From Peru to Australia: Adriana Gonzalez-Pestana’s Journey in Shark Conservation

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Welcome back to another

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wonderful episode here

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on the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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On today's episode, we

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are following the career

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of Adriana Gonzalez-Pestana,

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who is talking about her

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life moving around from Peru

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and now into Australia,

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going and doing her PhD,

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talking about what she has done in Peru,

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how she was one of the

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first shark biologists there

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and be able to do a lot of stuff there,

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come out with a book for children,

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be able to talk about conservation,

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and then move into a PhD in Australia.

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We talk about everything in that,

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and it's gonna be exciting.

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So let's hear it, let's start the show.

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Hey everybody, welcome back

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to another exciting episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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I'm your co-host, Andrew Lewin,

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here with my co-host, Dr. David Ebert.

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David, are you ready to talk about,

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I know this is one of

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the people that you mentor,

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and this is, so this is a special episode

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to hear about her

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career, really just beginning.

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How excited are you?

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I'm really excited, Andrew.

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I mean, she's really one of

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the rising stars in the field,

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and I think, and she's getting around,

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really working in different areas,

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and she talks about, she

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just pursuing her passion.

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She went and did a lot of,

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she really exploring the

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whole shark world in Peru.

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She didn't really have any

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guide or mentor initially

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when she started out, and

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now she's gone on to Australia.

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She will talk about some

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of the different countries

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she's been involved with,

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some of the important shark

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and ray areas with the IUCN.

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She's just an amazing person,

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and you look at all of her

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accomplishments that she's had.

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She's always got a

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good publication record.

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She just did her first book.

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She's very involved with the communities.

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It's just a fascinating person.

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I really just can't say enough good

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things about Adriana.

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She's just really one of these rock stars

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really in the field.

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She's just really out there doing stuff.

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100%.

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And yeah, she's extremely accomplished,

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and I'm really, really

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happy to have her as a friend,

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and I'm really been able to mentor her

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and hopefully pass along a lot of

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knowledge and stuff to her

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as she gets really gets

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her career up and going.

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And so I really hope

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people enjoy this episode.

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She's yeah, she just

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wanted we've had a number

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of these really young up and coming

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people on the podcast,

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and I'm hoping that in the future

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they'll come back 10, 20 years from now

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and listen to them again

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and see where they are.

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Absolutely.

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So yeah, so I'm really

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looking forward to this

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and this interview today.

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That's going to be a great time.

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Enjoy this interview with

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Adriana Gonzalez-Pustana,

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talking about her

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career in shark science.

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Enjoy it and we'll talk to you after.

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Hey Adriana, welcome back

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to the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about sharks?

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Yes, I'm super excited to be here again.

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I love it.

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Love it.

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We want to welcome

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everybody to the another episode

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of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

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We have a real rising

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star in the shark world

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with an absolutely awesome guest.

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We have Adriana Gonzalez-Pustana,

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who's currently working on her PhD at

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Charles Darwin University.

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Adriana is a coastal marine

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ecologist and conservation

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who was born and raised in Lima, Peru.

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And our graduate and

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undergraduate research projects

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were on the trophy ecology,

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nursery and habitat suitability

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of juvenile smooth

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hammerhead sharks off northern Peru.

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For the past decade,

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she's been involved in the conservation

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of endangered sharks

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and race species

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through education or research.

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And she's published already

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30 scientific publications.

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And recently she just

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published her first book,

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which we'll talk about today.

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She's involved as a

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regional scientific coordinator

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in the global project for

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the shark specialist group,

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the IUCN, important

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sharks and raised areas, ISRA.

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So conservation is really where a lot of

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her focus is these days.

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Adriana is also an adjunct professor

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at the university's scientific dell Sur,

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where she teaches

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future marine biologists.

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Her PhD research proposal

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focuses on understanding

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how citizen science can be used in the

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identification and

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monitoring of critical shark habitat

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in the western Pacific.

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She's formerly an expeditionary on an

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Antarctic survey crew.

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And she was recognized nationally as an

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outstanding young conservationist.

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And she's received many grants through

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her work to support her

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research and her education.

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She uses outdoor science-based activities

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and storytelling to

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promote environmental identity

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and children from coastal communities.

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She recently published a children's book,

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as I mentioned, we'll talk about today,

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that connects children specifically from

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fishing communities

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with the marine ecosystem.

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She's a passionate diver

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and nature photographer.

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And she was actually on episode 12 back

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in December of 2021.

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We had a series from the global wedge

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fishing guitarfish symposium.

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And she subsequently published a paper

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from that symposium.

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And she's also one of the featured early

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career researchers in

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the new documentary series,

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"Searching for Lost Sharks, Extincter

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Alive," which is now on YouTube.

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And we will be talking about that.

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As I mentioned, she's currently a PhD

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student at Charles Darwin University.

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But before that, she did her bachelor's

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of science at the

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University of Scientifica del Sur

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and a master's of science

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at the James Cook University.

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And with that,

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Adriana, welcome to the show.

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Thank you.

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I'm super excited to be here.

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Thank you for that presentation.

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Adriana has been a journey working with

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sharks and rays in the last decade or so.

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And I'm very excited to

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share that with everyone here.

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And thank you very much

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for having me here as well.

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Great. Well, as we as we ask all of our guests,

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Adriana, how did you get interested in

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the marine environment

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and in sharks and rays?

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It was a long journey for me.

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It didn't happen from one day to the

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other, but I always have a very strong

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connection with the ocean.

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I live in Lima. So Lima is a huge desert.

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There's not much nature on

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land, a live nature at least.

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And so I always have this great

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connection with the ocean.

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We spend the holidays on beautiful beach

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town called Toto Rita, where I fell in

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love with the ocean since I was like

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five, six years old.

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Then I have read a lot that there's a

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trip at a critical point in everyone's

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life between six and twelve years old.

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If you're exposed to nature in positive

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ways, regularly without any adult

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supervision, it's like ninety nine

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percent of you're going to

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fall in love with the ocean.

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I think that's the key for

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conservation on the long term.

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So I was exposed to those moments,

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special moments with nature.

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I was like those children that were by

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themselves with their friends just like

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climbing rocks, jumping into the ocean.

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I don't know how I ever get and nothing

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happened to me because

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I was exposing myself.

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You know, like all

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risk and all adventure.

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And that was key for me to feel like this

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strong spirituality.

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I would say that it was

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a strong connection more.

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It was spiritual for sure.

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It was that.

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And I felt very I felt like I was

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belonging to this perfect world where I

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was completely accepted by nature.

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And I was in awe all the

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time, you know, inspired by it.

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So I think that was the

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main thing that even today.

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And that's why I want to get back when I

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do work with fishery communities to bring

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them back to nature.

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And I think that's the

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key for conservation.

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The children have that experience

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regularly when they're growing up.

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And so, yeah, that was how I

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fell in love with the ocean.

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As I say, when I finished high school,

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there was no marine biology career.

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I was this close to go to study overseas.

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My dad was very supportive.

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And I did start engineering forestry at

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that time because that was the closest I

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could get to nature.

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I didn't have anyone to look for a

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submarine biologist in Peru.

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And at that time I

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didn't know like Sylvia Earl.

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There was not that many.

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I couldn't see that much examples of

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people working in marine biology,

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especially in Peru,

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because there was no that career.

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And when I was this close to go study to

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Costa Rica, I was very excited.

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They opened for the first

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time that career in Peru.

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So my dad was like, you're staying.

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And I was like, you

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want to go to Costa Rica?

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I was disappointed, you know, because the

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vehicle, you know, is like this beautiful

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country with a lot of nature.

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But then I'm super glad that things

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turned that way because it's

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when it was a huge opportunity.

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You know, in every place

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where nothing is it's done.

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01:08:34,291 --> 01:08:35,416
And they always talk

285
01:08:35,416 --> 01:08:36,916
about these unknown track.

286
01:08:37,583 --> 01:08:39,000
There's so much space for

287
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:40,750
discovery, for exploration.

288
01:08:41,666 --> 01:08:43,750
And then and then, of course, to have

289
01:08:43,750 --> 01:08:46,208
this purpose for my country that has that

290
01:08:46,208 --> 01:08:47,708
they have very limited information.

291
01:08:49,041 --> 01:08:51,958
And yeah, so that's why I finished

292
01:08:51,958 --> 01:08:53,250
starting marine biology.

293
01:08:54,500 --> 01:08:56,000
And I was like 24

294
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:57,291
when I started a career.

295
01:08:57,500 --> 01:09:00,083
I was pretty no usually people start 18

296
01:09:00,083 --> 01:09:02,250
because I had this background in

297
01:09:02,250 --> 01:09:03,125
engineering forestry.

298
01:09:03,625 --> 01:09:06,666
But when I did find marine biology, I was

299
01:09:06,666 --> 01:09:08,166
those students that will

300
01:09:08,166 --> 01:09:10,291
like have super grades.

301
01:09:10,541 --> 01:09:11,333
I want to know more than

302
01:09:11,333 --> 01:09:12,416
a teacher could give me.

303
01:09:12,416 --> 01:09:15,083
I was like, I have this hunger for

304
01:09:15,083 --> 01:09:16,166
knowledge and exploration.

305
01:09:16,208 --> 01:09:19,583
So I'm happy it came up when I was more

306
01:09:19,583 --> 01:09:22,083
mature later in my life.

307
01:09:23,083 --> 01:09:24,875
And so when you were so you went through,

308
01:09:24,875 --> 01:09:26,458
you did your because it was pretty there

309
01:09:26,458 --> 01:09:27,333
wasn't really many

310
01:09:27,333 --> 01:09:30,375
people had done a lot in Peru.

311
01:09:30,375 --> 01:09:32,875
And so when you when you started in,

312
01:09:32,875 --> 01:09:35,500
you're doing your your research and get

313
01:09:35,500 --> 01:09:36,625
your undergraduate degree.

314
01:09:36,625 --> 01:09:37,500
What was your neck? What was

315
01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:38,750
sort of your next step then?

316
01:09:40,250 --> 01:09:41,500
So I studied marine biology.

317
01:09:42,166 --> 01:09:44,208
And we did have good professors, but it

318
01:09:44,208 --> 01:09:45,166
was more related to fisheries.

319
01:09:45,208 --> 01:09:47,958
So we do have that career for fisheries.

320
01:09:48,250 --> 01:09:50,500
But you know, it's a different and

321
01:09:50,500 --> 01:09:52,625
perspective compared to marine biology.

322
01:09:52,833 --> 01:09:55,000
And during that career, I did met women,

323
01:09:55,291 --> 01:09:57,041
especially like Joanna Farrow, Jimenez,

324
01:09:57,333 --> 01:10:00,000
that were doing conservation.

325
01:10:00,291 --> 01:10:01,291
But I was more when I was

326
01:10:01,291 --> 01:10:03,500
into the career later on.

327
01:10:04,458 --> 01:10:06,625
And but I have no if you told me when I

328
01:10:06,625 --> 01:10:08,375
was on my second third year of marine

329
01:10:08,375 --> 01:10:09,208
biology, improve its five years.

330
01:10:09,250 --> 01:10:12,833
But I will finish working with sharks.

331
01:10:13,250 --> 01:10:14,791
I will say there's no way

332
01:10:14,791 --> 01:10:16,333
not even in my oldest dream.

333
01:10:16,333 --> 01:10:17,208
I'll ever imagine that I

334
01:10:17,208 --> 01:10:18,750
was going to end up with that.

335
01:10:19,625 --> 01:10:22,250
So I think kind of it was kind of a for

336
01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:23,708
me was like a miracle

337
01:10:23,708 --> 01:10:25,291
how it all happened.

338
01:10:25,291 --> 01:10:28,166
It was very special because I was like

339
01:10:28,166 --> 01:10:30,750
more interested, like in jellyfish, in

340
01:10:30,750 --> 01:10:32,208
new debranch, very

341
01:10:32,208 --> 01:10:33,208
completely different creatures.

342
01:10:33,250 --> 01:10:37,125
And then I went to do internships in the

343
01:10:37,125 --> 01:10:40,500
island on my third, I think fourth year

344
01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:41,666
of career in my summer.

345
01:10:41,666 --> 01:10:42,750
I tried to go every

346
01:10:42,750 --> 01:10:44,416
summer somewhere else.

347
01:10:44,708 --> 01:10:46,250
I'm going to pose when I was the first

348
01:10:46,250 --> 01:10:48,583
overseas that I did internships.

349
01:10:49,083 --> 01:10:51,250
But I as well, no idea about sharks.

350
01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:53,750
I was like most people afraid of them.

351
01:10:54,166 --> 01:10:55,250
Jaws teeth.

352
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:57,750
I have no idea about their situation.

353
01:10:58,000 --> 01:10:59,250
They were vulnerable and in extinction.

354
01:10:59,291 --> 01:11:03,833
And in that trip, my boss, Eduardo

355
01:11:03,833 --> 01:11:06,750
Espinoza was a shark at it.

356
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:08,875
Like he was also a scientist and he was

357
01:11:08,875 --> 01:11:11,791
all about sharks and that passion that

358
01:11:11,791 --> 01:11:14,041
she had, he gave that to me.

359
01:11:14,625 --> 01:11:16,500
And of course, the key thing was diving

360
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:17,458
with them underwater.

361
01:11:17,750 --> 01:11:20,500
I remember my first time we were I think

362
01:11:20,500 --> 01:11:21,625
it was the third day I arrived.

363
01:11:21,625 --> 01:11:22,583
I stayed like three months in

364
01:11:22,583 --> 01:11:23,250
Galapagos in that internship.

365
01:11:23,291 --> 01:11:26,500
And we were with a friend,

366
01:11:26,708 --> 01:11:27,708
a new friend that we made.

367
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,833
And we were just having snorkeling very

368
01:11:29,833 --> 01:11:31,541
shallow waters, I think one, two meters.

369
01:11:32,458 --> 01:11:33,958
And she was stop. Don't

370
01:11:33,958 --> 01:11:35,791
move. There's a shark below you.

371
01:11:35,791 --> 01:11:37,291
And I was like, don't

372
01:11:37,291 --> 01:11:38,375
move. OK, he's going.

373
01:11:39,541 --> 01:11:41,583
I thought that was why

374
01:11:41,583 --> 01:11:42,708
he was saying don't move.

375
01:11:43,125 --> 01:11:43,458
Right.

376
01:11:44,291 --> 01:11:48,583
That it was this nurse shark just laying

377
01:11:48,583 --> 01:11:50,083
very, you know, what

378
01:11:50,083 --> 01:11:51,250
they do rest on the bottom.

379
01:11:51,291 --> 01:11:52,375
Yeah.

380
01:11:52,583 --> 01:11:54,833
And I realized that the shark was not

381
01:11:54,833 --> 01:11:55,833
going to do anything.

382
01:11:56,250 --> 01:11:59,083
And as the months and the weeks went by,

383
01:11:59,083 --> 01:12:01,041
I have the chance to dive with many

384
01:12:01,041 --> 01:12:02,833
different species of sharks in the lab.

385
01:12:02,833 --> 01:12:06,541
And by the end, I was so enthrilled by

386
01:12:06,541 --> 01:12:07,875
them that I wanted to

387
01:12:07,875 --> 01:12:10,333
dive fast to see them closer.

388
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,208
And sharks actually run away from me

389
01:12:13,208 --> 01:12:14,750
because they could feel my intensity.

390
01:12:15,833 --> 01:12:18,041
No, they're very, very sensitive animals

391
01:12:18,041 --> 01:12:21,250
and they can perceive you very easily.

392
01:12:21,791 --> 01:12:23,166
So that experience was

393
01:12:23,166 --> 01:12:25,000
for me like falling in love.

394
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,083
It was love at first sight as the first

395
01:12:27,083 --> 01:12:28,375
best description I

396
01:12:28,375 --> 01:12:29,416
could give from that moment.

397
01:12:29,666 --> 01:12:33,000
And from that day on, they have been my

398
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,666
main purpose, no, for this

399
01:12:35,666 --> 01:12:38,291
passion to try to understand them.

400
01:12:38,291 --> 01:12:39,500
And with that came all that knowledge

401
01:12:39,500 --> 01:12:40,791
about a vulnerable situation.

402
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:45,250
So it made my role as a researcher and as

403
01:12:45,250 --> 01:12:47,333
an educator later on, while we're working

404
01:12:47,333 --> 01:12:47,833
with fishery

405
01:12:47,833 --> 01:12:49,000
communities in northern Peru.

406
01:12:50,500 --> 01:12:51,500
That was my purpose.

407
01:12:52,250 --> 01:12:54,458
So you're you're really kind of a really

408
01:12:54,458 --> 01:12:55,916
like a trailblazer because it really

409
01:12:55,916 --> 01:12:58,666
wasn't anybody doing really any much

410
01:12:58,666 --> 01:13:00,375
dedicated shark research.

411
01:13:02,166 --> 01:13:04,250
Before you there fit their fish people.

412
01:13:04,291 --> 01:13:06,708
And we've had like Joanne

413
01:13:06,708 --> 01:13:10,000
Alfaro and Jimena on the show.

414
01:13:10,291 --> 01:13:12,000
And but they were they didn't really

415
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,416
start off as sharky people's per se.

416
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:19,125
And they were working more turtles

417
01:13:19,125 --> 01:13:21,875
because turtles get gather our attention

418
01:13:21,875 --> 01:13:22,958
early on because they

419
01:13:22,958 --> 01:13:24,333
were very endangered as well.

420
01:13:24,541 --> 01:13:25,250
And marine mammals.

421
01:13:26,375 --> 01:13:28,541
What's the main focus when people start

422
01:13:28,541 --> 01:13:30,250
working in marine biology in Peru?

423
01:13:31,125 --> 01:13:33,500
But yeah, because with that experience, I

424
01:13:33,500 --> 01:13:35,125
went back to Peru and I was like, OK,

425
01:13:35,125 --> 01:13:36,583
let's see what's going on in Peru.

426
01:13:37,041 --> 01:13:39,958
And by that time, I also met Jimena who

427
01:13:39,958 --> 01:13:43,333
was doing her PhD on genetics on sharks

428
01:13:43,333 --> 01:13:46,125
alone in Latin America, the Easter

429
01:13:46,125 --> 01:13:47,000
Pacific in the coast.

430
01:13:47,666 --> 01:13:49,541
And it was great to meet her at that time

431
01:13:49,541 --> 01:13:51,166
of my life because I wanted to

432
01:13:51,166 --> 01:13:53,083
do things for sharks in Peru.

433
01:13:53,291 --> 01:13:56,166
So I couldn't find information about

434
01:13:56,166 --> 01:13:58,208
them. There was basically some fisheries

435
01:13:58,208 --> 01:14:01,250
data, but very not even analyze like just

436
01:14:01,250 --> 01:14:04,666
data that that Peru Institute managed.

437
01:14:04,916 --> 01:14:07,166
And that was it. There was almost

438
01:14:07,166 --> 01:14:10,666
nothing. So with Jimena, we decided to

439
01:14:10,666 --> 01:14:12,458
start working on that

440
01:14:12,458 --> 01:14:13,750
and they made like a base.

441
01:14:13,750 --> 01:14:15,583
And what was the fishery situation? What

442
01:14:15,583 --> 01:14:17,416
species were the most good? And that for

443
01:14:17,416 --> 01:14:19,833
me was super important because first of

444
01:14:19,833 --> 01:14:22,291
all, give me a clear path of where to go.

445
01:14:23,291 --> 01:14:26,000
And I just start filling this gap of

446
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,000
information. And once I have this

447
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:30,041
baseline, I can just decide which would

448
01:14:30,041 --> 01:14:32,791
be the next steps for research that took

449
01:14:32,791 --> 01:14:35,583
me to my undergrad thesis that was

450
01:14:35,583 --> 01:14:37,583
focused on the smooth hammerhead shark.

451
01:14:38,208 --> 01:14:39,916
That is that we discovered that it was

452
01:14:39,916 --> 01:14:41,875
one of the most good species and the most

453
01:14:41,875 --> 01:14:42,625
good species in northern

454
01:14:42,625 --> 01:14:44,875
Peru for nursery areas.

455
01:14:45,291 --> 01:14:47,750
So I decided to do my undergrad based on

456
01:14:47,750 --> 01:14:49,958
that research that we did with Jimena. So

457
01:14:49,958 --> 01:14:54,666
having models early on, especially women

458
01:14:54,666 --> 01:14:56,750
in my case, because I'm a woman and it's

459
01:14:56,750 --> 01:14:58,958
hard to picture yourself doing something

460
01:14:58,958 --> 01:15:00,250
no one else has done it.

461
01:15:00,291 --> 01:15:03,541
Interestingly, these days, most women,

462
01:15:04,291 --> 01:15:07,291
early researchers or even students that

463
01:15:07,291 --> 01:15:09,333
are doing voluturists or working in

464
01:15:09,333 --> 01:15:11,500
sharks are most women in Peru, which is

465
01:15:11,500 --> 01:15:13,416
great because we come from a country

466
01:15:13,416 --> 01:15:16,625
where there's a high violence and a lot

467
01:15:16,625 --> 01:15:18,000
of stereotypes with women.

468
01:15:18,833 --> 01:15:20,916
But it's great to see that most are just

469
01:15:20,916 --> 01:15:22,750
women working with sharks. I think that's

470
01:15:22,750 --> 01:15:24,250
amazing. Why do you think that is?

471
01:15:24,291 --> 01:15:30,750
I think there are several reasons. We

472
01:15:30,750 --> 01:15:33,083
have a lot more marine biologists, women

473
01:15:33,083 --> 01:15:36,500
than men. It's probably because still a

474
01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:39,083
lot of stereotypes men need to provide.

475
01:15:40,333 --> 01:15:42,000
No, a marine biology is not a career that

476
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,500
you're going to make millionaire. It's

477
01:15:44,500 --> 01:15:46,625
more living your passion. You can also

478
01:15:46,625 --> 01:15:47,250
make it economically sustainable.

479
01:15:47,291 --> 01:15:50,500
So I think for women, there's less

480
01:15:50,500 --> 01:15:53,458
pressure to feed a career that they need

481
01:15:53,458 --> 01:15:58,000
to provide money. And second, because I

482
01:15:58,000 --> 01:15:59,791
think there's more role models in Peru,

483
01:16:00,166 --> 01:16:01,958
women that are doing research that the

484
01:16:01,958 --> 01:16:03,500
ones who research are

485
01:16:03,500 --> 01:16:06,166
women like me, Jimena.

486
01:16:06,458 --> 01:16:08,000
And then we have also worked with Joanna.

487
01:16:08,416 --> 01:16:10,208
So if you see a lot of women doing shark

488
01:16:10,208 --> 01:16:11,708
research, then it took a

489
01:16:11,708 --> 01:16:13,250
woman to follow that path.

490
01:16:14,208 --> 01:16:16,958
Well, Peru does have one claim to fame as

491
01:16:16,958 --> 01:16:20,166
far as in shark research. And I think the

492
01:16:20,166 --> 01:16:21,875
first time I met you about 10 years ago

493
01:16:21,875 --> 01:16:23,625
in person, I asked you if

494
01:16:23,625 --> 01:16:25,333
you knew Norma Chuchingo.

495
01:16:25,916 --> 01:16:27,625
And we have Norma. Yes.

496
01:16:28,125 --> 01:16:31,541
And you did know her. And she's just for

497
01:16:31,541 --> 01:16:33,666
people don't know her, she was the first

498
01:16:33,666 --> 01:16:35,791
woman to describe a new

499
01:16:35,791 --> 01:16:39,500
species of shark array back in 1963.

500
01:16:40,708 --> 01:16:43,958
Oh, wow. And so and when I first met

501
01:16:43,958 --> 01:16:47,166
Adriana, she was about 10 years ago to F

502
01:16:47,166 --> 01:16:50,958
at a food at FAO workshop. I was one of

503
01:16:50,958 --> 01:16:52,041
the first it wasn't the one of the first

504
01:16:52,041 --> 01:16:53,083
questions I asked you if you

505
01:16:53,083 --> 01:16:56,000
knew Norma and he's in sit in.

506
01:16:56,291 --> 01:16:59,791
I wish I knew her. But I remember clearly

507
01:16:59,791 --> 01:17:01,500
that day when you told me that I was

508
01:17:01,500 --> 01:17:03,625
like, what the first woman ever to

509
01:17:03,625 --> 01:17:05,625
describe a shark array species. That's a

510
01:17:05,625 --> 01:17:08,208
record and it's from Peru. Yeah, I know

511
01:17:08,208 --> 01:17:10,250
she's this small lady

512
01:17:10,250 --> 01:17:12,000
with this huge personality.

513
01:17:12,291 --> 01:17:17,291
She's like, I know she's retired now, but

514
01:17:17,291 --> 01:17:19,833
she has done so much for the fish world

515
01:17:19,833 --> 01:17:22,583
in general. Yeah, like a letter in Peru.

516
01:17:23,333 --> 01:17:24,583
She wanted to meet her

517
01:17:24,583 --> 01:17:26,000
before she leaves this world.

518
01:17:26,333 --> 01:17:28,833
Right. Yeah. Well, she wrote the she

519
01:17:28,833 --> 01:17:31,208
wrote the fishes of Peru back originally,

520
01:17:31,208 --> 01:17:33,541
I think in the 70s, I think the first

521
01:17:33,541 --> 01:17:37,000
edition. And I'd actually read, I think a

522
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:39,750
second edition back in the 1980s when I

523
01:17:39,750 --> 01:17:40,791
was a graduate student.

524
01:17:41,500 --> 01:17:43,500
So my professor, we had to learn all

525
01:17:43,500 --> 01:17:45,000
about ichthyologists around the world.

526
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,250
And she was one of the names that came

527
01:17:46,250 --> 01:17:49,291
up. And then when I did later research, I

528
01:17:49,291 --> 01:17:50,791
realized as far as I could tell, she's

529
01:17:50,791 --> 01:17:53,333
the first woman to describe a new species

530
01:17:53,333 --> 01:17:57,083
of shark or ray. And so anyway, I thought

531
01:17:57,083 --> 01:17:58,750
that was pretty cool. That was the first

532
01:17:58,750 --> 01:18:00,375
time I met you and then went to Peru that

533
01:18:00,375 --> 01:18:01,791
that was kind of pretty amazing.

534
01:18:02,291 --> 01:18:04,916
It's pretty, pretty nice to hang out and

535
01:18:04,916 --> 01:18:09,333
show out there. So so anyway, so that was

536
01:18:09,333 --> 01:18:11,291
pretty neat. So you're so how did you end

537
01:18:11,291 --> 01:18:14,666
up in you went up when you came back and

538
01:18:14,666 --> 01:18:16,291
you did all this other stuff, you went up

539
01:18:16,291 --> 01:18:18,791
to northern Peru. Was it just because of

540
01:18:18,791 --> 01:18:20,666
the smooth hammerheads or what brought

541
01:18:20,666 --> 01:18:21,666
you up to northern Peru?

542
01:18:23,458 --> 01:18:25,208
Well, I have never been a fan of big

543
01:18:25,208 --> 01:18:29,458
cities. I live in a 10 11 million person

544
01:18:29,458 --> 01:18:33,833
population city. So I wanted to run away

545
01:18:33,833 --> 01:18:36,250
from my ear and be like because I studied

546
01:18:36,250 --> 01:18:37,333
five years marine

547
01:18:37,333 --> 01:18:39,375
biology, but it was all books.

548
01:18:40,291 --> 01:18:42,666
So I was so eager to get into the field

549
01:18:42,666 --> 01:18:45,083
to have all that experience that I have

550
01:18:45,083 --> 01:18:48,041
in Galapagos now more like in touch with

551
01:18:48,041 --> 01:18:51,375
reality. So I moved to northern Peru and

552
01:18:51,375 --> 01:18:54,333
I was like a blooming experience because

553
01:18:54,333 --> 01:18:55,375
I had the chance to

554
01:18:55,375 --> 01:18:57,000
basically be close to the fishermen.

555
01:18:57,958 --> 01:18:59,458
When I was in Galapagos, I was like

556
01:18:59,458 --> 01:19:01,500
fishermen are my enemy. They're killing

557
01:19:01,500 --> 01:19:03,708
sharks. This is terrible. I have to stop

558
01:19:03,708 --> 01:19:05,958
it. Well, you know, you're very young and

559
01:19:05,958 --> 01:19:09,250
innocent. And so I went there and I

560
01:19:09,250 --> 01:19:11,000
discovered a different situation. These

561
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:13,708
fishermen, they ended up being my friends

562
01:19:13,708 --> 01:19:15,250
and I spent so many hours on the board.

563
01:19:15,291 --> 01:19:18,083
I didn't have any money when I started,

564
01:19:18,083 --> 01:19:20,250
of course, I have my father's, who goes,

565
01:19:20,541 --> 01:19:22,625
but he's blessing go and do your stuff,

566
01:19:23,125 --> 01:19:25,041
but I don't have money not to support you

567
01:19:25,041 --> 01:19:27,125
on all these projects. So I started as an

568
01:19:27,125 --> 01:19:29,583
early career scientist applying for these

569
01:19:29,583 --> 01:19:30,500
small grants that

570
01:19:30,500 --> 01:19:31,750
were like the first one.

571
01:19:31,750 --> 01:19:32,916
I got to remember was the body

572
01:19:32,916 --> 01:19:34,708
foundation. It was not that much money,

573
01:19:34,708 --> 01:19:36,666
but I was so excited. I was going to

574
01:19:36,666 --> 01:19:39,833
change the world with a thousand USA.

575
01:19:41,666 --> 01:19:43,375
And that's something that's all you need

576
01:19:43,375 --> 01:19:45,416
because you have all this energy and this

577
01:19:45,416 --> 01:19:48,416
education. So with that, I get to move to

578
01:19:48,416 --> 01:19:50,458
northern Peru for for the whole summer. I

579
01:19:50,458 --> 01:19:53,208
spent like the last seven years I have

580
01:19:53,208 --> 01:19:54,250
spent on enough in northern Peru.

581
01:19:54,291 --> 01:19:57,583
But that first time I went to a very

582
01:19:57,583 --> 01:20:00,375
small fishery town where there was like I

583
01:20:00,375 --> 01:20:04,625
didn't knew anyone and I was very

584
01:20:04,625 --> 01:20:06,791
attracted to the situation to knowing

585
01:20:06,791 --> 01:20:09,416
what was going on. And I understood what

586
01:20:09,416 --> 01:20:10,250
was the main reason.

587
01:20:10,291 --> 01:20:12,541
There were not mean people. There were

588
01:20:12,541 --> 01:20:16,000
just fathers and daughters and son that

589
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,583
were living their lives and they they was

590
01:20:17,583 --> 01:20:21,000
their livelihood. No. And I understand

591
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:22,000
that the only way I could

592
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:23,958
change it is to just observe.

593
01:20:24,666 --> 01:20:26,666
Don't criticize the straight to

594
01:20:26,666 --> 01:20:28,333
understand from their perspective why

595
01:20:28,333 --> 01:20:30,208
it's going on to try to make something

596
01:20:30,208 --> 01:20:32,208
that works for everyone. It's very hard.

597
01:20:33,083 --> 01:20:36,000
No. And I think we have changed a lot.

598
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:37,041
People used to come to a

599
01:20:37,041 --> 01:20:37,250
place and say, this is bad.

600
01:20:37,291 --> 01:20:39,541
You need to do it this way. And they

601
01:20:39,541 --> 01:20:41,833
never asked the local people what is what

602
01:20:41,833 --> 01:20:43,750
they want, how they can make it improve.

603
01:20:44,750 --> 01:20:46,666
And there's a lot of like education is

604
01:20:46,666 --> 01:20:49,375
very limited in these places. I remember

605
01:20:49,375 --> 01:20:50,375
fishermen, they were

606
01:20:50,375 --> 01:20:52,500
catching baby hammerhead hearts.

607
01:20:52,500 --> 01:20:53,708
And they didn't even know that that could

608
01:20:53,708 --> 01:20:58,166
become a two, three meter. So it was very

609
01:20:58,166 --> 01:21:00,375
basic information they have. There was no

610
01:21:00,375 --> 01:21:02,916
government presence. So it was a very

611
01:21:02,916 --> 01:21:05,500
good experience to to understand it from

612
01:21:05,500 --> 01:21:06,250
their perspective to see how this can be.

613
01:21:06,291 --> 01:21:09,833
And that's where I started working with

614
01:21:09,833 --> 01:21:10,666
children as well in

615
01:21:10,666 --> 01:21:11,625
this future communities.

616
01:21:14,625 --> 01:21:16,875
So so did you set up that did you set up

617
01:21:16,875 --> 01:21:19,083
like your own like little organization

618
01:21:19,083 --> 01:21:21,000
like your your own little nonprofit

619
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:22,166
organization up there?

620
01:21:23,583 --> 01:21:26,583
No, I still don't have it. I was working

621
01:21:26,583 --> 01:21:28,041
more like an independent researcher

622
01:21:28,041 --> 01:21:30,791
collaborating with other persons. For

623
01:21:30,791 --> 01:21:33,416
example, I was I have a close friend who

624
01:21:33,416 --> 01:21:36,750
started an NGO for education for for

625
01:21:36,750 --> 01:21:38,625
children to bring them outdoors.

626
01:21:39,291 --> 01:21:41,500
So that was a key time for me. And that's

627
01:21:41,500 --> 01:21:44,250
where I met. God, the well, I really met

628
01:21:44,250 --> 01:21:46,166
God, the that is my co-author in the

629
01:21:46,166 --> 01:21:48,000
children's book that was doing that time.

630
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,125
We weren't working with the children in

631
01:21:50,125 --> 01:21:50,791
fishery communities.

632
01:21:51,916 --> 01:21:54,500
So, yeah, that's the good thing about

633
01:21:54,500 --> 01:21:57,208
living being in like, for example, in

634
01:21:57,208 --> 01:21:59,375
Australia, I see it is so much harder to

635
01:21:59,375 --> 01:22:01,250
make research as an independent

636
01:22:01,250 --> 01:22:02,833
researcher because you need to be

637
01:22:02,833 --> 01:22:05,000
affiliated with a big institution and

638
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:06,833
have all these permits that it's great.

639
01:22:07,291 --> 01:22:09,291
Of course, you need that. But in places

640
01:22:09,291 --> 01:22:12,625
like Peru, you can just be more informal

641
01:22:12,625 --> 01:22:14,208
in that way, but you have more

642
01:22:14,208 --> 01:22:16,541
opportunities to just be out there and

643
01:22:16,541 --> 01:22:18,666
collect data and know and

644
01:22:18,666 --> 01:22:19,875
be in touch with with that.

645
01:22:20,916 --> 01:22:22,541
I think I think I think too, because

646
01:22:22,541 --> 01:22:24,625
there is you know, Australia has a lot of

647
01:22:24,625 --> 01:22:27,458
people doing sharks sharks and rays there

648
01:22:27,458 --> 01:22:31,041
now. Now they do go back when I started

649
01:22:31,041 --> 01:22:34,000
out 3540 years ago in the 1980s.

650
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:35,833
It was there was basically John Stevens,

651
01:22:35,833 --> 01:22:38,000
Peter last and a couple other people.

652
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:39,416
There was not that many people there.

653
01:22:39,916 --> 01:22:41,750
Colin Sipendorfer early on, but there was

654
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:42,250
not very many people.

655
01:22:42,291 --> 01:22:44,708
And that's sort of like you. But once you

656
01:22:44,708 --> 01:22:46,166
start getting a lot more people involved

657
01:22:46,166 --> 01:22:48,625
doing it, then you start having more

658
01:22:48,625 --> 01:22:51,916
regulations and have to do different

659
01:22:51,916 --> 01:22:52,541
things, which I

660
01:22:52,541 --> 01:22:54,625
probably Peru will get there.

661
01:22:54,875 --> 01:22:56,375
Unfortunately, if you get as more people

662
01:22:56,375 --> 01:22:58,708
get into into the shark shark world,

663
01:22:58,708 --> 01:23:02,625
doing stuff would be my guess. But it

664
01:23:02,625 --> 01:23:03,750
sounded like it was a really wild.

665
01:23:04,666 --> 01:23:06,416
It was pretty the nice thing. It seems

666
01:23:06,416 --> 01:23:08,250
like I can relate to is you had like

667
01:23:08,250 --> 01:23:10,958
there was no sort of path. You basically

668
01:23:10,958 --> 01:23:13,666
just blazed your own trail, basically

669
01:23:13,666 --> 01:23:14,583
like a you're basically

670
01:23:14,583 --> 01:23:15,833
like a pioneer explorer.

671
01:23:17,166 --> 01:23:19,500
Yes. And I think that's fascinating. And

672
01:23:19,500 --> 01:23:21,750
I always remember those days as very

673
01:23:21,750 --> 01:23:23,500
important early on. They build my

674
01:23:23,500 --> 01:23:26,916
character. I remember the first time I

675
01:23:26,916 --> 01:23:27,916
went on a trip with

676
01:23:27,916 --> 01:23:30,125
fishermen from northern Peru.

677
01:23:30,291 --> 01:23:32,750
I remember that I did I tell my mom that

678
01:23:32,750 --> 01:23:35,208
I was going to go on a journey for I

679
01:23:35,208 --> 01:23:36,958
didn't know how long it was going to last

680
01:23:36,958 --> 01:23:38,833
because it depends how much cash they get

681
01:23:38,833 --> 01:23:42,166
to come back. And my mom was just trying.

682
01:23:42,625 --> 01:23:46,625
We have to call your dad and my dad was

683
01:23:46,625 --> 01:23:49,416
like, he didn't want to say the awful

684
01:23:49,416 --> 01:23:50,916
word that would be the worst case

685
01:23:50,916 --> 01:23:52,791
scenario, but he was like, Adriana, what

686
01:23:52,791 --> 01:23:54,166
are you doing? This is insane.

687
01:23:54,291 --> 01:23:57,458
And I was like, my dad's know when I have

688
01:23:57,458 --> 01:23:59,583
my mind decided there's nothing they can

689
01:23:59,583 --> 01:24:01,250
do. They could change me to the best.

690
01:24:01,250 --> 01:24:05,666
That's the only way I have my mind was

691
01:24:05,666 --> 01:24:07,958
because I was longing for the moment

692
01:24:07,958 --> 01:24:10,541
because I was spent so much time on the

693
01:24:10,541 --> 01:24:11,875
landing site, seeing all

694
01:24:11,875 --> 01:24:13,250
these sharks come there.

695
01:24:13,291 --> 01:24:15,000
I wanted to go to the ocean and have

696
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:17,250
experience to be out there. It was still

697
01:24:17,250 --> 01:24:19,000
very sad because they were catching

698
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:21,333
sharks, but it was one of the most

699
01:24:21,333 --> 01:24:24,166
fascinating experience I ever had. I

700
01:24:24,166 --> 01:24:26,208
remember I have one. I'm very like

701
01:24:26,208 --> 01:24:29,541
adventurous and I'm usually not afraid.

702
01:24:29,541 --> 01:24:31,250
But in that trip, I have a panic attack.

703
01:24:31,291 --> 01:24:34,375
I have two attacks in my life and I was

704
01:24:34,375 --> 01:24:36,833
one of the first one that I got because I

705
01:24:36,833 --> 01:24:39,083
remember I didn't know the fisherman. I

706
01:24:39,083 --> 01:24:41,375
was at that time working in the other

707
01:24:41,375 --> 01:24:42,958
thingos and they also work with

708
01:24:42,958 --> 01:24:44,583
fishermen. Nothing has happened there.

709
01:24:44,833 --> 01:24:46,250
Always the nicest persons.

710
01:24:46,291 --> 01:24:49,250
But still, there were strangers for me. I

711
01:24:49,250 --> 01:24:51,750
was going by woman by himself with four

712
01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:54,625
men on a boat on a artisanal boat, no

713
01:24:54,625 --> 01:24:57,958
small boat for many, many days. At the

714
01:24:57,958 --> 01:25:01,666
end, we were like 13 days overseas. But

715
01:25:01,666 --> 01:25:03,833
then we were so far away on the ocean

716
01:25:03,833 --> 01:25:05,250
that we even get to international waters.

717
01:25:05,291 --> 01:25:09,458
So the first two days we were just

718
01:25:09,458 --> 01:25:12,541
traveling from the coast to the fishery

719
01:25:12,541 --> 01:25:15,458
area. And I realized on the second day

720
01:25:15,458 --> 01:25:18,041
that I was it was obvious. But the second

721
01:25:18,041 --> 01:25:20,500
day when I have no internet phone, no

722
01:25:20,500 --> 01:25:22,750
nothing to communicate. We

723
01:25:22,750 --> 01:25:25,750
have we still have the pilot.

724
01:25:26,291 --> 01:25:28,166
We have the pilot captain. He still have

725
01:25:28,166 --> 01:25:31,125
a radio to communicate. We have that

726
01:25:31,125 --> 01:25:33,208
wasn't completely but I didn't have my

727
01:25:33,208 --> 01:25:35,291
phone. Nothing. And I was like, oh my

728
01:25:35,291 --> 01:25:38,833
God, I'm here in this tiny boat with five

729
01:25:38,833 --> 01:25:40,833
men that I don't know. And I'm wearing

730
01:25:40,833 --> 01:25:43,791
the middle of the Pacific Ocean. And I

731
01:25:43,791 --> 01:25:45,625
had a panic attack and I start throwing

732
01:25:45,625 --> 01:25:46,958
up. I was I never get

733
01:25:46,958 --> 01:25:48,708
DC on the ocean. Never.

734
01:25:49,291 --> 01:25:51,958
I usually get very relaxed, but I was

735
01:25:51,958 --> 01:25:54,416
throwing up like this, you know, the last

736
01:25:54,416 --> 01:25:58,583
stage when I was I told myself, Adriana,

737
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:00,625
you have put yourself in this situation.

738
01:26:01,166 --> 01:26:02,625
You are the only one who can get out of

739
01:26:02,625 --> 01:26:04,208
it because they were looking me like, oh,

740
01:26:04,208 --> 01:26:05,541
we're going to do with this girl. We're

741
01:26:05,541 --> 01:26:07,291
two days away from land.

742
01:26:08,958 --> 01:26:11,000
There was nothing. There's nothing. You

743
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,208
can't go back. You can't go back. Yeah.

744
01:26:13,500 --> 01:26:15,375
And they spent so much money to get out

745
01:26:15,375 --> 01:26:16,166
there as well. It was

746
01:26:16,166 --> 01:26:17,166
going to be expensive.

747
01:26:18,333 --> 01:26:19,875
Yeah, just for people that hear the

748
01:26:19,875 --> 01:26:21,375
podcast, we're going to have we have some

749
01:26:21,375 --> 01:26:23,000
we're going to have some pictures up for

750
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,291
this episode. You can see what she's

751
01:26:25,291 --> 01:26:25,916
talking about these

752
01:26:25,916 --> 01:26:28,833
artisanal boats. These are not very.

753
01:26:29,291 --> 01:26:31,291
They don't have bathrooms. They're very,

754
01:26:31,291 --> 01:26:34,000
very sick. I remember I spent two days

755
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:37,000
holding myself being because I was like,

756
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,500
we're going to be and just be two days.

757
01:26:40,250 --> 01:26:44,916
I'm not even talking about. I was 13 days

758
01:26:44,916 --> 01:26:47,291
with no bathroom like nothing.

759
01:26:48,291 --> 01:26:50,583
I I I I have. But they were such

760
01:26:50,583 --> 01:26:53,000
gentlemen. So I understand I have to tell

761
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:54,666
them I'm going to the bathroom. So they

762
01:26:54,666 --> 01:26:58,708
all look like this. But yeah, never. So I

763
01:26:58,708 --> 01:27:00,000
went to the other side.

764
01:27:00,291 --> 01:27:04,291
No, I put my butt outside the boat and

765
01:27:04,291 --> 01:27:06,666
that was it. Yeah, it was very extreme

766
01:27:06,666 --> 01:27:08,958
situation. I put myself. I can imagine.

767
01:27:10,333 --> 01:27:12,250
So be a night director for sure.

768
01:27:12,291 --> 01:27:14,875
Yeah. So I saw all the young students out

769
01:27:14,875 --> 01:27:16,291
there that are just starting out,

770
01:27:16,291 --> 01:27:17,916
particularly the women. Just listen to

771
01:27:17,916 --> 01:27:19,916
the story. Play it back on the podcast

772
01:27:19,916 --> 01:27:21,333
and listen to what she just explained.

773
01:27:21,875 --> 01:27:23,958
Thirteen days at sea with five men in

774
01:27:23,958 --> 01:27:25,208
international waters and no

775
01:27:25,208 --> 01:27:27,250
bathroom. Just imagine that.

776
01:27:28,291 --> 01:27:31,166
But you know, Peru is not the safest

777
01:27:31,166 --> 01:27:33,875
place for women. We have records in rape,

778
01:27:34,291 --> 01:27:37,125
rape, and all that. But fishermen, at

779
01:27:37,125 --> 01:27:39,083
least the one that worked there, the most

780
01:27:39,083 --> 01:27:41,958
gentle man ever. I remember every time

781
01:27:41,958 --> 01:27:43,791
they make the food and have great make

782
01:27:43,791 --> 01:27:45,291
food. I was the first one

783
01:27:45,291 --> 01:27:46,250
to get the biggest plate.

784
01:27:46,291 --> 01:27:49,250
Every time I have to go being they never

785
01:27:49,250 --> 01:27:53,291
pick like they treat like a princess, you

786
01:27:53,291 --> 01:27:55,416
know, like, yeah, it's a care of you. I

787
01:27:55,416 --> 01:27:58,958
felt that's that's good. That's really

788
01:27:58,958 --> 01:28:01,250
nice. It's very, really nice to hear. And

789
01:28:01,250 --> 01:28:04,083
after that, they probably when you went

790
01:28:04,083 --> 01:28:06,250
back to the fishing portion, they

791
01:28:06,250 --> 01:28:08,333
probably had a lot of respect for you as

792
01:28:08,333 --> 01:28:10,458
far as being able to. Yes, I remember

793
01:28:10,458 --> 01:28:12,625
they respect me on another level because

794
01:28:12,625 --> 01:28:14,208
fishermen in Peru, most of them, they

795
01:28:14,208 --> 01:28:15,000
don't know how to swim.

796
01:28:16,166 --> 01:28:18,375
They never they are very scared about the

797
01:28:18,375 --> 01:28:20,666
ocean itself. And one day when we're like

798
01:28:20,666 --> 01:28:23,000
very, very far away, you could tell how

799
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,708
you were going offshore oceanic water

800
01:28:25,708 --> 01:28:28,458
because of the color of water. And the

801
01:28:28,458 --> 01:28:29,791
birds were very different.

802
01:28:30,333 --> 01:28:31,958
So I told them I need to jump.

803
01:28:32,291 --> 01:28:34,125
And you know, those fishing boats, to

804
01:28:34,125 --> 01:28:37,291
stay in the boat and never get out when

805
01:28:37,291 --> 01:28:39,916
you go in the land inside. So like, what

806
01:28:39,916 --> 01:28:42,500
are you jumping? No, no, no, no, no, no.

807
01:28:42,500 --> 01:28:43,958
We need to put you a rope.

808
01:28:44,875 --> 01:28:48,750
So I put my legs on. They put me a rope

809
01:28:48,750 --> 01:28:50,958
on my wrist and they let me jump. And

810
01:28:50,958 --> 01:28:52,500
they were like, what is she doing? She's

811
01:28:52,500 --> 01:28:54,458
going to be like in throw, but I see

812
01:28:54,458 --> 01:28:56,791
creature and never come back. So I think

813
01:28:56,791 --> 01:28:58,125
after they were, they took me with

814
01:28:58,125 --> 01:28:59,250
different eyes as well.

815
01:28:59,916 --> 01:29:03,375
Like we have to watch her. We have to

816
01:29:03,375 --> 01:29:05,041
really watch her. She's gonna drown.

817
01:29:05,666 --> 01:29:10,583
She's crazy. Yeah. We can't keep up with

818
01:29:10,583 --> 01:29:14,166
her. That that is an event. So so how

819
01:29:14,166 --> 01:29:15,541
much of the story did you share with your

820
01:29:15,541 --> 01:29:16,250
parents when you got home?

821
01:29:16,291 --> 01:29:21,500
I think my mom was it's always like that.

822
01:29:21,500 --> 01:29:23,250
She's super wary when I told her the

823
01:29:23,250 --> 01:29:25,916
news. Once I leave, she just forgets. So

824
01:29:25,916 --> 01:29:28,333
right. That's good because you will be

825
01:29:28,333 --> 01:29:30,375
like a nightmare for her for those 13

826
01:29:30,375 --> 01:29:33,375
days. But I do remember she told me that

827
01:29:33,375 --> 01:29:35,166
I told her I was coming back on the sixth

828
01:29:35,166 --> 01:29:37,583
day. And on the sixth day, I knew I were

829
01:29:37,583 --> 01:29:39,500
going to stay much longer. So I asked the

830
01:29:39,500 --> 01:29:41,500
captain to send a message back to her.

831
01:29:42,291 --> 01:29:46,791
And she got someone like she never knew

832
01:29:46,791 --> 01:29:49,791
from the port from the from the port to

833
01:29:49,791 --> 01:29:52,208
call her and she was like, Senora Union.

834
01:29:52,583 --> 01:29:56,000
Yes. And she knew it was about me. Your

835
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,708
daughter. It's all right. She will come

836
01:29:57,708 --> 01:29:58,625
back on the next three

837
01:29:58,625 --> 01:30:01,666
moons. And that was it.

838
01:30:02,083 --> 01:30:05,416
She only knew that I was safe and I was

839
01:30:05,416 --> 01:30:07,416
coming back eventually. So that's all she

840
01:30:07,416 --> 01:30:08,958
needs to know. Yeah.

841
01:30:09,291 --> 01:30:12,083
Oh, so that was how you're what you ever

842
01:30:12,083 --> 01:30:13,458
go out with them again or is that your

843
01:30:13,458 --> 01:30:16,375
one trip? No, I have been out in other

844
01:30:16,375 --> 01:30:18,333
fishing trips, but never as that extreme.

845
01:30:18,666 --> 01:30:20,250
I have. I don't know if I still have the

846
01:30:20,250 --> 01:30:22,166
GPS bones, but I was in international

847
01:30:22,166 --> 01:30:24,541
waters. So I was very far away at some

848
01:30:24,541 --> 01:30:26,291
point from the coast and the data staff.

849
01:30:26,291 --> 01:30:28,791
That most extreme and I will be was the

850
01:30:28,791 --> 01:30:31,416
first one as well. Yeah. So I gave you

851
01:30:31,416 --> 01:30:32,708
while you had the other quen. Did you get

852
01:30:32,708 --> 01:30:33,916
a lot? Would you able to collect a lot of

853
01:30:33,916 --> 01:30:35,291
data on sharks while you're out there at

854
01:30:35,291 --> 01:30:36,250
least? Yeah, it was.

855
01:30:36,291 --> 01:30:39,916
It was sad as well because I get to know

856
01:30:39,916 --> 01:30:42,666
to see the sharks when they came in and

857
01:30:42,666 --> 01:30:45,583
they throw these very long nets because I

858
01:30:45,583 --> 01:30:47,541
think that's less resources. They are

859
01:30:47,541 --> 01:30:49,916
fishermen try to have a higher fishing

860
01:30:49,916 --> 01:30:52,791
efforts. So improve. We are managing

861
01:30:52,791 --> 01:30:56,541
this. We started with one kilometer and

862
01:30:56,541 --> 01:30:58,208
now three. I think now it's five or

863
01:30:58,208 --> 01:31:01,208
seven. But it's all very mano. It's such

864
01:31:01,208 --> 01:31:03,208
a hard job as well to throw all this

865
01:31:03,208 --> 01:31:04,541
really and they have to

866
01:31:04,541 --> 01:31:05,250
collect them back every morning.

867
01:31:05,291 --> 01:31:08,833
So I was helping them to pulling the nets

868
01:31:08,833 --> 01:31:11,458
off and then we got a lot of treasure

869
01:31:11,458 --> 01:31:14,875
sharks blue sharks of hammerheads month

870
01:31:14,875 --> 01:31:17,833
the race. So it was very sad and I did

871
01:31:17,833 --> 01:31:19,875
participate on that. They had this huge

872
01:31:19,875 --> 01:31:22,041
knives and the boat was moving like this

873
01:31:22,041 --> 01:31:23,583
often with blood with

874
01:31:23,583 --> 01:31:25,125
this huge knife strike to

875
01:31:25,833 --> 01:31:28,583
the right. And I was part of all that

876
01:31:28,583 --> 01:31:32,416
process and I did it was hard to watch

877
01:31:32,416 --> 01:31:37,625
it. Yes, it was very sad. But then you

878
01:31:37,625 --> 01:31:40,916
get to see how much they work and how

879
01:31:40,916 --> 01:31:43,000
little they earn like I remember that

880
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:45,041
after two weeks they were earning like a

881
01:31:45,041 --> 01:31:47,000
hundred to hundred dollars per person.

882
01:31:48,083 --> 01:31:50,333
And like a huge mobile

883
01:31:50,333 --> 01:31:52,250
was worth like two dollars.

884
01:31:52,291 --> 01:31:56,500
Like command. These people are doing it

885
01:31:56,500 --> 01:31:58,833
because they there's their leavings and

886
01:31:58,833 --> 01:32:00,375
they have inherited their from

887
01:32:00,375 --> 01:32:01,958
generations to generations over your

888
01:32:01,958 --> 01:32:03,500
touch to them. They're not making that

889
01:32:03,500 --> 01:32:06,000
much money for all that hard work.

890
01:32:07,166 --> 01:32:10,666
And they have a lot of other. You know, I

891
01:32:10,666 --> 01:32:12,083
know when I was there with you and you

892
01:32:12,083 --> 01:32:16,083
were doing the the series, you know, that

893
01:32:16,083 --> 01:32:18,083
the other things we was real striking was

894
01:32:18,083 --> 01:32:18,750
that they have things

895
01:32:18,750 --> 01:32:20,250
like piracy out in the seas.

896
01:32:20,291 --> 01:32:23,000
They have the drug cartels. They have

897
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:26,916
local, you know, gangster mobs at the

898
01:32:26,916 --> 01:32:30,541
various ports there. It's not an easy

899
01:32:30,541 --> 01:32:34,208
life to be a fisherman there. No way. I

900
01:32:34,208 --> 01:32:36,916
was okay. There was no piracy but closer

901
01:32:36,916 --> 01:32:38,250
to the frontier with Ecuador.

902
01:32:38,291 --> 01:32:41,125
And now actually recently they have a new

903
01:32:41,125 --> 01:32:46,000
journal when there was a lot of people

904
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,125
have been killed on the last three years

905
01:32:49,125 --> 01:32:52,291
because of pirates and they just go and

906
01:32:52,291 --> 01:32:54,333
they don't they don't matter. They don't

907
01:32:54,333 --> 01:32:56,791
anything. They'll just take whatever and

908
01:32:56,791 --> 01:32:58,416
life doesn't is worth for

909
01:32:58,416 --> 01:33:00,583
them. So it's a hard job.

910
01:33:01,750 --> 01:33:04,583
And fishermen are also very attached to

911
01:33:04,583 --> 01:33:07,083
that lifestyle. You cannot bring a

912
01:33:07,083 --> 01:33:08,875
fisherman to work on a factor that will

913
01:33:08,875 --> 01:33:10,750
kill themselves. They need that

914
01:33:10,750 --> 01:33:13,500
adventure. Don't sense of risk. No,

915
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:15,541
that's what I was a great example because

916
01:33:15,541 --> 01:33:17,750
you have fishermen that are now park

917
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:20,000
rangers because it

918
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:21,541
fits their way of living.

919
01:33:22,291 --> 01:33:25,166
And they're wild man. Yeah, they're wild

920
01:33:25,166 --> 01:33:27,708
man. And they're really enjoying what

921
01:33:27,708 --> 01:33:29,500
they do. It's amazing to be on the ocean

922
01:33:29,500 --> 01:33:32,125
every single day. But it is a hard job

923
01:33:32,125 --> 01:33:35,208
and it's very bad because then you see

924
01:33:35,208 --> 01:33:38,250
how much that thing got sailed

925
01:33:38,250 --> 01:33:39,833
on another part of the world.

926
01:33:40,291 --> 01:33:42,625
And they're making all that money. So it

927
01:33:42,625 --> 01:33:43,833
makes you question about

928
01:33:43,833 --> 01:33:45,041
the ethics about the whole.

929
01:33:46,625 --> 01:33:48,125
Yeah, I think to us talking to those

930
01:33:48,125 --> 01:33:50,125
fishermen to you probably I know my own

931
01:33:50,125 --> 01:33:52,708
experience, you learn a lot talking with

932
01:33:52,708 --> 01:33:53,875
the guys because they're out there all

933
01:33:53,875 --> 01:33:56,750
the time. And they see, you know, as much

934
01:33:56,750 --> 01:33:58,083
as you like to be out there, you can't be

935
01:33:58,083 --> 01:34:00,208
out there all every day, unless you

936
01:34:00,208 --> 01:34:01,250
become a fisher woman or something.

937
01:34:01,291 --> 01:34:03,916
But it's but but those guys see a lot of

938
01:34:03,916 --> 01:34:06,166
stuff and they can tell you about what

939
01:34:06,166 --> 01:34:07,791
they're catching, what they used to catch

940
01:34:07,791 --> 01:34:11,166
and everything. And so they're they're

941
01:34:11,166 --> 01:34:12,875
very they got a lot of fisher knowledge,

942
01:34:12,875 --> 01:34:15,041
I guess, which I think is important. And

943
01:34:15,041 --> 01:34:16,083
it's something that I think a lot of

944
01:34:16,083 --> 01:34:17,250
people overlook in terms of.

945
01:34:17,541 --> 01:34:20,458
It's key. I think in most of

946
01:34:20,458 --> 01:34:22,291
underdeveloped countries, like in the

947
01:34:22,291 --> 01:34:24,958
case of Peru, all my research has been

948
01:34:24,958 --> 01:34:27,625
based in in their knowledge and in

949
01:34:27,625 --> 01:34:29,125
collaboration because they bring the

950
01:34:29,125 --> 01:34:30,875
samples back. If there was no fishery

951
01:34:30,875 --> 01:34:33,000
there, who wouldn't be able to study

952
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:33,875
them? It's so expensive.

953
01:34:34,291 --> 01:34:36,083
You don't have money to just rent a boat

954
01:34:36,083 --> 01:34:40,708
and go through their through their way of

955
01:34:40,708 --> 01:34:42,625
life and through their knowledge that you

956
01:34:42,625 --> 01:34:44,791
can gather all that information. So I'm

957
01:34:44,791 --> 01:34:46,916
very helpful. They were having very

958
01:34:46,916 --> 01:34:48,583
helpful and very grateful for the nurse.

959
01:34:48,583 --> 01:34:49,750
They have been to for sure.

960
01:34:50,291 --> 01:34:51,833
So you're spending all this time up in

961
01:34:51,833 --> 01:34:53,958
northern Peru going to go going out with

962
01:34:53,958 --> 01:34:55,208
the fishermen and go everything. Did you

963
01:34:55,208 --> 01:34:59,625
have at that time? Did you have any any

964
01:34:59,625 --> 01:35:01,666
overall goal you were looking at that

965
01:35:01,666 --> 01:35:03,291
point in time? Because you this is before

966
01:35:03,291 --> 01:35:04,958
you I think this before you even really

967
01:35:04,958 --> 01:35:06,250
went and did your master's correct.

968
01:35:06,291 --> 01:35:09,375
It was before it was just when I finished

969
01:35:09,375 --> 01:35:11,875
my undergrad, I moved northern Peru and I

970
01:35:11,875 --> 01:35:14,458
have stayed there for many years. So I

971
01:35:14,458 --> 01:35:17,166
started focusing on smooth hammerheads

972
01:35:17,166 --> 01:35:20,000
because there was a huge there's a one of

973
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:20,583
the largest nursing

974
01:35:20,583 --> 01:35:22,000
areas in the eastern Pacific.

975
01:35:22,291 --> 01:35:24,666
But then whatever I could check like

976
01:35:24,666 --> 01:35:27,416
race. Oh, there's race. Oh, there's like

977
01:35:27,416 --> 01:35:29,375
hand sharks. No. So whatever guitar

978
01:35:29,375 --> 01:35:30,625
fishes. So whatever I

979
01:35:30,625 --> 01:35:32,250
could put my hands on a circle.

980
01:35:32,291 --> 01:35:32,541
And I was like, Oh, I'm not expecting

981
01:35:32,541 --> 01:35:35,333
data because I knew there was nothing. So

982
01:35:35,333 --> 01:35:37,458
it was it was key and they were get fish.

983
01:35:37,750 --> 01:35:39,666
No, for example, the killer fish that we

984
01:35:39,666 --> 01:35:41,791
did a few years ago that symposium.

985
01:35:41,791 --> 01:35:44,291
I did like a literature review and it was

986
01:35:44,291 --> 01:35:48,791
so sad that today we fish 2% of what was

987
01:35:48,791 --> 01:35:52,166
once caught on the 80s. So the 80s was

988
01:35:52,166 --> 01:35:54,000
the peak that we know

989
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,125
because we have data from the 50s.

990
01:35:57,291 --> 01:35:59,666
We have a large 2%. So what's left and

991
01:35:59,666 --> 01:36:02,208
that species has been caught for

992
01:36:02,208 --> 01:36:05,625
millennia, even pre in God like before

993
01:36:05,625 --> 01:36:08,041
Christ has been important for the

994
01:36:08,041 --> 01:36:09,791
culture. They have long displays.

995
01:36:10,916 --> 01:36:13,291
They, they move the killer fish all

996
01:36:13,291 --> 01:36:15,291
around to the highlands to the jungle.

997
01:36:16,291 --> 01:36:18,500
So it was a very important part of that

998
01:36:18,500 --> 01:36:21,500
culture. And now it's almost gone

999
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:24,833
compared to how it was. Yeah, in the 60s,

1000
01:36:24,833 --> 01:36:27,500
probably when you went to a yes, a Chuda

1001
01:36:27,500 --> 01:36:30,208
Bay, you probably wouldn't be able to

1002
01:36:30,208 --> 01:36:31,375
walk because they were

1003
01:36:31,375 --> 01:36:32,250
on top of each other.

1004
01:36:32,291 --> 01:36:35,708
I know you have so few people are not

1005
01:36:35,708 --> 01:36:38,916
even the government and many people are

1006
01:36:38,916 --> 01:36:40,833
not even realizing what we're losing.

1007
01:36:41,791 --> 01:36:45,000
What we do know is this is this what kind

1008
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:45,833
of inspired you to do

1009
01:36:45,833 --> 01:36:46,958
your children's book.

1010
01:36:47,291 --> 01:36:47,958
You just came out.

1011
01:36:49,666 --> 01:36:52,208
Of course, yeah, so at the time it was it

1012
01:36:52,208 --> 01:36:53,791
was a very intense time of my life where

1013
01:36:53,791 --> 01:36:55,583
I was living in Northern Peru was

1014
01:36:55,583 --> 01:36:57,833
starting my first research with a

1015
01:36:57,833 --> 01:37:00,458
fisherman smooth hammerheads and I have a

1016
01:37:00,458 --> 01:37:02,041
very close friend who was also starting

1017
01:37:02,041 --> 01:37:03,083
an NGO for environmental

1018
01:37:03,083 --> 01:37:04,208
education with children.

1019
01:37:05,291 --> 01:37:07,875
And a key person at that point in my life

1020
01:37:07,875 --> 01:37:11,458
was Kathy. So this is the book and she's

1021
01:37:11,458 --> 01:37:14,500
one of the co-authors. So that is a very

1022
01:37:14,500 --> 01:37:16,500
special person in my life because she

1023
01:37:16,500 --> 01:37:17,875
used to be the person who take

1024
01:37:17,875 --> 01:37:19,250
care of me when I was little.

1025
01:37:20,291 --> 01:37:23,625
So those summers, I was in total it does

1026
01:37:23,625 --> 01:37:25,708
having fun. She used to take care of me.

1027
01:37:25,708 --> 01:37:27,500
She was also younger. She was like 16

1028
01:37:27,500 --> 01:37:28,708
years old. So she was probably her

1029
01:37:28,708 --> 01:37:33,333
vacations in high school and her mom used

1030
01:37:33,333 --> 01:37:37,083
to work for my grandmother. So we have

1031
01:37:37,083 --> 01:37:38,208
like transformation.

1032
01:37:39,291 --> 01:37:40,750
She's basically she's basically like

1033
01:37:40,750 --> 01:37:44,250
family to you at this point. Yes, of

1034
01:37:44,250 --> 01:37:47,208
course, it's like family. So she didn't

1035
01:37:47,208 --> 01:37:49,291
at that time she was like 16 years old.

1036
01:37:50,291 --> 01:37:51,708
She discovered that she loves children.

1037
01:37:52,250 --> 01:37:54,416
So after that, she studied to become a

1038
01:37:54,416 --> 01:37:57,750
teacher. So she was a great influence

1039
01:37:57,750 --> 01:37:59,291
when I was little because she was like,

1040
01:37:59,291 --> 01:38:00,166
you are not a happy

1041
01:38:00,166 --> 01:38:01,416
children if you're not there.

1042
01:38:02,291 --> 01:38:05,000
Where's the map? She was like that. No,

1043
01:38:05,833 --> 01:38:07,666
yeah, like that. That's how all like

1044
01:38:07,666 --> 01:38:09,208
everyone takes care of children should

1045
01:38:09,208 --> 01:38:12,583
embrace them to be wild and know and

1046
01:38:12,583 --> 01:38:14,833
forget about King. Just go on to your

1047
01:38:14,833 --> 01:38:15,916
wild stuff. So she was

1048
01:38:15,916 --> 01:38:16,750
like that all the time.

1049
01:38:17,541 --> 01:38:20,333
And then when I was passed on by she we

1050
01:38:20,333 --> 01:38:21,916
went through this and past she studied

1051
01:38:21,916 --> 01:38:25,208
she worked with children. And I was in

1052
01:38:25,208 --> 01:38:27,166
Northern Peru. So I invite her to become

1053
01:38:27,166 --> 01:38:29,500
part of this NGO because she was she was

1054
01:38:29,500 --> 01:38:30,375
the only one who was

1055
01:38:30,375 --> 01:38:32,041
actually an educator professionally.

1056
01:38:32,333 --> 01:38:34,750
And she's amazing with children. She's

1057
01:38:34,750 --> 01:38:36,750
those person that she just need to look

1058
01:38:36,750 --> 01:38:37,875
at the children to die and

1059
01:38:37,875 --> 01:38:38,250
the children will behave.

1060
01:38:38,291 --> 01:38:45,541
Our respect. Yeah. So I bring her to

1061
01:38:45,541 --> 01:38:47,541
where I was working. I bring him to the

1062
01:38:47,541 --> 01:38:50,625
landing site and she was like, Adri, this

1063
01:38:50,625 --> 01:38:53,166
is so sad. Like we need to do something.

1064
01:38:53,541 --> 01:38:55,708
So together we start developing these

1065
01:38:55,708 --> 01:38:57,083
children's book. And at the time I was

1066
01:38:57,083 --> 01:38:59,625
also working with the children from the

1067
01:38:59,625 --> 01:39:01,833
fishery communities. So that's how the

1068
01:39:01,833 --> 01:39:05,291
story started to to develop. So this

1069
01:39:05,291 --> 01:39:06,458
story is basically, as you

1070
01:39:06,458 --> 01:39:07,291
can see, it's about the family.

1071
01:39:08,291 --> 01:39:09,375
And it's about the small hammerhead. So

1072
01:39:09,375 --> 01:39:12,333
it's basically the story of I will show

1073
01:39:12,333 --> 01:39:14,541
you a little bit. The story starts when

1074
01:39:14,541 --> 01:39:16,916
mom and dad are saying goodbye somewhere

1075
01:39:16,916 --> 01:39:18,000
of the Pacific Ocean.

1076
01:39:18,916 --> 01:39:20,625
Mom, of course, is pregnant and she

1077
01:39:20,625 --> 01:39:22,541
arrives to this beautiful place in

1078
01:39:22,541 --> 01:39:24,541
Northern Peru. Actually, this is the

1079
01:39:24,541 --> 01:39:26,750
place where I close to the island that I

1080
01:39:26,750 --> 01:39:27,708
went the first time I went

1081
01:39:27,708 --> 01:39:29,083
fishing with the fishermen.

1082
01:39:30,291 --> 01:39:31,750
And then she has this very productive

1083
01:39:31,750 --> 01:39:35,541
ecosystem to inverse and she gets birth.

1084
01:39:36,333 --> 01:39:37,500
And then, of course,

1085
01:39:37,500 --> 01:39:38,333
there's the fisheries.

1086
01:39:39,666 --> 01:39:42,166
So the book doesn't ever mention the

1087
01:39:42,166 --> 01:39:45,083
nets. It's just a shadow. So these two

1088
01:39:45,083 --> 01:39:47,666
little children, baby sharks start like

1089
01:39:47,666 --> 01:39:48,708
looking for their mom.

1090
01:39:49,666 --> 01:39:52,041
And they met all these characters. You

1091
01:39:52,041 --> 01:39:54,333
can still see all the parts of the shark.

1092
01:39:55,208 --> 01:39:57,958
So they start looking for their mom where

1093
01:39:57,958 --> 01:40:00,541
the shadow has taken her.

1094
01:40:00,875 --> 01:40:02,666
So they needed a mako shark, the

1095
01:40:02,666 --> 01:40:05,958
treasure, the blue shark. And they

1096
01:40:05,958 --> 01:40:09,250
decided to make this hidden place. That's

1097
01:40:09,250 --> 01:40:10,250
why it is called it in Spanish.

1098
01:40:10,291 --> 01:40:13,333
It's a hidden place to escape from

1099
01:40:13,333 --> 01:40:16,583
humans. But then the connection comes

1100
01:40:16,583 --> 01:40:17,583
back because there's

1101
01:40:17,583 --> 01:40:18,791
this marine biologist.

1102
01:40:20,250 --> 01:40:23,458
I will show you here. And that's how they

1103
01:40:23,458 --> 01:40:27,291
met again to rebuild that loss connection

1104
01:40:27,291 --> 01:40:29,250
between the marine world.

1105
01:40:29,291 --> 01:40:31,875
I'm going to tell you the end, but it's a

1106
01:40:31,875 --> 01:40:36,458
story about the impact. Yeah, it's the

1107
01:40:36,458 --> 01:40:39,625
impact that human had on sharks,

1108
01:40:39,625 --> 01:40:41,125
especially overfishing is

1109
01:40:41,125 --> 01:40:42,833
the main thread in the world.

1110
01:40:42,833 --> 01:40:45,958
We all know that and how sharks decided

1111
01:40:45,958 --> 01:40:48,541
to just leave humans and hide on this

1112
01:40:48,541 --> 01:40:50,041
place. But then humans were starving

1113
01:40:50,041 --> 01:40:51,250
because there was no fishery.

1114
01:40:52,291 --> 01:40:54,208
And the sharks were like overpopulating

1115
01:40:54,208 --> 01:40:56,083
this hidden place. So they need to come

1116
01:40:56,083 --> 01:40:58,708
back to regain this equilibrium between

1117
01:40:58,708 --> 01:41:00,833
the human world and the ocean world.

1118
01:41:01,958 --> 01:41:04,458
So, yeah, the book was basically to try

1119
01:41:04,458 --> 01:41:09,833
to educate. I'm a big champion of we need

1120
01:41:09,833 --> 01:41:13,208
to invest more in education. It's always

1121
01:41:13,208 --> 01:41:15,291
going to be on the long term. But I think

1122
01:41:15,291 --> 01:41:16,416
it's the only sustainable

1123
01:41:16,416 --> 01:41:18,250
way to get what we want to be.

1124
01:41:18,833 --> 01:41:21,000
Mm hmm. That's that's great. Now you had

1125
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:23,333
now did you finally I know you had that

1126
01:41:23,333 --> 01:41:24,791
book. Who did the illustrations for the

1127
01:41:24,791 --> 01:41:26,250
book, by the way, the first.

1128
01:41:26,291 --> 01:41:29,125
Margo stories know Kathy was because

1129
01:41:29,125 --> 01:41:31,416
Kathy did a master's in literature,

1130
01:41:31,416 --> 01:41:33,708
children literature. So she was doing a

1131
01:41:33,708 --> 01:41:36,208
master. She made that illustrator. She he

1132
01:41:36,208 --> 01:41:39,000
is amazing person. And he works basically

1133
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:40,000
with children's folk.

1134
01:41:40,500 --> 01:41:42,375
You can tell that how the characters are

1135
01:41:42,375 --> 01:41:45,750
all these personification of humans. He

1136
01:41:45,750 --> 01:41:47,166
did a great job. So, yeah,

1137
01:41:47,166 --> 01:41:48,250
he was the key person to that.

1138
01:41:48,291 --> 01:41:51,583
And I know when I know we talked when I

1139
01:41:51,583 --> 01:41:53,458
was when I was down in South America, we

1140
01:41:53,458 --> 01:41:55,291
were doing the series. We'll talk about

1141
01:41:55,291 --> 01:41:58,166
here. How did you how did you get funding

1142
01:41:58,166 --> 01:42:01,250
for the to get to print the

1143
01:42:01,250 --> 01:42:02,250
books for the for the kids?

1144
01:42:02,291 --> 01:42:06,250
It has been a 10 year project on and off

1145
01:42:06,250 --> 01:42:08,791
sleeping a little time because we were

1146
01:42:08,791 --> 01:42:11,125
doing other stuff. And I got a funding

1147
01:42:11,125 --> 01:42:13,666
for that. Like it was all basically me

1148
01:42:13,666 --> 01:42:15,916
and Kathy putting all these energy. We

1149
01:42:15,916 --> 01:42:17,791
got a little funding from Ruford

1150
01:42:17,791 --> 01:42:20,250
Foundation to pay for that illustrator.

1151
01:42:20,291 --> 01:42:22,833
And then at the end we decided to print

1152
01:42:22,833 --> 01:42:26,708
ourselves with our own money because we

1153
01:42:26,708 --> 01:42:28,916
just wanted to see it alive. It couldn't

1154
01:42:28,916 --> 01:42:32,875
stay longer. It was too long. So, yeah,

1155
01:42:32,875 --> 01:42:35,541
you have to bet for yourself. You know, I

1156
01:42:35,541 --> 01:42:37,041
have the money. Kathy had the money.

1157
01:42:37,041 --> 01:42:38,000
Kathy now lives in Germany

1158
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:39,250
and she works with children.

1159
01:42:40,291 --> 01:42:42,666
So we come to us and let's make it alive.

1160
01:42:42,666 --> 01:42:44,833
We need to put our money. Let's do it.

1161
01:42:44,833 --> 01:42:46,500
And I don't regret it. We'll come back

1162
01:42:46,500 --> 01:42:48,625
and the whole point is just to share

1163
01:42:48,625 --> 01:42:51,833
this. So the idea is just for every book

1164
01:42:51,833 --> 01:42:53,791
that it gets self-special in our people

1165
01:42:53,791 --> 01:42:55,958
have a higher capacity to spend money.

1166
01:42:56,541 --> 01:42:57,958
And so we have a book goes to a fishery

1167
01:42:57,958 --> 01:42:59,541
community. We're starting with northern

1168
01:42:59,541 --> 01:43:01,291
Peru, but the day is to go all along the

1169
01:43:01,291 --> 01:43:03,875
coast because those are the children who

1170
01:43:03,875 --> 01:43:05,916
need that information. We went on

1171
01:43:05,916 --> 01:43:09,375
December to keep books as a donation to

1172
01:43:09,375 --> 01:43:11,125
the fishery community where this project

1173
01:43:11,125 --> 01:43:12,125
started when I started

1174
01:43:12,125 --> 01:43:13,375
doing my research as well.

1175
01:43:14,291 --> 01:43:16,458
And this picture I made it just like

1176
01:43:16,458 --> 01:43:18,875
never says peru in the whole book, but

1177
01:43:18,875 --> 01:43:21,625
for me the most that you can tell is peru

1178
01:43:21,625 --> 01:43:23,333
is because of the ecosystem. We're very

1179
01:43:23,333 --> 01:43:25,375
perfectionist with Marcos. Marcos doesn't

1180
01:43:25,375 --> 01:43:26,625
look like this species. You

1181
01:43:26,625 --> 01:43:27,791
need to put this and that.

1182
01:43:28,208 --> 01:43:29,666
So this is the island that is called

1183
01:43:29,666 --> 01:43:32,416
Lobos de Tierra, Lobos de Apuera. That is

1184
01:43:32,416 --> 01:43:33,708
a very special place. It's like the

1185
01:43:33,708 --> 01:43:36,041
Galapagos, say, of Peru where there's a

1186
01:43:36,041 --> 01:43:38,000
huge amount of different species of

1187
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:39,250
sharks aggregated there.

1188
01:43:39,625 --> 01:43:41,791
When we did a presentation of the book in

1189
01:43:41,791 --> 01:43:43,583
northern Peru, I was like, this is Lobos

1190
01:43:43,583 --> 01:43:46,000
de Tierra. So excited that island and

1191
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:47,041
they were like, what's that? I never

1192
01:43:47,041 --> 01:43:48,791
heard that place before. And I was like,

1193
01:43:48,791 --> 01:43:51,291
oh, my God, these children will become

1194
01:43:51,291 --> 01:43:53,125
fishermen one day. And they don't even

1195
01:43:53,125 --> 01:43:55,083
know this island. It's it's

1196
01:43:55,083 --> 01:43:56,375
not visible from the coast.

1197
01:43:56,833 --> 01:43:57,000
Right.

1198
01:43:57,291 --> 01:44:01,333
But that level of lack of environmental

1199
01:44:01,333 --> 01:44:03,666
culture identity, they have. Yeah, yeah.

1200
01:44:04,250 --> 01:44:06,125
Makes me more engaged to

1201
01:44:06,125 --> 01:44:07,250
bring that message to them.

1202
01:44:07,958 --> 01:44:09,833
That's really an amazing story. You're

1203
01:44:09,833 --> 01:44:11,583
you're you're so passionate about this

1204
01:44:11,583 --> 01:44:13,416
and connecting with the kids that you and

1205
01:44:13,416 --> 01:44:15,375
kind of just basically fund itself,

1206
01:44:15,375 --> 01:44:16,541
funded the whole thing.

1207
01:44:17,541 --> 01:44:18,625
If there's anybody out there listening

1208
01:44:18,625 --> 01:44:20,750
that has some money wants to help further

1209
01:44:20,750 --> 01:44:23,625
the cause, please contact Adrian. I'm

1210
01:44:23,625 --> 01:44:25,208
sure they got plenty of children in

1211
01:44:25,208 --> 01:44:27,208
northern Peru. I'd like to still get

1212
01:44:27,208 --> 01:44:28,208
copies of that book. They

1213
01:44:28,208 --> 01:44:29,250
may do another print run.

1214
01:44:29,291 --> 01:44:31,791
Yeah, we're going to work. Today's to to

1215
01:44:31,791 --> 01:44:35,416
work with a school. So I want we want to

1216
01:44:35,416 --> 01:44:36,833
work with the schools instead of working

1217
01:44:36,833 --> 01:44:38,666
with the children directly because the

1218
01:44:38,666 --> 01:44:40,583
story has some message that it will be

1219
01:44:40,583 --> 01:44:41,916
much more efficient.

1220
01:44:41,916 --> 01:44:44,625
Of course, work through institutional

1221
01:44:44,625 --> 01:44:47,250
education. So yeah, we're getting there.

1222
01:44:47,500 --> 01:44:49,625
I know it's a project that was last 10

1223
01:44:49,625 --> 01:44:52,625
years and it's going to last. I want more

1224
01:44:52,625 --> 01:44:54,583
books. So it is just a beginning.

1225
01:44:56,291 --> 01:44:58,125
Have you have you thought about selling

1226
01:44:58,125 --> 01:45:01,708
some of the books on like a on a bigger

1227
01:45:01,708 --> 01:45:04,916
platform, like internationally for other

1228
01:45:04,916 --> 01:45:07,000
Spanish speaking countries so that they

1229
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:08,708
can get not only an idea of Peru, but

1230
01:45:08,708 --> 01:45:10,750
just on the books and then use that money

1231
01:45:10,750 --> 01:45:13,750
to fund the books for the

1232
01:45:13,750 --> 01:45:15,000
kids and for the schools.

1233
01:45:16,708 --> 01:45:19,416
Yes, the book, although was based in

1234
01:45:19,416 --> 01:45:21,708
Peru, most of the species are worldwide

1235
01:45:21,708 --> 01:45:24,166
now like the makola blue shirt, the hand.

1236
01:45:24,416 --> 01:45:28,458
It's the same story repeats over and over

1237
01:45:28,458 --> 01:45:29,333
again all over the

1238
01:45:29,333 --> 01:45:30,250
world, like overfishing.

1239
01:45:30,291 --> 01:45:33,708
You know, it's the same story. And yes,

1240
01:45:33,708 --> 01:45:35,708
the idea is to translate it in start with

1241
01:45:35,708 --> 01:45:38,750
English, German since got these working

1242
01:45:38,750 --> 01:45:42,500
there. Yeah, we want to grow, but I'm

1243
01:45:42,500 --> 01:45:44,833
doing my PhD. Yeah, it's a little busy.

1244
01:45:45,500 --> 01:45:48,833
Yeah, I don't have any pressure to make

1245
01:45:48,833 --> 01:45:50,166
it big from one day to

1246
01:45:50,166 --> 01:45:51,791
another. And I still have my life.

1247
01:45:52,541 --> 01:45:55,291
Yes, that's the idea. We want to keep

1248
01:45:55,291 --> 01:45:57,916
working on that work in Lima, let go to

1249
01:45:57,916 --> 01:45:58,708
the fishery commits and

1250
01:45:58,708 --> 01:46:00,625
then span to other places.

1251
01:46:01,916 --> 01:46:03,208
So why don't you talk a little bit about

1252
01:46:03,208 --> 01:46:05,375
what's your about your PhD project? Have

1253
01:46:05,375 --> 01:46:08,000
you used to work on your proposal or

1254
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:09,083
where you at with that now?

1255
01:46:10,583 --> 01:46:13,416
I started one year ago will be by the end

1256
01:46:13,416 --> 01:46:16,291
of March. And so in three years in

1257
01:46:16,291 --> 01:46:18,583
Australia, it's so fast. So I have been

1258
01:46:18,583 --> 01:46:20,458
trying to move forward as

1259
01:46:20,458 --> 01:46:22,625
fast as I can every single week.

1260
01:46:23,333 --> 01:46:26,500
So, yeah, it got approved last year on

1261
01:46:26,500 --> 01:46:28,541
November, the confirmation of candidate.

1262
01:46:28,833 --> 01:46:32,500
So the project is more based on because I

1263
01:46:32,500 --> 01:46:33,250
start very focused in Peru.

1264
01:46:33,291 --> 01:46:35,458
But in the last two years, I have been

1265
01:46:35,458 --> 01:46:37,666
working for this international project

1266
01:46:37,666 --> 01:46:40,541
that is run by the IUC and shark

1267
01:46:40,541 --> 01:46:42,833
specialist group. So it's basically a

1268
01:46:42,833 --> 01:46:45,041
project that is mapping critical shark

1269
01:46:45,041 --> 01:46:47,416
habitat all around the world.

1270
01:46:47,416 --> 01:46:50,250
Let's just come back to your thesis. Why

1271
01:46:50,250 --> 01:46:51,250
don't you talk a little bit about this?

1272
01:46:51,500 --> 01:46:53,250
This is the ISRA, which is important.

1273
01:46:53,750 --> 01:46:55,250
Yeah, you want. Yeah.

1274
01:46:55,291 --> 01:46:57,125
Yeah, I want you to talk about that a

1275
01:46:57,125 --> 01:46:58,541
little bit. We'll come back to your PhD,

1276
01:46:58,541 --> 01:47:00,791
how that's kind of interrelated.

1277
01:47:01,125 --> 01:47:03,083
Actually, the book is based on an ISRA

1278
01:47:03,083 --> 01:47:06,083
because we have reproductive areas where

1279
01:47:06,083 --> 01:47:06,958
the shark no matter

1280
01:47:06,958 --> 01:47:08,041
comes in and gives birth.

1281
01:47:08,291 --> 01:47:09,750
We have feeding areas where the sharks

1282
01:47:09,750 --> 01:47:13,125
are eating humble squid. So yeah, is

1283
01:47:13,125 --> 01:47:15,416
robotic basically is important shark and

1284
01:47:15,416 --> 01:47:17,583
ray area. So these are places that are

1285
01:47:17,583 --> 01:47:20,166
important for sharks for critical life

1286
01:47:20,166 --> 01:47:21,666
stages, like reproduction

1287
01:47:21,666 --> 01:47:23,958
feeding movement as well.

1288
01:47:24,291 --> 01:47:32,291
So we have a very interesting question.

1289
01:47:32,291 --> 01:47:34,250
What is your purpose?

1290
01:47:34,250 --> 01:47:36,500
So I was lucky enough.

1291
01:47:36,500 --> 01:47:37,041
I think so.

1292
01:47:37,541 --> 01:47:38,833
Something's are in your cards.

1293
01:47:38,833 --> 01:47:39,291
I think so.

1294
01:47:40,833 --> 01:47:42,166
Because they open this

1295
01:47:42,166 --> 01:47:44,041
position to work on it.

1296
01:47:44,291 --> 01:47:46,250
We're just starting to map these areas.

1297
01:47:46,583 --> 01:47:48,041
And the first region was the eastern

1298
01:47:48,041 --> 01:47:49,666
Pacific, from Mexico to Chile.

1299
01:47:50,250 --> 01:47:53,750
And I remember applying. And then I was like been very prepared for this. I was in the work of the sea. And then I was like, okay, so I'm in the water. So I was like, oh, I'm not in the water. I'm not in the water. So I was like, okay, so I'm not in the water. And then I was like, okay, I'm in the water. So I was like, okay, so I was like, okay, I'm in the water. And I remember applying and then I was

1300
01:47:53,750 --> 01:47:56,083
like being very ambitious, of course, but

1301
01:47:56,083 --> 01:47:57,458
I was like, oh, I want to

1302
01:47:57,458 --> 01:47:58,708
really be part of this team.

1303
01:47:58,708 --> 01:47:59,333
It sounds amazing.

1304
01:47:59,833 --> 01:48:02,583
And the leader of the project said, OK,

1305
01:48:02,583 --> 01:48:04,416
we didn't we feel in the position you

1306
01:48:04,416 --> 01:48:06,791
were, but we might be still interesting

1307
01:48:06,791 --> 01:48:08,875
because we're starting in your region and

1308
01:48:08,875 --> 01:48:10,166
we need someone from that region.

1309
01:48:10,916 --> 01:48:13,166
So that's why I got the job and it has

1310
01:48:13,166 --> 01:48:14,250
been such a great adventure.

1311
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:16,791
A lot of hard work, of

1312
01:48:16,791 --> 01:48:18,375
course, that comes with that.

1313
01:48:18,750 --> 01:48:21,166
But it's great because you get to know

1314
01:48:21,166 --> 01:48:22,666
basically the whole world.

1315
01:48:23,000 --> 01:48:24,041
You go region by region and you

1316
01:48:24,041 --> 01:48:26,875
understand what is the ecosystem about

1317
01:48:26,875 --> 01:48:28,458
the habit as a different

1318
01:48:28,458 --> 01:48:30,041
species that a region has.

1319
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:32,583
And very interesting, you get to know the

1320
01:48:32,583 --> 01:48:34,708
people behind those because we're not

1321
01:48:34,708 --> 01:48:36,916
going on a boat looking for those

1322
01:48:36,916 --> 01:48:37,958
habitats will be great,

1323
01:48:37,958 --> 01:48:39,375
but it will take decades.

1324
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:41,875
We are working with our regional experts.

1325
01:48:43,083 --> 01:48:44,916
So, for example, in the first region, we

1326
01:48:44,916 --> 01:48:47,958
invited 30 around 30 persons to this

1327
01:48:47,958 --> 01:48:49,958
workshop to identify critical habitat.

1328
01:48:50,208 --> 01:48:52,500
So it's great because you also get to

1329
01:48:52,500 --> 01:48:55,000
know the people behind all this research

1330
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:56,625
and all of them are very

1331
01:48:56,625 --> 01:48:58,250
passionate about their work.

1332
01:48:59,875 --> 01:49:01,916
So it's amazing. You really build a good

1333
01:49:01,916 --> 01:49:03,625
network of contacts around the world.

1334
01:49:04,458 --> 01:49:06,333
So that's how I started

1335
01:49:06,333 --> 01:49:07,500
with the Israel project.

1336
01:49:08,500 --> 01:49:11,125
And then from that, I decided to do my

1337
01:49:11,125 --> 01:49:13,000
PhD based on that project.

1338
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:17,458
So I have moved from Peru to Australia

1339
01:49:17,458 --> 01:49:19,250
and now my focus of research

1340
01:49:19,250 --> 01:49:20,541
is that in the West Pacific.

1341
01:49:22,583 --> 01:49:24,666
And I have one chapter that is going to

1342
01:49:24,666 --> 01:49:26,666
be more based on the field for Timor

1343
01:49:26,666 --> 01:49:29,000
Leste that is my advisor.

1344
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:31,208
Yeah, nice. Yeah. Yeah.

1345
01:49:31,500 --> 01:49:33,250
One of the air. Yeah. Timor Leste is one

1346
01:49:33,250 --> 01:49:34,583
of the ones who talked a little bit about

1347
01:49:34,583 --> 01:49:35,958
that in a couple of other episodes.

1348
01:49:36,708 --> 01:49:38,125
And we'll come back, talk about that in

1349
01:49:38,125 --> 01:49:40,541
just a moment. But what do you have? What

1350
01:49:40,541 --> 01:49:41,708
are your other chapters about?

1351
01:49:43,041 --> 01:49:45,750
So it's it's a focus in Israel's

1352
01:49:45,750 --> 01:49:48,666
important areas in the West Pacific with

1353
01:49:48,666 --> 01:49:50,541
a component of citizen science.

1354
01:49:51,541 --> 01:49:53,125
Because something that I was discovering

1355
01:49:53,125 --> 01:49:56,333
is, again, that a lot of these areas are

1356
01:49:56,333 --> 01:49:58,500
reported by divers by fishermen.

1357
01:49:59,625 --> 01:50:03,458
So it links the importance of society in

1358
01:50:03,458 --> 01:50:06,541
identifying these areas and the role that

1359
01:50:06,541 --> 01:50:09,375
society has in preserving these regions.

1360
01:50:09,666 --> 01:50:11,500
No, and goes back to that

1361
01:50:11,500 --> 01:50:13,125
work because it's funny.

1362
01:50:13,333 --> 01:50:16,083
I study marine biology because I didn't

1363
01:50:16,083 --> 01:50:17,958
want to have anything to do with humans.

1364
01:50:18,250 --> 01:50:20,875
I didn't like that much. I was also much

1365
01:50:20,875 --> 01:50:22,208
more myself in nature.

1366
01:50:23,041 --> 01:50:25,541
But on the way I discovered if I want to

1367
01:50:25,541 --> 01:50:27,125
preserve nature, I have to work with

1368
01:50:27,125 --> 01:50:29,166
people. People are that conservation.

1369
01:50:29,500 --> 01:50:30,958
It's all about you want to change the

1370
01:50:30,958 --> 01:50:33,041
behavior of a species. You want to change

1371
01:50:33,041 --> 01:50:34,083
the behavior of a human

1372
01:50:34,083 --> 01:50:35,416
to preserve that species.

1373
01:50:36,541 --> 01:50:40,000
So I think that it makes all the pieces

1374
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:41,416
together to work, have a

1375
01:50:41,416 --> 01:50:43,000
focus more in citizen science.

1376
01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:45,166
And now it's a huge thing. I was reading

1377
01:50:45,166 --> 01:50:47,625
the other day that we save millions.

1378
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:50,625
I don't know how many millions of dollars

1379
01:50:50,625 --> 01:50:52,791
every year because of citizen science.

1380
01:50:53,416 --> 01:50:54,791
And many interests are

1381
01:50:54,791 --> 01:50:56,375
just based in that knowledge.

1382
01:50:57,208 --> 01:50:59,541
And working with them helps to preserve

1383
01:50:59,541 --> 01:51:01,916
those important, critical habits.

1384
01:51:02,541 --> 01:51:04,083
How do you collect the data for the

1385
01:51:04,083 --> 01:51:06,083
citizen science, like for the reports? Is

1386
01:51:06,083 --> 01:51:07,875
it through an app or is it through like

1387
01:51:07,875 --> 01:51:09,500
they email you or is it through like the

1388
01:51:09,500 --> 01:51:11,750
dive centers or how is that done?

1389
01:51:12,958 --> 01:51:14,791
It varies a lot. They're very well

1390
01:51:14,791 --> 01:51:16,750
established projects all around the

1391
01:51:16,750 --> 01:51:19,250
world, but it's basically based in well

1392
01:51:19,250 --> 01:51:21,125
sharks and manta rays, more and more

1393
01:51:21,125 --> 01:51:22,125
charismatic species

1394
01:51:22,125 --> 01:51:23,333
where people go diving.

1395
01:51:23,875 --> 01:51:25,541
They're very well established citizen

1396
01:51:25,541 --> 01:51:26,750
science project that are

1397
01:51:26,750 --> 01:51:28,333
being like 10, 15 years.

1398
01:51:29,541 --> 01:51:32,541
But there's also more informal. So most

1399
01:51:32,541 --> 01:51:34,375
of the data that we gather, it comes from

1400
01:51:34,375 --> 01:51:36,416
informal. It's more like ecological

1401
01:51:36,416 --> 01:51:38,541
knowledge that people gather through

1402
01:51:38,541 --> 01:51:39,750
their lives and they pass through that.

1403
01:51:39,791 --> 01:51:43,041
So we do validate that with pictures.

1404
01:51:43,791 --> 01:51:45,416
Now that we know that's suspicious, it's

1405
01:51:45,416 --> 01:51:47,000
not only your word. We need to prove that

1406
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:48,041
with pictures. But these

1407
01:51:48,041 --> 01:51:49,458
days, everyone has a phone.

1408
01:51:50,958 --> 01:51:52,333
So it's very easy to gather that

1409
01:51:52,333 --> 01:51:55,750
information. And people do bring very

1410
01:51:55,750 --> 01:51:57,000
interesting information.

1411
01:51:57,458 --> 01:52:00,083
There's when we're working on the New

1412
01:52:00,083 --> 01:52:02,375
Zealand and Pacific islands, there were

1413
01:52:02,375 --> 01:52:05,208
these places where only divers,

1414
01:52:05,583 --> 01:52:06,916
recreational divers have

1415
01:52:06,916 --> 01:52:07,750
been four times in their life.

1416
01:52:08,750 --> 01:52:11,833
There's no research. Nothing has besides

1417
01:52:11,833 --> 01:52:13,875
them. There's nothing. And those people

1418
01:52:13,875 --> 01:52:16,333
were key. Twenty five those areas. They

1419
01:52:16,333 --> 01:52:18,416
go there and they see a hundred sharks.

1420
01:52:19,625 --> 01:52:20,708
Probably because there's no even

1421
01:52:20,708 --> 01:52:22,750
fisheries there. So it will be so

1422
01:52:22,750 --> 01:52:25,000
expensive to get there. But divers are

1423
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:27,250
getting all over the world to go and die.

1424
01:52:28,083 --> 01:52:29,708
So it's very cool

1425
01:52:29,708 --> 01:52:30,750
information that you gather.

1426
01:52:30,791 --> 01:52:33,750
Well, one of the chapters in your thesis

1427
01:52:33,750 --> 01:52:36,625
was kind of a kind of a novel thing in

1428
01:52:36,625 --> 01:52:40,375
that this part of this project we'll talk

1429
01:52:40,375 --> 01:52:41,875
about here that Adrian

1430
01:52:41,875 --> 01:52:43,708
has been involved with me.

1431
01:52:43,708 --> 01:52:47,291
But we went to one of the episodes on the

1432
01:52:47,291 --> 01:52:50,666
Searching for Lost Sharks series on

1433
01:52:50,666 --> 01:52:53,000
YouTube that we just launched is we went

1434
01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:54,708
to a team or less the last year.

1435
01:52:54,791 --> 01:52:56,541
I've talked to a couple on the podcast a

1436
01:52:56,541 --> 01:52:57,750
little bit about it. We talked with the

1437
01:52:57,750 --> 01:53:00,875
niece about it. But that was a completely

1438
01:53:00,875 --> 01:53:03,125
unknown area. We just went and explored.

1439
01:53:03,875 --> 01:53:05,500
And now you're going to work on one of

1440
01:53:05,500 --> 01:53:07,291
your chapters for your thesis is going to

1441
01:53:07,291 --> 01:53:09,958
be on that. You want to share what's your

1442
01:53:09,958 --> 01:53:11,541
idea from the start.

1443
01:53:12,208 --> 01:53:15,333
That's true. That's true. I'm in this

1444
01:53:15,333 --> 01:53:17,208
area. No, it's still the same

1445
01:53:17,208 --> 01:53:21,041
problematic. No. But then I was like, OK,

1446
01:53:21,041 --> 01:53:23,125
I don't want to do all this space because

1447
01:53:23,125 --> 01:53:23,750
all this information comes from this.

1448
01:53:24,750 --> 01:53:27,416
This project. But then they was like, oh,

1449
01:53:27,625 --> 01:53:28,833
you know, let's say it's like this

1450
01:53:28,833 --> 01:53:31,666
unknown place and it's an hour flight

1451
01:53:31,666 --> 01:53:33,083
from where I live in Darby.

1452
01:53:33,750 --> 01:53:35,291
And actually, more or less is very

1453
01:53:35,291 --> 01:53:37,500
special because it's in the middle of one

1454
01:53:37,500 --> 01:53:38,916
of the most diverse regions

1455
01:53:38,916 --> 01:53:40,250
in the world for sharking.

1456
01:53:40,541 --> 01:53:41,916
That two countries that are for the

1457
01:53:41,916 --> 01:53:44,583
highest numbers are Indonesia and

1458
01:53:44,583 --> 01:53:47,291
Australia. And Timor Leste is just in the

1459
01:53:47,291 --> 01:53:49,458
middle. Right. And they

1460
01:53:49,458 --> 01:53:50,375
was like, there's nothing.

1461
01:53:51,041 --> 01:53:56,791
Oh, it's like me. I knew who my go to

1462
01:53:56,791 --> 01:54:01,125
person was going to. Yeah. It's just

1463
01:54:01,125 --> 01:54:02,958
right in the right. Right. The coral

1464
01:54:02,958 --> 01:54:04,291
triangle. It's like one of the most

1465
01:54:04,291 --> 01:54:06,041
diverse areas in the world. And nobody's

1466
01:54:06,041 --> 01:54:08,833
ever gone there. And when I had a chance

1467
01:54:08,833 --> 01:54:10,250
to go last year, I just

1468
01:54:10,250 --> 01:54:11,750
like it was quite one of these.

1469
01:54:11,750 --> 01:54:14,083
It was kind of an interesting thing

1470
01:54:14,083 --> 01:54:16,125
because you ended up going to Australia

1471
01:54:16,125 --> 01:54:17,875
and then I was and I ended up going to

1472
01:54:17,875 --> 01:54:19,500
Australia. I said, hey, what about let's

1473
01:54:19,500 --> 01:54:21,333
go to check out Timor Leste and see if we

1474
01:54:21,333 --> 01:54:23,166
can do something up there. And what do

1475
01:54:23,166 --> 01:54:24,333
you know? Now it's going to be part of a

1476
01:54:24,333 --> 01:54:28,125
thesis. I love it. I love it. I say that

1477
01:54:28,125 --> 01:54:30,166
to all you students listening out there,

1478
01:54:30,166 --> 01:54:31,500
young people starting out. You wonder how

1479
01:54:31,500 --> 01:54:33,166
things happen. Well, this is how

1480
01:54:33,166 --> 01:54:35,333
something happens. It was somebody knew

1481
01:54:35,333 --> 01:54:36,666
somebody that said, hey, Dave, why don't

1482
01:54:36,666 --> 01:54:38,333
you check this out? And I'm like, this

1483
01:54:38,333 --> 01:54:40,166
should be a good thesis project. I know

1484
01:54:40,166 --> 01:54:40,750
the perfect student I'm going to get for this project.

1485
01:54:41,750 --> 01:54:46,833
But I think also just to go back to when

1486
01:54:46,833 --> 01:54:48,791
you started the beginning of like why you

1487
01:54:48,791 --> 01:54:50,291
love nature so much and you're always

1488
01:54:50,291 --> 01:54:52,416
going and hopping into adventures like

1489
01:54:52,416 --> 01:54:55,250
going to a place like Timor Lesty. That's

1490
01:54:55,250 --> 01:54:57,041
not well known from a biological

1491
01:54:57,041 --> 01:54:59,500
standpoint, especially in the ocean. It

1492
01:54:59,500 --> 01:55:01,125
kind of takes someone who's adventurous

1493
01:55:01,125 --> 01:55:03,500
to be like, hey, let's go to this place.

1494
01:55:03,500 --> 01:55:05,208
Let's let's check it out. Let's see what

1495
01:55:05,208 --> 01:55:07,583
we can find. And then ended up being part

1496
01:55:07,583 --> 01:55:09,041
of your thesis because it's such an

1497
01:55:09,041 --> 01:55:10,750
important aspect. And I think I think you're really going to scratch that.

1498
01:55:11,750 --> 01:55:13,916
Scratch the surface when it comes to this

1499
01:55:13,916 --> 01:55:16,375
in the future. And but it really goes

1500
01:55:16,375 --> 01:55:18,666
towards your personality of let's jump in

1501
01:55:18,666 --> 01:55:21,208
feet first and let's see what's going on.

1502
01:55:21,208 --> 01:55:22,291
I mean, we've seen it throughout the

1503
01:55:22,291 --> 01:55:24,375
entire episode where you talk about

1504
01:55:24,375 --> 01:55:26,791
jumping into the water. You're taking a

1505
01:55:26,791 --> 01:55:30,333
small boat for days at a time and not

1506
01:55:30,333 --> 01:55:32,708
having washrooms and facilities. Not an

1507
01:55:32,708 --> 01:55:34,541
easy boat ride. And then now going to

1508
01:55:34,541 --> 01:55:38,583
Timor Lesty, which is like newly explored

1509
01:55:38,583 --> 01:55:40,750
by shark scientists now.

1510
01:55:40,791 --> 01:55:43,500
So I think that's a kind of a recurring

1511
01:55:43,500 --> 01:55:45,958
theme in your story. I think we've seen

1512
01:55:45,958 --> 01:55:48,958
right. Yeah, I'm super excited. It's

1513
01:55:48,958 --> 01:55:51,000
going to be another level of challenge

1514
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:53,083
because I'm not from that place. I don't

1515
01:55:53,083 --> 01:55:54,958
even know the language. I'm going to work

1516
01:55:54,958 --> 01:55:57,750
with projects, ongoing projects in that

1517
01:55:57,750 --> 01:55:59,750
island collaboration for me. It's key.

1518
01:55:59,750 --> 01:56:03,791
But I'm so eager. No, I'm going to start

1519
01:56:03,791 --> 01:56:06,166
going into the field. This year, I

1520
01:56:06,166 --> 01:56:08,458
actually got a lead good funding from

1521
01:56:08,458 --> 01:56:11,166
services foundation key to keep that

1522
01:56:11,166 --> 01:56:13,500
project ongoing and support from

1523
01:56:13,500 --> 01:56:14,541
Charlotte's our university

1524
01:56:14,541 --> 01:56:16,750
to start going onto the field.

1525
01:56:16,958 --> 01:56:19,416
And mostly work with a fisherman and a

1526
01:56:19,416 --> 01:56:21,333
diving community. Those are the ones who

1527
01:56:21,333 --> 01:56:24,333
are out there and also but work with

1528
01:56:24,333 --> 01:56:26,833
ongoing projects that ski. If I'm not

1529
01:56:26,833 --> 01:56:28,583
from the area, I need to work with.

1530
01:56:28,875 --> 01:56:31,750
Right. Yeah, that's super important.

1531
01:56:31,791 --> 01:56:34,250
I just want to talk about the series a

1532
01:56:34,250 --> 01:56:37,375
little bit since we got onto this now. We

1533
01:56:37,375 --> 01:56:39,416
had this was this was a save our seas

1534
01:56:39,416 --> 01:56:42,666
funded keystone grant that I had raise

1535
01:56:42,666 --> 01:56:45,416
awareness of what I call law sharks,

1536
01:56:45,416 --> 01:56:46,416
these little known species

1537
01:56:46,416 --> 01:56:47,458
that may be disappearing.

1538
01:56:48,291 --> 01:56:50,125
And the first episode came out the end of

1539
01:56:50,125 --> 01:56:52,583
January and we had Denise Sotomayor,

1540
01:56:52,916 --> 01:56:55,125
who's a friend and friend and colleague

1541
01:56:55,125 --> 01:56:57,166
of Adriana's and I actually met Denise

1542
01:56:57,166 --> 01:57:00,541
through Adriana and who's and she's been

1543
01:57:00,541 --> 01:57:03,875
filming the series and our first episode

1544
01:57:03,875 --> 01:57:05,625
just kind of introduce the series.

1545
01:57:05,791 --> 01:57:09,416
The new episode, which is just come out

1546
01:57:09,416 --> 01:57:12,791
our first place we went to went to

1547
01:57:12,791 --> 01:57:15,666
northern Peru and then and then Ecuador

1548
01:57:15,666 --> 01:57:19,250
and we're looking for a shark that nobody

1549
01:57:19,250 --> 01:57:20,708
has seen in over 60 years.

1550
01:57:20,791 --> 01:57:23,666
And that's kind of the point of the the

1551
01:57:23,666 --> 01:57:27,250
the project in the series on YouTube is

1552
01:57:27,250 --> 01:57:28,833
to raise awareness these things that

1553
01:57:28,833 --> 01:57:32,541
nobody's here's a species that we went to

1554
01:57:32,541 --> 01:57:33,958
northern Peru and to

1555
01:57:33,958 --> 01:57:35,625
Ecuador where this thing occurs.

1556
01:57:35,625 --> 01:57:38,791
We talked to the fisherman, you know,

1557
01:57:39,041 --> 01:57:40,791
they'd around to none of the younger guys

1558
01:57:40,791 --> 01:57:42,291
knew what this thing the shark was at

1559
01:57:42,291 --> 01:57:44,291
all. And only some of the older

1560
01:57:44,291 --> 01:57:45,583
fishermen, the older

1561
01:57:45,583 --> 01:57:46,750
fishermen knew what it was.

1562
01:57:46,791 --> 01:57:49,375
But the younger guys had no idea. And now

1563
01:57:49,375 --> 01:57:51,791
you have this shark that's disappearing.

1564
01:57:53,208 --> 01:57:55,041
And how do you feel? I mean, how do you

1565
01:57:55,041 --> 01:57:56,708
think about that when you think about

1566
01:57:56,708 --> 01:57:57,666
things like that, Adriana?

1567
01:57:58,000 --> 01:57:59,791
Because this first was like right in your

1568
01:57:59,791 --> 01:58:03,458
backyard in northern Peru. Yeah. And then

1569
01:58:03,458 --> 01:58:05,208
we go to Ecuador and it's going to be a

1570
01:58:05,208 --> 01:58:07,708
two part series just for this episode.

1571
01:58:07,958 --> 01:58:09,250
But how do you feel about like that?

1572
01:58:10,291 --> 01:58:13,041
I felt it was great to have you here. It

1573
01:58:13,041 --> 01:58:15,625
was such an honor to bring Dave Ebert to

1574
01:58:15,625 --> 01:58:17,291
northern Peru to the places I have been

1575
01:58:17,291 --> 01:58:19,250
working with. And we have such a good

1576
01:58:19,250 --> 01:58:21,375
crew and good team with Adri

1577
01:58:21,375 --> 01:58:23,166
Sevalos and the Nisotto Mayor.

1578
01:58:23,833 --> 01:58:25,541
From that perspective, it was great to

1579
01:58:25,541 --> 01:58:26,541
work with such

1580
01:58:26,541 --> 01:58:27,958
professional passionate people.

1581
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:31,375
On the other side, it was kind of sad to

1582
01:58:31,375 --> 01:58:34,541
go to see this shark that only that very,

1583
01:58:34,541 --> 01:58:37,625
very old fisherman could identify and

1584
01:58:37,625 --> 01:58:39,458
they were saying that it

1585
01:58:39,458 --> 01:58:41,625
was gone so many years ago.

1586
01:58:42,166 --> 01:58:44,375
It was actually we're talking with a

1587
01:58:44,375 --> 01:58:45,958
younger generation that were talking

1588
01:58:45,958 --> 01:58:48,833
about other sharks that are gone that

1589
01:58:48,833 --> 01:58:52,416
we're not even looking for. So yeah, it

1590
01:58:52,416 --> 01:58:55,750
was sad reality to watch what's going on.

1591
01:58:55,791 --> 01:58:58,916
But I think the only way to make

1592
01:58:58,916 --> 01:59:02,041
something a change even is little you

1593
01:59:02,041 --> 01:59:03,875
need to understand what's the reality and

1594
01:59:03,875 --> 01:59:05,625
accept that and have hope. Yeah.

1595
01:59:05,750 --> 01:59:07,791
Changes. You know, that's what they would

1596
01:59:07,791 --> 01:59:09,875
so good because it puts you people into

1597
01:59:09,875 --> 01:59:12,458
this uncomfortable place that we are

1598
01:59:12,458 --> 01:59:14,458
using species and we don't even know.

1599
01:59:14,750 --> 01:59:17,333
And I think a key part of the series too

1600
01:59:17,333 --> 01:59:19,541
is like the first year, the first

1601
01:59:19,541 --> 01:59:23,458
episodes, this episode two and episode

1602
01:59:23,458 --> 01:59:24,375
three is going to be in

1603
01:59:24,375 --> 01:59:25,916
northern Peru and Ecuador.

1604
01:59:25,916 --> 01:59:29,458
But having Adriana who's with us today,

1605
01:59:29,458 --> 01:59:31,625
we had every Adriana Sevalos who beyond

1606
01:59:31,625 --> 01:59:35,166
who's Ecuador, but having people, young

1607
01:59:35,166 --> 01:59:37,833
people, young researchers to work with to

1608
01:59:37,833 --> 01:59:39,208
raise our awareness because you're going

1609
01:59:39,208 --> 01:59:40,833
to be because like you know, the people

1610
01:59:40,833 --> 01:59:42,333
in northern Peru, the fishing communities

1611
01:59:42,333 --> 01:59:43,750
there through your book and stuff.

1612
01:59:43,750 --> 01:59:45,625
And so you're going to be it's going to

1613
01:59:45,625 --> 01:59:48,500
be your people like yourself and Adriana

1614
01:59:48,500 --> 01:59:50,791
Sevalos that are going to be able to kind

1615
01:59:50,791 --> 01:59:52,541
of carry the torch, sort of speak to

1616
01:59:52,541 --> 01:59:55,000
raise awareness with fishermen and with,

1617
01:59:55,000 --> 01:59:57,666
you know, policymakers and others around

1618
01:59:57,666 --> 01:59:59,541
there about these species that might be

1619
01:59:59,541 --> 02:00:01,416
might be might be slowly disappearing.

1620
02:00:02,333 --> 02:00:05,833
And after that, some of the upcoming

1621
02:00:05,833 --> 02:00:07,958
series after that, as we're going to be

1622
02:00:07,958 --> 02:00:09,666
just talked about will be in Timor Leste

1623
02:00:09,666 --> 02:00:12,000
and Adriana managed to get her way on to

1624
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:13,708
that end of that project, which is I'm

1625
02:00:13,708 --> 02:00:16,833
really excited about to find out because

1626
02:00:16,833 --> 02:00:18,750
it is a completely unexplored area.

1627
02:00:18,791 --> 02:00:21,500
And then we'll have have other episodes

1628
02:00:21,500 --> 02:00:25,166
with Julia Constance looking at River

1629
02:00:25,166 --> 02:00:28,500
Sharks and Vinaya Simone got a few really

1630
02:00:28,500 --> 02:00:30,500
good episodes coming up on Indonesia.

1631
02:00:31,333 --> 02:00:32,583
We're looking for some really rare

1632
02:00:32,583 --> 02:00:34,708
species there and again all raising

1633
02:00:34,708 --> 02:00:38,000
awareness there for the for this project

1634
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:40,208
and it's and save our season has been

1635
02:00:40,208 --> 02:00:42,750
super supportive of the whole project.

1636
02:00:42,791 --> 02:00:46,291
And in fact, as Adriana just explained,

1637
02:00:46,291 --> 02:00:48,916
she got funding for a small grant from

1638
02:00:48,916 --> 02:00:51,000
save our seas to now go back and focus on

1639
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:53,500
Timor Lesty, which is it's just a

1640
02:00:53,500 --> 02:00:56,250
completely, you know, open book as to

1641
02:00:56,250 --> 02:00:57,166
what we'll find there.

1642
02:00:57,875 --> 02:01:02,416
So, so, yeah, so I kind of cool pretty

1643
02:01:02,416 --> 02:01:04,416
excited about you going to Timor Lesty

1644
02:01:04,416 --> 02:01:07,166
and looking forward to these other other

1645
02:01:07,166 --> 02:01:08,458
episodes. How did you

1646
02:01:08,458 --> 02:01:09,750
feel about about it?

1647
02:01:11,333 --> 02:01:14,166
Yeah, I feel super excited about what's

1648
02:01:14,166 --> 02:01:17,041
coming up this year because I have been

1649
02:01:17,041 --> 02:01:18,208
working a lot on the

1650
02:01:18,208 --> 02:01:19,875
proposal itself on the last year.

1651
02:01:20,125 --> 02:01:22,541
So it will be amazing to be back on the

1652
02:01:22,541 --> 02:01:26,791
field on a different continent, no far

1653
02:01:26,791 --> 02:01:28,916
away from home, but still super engage.

1654
02:01:30,083 --> 02:01:32,291
I think I don't know, like in my life I

1655
02:01:32,291 --> 02:01:34,708
make decisions basically if I don't do

1656
02:01:34,708 --> 02:01:36,833
it, I will regret even though I don't

1657
02:01:36,833 --> 02:01:37,208
know what the

1658
02:01:37,208 --> 02:01:39,416
consequences are. Okay, let's do it.

1659
02:01:39,791 --> 02:01:42,625
So when I went diving on Antarctica two

1660
02:01:42,625 --> 02:01:45,166
years ago, I say, of course, yes,

1661
02:01:45,750 --> 02:01:47,625
Antarctica. But then I have my second

1662
02:01:47,625 --> 02:01:50,000
panic attack when I was my first time and

1663
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:51,083
I was like, what I'm doing

1664
02:01:51,083 --> 02:01:53,833
diving in minus two degrees.

1665
02:01:56,750 --> 02:02:02,625
I could see like the seal, the huge seal.

1666
02:02:03,541 --> 02:02:05,291
Oh, leopard seal

1667
02:02:05,291 --> 02:02:07,000
leopard seal leopard seal.

1668
02:02:07,750 --> 02:02:10,375
Me leopard seal was behind me going to

1669
02:02:10,375 --> 02:02:13,708
scrape off my hair. But then again, I

1670
02:02:13,708 --> 02:02:15,375
don't regret it. It's an amazing

1671
02:02:15,375 --> 02:02:16,708
experience. I could have my

1672
02:02:16,708 --> 02:02:17,791
panic attack at that moment.

1673
02:02:20,750 --> 02:02:23,000
It's those experiences that if you don't

1674
02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:24,958
do it, it's just you need to stay alive.

1675
02:02:25,333 --> 02:02:26,708
No, that's what makes me

1676
02:02:26,708 --> 02:02:28,708
move forward every single day.

1677
02:02:29,500 --> 02:02:31,791
Yeah, yeah. Does that that? Yeah, that's

1678
02:02:31,791 --> 02:02:33,000
that's pretty amazing. Well, obviously

1679
02:02:33,000 --> 02:02:34,083
you're gonna be doing that for part of

1680
02:02:34,083 --> 02:02:36,166
your PhD thesis as well and doing the

1681
02:02:36,166 --> 02:02:38,625
research there. So this has been really

1682
02:02:38,625 --> 02:02:40,708
awesome. Awesome. I knew you'd be an

1683
02:02:40,708 --> 02:02:41,750
awesome guest to have on there. Talk about this.

1684
02:02:41,791 --> 02:02:43,666
And we're gonna have you well, I'm gonna

1685
02:02:43,666 --> 02:02:45,041
have you back. Talk about some of your

1686
02:02:45,041 --> 02:02:47,208
more as you get to team or less tea and

1687
02:02:47,208 --> 02:02:49,416
some of the other projects and more. But

1688
02:02:49,416 --> 02:02:53,291
Carol kind of as we want to finish up

1689
02:02:53,291 --> 02:02:55,166
this episode now. But what do you what

1690
02:02:55,166 --> 02:02:56,625
advice would you have for like a young

1691
02:02:56,625 --> 02:02:58,541
person starting out? What kind of advice

1692
02:02:58,541 --> 02:02:58,750
would you have for him?

1693
02:02:58,750 --> 02:03:03,541
Well, once heard that we not we are a few

1694
02:03:03,541 --> 02:03:07,583
ones who get fine and follow our passion.

1695
02:03:07,583 --> 02:03:10,000
I feel very grateful for that. And I know

1696
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:12,750
I'm kind of unique. A lot of people never

1697
02:03:12,750 --> 02:03:15,416
find it or never pursue it. But what I

1698
02:03:15,416 --> 02:03:17,541
could recommend it's be curious like

1699
02:03:17,541 --> 02:03:20,000
that's why I got into sharks is because I

1700
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:22,708
was curious. I put myself out there every

1701
02:03:22,708 --> 02:03:25,958
summer that I have a holidays from from

1702
02:03:25,958 --> 02:03:27,541
my university. I just went

1703
02:03:27,541 --> 02:03:27,750
somewhere to do some work.

1704
02:03:27,750 --> 02:03:30,875
Even if I don't get any money or

1705
02:03:30,875 --> 02:03:32,416
something to have to put from my own

1706
02:03:32,416 --> 02:03:34,916
pocket to do it. I did it. I will never

1707
02:03:34,916 --> 02:03:37,583
forget. And I think that's how I got into

1708
02:03:37,583 --> 02:03:40,500
finding my passion because I was curious

1709
02:03:40,500 --> 02:03:42,583
and I put myself out there like then he's

1710
02:03:42,583 --> 02:03:45,000
also was saying that just do it. Don't be

1711
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:47,666
afraid. Like you will regret like you

1712
02:03:47,666 --> 02:03:49,958
have to just do it and it will come to

1713
02:03:49,958 --> 02:03:52,375
you eventually. I think so. But you need

1714
02:03:52,375 --> 02:03:56,416
to be brave and just get out there. Yeah.

1715
02:03:56,416 --> 02:03:56,750
If it's scary, then I think it's a good thing.

1716
02:03:56,750 --> 02:03:58,625
If it's scary, then just do it. Of

1717
02:03:58,625 --> 02:04:00,916
course, take your precautions. No one's

1718
02:04:00,916 --> 02:04:03,208
but just don't let that fear hold you

1719
02:04:03,208 --> 02:04:06,625
back because I think the best thing that

1720
02:04:06,625 --> 02:04:09,750
could happen is it's just you don't find

1721
02:04:09,750 --> 02:04:10,666
out your passion and you

1722
02:04:10,666 --> 02:04:15,083
just stay being very basic.

1723
02:04:17,041 --> 02:04:19,125
So yeah, it is important to just be

1724
02:04:19,125 --> 02:04:21,500
curious and get out there and don't be

1725
02:04:21,500 --> 02:04:25,541
fall back by your by your fears. No, I

1726
02:04:25,541 --> 02:04:29,291
think fear could be used as a source to

1727
02:04:29,291 --> 02:04:32,041
get you out there. I try to do that. No,

1728
02:04:32,583 --> 02:04:35,000
instead of letting me pull me back. It's

1729
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:37,333
a way to push me forward. I think you can

1730
02:04:37,333 --> 02:04:39,750
play with fear in that sense very easily.

1731
02:04:40,750 --> 02:04:43,583
And yeah, I think all the amazing things

1732
02:04:43,583 --> 02:04:45,208
that you can like if you told me that I

1733
02:04:45,208 --> 02:04:48,083
was going to my PhD in this part of the

1734
02:04:48,083 --> 02:04:49,750
amazing part of the world, the highest

1735
02:04:49,750 --> 02:04:51,625
biodiversity working in Timor-Leste

1736
02:04:51,625 --> 02:04:54,208
again, not even in my oldest room ever

1737
02:04:54,208 --> 02:04:57,666
think about it. And one thing led to

1738
02:04:57,666 --> 02:04:59,291
another and for multiple

1739
02:04:59,291 --> 02:05:01,666
years, it build up, no?

1740
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:02,750
Yeah. Yeah.

1741
02:05:02,875 --> 02:05:05,250
Let's go out there.

1742
02:05:05,250 --> 02:05:08,000
All right. That's great advice. Let's go.

1743
02:05:08,333 --> 02:05:09,958
Thank you. Thank you, Adriana, for coming

1744
02:05:09,958 --> 02:05:11,791
on to show and I know we'll be having you

1745
02:05:11,791 --> 02:05:14,541
back soon. Absolutely. All the best to

1746
02:05:14,541 --> 02:05:18,500
you and congratulations on your grant or

1747
02:05:18,500 --> 02:05:20,041
save our team's grant for Timor-Leste.

1748
02:05:20,375 --> 02:05:22,583
And anyway, great. Thank you. Thank you

1749
02:05:22,583 --> 02:05:24,625
again so much for coming on the show. We

1750
02:05:24,625 --> 02:05:26,458
appreciate it. Thank you both for having

1751
02:05:26,458 --> 02:05:28,208
me here. Have a great time with both of

1752
02:05:28,208 --> 02:05:31,083
you. And I really admire your project.

1753
02:05:31,083 --> 02:05:31,750
All your work that you're doing. And you're doing a great job.

1754
02:05:31,791 --> 02:05:32,000
And I really appreciate your work that

1755
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:33,916
you're doing and you're also a source of

1756
02:05:33,916 --> 02:05:35,375
huge source of inspiration for me and for

1757
02:05:35,375 --> 02:05:37,333
me, for many people around the world.

1758
02:05:37,916 --> 02:05:39,916
Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you

1759
02:05:39,916 --> 02:05:42,750
Adriana for being on this episode of the

1760
02:05:42,750 --> 02:05:44,500
Beyond Jaws podcast. It was great to have

1761
02:05:44,500 --> 02:05:45,916
you on Dave. What did

1762
02:05:45,916 --> 02:05:46,750
you think of the interview?

1763
02:05:46,750 --> 02:05:49,125
Yeah. You know, just she was just what I

1764
02:05:49,125 --> 02:05:51,750
thought, man, she was she's a powerhouse.

1765
02:05:51,750 --> 02:05:54,250
I mean, she really starts talking about

1766
02:05:54,250 --> 02:05:55,791
stuff. She just sort of talks very much.

1767
02:05:55,791 --> 02:05:56,833
Yeah. You know, I did this

1768
02:05:56,833 --> 02:05:58,708
and I kind of pursued that.

1769
02:05:58,750 --> 02:06:01,166
You know, she talked about going out to

1770
02:06:01,166 --> 02:06:02,500
sea and spending, you know, these some of

1771
02:06:02,500 --> 02:06:04,750
these little artisanal boats, basically,

1772
02:06:05,083 --> 02:06:07,250
five, five fishermen and her for 13 days.

1773
02:06:07,250 --> 02:06:09,833
And there's no bathroom, no luxuries at

1774
02:06:09,833 --> 02:06:11,708
all on the boat. And the guys were the

1775
02:06:11,708 --> 02:06:12,750
nicest they could be to her. Yeah.

1776
02:06:12,750 --> 02:06:15,416
And, you know, I kind of feel a little I

1777
02:06:15,416 --> 02:06:17,000
know her parents a little bit. So I feel

1778
02:06:17,000 --> 02:06:19,500
sorry for her parents. A particular mom

1779
02:06:19,500 --> 02:06:21,708
was probably probably aged a little more.

1780
02:06:22,583 --> 02:06:26,916
Yeah. But yeah, she's she's got that

1781
02:06:26,916 --> 02:06:29,708
Explorer gene. Yeah. And one of the

1782
02:06:29,708 --> 02:06:31,541
things you'll see people watch the

1783
02:06:31,541 --> 02:06:33,791
series, you'll find people like Adriana

1784
02:06:33,791 --> 02:06:35,666
and some of the other young researchers

1785
02:06:35,666 --> 02:06:37,375
that we feature on this feature in the

1786
02:06:37,375 --> 02:06:39,750
show. They all have the Explorer gene.

1787
02:06:39,750 --> 02:06:41,875
They they really want to get out there

1788
02:06:41,875 --> 02:06:43,041
and learn stuff and they're going to

1789
02:06:43,041 --> 02:06:45,500
places going and doing things that most

1790
02:06:45,500 --> 02:06:47,625
people would never consider doing, you

1791
02:06:47,625 --> 02:06:49,708
know, going out to going out to sea for

1792
02:06:49,708 --> 02:06:53,208
13 days with five strangers or going out

1793
02:06:53,208 --> 02:06:55,000
or even just going up to northern Peru

1794
02:06:55,000 --> 02:06:56,958
where nobody, nobody really studied

1795
02:06:56,958 --> 02:06:58,000
sharks there before.

1796
02:06:58,000 --> 02:06:59,208
She literally is like one of the first

1797
02:06:59,208 --> 02:07:01,875
almost like a young Eugenie Clark of Peru

1798
02:07:01,875 --> 02:07:04,666
in a way. Yeah. Yeah. No. She had no. She

1799
02:07:04,666 --> 02:07:07,250
made that point that she said like there

1800
02:07:07,250 --> 02:07:08,500
was no role models. She said, well, there

1801
02:07:08,500 --> 02:07:08,750
are no women role models.

1802
02:07:08,750 --> 02:07:11,333
But there was no really role models,

1803
02:07:11,541 --> 02:07:13,625
period. There was no. Yeah. There were no

1804
02:07:13,625 --> 02:07:15,791
there were no male. There were just

1805
02:07:15,791 --> 02:07:18,291
simply no role models. So she's really I

1806
02:07:18,291 --> 02:07:19,958
think what she's doing with the young

1807
02:07:19,958 --> 02:07:21,458
people in the communities there, I think

1808
02:07:21,458 --> 02:07:24,250
she'll she will be that sort of Eugenie

1809
02:07:24,250 --> 02:07:25,375
Clark of Peru, I think.

1810
02:07:26,291 --> 02:07:29,166
I agree. I agree. I think it's it's you

1811
02:07:29,166 --> 02:07:30,958
know, she she will have a name for

1812
02:07:30,958 --> 02:07:32,666
herself within that air. She will become

1813
02:07:32,666 --> 02:07:35,125
that role model. And I'm sure there are

1814
02:07:35,125 --> 02:07:37,458
going to be a number of kids that grow up

1815
02:07:37,458 --> 02:07:37,750
that that read that book.

1816
02:07:37,750 --> 02:07:40,791
And and want to do the same thing and

1817
02:07:40,791 --> 02:07:43,041
follow her career. And I think what she's

1818
02:07:43,041 --> 02:07:44,833
doing is fantastic sharing her

1819
02:07:44,833 --> 02:07:47,708
experiences and paving that way. Not we

1820
02:07:47,708 --> 02:07:49,791
know it's not an easy an easy feat. We've

1821
02:07:49,791 --> 02:07:51,500
we've heard from a number of people who

1822
02:07:51,500 --> 02:07:52,583
are doing that within their own

1823
02:07:52,583 --> 02:07:54,458
countries. It's not an easy feat. There's

1824
02:07:54,458 --> 02:07:56,875
a lot of hard challenges that are that

1825
02:07:56,875 --> 02:07:58,333
she's gone through and that are ahead for

1826
02:07:58,333 --> 02:08:01,291
her. But she's got that resilience that

1827
02:08:01,291 --> 02:08:03,708
we've seen in a lot of other people. And

1828
02:08:03,708 --> 02:08:05,291
you can just see it right now. She's

1829
02:08:05,291 --> 02:08:06,625
going to definitely be a

1830
02:08:06,625 --> 02:08:06,750
star and help out in the future.

1831
02:08:06,791 --> 02:08:12,833
And I think that's going to be great. We

1832
02:08:12,833 --> 02:08:14,750
need more. We need more of that around

1833
02:08:14,750 --> 02:08:16,541
the world. Right. And I think one other

1834
02:08:16,541 --> 02:08:18,666
part of that is is that she because of

1835
02:08:18,666 --> 02:08:20,583
all the international experience she's

1836
02:08:20,583 --> 02:08:23,416
getting, you know, she's in Australia now

1837
02:08:23,416 --> 02:08:25,666
and she's working on these ISRA programs.

1838
02:08:26,166 --> 02:08:27,291
She could bring all that international

1839
02:08:27,291 --> 02:08:31,125
knowledge back locally. And that's really

1840
02:08:31,125 --> 02:08:33,458
giving have that broader experience and

1841
02:08:33,458 --> 02:08:34,958
having someone who can share. That's

1842
02:08:34,958 --> 02:08:35,750
really going to be important. I think in the future of Peru.

1843
02:08:35,791 --> 02:08:41,625
Yeah, I think that'll be really, really

1844
02:08:41,625 --> 02:08:43,791
good. Peru just to kind of aside, we've

1845
02:08:43,791 --> 02:08:47,208
had a number of Peruvian researchers on

1846
02:08:47,208 --> 02:08:48,500
there. The whole way happened to be

1847
02:08:48,500 --> 02:08:51,875
women. They have a really dynamic crew

1848
02:08:51,875 --> 02:08:54,000
down there. And I've been very fortunate

1849
02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:56,083
to get to know them and collaborating

1850
02:08:56,083 --> 02:08:59,500
with them and mentoring. And they just

1851
02:08:59,500 --> 02:09:01,333
it's, you know, just the others. There's

1852
02:09:01,333 --> 02:09:02,583
a lot going on. It's one of those places

1853
02:09:02,583 --> 02:09:03,750
that most people wouldn't think about Peru. You know, have a lot of people who are going to be doing that.

1854
02:09:03,750 --> 02:09:10,958
But it's quite a quite an area and say

1855
02:09:10,958 --> 02:09:12,291
there are a number of other people who've

1856
02:09:12,291 --> 02:09:14,083
been very fortunate to highlight from

1857
02:09:14,083 --> 02:09:15,708
South America and some of these different

1858
02:09:15,708 --> 02:09:18,875
countries. And so I think that's for me.

1859
02:09:19,125 --> 02:09:20,416
I think in you is like being able to

1860
02:09:20,416 --> 02:09:21,541
highlight some of these people like

1861
02:09:21,541 --> 02:09:25,208
Adrian, a series to reach people out

1862
02:09:25,208 --> 02:09:26,333
there and let them know, hey, there's a

1863
02:09:26,333 --> 02:09:26,750
lot of activity going on in these countries that no one really thought about. I think
it really great. I think it certainly makes us feel kind of fulfilled in our lives.

1864
02:09:26,750 --> 02:09:26,958
Absolutely.

1865
02:09:27,750 --> 02:09:36,416
We want to do in here. So yeah. Yeah. And

1866
02:09:36,416 --> 02:09:38,125
they will. Adriana will be back. She's

1867
02:09:38,125 --> 02:09:41,416
going to have her episode three just will

1868
02:09:41,416 --> 02:09:42,916
be coming up the episode two and three

1869
02:09:42,916 --> 02:09:45,208
are both on Ecuador's lost shark and

1870
02:09:45,208 --> 02:09:48,166
Adriana will be back with Adriana Savalas

1871
02:09:48,166 --> 02:09:51,166
in episode three. Yeah. And we'll have

1872
02:09:51,166 --> 02:09:53,041
both on the podcast to talk a little bit

1873
02:09:53,041 --> 02:09:55,125
about that. Yeah, it'll be great. It's

1874
02:09:55,125 --> 02:09:55,750
kind of look I'm looking forward to it. Also, I think it's a great way to get to the next level of the conversation.

1875
02:09:55,750 --> 02:09:57,666
I'm looking forward to it. Also, just to

1876
02:09:57,666 --> 02:09:58,708
the point that you've made a number of

1877
02:09:58,708 --> 02:10:02,125
times too is as Adriana is traveling from

1878
02:10:02,125 --> 02:10:03,666
place to place as she's building her

1879
02:10:03,666 --> 02:10:05,666
network. And so I think as she takes on

1880
02:10:05,666 --> 02:10:07,625
students when she goes back to prove she

1881
02:10:07,625 --> 02:10:10,791
decides to go back. She will be able to

1882
02:10:10,791 --> 02:10:13,125
send them and have that network. Like,

1883
02:10:13,125 --> 02:10:14,375
hey, I've got a great student for you,

1884
02:10:14,666 --> 02:10:15,875
whether it be in Australia, whether it be

1885
02:10:15,875 --> 02:10:19,083
in the US. She's expanding that network.

1886
02:10:19,375 --> 02:10:20,666
And I think that will help a lot of

1887
02:10:20,666 --> 02:10:22,916
people get that international experience,

1888
02:10:22,916 --> 02:10:24,750
bring it back to Peru and that'll benefit the science community.

1889
02:10:25,750 --> 02:10:27,500
There the marine science community and

1890
02:10:27,500 --> 02:10:28,500
shark science community. So I think

1891
02:10:28,500 --> 02:10:30,291
that'll be that'll be really great. And

1892
02:10:30,291 --> 02:10:32,250
we're going to put we're going to put all

1893
02:10:32,250 --> 02:10:35,250
the social media followings that you can

1894
02:10:35,250 --> 02:10:37,833
connect with to Adriana with in the show

1895
02:10:37,833 --> 02:10:39,208
notes and Dave, if people want to get a

1896
02:10:39,208 --> 02:10:39,750
hold of you, how would they do so?

1897
02:10:39,750 --> 02:10:42,458
It's a lost shark on Instagram, but

1898
02:10:42,458 --> 02:10:44,208
really go to the YouTube channel lost

1899
02:10:44,208 --> 02:10:47,166
shark eyes and check out our series. We

1900
02:10:47,166 --> 02:10:50,750
just episode twos out now and check it

1901
02:10:50,750 --> 02:10:52,458
out. Episode three will be out here in a

1902
02:10:52,458 --> 02:10:54,583
couple of weeks. And yeah, check it out.

1903
02:10:54,583 --> 02:10:55,833
I'm really where Andrew and Andrew has

1904
02:10:55,833 --> 02:10:58,041
been involved doing the editing. Denise

1905
02:10:58,041 --> 02:11:00,000
Sotomayor who's on the on the podcast,

1906
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:02,625
did the filming and the three of us are

1907
02:11:02,625 --> 02:11:04,833
super excited about that. And of course,

1908
02:11:04,833 --> 02:11:07,458
I want to big thank you to save our seas

1909
02:11:07,458 --> 02:11:08,750
for supporting this this project and for the support.

1910
02:11:09,041 --> 02:11:10,666
This project and really helping raise

1911
02:11:10,666 --> 02:11:13,833
awareness of these lost sharks. And so we

1912
02:11:13,833 --> 02:11:15,916
really so yeah, so check out the channel

1913
02:11:15,916 --> 02:11:19,541
Instagram on Facebook. Just look for lost

1914
02:11:19,541 --> 02:11:21,375
shark guy. You'll find me pretty much all

1915
02:11:21,375 --> 02:11:23,500
the social media platforms. So awesome.

1916
02:11:23,791 --> 02:11:25,916
Perfect. And don't forget on Instagram

1917
02:11:25,916 --> 02:11:27,875
beyond Jaws pod. If you want to get a

1918
02:11:27,875 --> 02:11:30,541
hold of us and I want to thank Adriana

1919
02:11:30,541 --> 02:11:32,333
for joining us and Dave. Thank you again

1920
02:11:32,333 --> 02:11:34,208
for having these connections and being

1921
02:11:34,208 --> 02:11:35,833
able to bring these wonderful people on

1922
02:11:35,833 --> 02:11:37,750
to the podcast and for you, the audience member who are listening to this.

1923
02:11:38,750 --> 02:11:40,541
And watching this on YouTube. Thank you

1924
02:11:40,541 --> 02:11:42,208
so much for joining us on today's episode

1925
02:11:42,208 --> 02:11:44,791
of the beyond just podcast from David and

1926
02:11:44,791 --> 02:11:46,166
I. We want to thank you so much. Have a

1927
02:11:46,166 --> 02:11:47,750
great day and happy conservation.