996
a scientist and, and as you said, like, you know, a bit of an explorer.
737
00:46:03,056 --> 00:46:06,338
And so love to see that so I can't wait till we get those
738
00:46:06,398 --> 00:46:09,780
out for everybody Dave if people want to
739
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,421
you know find out you know how to Follow you you've been putting up
740
00:46:13,801 --> 00:46:17,023
a lot of cool things on Instagram lately as you normally do but about
741
00:46:17,043 --> 00:46:20,305
the trip So people want to find out how to do that
742
00:46:20,405 --> 00:46:23,986
how to follow you how would they do so Instagram's best just
743
00:46:26,407 --> 00:46:30,409
Also, you find Lost Sharks on Facebook. I
744
00:46:30,469 --> 00:46:33,790
do post on X occasionally, but mostly Instagram, Facebook, but you
745
00:46:33,810 --> 00:46:37,452
can find Lost Shark, Lost Shark Guy on, on
746
00:46:37,592 --> 00:46:40,633
X. And then also I post on LinkedIn. So any of
747
00:46:40,673 --> 00:46:44,554
the, any of the major platforms, but I would suggest go to Instagram
748
00:46:47,171 --> 00:46:51,513
Perfect. Dave, thank you so much for sharing this and
749
00:46:51,553 --> 00:46:55,535
going on these trips and being able to discover more sharks. And we thank your
750
00:46:55,615 --> 00:46:59,937
colleagues, the graduate students that went out with you, Pete Kine, everybody
751
00:47:01,057 --> 00:47:04,319
that was out on the trip with you. And I can't wait to
752
00:47:04,359 --> 00:47:08,300
hear more about it. I've already heard a lot about it, and it's always interesting,
753
00:47:08,420 --> 00:47:11,981
and I can't wait for everybody else to get to see what
754
00:47:12,021 --> 00:47:15,902
you've been able to see over the last couple of years. Just a piece of
755
00:47:15,942 --> 00:47:19,263
your career, but something that's absolutely remarkable. So
756
00:47:25,405 --> 00:47:29,326
Absolutely. How about next episode? You could co-host. How about that? Perfect. Perfect.
757
00:47:29,347 --> 00:47:32,568
I'll co-host with you. Wonderful. Thanks a lot, Dave. We'll talk to
