April 28, 2025
Defunding Science Due To DEI: What It Means for Canada
Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion (EDI) have become integral components of Canadian science funding. In this episode, we explore Pierre Poilievre's plan to strip funding from research programs that incorporate so-called "woke" policies like EDI. We...
Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion (EDI) have become integral components of Canadian science funding. In this episode, we explore Pierre Poilievre's plan to strip funding from research programs that incorporate so-called "woke" policies like EDI. We examine how EDI policies are currently embedded in major grants from NSERC, SSHRC, CIHR, and more, and discuss what could be at stake for Canada's research innovation if these changes move forward.
Pierre Poilievre's proposal has sparked a broader debate within the Canadian academic and scientific communities. Many fear that removing EDI requirements could turn back progress made toward ensuring more inclusive and impactful research environments. We'll dive into what these policies actually achieve, why they were implemented, and the potential future of science in Canada.
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Transcript
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This episode is a rant.
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And it's a rant about defunding science
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due to DEI programs.
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We have a Canadian election going on,
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a federal Canadian
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election going on here in Canada.
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And there's been talk
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on the conservative side
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about defunding programs
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within Canadian context
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like funding agencies that
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have to do with DEI programs.
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This is not good for science.
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This is not good for
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elevating communities
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that need to be elevated
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and making science better
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here in Canada.
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We're going to talk
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about that on today's episode
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of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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Let's start the show.
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Hey everybody, welcome back
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to another exciting episode
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of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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I am your host, Andrew Lewin.
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And this is the podcast where we find out
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what's happening with the ocean,
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how you can speak up for the ocean,
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and what you can do to
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live for a better ocean
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by taking action.
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Now in today's episode, we're going to be
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talking about politics.
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Politics and science to be specific,
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and also looking at DEI programs.
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This is not going to be
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like a hugely political post,
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but there is a Canadian
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federal election that's going on.
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And one of the parties, the
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conservative party leader,
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Pierre Poliev came out last week
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talking about defunding science,
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I guess projects and science grants
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based on DEI initiatives.
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This is scary to me because I don't know
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if it's trying to end
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quote unquote woke ism,
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or if it's just trying to use that as an
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excuse to defund science.
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Either way, both is bad.
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And we're going to talk
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about why that's bad today.
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And we're going to be talking about also
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how Canada can separate itself
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from our neighbors down south in terms of
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their thought process.
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I've always felt that Canada as a
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Canadian growing up here in Canada,
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we have really changed our tune in terms,
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especially when it comes to human rights.
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We voted on the approval and the
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institution of marriage for LGBTQ plus
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people a long time ago.
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Unfortunately, that's come back and we
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see a lot of hateful things
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said against LGBTQ community.
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We're also seeing, we've seen the
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advancement of DEI
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initiatives within this country,
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although it's not perfect by any means,
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but we've seen that advancement.
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And now we're starting to see the talk of
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woke ism and being woke and DEI all being
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lumped in the middle as a bad thing,
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you know, where it's which I find really
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crazy because all it's trying to do is
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put everybody on the same plane by
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lifting up communities that haven't been
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lifted up before or haven't had the
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chance or the
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opportunity to be lifted up before.
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So it's it's putting everybody on a
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similar plane by a similar plane by like
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just basically lifting this up.
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This episode is going
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to be a bit of a rant.
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It's not going to be edited.
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I'm putting this out last minute.
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I had an episode.
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Truthfully, I had an episode already
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planned about the U.S.
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and their energy policy that's coming out
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about rolling back, you know, policies
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and regulations and laws so that they can
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really put forward on drilling oil and
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gas and lessening the green energy like
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wind power offshore.
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Not fun, but where you'll you'll hear
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that on Wednesday because today I wanted
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to talk about this dei initiative and
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defunding science that have dei policies.
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It within the federal government that
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federal government kind of put together,
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which is a lot of academic and a lot of
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nonprofit organizations that are working
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on not only oceans, but just nature in
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general and wildlife biology and
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conservation biology in general as law as
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well as medical and all
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social science and so forth.
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There's a lot of science that gets funded
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through these programs, but we need to
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talk about today because the party that
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could be as like the party in power for
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Canada is the conservative party is
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putting together this.
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They've proposed this plan to defund
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science based on whether that
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program has a dei initiative.
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Essentially, that's
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essentially what they want to do.
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One of the things that they want to do
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and it's not the I hate to say it, but
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it's not the biggest issue that's in the
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the overall issues like the economy,
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tariffs, sovereignty of Canada, you know,
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the fact that we want our independence on
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oil and gas that we're not
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just selling it to the US.
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There's a lot of stuff that's happening
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in Canada and this as well as the
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environment unfortunately does not get
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the attention that it deserves.
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It may not be what everybody wants to
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talk about or vote on when
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we're looking at this election.
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However, this is important to me is
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important to the people who are in Canada
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who listen to this podcast and I want to
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make it clear about what they want to do
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what the conservative party have proposed
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to do because I feel like today is the
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day, you know, where
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it's the last day to vote.
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You know, you got to put in your vote.
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Everybody go vote doesn't matter who you
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vote for, but everybody go vote.
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But understand what this party wants to
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do to our scientific grant and funding
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agencies and what it's going to limit and
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how bad that's going to be.
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So first off, you know, Pierre Poliev,
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who's the leader of the Canadian
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Conservative Party, has led, has pledged
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to eliminate what he terms as woke
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ideology from the federal research
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funding, particularly targeting policies
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related to equity, diversity and
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inclusion, EDI or DEI as many people
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refer to in science and academia.
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So this stance has raised concerns among
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academic institutions and researchers who
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emphasize the importance of DEI in
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fostering inclusion and innovative
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research environments.
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So this is what's essentially happened in
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the past before the initiatives happen.
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There is a big push and a lot of demand
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for making sure that granting agencies
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and funding agencies from the federal
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government would disperse the money
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equally through like a DEI initiatives,
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essentially making sure that the money
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went to a diverse, make sure that it was
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equal and there was equity in the
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distribution of the funds as well as it
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makes sure it's inclusive to everybody.
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So it's not just people who look like me
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who are getting these funds, which was
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happening, whether we like it or not,
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that was happening back in the 70s, 80s,
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probably even before that 70, 90s, 2000s.
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It's still probably happening today.
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And so what the federal government did
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was put in these DEI initiatives so that
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programs that were applying this, so
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whether it be academic or whether it be
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nonprofit or any kind of non governmental
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organizations, if they wanted to get
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access to this funding, they had to prove
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that they're following DEI policies.
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So that they had DEI policies that they
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would follow and they had to prove that
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they were doing this.
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Now, this doesn't mean that only grants
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went to minorities or people of color or
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people in sort of marginalized
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communities, whether it be gender
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communities or whether it be cultural
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communities or race communities.
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It didn't it didn't matter is everybody
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was on the same playing field, right?
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And even though, you know, the science
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was still great and everything was great.
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They wanted to make sure that it was
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still on the same playing field.
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And that's great. It
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really worked out great.
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So essentially what happened is the
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federal grants incorporating DEI
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policies, they had several major funding
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programs administered by Canada's
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tri-agency, which is comprising of NSERC,
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SHRC, which is social sciences and NSERC
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is natural sciences.
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And then there's CIHR, which to be
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honest, I'm not too sure what it was, but
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I think it has to do more with health, I
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think is more where it comes from.
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But then they had to have integrated DEI
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considerations into their frameworks.
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They had to have equity, diversity and
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inclusion, institutional
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capacity building grant.
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So that was one of the grants.
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They aims to identify and eliminate
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systemic barriers that impede the career
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advancement of
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underrepresented groups in academia.
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New Frontiers Research Fund and FRF
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requires applicants to demonstrate a
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commitment to DEI in their research
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practice and team compositions.
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Canada's excellence research here.
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So these are research chairs that are
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like heads of departments, essentially
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looking at in academia.
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And this is NSERC and I think two more,
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two more different ones.
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I can't remember now, but mandates
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institutions to maintain up to date
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equity plans and promote diversity in
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research leadership.
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And then the Vanier Canada Graduate
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Scholarships and Banting Postdoctoral
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Fellowships include DEI considerations in
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their selection criteria
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to attract diverse talent.
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So these programs reflect a broader
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governmental commitment to fostering
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inclusive research environments that
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leverage diverse perspectives to enhance
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scientific inquiry and innovation.
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So here's the thing.
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When you look at science, when you look
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at nature, and I've said this a number of
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times, diversity matters, right?
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The fact that if you have a diverse
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01:08:55,083 --> 01:08:58,375
environment, I'd say a marine habitat, if
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01:08:58,375 --> 01:09:00,125
it was diverse, if it had coral reefs, it
263
01:09:00,125 --> 01:09:02,833
had seagrasses, if it had mangroves, it
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01:09:02,833 --> 01:09:05,750
made it a stronger environment because
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01:09:05,750 --> 01:09:07,916
all those habitats contribute to not only
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01:09:07,916 --> 01:09:09,916
diversity of species by having a habitat
267
01:09:09,916 --> 01:09:12,916
that can house all these types of diverse
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01:09:12,916 --> 01:09:15,416
species, but it also like if one of those
269
01:09:15,416 --> 01:09:17,125
species is gone of the
270
01:09:17,125 --> 01:09:19,000
same like functional group.
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01:09:19,333 --> 01:09:21,583
So say they're like reef builders, then
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01:09:21,583 --> 01:09:23,041
you know that there's if there's multiple
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01:09:23,041 --> 01:09:24,708
species within that same functional
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01:09:24,708 --> 01:09:26,250
group, you know, if one species is
275
01:09:26,250 --> 01:09:28,833
extirpated, so is gone from that area for
276
01:09:28,833 --> 01:09:30,625
whatever reason, there are others that
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01:09:30,625 --> 01:09:31,958
can do still the same function.
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01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:33,875
Right. But if you only had one species in
279
01:09:33,875 --> 01:09:35,000
that functional group, and that species
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01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,375
disappears from that habitat, then that
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01:09:37,375 --> 01:09:39,083
function is gone. And that could affect
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01:09:39,083 --> 01:09:41,583
the entire dynamic of the marine habitat.
283
01:09:42,083 --> 01:09:44,625
So diversity in nature is important,
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01:09:44,625 --> 01:09:45,958
you're looking even from genetic
285
01:09:45,958 --> 01:09:48,666
diversity, if you have a species that's
286
01:09:48,666 --> 01:09:51,583
in that's endangered, and you have you
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01:09:51,583 --> 01:09:53,333
preserve a number of the different
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01:09:53,333 --> 01:09:55,333
genetics of the diversity of genetics, so
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01:09:55,333 --> 01:09:57,291
a number of different genetic makeup, you
290
01:09:57,291 --> 01:09:59,125
know that if you ever have to repopulate
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01:09:59,125 --> 01:10:01,166
that population, you know that if you
292
01:10:01,166 --> 01:10:04,375
have a diverse set of genes in each
293
01:10:04,375 --> 01:10:06,583
species or each population, then that
294
01:10:06,583 --> 01:10:09,208
diversity will will survive longer
295
01:10:09,208 --> 01:10:10,625
because just the process of natural science,
296
01:10:10,666 --> 01:10:12,250
just the process of natural selection,
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01:10:12,916 --> 01:10:15,166
one particular set of genes could survive
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01:10:15,166 --> 01:10:16,833
better than another particular set of
299
01:10:16,833 --> 01:10:18,916
genes. And so having those sets of genes
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01:10:18,916 --> 01:10:22,333
work together and be able to say which of
301
01:10:22,333 --> 01:10:24,291
the populations are going to survive
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01:10:24,291 --> 01:10:26,208
based on a genetic diversity, that's
303
01:10:26,208 --> 01:10:29,791
really important. So we have proof that
304
01:10:29,791 --> 01:10:31,708
genetic diversity, just diversity in
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01:10:31,708 --> 01:10:34,333
general, from a species, from a genetic
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01:10:34,333 --> 01:10:35,666
level, from a species level, from a
307
01:10:35,666 --> 01:10:37,291
habitat level, from an ecosystem level,
308
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:39,083
makes the environment stronger.
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01:10:40,083 --> 01:10:42,125
It makes it stronger. So remember that.
310
01:10:42,666 --> 01:10:45,458
Now when you're talking about a team, a
311
01:10:45,458 --> 01:10:47,833
team makes it stronger, like if diversity
312
01:10:47,833 --> 01:10:49,875
makes and inclusion, making sure
313
01:10:49,875 --> 01:10:51,958
everybody's included, make sure that
314
01:10:51,958 --> 01:10:55,500
everything is stronger. Take football, I
315
01:10:55,500 --> 01:10:57,458
love football, draft is on as I'm
316
01:10:57,458 --> 01:10:59,625
recording this, it's great to see all
317
01:10:59,625 --> 01:11:02,291
these different positions really matter.
318
01:11:03,458 --> 01:11:07,166
If you have a strong O line, an offensive
319
01:11:07,166 --> 01:11:09,375
line, your offense is going to be great.
320
01:11:09,708 --> 01:11:11,541
If you have great receivers, your offense
321
01:11:11,541 --> 01:11:14,041
is going to be great. If you and your
322
01:11:14,041 --> 01:11:15,208
quarterback is going to be great because
323
01:11:15,208 --> 01:11:16,708
you have a great offensive line. They
324
01:11:16,708 --> 01:11:19,166
allow for the quarterback to have the
325
01:11:19,166 --> 01:11:20,375
time to decide which
326
01:11:20,375 --> 01:11:21,708
receiver to throw to.
327
01:11:22,208 --> 01:11:23,791
If you don't have a good offensive line,
328
01:11:24,416 --> 01:11:26,375
defensive lines comes in, they sack the
329
01:11:26,375 --> 01:11:27,708
quarterback, you can't throw, you don't
330
01:11:27,708 --> 01:11:29,208
have, you basically have a crappy
331
01:11:29,208 --> 01:11:30,875
offense. You don't want a crappy offense.
332
01:11:31,291 --> 01:11:34,291
But having each or one of those groups be
333
01:11:34,291 --> 01:11:37,333
good or be solid, right? And having a
334
01:11:37,333 --> 01:11:42,208
diverse set of good, strong positions and
335
01:11:42,208 --> 01:11:43,666
positional groups, you are
336
01:11:43,666 --> 01:11:44,666
going to have a better team.
337
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:46,833
But if you don't have those strong
338
01:11:46,833 --> 01:11:48,125
positional groups or you're missing a
339
01:11:48,125 --> 01:11:51,000
positional group, you're not very good.
340
01:11:51,583 --> 01:11:53,541
Case in point, a couple years ago, my San
341
01:11:53,541 --> 01:11:55,416
Francisco 49ers were in the NFC
342
01:11:55,416 --> 01:11:57,333
Championship playing the Philadelphia
343
01:11:57,333 --> 01:11:59,958
Eagles. The winner goes on to play Kansas
344
01:11:59,958 --> 01:12:01,583
City Chiefs for the second time in a row
345
01:12:01,583 --> 01:12:02,875
for the Niners. Niners had
346
01:12:02,875 --> 01:12:04,083
just gotten to the Super Bowl.
347
01:12:04,458 --> 01:12:06,208
Okay, so now they're going against a
348
01:12:06,208 --> 01:12:08,750
great team. They're a great team. They
349
01:12:08,750 --> 01:12:11,291
lose their quarterback in the first
350
01:12:11,291 --> 01:12:13,708
quarter, second quarter. Lose him. He
351
01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:17,000
can't throw anymore. He can only run. And
352
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,291
even then, he's hurting. His arm is UCL
353
01:12:19,291 --> 01:12:21,958
is basically torn. Can't throw far, can't
354
01:12:21,958 --> 01:12:23,541
throw it all. They don't have another
355
01:12:23,541 --> 01:12:24,166
quarterback because all their
356
01:12:24,166 --> 01:12:24,791
quarterback's got to do.
357
01:12:25,125 --> 01:12:26,750
One more quarterback, he goes in, he gets
358
01:12:26,750 --> 01:12:28,166
a concussion, he's out of the game. They
359
01:12:28,166 --> 01:12:29,250
don't have any more quarterbacks. They
360
01:12:29,250 --> 01:12:30,875
have to use their running back as a
361
01:12:30,875 --> 01:12:32,833
quarterback. And all they do is run the
362
01:12:32,833 --> 01:12:34,500
ball. They can't run and throw because
363
01:12:34,500 --> 01:12:35,541
they don't have the quarterback. They're
364
01:12:35,541 --> 01:12:36,750
losing that diversity.
365
01:12:37,541 --> 01:12:38,875
Right? They lost that positional group
366
01:12:38,875 --> 01:12:40,750
that actually makes it matter. I'm taking
367
01:12:40,750 --> 01:12:42,541
this analogy way too far. Draft is on
368
01:12:42,541 --> 01:12:44,625
really hot in my head. But you get the
369
01:12:44,625 --> 01:12:47,250
point. The point is that diversity,
370
01:12:48,250 --> 01:12:49,583
making sure that everybody's included,
371
01:12:49,583 --> 01:12:50,375
making sure that everything
372
01:12:50,375 --> 01:12:52,416
is like the equity is there.
373
01:12:53,791 --> 01:12:56,875
Everybody's on the same page. You get a
374
01:12:56,875 --> 01:13:00,375
stronger team. You get a stronger science
375
01:13:00,375 --> 01:13:02,625
team. You get a stronger lab. You get
376
01:13:02,625 --> 01:13:05,666
stronger policies and journal articles
377
01:13:05,666 --> 01:13:06,875
and everything. You're getting people,
378
01:13:07,416 --> 01:13:08,916
especially when you look at culture and
379
01:13:08,916 --> 01:13:10,416
you look at gender, you're getting people
380
01:13:10,416 --> 01:13:11,750
from looking at different sides.
381
01:13:12,125 --> 01:13:13,250
And especially when you're looking at
382
01:13:13,250 --> 01:13:15,666
conservation and science, you have to
383
01:13:15,666 --> 01:13:17,250
have people with different perspectives.
384
01:13:17,250 --> 01:13:19,875
It challenges the sciences more. And
385
01:13:19,875 --> 01:13:21,333
having those different perspectives,
386
01:13:21,333 --> 01:13:23,583
those diverse perspectives, you end up
387
01:13:23,583 --> 01:13:25,916
having better science because of it.
388
01:13:26,208 --> 01:13:28,833
It's not just from one culture, one
389
01:13:28,833 --> 01:13:30,833
gender. It's from everything. So having
390
01:13:30,833 --> 01:13:32,500
that different group, yes, you may get
391
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:34,250
challenged at certain times, but having
392
01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:35,250
all those different groups, the
393
01:13:35,250 --> 01:13:36,541
challenging makes it better. Science
394
01:13:36,541 --> 01:13:38,291
criticisms are what makes things better
395
01:13:38,291 --> 01:13:39,666
in science. It's what
396
01:13:39,666 --> 01:13:41,083
science is rooted on.
397
01:13:42,041 --> 01:13:44,625
And so if you have a team, right, from
398
01:13:44,625 --> 01:13:45,583
different cultures, different
399
01:13:45,583 --> 01:13:48,458
backgrounds, working together, the
400
01:13:48,458 --> 01:13:50,625
science becomes better. It's just how it
401
01:13:50,625 --> 01:13:53,583
happens. So taking away DEI initiatives
402
01:13:53,583 --> 01:13:55,833
just because of the word DEI or quote
403
01:13:55,833 --> 01:13:59,625
unquote woke ideologies takes away the
404
01:13:59,625 --> 01:14:00,625
strength of the science.
405
01:14:01,625 --> 01:14:06,000
And it goes back 10, 20, 30, 40 years to
406
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,333
a time where people who give out the
407
01:14:08,333 --> 01:14:11,708
grants can show their biases towards
408
01:14:11,708 --> 01:14:13,916
people who look like me because they
409
01:14:13,916 --> 01:14:16,250
think that, you know, people like me only
410
01:14:16,250 --> 01:14:17,875
have the education, only have the ability
411
01:14:17,875 --> 01:14:19,625
to go forth, which is not true.
412
01:14:20,125 --> 01:14:21,416
There are so many other people. If you
413
01:14:21,416 --> 01:14:23,791
look at any university, especially now in
414
01:14:23,791 --> 01:14:26,000
Canada, it is so diverse. There are so
415
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,916
many people who are brilliant, who are
416
01:14:27,916 --> 01:14:30,125
intelligent, who are hardworking, who are
417
01:14:30,125 --> 01:14:32,083
ready to do conservation, whether it be
418
01:14:32,083 --> 01:14:32,833
in the marine realm
419
01:14:32,833 --> 01:14:34,083
or the wildlife realm.
420
01:14:34,666 --> 01:14:36,833
And they are great scientists and they're
421
01:14:36,833 --> 01:14:38,583
going to be great scientists, but they
422
01:14:38,583 --> 01:14:39,791
can't be great scientists if they don't
423
01:14:39,791 --> 01:14:40,833
get the same opportunity
424
01:14:40,833 --> 01:14:42,083
as people who look like me.
425
01:14:42,125 --> 01:14:44,125
That's really what it comes down to. So
426
01:14:44,125 --> 01:14:46,541
having a platform, a political platform
427
01:14:46,541 --> 01:14:49,250
where the conservative party who have a
428
01:14:49,250 --> 01:14:50,958
chance of getting into power, all the
429
01:14:50,958 --> 01:14:51,833
polls say suggests
430
01:14:51,833 --> 01:14:53,166
otherwise, but you never know.
431
01:14:53,458 --> 01:14:56,291
It's going to be a close race. Say that,
432
01:14:56,291 --> 01:14:58,750
hey, you know what? Like, we're just
433
01:14:58,750 --> 01:15:00,458
going to take this DEI initiative away.
434
01:15:00,458 --> 01:15:01,541
We're going to go back to what we were
435
01:15:01,541 --> 01:15:02,541
doing before because we
436
01:15:02,541 --> 01:15:03,875
did it better. Now we didn't.
437
01:15:04,125 --> 01:15:06,708
There's no suggestion that we did things
438
01:15:06,708 --> 01:15:07,541
better back then when
439
01:15:07,541 --> 01:15:08,750
we didn't have the ideas.
440
01:15:09,416 --> 01:15:12,375
But making sure that funding is canceled
441
01:15:12,375 --> 01:15:14,458
for any DNI initiatives could also cancel
442
01:15:14,458 --> 01:15:16,541
funding for science in general. We know
443
01:15:16,541 --> 01:15:18,125
the conservatives are anti climate
444
01:15:18,125 --> 01:15:20,208
change. We know that they tend
445
01:15:20,208 --> 01:15:22,875
to be anti environment anyway.
446
01:15:23,125 --> 01:15:25,375
So it's not going to go towards like
447
01:15:25,375 --> 01:15:27,833
encircles those natural science types of
448
01:15:27,833 --> 01:15:31,500
of funding programs or social science
449
01:15:31,500 --> 01:15:33,500
where you have to include a lot of
450
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:34,791
different groups, local groups,
451
01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:36,500
indigenous groups in this
452
01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:38,583
process for conservation.
453
01:15:39,458 --> 01:15:41,291
Who knows better than to take care of
454
01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:42,375
North America than
455
01:15:42,375 --> 01:15:44,083
Canada than indigenous people.
456
01:15:45,125 --> 01:15:47,250
Right. And so, but if we take it away
457
01:15:47,250 --> 01:15:49,083
where we're not making sure that each
458
01:15:49,083 --> 01:15:51,291
team in each institution or each
459
01:15:51,291 --> 01:15:52,666
nonprofit organization or whoever's
460
01:15:52,666 --> 01:15:54,000
getting that recipient of
461
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:55,500
that of that money that funding.
462
01:15:56,750 --> 01:15:59,583
Now we have nothing, right? We start to
463
01:15:59,583 --> 01:16:01,041
lose those groups. They're not included
464
01:16:01,041 --> 01:16:02,083
in those groups. And we start getting
465
01:16:02,083 --> 01:16:04,541
back into parachute science. We start
466
01:16:04,541 --> 01:16:05,791
getting back into more
467
01:16:05,791 --> 01:16:07,083
selfish science and it's not good.
468
01:16:07,125 --> 01:16:10,083
Collaboration is key. DIs part of that.
469
01:16:10,083 --> 01:16:11,208
Whether you want to call it D I or not,
470
01:16:11,208 --> 01:16:12,833
you still have to do it. And there's
471
01:16:12,833 --> 01:16:14,833
still an opportunity to do that for every
472
01:16:14,833 --> 01:16:16,916
institution. Right. To say, you know
473
01:16:16,916 --> 01:16:18,000
what, we're just going to continue our
474
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:18,833
programs. We just may
475
01:16:18,833 --> 01:16:19,958
name it something different.
476
01:16:20,458 --> 01:16:21,833
But we're going to continue our programs,
477
01:16:21,833 --> 01:16:23,541
but it takes away from people who may
478
01:16:23,541 --> 01:16:25,250
have some opportunity. And that's what I
479
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:27,166
want to talk about today. So here's
480
01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:28,250
what's going to happen. Essentially, the
481
01:16:28,250 --> 01:16:30,291
implications of this proposal is that
482
01:16:30,291 --> 01:16:31,916
peer poly has proposal to eliminate
483
01:16:31,916 --> 01:16:33,833
funding tied to any kind of quote unquote
484
01:16:33,833 --> 01:16:36,125
woke policies has sparked debate within the academic community.
485
01:16:37,125 --> 01:16:40,333
Critics are quit critics argue that such
486
01:16:40,333 --> 01:16:42,875
a move could undermine efforts to address
487
01:16:42,875 --> 01:16:45,208
historical inequities in academia and
488
01:16:45,208 --> 01:16:47,500
diminish the quality of and relevant of
489
01:16:47,500 --> 01:16:49,458
Canadian research at the global stage.
490
01:16:50,208 --> 01:16:51,291
Supporters, however, contend that
491
01:16:51,291 --> 01:16:53,125
research funding should be allocated
492
01:16:53,125 --> 01:16:55,291
based solely on scientific merit without
493
01:16:55,291 --> 01:16:57,291
considerations of identity politics.
494
01:16:57,500 --> 01:16:59,958
Here's the problem with that. We tried to
495
01:16:59,958 --> 01:17:01,083
do that before and it didn't work.
496
01:17:01,125 --> 01:17:03,208
We tried to do that before and we saw
497
01:17:03,208 --> 01:17:05,208
biases. Hence why we put in these D I
498
01:17:05,208 --> 01:17:07,833
policies. That's why we're putting it in.
499
01:17:08,208 --> 01:17:10,250
It wasn't working like that before.
500
01:17:10,750 --> 01:17:11,708
Everybody's like, well, should be on
501
01:17:11,708 --> 01:17:14,041
scientific merit. Yes, it should be.
502
01:17:14,833 --> 01:17:16,333
But when you look at the recipients back
503
01:17:16,333 --> 01:17:18,500
in the day, we're starting to, we started
504
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,458
to see the biases. It was all white
505
01:17:20,458 --> 01:17:22,750
people, white men. We know this is a
506
01:17:22,750 --> 01:17:24,000
problem. We knew this is a problem. We
507
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:25,750
did studies on this. And now you're just
508
01:17:25,750 --> 01:17:27,208
taking it away because people are sick of
509
01:17:27,208 --> 01:17:28,083
hearing about welcome D.
510
01:17:28,125 --> 01:17:31,291
I guess who's sick about it. Yes, guess
511
01:17:31,291 --> 01:17:32,916
the people who are sick about it. It
512
01:17:32,916 --> 01:17:35,666
drives me nuts to see this. And yes, I
513
01:17:35,666 --> 01:17:38,666
agree that some policies go way too far
514
01:17:38,666 --> 01:17:41,208
to the other extreme. We need to find in
515
01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:43,041
the middle, but it's should still be on
516
01:17:43,041 --> 01:17:44,875
scientific merit, but making sure that
517
01:17:44,875 --> 01:17:45,791
everybody's included.
518
01:17:47,250 --> 01:17:49,250
Part of the D.I. Make sure it's diverse.
519
01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:50,541
Make sure it works. Make sure you're
520
01:17:50,541 --> 01:17:52,416
getting different perspectives. Make sure
521
01:17:52,416 --> 01:17:55,416
that teams are built based on diversity,
522
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:56,666
equity and inclusion.
523
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,000
That's all I have to say today. And so
524
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,041
take that in mind if that's something
525
01:18:02,041 --> 01:18:04,291
that's important to you when you actually
526
01:18:04,291 --> 01:18:06,083
go and vote today for my
527
01:18:06,083 --> 01:18:07,083
Canadian audience here.
528
01:18:07,125 --> 01:18:09,500
Because I think it's important. I'd love
529
01:18:09,500 --> 01:18:11,041
to hear your thoughts. Let me know in the
530
01:18:11,041 --> 01:18:12,625
comments below if you're watching this on
531
01:18:12,625 --> 01:18:15,791
YouTube or hit me up on Instagram at how
532
01:18:15,791 --> 01:18:16,791
to protect the ocean. That's
533
01:18:16,791 --> 01:18:18,000
at how to protect the ocean.
534
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,583
Just DM me or if you want to email me, go
535
01:18:19,583 --> 01:18:21,375
to speak up for blue dot com. Hit the
536
01:18:21,375 --> 01:18:23,541
contact page that goes right to fill out
537
01:18:23,541 --> 01:18:25,791
the form that goes right into my inbox.
538
01:18:26,708 --> 01:18:29,208
Good luck with the voting. I hope a
539
01:18:29,208 --> 01:18:30,666
certain party wins. I'm not going to tell
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01:18:30,666 --> 01:18:31,083
you who you can kind of tell.
541
01:18:31,208 --> 01:18:34,000
But regardless, you know, go vote
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01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,666
exercise your vote to win and let's just
543
01:18:36,666 --> 01:18:38,333
keep making sure that science is funded
544
01:18:38,333 --> 01:18:40,541
for everybody, not just for one
545
01:18:40,541 --> 01:18:42,666
particular person or identity.
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01:18:43,333 --> 01:18:44,333
Thank you so much for joining me on
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01:18:44,333 --> 01:18:45,791
today's episode of the how to protect the
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01:18:45,791 --> 01:18:47,333
ocean podcast. I'm your host, Angelou and
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01:18:47,333 --> 01:18:48,500
have a great day. We'll talk to you next
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01:18:48,500 --> 01:18:50,125
time and happy conservation.
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,625
This episode is a rant.
2
01:00:01,875 --> 01:00:04,666
And it's a rant about defunding science
3
01:00:05,041 --> 01:00:07,416
due to DEI programs.
4
01:00:08,083 --> 01:00:10,083
We have a Canadian election going on,
5
01:00:10,083 --> 01:00:10,750
a federal Canadian
6
01:00:10,750 --> 01:00:12,541
election going on here in Canada.
7
01:00:13,291 --> 01:00:14,541
And there's been talk
8
01:00:14,541 --> 01:00:15,666
on the conservative side
9
01:00:15,708 --> 01:00:17,916
about defunding programs
10
01:00:17,916 --> 01:00:20,125
within Canadian context
11
01:00:20,125 --> 01:00:22,541
like funding agencies that
12
01:00:22,541 --> 01:00:24,666
have to do with DEI programs.
13
01:00:25,458 --> 01:00:27,500
This is not good for science.
14
01:00:27,833 --> 01:00:29,250
This is not good for
15
01:00:29,250 --> 01:00:30,583
elevating communities
16
01:00:30,750 --> 01:00:31,750
that need to be elevated
17
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:33,500
and making science better
18
01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:34,666
here in Canada.
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01:00:34,666 --> 01:00:35,041
We're going to talk
20
01:00:35,041 --> 01:00:36,166
about that on today's episode
21
01:00:36,166 --> 01:00:37,583
of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
22
01:00:38,166 --> 01:00:39,041
Let's start the show.
23
01:00:44,041 --> 01:00:44,833
Hey everybody, welcome back
24
01:00:44,833 --> 01:00:45,791
to another exciting episode
25
01:00:45,791 --> 01:00:47,125
of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
26
01:00:47,416 --> 01:00:48,416
I am your host, Andrew Lewin.
27
01:00:48,666 --> 01:00:49,791
And this is the podcast where we find out
28
01:00:49,791 --> 01:00:50,791
what's happening with the ocean,
29
01:00:50,791 --> 01:00:52,208
how you can speak up for the ocean,
30
01:00:52,500 --> 01:00:53,333
and what you can do to
31
01:00:53,333 --> 01:00:54,583
live for a better ocean
32
01:00:54,750 --> 01:00:55,916
by taking action.
33
01:00:56,375 --> 01:00:57,291
Now in today's episode, we're going to be
34
01:00:57,291 --> 01:00:58,666
talking about politics.
35
01:00:59,541 --> 01:01:01,541
Politics and science to be specific,
36
01:01:01,541 --> 01:01:03,958
and also looking at DEI programs.
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01:01:04,291 --> 01:01:05,166
This is not going to be
38
01:01:05,166 --> 01:01:06,833
like a hugely political post,
39
01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:08,541
but there is a Canadian
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01:01:08,541 --> 01:01:10,125
federal election that's going on.
41
01:01:10,125 --> 01:01:11,041
And one of the parties, the
42
01:01:11,041 --> 01:01:12,208
conservative party leader,
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01:01:12,708 --> 01:01:15,000
Pierre Poliev came out last week
44
01:01:15,375 --> 01:01:18,041
talking about defunding science,
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01:01:19,041 --> 01:01:20,708
I guess projects and science grants
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01:01:21,041 --> 01:01:23,333
based on DEI initiatives.
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01:01:23,958 --> 01:01:26,208
This is scary to me because I don't know
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01:01:26,291 --> 01:01:27,583
if it's trying to end
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01:01:27,583 --> 01:01:28,833
quote unquote woke ism,
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01:01:29,083 --> 01:01:31,458
or if it's just trying to use that as an
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01:01:31,458 --> 01:01:33,041
excuse to defund science.
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01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:35,291
Either way, both is bad.
53
01:01:35,291 --> 01:01:35,875
And we're going to talk
54
01:01:35,875 --> 01:01:37,958
about why that's bad today.
55
01:01:37,958 --> 01:01:39,625
And we're going to be talking about also
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01:01:39,625 --> 01:01:42,750
how Canada can separate itself
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01:01:42,958 --> 01:01:45,250
from our neighbors down south in terms of
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01:01:45,250 --> 01:01:46,250
their thought process.
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01:01:46,583 --> 01:01:48,375
I've always felt that Canada as a
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01:01:48,375 --> 01:01:49,833
Canadian growing up here in Canada,
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01:01:50,291 --> 01:01:52,750
we have really changed our tune in terms,
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01:01:53,125 --> 01:01:54,791
especially when it comes to human rights.
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01:01:54,833 --> 01:01:59,583
We voted on the approval and the
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01:01:59,583 --> 01:02:02,000
institution of marriage for LGBTQ plus
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01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,291
people a long time ago.
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01:02:04,625 --> 01:02:06,750
Unfortunately, that's come back and we
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01:02:06,750 --> 01:02:08,833
see a lot of hateful things
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01:02:08,833 --> 01:02:10,958
said against LGBTQ community.
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01:02:11,458 --> 01:02:12,875
We're also seeing, we've seen the
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01:02:12,875 --> 01:02:15,166
advancement of DEI
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01:02:15,166 --> 01:02:17,458
initiatives within this country,
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01:02:17,500 --> 01:02:19,708
although it's not perfect by any means,
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01:02:19,708 --> 01:02:20,916
but we've seen that advancement.
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01:02:20,916 --> 01:02:23,208
And now we're starting to see the talk of
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01:02:23,208 --> 01:02:26,958
woke ism and being woke and DEI all being
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01:02:26,958 --> 01:02:28,708
lumped in the middle as a bad thing,
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01:02:29,250 --> 01:02:31,458
you know, where it's which I find really
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01:02:31,458 --> 01:02:33,958
crazy because all it's trying to do is
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01:02:33,958 --> 01:02:36,375
put everybody on the same plane by
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01:02:36,375 --> 01:02:39,000
lifting up communities that haven't been
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01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,208
lifted up before or haven't had the
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01:02:41,208 --> 01:02:42,000
chance or the
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01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,708
opportunity to be lifted up before.
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01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,125
So it's it's putting everybody on a
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01:02:46,125 --> 01:02:48,833
similar plane by a similar plane by like
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01:02:48,833 --> 01:02:50,166
just basically lifting this up.
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01:02:50,666 --> 01:02:51,583
This episode is going
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01:02:51,583 --> 01:02:53,541
to be a bit of a rant.
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01:02:53,541 --> 01:02:54,500
It's not going to be edited.
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01:02:54,500 --> 01:02:55,458
I'm putting this out last minute.
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01:02:55,458 --> 01:02:56,125
I had an episode.
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01:02:56,500 --> 01:02:58,333
Truthfully, I had an episode already
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01:02:58,333 --> 01:02:59,541
planned about the U.S.
94
01:02:59,541 --> 01:03:01,291
and their energy policy that's coming out
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01:03:01,291 --> 01:03:04,833
about rolling back, you know, policies
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01:03:04,833 --> 01:03:07,583
and regulations and laws so that they can
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01:03:07,583 --> 01:03:09,833
really put forward on drilling oil and
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01:03:09,833 --> 01:03:13,041
gas and lessening the green energy like
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01:03:13,041 --> 01:03:14,125
wind power offshore.
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01:03:15,208 --> 01:03:16,500
Not fun, but where you'll you'll hear
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01:03:16,500 --> 01:03:18,125
that on Wednesday because today I wanted
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01:03:18,125 --> 01:03:20,833
to talk about this dei initiative and
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01:03:20,833 --> 01:03:24,208
defunding science that have dei policies.
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01:03:25,250 --> 01:03:26,458
It within the federal government that
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01:03:26,458 --> 01:03:27,833
federal government kind of put together,
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01:03:27,833 --> 01:03:30,458
which is a lot of academic and a lot of
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01:03:30,458 --> 01:03:32,208
nonprofit organizations that are working
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01:03:32,208 --> 01:03:34,125
on not only oceans, but just nature in
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01:03:34,125 --> 01:03:36,750
general and wildlife biology and
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01:03:36,750 --> 01:03:39,000
conservation biology in general as law as
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01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:40,125
well as medical and all
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01:03:40,125 --> 01:03:41,541
social science and so forth.
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01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:42,958
There's a lot of science that gets funded
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01:03:42,958 --> 01:03:46,041
through these programs, but we need to
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01:03:46,041 --> 01:03:48,833
talk about today because the party that
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01:03:48,833 --> 01:03:51,875
could be as like the party in power for
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01:03:51,875 --> 01:03:54,375
Canada is the conservative party is
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01:03:54,375 --> 01:03:55,625
putting together this.
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01:03:55,625 --> 01:03:57,625
They've proposed this plan to defund
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01:03:57,625 --> 01:04:00,666
science based on whether that
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01:04:00,666 --> 01:04:02,916
program has a dei initiative.
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01:04:03,500 --> 01:04:04,583
Essentially, that's
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01:04:04,583 --> 01:04:05,416
essentially what they want to do.
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01:04:05,458 --> 01:04:06,666
One of the things that they want to do
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01:04:06,666 --> 01:04:08,958
and it's not the I hate to say it, but
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01:04:08,958 --> 01:04:11,958
it's not the biggest issue that's in the
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01:04:11,958 --> 01:04:14,166
the overall issues like the economy,
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01:04:14,166 --> 01:04:17,208
tariffs, sovereignty of Canada, you know,
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01:04:17,208 --> 01:04:18,916
the fact that we want our independence on
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01:04:18,916 --> 01:04:20,000
oil and gas that we're not
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01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:21,041
just selling it to the US.
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01:04:21,416 --> 01:04:22,541
There's a lot of stuff that's happening
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01:04:22,541 --> 01:04:24,958
in Canada and this as well as the
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01:04:24,958 --> 01:04:27,333
environment unfortunately does not get
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01:04:27,333 --> 01:04:29,708
the attention that it deserves.
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01:04:29,708 --> 01:04:32,291
It may not be what everybody wants to
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01:04:32,291 --> 01:04:35,375
talk about or vote on when
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01:04:35,375 --> 01:04:36,375
we're looking at this election.
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01:04:36,666 --> 01:04:38,666
However, this is important to me is
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01:04:38,666 --> 01:04:40,916
important to the people who are in Canada
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01:04:40,916 --> 01:04:43,000
who listen to this podcast and I want to
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01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,083
make it clear about what they want to do
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01:04:46,083 --> 01:04:48,083
what the conservative party have proposed
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01:04:48,083 --> 01:04:50,375
to do because I feel like today is the
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01:04:50,375 --> 01:04:51,458
day, you know, where
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01:04:51,458 --> 01:04:52,291
it's the last day to vote.
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01:04:52,791 --> 01:04:54,416
You know, you got to put in your vote.
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01:04:54,416 --> 01:04:55,583
Everybody go vote doesn't matter who you
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01:04:55,583 --> 01:04:57,041
vote for, but everybody go vote.
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01:04:57,500 --> 01:05:00,625
But understand what this party wants to
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01:05:00,625 --> 01:05:03,416
do to our scientific grant and funding
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01:05:03,416 --> 01:05:05,541
agencies and what it's going to limit and
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01:05:05,541 --> 01:05:07,208
how bad that's going to be.
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01:05:07,250 --> 01:05:09,208
So first off, you know, Pierre Poliev,
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01:05:09,208 --> 01:05:10,125
who's the leader of the Canadian
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01:05:10,125 --> 01:05:13,375
Conservative Party, has led, has pledged
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01:05:13,375 --> 01:05:15,875
to eliminate what he terms as woke
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01:05:15,875 --> 01:05:17,541
ideology from the federal research
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01:05:17,541 --> 01:05:20,125
funding, particularly targeting policies
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01:05:20,125 --> 01:05:22,208
related to equity, diversity and
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01:05:22,208 --> 01:05:24,500
inclusion, EDI or DEI as many people
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01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:27,166
refer to in science and academia.
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01:05:27,625 --> 01:05:29,875
So this stance has raised concerns among
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01:05:29,875 --> 01:05:32,166
academic institutions and researchers who
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01:05:32,166 --> 01:05:34,541
emphasize the importance of DEI in
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01:05:34,541 --> 01:05:36,333
fostering inclusion and innovative
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01:05:36,333 --> 01:05:37,625
research environments.
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01:05:38,208 --> 01:05:40,583
So this is what's essentially happened in
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01:05:40,583 --> 01:05:42,750
the past before the initiatives happen.
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01:05:43,583 --> 01:05:47,625
There is a big push and a lot of demand
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01:05:47,625 --> 01:05:50,958
for making sure that granting agencies
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01:05:50,958 --> 01:05:52,916
and funding agencies from the federal
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01:05:52,916 --> 01:05:55,625
government would disperse the money
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01:05:55,625 --> 01:05:58,250
equally through like a DEI initiatives,
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01:05:58,750 --> 01:05:59,791
essentially making sure that the money
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01:05:59,791 --> 01:06:03,000
went to a diverse, make sure that it was
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01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,416
equal and there was equity in the
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01:06:06,416 --> 01:06:09,000
distribution of the funds as well as it
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01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:10,541
makes sure it's inclusive to everybody.
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01:06:10,583 --> 01:06:12,541
So it's not just people who look like me
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01:06:12,541 --> 01:06:14,166
who are getting these funds, which was
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01:06:14,166 --> 01:06:16,000
happening, whether we like it or not,
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01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,291
that was happening back in the 70s, 80s,
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01:06:18,291 --> 01:06:20,750
probably even before that 70, 90s, 2000s.
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01:06:20,750 --> 01:06:22,708
It's still probably happening today.
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01:06:23,208 --> 01:06:24,750
And so what the federal government did
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01:06:24,750 --> 01:06:27,291
was put in these DEI initiatives so that
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01:06:27,291 --> 01:06:29,583
programs that were applying this, so
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01:06:29,583 --> 01:06:31,000
whether it be academic or whether it be
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01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:32,666
nonprofit or any kind of non governmental
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01:06:32,666 --> 01:06:35,208
organizations, if they wanted to get
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01:06:35,208 --> 01:06:37,333
access to this funding, they had to prove
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01:06:37,333 --> 01:06:40,000
that they're following DEI policies.
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01:06:40,333 --> 01:06:42,083
So that they had DEI policies that they
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01:06:42,083 --> 01:06:43,875
would follow and they had to prove that
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01:06:43,875 --> 01:06:44,583
they were doing this.
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01:06:44,583 --> 01:06:46,416
Now, this doesn't mean that only grants
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01:06:46,416 --> 01:06:48,666
went to minorities or people of color or
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01:06:48,666 --> 01:06:50,583
people in sort of marginalized
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01:06:50,583 --> 01:06:52,875
communities, whether it be gender
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01:06:52,875 --> 01:06:54,291
communities or whether it be cultural
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01:06:54,291 --> 01:06:55,541
communities or race communities.
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01:06:56,208 --> 01:06:57,875
It didn't it didn't matter is everybody
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01:06:57,875 --> 01:07:00,625
was on the same playing field, right?
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01:07:00,875 --> 01:07:03,125
And even though, you know, the science
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01:07:03,125 --> 01:07:04,916
was still great and everything was great.
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01:07:05,208 --> 01:07:06,333
They wanted to make sure that it was
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01:07:06,333 --> 01:07:07,916
still on the same playing field.
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01:07:08,958 --> 01:07:09,791
And that's great. It
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01:07:09,791 --> 01:07:11,000
really worked out great.
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01:07:11,208 --> 01:07:13,500
So essentially what happened is the
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01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:15,791
federal grants incorporating DEI
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01:07:15,791 --> 01:07:18,166
policies, they had several major funding
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01:07:18,166 --> 01:07:19,958
programs administered by Canada's
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01:07:19,958 --> 01:07:22,416
tri-agency, which is comprising of NSERC,
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01:07:23,208 --> 01:07:25,250
SHRC, which is social sciences and NSERC
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01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:26,166
is natural sciences.
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01:07:26,458 --> 01:07:28,541
And then there's CIHR, which to be
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01:07:28,541 --> 01:07:30,291
honest, I'm not too sure what it was, but
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01:07:30,291 --> 01:07:32,500
I think it has to do more with health, I
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01:07:32,500 --> 01:07:34,000
think is more where it comes from.
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01:07:34,291 --> 01:07:37,500
But then they had to have integrated DEI
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01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:39,000
considerations into their frameworks.
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01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:40,416
They had to have equity, diversity and
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01:07:40,416 --> 01:07:41,583
inclusion, institutional
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01:07:41,583 --> 01:07:42,833
capacity building grant.
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01:07:43,291 --> 01:07:44,416
So that was one of the grants.
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01:07:44,958 --> 01:07:46,833
They aims to identify and eliminate
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01:07:46,833 --> 01:07:50,250
systemic barriers that impede the career
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01:07:50,250 --> 01:07:50,916
advancement of
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01:07:50,916 --> 01:07:53,041
underrepresented groups in academia.
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01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:56,333
New Frontiers Research Fund and FRF
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01:07:56,333 --> 01:07:58,500
requires applicants to demonstrate a
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01:07:58,500 --> 01:08:00,375
commitment to DEI in their research
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01:08:00,375 --> 01:08:01,958
practice and team compositions.
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01:08:02,291 --> 01:08:05,250
Canada's excellence research here.
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01:08:05,250 --> 01:08:06,625
So these are research chairs that are
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01:08:06,625 --> 01:08:08,375
like heads of departments, essentially
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01:08:08,375 --> 01:08:10,958
looking at in academia.
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01:08:11,625 --> 01:08:14,125
And this is NSERC and I think two more,
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01:08:14,125 --> 01:08:15,083
two more different ones.
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01:08:16,250 --> 01:08:18,000
I can't remember now, but mandates
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01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:22,250
institutions to maintain up to date
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01:08:22,250 --> 01:08:24,833
equity plans and promote diversity in
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01:08:24,833 --> 01:08:25,833
research leadership.
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01:08:26,291 --> 01:08:28,083
And then the Vanier Canada Graduate
247
01:08:28,083 --> 01:08:29,833
Scholarships and Banting Postdoctoral
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01:08:29,833 --> 01:08:32,250
Fellowships include DEI considerations in
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01:08:32,250 --> 01:08:33,083
their selection criteria
250
01:08:33,083 --> 01:08:35,125
to attract diverse talent.
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01:08:35,750 --> 01:08:37,500
So these programs reflect a broader
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01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:39,166
governmental commitment to fostering
253
01:08:39,166 --> 01:08:41,291
inclusive research environments that
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01:08:41,291 --> 01:08:44,958
leverage diverse perspectives to enhance
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01:08:44,958 --> 01:08:47,291
scientific inquiry and innovation.
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01:08:47,500 --> 01:08:48,125
So here's the thing.
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When you look at science, when you look
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at nature, and I've said this a number of
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01:08:51,291 --> 01:08:53,458
times, diversity matters, right?
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The fact that if you have a diverse
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01:08:55,083 --> 01:08:58,375
environment, I'd say a marine habitat, if
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01:08:58,375 --> 01:09:00,125
it was diverse, if it had coral reefs, it
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01:09:00,125 --> 01:09:02,833
had seagrasses, if it had mangroves, it
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01:09:02,833 --> 01:09:05,750
made it a stronger environment because
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01:09:05,750 --> 01:09:07,916
all those habitats contribute to not only
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01:09:07,916 --> 01:09:09,916
diversity of species by having a habitat
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01:09:09,916 --> 01:09:12,916
that can house all these types of diverse
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01:09:12,916 --> 01:09:15,416
species, but it also like if one of those
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01:09:15,416 --> 01:09:17,125
species is gone of the
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01:09:17,125 --> 01:09:19,000
same like functional group.
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01:09:19,333 --> 01:09:21,583
So say they're like reef builders, then
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you know that there's if there's multiple
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species within that same functional
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01:09:24,708 --> 01:09:26,250
group, you know, if one species is
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01:09:26,250 --> 01:09:28,833
extirpated, so is gone from that area for
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01:09:28,833 --> 01:09:30,625
whatever reason, there are others that
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can do still the same function.
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01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:33,875
Right. But if you only had one species in
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01:09:33,875 --> 01:09:35,000
that functional group, and that species
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disappears from that habitat, then that
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01:09:37,375 --> 01:09:39,083
function is gone. And that could affect
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01:09:39,083 --> 01:09:41,583
the entire dynamic of the marine habitat.
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01:09:42,083 --> 01:09:44,625
So diversity in nature is important,
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you're looking even from genetic
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01:09:45,958 --> 01:09:48,666
diversity, if you have a species that's
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01:09:48,666 --> 01:09:51,583
in that's endangered, and you have you
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01:09:51,583 --> 01:09:53,333
preserve a number of the different
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01:09:53,333 --> 01:09:55,333
genetics of the diversity of genetics, so
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01:09:55,333 --> 01:09:57,291
a number of different genetic makeup, you
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01:09:57,291 --> 01:09:59,125
know that if you ever have to repopulate
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01:09:59,125 --> 01:10:01,166
that population, you know that if you
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01:10:01,166 --> 01:10:04,375
have a diverse set of genes in each
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01:10:04,375 --> 01:10:06,583
species or each population, then that
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diversity will will survive longer
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01:10:09,208 --> 01:10:10,625
because just the process of natural science,
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01:10:10,666 --> 01:10:12,250
just the process of natural selection,
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01:10:12,916 --> 01:10:15,166
one particular set of genes could survive
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01:10:15,166 --> 01:10:16,833
better than another particular set of
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01:10:16,833 --> 01:10:18,916
genes. And so having those sets of genes
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01:10:18,916 --> 01:10:22,333
work together and be able to say which of
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01:10:22,333 --> 01:10:24,291
the populations are going to survive
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01:10:24,291 --> 01:10:26,208
based on a genetic diversity, that's
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01:10:26,208 --> 01:10:29,791
really important. So we have proof that
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01:10:29,791 --> 01:10:31,708
genetic diversity, just diversity in
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01:10:31,708 --> 01:10:34,333
general, from a species, from a genetic
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01:10:34,333 --> 01:10:35,666
level, from a species level, from a
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01:10:35,666 --> 01:10:37,291
habitat level, from an ecosystem level,
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01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:39,083
makes the environment stronger.
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01:10:40,083 --> 01:10:42,125
It makes it stronger. So remember that.
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Now when you're talking about a team, a
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01:10:45,458 --> 01:10:47,833
team makes it stronger, like if diversity
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01:10:47,833 --> 01:10:49,875
makes and inclusion, making sure
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01:10:49,875 --> 01:10:51,958
everybody's included, make sure that
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01:10:51,958 --> 01:10:55,500
everything is stronger. Take football, I
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01:10:55,500 --> 01:10:57,458
love football, draft is on as I'm
316
01:10:57,458 --> 01:10:59,625
recording this, it's great to see all
317
01:10:59,625 --> 01:11:02,291
these different positions really matter.
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01:11:03,458 --> 01:11:07,166
If you have a strong O line, an offensive
319
01:11:07,166 --> 01:11:09,375
line, your offense is going to be great.
320
01:11:09,708 --> 01:11:11,541
If you have great receivers, your offense
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01:11:11,541 --> 01:11:14,041
is going to be great. If you and your
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01:11:14,041 --> 01:11:15,208
quarterback is going to be great because
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01:11:15,208 --> 01:11:16,708
you have a great offensive line. They
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01:11:16,708 --> 01:11:19,166
allow for the quarterback to have the
325
01:11:19,166 --> 01:11:20,375
time to decide which
326
01:11:20,375 --> 01:11:21,708
receiver to throw to.
327
01:11:22,208 --> 01:11:23,791
If you don't have a good offensive line,
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01:11:24,416 --> 01:11:26,375
defensive lines comes in, they sack the
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01:11:26,375 --> 01:11:27,708
quarterback, you can't throw, you don't
330
01:11:27,708 --> 01:11:29,208
have, you basically have a crappy
331
01:11:29,208 --> 01:11:30,875
offense. You don't want a crappy offense.
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01:11:31,291 --> 01:11:34,291
But having each or one of those groups be
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01:11:34,291 --> 01:11:37,333
good or be solid, right? And having a
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01:11:37,333 --> 01:11:42,208
diverse set of good, strong positions and
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01:11:42,208 --> 01:11:43,666
positional groups, you are
336
01:11:43,666 --> 01:11:44,666
going to have a better team.
337
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:46,833
But if you don't have those strong
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01:11:46,833 --> 01:11:48,125
positional groups or you're missing a
339
01:11:48,125 --> 01:11:51,000
positional group, you're not very good.
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01:11:51,583 --> 01:11:53,541
Case in point, a couple years ago, my San
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01:11:53,541 --> 01:11:55,416
Francisco 49ers were in the NFC
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01:11:55,416 --> 01:11:57,333
Championship playing the Philadelphia
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01:11:57,333 --> 01:11:59,958
Eagles. The winner goes on to play Kansas
344
01:11:59,958 --> 01:12:01,583
City Chiefs for the second time in a row
345
01:12:01,583 --> 01:12:02,875
for the Niners. Niners had
346
01:12:02,875 --> 01:12:04,083
just gotten to the Super Bowl.
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01:12:04,458 --> 01:12:06,208
Okay, so now they're going against a
348
01:12:06,208 --> 01:12:08,750
great team. They're a great team. They
349
01:12:08,750 --> 01:12:11,291
lose their quarterback in the first
350
01:12:11,291 --> 01:12:13,708
quarter, second quarter. Lose him. He
351
01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:17,000
can't throw anymore. He can only run. And
352
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,291
even then, he's hurting. His arm is UCL
353
01:12:19,291 --> 01:12:21,958
is basically torn. Can't throw far, can't
354
01:12:21,958 --> 01:12:23,541
throw it all. They don't have another
355
01:12:23,541 --> 01:12:24,166
quarterback because all their
356
01:12:24,166 --> 01:12:24,791
quarterback's got to do.
357
01:12:25,125 --> 01:12:26,750
One more quarterback, he goes in, he gets
358
01:12:26,750 --> 01:12:28,166
a concussion, he's out of the game. They
359
01:12:28,166 --> 01:12:29,250
don't have any more quarterbacks. They
360
01:12:29,250 --> 01:12:30,875
have to use their running back as a
361
01:12:30,875 --> 01:12:32,833
quarterback. And all they do is run the
362
01:12:32,833 --> 01:12:34,500
ball. They can't run and throw because
363
01:12:34,500 --> 01:12:35,541
they don't have the quarterback. They're
364
01:12:35,541 --> 01:12:36,750
losing that diversity.
365
01:12:37,541 --> 01:12:38,875
Right? They lost that positional group
366
01:12:38,875 --> 01:12:40,750
that actually makes it matter. I'm taking
367
01:12:40,750 --> 01:12:42,541
this analogy way too far. Draft is on
368
01:12:42,541 --> 01:12:44,625
really hot in my head. But you get the
369
01:12:44,625 --> 01:12:47,250
point. The point is that diversity,
370
01:12:48,250 --> 01:12:49,583
making sure that everybody's included,
371
01:12:49,583 --> 01:12:50,375
making sure that everything
372
01:12:50,375 --> 01:12:52,416
is like the equity is there.
373
01:12:53,791 --> 01:12:56,875
Everybody's on the same page. You get a
374
01:12:56,875 --> 01:13:00,375
stronger team. You get a stronger science
375
01:13:00,375 --> 01:13:02,625
team. You get a stronger lab. You get
376
01:13:02,625 --> 01:13:05,666
stronger policies and journal articles
377
01:13:05,666 --> 01:13:06,875
and everything. You're getting people,
378
01:13:07,416 --> 01:13:08,916
especially when you look at culture and
379
01:13:08,916 --> 01:13:10,416
you look at gender, you're getting people
380
01:13:10,416 --> 01:13:11,750
from looking at different sides.
381
01:13:12,125 --> 01:13:13,250
And especially when you're looking at
382
01:13:13,250 --> 01:13:15,666
conservation and science, you have to
383
01:13:15,666 --> 01:13:17,250
have people with different perspectives.
384
01:13:17,250 --> 01:13:19,875
It challenges the sciences more. And
385
01:13:19,875 --> 01:13:21,333
having those different perspectives,
386
01:13:21,333 --> 01:13:23,583
those diverse perspectives, you end up
387
01:13:23,583 --> 01:13:25,916
having better science because of it.
388
01:13:26,208 --> 01:13:28,833
It's not just from one culture, one
389
01:13:28,833 --> 01:13:30,833
gender. It's from everything. So having
390
01:13:30,833 --> 01:13:32,500
that different group, yes, you may get
391
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:34,250
challenged at certain times, but having
392
01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:35,250
all those different groups, the
393
01:13:35,250 --> 01:13:36,541
challenging makes it better. Science
394
01:13:36,541 --> 01:13:38,291
criticisms are what makes things better
395
01:13:38,291 --> 01:13:39,666
in science. It's what
396
01:13:39,666 --> 01:13:41,083
science is rooted on.
397
01:13:42,041 --> 01:13:44,625
And so if you have a team, right, from
398
01:13:44,625 --> 01:13:45,583
different cultures, different
399
01:13:45,583 --> 01:13:48,458
backgrounds, working together, the
400
01:13:48,458 --> 01:13:50,625
science becomes better. It's just how it
401
01:13:50,625 --> 01:13:53,583
happens. So taking away DEI initiatives
402
01:13:53,583 --> 01:13:55,833
just because of the word DEI or quote
403
01:13:55,833 --> 01:13:59,625
unquote woke ideologies takes away the
404
01:13:59,625 --> 01:14:00,625
strength of the science.
405
01:14:01,625 --> 01:14:06,000
And it goes back 10, 20, 30, 40 years to
406
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:08,333
a time where people who give out the
407
01:14:08,333 --> 01:14:11,708
grants can show their biases towards
408
01:14:11,708 --> 01:14:13,916
people who look like me because they
409
01:14:13,916 --> 01:14:16,250
think that, you know, people like me only
410
01:14:16,250 --> 01:14:17,875
have the education, only have the ability
411
01:14:17,875 --> 01:14:19,625
to go forth, which is not true.
412
01:14:20,125 --> 01:14:21,416
There are so many other people. If you
413
01:14:21,416 --> 01:14:23,791
look at any university, especially now in
414
01:14:23,791 --> 01:14:26,000
Canada, it is so diverse. There are so
415
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,916
many people who are brilliant, who are
416
01:14:27,916 --> 01:14:30,125
intelligent, who are hardworking, who are
417
01:14:30,125 --> 01:14:32,083
ready to do conservation, whether it be
418
01:14:32,083 --> 01:14:32,833
in the marine realm
419
01:14:32,833 --> 01:14:34,083
or the wildlife realm.
420
01:14:34,666 --> 01:14:36,833
And they are great scientists and they're
421
01:14:36,833 --> 01:14:38,583
going to be great scientists, but they
422
01:14:38,583 --> 01:14:39,791
can't be great scientists if they don't
423
01:14:39,791 --> 01:14:40,833
get the same opportunity
424
01:14:40,833 --> 01:14:42,083
as people who look like me.
425
01:14:42,125 --> 01:14:44,125
That's really what it comes down to. So
426
01:14:44,125 --> 01:14:46,541
having a platform, a political platform
427
01:14:46,541 --> 01:14:49,250
where the conservative party who have a
428
01:14:49,250 --> 01:14:50,958
chance of getting into power, all the
429
01:14:50,958 --> 01:14:51,833
polls say suggests
430
01:14:51,833 --> 01:14:53,166
otherwise, but you never know.
431
01:14:53,458 --> 01:14:56,291
It's going to be a close race. Say that,
432
01:14:56,291 --> 01:14:58,750
hey, you know what? Like, we're just
433
01:14:58,750 --> 01:15:00,458
going to take this DEI initiative away.
434
01:15:00,458 --> 01:15:01,541
We're going to go back to what we were
435
01:15:01,541 --> 01:15:02,541
doing before because we
436
01:15:02,541 --> 01:15:03,875
did it better. Now we didn't.
437
01:15:04,125 --> 01:15:06,708
There's no suggestion that we did things
438
01:15:06,708 --> 01:15:07,541
better back then when
439
01:15:07,541 --> 01:15:08,750
we didn't have the ideas.
440
01:15:09,416 --> 01:15:12,375
But making sure that funding is canceled
441
01:15:12,375 --> 01:15:14,458
for any DNI initiatives could also cancel
442
01:15:14,458 --> 01:15:16,541
funding for science in general. We know
443
01:15:16,541 --> 01:15:18,125
the conservatives are anti climate
444
01:15:18,125 --> 01:15:20,208
change. We know that they tend
445
01:15:20,208 --> 01:15:22,875
to be anti environment anyway.
446
01:15:23,125 --> 01:15:25,375
So it's not going to go towards like
447
01:15:25,375 --> 01:15:27,833
encircles those natural science types of
448
01:15:27,833 --> 01:15:31,500
of funding programs or social science
449
01:15:31,500 --> 01:15:33,500
where you have to include a lot of
450
01:15:33,500 --> 01:15:34,791
different groups, local groups,
451
01:15:34,791 --> 01:15:36,500
indigenous groups in this
452
01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:38,583
process for conservation.
453
01:15:39,458 --> 01:15:41,291
Who knows better than to take care of
454
01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:42,375
North America than
455
01:15:42,375 --> 01:15:44,083
Canada than indigenous people.
456
01:15:45,125 --> 01:15:47,250
Right. And so, but if we take it away
457
01:15:47,250 --> 01:15:49,083
where we're not making sure that each
458
01:15:49,083 --> 01:15:51,291
team in each institution or each
459
01:15:51,291 --> 01:15:52,666
nonprofit organization or whoever's
460
01:15:52,666 --> 01:15:54,000
getting that recipient of
461
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:55,500
that of that money that funding.
462
01:15:56,750 --> 01:15:59,583
Now we have nothing, right? We start to
463
01:15:59,583 --> 01:16:01,041
lose those groups. They're not included
464
01:16:01,041 --> 01:16:02,083
in those groups. And we start getting
465
01:16:02,083 --> 01:16:04,541
back into parachute science. We start
466
01:16:04,541 --> 01:16:05,791
getting back into more
467
01:16:05,791 --> 01:16:07,083
selfish science and it's not good.
468
01:16:07,125 --> 01:16:10,083
Collaboration is key. DIs part of that.
469
01:16:10,083 --> 01:16:11,208
Whether you want to call it D I or not,
470
01:16:11,208 --> 01:16:12,833
you still have to do it. And there's
471
01:16:12,833 --> 01:16:14,833
still an opportunity to do that for every
472
01:16:14,833 --> 01:16:16,916
institution. Right. To say, you know
473
01:16:16,916 --> 01:16:18,000
what, we're just going to continue our
474
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:18,833
programs. We just may
475
01:16:18,833 --> 01:16:19,958
name it something different.
476
01:16:20,458 --> 01:16:21,833
But we're going to continue our programs,
477
01:16:21,833 --> 01:16:23,541
but it takes away from people who may
478
01:16:23,541 --> 01:16:25,250
have some opportunity. And that's what I
479
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:27,166
want to talk about today. So here's
480
01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:28,250
what's going to happen. Essentially, the
481
01:16:28,250 --> 01:16:30,291
implications of this proposal is that
482
01:16:30,291 --> 01:16:31,916
peer poly has proposal to eliminate
483
01:16:31,916 --> 01:16:33,833
funding tied to any kind of quote unquote
484
01:16:33,833 --> 01:16:36,125
woke policies has sparked debate within the academic community.
485
01:16:37,125 --> 01:16:40,333
Critics are quit critics argue that such
486
01:16:40,333 --> 01:16:42,875
a move could undermine efforts to address
487
01:16:42,875 --> 01:16:45,208
historical inequities in academia and
488
01:16:45,208 --> 01:16:47,500
diminish the quality of and relevant of
489
01:16:47,500 --> 01:16:49,458
Canadian research at the global stage.
490
01:16:50,208 --> 01:16:51,291
Supporters, however, contend that
491
01:16:51,291 --> 01:16:53,125
research funding should be allocated
492
01:16:53,125 --> 01:16:55,291
based solely on scientific merit without
493
01:16:55,291 --> 01:16:57,291
considerations of identity politics.
494
01:16:57,500 --> 01:16:59,958
Here's the problem with that. We tried to
495
01:16:59,958 --> 01:17:01,083
do that before and it didn't work.
496
01:17:01,125 --> 01:17:03,208
We tried to do that before and we saw
497
01:17:03,208 --> 01:17:05,208
biases. Hence why we put in these D I
498
01:17:05,208 --> 01:17:07,833
policies. That's why we're putting it in.
499
01:17:08,208 --> 01:17:10,250
It wasn't working like that before.
500
01:17:10,750 --> 01:17:11,708
Everybody's like, well, should be on
501
01:17:11,708 --> 01:17:14,041
scientific merit. Yes, it should be.
502
01:17:14,833 --> 01:17:16,333
But when you look at the recipients back
503
01:17:16,333 --> 01:17:18,500
in the day, we're starting to, we started
504
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,458
to see the biases. It was all white
505
01:17:20,458 --> 01:17:22,750
people, white men. We know this is a
506
01:17:22,750 --> 01:17:24,000
problem. We knew this is a problem. We
507
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:25,750
did studies on this. And now you're just
508
01:17:25,750 --> 01:17:27,208
taking it away because people are sick of
509
01:17:27,208 --> 01:17:28,083
hearing about welcome D.
510
01:17:28,125 --> 01:17:31,291
I guess who's sick about it. Yes, guess
511
01:17:31,291 --> 01:17:32,916
the people who are sick about it. It
512
01:17:32,916 --> 01:17:35,666
drives me nuts to see this. And yes, I
513
01:17:35,666 --> 01:17:38,666
agree that some policies go way too far
514
01:17:38,666 --> 01:17:41,208
to the other extreme. We need to find in
515
01:17:41,208 --> 01:17:43,041
the middle, but it's should still be on
516
01:17:43,041 --> 01:17:44,875
scientific merit, but making sure that
517
01:17:44,875 --> 01:17:45,791
everybody's included.
518
01:17:47,250 --> 01:17:49,250
Part of the D.I. Make sure it's diverse.
519
01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:50,541
Make sure it works. Make sure you're
520
01:17:50,541 --> 01:17:52,416
getting different perspectives. Make sure
521
01:17:52,416 --> 01:17:55,416
that teams are built based on diversity,
522
01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:56,666
equity and inclusion.
523
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,000
That's all I have to say today. And so
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01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:02,041
take that in mind if that's something
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01:18:02,041 --> 01:18:04,291
that's important to you when you actually
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01:18:04,291 --> 01:18:06,083
go and vote today for my
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01:18:06,083 --> 01:18:07,083
Canadian audience here.
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01:18:07,125 --> 01:18:09,500
Because I think it's important. I'd love
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01:18:09,500 --> 01:18:11,041
to hear your thoughts. Let me know in the
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01:18:11,041 --> 01:18:12,625
comments below if you're watching this on
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01:18:12,625 --> 01:18:15,791
YouTube or hit me up on Instagram at how
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01:18:15,791 --> 01:18:16,791
to protect the ocean. That's
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01:18:16,791 --> 01:18:18,000
at how to protect the ocean.
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01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,583
Just DM me or if you want to email me, go
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01:18:19,583 --> 01:18:21,375
to speak up for blue dot com. Hit the
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01:18:21,375 --> 01:18:23,541
contact page that goes right to fill out
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01:18:23,541 --> 01:18:25,791
the form that goes right into my inbox.
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01:18:26,708 --> 01:18:29,208
Good luck with the voting. I hope a
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01:18:29,208 --> 01:18:30,666
certain party wins. I'm not going to tell
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01:18:30,666 --> 01:18:31,083
you who you can kind of tell.
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01:18:31,208 --> 01:18:34,000
But regardless, you know, go vote
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01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,666
exercise your vote to win and let's just
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01:18:36,666 --> 01:18:38,333
keep making sure that science is funded
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01:18:38,333 --> 01:18:40,541
for everybody, not just for one
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01:18:40,541 --> 01:18:42,666
particular person or identity.
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01:18:43,333 --> 01:18:44,333
Thank you so much for joining me on
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01:18:44,333 --> 01:18:45,791
today's episode of the how to protect the
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01:18:45,791 --> 01:18:47,333
ocean podcast. I'm your host, Angelou and
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01:18:47,333 --> 01:18:48,500
have a great day. We'll talk to you next
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01:18:48,500 --> 01:18:50,125
time and happy conservation.
