April 17, 2025

The Science and Ethics of De-extinction: The Case of the Dire Wolf

Show Notes

Chances are, you've seen the headlines that the dire wolf is no longer extinct. The company Colossal Biosciences claims to have brought it back from extinction in the form of three living, breathing dire wolf pups.

But my headlines have actually been flooded with scientists saying “not so fast…” so what is really going on here?

Having studied African forest elephants using genetics during my Ph.D., a species related to the extinct woolly mammoth and a target of de-extinction efforts, this topic has long been on my mind to discuss on the podcast.

Given the recent dire wolf news, I’ve been getting so many questions about this, that I thought it would be a great time to discuss this and prepared this episode as soon as I could (despite a myriad of technical difficulties).

De-extinction is the concept of bringing back a fully extinct species back to life and as you’ve seen now as evidenced from the dire wolves, scientists are actively working on it. But should they be? And why?

First, I break down the dire wolf headlines, offering insight into the scientific process of de-extinction as a whole, how the team at Colossal Biosciences approached de-extinction and why, and how most scientists feel about their result: Are these really dire wolves?

I then open up to a larger conversation about de-extinction: why are scientists attempting to de-extinct species at all? Is there conservation merit in doing so? Which species are being considered? I address a plethora of topics as well as moral and ethical considerations.

Specifically, I go over:

What exactly is de-extinction and how it can be done
Why de-extinction is so hard to actually do
How Colossal Biosciences resurrected what they are calling the dire wolf
What scientists think of Colossal’s dire wolves; are they really dire wolves? Why or why not?
Insights on how scientists think about species in general
What else goes into a species being a species aside from genetics
What is the point of de-extinction? Why should scientists attempt it? Which kinds of species are being considered?
My opinions on de-extinction: which species are okay to bring back and why
Does de-extinction help conservation? How?
How de-extinction can hurt conservation efforts
How the Trump administration is attempting to use de-extinction efforts to undermine the Endangered Species Act
And more!

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I’m Dr. Stephanie Manka (formerly Schuttler), a wildlife biologist of 20 yrs who is on a mission to empower wildlife professionals and break stereotypes of scientists so they can get jobs, live out their life’s purpose and make a difference in this world.

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Full show notes:

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Jump links:

01:14 My Scientific Background and Expertise

03:07 Understanding De-Extinction

04:28 How De-Extinction Works, & Why It’s So Hard to Do

09:27 Woolly Mammoth and Tasmanian Tiger De-Extinction Challenges

12:01 The Dire Wolf Project by Colossal Biosciences

15:27 Scientific Skepticism and Ethical Considerations

22:15 Why Colossal Chose the Dire Wolf

24:41 Species Concepts and Controversies