From Academia to Entrepreneurship: Stephanie Manka's Journey in Wildlife Conservation

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Welcome back to the show, everybody. On today's episode, we're going to be talking with

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Stephanie Manka. She is a fellow podcaster. She has

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a podcast called The Fancy Scientist, and she's here to talk about

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her career and how you can get a better career, not only

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in ocean conservation, but maybe even in wildlife conservation. We're

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going to talk to Stephanie on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm

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your host Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean,

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how you can speak up for the ocean and what you can do to live for a better ocean by

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taking action. And on today's episode, we've got a great one for you folks.

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We've got Stephanie Manka. who is a fellow podcaster from

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the Fancy Scientist Podcast. And she

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is just bringing the heat with career advice, how she built

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her career, how she went from academia down to,

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not down, over to her own company,

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and how she is helping people get careers in

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wildlife conservation, that's including ocean conservation. So

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it's a lot of what you can do to better your

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resume, what you can do to build up your mindset and

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get in the right mode to build your wildlife conservation

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career, and even what to do within wildlife conservation. She

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goes into all of that in this episode. She also talks about her time

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on TV. She does a couple of, well, a couple.

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different shows around with the History Channel really reacting

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to videos that may have a questionable kind

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of thing about the science and and conservation and

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wildlife. So it's a lot of fun-filled packed

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information here with Stephanie Manka from the Fancy Scientist

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podcast and you can go to her website. I'll put the website

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in the show notes as well as her podcast so you can check it out.

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But here's the interview with Stephanie. Enjoy and I will talk

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to you after. Hey Stephanie, welcome to the How

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Wonderful, this has been a long time coming apparently, because I think we

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realized that neither of us have been on each other's podcast and

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we're like, why hasn't that been? We've had the podcast for quite

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a long time, each of us, probably some of the longest running podcasts,

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I think in biology, I would say, but

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this is gonna be fun. We're gonna be talking about your career and how you

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ended up where you ended up as a science communicator, having

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your own podcast, but also having your own business, a full-time business.

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which is interesting in itself because not a lot of people can

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do that. And so I'm gonna like start to prod about

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how you can do that so I can learn how to do that as well. But

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also I think for a lot of people who are in the business of

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wildlife biology or ocean biology or marine biology or

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what have you, some people need to do that on their own and because

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it's hard to fit in. to some of the places and move

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and everything like that, depending on what we have going on in our life. So I'm looking

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forward to getting into all that. But Stephanie, if you could just

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so introduce yourself to the audience, if they don't know you, and

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Sure. I am Stephanie Manka. I

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used to be Shuttler. So if you hear about Stephanie Shuttler, that's me too.

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That was my married name. And I am

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a wildlife biologist, science communicator, career

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mentor. Like you said, I have my own business now,

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but I started out in this career as a traditional wildlife

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unreal and that is quite a tale

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I assume like going from research to you

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know where you are now and having your own business and going to science communication. I guess

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the first question to start off really is did you ever expect

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No, not at all when okay, so my

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my father is actually a business owner and as a

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child I would watch him come to home

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from work and He always carried the business with

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him now He was an excellent father like we spent lots of time together and

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everything but you know There were definitely days where he was late

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to dinner because he had to stay with a diamond customer he's he's

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a jeweler and Okay. And even on the weekends, you know, we'd like,

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he'd be talking about business and he just always like carried this on him. So

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I remember thinking like, I don't want a job like that. I want to

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separate work. So you can already see where this is going. I

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want to separate work. Yeah. Life. But,

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um, okay. I'll try to keep this a little bit shorter, but I, um,

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okay. I'll go ahead. Okay. I'll tell you guys everything. I

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basically didn't know what I wanted to do. For really

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college, I was still confused. And my brother

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went to NYU for acting school. And I don't

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know, I just thought that was cool. I was like, oh, I'll be an actor. That sounds like a

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fun job. But I was also really scared of it. It's

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really risky. You hear about people never making it. People

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have to wait tables and they do their plays at

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night and everything. So I also at the same time

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decided to major in biology and

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that would be my backup career. I could be a medical doctor. I

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did always like biology, especially the ecology stuff,

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but I never really knew there was a career that you could have with ecology

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or wildlife. I knew about Jane Goodall, but I was

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like, I'm not going to move to Tanzania in the middle of

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the forest and just live amongst chimpanzees. Even

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if I wanted to, I didn't know how you would do that. So

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I studied biology as a backup career to be a doctor because

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that seemed like a safe career. I could make lots of money,

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you know, there's always doctors. And so that was my plan, but

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I still wanted to be an actress. And, um, then

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also I realized my brother had a big influence on me. Um, he

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also recommended I study abroad just like kind of nonchalantly. He's

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like, Oh yeah, that'd be a cool experience for you. And I

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didn't go away to college. So I felt like I was missing

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out on getting an experience. I lived with my parents and

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I commuted. So I, I

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thought that sounded really great. I was like, okay, I'll do that. And

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I went to the study abroad office and, um,

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at that time there were brochures because we had the internet, but

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it wasn't like how it is today. And they looked at all these different

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brochures. I gathered the ones for theater and those were all in

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Europe. And then I found, I think I found two that were related

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to nature. One, one was in Africa and one

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I think was in the, in like, I think it was Turks and Caicos, but

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I don't remember, but it was, it was ocean related. Yep. And

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I remember spreading all the brochures on my bed and looking at them.

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And the theater ones, I don't know, it just didn't seem as interesting, like

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learning about like ancient Greek plays and stuff, like didn't excite

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me as much. And, um, I

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was a traveler growing up, even though my family didn't travel. I

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had this, I got this student exchange or, and it

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wasn't exchange, but the student ambassador program to Australia. And

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I did that. So I went to Australia when I was like by

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myself, technically, I mean, I went as a part of a group, but I didn't go with my

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family. So I did that, and the

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one for Kenya was especially calling my name because I

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just felt like, when am I ever going to have a chance to go to Africa again?

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That seems really scary. Nobody in my family wanted to go

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to Africa. It's not like, I don't know, I couldn't imagine myself going

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there. So I was like, I'm just going to do that. And it was a

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study for wildlife management program. So

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it took me going all the way to Africa to realize like, oh,

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I can have a job in wildlife biology. I didn't realize

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that. So I just did the summer program. It was short a

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month, but it introduced me into this world. And

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then when I came back, I went

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to a local state school. So it wasn't the best for wildlife, but

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I connected with the science professors and ecology professors

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there and I knew you had to go to graduate school and I now

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had the root of like, okay, how do I become a wildlife

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biologist? So then

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I was on my way, and I did a couple of internships. And

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then I went to graduate school. I got my PhD. I

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did some postdoc work. I had two postdocs. One

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was really short after I did my PhD at the same university

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that I graduated. And then, to be honest, I

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really didn't want to move again. I had moved a bunch. And

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I got married. I'm a big animal lover. So

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I accidentally rescued like six animals. Accidentally.

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Yeah. Yeah. Two dogs. Yeah, two dogs and four

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cats. The last one really was an accident. I

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really didn't want her, but she was semi-feral and

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there was no shelter room, so they would have put her down. My

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lab, my undergrads that were working for

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It's tough not to keep to like especially once you become an

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animal lover and you have multiple pets Then it's like I

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can take this one in like I know and I can figure it out, you know Especially

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when you have a house you have no restrictions I

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have to stay away from some of those Facebook Accounts. Oh,

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I know shelters because I'm like, I'll take all of them. Yes, like you need help

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I know it's pets. I My boyfriend now didn't grow up with any

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pets and he has one dog. We live separately. He has one

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dog. I have two dogs and two cats. And I'm

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slowly trying to convince him that like, this is normal to have like

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multiple animals, but he's so against it. But

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I show them those Facebook posts. I'm like, see, this is how you get them. You

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That's exactly it. And once you have a wildlife degree, then it

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makes it easier. I know how to handle this. So let

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me ask you this. So with the PhD, with the postdocs, was

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it more of a focus working directly with animals? Or was it

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more of a conservation-focused, almost policy-driven,

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policy-focused, or protected

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So I did my PhD on forest elephants

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in animal behavior and using non-invasive genetics. So

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my focus was always like research focused, but

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I wanted a conservation application. But

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to be honest, I still didn't know what I wanted to do, and that

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was what I call my big mistake, is that I

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didn't have a clear end goal. I was like, I want to work in conservation, maybe

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for the government or nonprofit. So I had these animals.

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I had a house. And I didn't want to move. I wanted to move

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once and for all. And that was it. So I was applying to

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permanent jobs. And I was really confident in

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my job applications and stuff. But I wasn't getting any interviews

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except for I got one interview

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for a permanent job. And then I didn't want to apply for postdocs

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because those are temporary positions. But I did let myself

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when it was like really perfect, when there's a postdoc I really liked, and

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or it wasn't an area I wanted to live forever, I could see myself living.

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So the temporary kind of, yeah, the temporary, like the temporariness

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of the job kind of helped if you want to live somewhere and then I'm not gonna

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No, that I could, I could, Yeah, so I

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wanted a job where it wasn't like a big enough city that I

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could find another job. I would take it through postdoc, but

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then find a permanent job afterward. But I didn't want to go to

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South Dakota, where the chances for a job that

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I was interested in wouldn't come up. Okay. So,

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um, I knew academic jobs are really competitive, like

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being a professor, but I had no idea how competitive wildlife

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jobs were. So this was totally shocking to me that like, I was not getting

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jobs. And I know that sounds funny, but, but,

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but it was, I was like, I have the experience. I have a PhD, like,

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how am I not qualified? But I

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just slowly realized that just the market is so saturated out

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there. So I did get a postdoc. I got a long postdoc in

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Raleigh, North Carolina. It was five years. So Raleigh,

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Durham, and Chapel Hill are considered the research triangle. So

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I was like, OK, over five years, I will find a permanent job in

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the research triangle. Well, guess what? In five years,

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I didn't. And it

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was kind of a couple of things that, well,

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mostly I was surprised by how few jobs I was qualified for, because

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what I learned from my first experience is that I I

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got interviews for jobs where my experience really

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lined up with the job. So I thought getting your PhD would

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be kind of a blanket where you could, you know, I could easily work

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for the Nature Conservancy, but I had worked in Gabon on

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forest elephants. if I was applying for

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a job in North Carolina working on mammals, like

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there, there's not a lot of crossover. So, so I

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didn't like, again, I didn't realize how competitive were. So I think maybe a decade or

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so ago I would have been fine, but now they're going to hire the

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person who has been working in North Carolina with that mammal experience over

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somebody with my experience. So just

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every interview that I had, I would get like so close, but they would be like,

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Oh, there's just somebody with, this much more experience. In one case, it

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was somebody with 10 years of experience. So it's like, oh my gosh, like,

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and people were even asking, like, why is this person applying for this job?

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Like, they're clearly overqualified. But again, the market's just

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so oversaturated. So, so

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I love my job in Raleigh. I loved I worked at the North Carolina Museum of

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Natural Sciences. I love that. And at the same

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time, they really encouraged science communications. And I really

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loved science communication. So I started blogging

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with a friend, and then I eventually developed my own blog. And

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a couple of things happened at the same time. I

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realized that I loved science communication. I

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loved writing. I loved public speaking. Um,

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and, um, I was also blogging about the troubles on the

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job market and I knew I wasn't the only one. So I started

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to give advice about this. Um, and,

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um, just slowly, honestly, I transitioned into doing

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more blogging and stuff. And then I was listening to.

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podcasts where people, I eventually found podcasts where people were

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making money off of doing this. And so I was like, okay, I like, like

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eventually I started, stopped applying for jobs and, and I, and

242
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I decided to do this full time. Um, so

243
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I do a combination of science communication and career mentoring

244
00:15:32,983 --> 00:15:36,505
and, um, yeah, some other stuff like writing books and

245
00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:44,202
It seems like a lot to take on like a lot of different streams, right?

246
00:15:44,242 --> 00:15:47,544
I guess that's what you have your own business. You're able to do that. Um,

247
00:15:48,104 --> 00:15:51,806
now like, do you miss the research aspect or finding that

248
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job? Like, do you ever go back and look and just be like, Oh

249
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man, I kind of wish I, I went into this route

250
00:15:58,530 --> 00:16:01,832
instead of another route. Or did you feel like you exhausted everything

251
00:16:03,582 --> 00:16:07,285
That's a good question. Yes and no. I

252
00:16:07,325 --> 00:16:11,848
would say mostly I don't miss it because

253
00:16:12,148 --> 00:16:15,350
another thing that was going on was I felt like my

254
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research was very academic and I loved it, but I really

255
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wanted a conservation application. I loved animals growing

256
00:16:22,355 --> 00:16:26,578
up. I wanted to save the world. And when

257
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I was doing my research, I thought it was cool, but

258
00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:33,061
it was just going into academic journals and like, yeah, maybe somebody could

259
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use it for a conservation application. But it was

260
00:16:36,503 --> 00:16:39,885
just like an if, you know, like, like, you know, maybe if somebody

261
00:16:39,925 --> 00:16:43,247
does this, whereas if I was

262
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working on a project that had a direct conservation application, I

263
00:16:46,929 --> 00:16:50,171
think I would have enjoyed it more. And

264
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also, I could have applied for jobs all over the country and

265
00:16:53,374 --> 00:16:58,483
stuff, but like I said, I really wanted to stay in Raleigh. I was really happy in Raleigh. I

266
00:16:58,543 --> 00:17:02,284
do miss when I talk about

267
00:17:02,484 --> 00:17:05,865
science communication, I do miss the first-hand experience being

268
00:17:05,905 --> 00:17:09,306
like, we discovered this or our group found this

269
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out. I miss that part, but I don't miss necessarily writing

270
00:17:13,707 --> 00:17:17,188
the papers. I miss being part of

271
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a larger lab where we can share ideas and talk about

272
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what's new in science and stuff like that. But

273
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in terms of the research, um, itself, I

274
00:17:29,134 --> 00:17:32,416
don't miss a ton and I do miss like going, getting those

275
00:17:32,496 --> 00:17:35,619
neat experiences as well, I guess. Yeah. So those are the things that I

276
00:17:35,699 --> 00:17:39,282
miss. Um, but at the, at the same time, also

277
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I was working with kids, my job required to integrate

278
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research into classrooms, like real research. So we would have kids set

279
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up camera traps and we would use the images for research. And

280
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I was doing a lot of social science research too, and I realized that

281
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for people to care about the environment and conservation, it's really important

282
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for them to have a connection with nature. So that was also

283
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,104
like where things started to pivot for me that like, oh, science communication

284
00:18:07,224 --> 00:18:10,587
is really important because I can Um,

285
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you know, create that connection for, for kids. Like,

286
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like, like, I mean, I mean, think about like, you know, Steve Irwin, he created that

287
00:18:17,555 --> 00:18:20,699
connection for so many people. And so, so

288
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I realized like, yeah, for sure. Like, like I, even though I never really

289
00:18:24,122 --> 00:18:29,486
watched Steve Irwin. But

290
00:18:29,546 --> 00:18:33,328
yeah, so I realized like, oh, I can have a bigger impact

291
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by getting people to care and then they carry that

292
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:40,190
throughout their lifetime. Whereas when I was working on forest

293
00:18:40,250 --> 00:18:43,732
elephants, yes, I was working on an endangered species, but

294
00:18:44,392 --> 00:18:47,833
The problem was not like we weren't studying them enough. The problem was

295
00:18:47,853 --> 00:18:51,294
people were poaching them. So like how do you get the people to stop poaching

296
00:18:51,334 --> 00:18:54,895
them, which ultimately boils down to people

297
00:18:55,375 --> 00:18:59,217
caring enough about wildlife, whether it's the politicians, the government, the

298
00:18:59,257 --> 00:19:02,357
people buying it, or the

299
00:19:02,398 --> 00:19:05,839
gap in knowledge between what people are buying versus

300
00:19:05,859 --> 00:19:08,919
what they think they're buying, all of that sort of stuff. It's a

301
00:19:10,933 --> 00:19:14,076
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So like when you

302
00:19:14,216 --> 00:19:18,019
when you first started your business, like

303
00:19:18,099 --> 00:19:21,562
that's not an easy thing to start. Did you have like

304
00:19:21,602 --> 00:19:24,904
you started talking about the career thing that

305
00:19:25,065 --> 00:19:28,487
was that your first sort of venture into building

306
00:19:28,507 --> 00:19:32,571
the business was okay, I'm going to offer career advice to people. Was

307
00:19:33,251 --> 00:19:37,832
Um, I

308
00:19:38,652 --> 00:19:42,113
think so. I officially opened an LLC in,

309
00:19:42,834 --> 00:19:46,155
I believe it was April of 2020. This happened right

310
00:19:46,175 --> 00:19:49,615
around the pandemic too. I decided before the pandemic and

311
00:19:49,635 --> 00:19:53,036
it was great timing because everything

312
00:19:53,076 --> 00:19:56,458
shut down. Um, so I opened

313
00:19:56,478 --> 00:19:59,980
it and then, um, at the same time,

314
00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:03,502
yeah. So like I knew they were, there's several ways to make money through, through

315
00:20:03,522 --> 00:20:06,804
blogging. One is ads. So at that time I

316
00:20:08,305 --> 00:20:11,647
watched tiger King like everybody else. And I wrote

317
00:20:11,667 --> 00:20:14,968
blog posts about it and those did really well. Yeah. And

318
00:20:15,088 --> 00:20:19,069
I was able to sign up with, um, an advertising

319
00:20:19,949 --> 00:20:23,410
company that pays better than, um, like Google ads. So,

320
00:20:25,591 --> 00:20:29,032
It's still not a ton of money, but, but that, so I do have ads

321
00:20:31,052 --> 00:20:34,153
Well, and I, I wasn't a lucky situation where I didn't have to

322
00:20:34,193 --> 00:20:37,414
worry about money that my, my ex did have

323
00:20:37,454 --> 00:20:40,915
a lucrative job. Um, so I did, I didn't have

324
00:20:40,935 --> 00:20:44,056
to, make money in the

325
00:20:44,096 --> 00:20:47,597
first place, but I did make money with ads. And then yes, I opened

326
00:20:47,757 --> 00:20:52,199
up group programs to add

327
00:20:52,439 --> 00:20:56,521
some more income. And then the other way for

328
00:20:56,541 --> 00:20:59,863
people to make money is affiliate links

329
00:20:59,943 --> 00:21:03,344
too. So I did experiment with some of that, but I

330
00:21:04,145 --> 00:21:07,866
never made a ton of money off of that, but I also never really worked

331
00:21:07,986 --> 00:21:11,528
at that. It was really, Oh, and I was writing my book, too.

332
00:21:11,628 --> 00:21:15,070
So I do get income from my book. But it's

333
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:18,412
mostly my book and the group programs that do

334
00:21:18,472 --> 00:21:22,235
the most. Yeah, those are the two most lucrative.

335
00:21:22,255 --> 00:21:26,037
And once I started taking students, and then especially

336
00:21:26,057 --> 00:21:29,319
when I started seeing the success of my students, that's really

337
00:21:29,399 --> 00:21:32,661
what helped out. Because at first, it was kind of like, oh,

338
00:21:32,721 --> 00:21:36,163
here's, like, based on my experience, if I wanted this,

339
00:21:36,223 --> 00:21:39,868
like, here's what I would have done differently. Um,

340
00:21:40,389 --> 00:21:43,632
but like, I wasn't a hundred percent sure it was where it would work. I'm like, okay, it

341
00:21:43,732 --> 00:21:46,935
should work. But then once I started working with my students and stuff, cause

342
00:21:47,055 --> 00:21:50,218
because my problem wasn't my, my job applications, I did, I

343
00:21:50,278 --> 00:21:54,401
wrote really good job applications. It was, I didn't have the experience. So

344
00:21:54,862 --> 00:21:58,104
really applying that on my students and then seeing it work for them.

345
00:21:58,145 --> 00:22:01,461
It's like, wow, this really works and this is awesome. And then. And

346
00:22:01,481 --> 00:22:05,024
then it grew from there. But then I did get a divorce, so

347
00:22:05,084 --> 00:22:08,707
I did have to provide income for myself. And

348
00:22:12,821 --> 00:22:16,142
Yeah, for sure. Like I did the, you know, I did the same thing. I started

349
00:22:16,162 --> 00:22:19,543
to make money off of, off of like, you know, the podcasting and

350
00:22:19,563 --> 00:22:22,664
I started doing, I ventured into careers as well. Um,

351
00:22:22,804 --> 00:22:26,125
and I had a job at the time. So like, you know, coming, I have

352
00:22:26,165 --> 00:22:29,327
a wife who, so, you know, the dual income was nice. And so

353
00:22:29,367 --> 00:22:32,768
I didn't have to worry about too much money, but when I didn't have a job

354
00:22:32,908 --> 00:22:36,309
and you know, then all of a sudden like this money is going towards paying bills.

355
00:22:37,470 --> 00:22:40,673
It's a lot of pressure on yourself, I found for

356
00:22:40,713 --> 00:22:43,836
me anyway, to put on yourself once you're like, okay, now I've got to make a

357
00:22:43,896 --> 00:22:46,959
go of this. Before, if I got a student or I didn't get a

358
00:22:47,019 --> 00:22:50,742
student, then it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great. But

359
00:22:50,802 --> 00:22:53,945
now I need every student that I can. Did you find that

360
00:22:57,365 --> 00:23:00,768
Yeah, that can definitely happen to

361
00:23:00,828 --> 00:23:04,472
you and there's kind of like two schools of thought and I listen to a

362
00:23:04,512 --> 00:23:07,855
lot of, not a lot of career mentors, but I have a couple of chosen

363
00:23:07,875 --> 00:23:12,092
that I listen to. I listen to a lot of their advice and And

364
00:23:12,272 --> 00:23:15,816
yeah, different people use different approaches. There's like, you know, Tony Robbins

365
00:23:15,836 --> 00:23:19,240
will say kind of like burn your bridges, like burn, burn your boats.

366
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,184
It's based off of that anecdote where it's like a

367
00:23:23,224 --> 00:23:26,348
war. I can't remember the story, but basically it's a war general. They

368
00:23:26,368 --> 00:23:29,611
went to an island and they like burned the boats to like, cause

369
00:23:29,631 --> 00:23:32,875
they were planning to win or something like this. There's no way out. There's no way

370
00:23:32,895 --> 00:23:36,857
back. Yeah. So you quit your job, or you make

371
00:23:36,877 --> 00:23:40,398
things happen for you. Or the

372
00:23:40,458 --> 00:23:44,759
other one is you keep your day job. And the

373
00:23:44,779 --> 00:23:48,640
nice thing about that is that you don't

374
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,921
have that financial pressure then. Then it becomes more of a joy, and

375
00:23:51,941 --> 00:23:56,022
you don't have to worry about selling it. So yeah, those are the two main

376
00:23:56,242 --> 00:23:59,803
schools of thought. But yeah, sometimes you can get

377
00:23:59,843 --> 00:24:03,024
caught up in that. But

378
00:24:03,064 --> 00:24:06,325
it's really important, I think, to separate yourself from that

379
00:24:06,406 --> 00:24:09,847
as well and decide what works best for you, too. For some people,

380
00:24:10,107 --> 00:24:13,929
one method works better than the other to jump all in, whereas

381
00:24:13,949 --> 00:24:17,430
the other, like, for them to... And, you know, there's part-time

382
00:24:17,470 --> 00:24:20,732
work, too, that people can get. And, you

383
00:24:20,772 --> 00:24:24,133
know, I tell my students, like... I mean,

384
00:24:24,153 --> 00:24:27,854
that's the one great thing about being connected to the entrepreneur community

385
00:24:28,015 --> 00:24:31,306
is that It attracts a

386
00:24:31,346 --> 00:24:35,729
certain type of people and I would say that they're

387
00:24:35,789 --> 00:24:39,471
either taught or just are more likely to do this, but

388
00:24:39,491 --> 00:24:42,812
to make sacrifices and just willing to do what

389
00:24:42,852 --> 00:24:46,935
it takes. I was part of this one group coaching

390
00:24:46,995 --> 00:24:50,557
program. It was an expensive program and somebody sold

391
00:24:50,597 --> 00:24:54,099
their car to be a part of it. Um, and

392
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,661
yeah, yeah. Cause they, they really wanted this, this

393
00:24:57,741 --> 00:25:01,363
business for themselves. And, um, so they were just like willing

394
00:25:01,443 --> 00:25:04,805
to do what it took. And, um, and, and

395
00:25:04,885 --> 00:25:08,668
actually the, the, the mentor, she was incredible too.

396
00:25:08,788 --> 00:25:11,930
She came from Venezuela. She was a single mom. She was

397
00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:15,072
going through a divorce. She had tons of legal bills and

398
00:25:15,112 --> 00:25:18,654
stuff. So, um, So

399
00:25:18,674 --> 00:25:22,837
that's what I tell my students, too. I charge

400
00:25:22,877 --> 00:25:27,060
for my programs. It's an investment for them and themselves so

401
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:31,443
that I can give them unbiased advice. And my

402
00:25:31,563 --> 00:25:35,306
career now is to serve them. But I

403
00:25:35,646 --> 00:25:39,068
think a lot of times, we have this stigma in our head, like,

404
00:25:39,188 --> 00:25:43,191
oh, if we do Uber or something like that, that means we're you

405
00:25:43,211 --> 00:25:46,314
know, we haven't made it. And if you're, especially if you're a college graduate, you see your

406
00:25:46,354 --> 00:25:49,897
friends move on, like doing, you know, quote unquote, real jobs. And

407
00:25:50,258 --> 00:25:53,721
you are in, even if you are working wildlife jobs, for me, my

408
00:25:53,761 --> 00:25:57,004
temp jobs never lined up. So I would go home, I would

409
00:25:57,064 --> 00:26:00,227
work for six months and go home for six months and like wait for the

410
00:26:00,287 --> 00:26:03,530
next job. And I would live with my parents and,

411
00:26:03,610 --> 00:26:07,814
you know, like work at Starbucks and stuff. And my other friends would, would

412
00:26:07,874 --> 00:26:11,297
have jobs, you know? And so, but

413
00:26:11,337 --> 00:26:14,800
it's just, we just live in a different world. It's just a different system and

414
00:26:16,801 --> 00:26:20,164
Well, and it's challenging. It definitely is challenging. The

415
00:26:20,244 --> 00:26:24,047
people I see in ocean conservation, they are moving

416
00:26:24,107 --> 00:26:28,111
from place to place to place and they're happy with that. And that's their lifestyle that

417
00:26:28,151 --> 00:26:31,593
they chose, but they move from place to place and it'll be from not

418
00:26:31,633 --> 00:26:35,257
only cities, but it'll be in like, you know, Towns

419
00:26:35,297 --> 00:26:38,720
that are that are far from cities, you know like country areas that

420
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,403
there's not a lot around and they'll move to another place because that job was

421
00:26:42,443 --> 00:26:45,626
only For four to six months and then they'll go to another place and they'll go

422
00:26:45,646 --> 00:26:48,849
to another place And it's it's a hard life to lead where you can't put

423
00:26:48,929 --> 00:26:52,232
roots down You can't you know buy a home, you know You're you're going

424
00:26:52,272 --> 00:26:55,775
from apartment to apartment or you're renting a home or Airbnb or

425
00:26:55,815 --> 00:26:59,138
whatever that that might be and it's it's a

426
00:26:59,238 --> 00:27:03,342
very challenging place to be in life, unless

427
00:27:03,523 --> 00:27:06,806
that's what you choose to do. But if you wanted to start

428
00:27:06,846 --> 00:27:10,469
a family, or if you wanted to have any kind of routine, it's very difficult

429
00:27:10,509 --> 00:27:14,433
to continue to move like that. So it's very challenging. And

430
00:27:14,453 --> 00:27:18,057
there are jobs that are full-time, permanent, like a lot of government jobs

431
00:27:18,097 --> 00:27:21,380
and things like that. But a lot of the ones that people go for

432
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,683
and that are available are these six months jobs,

433
00:27:24,703 --> 00:27:27,848
and they're usually based on funding and so like what is

434
00:27:27,868 --> 00:27:31,535
that the biggest challenge you find for some of your students? I

435
00:27:31,555 --> 00:27:35,022
just kind of want to talk a little bit about that if that's okay like with the career stuff

436
00:27:35,082 --> 00:27:38,288
like what are the biggest challenges that you find that that students have?

437
00:27:38,893 --> 00:27:42,617
that they can't get jobs. That's the biggest one. So

438
00:27:43,278 --> 00:27:46,441
I do think, and oceans might be different. In my

439
00:27:46,501 --> 00:27:50,185
field, I do think it's normal for people to take several jobs before

440
00:27:50,225 --> 00:27:53,509
they land their permanent job. I

441
00:27:53,549 --> 00:27:56,732
was actually, for my latest training, I read this

442
00:27:56,772 --> 00:28:00,015
paper about, it's called It Pays to get paid in

443
00:28:00,056 --> 00:28:03,317
wildlife work. It was all about how the more paid jobs you

444
00:28:03,357 --> 00:28:07,820
have, the more likely you're going to end up with a permanent job. It

445
00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:11,722
was like seven to nine jobs predict success.

446
00:28:12,022 --> 00:28:15,224
I think that's a lot though. My students have not had

447
00:28:15,264 --> 00:28:19,527
seven to nine jobs. They've gotten permanent jobs with maybe

448
00:28:19,587 --> 00:28:22,974
like three to five or something

449
00:28:23,014 --> 00:28:26,377
around that range. That makes sense. I think that's pretty normal. And,

450
00:28:26,697 --> 00:28:30,180
um, and even like my one friend in graduate school, she

451
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,782
got her master's and she couldn't get a job afterwards.

452
00:28:33,842 --> 00:28:37,125
She worked at Starbucks for a while. So it's, it's, I

453
00:28:37,165 --> 00:28:40,527
think like the biggest message I want to tell people out there who are struggling is

454
00:28:40,567 --> 00:28:43,810
it's, it's competitive. It is so saturated. It's not

455
00:28:43,850 --> 00:28:48,053
about you. And then talking to employers too, employers

456
00:28:48,093 --> 00:28:51,475
are like, it's so hard to choose people because sometimes it's like, this

457
00:28:51,515 --> 00:28:54,738
person would be great, but so would this person. So if you're

458
00:28:54,778 --> 00:28:58,361
not getting a job, I don't want to

459
00:28:59,983 --> 00:29:03,366
say you have to try harder, but

460
00:29:03,406 --> 00:29:06,768
you have to think about it more strategically. So

461
00:29:07,049 --> 00:29:10,253
it's about building up The, so I say, I

462
00:29:10,293 --> 00:29:13,977
mean, I say it takes clarity, uh, strategy and application. So

463
00:29:14,017 --> 00:29:17,199
it's about first figuring out what you want to do, ultimately want to do,

464
00:29:17,540 --> 00:29:20,923
then building up your experience, especially towards that

465
00:29:21,003 --> 00:29:24,145
thing. So in the beginning, that might be hard because you have

466
00:29:24,185 --> 00:29:27,588
no experience. So you might need to get broader experience, but as you progress, you

467
00:29:27,629 --> 00:29:31,052
want to get more and more closer to that. And then,

468
00:29:31,072 --> 00:29:34,394
um, and then also network network is part of the strategy. Those

469
00:29:34,414 --> 00:29:38,162
are the big ones. And of course your education. And then job application.

470
00:29:38,222 --> 00:29:41,863
I actually think, so most people, most of my students struggle with,

471
00:29:42,203 --> 00:29:45,724
they don't get interviews. They apply for jobs and they don't get interviews.

472
00:29:46,364 --> 00:29:49,645
And what I have found is, is most people don't

473
00:29:49,665 --> 00:29:53,286
write strong job applications. I think that they write just

474
00:29:53,366 --> 00:29:57,206
very basic, regular job applications. And a

475
00:29:57,286 --> 00:30:01,247
lot of the information out there about job applications is

476
00:30:01,347 --> 00:30:04,748
not for wildlife jobs. So people, look

477
00:30:04,788 --> 00:30:07,930
at that stuff for like businesses or, you know, like just

478
00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:11,432
like the general, like LinkedIn stuff where you got to do like bullet points

479
00:30:11,492 --> 00:30:15,834
of like a couple of words. Like, no, that doesn't work for our field. So,

480
00:30:15,854 --> 00:30:19,636
um, for a lot of my students, once they improve their job applications

481
00:30:22,737 --> 00:30:25,959
I find the same thing. I find, I find the biggest thing. I

482
00:30:26,239 --> 00:30:29,921
find that actually the biggest thing, the first step for, for us is like clarity.

483
00:30:30,432 --> 00:30:33,653
Like, yeah, you can't just go and I want to protect the ocean, or I want to

484
00:30:33,693 --> 00:30:37,954
go into conservation, or I want to go into sharks, like you have to have clarity

485
00:30:38,154 --> 00:30:41,535
and then identifying, you know, the job that you want. I'm

486
00:30:41,755 --> 00:30:45,376
very, very much the same way. And in your thought

487
00:30:45,396 --> 00:30:48,877
process is like, figure out what you want to do, and then figure out how to get to that point

488
00:30:48,937 --> 00:30:52,213
and what you need. what kind of experience you need. That'll help you start to

489
00:30:52,253 --> 00:30:55,535
target the jobs that you want. And then the application is

490
00:30:55,575 --> 00:30:58,797
the biggest thing. It's unreal to see some

491
00:30:59,417 --> 00:31:03,900
of the applications. It's not the people's fault. It's not the fault of students or

492
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,302
early career scientists. It's just they haven't been taught or they've been taught from

493
00:31:08,342 --> 00:31:11,924
somebody who's done business resumes before. And like you said, they're

494
00:31:11,985 --> 00:31:15,086
very different. When I did government jobs and I

495
00:31:15,126 --> 00:31:18,408
applied to government jobs, my cover letter If

496
00:31:18,568 --> 00:31:21,770
I look at it, sometimes they were like eight to nine pages long because

497
00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:25,132
you had to answer. Yeah, for the federal government,

498
00:31:25,172 --> 00:31:28,533
for the federal Canadian government, you had to answer all these questions. And

499
00:31:28,573 --> 00:31:31,835
if you actually printed it out, it was like nine pages long, eight

500
00:31:31,855 --> 00:31:35,817
to nine pages long with all that. Because then you had to hit certain

501
00:31:35,837 --> 00:31:38,919
things that they wanted to hear and they wouldn't even look at it

502
00:31:39,159 --> 00:31:42,460
if it didn't. But it's interesting because it

503
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:47,080
took me a while to find the jobs that I wanted. But

504
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:50,403
when I, when somebody actually sat down and I used to get frustrated, I stopped,

505
00:31:50,743 --> 00:31:54,005
I stopped applying to government jobs. I got so frustrated with it. I was like, they

506
00:31:54,025 --> 00:31:57,147
don't even, they never answer me back. So what's the point? And then some, I

507
00:31:57,187 --> 00:32:00,530
was actually working a contract in a government building for

508
00:32:00,570 --> 00:32:03,952
the government that I wanted, like for the department that I wanted to work for, uh, or

509
00:32:04,032 --> 00:32:07,195
one that was like adjacent. And, uh, somebody sat me down. It's like, Oh, if

510
00:32:07,215 --> 00:32:10,397
you want to do this, there's a certain way, like you have to know the specific way.

511
00:32:10,957 --> 00:32:14,240
Why don't they teach us and they do but they teach it in-house. They

512
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,623
don't teach it outside Yeah, so this is where like people

513
00:32:17,663 --> 00:32:20,925
like yourself come in where it's like you have to know where to

514
00:32:20,945 --> 00:32:24,789
apply how to apply and and how to like take the

515
00:32:24,849 --> 00:32:28,171
Skills and experience that you have and put it on paper in

516
00:32:28,211 --> 00:32:31,374
a way that people are like this is I want to see this

517
00:32:31,434 --> 00:32:34,897
kind exactly. Yeah, so I think that's that's that's really important

518
00:32:35,317 --> 00:32:38,700
Yeah, and I think people don't know how to,

519
00:32:39,521 --> 00:32:43,465
for lack of a better word, brag about themselves. They're very

520
00:32:43,545 --> 00:32:47,308
humble. They'll say, oh, educated guests. And it's like, well,

521
00:32:47,328 --> 00:32:50,671
can you provide some more details about that? Or

522
00:32:50,691 --> 00:32:53,974
data analysis? They just don't know

523
00:32:54,074 --> 00:32:59,379
how to speak. Yeah, job applications talk. And

524
00:32:59,399 --> 00:33:02,962
then I also, yeah. And then to go off of that, I don't feel like they know the

525
00:33:03,002 --> 00:33:06,224
value that they have too. It's like, like, I remember working with

526
00:33:06,244 --> 00:33:09,406
this one, um, student, she had like

527
00:33:09,486 --> 00:33:12,668
four bullet points on her list and she lived in Borneo for like

528
00:33:12,708 --> 00:33:15,931
a year and a half studying orangutans. And I was like, there's no way

529
00:33:15,971 --> 00:33:19,493
you did just four things. Like you were in the field,

530
00:33:19,553 --> 00:33:22,695
like living at a field station at the very least, you

531
00:33:22,736 --> 00:33:26,183
know, you were like, like doing like field camp type

532
00:33:26,243 --> 00:33:30,304
stuff, where you're ordering supplies, doing logistics, with

533
00:33:30,344 --> 00:33:34,026
a million mosquitoes around you or something. You know what I mean? There's

534
00:33:34,126 --> 00:33:37,708
more complicated things to this than you're not painting the picture

535
00:33:38,728 --> 00:33:42,210
What is funny, we laugh at that too, but it's so true.

536
00:33:42,670 --> 00:33:45,952
You don't realize how many important things that people look

537
00:33:46,012 --> 00:33:49,634
for. You can do fieldwork. Everybody

538
00:33:49,674 --> 00:33:53,015
can do fieldwork, but how well do you do fieldwork? How well do you prepare for

539
00:33:53,095 --> 00:33:56,276
fieldwork? how well do you make sure

540
00:33:56,316 --> 00:33:59,777
that like the data is intact and like you've got the right field

541
00:33:59,817 --> 00:34:03,218
sheets and if not field sheets it's covered. I'm from a water

542
00:34:03,258 --> 00:34:06,459
background so everything has to be covered or if it's digital it's got to make sure

543
00:34:06,479 --> 00:34:09,620
it doesn't it's waterproof and all that kind of stuff right so it's

544
00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:13,181
there's a lot that goes in and and that it's it's

545
00:34:13,821 --> 00:34:17,143
it's You have to learn how to do it.

546
00:34:17,543 --> 00:34:20,925
A lot of people just don't know. And some people

547
00:34:20,985 --> 00:34:24,387
get a little resistant when they're like, I should know this or my university should

548
00:34:24,407 --> 00:34:28,490
have taught me. Do you ever get students that are looking

549
00:34:28,970 --> 00:34:32,032
for your help but may not want to join a group or

550
00:34:32,072 --> 00:34:35,314
may not want to pay for that kind of service because they

551
00:34:35,354 --> 00:34:38,416
feel like they should do it? And how do

552
00:34:41,778 --> 00:34:45,100
Um, so, I mean, I,

553
00:34:45,140 --> 00:34:48,361
I give away a lot of, of free stuff. I, you know, like I have my

554
00:34:48,401 --> 00:34:51,542
podcast, I have free trains. I just did a, I just did

555
00:34:51,622 --> 00:34:54,704
a free training that used to be a webinar plus a

556
00:34:54,724 --> 00:34:58,185
bonus webinar. And I turned it into three free chains. That's like three,

557
00:34:58,445 --> 00:35:02,147
it probably ends up being like more than three hours long. Um,

558
00:35:02,787 --> 00:35:06,129
so a couple, a

559
00:35:06,169 --> 00:35:11,133
couple of things, um, it's. It's

560
00:35:11,473 --> 00:35:15,276
impossible for some stuff to train

561
00:35:15,296 --> 00:35:20,881
without them enrolling in something. I do

562
00:35:20,921 --> 00:35:25,364
have resume revamp, which they could take. And they could learn

563
00:35:25,404 --> 00:35:28,526
and totally redo their resume by themselves. Or even I

564
00:35:28,566 --> 00:35:32,169
have a job application academy. But actually,

565
00:35:32,189 --> 00:35:36,052
that part does include job application reviews. So

566
00:35:36,072 --> 00:35:39,341
you review them. Yes, yes. So

567
00:35:39,561 --> 00:35:43,042
some students might be able to take themselves to the next level

568
00:35:43,082 --> 00:35:46,524
on their own, and they don't need any review. But I would say most need

569
00:35:46,724 --> 00:35:49,965
the personal review and need how to break down the

570
00:35:50,005 --> 00:35:53,486
job posting. Because it's not just about you. It's really

571
00:35:53,526 --> 00:35:57,268
about dissecting the job posting. And I've become very good at that, like

572
00:35:57,308 --> 00:36:01,289
interpreting, oh, this is what they want. This is what they think is most important, and

573
00:36:01,310 --> 00:36:05,872
then matching your stuff to that stuff. But

574
00:36:05,912 --> 00:36:09,876
I think the biggest thing is that there's a

575
00:36:09,976 --> 00:36:13,039
shift that happens when you invest in yourself. You take it

576
00:36:13,099 --> 00:36:16,883
much more seriously. So it actually, honestly, is

577
00:36:16,923 --> 00:36:20,247
a benefit to them because they value it

578
00:36:20,367 --> 00:36:23,665
so much more. And like going back

579
00:36:23,705 --> 00:36:27,446
to that coaching program I was a part of, it was expensive. And

580
00:36:27,466 --> 00:36:30,787
I made sure I showed up every single week

581
00:36:30,927 --> 00:36:34,208
because I did not want to waste my money. Um, so

582
00:36:34,488 --> 00:36:38,009
I was there and, and she changed the program around too. So,

583
00:36:38,629 --> 00:36:41,770
um, so towards the end, it was just me and one other person who were in

584
00:36:41,790 --> 00:36:44,892
the program. And I would be at the meetings every single week and she'd be like,

585
00:36:44,952 --> 00:36:48,294
OK, what do you like just to troubleshoot problems? She's like, what are your problems

586
00:36:48,334 --> 00:36:51,696
this week? And I'm like, I don't really have any problems. I'm just here to

587
00:36:51,716 --> 00:36:55,779
like absorb more information and get inspired. And

588
00:36:55,819 --> 00:36:59,221
then like I would talk to her and I realized I did have more problems that

589
00:36:59,241 --> 00:37:04,084
we could talk about. So so you show up differently. And

590
00:37:04,425 --> 00:37:08,567
yeah, you take it more seriously. You put in the work. I've

591
00:37:08,587 --> 00:37:11,950
done scholarships for my program. And some people do take

592
00:37:12,010 --> 00:37:15,492
it really seriously. Like I've had Chitra. I gave

593
00:37:15,512 --> 00:37:19,275
her a scholarship in Nepal. And

594
00:37:19,355 --> 00:37:23,798
she is actually now in Illinois. It's amazing. Her

595
00:37:23,838 --> 00:37:27,481
dream was to get a master's in the United States.

596
00:37:29,542 --> 00:37:32,945
And she did it. She took my program. We

597
00:37:32,965 --> 00:37:36,448
worked on her cover letters and everything. But she also put

598
00:37:36,468 --> 00:37:39,750
in the work ahead of time, too. I do

599
00:37:39,790 --> 00:37:43,613
have people fill out applications. But she

600
00:37:43,633 --> 00:37:46,756
started in Nepal attending a free – she

601
00:37:46,796 --> 00:37:50,438
loved turtles. She attended a free, I think, turtle webinar

602
00:37:50,739 --> 00:37:54,409
or her conservation talk. And

603
00:37:54,489 --> 00:37:57,611
afterwards she contacted the scientist and she's like, how can I help? Like I want

604
00:37:57,631 --> 00:38:01,133
to get involved. So she had that drive. Like she wasn't letting anything

605
00:38:01,153 --> 00:38:04,535
about her situation hold her back. Um,

606
00:38:04,695 --> 00:38:07,917
and yeah, she didn't have the money being, being, um, with

607
00:38:07,957 --> 00:38:11,619
her circumstances, but she filled out a good job or

608
00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:14,821
a good application for the scholarship and she showed up

609
00:38:14,841 --> 00:38:18,404
to the calls and she took my advice. Whereas

610
00:38:18,444 --> 00:38:21,547
other people, before I

611
00:38:21,607 --> 00:38:24,810
did the application and stuff, I would gift it to people and

612
00:38:24,850 --> 00:38:27,933
do scholarships. And some people would never show up at all. And I

613
00:38:27,953 --> 00:38:31,296
had to be like, hey, what's going on? But they would tell me

614
00:38:31,336 --> 00:38:35,160
they really wanted it and stuff. So there

615
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:39,624
is a certain click or a change that happens when

616
00:38:41,798 --> 00:38:45,259
Yeah, I can imagine. I think that would, yeah, I

617
00:38:45,319 --> 00:38:49,000
agree. I've done a couple of coaching programs before and

618
00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:52,261
every time, like if I did a free one, I wouldn't be as invested. If

619
00:38:52,361 --> 00:38:55,681
I had to pay, you're like, I just put down a boatload of money.

620
00:38:56,842 --> 00:39:00,483
I need to actually make sure I get the most out of this as possible so

621
00:39:00,523 --> 00:39:03,723
that I can get back. In fact, sometimes I look at it and I'm like, how much

622
00:39:03,803 --> 00:39:07,005
money, how much more money can I make if I'm putting you

623
00:39:07,025 --> 00:39:10,167
know, sometimes it's a hundred dollars, sometimes it's $500, sometimes it's

624
00:39:10,207 --> 00:39:13,308
a thousand dollars. And you're like, how much money am I going to make off of

625
00:39:13,368 --> 00:39:16,730
this? Like that's, that's how I look at it and say, okay,

626
00:39:19,331 --> 00:39:23,093
Yeah. Yeah. I just joined a program for,

627
00:39:23,473 --> 00:39:26,675
for fitness or for weight loss. And I, I, since I've

628
00:39:26,695 --> 00:39:31,970
been moved to the Chicago area, I slowly gained like 12 pounds. And

629
00:39:33,552 --> 00:39:36,916
That's what it is. That's the problem. I

630
00:39:39,210 --> 00:39:45,514
I blame my boyfriend. I'm like, I'm too happy being with you. So

631
00:39:45,594 --> 00:39:49,136
I gained this weight and I've been trying, like really

632
00:39:49,196 --> 00:39:52,417
consciously trying to lose it. Like, you know, and I know how to lose weight.

633
00:39:52,437 --> 00:39:56,200
I've done it before. I've, what's always worked for me is personal trainers.

634
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,682
So, you know, but like I've calorie counted by myself and all

635
00:39:59,722 --> 00:40:03,103
this stuff, but when I, you know, it hasn't been working. So

636
00:40:03,123 --> 00:40:06,385
I'm like, okay, I'm fed up of figuring this out myself. So I joined

637
00:40:06,425 --> 00:40:09,841
a program. And then it's also nice because it's

638
00:40:10,501 --> 00:40:13,742
kind of like the responsibility is taken off of you. I still

639
00:40:13,782 --> 00:40:16,883
put in the work, but it's like, OK, you tell me

640
00:40:16,923 --> 00:40:21,325
what to do. And if it doesn't work, it's your fault. So

641
00:40:21,385 --> 00:40:25,026
they tell me what to do. But because I invested money

642
00:40:25,406 --> 00:40:29,207
and then also I have someone to report to, Like,

643
00:40:29,287 --> 00:40:32,789
you know, like if accountability, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, so

644
00:40:32,869 --> 00:40:36,852
I found out I was, yeah, I was, I was counting calories,

645
00:40:36,952 --> 00:40:44,496
but I was using heaping scoops. Oh

646
00:40:44,536 --> 00:40:47,919
my gosh. Well, now I have to weigh stuff and weigh stuff.

647
00:40:47,979 --> 00:40:51,321
It's like, you can't cheat with that. But, um, but

648
00:40:51,361 --> 00:40:54,663
yeah, it works. Like I've, I've, I've lost the

649
00:40:54,723 --> 00:40:57,905
12 pounds. I can't, like, I can't believe it. It's been amazing. And

650
00:40:57,925 --> 00:41:01,307
so, I remember

651
00:41:01,487 --> 00:41:05,670
the first few days, I'm like, crap, I can't lie to myself because

652
00:41:06,150 --> 00:41:09,493
they're going to be like, what's going on, Stephanie? How come you're not losing

653
00:41:09,533 --> 00:41:13,176
weight? I can't be like, oh, your program's not working

654
00:41:13,276 --> 00:41:17,238
because I'm the one who's not doing it. So

655
00:41:17,298 --> 00:41:21,460
yeah, it's that accountability. And then

656
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,661
also, yeah, taking the weight off of your shoulders. So you don't have to do it

657
00:41:24,721 --> 00:41:27,842
alone anymore. In my group mentoring program, you

658
00:41:27,882 --> 00:41:31,703
get to talk to me. Right now, it's small enough that I'm

659
00:41:31,743 --> 00:41:35,065
able to answer every question. So even though it's

660
00:41:35,325 --> 00:41:38,766
group mentoring, we do training. So there's recordings that people watch.

661
00:41:38,826 --> 00:41:42,287
And then we have group mentoring for whatever questions people have or if

662
00:41:42,307 --> 00:41:45,650
they want me to review things. But yeah, it's small enough

663
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:51,337
that I'm able to get to every question. I get to know the people. And

664
00:41:52,238 --> 00:41:56,243
yeah, it's been great. I've loved working with them. And

665
00:41:56,263 --> 00:41:59,447
then also just like, I don't know how it's been for

666
00:41:59,547 --> 00:42:02,886
you, but I've I felt like it's very

667
00:42:02,966 --> 00:42:06,349
common. I mean, there's definitely exceptions to the rule, but it's very common in

668
00:42:06,369 --> 00:42:09,752
the science world for people to be negative and hard on

669
00:42:09,812 --> 00:42:13,434
you. And honestly, sometimes abusive. I've

670
00:42:13,474 --> 00:42:17,097
never really been abused, but I have no situations where people have

671
00:42:17,117 --> 00:42:20,520
been like taken advantage of, like you're supposed to work 20 hour

672
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,383
days. And just like in academia, you

673
00:42:24,623 --> 00:42:27,966
know, like, you just never feel good enough and smart enough and

674
00:42:28,006 --> 00:42:31,249
stuff like that. So I really want to do this to

675
00:42:31,289 --> 00:42:34,632
give back because I was never the

676
00:42:34,672 --> 00:42:38,155
smartest. I was never the best at science, but I was really

677
00:42:38,535 --> 00:42:41,638
dedicated and passionate. And that's how I got through my

678
00:42:41,678 --> 00:42:45,921
PhD. You don't need to be the smartest at all. It's

679
00:42:50,685 --> 00:42:54,007
Yeah, I had a high school teacher who told me that I did not belong

680
00:42:54,047 --> 00:42:57,528
in science and he was a physics teacher And I then screw

681
00:42:57,568 --> 00:43:01,510
you I am good for you. Yeah, that's kind of been my driving factor

682
00:43:01,710 --> 00:43:04,851
like in University Yeah, every time there was a difficult part. I was

683
00:43:06,793 --> 00:43:10,155
Yeah. And some people probably carry that with them the whole life and let them like

684
00:43:10,215 --> 00:43:13,736
not be in science. So I like to be that, that

685
00:43:13,816 --> 00:43:17,198
positive force and support for people that,

686
00:43:17,418 --> 00:43:20,659
that, I mean, I truly believe anyone can do it as, as

687
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,760
long as, um, as long as they want it

688
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,122
in there. Again, you have to be willing to put in the work. You can't just

689
00:43:27,162 --> 00:43:30,308
like. sign up for my program and you'll get a

690
00:43:30,348 --> 00:43:33,511
job. You have to put in the work. But, um, if

691
00:43:33,551 --> 00:43:36,933
you're, and if you're stubborn enough to that's like, like

692
00:43:36,953 --> 00:43:39,995
there are competitive jobs. If you like, I

693
00:43:40,075 --> 00:43:43,538
mean, ocean jobs, like if you want to be a Marine biologist, that's a super

694
00:43:43,578 --> 00:43:46,720
competitive job. Um, if you want to work with

695
00:43:46,780 --> 00:43:49,962
whales and dolphins and stuff, but I think if you're stubborn enough and

696
00:43:49,982 --> 00:43:53,585
you work at it hard along long enough with the right strategy and doing,

697
00:43:53,605 --> 00:43:56,787
doing things with intention, building your network, it can happen for you or

698
00:43:58,225 --> 00:44:01,611
Yeah, absolutely. So how often do you run these groups? Is it done all

699
00:44:01,671 --> 00:44:05,116
throughout the year? Is it like an ongoing group? Or is it like, or

700
00:44:05,136 --> 00:44:08,406
do you do it? you open it up for like a small group and then you

701
00:44:10,266 --> 00:44:14,227
Good question. I've changed it a lot. I

702
00:44:14,247 --> 00:44:17,288
have decided on like, I recently decided on

703
00:44:17,988 --> 00:44:21,409
one strategy. So I have a

704
00:44:21,449 --> 00:44:24,630
couple of different levels. My favorite and the

705
00:44:24,670 --> 00:44:27,890
best level is a successful wildlife professional. That is

706
00:44:28,491 --> 00:44:32,334
my group mentoring program. Um, so it's, it

707
00:44:32,414 --> 00:44:35,679
used to be a year long. Now it's, it's four months worth

708
00:44:35,699 --> 00:44:38,903
of content. Um, you get to, you get to keep it forever though. So

709
00:44:38,943 --> 00:44:42,248
you can pace it however you want, but it's technically you watch like

710
00:44:42,288 --> 00:44:45,913
an hour long training per week and do exercises. and

711
00:44:45,953 --> 00:44:49,475
then every other week we have group mentoring. But

712
00:44:49,495 --> 00:44:52,756
I'm thinking about changing that to weekly, or you

713
00:44:52,776 --> 00:44:56,238
can ask whatever you want. I did have open

714
00:44:56,278 --> 00:44:59,980
enrollment before, then I switched to cohorts. Now,

715
00:45:00,020 --> 00:45:03,242
I'm doing both, where people have

716
00:45:03,262 --> 00:45:06,283
to sign up for the training to get in, and then it's open for a

717
00:45:06,323 --> 00:45:09,545
short period of time, and then I run

718
00:45:09,565 --> 00:45:13,606
the trainings throughout the year. So right now, I'm doing the trainings every

719
00:45:13,707 --> 00:45:17,049
six weeks, Nice. But it

720
00:45:17,069 --> 00:45:20,292
depends on how full the group gets, I think, how often I'll

721
00:45:20,332 --> 00:45:23,915
do the trainings. But I would say at

722
00:45:23,955 --> 00:45:27,338
least three times a year I would have the trainings. And then

723
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:32,894
I have the Job Application Academy. So this is for people who who

724
00:45:32,974 --> 00:45:36,077
know what they want to do. Like they don't, they have the clarity, they

725
00:45:36,117 --> 00:45:39,359
have the experience, but they're, they're just like struggling on

726
00:45:39,379 --> 00:45:42,722
the job applications. And I teach them, it's all the same stuff

727
00:45:42,742 --> 00:45:46,585
from the successful wildlife professional, but just the job application stuff. And

728
00:45:46,605 --> 00:45:50,588
then we do reviews once a month, just on job applications. Um,

729
00:45:50,908 --> 00:45:54,211
and then I have, um, like masterclasses where it's,

730
00:45:57,740 --> 00:46:00,842
Okay, interesting. That's really interesting. So that's one side. We just got into the

731
00:46:00,982 --> 00:46:04,443
one side of your business. Yeah. And that looks really

732
00:46:04,463 --> 00:46:08,045
great. And we'll put some links in so people can check out some more information

733
00:46:08,105 --> 00:46:11,607
on those if they're interested. Great. Also,

734
00:46:11,667 --> 00:46:14,929
you do like a science communication. So this is not the only thing you do. You

735
00:46:14,949 --> 00:46:18,270
do a little bit of science communication. Now, I know you

736
00:46:18,310 --> 00:46:21,552
and I have discussed your TV escapades quite a bit, you know,

737
00:46:21,592 --> 00:46:24,793
going on TV and doing some stuff for the History Channel. How

738
00:46:27,375 --> 00:46:30,436
I started out on TV first through somebody I

739
00:46:30,496 --> 00:46:34,537
knew, my boss at the museum. I think

740
00:46:34,577 --> 00:46:37,998
he got on a TV show from somebody he knew too as well,

741
00:46:38,058 --> 00:46:41,740
Rob Nelson. You should

742
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,761
interview Rob. He's not

743
00:46:45,841 --> 00:46:49,062
exclusive to oceans by any means, but I think he's done some

744
00:46:49,142 --> 00:46:53,183
ocean work. was

745
00:46:53,223 --> 00:46:56,586
a scientist and then he transitioned to communicator, but he does like film.

746
00:46:56,886 --> 00:47:00,188
That's his big thing. Now he's

747
00:47:00,228 --> 00:47:03,650
really successful on YouTube now. He changed a little bit.

748
00:47:03,770 --> 00:47:06,932
He still does science communication, but he changed his name to Stone Age Man and kind

749
00:47:06,972 --> 00:47:10,194
of does some like. I like that name. Yeah, you like him.

750
00:47:10,695 --> 00:47:13,917
But he makes a lot of videos and stuff anyway. So he got us

751
00:47:14,377 --> 00:47:19,241
on the science channels. Show

752
00:47:19,301 --> 00:47:22,524
what on earth and so so then I just did that show

753
00:47:22,584 --> 00:47:26,028
for several years and then independently I

754
00:47:26,809 --> 00:47:30,112
got invited to do a show on the history channel called the proof

755
00:47:30,172 --> 00:47:34,077
is out there and that I got through my youtube channel because

756
00:47:34,217 --> 00:47:38,902
I was just creating content and at

757
00:47:38,922 --> 00:47:42,317
the time I was I did a lot of camera trap

758
00:47:42,377 --> 00:47:45,439
work and people, um, I

759
00:47:45,459 --> 00:47:48,880
would, you know, visit a lot of places too, giving talks and people would always tell

760
00:47:48,900 --> 00:47:52,881
me that they saw a mountain lion or a black panther. And

761
00:47:52,901 --> 00:47:56,062
in North Carolina, we, we used to have mountain lions, but

762
00:47:56,142 --> 00:47:59,383
now they're extinct there. Um, and there are

763
00:47:59,443 --> 00:48:02,905
no black panthers in the United States. So I did a video about that

764
00:48:03,565 --> 00:48:06,806
and slowly but surely over time that blew up and

765
00:48:07,066 --> 00:48:10,728
that's probably my most successful video. Um, and

766
00:48:10,948 --> 00:48:14,090
the people from the history channel, just somebody found my video and they

767
00:48:14,110 --> 00:48:18,113
were like, I really like how you explain things, how you, um,

768
00:48:18,573 --> 00:48:21,935
you know, you didn't like, I, I didn't, um, although

769
00:48:21,955 --> 00:48:25,338
a lot of the commenters probably disagree, I didn't like immediately poo poo

770
00:48:25,418 --> 00:48:28,560
them and be like, no, this doesn't, they don't exist. Like

771
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,802
I went through like, well, like with the evidence that like, why, why we,

772
00:48:32,503 --> 00:48:35,725
we haven't found any evidence of them. So, so now I'm

773
00:48:35,765 --> 00:48:39,207
on this TV show, um, where. where

774
00:48:39,227 --> 00:48:43,132
I evaluate stuff. So a lot of times it's like Bigfoot videos or

775
00:48:43,152 --> 00:48:46,576
just like weird videos, but there's also a lot of like just weird things

776
00:48:46,616 --> 00:48:49,740
happening in nature too that are not well explained or just

777
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:57,097
some animals doing weird things. So

778
00:48:57,577 --> 00:49:00,738
I comment on those things. And then I've just been doing a couple of

779
00:49:00,818 --> 00:49:03,939
extra shows here and there, mostly through that connection, because people from

780
00:49:03,959 --> 00:49:07,361
the history, that's on the History Channel. So people got to know me and

781
00:49:08,121 --> 00:49:11,342
and yeah, so they call me in to do some some extra shows here and there.

782
00:49:11,362 --> 00:49:14,543
I love it. And like, how often do you spend on that?

783
00:49:16,368 --> 00:49:19,812
Oh, good question. It usually

784
00:49:19,852 --> 00:49:25,820
happens maybe like three or four times a year, and I

785
00:49:25,860 --> 00:49:31,696
kind of crunch before the assignment. I hope they're not listening. I

786
00:49:31,756 --> 00:49:34,860
don't I mean I think part of part of the reason why

787
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,083
I do that is because so the stories and stuff will be really fresh in my head and

788
00:49:38,103 --> 00:49:41,306
the information will be fresh in my head because they give

789
00:49:41,366 --> 00:49:44,790
you you know they give you the videos and stuff to review on and

790
00:49:44,850 --> 00:49:48,513
you talk it over with them and you talk about like the different angles

791
00:49:48,593 --> 00:49:52,497
that that will take so for instance if it's a bigfoot video

792
00:49:52,557 --> 00:49:56,120
they would you know, they'll be like, okay, like what other animals live in the area? Could

793
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,863
it be? And like, why couldn't it be that? So, so

794
00:49:59,903 --> 00:50:03,626
sometimes, you know, there's things I might have to research or

795
00:50:03,687 --> 00:50:08,490
look up, like, like, okay,

796
00:50:08,510 --> 00:50:11,693
like, there's this one video with a snake. I still don't

797
00:50:11,733 --> 00:50:14,816
know how it happened. But it got like this algae growing on it. So it

798
00:50:14,836 --> 00:50:18,218
looked like a hair, it looked like a hairy green snake, like, kind

799
00:50:18,238 --> 00:50:21,479
of like a muppet. And it was a real snake, so talking about how I

800
00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:24,740
know it's a snake, and then some things I might have to look up, like how

801
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:29,062
does algae grow on a snake, or how would things happen? But

802
00:50:29,082 --> 00:50:32,203
yeah, so I just study the week and

803
00:50:32,243 --> 00:50:35,524
prepare the week before, usually a couple of hours every

804
00:50:35,584 --> 00:50:39,005
day, and then it's a full day of filming.

805
00:50:39,732 --> 00:50:42,934
That's amazing. And like when you're done, like,

806
00:50:42,954 --> 00:50:46,316
I mean, when you do a full day of filming like that, you get pretty tired

807
00:50:46,376 --> 00:50:49,597
after a while. You're talking all day. You're going through takes and multiple takes and

808
00:50:49,617 --> 00:50:52,959
multiple takes. You must be exhausted. So it's probably good that it's only like three

809
00:50:52,979 --> 00:50:56,101
or four times a year where you're just like, all right, that's good. I got it out of

810
00:50:57,942 --> 00:51:01,644
Yeah. What have you learned the most from doing TV

811
00:51:01,724 --> 00:51:05,626
work with science communication, like traditional TV

812
00:51:07,572 --> 00:51:12,715
That's a good question. Maybe that people love Bigfoot. That's

813
00:51:12,755 --> 00:51:16,296
my fake funny answer. I think my

814
00:51:16,316 --> 00:51:19,957
fake funny answer is that people take cryptids really

815
00:51:20,017 --> 00:51:23,679
seriously. I had no idea. I didn't even

816
00:51:23,699 --> 00:51:27,661
know cryptid was a word. It's like societies. There's

817
00:51:27,721 --> 00:51:37,365
conferences. They take it very, very seriously. Oh,

818
00:51:37,405 --> 00:51:41,348
this is hard. Maybe, I mean, obviously like sensational stuff

819
00:51:41,648 --> 00:51:45,111
is, is interesting. Like, like what,

820
00:51:45,131 --> 00:51:48,273
I mean, I think people are always interested in like the unknown and like

821
00:51:48,333 --> 00:51:51,756
what's left to be discovered and the intriguing. And,

822
00:51:52,757 --> 00:51:56,119
um, I mean, I think so many people probably like Bigfoot and stories

823
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:59,582
like that too, is because they know somebody who has had an experience. That's

824
00:51:59,622 --> 00:52:04,382
another thing is like making it relatable. Um, But

825
00:52:04,462 --> 00:52:08,288
I mean sometimes I guess like also like what people don't

826
00:52:08,408 --> 00:52:11,592
know and what people find interesting and this

827
00:52:11,612 --> 00:52:16,719
kind of goes back to being a scientist. Like when

828
00:52:16,779 --> 00:52:20,984
I first became a scientist or even

829
00:52:21,024 --> 00:52:25,348
into my science career, I felt like I was a terrible scientist because in

830
00:52:25,468 --> 00:52:28,951
school, I was so well at studying. I would just memorize

831
00:52:28,991 --> 00:52:32,333
for a test. And I liked it too. I wasn't just cramming for

832
00:52:32,353 --> 00:52:36,657
the test. But I was good at studying. And then science

833
00:52:36,717 --> 00:52:40,059
is all about figuring out answers to questions that people don't know.

834
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,183
So I had to come up with questions. And I just assumed

835
00:52:44,263 --> 00:52:47,765
so much stuff was known because because

836
00:52:47,785 --> 00:52:52,207
that's what I was taught in school. Here's all the stuff we know.

837
00:52:53,287 --> 00:52:56,528
I think just that there's so much stuff out there that we don't know

838
00:52:56,608 --> 00:53:00,630
still. They had me do this one video about these worms forming

839
00:53:00,650 --> 00:53:04,277
piles. And like, and it was like after

840
00:53:04,337 --> 00:53:07,499
a storm and like, they were like in the middle of the road and they were talking about like, why

841
00:53:07,539 --> 00:53:10,761
would they be in the middle? And it's like, I don't know. I just assumed like people would

842
00:53:10,781 --> 00:53:14,283
know the answer to this, but like people don't. I looked it up and like, there's

843
00:53:14,303 --> 00:53:17,665
these different speculations and, and then also that people

844
00:53:17,705 --> 00:53:20,947
would find that interesting too. Like, Oh, I guess people are interested in

845
00:53:20,967 --> 00:53:24,649
like how the world works and, and strange

846
00:53:24,709 --> 00:53:27,851
phenomenon and stuff like that. And you don't have to, it doesn't have to be

847
00:53:27,931 --> 00:53:31,833
fake. Like, I'm sorry, Bigfoot's not real guys, but. There's

848
00:53:36,114 --> 00:53:39,755
I think one of the best things that I've ever learned was talk to people who are not involved

849
00:53:39,795 --> 00:53:44,676
in science, and maybe not conspiracy theorists like

850
00:53:44,696 --> 00:53:48,797
people, but also take somebody on a hike, or take somebody into

851
00:53:48,837 --> 00:53:52,058
a river area, or a lake area, or an ocean area for me, or even

852
00:53:52,118 --> 00:53:55,919
anywhere, and then listen to the questions that they have. Sometimes

853
00:53:55,939 --> 00:53:59,140
they're the simplest questions, but they are interesting. You'll be like, oh, actually, that

854
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,503
was a really good question. I think oftentimes as biologists, we

855
00:54:03,563 --> 00:54:07,427
often overthink and we're like, what can we give that's super exciting

856
00:54:07,607 --> 00:54:10,911
and that'll go over the top, like for TV or something

857
00:54:10,951 --> 00:54:14,675
like that. I did a TV show as well and it was about evolution

858
00:54:14,735 --> 00:54:17,798
and some of the little things, like just the function, I'm

859
00:54:17,818 --> 00:54:21,161
like, oh, that's interesting. Okay, like people

860
00:54:21,221 --> 00:54:24,504
really want to know about that. Okay, I can do that And

861
00:54:24,664 --> 00:54:27,926
and I think when you hear people or even kids ask questions because then

862
00:54:27,946 --> 00:54:31,269
you're just like yes Okay, these are this is like like the

863
00:54:31,329 --> 00:54:34,751
top of the curiosity chain is when you get to talk to kids Yeah,

864
00:54:34,812 --> 00:54:38,074
as you know when you worked with kids and continue and you're like, okay

865
00:54:38,114 --> 00:54:41,437
now these are questions that people really want to know it's almost like

866
00:54:42,077 --> 00:54:45,300
You know, you have that TV show, Smarter Than a Fifth Grader. It's almost like,

867
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,643
can you ask a question like a fifth grader? Because that would be something I

868
00:54:48,683 --> 00:54:52,045
think that would be really interesting to hear. Like, can you answer a question

869
00:54:52,065 --> 00:54:55,328
from a fifth grader or something like that? Because they always

870
00:54:55,348 --> 00:54:58,451
have great questions, I find, around kids. But

871
00:54:58,491 --> 00:55:01,594
that's interesting. And now so growing the business, like in terms of

872
00:55:01,634 --> 00:55:04,877
science communication, the TV is one aspect. Do you ever get

873
00:55:04,897 --> 00:55:08,341
to work with organizations on their science communication? Have

874
00:55:08,381 --> 00:55:11,944
they ever reached out? Because you do podcasting, you do videos,

875
00:55:11,984 --> 00:55:15,748
you do TV. Do you ever provide advice for

876
00:55:15,928 --> 00:55:19,792
some like organizations or other science communicators themselves?

877
00:55:20,976 --> 00:55:24,399
Um, I have like during my postdoc, I would

878
00:55:24,439 --> 00:55:28,402
be part of like panels and things like that. But since then, not

879
00:55:28,483 --> 00:55:32,065
really. I've just I've just been more focused on my

880
00:55:32,125 --> 00:55:35,308
own business. And honestly, I've been focusing on getting the

881
00:55:35,368 --> 00:55:38,831
career mentoring thing. So so that might be part of the reason why

882
00:55:38,891 --> 00:55:42,594
is I've been really focusing on getting the career mentoring because I've

883
00:55:42,614 --> 00:55:46,177
had to learn so much with I mean, and not only creating

884
00:55:46,217 --> 00:55:49,559
the programs, but also You know, like wondering what

885
00:55:49,579 --> 00:55:52,921
structure of the programs works well, obviously creating the content and

886
00:55:52,941 --> 00:55:56,443
then selling. Like I never thought I would be selling. So,

887
00:55:56,623 --> 00:56:00,225
and science communication is actually kind of selling too. It's the same principle.

888
00:56:01,225 --> 00:56:04,627
So I've had to learn so much with that stuff. And now

889
00:56:05,667 --> 00:56:08,971
I finally feel like I'm kind of. not finished with it,

890
00:56:09,051 --> 00:56:12,914
but at a good place where I can take a back seat. And then next

891
00:56:12,974 --> 00:56:16,036
year, I really want to focus on science communication again. And

892
00:56:16,837 --> 00:56:20,239
also, I did do this kids

893
00:56:20,339 --> 00:56:24,522
program, and I want to revisit that and

894
00:56:24,562 --> 00:56:28,725
do that again, but change it. I started

895
00:56:28,905 --> 00:56:32,368
out initially more like

896
00:56:32,388 --> 00:56:35,850
a teaching kids about the process of science and stuff. And

897
00:56:35,890 --> 00:56:39,047
then Was it last year? Yeah, last year I

898
00:56:39,087 --> 00:56:43,170
worked with a coach. And he helped

899
00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:49,335
me transform it into kind of like a parenting course. Because

900
00:56:49,636 --> 00:56:52,979
he felt that nature and science wouldn't sell on its own. He felt

901
00:56:53,039 --> 00:56:56,322
like parents aren't really looking to

902
00:56:56,602 --> 00:56:59,764
get their kids involved in science. That's not a strong need. But

903
00:56:59,885 --> 00:57:03,828
parents fear losing connection with their kids. So we framed

904
00:57:03,908 --> 00:57:07,634
it as like, to create the best connection and long lasting connection

905
00:57:07,674 --> 00:57:11,196
with your child, like work with them outside on these collaborative projects

906
00:57:11,236 --> 00:57:14,778
in nature, which I totally agree with and, and,

907
00:57:14,798 --> 00:57:18,960
and believe in, but I felt like it kind of took a parenting twist

908
00:57:18,980 --> 00:57:22,301
and I want to, I want to put it back more to be just

909
00:57:22,341 --> 00:57:25,583
about like getting kids outside in nature and getting them connected and getting

910
00:57:25,603 --> 00:57:28,984
them curious. So less of a focus on parenting. So I want

911
00:57:29,004 --> 00:57:32,306
to be doing more of that again next year and yeah,

912
00:57:32,346 --> 00:57:36,048
figuring out how I want to run that and. So yeah,

913
00:57:36,068 --> 00:57:39,230
if your audience members have ideas for like what kinds of things they'd want

914
00:57:39,270 --> 00:57:42,472
to see, but I don't know, I'm thinking about some sort of membership where like I

915
00:57:42,572 --> 00:57:46,134
provide an activity for them to do outside and we have like a community

916
00:57:46,174 --> 00:57:50,076
where they can share and contribute to community science

917
00:57:51,563 --> 00:57:55,166
Yeah, get him like be a part of something bigger maybe or part of

918
00:57:55,207 --> 00:57:58,870
a project like an ongoing project that multiple people can contribute

919
00:57:58,910 --> 00:58:02,033
to. I like that. I like that idea. That's kind of cool. I think the

920
00:58:02,053 --> 00:58:05,256
more you can do with with young children, the better, right?

921
00:58:05,276 --> 00:58:08,630
So they can get that hands on experience, especially with parents and stuff. Oh,

922
00:58:08,670 --> 00:58:12,191
that's awesome. That's awesome. Now, we're kind of coming to the end here. You

923
00:58:12,211 --> 00:58:16,713
know, you and I can talk forever. We do that all the time. And

924
00:58:16,733 --> 00:58:20,194
we didn't even get into the podcast. So

925
00:58:20,234 --> 00:58:23,455
Fancy Scientist is the podcast that you have. Now,

926
00:58:23,515 --> 00:58:26,557
it's on YouTube as well, but it's on

927
00:58:26,657 --> 00:58:30,038
any favorite podcast app that people can get, including Apple Podcasts and

928
00:58:30,078 --> 00:58:33,199
Spotify. And what can people get from the

929
00:58:38,300 --> 00:58:41,662
So it all centers around the idea of

930
00:58:43,243 --> 00:58:46,705
really wildlife. So that's what I've always felt like I've been

931
00:58:46,765 --> 00:58:50,687
about, like my connection to animals and connection to nature. So

932
00:58:51,047 --> 00:58:55,270
I talk about my experiences as a researcher. I

933
00:58:55,690 --> 00:59:00,433
talk about careers. I mean, that's something I've been talking about a lot, careers. I

934
00:59:00,473 --> 00:59:03,754
interview guests. So I interview guests with

935
00:59:03,814 --> 00:59:07,516
all different types of careers, all different types of backgrounds,

936
00:59:07,756 --> 00:59:11,197
basically, I mean, related to our field. So I mean, some people like

937
00:59:11,257 --> 00:59:14,918
I've talked to people who have worked in the climate change sector

938
00:59:14,978 --> 00:59:18,358
of corporations, or

939
00:59:18,458 --> 00:59:22,459
anything related to to lifestyle as well, that

940
00:59:22,499 --> 00:59:25,760
relates even indirectly to wildlife. So I'm also

941
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,602
like super interested in health and Just

942
00:59:29,782 --> 00:59:33,487
even being like a more conscious consumer and stuff like that. Or diet as

943
00:59:33,547 --> 00:59:37,272
well, like how your diet impacts wildlife. So

944
00:59:37,812 --> 00:59:41,197
there's a huge variety of things. I'm also really

945
00:59:41,237 --> 00:59:44,841
big on mindset as well. So sometimes I have episodes about

946
00:59:45,222 --> 00:59:49,006
mindset because as I mentioned before, this career,

947
00:59:49,546 --> 00:59:53,388
um, and the people can have be kind of negative. And

948
00:59:53,408 --> 00:59:56,889
then also just the nature of what we're doing, what we're dealing with, with loss, it

949
00:59:56,909 --> 01:00:00,151
can get depressing. So, um, and then I

950
01:00:00,171 --> 01:00:03,372
just like, I don't know, I'm just really interested in like productivity and efficiency and things like

951
01:00:03,412 --> 01:00:08,214
that. So just like making yourself a better, um, biologist

952
01:00:08,315 --> 01:00:11,736
or, or like whatever career trajectory you're, you're going towards.

953
01:00:11,816 --> 01:00:15,038
So it's a mishmash of things, but it centers around wildlife and

954
01:00:15,996 --> 01:00:19,137
This is what I love about podcasting is everybody can make, the host makes it

955
01:00:19,257 --> 01:00:22,599
what it is. And it's based on your interests and it kind of feeds it

956
01:00:22,619 --> 01:00:25,960
and what you think is needed within sort of the field.

957
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,241
And I think that's really important. And I

958
01:00:33,963 --> 01:00:37,225
Well, that's the thing. It's the same with mine. It's whatever I want to talk about,

959
01:00:37,265 --> 01:00:40,506
but we get to talk about it. That's the fun part, right? Now,

960
01:00:40,606 --> 01:00:43,788
one question, like, what would you, like, as from the experience that

961
01:00:43,808 --> 01:00:47,130
you have from building a business and being sort of in the wildlife career

962
01:00:47,170 --> 01:00:50,571
itself, what advice would you give, like, my listeners here

963
01:00:50,691 --> 01:00:53,953
if, you know, not only are they listening to start a career, but maybe talking about

964
01:00:53,993 --> 01:00:57,215
doing a little bit of a job, like, or working as,

965
01:00:57,255 --> 01:01:01,439
like, building their own business. Like

966
01:01:01,459 --> 01:01:04,583
a side hustle? Yeah. What would the recommendation be

967
01:01:04,623 --> 01:01:08,508
or the best thing you can give? If you had to give one piece of advice, what

968
01:01:08,988 --> 01:01:12,052
First, let me say that even before I became an entrepreneur, when I was a

969
01:01:12,092 --> 01:01:17,618
scientist, I

970
01:01:17,638 --> 01:01:21,079
was like, oh my gosh, my job is so much like being

971
01:01:21,099 --> 01:01:24,881
a business owner, like my dad's. Because when you're a

972
01:01:24,941 --> 01:01:28,682
scientist, especially like, I was never a principal investigator, but

973
01:01:28,722 --> 01:01:32,063
being a postdoc, it was, it kind of felt like that because I

974
01:01:32,103 --> 01:01:35,364
was, you know, at times like writing my own grants and

975
01:01:35,404 --> 01:01:38,705
trying to fund my own projects. But I got to see, you know, the people

976
01:01:38,745 --> 01:01:43,227
I was working with and they were the principal investigators. And

977
01:01:44,468 --> 01:01:47,875
Their science is kind of like a business. They have to

978
01:01:48,075 --> 01:01:51,602
fund their projects, hire

979
01:01:51,902 --> 01:01:55,028
employees, which are either graduate students or field assistants, to

980
01:01:55,088 --> 01:01:58,923
run those projects. And then the output, the

981
01:01:58,983 --> 01:02:02,764
profit, is the publication. So

982
01:02:04,205 --> 01:02:07,586
it's just a different element, but the same

983
01:02:07,646 --> 01:02:12,088
type of system. And that's what my dad would do. He'd get customers to

984
01:02:12,348 --> 01:02:16,090
make money. So it was very similar. And

985
01:02:16,290 --> 01:02:19,711
also, you were probably laughing when I was talking about my dad,

986
01:02:19,751 --> 01:02:23,333
because I never went home and felt like I was off. I could always

987
01:02:23,373 --> 01:02:26,494
be like, Like, I mean, at the time I was applying for jobs, but I

988
01:02:26,534 --> 01:02:29,935
could always be, you know, writing more papers, doing

989
01:02:29,975 --> 01:02:33,196
more data analysis, like coming up with this new idea, setting up this

990
01:02:33,277 --> 01:02:37,698
project, like there was always so many things to do. But

991
01:02:37,778 --> 01:02:41,420
I think, I think the biggest, I'm going

992
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,001
to give two parts, I'm going to cheat and give two answers, but the biggest part

993
01:02:45,061 --> 01:02:48,190
I think is first to know that that it

994
01:02:48,250 --> 01:02:51,792
is really possible for you in this day and age. It is so cool

995
01:02:52,452 --> 01:02:55,833
what people sell online. So I think

996
01:02:55,853 --> 01:02:59,054
my biggest piece of advice is to follow people who are

997
01:02:59,094 --> 01:03:02,356
doing what you want. Follow digital entrepreneurs who

998
01:03:02,416 --> 01:03:05,697
are doing this type of stuff. And there's so many free

999
01:03:05,737 --> 01:03:09,138
podcasts out there, so many free resources to

1000
01:03:09,198 --> 01:03:12,439
help you. One of the people I follow is James Wedmore. He's the

1001
01:03:12,459 --> 01:03:15,621
biggest one I follow. Um, and that there's so

1002
01:03:15,661 --> 01:03:20,122
much opportunity out there. Like he had somebody on his podcast who,

1003
01:03:20,342 --> 01:03:23,663
uh, who taught people how to hike and, and

1004
01:03:24,204 --> 01:03:27,465
he was like joking. He's like, okay, like, how are you making money of this? You're

1005
01:03:27,485 --> 01:03:30,646
just telling people like put one foot in front of the other. And, you know, I

1006
01:03:30,666 --> 01:03:33,967
mean, he was being a jerk, but, um, I mean, I'm purpose to

1007
01:03:34,007 --> 01:03:37,128
be silly, but, um, but this woman, you

1008
01:03:37,168 --> 01:03:40,629
know, she started a business teaching people how to hike. People

1009
01:03:40,689 --> 01:03:43,850
wanted to do backpack. hiking. They

1010
01:03:43,890 --> 01:03:47,051
didn't know how to do it. So she made a course. Here's how you

1011
01:03:47,071 --> 01:03:50,632
do it. And here's how to be safe. Here are the things you need to think about.

1012
01:03:51,252 --> 01:03:54,733
And she made money doing it. So just

1013
01:03:54,833 --> 01:03:58,034
start out. And James will teach you way better

1014
01:03:58,054 --> 01:04:01,335
than I will, but he has so many free resources. just start

1015
01:04:01,395 --> 01:04:05,276
out thinking about what are you, you don't even have to be a full-blown expert,

1016
01:04:05,316 --> 01:04:08,737
but what do you know more about than somebody else that you

1017
01:04:08,757 --> 01:04:12,277
could start teaching them. And it's as simple as, I started mine

1018
01:04:12,497 --> 01:04:16,478
with a posting, I'm thinking about starting a course

1019
01:04:16,518 --> 01:04:20,859
teaching you how to get a career in wildlife. If

1020
01:04:20,899 --> 01:04:24,760
you're interested, drop an emoji and I'll send you the link

1021
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,023
with more information. And it's as simple as that. And

1022
01:04:28,183 --> 01:04:31,708
if you don't want to charge people in the beginning, if you just want to like help people to

1023
01:04:31,748 --> 01:04:34,993
get some ideas, you can do that. You can charge them. You don't have to charge

1024
01:04:35,033 --> 01:04:38,939
them a lot. You can charge them 50 bucks or something. And

1025
01:04:38,979 --> 01:04:42,504
just get that experience of working with people. And

1026
01:04:42,724 --> 01:04:46,765
you just you just don't know, again, like what you can sell. Like people people

1027
01:04:46,805 --> 01:04:50,106
are just looking for help. And and yeah, you

1028
01:04:50,126 --> 01:04:53,286
can probably go online and learn how to hike, but you

1029
01:04:53,326 --> 01:04:56,447
have to sort through all the noise and everything when it's like so

1030
01:04:56,487 --> 01:05:00,308
much nicer to just sign up for a program and watch trainings

1031
01:05:00,548 --> 01:05:04,048
and know that you know how to do it. And then if you have like a group mentoring

1032
01:05:04,068 --> 01:05:07,709
program, you can ask this person questions. So, yeah. So,

1033
01:05:07,749 --> 01:05:11,170
yeah, if you're if you love birds, if you love fish, if you love

1034
01:05:12,117 --> 01:05:15,438
Plants like can you teach a plant identification course or

1035
01:05:15,478 --> 01:05:19,019
a bird like a like bird people are crazy in

1036
01:05:19,039 --> 01:05:22,260
a good way Yeah, can

1037
01:05:22,300 --> 01:05:25,902
you teach an audio course like here's how to learn bird songs like

1038
01:05:25,922 --> 01:05:29,303
yeah Like I'll teach you the top ten bird songs. And yeah again,

1039
01:05:29,343 --> 01:05:32,784
they can do it online. But if you can Teach them

1040
01:05:33,244 --> 01:05:36,845
in a way that makes it faster and easier for them Then you

1041
01:05:36,865 --> 01:05:40,066
have some people even like an audio catalog like you bring

1042
01:05:41,993 --> 01:05:45,378
Yeah, it's a list or something like that and hear the birds it'd be yeah, that's a it's

1043
01:05:45,418 --> 01:05:53,145
a really good idea Well,

1044
01:05:53,165 --> 01:05:56,287
this has been great, Stephanie. This has been awesome. You know,

1045
01:05:56,327 --> 01:05:59,810
you and I, we're good friends and we've become great friends over like talking

1046
01:05:59,850 --> 01:06:03,572
about this, talking about podcasting. So I'm gonna put links to

1047
01:06:03,652 --> 01:06:06,755
your website, to the podcast and everything so people can get access to the

1048
01:06:06,795 --> 01:06:09,977
YouTube channel. So people can get more access to you and connect with you.

1049
01:06:10,957 --> 01:06:14,980
And just, I wanna thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Yeah,

1050
01:06:15,020 --> 01:06:18,382
it's been so much fun to have you on. We'll definitely have you back on

1051
01:06:19,002 --> 01:06:22,884
sooner than later to talk more about science communication

1052
01:06:22,924 --> 01:06:26,165
and everything, but really appreciate you coming on and thank you so much.

1053
01:06:26,765 --> 01:06:30,307
Thank you. Thank you, Stephanie, for joining us here on

1054
01:06:30,327 --> 01:06:33,488
the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. It was great to have you on. You know,

1055
01:06:33,508 --> 01:06:36,730
what's funny is before we did the interview, I was like, hey, when

1056
01:06:36,750 --> 01:06:39,991
was the last time you were on? She was like, I don't think I've ever been on. And I was like, yes, right. And

1057
01:06:40,011 --> 01:06:43,052
she goes, when was the last time you were on my podcast? I think I did it, but she's like, no, I

1058
01:06:43,072 --> 01:06:46,653
don't think you did. And we haven't gone on each other's podcast

1059
01:06:46,913 --> 01:06:50,214
and been able to speak about what we do, but we are doing that now. So

1060
01:06:50,234 --> 01:06:53,634
you can check out the fancy scientists podcast with

1061
01:06:53,674 --> 01:06:56,955
me on it soon. We're still, we're still about to record that next

1062
01:06:57,015 --> 01:07:00,136
week, but it's going to be a lot of fun and you should

1063
01:07:00,156 --> 01:07:03,836
check that podcast out. But also just like what information, great

1064
01:07:03,876 --> 01:07:07,417
information that she led, like let us have here on this episode,

1065
01:07:07,457 --> 01:07:10,979
like, It was great. It's been a while since we've talked podcasting and

1066
01:07:11,419 --> 01:07:14,641
not only podcasting, but conservation careers. And a lot of

1067
01:07:14,681 --> 01:07:17,903
times it's me talking about it. It's great to see somebody else having a

1068
01:07:17,943 --> 01:07:21,585
very similar position, but also a little bit different in their approach. And

1069
01:07:21,605 --> 01:07:24,707
I really like the approach she takes. I think it's really great. So if you want to

1070
01:07:24,727 --> 01:07:28,029
take one of her courses, please feel free to do so. You can go

1071
01:07:28,209 --> 01:07:31,811
over to her website, which the link is in the show notes below. Or

1072
01:07:31,851 --> 01:07:35,092
if you're watching this on YouTube, it's in the description. And you

1073
01:07:35,132 --> 01:07:38,473
can just click on that and go over there and find out more about Stephanie. But

1074
01:07:38,513 --> 01:07:42,014
that's it for today's episode. I want to thank you all for joining me

1075
01:07:42,134 --> 01:07:45,455
today with Stephanie. I want to thank Stephanie for joining us and taking

1076
01:07:45,495 --> 01:07:49,396
time out of her busy time building her business and being able to

1077
01:07:49,536 --> 01:07:52,697
share those great knowledge bombs with us today. So thank

1078
01:07:52,717 --> 01:07:56,278
you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

1079
01:07:56,298 --> 01:07:59,599
I'm your host Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy