How McKnsea Balances Her Marine Career and Content Creation to Inspire Ocean Advocacy

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A few episodes ago, I talked about ocean

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conservation careers and how

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important it was to understand

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that there are certain decisions in your

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life that will be

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difficult at that time, but will

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change the course of your career.

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And I wanted to get a couple of people on

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to show examples of that.

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And I did that last time with Kenzie

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Horton, who talked about

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being a science communicator

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and working in a job where she's a

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fisheries biologist, and then

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she ends up doing a master's

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afterwards and making those decisions

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that went into dedicating herself to

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doing a full time job and a master's at

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the same time on two different subjects.

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But that makes her life more difficult.

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It makes her life a lot busier, but she

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does it because she loves it. And she

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made that hard decision and it ends up

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working out for her. Today on the

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podcast, I have another guest who's very

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similar in these types of decisions that

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she made to be able to say, hey, what the

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decision I made, I'm actually looking

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forward to, because it's led me down this

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really cool path. That is Mackenzie,

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Margaret, she is on the podcast today. She is on the podcast today. She's a

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she is on the podcast today. She is known

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as Mackenzie on TikTok and on Instagram.

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She's got a website out, all those links

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in the show notes. But I want you to hear

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this interview because it's a lot of fun

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to be able to see someone who makes

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decisions based on a lot of different

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factors in their lives. And it's turning

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out to look pretty good for them, no

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matter which path they take. So it's

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always great to hear from those. And I

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know we're all going through the same

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thing. So I want to talk about it on

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today's episode of the How to Protect the

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Ocean podcast. Let's start the show.

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Hey, everybody, welcome back to another

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exciting episode of the How to Protect

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the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew

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Lewin. This is the podcast where you find

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out what's happening with the ocean, how

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you could speak up for the ocean and what

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you can do to live for a

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better ocean by taking action.

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And on today's episode, we have a great

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one for you. We have Mackenzie Margaret,

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who's on the podcast. He's been on my

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bucket list for a while for having to be

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a guest on the podcast. I have this list,

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this ever surprising list. I come across

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people, I follow them, I listen to them,

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I become fans of them. I try and get them

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on the podcast. And a lot of times

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they're busy because they're doing so

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much. The people that we all follow, the

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people that we see on social media, the

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people that we see writing a bunch of

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papers or doing some really incredible

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things on TV or even on the podcast, they're doing a lot of things.

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And so they tend to be pretty busy and so

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they tend not to have a ton of time

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available. And so I was really, I'm

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always so grateful when people like

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Mackenzie and Kenzie last time were able

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to make some time to come on the podcast

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and introduce them to you, right?

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And I'm able to tell themselves to you

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and me as well. And I'm able to pull

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their story out so that people can get

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their story and then they can become

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bigger fans of them when they follow them

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on social media if they're not already

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following Mackenzie is an amazing person.

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She has been a huge advocate of science

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communication, a huge advocate and

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supporter of sustainable seafood. She's

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been a huge advocate and supporter of

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marine scientists that are within the

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LGBTQ plus community.

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She's been a huge advocate of sharing and

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educating the masses on marine science in

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general. She's a naturalist. She loves

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science. She loves the ocean. She grew up

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in Hawaii. But I don't want to give all

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of a way right now. I want you to listen

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to the interview because she's just a

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wonderful person and she

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just loves what she does.

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And I think that's what oftentimes we

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understand that marine scientists and

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educators and science committees are

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passionate, but you really get how

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passionate there. But I really love the

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decisions that she made over her career

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and where it's led her currently and how

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she's like, I don't regret any of it.

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They were tough decisions at the time. I

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don't regret any of it. I'm really happy

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with the choices I've made. And I love

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where my path is going now. She's a young

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scientist. She's going to be, you know,

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she's is and it's going to be an amazing

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scientist. She's going to

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be more people that follow.

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She's got over 350,000 followers on

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TikTok, almost 10,000 followers on

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Instagram. And she just continues to

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brighten my day every time I see a video

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because she puts so much work into it.

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And in this interview, she talks about

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how much work she puts into those science

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communication pieces, how much she puts

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into like the decision making, what she

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has a plan for the future. And I can't

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wait for you to hear. So here's the

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interview with Mackenzie Margaret. I

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can't wait for you to listen. Enjoy and I

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will talk to you after.

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After Hey Mackenzie, welcome to the how

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to protect the ocean podcast. Are you

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ready to talk about all things ocean

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science and science communication? Of

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course, absolutely. Wonderful. I am so

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excited for this episode. As I mentioned

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to you before Mackenzie before we start

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recording, you have been on my guest

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bucket list for this podcast for quite

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some time now. I've been watching you on

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TikTok and watching on Instagram for

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quite some time, loving your videos,

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loving what you've been able to do and

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the education that you

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bring and kind of the

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bringing to light some of the issues that

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we talked about here on the podcast a

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number of times and some of the stuff

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that it's still surprising that we still

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have to talk about it and we still have

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to engage with it. But it's good to be

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discussing and we'll discuss that on this

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episode as well as your foray into

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science communication and your success

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into that and how that's changed your

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perspective in terms of marine science

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and education. So can't wait to get into

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all that. But before we get started

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Mackenzie, why don't

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you just let the audience

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know who you are and what you do. For

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sure. I also very excited. That was very

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sweet. Thank you. I'm Mackenzie

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Margareth. I'm a marine scientist. I

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mostly focus right now on sustainable

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seafood. So fisheries and aquaculture as

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well as like coastal ecology, how those

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things impact our coastal ecosystems. I'm

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a marine naturalist. I'm a science

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communicator. So as you said, I create a

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lot of videos on TikTok on Instagram in

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order to bring in the general public on

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to what we're doing in the science.

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I feel like we don't do a very good job

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of that a lot of the time. So I am trying

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my best to bridge that gap as best as

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possible. Yeah, I love it. And you're

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doing a great job. Fantastic job. And I'm

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not the only one who thinks that too. I

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know there's a lot of people who think

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that and all your followers who think

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that as well, which you've amassed quite

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a few, which is which is wonderful. How

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did it all start? You know, like where

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did this all this story

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begin of you wanting to become

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a marine scientist? Oh, I always loved

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the ocean. I was always a water person.

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My family called me little fish growing

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up because I was just always a water

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person. And so when I was in high school,

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I went to high school in Hawaii. I went

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on this like my high school is right on

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the side of Diamond Head. We could see

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the ocean all the time. And so I took a

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class like a marine biology high school

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class. Absolutely loved it. It was

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spectacular. And then when I was going

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into my undergrad, I like I didn't

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grow up with a lot of financial security.

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And of course, I went to I went to a

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private high school, and I was a

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scholarship student. So I was surrounded

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by a lot of people who did have that

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financial security. And I was like, I

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want that that's something that I would

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desire in my life. And so when I was

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making the decision on what to do, that

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was a huge factor for me. And so I

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originally went into school for

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forensics. So like my little degree here

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is a degree in forensic science, you can

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see that the bottom there says forensic

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science is a huge factor
for me. And so I

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went into forensics. I because I went

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into forensics, because I was like, that

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is the thing that will get me paid.

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That's the thing that will be financially

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secure for me. Yeah. And so I did about a

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year. And one of my professors came up to

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me and was like, Hey, you're a great

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scientist. You you do really well. You

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you're a good, good student. You're a

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good scientist. You seem miserable. Like

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you seem miserable and what you're doing.

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This does not seem like you're happy.

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Like you're just here and you're just

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doing it. And she was like, is that

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something that you're doing?

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That you genuinely want? Like, is that

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what you want? Like, you know, you're,

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you you are picking a career that you're

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going to do every single day for the rest

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of your life. Like, yes, it'll bring you

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financial security. But are you going to

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be okay with being a bit miserable, a bit

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not not having fun, not enjoying? And I

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was like, I don't know, like, I would I

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would like that financial security. I

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don't know. That's that's a really tough

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call. It's a really hard thing for like a

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19 year old to decide.

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Where you're deciding like the rest of

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your life. Yeah, you and you've been

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through, you know, some financial

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difficulties in the past. And you're

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like, Well, look, I just want to be able

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to pay my bills and join my life. But you

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know, good on this professor for kind of

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calling it out, you're doing well, the

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professor could have just said, Yeah, I'm

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just gonna keep, keep going through and

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let's see how how they do. And you're

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like, okay, but then call you up. You're

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like, hey, look, like,

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you know, she was very sweet. And I think

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about her all the time, because she also

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made me her TA, like, she was an

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incredible professor, shout out to you,

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Dr. Cockbell. But she, yeah, she was just

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kind of like, you know, I don't know,

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like, because my plan was always to like

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do forensics, and then like, have the

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ocean be my life side thing, you know,

263
01:08:50,875 --> 01:08:52,916
the thing that I like, volunteer on the

264
01:08:52,916 --> 01:08:55,208
weekends. And that like, is like, because

265
01:08:55,208 --> 01:08:57,000
there's always been that also advice that

266
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,250
people have given you that like, don't

267
01:08:58,250 --> 01:09:00,291
make your passion, like your career, like

268
01:09:00,291 --> 01:09:01,583
a lot of people that like love to cook,

269
01:09:01,583 --> 01:09:02,750
like don't become a chef.

270
01:09:02,833 --> 01:09:04,666
Because then it kind of ruins your your

271
01:09:04,666 --> 01:09:06,333
love of cooking, because you're doing it

272
01:09:06,333 --> 01:09:08,833
all the time. And so that was kind of my

273
01:09:08,833 --> 01:09:10,375
mentality was like, I don't want to do

274
01:09:10,375 --> 01:09:11,458
this all the time, because I don't want

275
01:09:11,458 --> 01:09:13,875
to lose my love, my love will be on the

276
01:09:13,875 --> 01:09:15,833
side, I'll make my money, I'll be able to

277
01:09:15,833 --> 01:09:17,250
do the things that was kind of my plan.

278
01:09:17,250 --> 01:09:19,166
And she was like, I understand all that.

279
01:09:19,625 --> 01:09:21,041
And she was like, Well, how about for the

280
01:09:21,041 --> 01:09:23,625
summer, we have, I went to a small

281
01:09:23,625 --> 01:09:25,416
private university in Hawaii, it's called

282
01:09:25,416 --> 01:09:29,541
Chaminade. And we, the Dean of my

283
01:09:29,541 --> 01:09:31,416
department was really close friends with

284
01:09:31,416 --> 01:09:32,791
this incredible woman named

285
01:09:32,833 --> 01:09:35,541
Dr. Ruth Gates, Dr. Ruth Gates, very,

286
01:09:35,541 --> 01:09:38,541
very big name in the coral industry. And

287
01:09:38,541 --> 01:09:40,875
they were really close friends. And Dr.

288
01:09:40,875 --> 01:09:43,000
Gates was out of UH, so out of the

289
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:46,125
University of Hawaii. And they had never

290
01:09:46,125 --> 01:09:48,875
had somebody from my university go to her

291
01:09:48,875 --> 01:09:50,750
lab, that had never happened, because she

292
01:09:50,750 --> 01:09:52,916
only really accepted UH students. But

293
01:09:52,916 --> 01:09:55,250
because her and my Dean were friends,

294
01:09:55,250 --> 01:09:56,708
were really close friends, she was like,

295
01:09:56,708 --> 01:09:59,250
I will give you one student to send to my

296
01:09:59,250 --> 01:10:01,666
lab as a tester student. And if that goes

297
01:10:01,666 --> 01:10:02,791
well, you can send more students to my lab.

298
01:10:02,833 --> 01:10:07,083
No pressure. So no pressure. So I became

299
01:10:07,083 --> 01:10:09,458
that student, right? I asked to be that

300
01:10:09,458 --> 01:10:11,458
student was like, Hey, do you wanna, do

301
01:10:11,458 --> 01:10:13,291
you want to go be that student be the you

302
01:10:13,291 --> 01:10:15,541
know, be the example? And I was like,

303
01:10:15,541 --> 01:10:17,625
sure, you know what, it was on coconut

304
01:10:17,625 --> 01:10:19,500
island, which if anybody I'm sure this is

305
01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:22,291
like way too dated of a reference for

306
01:10:22,291 --> 01:10:24,583
some people, but Gilligan's island,

307
01:10:24,791 --> 01:10:27,000
right? That was where that was filmed is

308
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:28,708
coconut island. Yeah. And that's where

309
01:10:28,708 --> 01:10:30,500
the Institute is. That's where the Hawaii

310
01:10:30,500 --> 01:10:31,166
Institute for Marine

311
01:10:31,166 --> 01:10:32,791
Biology is. And so I was like,

312
01:10:32,833 --> 01:10:35,041
well, why not? Like I can go out to HIV

313
01:10:35,041 --> 01:10:36,500
and go sit on the aisle, you have to take

314
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:37,708
a little boat out there. I was like,

315
01:10:37,708 --> 01:10:39,208
sure, I can go I can go send a son to

316
01:10:39,208 --> 01:10:43,500
some role island. I guess. Yeah. So I

317
01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:45,458
did. And I remember my first day there,

318
01:10:45,791 --> 01:10:48,625
they were touring me around. The woman

319
01:10:48,625 --> 01:10:51,208
who was in was Dr. Holly Putnam. She was

320
01:10:51,208 --> 01:10:54,166
Ruth Gates, like, PI, like one of her

321
01:10:54,166 --> 01:10:56,541
head invest or had researchers. And she

322
01:10:56,541 --> 01:10:58,041
was touring me around. She was doing all

323
01:10:58,041 --> 01:10:59,541
of this stuff. She was talking to me

324
01:10:59,541 --> 01:11:01,166
about like ocean acidification and the

325
01:11:01,166 --> 01:11:02,750
impacts on coral. And I was like,

326
01:11:03,250 --> 01:11:04,625
whoa, I didn't know any of this. Like

327
01:11:04,625 --> 01:11:07,250
I've been so focused on forensics that I

328
01:11:07,250 --> 01:11:09,666
missed so much of what's going on. And

329
01:11:09,666 --> 01:11:11,833
the very first day I was like, this is

330
01:11:11,833 --> 01:11:14,000
what I'm doing. I'm not going back. This

331
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,625
is it. This is what I'm doing. And so I

332
01:11:16,625 --> 01:11:18,833
didn't change my degree just because I

333
01:11:18,833 --> 01:11:20,791
was paying for it for myself. And in

334
01:11:20,791 --> 01:11:23,041
order to do that, we extend the time that

335
01:11:23,041 --> 01:11:24,708
I was there. And I was like, I don't

336
01:11:24,708 --> 01:11:26,416
think I'm going to be able to financially

337
01:11:26,416 --> 01:11:30,083
pull that off. But I did turn all of my

338
01:11:30,083 --> 01:11:32,791
research into marine research. I got a

339
01:11:32,833 --> 01:11:35,333
minor in chemistry. And so I did a lot of

340
01:11:35,333 --> 01:11:37,708
stuff within the field. And that allowed

341
01:11:37,708 --> 01:11:40,458
me to continue on in from marine biology

342
01:11:40,458 --> 01:11:44,541
afterwards. So what an opportunity. Think

343
01:11:44,541 --> 01:11:46,250
about it like you're the first student

344
01:11:46,250 --> 01:11:48,291
that was ever accepted from a different

345
01:11:48,291 --> 01:11:51,791
university. And like you had the passion,

346
01:11:51,791 --> 01:11:54,166
obviously. And you had, you know, you had

347
01:11:54,166 --> 01:11:56,041
the ability to do it. That wasn't a

348
01:11:56,041 --> 01:11:58,041
question. But like, what an opportunity

349
01:11:58,041 --> 01:11:59,500
because it never happened before that

350
01:11:59,500 --> 01:12:01,333
professor, you know, pulls you out and

351
01:12:01,333 --> 01:12:02,125
just be like, hey, I

352
01:12:02,125 --> 01:12:02,750
think you might be good

353
01:12:02,833 --> 01:12:03,916
for this opportunity to do it. And then

354
01:12:03,916 --> 01:12:05,041
all of a sudden, you're like, I'm never

355
01:12:05,041 --> 01:12:08,375
going back. Yeah. How difficult was it to

356
01:12:08,375 --> 01:12:12,500
infuse, like the marine science part into

357
01:12:12,500 --> 01:12:15,541
your forensics, you know, type of work

358
01:12:15,541 --> 01:12:17,916
like it with all your coursework and

359
01:12:17,916 --> 01:12:19,625
projects and stuff like that? I can't

360
01:12:19,625 --> 01:12:20,458
that couldn't have been easy.

361
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:24,166
Um, it wasn't as difficult as I think it

362
01:12:24,166 --> 01:12:26,291
would seem. There's actually a lot more

363
01:12:26,291 --> 01:12:28,208
crossover than you would imagine. So

364
01:12:28,208 --> 01:12:30,458
like, learning genetics and learning all

365
01:12:30,458 --> 01:12:32,333
of this stuff, it was very useful for

366
01:12:32,333 --> 01:12:34,000
what I was doing, I ended up doing a lot

367
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,208
of genetic work on coral. And so I was

368
01:12:36,208 --> 01:12:37,958
able to kind of kind of cross those

369
01:12:37,958 --> 01:12:39,875
things over. Of course, there was things

370
01:12:39,875 --> 01:12:41,125
like learning fingerprints, that was

371
01:12:41,125 --> 01:12:41,708
like, I'm never gonna do.

372
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:45,291
But you know, it's also just like useful

373
01:12:45,291 --> 01:12:46,833
to have. And then one of the things that

374
01:12:46,833 --> 01:12:48,625
I always talk about that was really,

375
01:12:48,625 --> 01:12:49,958
really interesting that really crossed

376
01:12:49,958 --> 01:12:51,500
over for me was I learned a lot about

377
01:12:51,500 --> 01:12:54,125
law, like a good portion of learning

378
01:12:54,125 --> 01:12:56,458
forensics was learning law. And so

379
01:12:56,458 --> 01:12:58,000
learning law, learning policies, learning

380
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,291
how all this comes into place, helped me

381
01:13:00,291 --> 01:13:02,666
understand how environmental stuff comes

382
01:13:02,666 --> 01:13:04,083
into place, how environmental policies

383
01:13:04,083 --> 01:13:08,166
are utilized. You know, what we do as far

384
01:13:08,166 --> 01:13:09,708
as environment when people are breaking environmental laws, and then they're like, oh, I'm going to do this.

385
01:13:09,708 --> 01:13:12,791
Are breaking environmental laws or how

386
01:13:12,791 --> 01:13:14,916
those things go about was actually quite

387
01:13:14,916 --> 01:13:16,375
useful. And it's something that I still

388
01:13:16,375 --> 01:13:19,208
use to this day of being like, I actually

389
01:13:19,208 --> 01:13:23,458
know how this process works. Yeah, it was

390
01:13:23,458 --> 01:13:25,416
a lot. There was a lot more crossover

391
01:13:25,416 --> 01:13:27,500
than I think a lot of people would

392
01:13:27,500 --> 01:13:29,166
realize that they seem very, very

393
01:13:29,166 --> 01:13:31,083
opposite. But at the same time, science

394
01:13:31,083 --> 01:13:33,458
has a lot. And it was also, it's an

395
01:13:33,458 --> 01:13:35,041
undergraduate degree, right? So there is

396
01:13:35,041 --> 01:13:36,791
just kind of, it's a basis of

397
01:13:36,791 --> 01:13:38,708
science. So that kind of helps.

398
01:13:39,708 --> 01:13:41,666
But when I think a lot of people think

399
01:13:41,666 --> 01:13:43,833
that you have to go and do your undergrad

400
01:13:43,833 --> 01:13:46,500
in marine biology. And I think that's a

401
01:13:46,500 --> 01:13:48,625
huge myth within within the industry,

402
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,000
like, sure, biology helps a science

403
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,541
degree helps, whether it's chemistry,

404
01:13:52,541 --> 01:13:54,208
whether it's physics, whether it's

405
01:13:54,208 --> 01:13:56,750
biology, could be really anything, you

406
01:13:56,750 --> 01:13:58,750
could technically go to arts, maybe have

407
01:13:58,750 --> 01:13:59,916
to do a couple courses if you

408
01:13:59,916 --> 01:14:01,375
want to go into graduate work.

409
01:14:01,708 --> 01:14:05,625
But you really just need the basics at

410
01:14:05,625 --> 01:14:07,458
that point. And you can if you decide to

411
01:14:07,458 --> 01:14:09,125
go to grad school, if you decide to go

412
01:14:09,125 --> 01:14:11,083
and do a job, you have the science

413
01:14:11,083 --> 01:14:13,208
degree. It makes it really it doesn't

414
01:14:13,208 --> 01:14:15,333
make it too difficult to transfer that

415
01:14:15,333 --> 01:14:16,958
knowledge over, especially if you've done

416
01:14:16,958 --> 01:14:19,416
most of your projects on on marine stuff.

417
01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:21,916
And I'd like the idea of trying to be

418
01:14:21,916 --> 01:14:23,958
creative, really, you know, biting into

419
01:14:23,958 --> 01:14:26,416
the genetics aspect of course, because

420
01:14:26,416 --> 01:14:27,833
you're learning something that needs to

421
01:14:27,833 --> 01:14:29,416
be learned anyway, it's not as if it's

422
01:14:29,416 --> 01:14:30,958
information that doesn't need to be

423
01:14:30,958 --> 01:14:32,541
learned or researched.

424
01:14:32,791 --> 01:14:34,833
And so you're able to do that. And then

425
01:14:34,833 --> 01:14:36,791
you're you almost become creative, you

426
01:14:36,791 --> 01:14:38,500
can use that as a bit of a, you know,

427
01:14:38,833 --> 01:14:40,791
their resume is, look, I went into a

428
01:14:40,791 --> 01:14:42,916
forensics degree and I use marine science

429
01:14:42,916 --> 01:14:44,458
to do it. Like, don't tell me I'm not

430
01:14:44,458 --> 01:14:46,458
creative when I when I'm able to do that.

431
01:14:46,708 --> 01:14:48,625
I love that, that aspect. So when you

432
01:14:48,625 --> 01:14:51,458
graduated there, what was your next step?

433
01:14:51,458 --> 01:14:53,208
You have all this marine science, you're

434
01:14:53,208 --> 01:14:55,583
now infused with it, you're inspired by

435
01:14:55,583 --> 01:14:57,833
it. You've had the opportunities, you're

436
01:14:57,833 --> 01:15:00,416
living in like paradise, like in Hawaii.

437
01:15:01,666 --> 01:15:02,791
You know, I say this from someone who

438
01:15:02,791 --> 01:15:04,375
just visited there, but I say this as

439
01:15:04,375 --> 01:15:07,458
someone who always loved Hawaii. What was

440
01:15:07,458 --> 01:15:08,916
the next step? Like, what were you what

441
01:15:08,916 --> 01:15:09,416
was your thought

442
01:15:09,416 --> 01:15:10,625
process when you graduated?

443
01:15:11,750 --> 01:15:13,000
First, I want to give like a little piece

444
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,750
of advice. Yeah, looking into it. When I

445
01:15:15,750 --> 01:15:17,458
something that I was somebody had told me

446
01:15:17,458 --> 01:15:19,166
is that if you are interested in science

447
01:15:19,166 --> 01:15:21,458
at all, like go into your undergrad with

448
01:15:21,458 --> 01:15:23,375
a general science degree, go for like

449
01:15:23,375 --> 01:15:26,541
biology or bio chem or something along

450
01:15:26,541 --> 01:15:29,125
those lines, and then do internships and

451
01:15:29,125 --> 01:15:30,708
do research in the different fields that

452
01:15:30,708 --> 01:15:32,000
you're interested in, because you never

453
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:33,125
know what you're going to like until

454
01:15:33,125 --> 01:15:34,666
you're actually doing it.

455
01:15:35,041 --> 01:15:36,500
I thought I was going to love forensics.

456
01:15:36,500 --> 01:15:37,333
I thought that was going to be such a

457
01:15:37,333 --> 01:15:40,333
cool investigative, very creative. And

458
01:15:40,333 --> 01:15:41,750
then I kind of discovered that's not what

459
01:15:41,750 --> 01:15:43,791
it was that my idea of what forensic was

460
01:15:43,791 --> 01:15:46,875
was not real. And so, you know, I didn't

461
01:15:46,875 --> 01:15:49,250
know that until I was actively in it. So

462
01:15:49,250 --> 01:15:51,041
my little piece of advice I always try

463
01:15:51,041 --> 01:15:52,583
and give is that just just do something

464
01:15:52,583 --> 01:15:54,791
general and do and practice and go for as

465
01:15:54,791 --> 01:15:56,291
many internships and see what you really

466
01:15:56,291 --> 01:15:57,625
like, because then you can

467
01:15:57,625 --> 01:15:58,708
specialize in graduate school.

468
01:15:58,750 --> 01:16:01,166
And you can do on from there. Yeah. And

469
01:16:01,166 --> 01:16:02,916
you can even major in things in you in

470
01:16:02,916 --> 01:16:05,041
undergrad to if you decide to do it

471
01:16:05,041 --> 01:16:07,500
later. I went in with an agricultural

472
01:16:07,500 --> 01:16:10,041
science program, and I ended up switching

473
01:16:10,041 --> 01:16:12,916
over to like a marine biology degree

474
01:16:12,916 --> 01:16:14,791
afterwards. So like you can always go in

475
01:16:14,791 --> 01:16:16,708
different places, just know what kind of

476
01:16:16,708 --> 01:16:18,458
courses you're interested in, or what

477
01:16:18,458 --> 01:16:19,666
interests you at the time, and it might

478
01:16:19,666 --> 01:16:20,583
change. I think that's a

479
01:16:20,583 --> 01:16:21,916
great, great piece of advice.

480
01:16:22,833 --> 01:16:25,583
Yeah, but what I did afterwards, so I

481
01:16:25,583 --> 01:16:29,416
actually graduated in 2015 with my

482
01:16:29,416 --> 01:16:32,166
undergrad. So if you can remember the

483
01:16:32,166 --> 01:16:36,250
timeline, that was the year of our first

484
01:16:36,250 --> 01:16:42,000
Trump presidency was 2016. Yeah, yeah. I

485
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:44,791
was starting a graduate program at UH

486
01:16:44,791 --> 01:16:47,666
actually with Dr. Ruth Ruth Gates lab. So

487
01:16:47,666 --> 01:16:49,500
I was doing something with her lab, I

488
01:16:49,500 --> 01:16:51,125
started a graduate program at UH.

489
01:16:51,916 --> 01:16:55,791
And then Trump presidency came into play

490
01:16:55,791 --> 01:17:00,041
and funding got really, really finicky. A

491
01:17:00,041 --> 01:17:02,000
lot, a lot of funding was lost to the

492
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:04,208
university. And I bought this letter one

493
01:17:04,208 --> 01:17:06,500
day that was like, Hey, we've reevaluated

494
01:17:06,500 --> 01:17:10,291
your portfolio, and we are now basically

495
01:17:10,291 --> 01:17:13,458
tripling your tuition. And my stipend

496
01:17:13,458 --> 01:17:14,666
through my university wouldn't have

497
01:17:14,666 --> 01:17:15,708
covered it covered it.

498
01:17:15,708 --> 01:17:19,458
Oh, yeah, it was, it was nearly tripled.

499
01:17:19,666 --> 01:17:23,041
It was when it went. It was it was it was

500
01:17:23,041 --> 01:17:28,916
a crazy letter to receive. And so I had

501
01:17:28,916 --> 01:17:32,166
this like, wow, okay, that's insane. And

502
01:17:32,166 --> 01:17:35,625
I remember I went to this protest, like

503
01:17:35,625 --> 01:17:38,375
maybe two months after that, and I had

504
01:17:38,375 --> 01:17:39,875
this sign that said girls just want to

505
01:17:39,875 --> 01:17:41,041
have funding for the research.

506
01:17:41,708 --> 01:17:44,083
And I was like, I was like, I, this is

507
01:17:44,083 --> 01:17:47,000
crazy how quickly I lost funding and how

508
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,958
quickly it all happened. And so I tried

509
01:17:50,958 --> 01:17:53,750
originally to do all of it to do the

510
01:17:53,750 --> 01:17:56,291
research and then to also get a job. And

511
01:17:56,291 --> 01:17:57,375
the job that I got was

512
01:17:57,375 --> 01:17:59,041
being a marine naturalist.

513
01:17:59,750 --> 01:18:02,583
So I, that's how I'm in the boats. Yeah,

514
01:18:02,583 --> 01:18:04,583
yeah. Okay. I'm like touring boats with

515
01:18:04,583 --> 01:18:06,791
the tourists. And I really loved it. And

516
01:18:06,791 --> 01:18:09,125
unfortunately, it was too much. And I did

517
01:18:09,125 --> 01:18:10,666
end up having to drop out of my program,

518
01:18:10,875 --> 01:18:13,125
which still makes me sad to this day. But

519
01:18:13,125 --> 01:18:15,500
that's how life goes. You never know what

520
01:18:15,500 --> 01:18:16,750
life's going to throw at you. And there's

521
01:18:16,750 --> 01:18:18,416
always something that's around the corner

522
01:18:18,416 --> 01:18:20,583
that you don't know about. And I think

523
01:18:20,583 --> 01:18:21,708
that for me, that was being a marine

524
01:18:21,708 --> 01:18:23,666
naturalist. I started being a marine

525
01:18:23,666 --> 01:18:24,875
naturalist. I became a humpback

526
01:18:24,875 --> 01:18:27,958
naturalist. I worked for this company

527
01:18:27,958 --> 01:18:29,708
that allowed me to transfer to a

528
01:18:29,708 --> 01:18:32,375
another island. So I grew up on Oahu. And

529
01:18:32,375 --> 01:18:35,000
then my partner and I got an opportunity

530
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:36,708
to move to the Big Island. So we moved to

531
01:18:36,708 --> 01:18:38,166
the Big Island for a year and a half. And

532
01:18:38,166 --> 01:18:41,333
I was working on a submarine, which was a

533
01:18:41,333 --> 01:18:43,291
very popular thing that I've talked about

534
01:18:43,291 --> 01:18:46,333
on Instagram, or on TikTok. So that's

535
01:18:46,333 --> 01:18:47,708
where I worked on the submarine as a

536
01:18:47,708 --> 01:18:50,750
naturalist and as a co pilot. And then we

537
01:18:50,750 --> 01:18:52,583
ended up, you know, leaving Hawaii

538
01:18:52,583 --> 01:18:54,708
altogether because my goal was always to

539
01:18:54,708 --> 01:18:56,500
go back to school, I always wanted to

540
01:18:56,500 --> 01:18:58,916
return. And it was kind of those one of

541
01:18:58,916 --> 01:18:59,708
those things that I partnered with. And I

542
01:18:59,708 --> 01:19:01,375
remember, I remember like, if we want to

543
01:19:01,375 --> 01:19:03,791
do this, we're gonna have to leave the

544
01:19:03,791 --> 01:19:05,083
most expensive state in the United

545
01:19:05,083 --> 01:19:09,541
States. It is a very expensive place. You

546
01:19:09,541 --> 01:19:12,333
know, we're both working full time job.

547
01:19:12,333 --> 01:19:15,041
She even had a second job, just to afford

548
01:19:15,041 --> 01:19:16,291
to live, right? You don't really get to

549
01:19:16,291 --> 01:19:17,958
see each other. There's not, you know,

550
01:19:18,458 --> 01:19:20,500
yeah, that's a lot. So it was kind of one

551
01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:21,666
of these things that was like, if this is

552
01:19:21,666 --> 01:19:23,291
really your goal, this is really what you

553
01:19:23,291 --> 01:19:25,083
want, then you're gonna have to give up

554
01:19:25,083 --> 01:19:27,041
being home. And it was kind of this

555
01:19:27,041 --> 01:19:28,041
conversation that I was like, you're

556
01:19:28,041 --> 01:19:29,500
right. And so we did, we left.

557
01:19:29,708 --> 01:19:31,208
And then unfortunately, there was a

558
01:19:31,208 --> 01:19:33,375
pandemic. So that also was, no, that

559
01:19:33,375 --> 01:19:36,958
didn't help. But I got to like, spend

560
01:19:36,958 --> 01:19:38,583
time with my grandma, we were we took

561
01:19:38,583 --> 01:19:40,000
care of my grandma for two years. And so

562
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:41,583
I always really value that time as well.

563
01:19:41,833 --> 01:19:44,750
There's, there's times for you to be an

564
01:19:44,750 --> 01:19:46,250
active scientist, and there's times for

565
01:19:46,250 --> 01:19:48,625
you to be an active community member and

566
01:19:48,625 --> 01:19:50,250
an active member of like your family and

567
01:19:50,250 --> 01:19:51,458
those sorts of things. And that was my

568
01:19:51,458 --> 01:19:53,208
time was to be an active member of my

569
01:19:53,208 --> 01:19:55,583
family and to give my grandma her last

570
01:19:55,583 --> 01:19:57,375
two years at the home that she wanted to

571
01:19:57,375 --> 01:19:59,416
be in. So that's what I did. I,

572
01:19:59,750 --> 01:20:03,333
I was in the pandemic, and I had already

573
01:20:03,333 --> 01:20:04,916
started to talk, but I really had started

574
01:20:04,916 --> 01:20:07,500
to talk because people had told me that

575
01:20:07,500 --> 01:20:09,125
that was like where the lesbians were

576
01:20:09,125 --> 01:20:10,125
there were like, that's where the

577
01:20:10,125 --> 01:20:12,208
lesbians are going. And I was like, if

578
01:20:12,208 --> 01:20:13,750
you tell me the lesbians are there, I'm

579
01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:18,833
going. So yeah, you're telling me that my

580
01:20:18,833 --> 01:20:21,250
people are there, I'm going. So that's

581
01:20:21,250 --> 01:20:23,500
kind of what I started as was just like,

582
01:20:23,500 --> 01:20:25,500
lesbian thirst traps and like trying to

583
01:20:25,500 --> 01:20:27,750
make community with my people. And it was

584
01:20:27,750 --> 01:20:28,833
during the pandemic.

585
01:20:28,833 --> 01:20:29,708
And I remember this very

586
01:20:29,750 --> 01:20:32,333
specific video that I was like, well,

587
01:20:32,333 --> 01:20:34,541
since we're all stuck inside, let me

588
01:20:34,541 --> 01:20:36,083
teach you something, let me teach you

589
01:20:36,083 --> 01:20:38,083
about some coral. And I made this little

590
01:20:38,083 --> 01:20:39,791
video about coral and what coral

591
01:20:39,791 --> 01:20:41,708
bleaching is and what white coral could

592
01:20:41,708 --> 01:20:43,541
be that it's not necessarily dead. It was

593
01:20:43,541 --> 01:20:45,458
like, and people were so interested in

594
01:20:45,458 --> 01:20:46,583
it. They were like, I didn't know I need

595
01:20:46,583 --> 01:20:48,041
this information. And I was like, Oh,

596
01:20:48,041 --> 01:20:50,666
wait a second. All that work that I have

597
01:20:50,666 --> 01:20:53,791
done in person as a naturalist, which,

598
01:20:53,791 --> 01:20:56,166
you know, was very interesting because I

599
01:20:56,166 --> 01:20:57,791
grew up with the ocean. I grew up waking

600
01:20:57,791 --> 01:20:59,708
up and seeing the ocean. And you know,

601
01:20:59,750 --> 01:21:00,875
you don't understand that when you're

602
01:21:00,875 --> 01:21:03,041
younger, you don't understand how special

603
01:21:03,041 --> 01:21:04,375
that is. You just think that's not

604
01:21:04,375 --> 01:21:12,250
somebody's at the door. I think so. Love

605
01:21:12,250 --> 01:21:17,000
dogs in this podcast. Delivery probably.

606
01:21:17,875 --> 01:21:20,083
But yeah, you know, I didn't understand

607
01:21:20,083 --> 01:21:22,041
how special that was. And then working as

608
01:21:22,041 --> 01:21:23,791
a naturalist kind of showed me that it

609
01:21:23,791 --> 01:21:26,208
showed me how people don't grow up with

610
01:21:26,208 --> 01:21:27,500
you. Sometimes people were coming on that

611
01:21:27,500 --> 01:21:28,708
boat, having seen the

612
01:21:28,708 --> 01:21:29,583
ocean. This was their first

613
01:21:29,708 --> 01:21:31,791
time on the ocean, seeing things,

614
01:21:31,791 --> 01:21:33,416
learning about fish, learning about

615
01:21:33,416 --> 01:21:36,166
whales. And it was those moments that I

616
01:21:36,166 --> 01:21:37,791
was like, Oh, I can connect people with

617
01:21:37,791 --> 01:21:39,666
the ocean. I can help people develop this

618
01:21:39,666 --> 01:21:41,833
relationship that will then foster into

619
01:21:41,833 --> 01:21:43,500
them caring, which will then foster them

620
01:21:43,500 --> 01:21:46,083
into them making taking actions. And it

621
01:21:46,083 --> 01:21:47,916
was that video where I where I made,

622
01:21:47,916 --> 01:21:49,333
talked about coral. People were so

623
01:21:49,333 --> 01:21:50,375
interested that I was like, Oh, wait a

624
01:21:50,375 --> 01:21:52,333
second. I can do this online. I can take

625
01:21:52,333 --> 01:21:53,541
all those things that I was doing in

626
01:21:53,541 --> 01:21:55,833
person and bring that online. So I just

627
01:21:55,833 --> 01:21:57,791
started creating these videos about the

628
01:21:57,791 --> 01:21:59,208
knowledge that I had and about

629
01:21:59,708 --> 01:22:01,208
marine science and about being in marine

630
01:22:01,208 --> 01:22:03,833
science. And it just became this really

631
01:22:03,833 --> 01:22:06,291
wonderful career in marine science

632
01:22:06,291 --> 01:22:08,875
communication. Well, it's just amazing.

633
01:22:09,125 --> 01:22:10,583
There's a few things that you said there,

634
01:22:10,583 --> 01:22:11,958
like, we'll get into the science

635
01:22:11,958 --> 01:22:13,666
communication set, because this is where

636
01:22:13,666 --> 01:22:15,666
I really want to I want to I'll live with

637
01:22:15,666 --> 01:22:17,416
you on this because it's so important.

638
01:22:18,041 --> 01:22:20,250
You made that you made some pretty big

639
01:22:20,250 --> 01:22:22,625
decisions, like after you graduated.

640
01:22:22,875 --> 01:22:25,833
Yeah. And it's insane to think about how

641
01:22:25,833 --> 01:22:28,375
many scientists, marine scientists, when

642
01:22:28,375 --> 01:22:29,416
we come marine scientists,

643
01:22:29,708 --> 01:22:32,000
we dream of like either working in

644
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:33,666
Australia or working in a place like

645
01:22:33,666 --> 01:22:36,125
Hawaii. Right. And then here it is. It's

646
01:22:36,125 --> 01:22:38,208
too expensive for marine biologists, like

647
01:22:38,208 --> 01:22:40,416
homegrown marine biologists to live there

648
01:22:40,416 --> 01:22:42,583
to do the work that they would love in an

649
01:22:42,583 --> 01:22:44,708
island that they know. And then they have

650
01:22:44,708 --> 01:22:46,208
to go somewhere else to do it. I just

651
01:22:46,208 --> 01:22:48,041
feel like that's very weird. It should

652
01:22:48,041 --> 01:22:49,958
not happen in a way. You know what I

653
01:22:49,958 --> 01:22:51,708
mean? Like, it should be a place where

654
01:22:51,708 --> 01:22:53,583
you can go and enjoy, especially because

655
01:22:53,583 --> 01:22:55,125
and I know just from you, like,

656
01:22:55,125 --> 01:22:56,333
especially from your videos, like, you

657
01:22:56,333 --> 01:22:58,166
know, the culture, you know, like, you

658
01:22:58,166 --> 01:22:59,708
know, the significance of everything.

659
01:22:59,708 --> 01:23:01,041
And I think that's important for

660
01:23:01,041 --> 01:23:03,208
scientists to be able to do that. So I'm

661
01:23:03,208 --> 01:23:05,125
sorry you had to make that decision to go

662
01:23:05,125 --> 01:23:08,625
to do that. But even moving to the like,

663
01:23:08,625 --> 01:23:10,375
like, even the decision to move, like, as

664
01:23:10,375 --> 01:23:12,708
like the other thing, actually, is to be

665
01:23:12,708 --> 01:23:15,541
a naturalist on a boat and like to dive

666
01:23:15,541 --> 01:23:18,708
into that. Do you regret the decision of

667
01:23:18,708 --> 01:23:19,750
of getting that job

668
01:23:19,750 --> 01:23:20,708
and working in that job?

669
01:23:20,750 --> 01:23:22,166
Because it seems like it's really paying

670
01:23:22,166 --> 01:23:24,833
off right now in terms of just being able

671
01:23:24,833 --> 01:23:27,250
to do what you want to do, you know, on

672
01:23:27,250 --> 01:23:29,208
on on TikTok and on Instagram and on

673
01:23:29,208 --> 01:23:29,958
science communication.

674
01:23:30,208 --> 01:23:31,083
Like, do you regret that?

675
01:23:31,791 --> 01:23:34,250
No, I think there's like, I've always

676
01:23:34,250 --> 01:23:35,583
learned and like the lessons I've learned

677
01:23:35,583 --> 01:23:37,125
is that there's always something that you

678
01:23:37,125 --> 01:23:39,541
don't know about. Like, right now, I'm

679
01:23:39,541 --> 01:23:42,125
waiting to hear about a graduate program,

680
01:23:42,125 --> 01:23:43,708
right? And you're kind of like, you're on

681
01:23:43,708 --> 01:23:44,666
the edge of your seat, constantly

682
01:23:44,666 --> 01:23:46,500
checking your email, like, oh, am I going

683
01:23:46,500 --> 01:23:46,875
to have the email

684
01:23:46,875 --> 01:23:47,708
today? Is it coming in today?

685
01:23:47,708 --> 01:23:49,458
And I know it's coming in any day now.

686
01:23:49,791 --> 01:23:52,458
Right? It's happening soon. And, you

687
01:23:52,458 --> 01:23:54,541
know, I try and remind myself that no

688
01:23:54,541 --> 01:23:57,041
matter what happens with it, that door

689
01:23:57,041 --> 01:23:59,500
doesn't open. There's another door that

690
01:23:59,500 --> 01:24:01,583
I'm not that I don't see right now.

691
01:24:01,583 --> 01:24:02,750
There's a window, there's a door, there's

692
01:24:02,750 --> 01:24:04,208
something else that I am not noticing.

693
01:24:04,208 --> 01:24:06,291
And that's kind of how I feel about the

694
01:24:06,291 --> 01:24:08,541
marine naturalist thing is that I took it

695
01:24:08,541 --> 01:24:11,208
as originally like this is, I know enough

696
01:24:11,208 --> 01:24:12,916
that I can teach people and it's

697
01:24:12,916 --> 01:24:13,416
something that will

698
01:24:13,416 --> 01:24:14,708
give me some money. Cool.

699
01:24:14,875 --> 01:24:17,750
Yeah. And I didn't realize where it would

700
01:24:17,750 --> 01:24:20,250
take me. And so at the time, yeah, for

701
01:24:20,250 --> 01:24:21,916
sure. At the time, I was like, I am Yeah,

702
01:24:21,916 --> 01:24:23,583
it was a hard decision. I was so tired. I

703
01:24:23,583 --> 01:24:25,500
was so overworked. And so of course, at

704
01:24:25,500 --> 01:24:27,375
the time, it was like, man, was this the

705
01:24:27,375 --> 01:24:28,625
right choice? I feel a little bit

706
01:24:28,625 --> 01:24:30,916
overwhelmed and overworked. But now, in

707
01:24:30,916 --> 01:24:32,125
retrospect, of course, I'm like, wow,

708
01:24:32,125 --> 01:24:34,875
that gave me so many tools that I didn't

709
01:24:34,875 --> 01:24:37,166
realize I needed for a career that I

710
01:24:37,166 --> 01:24:40,291
really loved. I had always wanted to do

711
01:24:40,291 --> 01:24:41,583
science communication. I didn't even know

712
01:24:41,583 --> 01:24:43,208
what that really was, though, right?

713
01:24:43,208 --> 01:24:43,708
Like, I always just wanted to do science communication.

714
01:24:43,708 --> 01:24:45,583
I always just wanted to teach, I always

715
01:24:45,583 --> 01:24:47,750
just wanted to help people connect to the

716
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:50,125
ocean, I'd always wanted to be a part of

717
01:24:50,125 --> 01:24:51,750
that. But I didn't know it was called

718
01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:53,416
science communication. I didn't know that

719
01:24:53,416 --> 01:24:56,166
there was an actual career or job in it.

720
01:24:56,166 --> 01:24:57,458
Like there was, like, none of that was

721
01:24:57,458 --> 01:24:59,833
information that I understood until it

722
01:24:59,833 --> 01:25:01,083
was kind of happening. And I was like,

723
01:25:01,083 --> 01:25:04,416
Oh, okay, this is this is all the blocks

724
01:25:04,416 --> 01:25:07,083
are coming, they're building something. I

725
01:25:07,083 --> 01:25:08,375
just wasn't able to see what the

726
01:25:08,375 --> 01:25:10,375
structure was until I took a step back.

727
01:25:10,875 --> 01:25:13,250
So no, you know, yes, it was a hard

728
01:25:13,250 --> 01:25:16,750
decision. And, you know, there's always a

729
01:25:16,750 --> 01:25:18,375
part of you that's one that likes to if

730
01:25:18,375 --> 01:25:20,541
and but about things, right? What what

731
01:25:20,541 --> 01:25:22,833
could have been what could have been what

732
01:25:22,833 --> 01:25:24,791
would have been. But now I

733
01:25:24,791 --> 01:25:26,958
think I, I'm very thankful.

734
01:25:27,750 --> 01:25:29,375
You know, I actually was just talking to

735
01:25:29,375 --> 01:25:30,916
quite a few other science friends about

736
01:25:30,916 --> 01:25:33,541
this, particularly women in science, we

737
01:25:33,541 --> 01:25:36,833
kind of, you know, it's hard to be on in

738
01:25:36,833 --> 01:25:38,958
science. I think everybody can see that,

739
01:25:38,958 --> 01:25:41,458
you know, we're, we're, we're tend to be

740
01:25:41,458 --> 01:25:44,208
overlooked quite a bit. And one of the

741
01:25:44,208 --> 01:25:45,875
things that I was talking to quite a few

742
01:25:45,875 --> 01:25:48,875
of my like friends about is that, you

743
01:25:48,875 --> 01:25:51,666
know, we get these opportunities for

744
01:25:51,666 --> 01:25:53,333
research. And sometimes you just want to

745
01:25:53,333 --> 01:25:54,958
take them because you're like, well, I

746
01:25:54,958 --> 01:25:55,875
got an opportunity, I want

747
01:25:55,875 --> 01:25:56,708
to take it like, that's cool.

748
01:25:56,708 --> 01:25:59,208
I'm a woman in science that got an

749
01:25:59,208 --> 01:26:00,625
opportunity given to you, I want to take

750
01:26:00,625 --> 01:26:02,625
it. But then you have to think about is

751
01:26:02,625 --> 01:26:04,583
this actually research that I want to be

752
01:26:04,583 --> 01:26:06,375
doing? Is this actually what I want to be

753
01:26:06,375 --> 01:26:07,958
specialized? Is this going to help me in

754
01:26:07,958 --> 01:26:09,833
the long run? And so those things are

755
01:26:09,833 --> 01:26:11,541
kind of what I, you know, try and reflect

756
01:26:11,541 --> 01:26:14,166
on. And the research that I was involved

757
01:26:14,166 --> 01:26:15,375
in was really interesting and really

758
01:26:15,375 --> 01:26:18,166
cool. But it's not, I don't think what I

759
01:26:18,166 --> 01:26:19,833
would have wanted to be doing in the long

760
01:26:19,833 --> 01:26:22,458
term. So would that have benefited me in

761
01:26:22,458 --> 01:26:23,583
the long term is kind of one of those

762
01:26:23,583 --> 01:26:25,708
things that I try and remind myself. And, you know, I think that's a really cool thing.

763
01:26:25,708 --> 01:26:27,916
And, you know, I think a lot of times we

764
01:26:27,916 --> 01:26:29,750
kind of like pigeonhole ourselves into

765
01:26:29,750 --> 01:26:31,250
like, you know, this is the opportunity

766
01:26:31,250 --> 01:26:32,750
that I got. And so now I'm just doing

767
01:26:32,750 --> 01:26:36,083
exactly this. But now I, you know, have

768
01:26:36,083 --> 01:26:38,958
had such a passion now for sustainable

769
01:26:38,958 --> 01:26:40,583
seafood and for fisheries and aquaculture

770
01:26:40,583 --> 01:26:42,375
and all of these things that I wouldn't

771
01:26:42,375 --> 01:26:43,916
have been able to be involved in it had I

772
01:26:43,916 --> 01:26:45,333
gone down that path, or it would have

773
01:26:45,333 --> 01:26:46,958
been a hard pivot from that path.

774
01:26:47,750 --> 01:26:50,125
So I think that gets that I think there's

775
01:26:50,125 --> 01:26:52,458
always something on the horizon that you

776
01:26:52,458 --> 01:26:54,083
just can't see and that you got it, you

777
01:26:54,083 --> 01:26:55,666
got to trust in the universe a little bit

778
01:26:55,666 --> 01:26:57,583
sometimes, which doesn't feel good, but

779
01:26:57,583 --> 01:26:58,916
you got to try and do it.

780
01:26:59,166 --> 01:27:01,083
For sure. I just recently did an episode

781
01:27:01,083 --> 01:27:03,416
on conservation careers. And I mentioned

782
01:27:03,416 --> 01:27:05,125
that like, sometimes those decisions are

783
01:27:05,125 --> 01:27:06,208
really hard at the time, because you have

784
01:27:06,208 --> 01:27:08,416
no idea where it's going to take you. But

785
01:27:08,416 --> 01:27:09,333
then there's no really

786
01:27:09,333 --> 01:27:10,291
right or wrong decision.

787
01:27:10,916 --> 01:27:11,916
You know, as long as you're not hurting

788
01:27:11,916 --> 01:27:13,666
anybody, there's no real right or wrong

789
01:27:13,666 --> 01:27:14,958
decision, whatever the decision is,

790
01:27:14,958 --> 01:27:16,916
that's your path. It was meant to be and

791
01:27:16,916 --> 01:27:18,083
then you just go ahead and do it and you

792
01:27:18,083 --> 01:27:18,916
make the best of it.

793
01:27:19,333 --> 01:27:21,291
Sometimes, oftentimes, it ended up any

794
01:27:21,291 --> 01:27:24,083
benefiting you in the end, you know, you

795
01:27:24,083 --> 01:27:25,958
do science communication, I assume we'll

796
01:27:25,958 --> 01:27:28,083
talk about in a second. You've got some

797
01:27:28,083 --> 01:27:29,958
opportunities, you know, available to you

798
01:27:29,958 --> 01:27:32,125
that you probably wouldn't have had if

799
01:27:32,125 --> 01:27:33,333
you didn't start the science

800
01:27:33,333 --> 01:27:33,708
communication, right.

801
01:27:33,750 --> 01:27:36,416
And I've had the same opportunity, like

802
01:27:36,416 --> 01:27:37,666
I've had similar opportunities or

803
01:27:37,666 --> 01:27:38,750
similar, you know, different

804
01:27:38,750 --> 01:27:40,375
opportunities with with podcasting that

805
01:27:40,375 --> 01:27:42,000
have come to me where like, I would never

806
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:42,541
would have predicted

807
01:27:42,541 --> 01:27:44,041
this if it hadn't happened.

808
01:27:44,250 --> 01:27:46,083
And I think it kind of opens up our mind

809
01:27:46,083 --> 01:27:47,583
a little bit forces us a little bit to do

810
01:27:47,583 --> 01:27:49,125
it, but opens up our mind. So I really

811
01:27:49,125 --> 01:27:50,500
like that. The other thing that you

812
01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:52,291
mentioned earlier, which I think is

813
01:27:52,291 --> 01:27:54,541
really important to is obviously your

814
01:27:54,541 --> 01:27:56,291
partner plays a big role in your life,

815
01:27:56,291 --> 01:27:57,375
you know, life partner.

816
01:27:58,166 --> 01:28:00,000
She's there to do, you know, you guys are

817
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:01,541
living it together, you know, there's

818
01:28:01,541 --> 01:28:05,500
compromise to happen. She moved with you

819
01:28:05,500 --> 01:28:07,375
to the Big Island. And she

820
01:28:07,375 --> 01:28:09,541
moved with you again, after that.

821
01:28:11,166 --> 01:28:12,750
Obviously, that's amazing thing to do,

822
01:28:12,750 --> 01:28:14,416
right? You know, to go, Hey, if you want

823
01:28:14,416 --> 01:28:16,166
to do this, we got to move away, let's

824
01:28:16,166 --> 01:28:17,250
let's go ahead and do this.

825
01:28:19,458 --> 01:28:20,875
Like, how is it like, how important is

826
01:28:20,875 --> 01:28:23,250
that to you to have that support there to

827
01:28:23,250 --> 01:28:24,500
do that? And wasn't it difficult decision

828
01:28:24,500 --> 01:28:26,416
for her to say, Yeah, let's go to these

829
01:28:26,416 --> 01:28:29,291
places. It can't be an easy thing, right?

830
01:28:29,958 --> 01:28:33,541
Um, I will say first off, it was not a

831
01:28:33,541 --> 01:28:35,750
difficult decision for her. She is so

832
01:28:35,750 --> 01:28:38,083
much of the let's explore the world. I

833
01:28:38,083 --> 01:28:39,916
want to get out there. I want to do

834
01:28:39,916 --> 01:28:43,583
things. So I don't feel bad about that

835
01:28:43,583 --> 01:28:45,500
whatsoever. Because I think I'm the one

836
01:28:45,500 --> 01:28:47,458
who struggled with it more. I'm like, I

837
01:28:47,458 --> 01:28:49,541
want to be home. And she's like, she's

838
01:28:49,541 --> 01:28:51,291
like, those don't know the things that

839
01:28:51,291 --> 01:28:52,666
you want. And the goals that you have in

840
01:28:52,666 --> 01:28:54,666
mind are not aligning right now. Like,

841
01:28:54,666 --> 01:28:56,458
you need to figure it out. And I'm like,

842
01:28:56,458 --> 01:28:58,333
Oh, yeah, you're right. You

843
01:28:58,333 --> 01:28:58,708
might have a good point there.

844
01:28:59,708 --> 01:29:01,958
So yeah, she's the one that likes to

845
01:29:01,958 --> 01:29:03,750
explore and to get out there and be big.

846
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:07,208
So no, that that wasn't necessarily the

847
01:29:07,208 --> 01:29:08,958
issue. But I do think having a strong

848
01:29:08,958 --> 01:29:11,000
support system is so essential.

849
01:29:11,708 --> 01:29:13,708
Particularly if you're doing like digital

850
01:29:13,708 --> 01:29:15,083
science communication, I think we touched

851
01:29:15,083 --> 01:29:17,250
on this before we started recording of

852
01:29:17,250 --> 01:29:20,250
people can be the online community can be

853
01:29:20,250 --> 01:29:20,708
a lot, it can be really tough.

854
01:29:21,708 --> 01:29:24,833
You know, it's your the words that you

855
01:29:24,833 --> 01:29:27,375
say can get misconstrued so so easily

856
01:29:27,375 --> 01:29:29,916
people can take things out of context,

857
01:29:29,916 --> 01:29:31,666
take a single singular sentence from a

858
01:29:31,666 --> 01:29:34,000
whole video out of context, and it can

859
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,708
snowball into something else. And so

860
01:29:36,708 --> 01:29:38,625
having a really strong support system is

861
01:29:38,625 --> 01:29:40,166
necessary. This is one of the things that

862
01:29:40,166 --> 01:29:41,958
I get asked all the time at conferences,

863
01:29:41,958 --> 01:29:43,125
people are like, how do you do

864
01:29:43,125 --> 01:29:45,291
everything? How do you go to school and

865
01:29:45,291 --> 01:29:46,541
do research and do science communication

866
01:29:46,541 --> 01:29:48,583
and like keep your head up of water? And

867
01:29:48,583 --> 01:29:49,708
I'm like, I have a really, really strong support system.

868
01:29:50,708 --> 01:29:52,958
Not just my partner, but also like, I

869
01:29:52,958 --> 01:29:54,916
have some really incredible best friends

870
01:29:54,916 --> 01:29:57,333
that are always there. And you know who I

871
01:29:57,333 --> 01:29:59,250
can call for pretty much anything. I am

872
01:29:59,250 --> 01:30:01,583
very, very lucky in that way to have such

873
01:30:01,583 --> 01:30:04,083
an incredible, strong support system. And

874
01:30:04,083 --> 01:30:06,750
I think that is an essential part of

875
01:30:06,750 --> 01:30:09,166
being in like conservation or being in

876
01:30:09,166 --> 01:30:11,541
advocacy, particularly if you're doing it

877
01:30:11,541 --> 01:30:14,041
digitally, because like my partner is not

878
01:30:14,041 --> 01:30:16,000
an online person, she doesn't have social

879
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,166
media. She doesn't do any of that. No,

880
01:30:18,166 --> 01:30:19,416
she's that's not her thing whatsoever.

881
01:30:19,416 --> 01:30:19,708
She is very, very, very good.

882
01:30:20,750 --> 01:30:22,958
She's very private, keeps to herself. And

883
01:30:22,958 --> 01:30:26,000
that is so, so lovely for me, because

884
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:28,625
there's times where I'm like, God, I hate

885
01:30:28,625 --> 01:30:30,416
this. I hate everybody. Like, I'm just so

886
01:30:30,416 --> 01:30:32,000
miserable. I'm so mad. And she's like,

887
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:33,000
put your phone down.

888
01:30:34,125 --> 01:30:35,750
We need to be called out that way.

889
01:30:36,583 --> 01:30:36,791
Yeah.

890
01:30:38,083 --> 01:30:40,000
Put your phone down. Let's go for a walk.

891
01:30:40,333 --> 01:30:41,708
Like, let's go. Yeah, let's go. Let's go

892
01:30:41,708 --> 01:30:42,666
feel some sunshine on your

893
01:30:42,666 --> 01:30:43,708
skin. I'm like, oh, yeah.

894
01:30:45,708 --> 01:30:46,041
Right.

895
01:30:46,583 --> 01:30:48,791
A little reminder. I check. Yeah.

896
01:30:49,125 --> 01:30:51,000
And so I think that's very important.

897
01:30:51,583 --> 01:30:52,500
Like, it's not necessarily that you have

898
01:30:52,500 --> 01:30:53,833
to have something that's offline as much

899
01:30:53,833 --> 01:30:55,250
as I do. But I think it's important to

900
01:30:55,250 --> 01:30:56,708
have somebody that reminds you of these

901
01:30:56,708 --> 01:30:58,083
things that reminds you to be like, hey,

902
01:30:58,750 --> 01:31:02,291
you you are going into a place of like

903
01:31:02,291 --> 01:31:03,666
letting the internet rot your brain a

904
01:31:03,666 --> 01:31:05,416
little bit like the internet is getting

905
01:31:05,416 --> 01:31:07,541
inside you, you need to go outside, you

906
01:31:07,541 --> 01:31:09,458
need to go look at the ocean.

907
01:31:09,708 --> 01:31:10,291
Yeah.

908
01:31:10,875 --> 01:31:12,083
Remind yourself why you're doing what

909
01:31:12,083 --> 01:31:13,041
you're doing. And you're like, Oh, yeah,

910
01:31:13,041 --> 01:31:16,000
you're 100% correct. And so I feel very

911
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,958
lucky to have that even the other day, I

912
01:31:17,958 --> 01:31:19,250
was on FaceTime with one of my best

913
01:31:19,250 --> 01:31:23,625
friends. And I somebody on threads, made

914
01:31:23,625 --> 01:31:25,458
one of those comments that just drives me

915
01:31:25,458 --> 01:31:27,125
absolutely bonkers where they were like,

916
01:31:27,125 --> 01:31:28,375
if you're not vegan, you're not an

917
01:31:28,375 --> 01:31:30,416
environmentalist. And I was like, I'm

918
01:31:30,416 --> 01:31:32,583
coming for you. And so I like, you know,

919
01:31:32,583 --> 01:31:33,708
we need to have a discussion.

920
01:31:33,708 --> 01:31:36,500
Yeah. So you know, me and my, my little

921
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:38,666
contacts and everyone's commenting. And,

922
01:31:38,666 --> 01:31:40,625
you know, we were watching our favorite

923
01:31:40,625 --> 01:31:42,041
show together. That's what we were doing

924
01:31:42,041 --> 01:31:43,708
on FaceTime. I brought up threads, and

925
01:31:43,708 --> 01:31:45,166
she could see it on my face that I was

926
01:31:45,166 --> 01:31:46,666
reading. And I was getting granary. And

927
01:31:46,666 --> 01:31:48,916
she was like, put the keyboard warriors

928
01:31:48,916 --> 01:31:52,166
away, like put them away, stop. And I was

929
01:31:52,166 --> 01:31:52,791
like, Oh, yeah, you're

930
01:31:52,791 --> 01:31:54,125
right. You're right. Right. Okay.

931
01:31:54,708 --> 01:31:57,541
It's difficult sometimes. And I get I'm

932
01:31:57,541 --> 01:31:59,333
right there with you. Sometimes I read

933
01:31:59,333 --> 01:32:00,833
comments, even if it's on other people's

934
01:32:00,833 --> 01:32:03,583
posts. And I'm just like, I need I have

935
01:32:03,583 --> 01:32:06,166
the need to say something. I have, but it

936
01:32:06,166 --> 01:32:08,791
gets me charged up. Yeah. And it's, I

937
01:32:08,791 --> 01:32:10,875
coach, I coach my girls hockey team. We

938
01:32:10,875 --> 01:32:12,833
have a rule in his words, like the 24

939
01:32:12,833 --> 01:32:15,666
hour rule, whereas like after a game, no

940
01:32:15,666 --> 01:32:17,625
parent can come up and like, yell at you

941
01:32:17,625 --> 01:32:18,833
or anything like that, they have to give

942
01:32:18,833 --> 01:32:20,916
24 hours to like calm themselves down and

943
01:32:20,916 --> 01:32:22,500
they can talk to you after that. Great

944
01:32:22,500 --> 01:32:23,708
rule should be in all sports. And usually it is.

945
01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:27,250
I feel like it almost should be for for

946
01:32:27,250 --> 01:32:29,458
for social media to like, if I see a

947
01:32:29,458 --> 01:32:31,791
comment, I'm just like, Oh, this is gonna

948
01:32:31,791 --> 01:32:32,958
get me angry. I'm gonna get emotional

949
01:32:32,958 --> 01:32:34,291
about this. Then I was like, just leave

950
01:32:34,291 --> 01:32:36,916
it, put it down. Like, wait, wait 24

951
01:32:36,916 --> 01:32:39,166
hours. And then that comment is still

952
01:32:39,166 --> 01:32:40,750
going to be there. And then you can get

953
01:32:40,750 --> 01:32:42,208
after it that way. Yeah, like it's

954
01:32:42,208 --> 01:32:44,333
difficult, though, sometimes. Oh, it's so

955
01:32:44,333 --> 01:32:47,000
hard not react. Right. Yeah. But when you

956
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:49,041
do like, you've had some some posts of

957
01:32:49,041 --> 01:32:51,166
your own where, you know, I'm sure you

958
01:32:51,166 --> 01:32:52,333
get comments on it, especially when you're talking about the

959
01:32:52,375 --> 01:32:58,041
LGBTQ plus and it's, you know, it's a

960
01:32:58,041 --> 01:33:01,083
hard thing to like you want it, you want

961
01:33:01,083 --> 01:33:03,000
to talk about it because you want to get

962
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:04,541
your opinions out and then people are

963
01:33:04,541 --> 01:33:06,708
commenting some pretty hateful comments

964
01:33:06,708 --> 01:33:09,708
or, you know, some pretty just not nice

965
01:33:09,708 --> 01:33:12,833
comments and you respond to it. But you

966
01:33:12,833 --> 01:33:14,583
always respond to it in such a way you

967
01:33:14,583 --> 01:33:16,208
look like you know, you're calm, you

968
01:33:16,208 --> 01:33:17,916
almost like it feels and maybe you're

969
01:33:17,916 --> 01:33:20,291
not. It's it's what the what it seems to

970
01:33:20,291 --> 01:33:22,333
me when I watch it. But you're like, I'm not going to be able to

971
01:33:22,375 --> 01:33:23,958
almost approaching it like a scientist.

972
01:33:24,416 --> 01:33:25,458
You're like, let's let's just look at the

973
01:33:25,458 --> 01:33:27,625
like, let's be reasonable here. Here's

974
01:33:27,625 --> 01:33:29,458
the situation. Here's what people are

975
01:33:29,458 --> 01:33:31,750
going through. And this is why you're

976
01:33:31,750 --> 01:33:33,291
talking about it. Can you just kind of

977
01:33:33,291 --> 01:33:34,708
talk us through when you do a post like

978
01:33:34,708 --> 01:33:37,875
that and respond? Is it one of those

979
01:33:37,875 --> 01:33:39,791
things where you wait 24 hours and then

980
01:33:39,791 --> 01:33:41,708
you kind of respond or like, how do you

981
01:33:41,708 --> 01:33:43,875
look so calm? I don't know if you are

982
01:33:43,875 --> 01:33:45,583
enough. But how do you look so calm and

983
01:33:45,583 --> 01:33:48,583
respond that way? I would say I'm calm

984
01:33:48,583 --> 01:33:50,375
like 80% of the time. If you actually

985
01:33:50,375 --> 01:33:51,125
look at some of the videos,

986
01:33:51,125 --> 01:33:52,333
there's some of them that I get.

987
01:33:52,375 --> 01:33:53,375
I get a little heated, I get a little

988
01:33:53,375 --> 01:33:55,750
frustrated. Okay. Understandably so.

989
01:33:56,041 --> 01:33:57,541
Yeah, there's there's a few and and funny

990
01:33:57,541 --> 01:33:58,708
enough, it's the ones that I get

991
01:33:58,708 --> 01:34:00,125
frustrated that people like don't listen.

992
01:34:00,125 --> 01:34:02,500
I'm like, Oh, yeah, maybe maybe I should

993
01:34:02,500 --> 01:34:04,916
be a little bit more calm. Because I like

994
01:34:04,916 --> 01:34:06,208
you said, I do get caught up with it

995
01:34:06,208 --> 01:34:08,041
sometimes where I'm just like, I can't I

996
01:34:08,041 --> 01:34:09,875
can't deal with you right now. And then I

997
01:34:09,875 --> 01:34:13,500
go I lose my cool a little bit. But that

998
01:34:13,500 --> 01:34:16,625
is the ones where I have resources and I

999
01:34:16,625 --> 01:34:19,125
have, you know, I am a bit more calm. I

1000
01:34:19,125 --> 01:34:20,500
do come at it from a very scientific

1001
01:34:20,500 --> 01:34:22,083
perspective that people

1002
01:34:22,375 --> 01:34:24,166
understand a little bit better. So I try

1003
01:34:24,166 --> 01:34:26,041
and remember that. It doesn't always

1004
01:34:26,041 --> 01:34:28,708
work. Yeah, I'm not I'm not perfect. I

1005
01:34:28,708 --> 01:34:32,375
have my moments. But you know, I really

1006
01:34:32,375 --> 01:34:35,083
tried to remind myself that like, when

1007
01:34:35,083 --> 01:34:37,458
you come at things with data points, and

1008
01:34:37,458 --> 01:34:40,125
with, you know, genuine perspectives, and

1009
01:34:40,125 --> 01:34:42,166
with, you know, the actual experiences

1010
01:34:42,166 --> 01:34:43,958
that queer people have experienced,

1011
01:34:44,375 --> 01:34:45,416
people who are better at time of

1012
01:34:45,416 --> 01:34:47,041
listening, but also, there's people that

1013
01:34:47,041 --> 01:34:48,666
don't want to listen. There's people that

1014
01:34:48,666 --> 01:34:50,208
don't care, no matter how much data you

1015
01:34:50,208 --> 01:34:52,333
have, no matter how much you articulate

1016
01:34:52,375 --> 01:34:54,166
your point, they don't want to listen.

1017
01:34:55,000 --> 01:34:56,458
And I've definitely experienced that. And

1018
01:34:56,458 --> 01:34:58,000
I think it was last month or the month

1019
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:01,208
before that, I was talking about a couple

1020
01:35:01,208 --> 01:35:03,583
of girls who are in Hawaii who are very

1021
01:35:03,583 --> 01:35:06,500
anti LGBTQ, but are also a marine

1022
01:35:06,500 --> 01:35:08,125
conservationist. And I'm like, this is a

1023
01:35:08,125 --> 01:35:10,250
genuine problem that we experience in the

1024
01:35:10,250 --> 01:35:12,291
marine conservation field is we have a

1025
01:35:12,291 --> 01:35:13,750
lot of anti LGBTQ people,

1026
01:35:13,750 --> 01:35:15,291
which their sentiments, their

1027
01:35:15,333 --> 01:35:17,666
mentalities can leak into policies and

1028
01:35:17,666 --> 01:35:19,666
legislations. And that's a huge issue.

1029
01:35:19,666 --> 01:35:22,166
And I've seen it within, you know, when

1030
01:35:22,166 --> 01:35:24,291
we're at conservation conferences, I've

1031
01:35:24,291 --> 01:35:26,208
seen those things, we've kind of brought

1032
01:35:26,208 --> 01:35:29,000
up those prejudice, the kind of

1033
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:31,875
infiltrate into actual policy building.

1034
01:35:32,500 --> 01:35:33,958
And so it's a problem that we need to be

1035
01:35:33,958 --> 01:35:36,916
addressing. And of course, those two, the

1036
01:35:36,916 --> 01:35:38,750
two that I was mainly talking to didn't

1037
01:35:38,750 --> 01:35:39,708
didn't want to hear it didn't want to

1038
01:35:39,708 --> 01:35:43,000
care didn't have any opinion. But it was

1039
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:44,208
the other people, right?

1040
01:35:44,208 --> 01:35:45,291
All all all the others,

1041
01:35:45,333 --> 01:35:46,833
all the others that were listening were

1042
01:35:46,833 --> 01:35:48,958
like, Oh, I didn't realize how big of an

1043
01:35:48,958 --> 01:35:51,416
issue this was. I didn't realize that so

1044
01:35:51,416 --> 01:35:53,291
many of the people that I support, and

1045
01:35:53,291 --> 01:35:55,833
that I like find, you know, my

1046
01:35:55,833 --> 01:35:57,958
information from have a negative

1047
01:35:57,958 --> 01:36:00,333
perspective of like my community, the

1048
01:36:00,333 --> 01:36:03,125
people that that's who I am. So I think

1049
01:36:03,125 --> 01:36:05,875
it is, I understand how important of a

1050
01:36:05,875 --> 01:36:08,208
topic it is to be discussing. So I try

1051
01:36:08,208 --> 01:36:09,708
and remind myself of that. So I'm like,

1052
01:36:09,958 --> 01:36:12,750
remain calm. Yeah, articulate your point.

1053
01:36:13,166 --> 01:36:14,416
It was a really important conversation.

1054
01:36:15,125 --> 01:36:15,291
And again, I think that's

1055
01:36:15,333 --> 01:36:15,791
what I'm trying to do. And again, I'm not

1056
01:36:15,791 --> 01:36:17,625
perfect. It doesn't always go doesn't

1057
01:36:17,625 --> 01:36:19,541
always work. Like, if you really look at

1058
01:36:19,541 --> 01:36:21,458
those times, there is one video where I

1059
01:36:21,458 --> 01:36:25,291
have lost it. I lost Michael. But you

1060
01:36:25,291 --> 01:36:29,625
know what, where it happens. And I,

1061
01:36:29,916 --> 01:36:32,500
that's, that's just what I do, you have

1062
01:36:32,500 --> 01:36:34,916
to do. And necessarily, like, that's not

1063
01:36:34,916 --> 01:36:35,958
necessarily that's something that

1064
01:36:35,958 --> 01:36:39,125
everyone has to do. But I think with the

1065
01:36:39,125 --> 01:36:41,833
platform that I have, and with developing

1066
01:36:41,833 --> 01:36:43,666
that platform, like I said, I developed

1067
01:36:43,666 --> 01:36:45,291
that platform, that platform got better.

1068
01:36:45,333 --> 01:36:47,833
They built off the lesbians. It was on

1069
01:36:47,833 --> 01:36:49,791
the back. That's how I got there. That's

1070
01:36:49,791 --> 01:36:52,291
how the first 100 K came about. Was the,

1071
01:36:52,291 --> 01:36:55,166
my backbone of my community of my marine

1072
01:36:55,166 --> 01:36:57,875
conservation area, our lesbians, I so

1073
01:36:57,875 --> 01:37:00,833
therefore, my, I need to stand up for my

1074
01:37:00,833 --> 01:37:03,458
community, like the the queer community

1075
01:37:03,458 --> 01:37:05,125
are the people that are there.

1076
01:37:06,291 --> 01:37:08,083
lifting me up, therefore I have to turn

1077
01:37:08,083 --> 01:37:09,083
around and do the same.

1078
01:37:09,083 --> 01:37:10,041
And I feel the responsibility

1079
01:37:10,208 --> 01:37:12,791
to do that. So that's why it's very

1080
01:37:12,791 --> 01:37:14,166
important to me. Like I

1081
01:37:14,166 --> 01:37:15,458
said, I can't always come at

1082
01:37:15,458 --> 01:37:16,000
it with a calm

1083
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:18,250
demeanor, but I try not to.

1084
01:37:18,625 --> 01:37:19,708
Understandably, understandably, too. I

1085
01:37:19,708 --> 01:37:20,291
mean, it's very

1086
01:37:20,291 --> 01:37:23,250
frustrating to watch, you know,

1087
01:37:23,250 --> 01:37:25,291
sometimes even like cis male, you know,

1088
01:37:25,291 --> 01:37:26,916
white guy, middle age, I

1089
01:37:26,916 --> 01:37:28,500
try to do my best to keep

1090
01:37:28,500 --> 01:37:30,375
my mind open and make sure that, you

1091
01:37:30,375 --> 01:37:31,541
know, I do my best to keep

1092
01:37:31,541 --> 01:37:32,875
everybody like keep everybody

1093
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:34,583
around me inclusive and that it provides

1094
01:37:34,583 --> 01:37:35,666
approach like I could be

1095
01:37:35,666 --> 01:37:37,125
approachable, right? And

1096
01:37:37,500 --> 01:37:38,916
but like, it's true. Like when you watch

1097
01:37:38,916 --> 01:37:40,125
some of those things, you're it's

1098
01:37:40,125 --> 01:37:40,875
amazing. But like, I

1099
01:37:40,875 --> 01:37:43,083
learned from these videos as well. Right?

1100
01:37:43,083 --> 01:37:44,083
I learned about some of the

1101
01:37:44,083 --> 01:37:45,083
policies where he's like, I

1102
01:37:45,083 --> 01:37:46,083
never thought I never would have thought

1103
01:37:46,083 --> 01:37:47,375
about that. And it's just out of

1104
01:37:47,375 --> 01:37:48,208
ignorance. It's not out

1105
01:37:48,208 --> 01:37:49,916
of malicious, you know, behaviors, just

1106
01:37:49,916 --> 01:37:51,291
like, Oh, never thought that

1107
01:37:51,291 --> 01:37:52,208
well, that makes sense. And

1108
01:37:52,208 --> 01:37:53,625
then you, you know, you start putting it

1109
01:37:53,625 --> 01:37:54,458
together. If I'm ever in

1110
01:37:54,458 --> 01:37:55,583
a position where I have

1111
01:37:55,583 --> 01:37:56,916
influence on that and same with other

1112
01:37:56,916 --> 01:37:58,333
people. I mean, but you have

1113
01:37:58,333 --> 01:38:01,000
over 350,000 followers on on

1114
01:38:01,041 --> 01:38:02,625
TikTok, which is absolutely phenomenal.

1115
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:04,750
But not everybody is anti

1116
01:38:04,750 --> 01:38:06,041
LGBTQ, as you mentioned,

1117
01:38:06,041 --> 01:38:07,416
a lot of them, you know, a lot of your

1118
01:38:07,416 --> 01:38:08,625
followers are from the

1119
01:38:08,625 --> 01:38:09,708
lesbian community. So it's like,

1120
01:38:09,708 --> 01:38:12,041
hey, like, they got my back and they

1121
01:38:12,041 --> 01:38:13,208
understand. But I think it's also

1122
01:38:13,208 --> 01:38:14,208
important to realize,

1123
01:38:14,208 --> 01:38:16,041
and I do this sometimes too, with in

1124
01:38:16,041 --> 01:38:17,000
different aspects, when

1125
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:18,000
people talk about climate change

1126
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:20,166
conservation, they, they say some things

1127
01:38:20,166 --> 01:38:20,916
that aren't true. It's

1128
01:38:20,916 --> 01:38:22,875
like, I'm not there to refute

1129
01:38:22,875 --> 01:38:24,291
just what you're saying. I'm there to

1130
01:38:24,291 --> 01:38:25,500
educate the other people who

1131
01:38:25,500 --> 01:38:26,875
look at the comments or who

1132
01:38:26,916 --> 01:38:28,875
look at my posts or whatever that might

1133
01:38:28,875 --> 01:38:30,416
be. That's important for science

1134
01:38:30,416 --> 01:38:31,583
communication. I don't think

1135
01:38:32,083 --> 01:38:34,125
we realize that and that could cause

1136
01:38:34,125 --> 01:38:36,166
conflict for us in the future

1137
01:38:36,166 --> 01:38:37,666
by the very people that you're

1138
01:38:37,666 --> 01:38:39,375
responding to, but you're really not

1139
01:38:39,375 --> 01:38:41,041
responding to them. And you're really

1140
01:38:41,041 --> 01:38:42,125
responding more to like,

1141
01:38:42,125 --> 01:38:43,625
Hey, by the way, for those of you who

1142
01:38:43,625 --> 01:38:45,416
really want to know, this is what climate

1143
01:38:45,416 --> 01:38:46,625
change in or is this is what

1144
01:38:46,625 --> 01:38:47,875
some of the policies that are put in

1145
01:38:47,875 --> 01:38:49,333
place that we need to change. And I think

1146
01:38:49,333 --> 01:38:51,041
that's the important part

1147
01:38:51,333 --> 01:38:52,791
from a scientific point of view that I

1148
01:38:52,791 --> 01:38:55,625
get out of it. And I hope I assume, you

1149
01:38:55,625 --> 01:38:56,625
know, you do as well. I think

1150
01:38:56,666 --> 01:38:58,416
that's an important part, right? Yeah,

1151
01:38:58,666 --> 01:39:00,500
absolutely. It's always, it's always

1152
01:39:00,500 --> 01:39:01,458
about the people that

1153
01:39:01,458 --> 01:39:02,250
you don't realize are

1154
01:39:02,250 --> 01:39:07,041
watching. Right. Now, you know, when you

1155
01:39:07,041 --> 01:39:09,500
do your videos, you have you talk a lot

1156
01:39:09,500 --> 01:39:11,375
about a lot of different things,

1157
01:39:11,541 --> 01:39:12,958
right? We talked about the LGBTQ

1158
01:39:12,958 --> 01:39:14,333
community, especially within marine

1159
01:39:14,333 --> 01:39:16,708
science, you, you talk

1160
01:39:16,708 --> 01:39:17,500
about your naturalist

1161
01:39:17,500 --> 01:39:19,500
stuff. I'm looking at a video right now.

1162
01:39:19,500 --> 01:39:21,291
I see starfish. I see like I'm just

1163
01:39:21,291 --> 01:39:24,666
watching the clips right now. But it like

1164
01:39:24,750 --> 01:39:27,250
that's your naturalist coming out that

1165
01:39:27,250 --> 01:39:29,500
experience coming out. And you do

1166
01:39:29,500 --> 01:39:30,458
education on like

1167
01:39:30,458 --> 01:39:31,833
looking at dive tips and like

1168
01:39:31,833 --> 01:39:33,583
when you went back home and like, you

1169
01:39:33,583 --> 01:39:36,083
know, there's a lot of been a lot of

1170
01:39:36,083 --> 01:39:37,250
submarine reports come

1171
01:39:37,250 --> 01:39:38,250
out over the last few

1172
01:39:38,250 --> 01:39:40,208
years, you have that experience with some

1173
01:39:40,208 --> 01:39:42,708
reason. Do you like when you wake up

1174
01:39:42,708 --> 01:39:45,708
every day, do you have an idea of what

1175
01:39:45,708 --> 01:39:48,833
you're going to post or like, do you do

1176
01:39:48,833 --> 01:39:51,208
you plan that out ahead of time to just

1177
01:39:51,208 --> 01:39:53,291
being like, yeah, like, this is what I'm

1178
01:39:53,333 --> 01:39:55,708
going to talk about today. And how is

1179
01:39:55,708 --> 01:39:57,125
that influenced by, you

1180
01:39:57,125 --> 01:39:58,166
know, what you see around you?

1181
01:39:59,083 --> 01:40:01,083
I think I always have a plan and the plan

1182
01:40:01,083 --> 01:40:03,208
tends to always go awry. So I've really

1183
01:40:03,208 --> 01:40:04,083
learned over the past

1184
01:40:04,083 --> 01:40:06,000
four years that like,

1185
01:40:06,375 --> 01:40:08,208
yet, like I have a whole list of things

1186
01:40:08,208 --> 01:40:09,625
that I'm like, here are content pieces

1187
01:40:09,625 --> 01:40:10,500
that I would love to talk

1188
01:40:10,500 --> 01:40:12,041
about. Like I have lists

1189
01:40:12,041 --> 01:40:13,875
of my phone, I have lists of my planner,

1190
01:40:13,875 --> 01:40:15,375
I have lists everywhere of like, here's a

1191
01:40:15,375 --> 01:40:17,000
content idea, which I think is really

1192
01:40:17,041 --> 01:40:18,666
useful on those days that you're like, I

1193
01:40:18,666 --> 01:40:19,708
don't know what to talk about. Like,

1194
01:40:19,708 --> 01:40:20,333
there's nothing that's

1195
01:40:20,333 --> 01:40:21,250
come about. I don't have

1196
01:40:21,291 --> 01:40:22,875
anything. Wait, let me go reference this

1197
01:40:22,875 --> 01:40:24,708
whole list of things of ideas that I have

1198
01:40:24,708 --> 01:40:26,208
that I can make something based off of.

1199
01:40:27,250 --> 01:40:30,000
But a lot of the times, it'll be like, I

1200
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:31,166
want to record this

1201
01:40:31,166 --> 01:40:32,125
today. And then I'll open

1202
01:40:32,125 --> 01:40:34,541
Instagram or open TikTok. And I have 40

1203
01:40:34,541 --> 01:40:36,250
tags. And I'm like, what is going on? And

1204
01:40:36,250 --> 01:40:37,458
it's something that people are like, can

1205
01:40:37,458 --> 01:40:38,708
you talk about this? Can you reference

1206
01:40:38,708 --> 01:40:40,000
this? What is this person referring to?

1207
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:42,833
And I'm like, oh, okay, I got to put that

1208
01:40:42,833 --> 01:40:43,666
what I was going to talk about in the

1209
01:40:43,666 --> 01:40:45,375
back burner for a second, put it back on

1210
01:40:45,375 --> 01:40:49,750
my list, address this. So I tend to see

1211
01:40:49,750 --> 01:40:51,291
that like, sometimes I have plans.

1212
01:40:51,791 --> 01:40:53,125
Sometimes I'm like, this will be this

1213
01:40:53,125 --> 01:40:54,416
day, this will be this day. And sometimes

1214
01:40:54,416 --> 01:40:56,083
that works out. But oftentimes, I find

1215
01:40:56,083 --> 01:40:58,125
that it's what the take what what my

1216
01:40:58,125 --> 01:40:59,875
audience wants to hear what they're

1217
01:40:59,875 --> 01:41:01,875
asking for. Okay, let me address that

1218
01:41:01,875 --> 01:41:04,958
first. So it really depends. And I've

1219
01:41:04,958 --> 01:41:09,083
learned that plan to make content don't

1220
01:41:09,083 --> 01:41:11,083
necessarily always be planning on what

1221
01:41:11,083 --> 01:41:12,166
that content is going to be. I have scripts for things that are going to be

1222
01:41:13,666 --> 01:41:14,500
a lot of things that I haven't recorded

1223
01:41:14,500 --> 01:41:16,208
yet, because I will make the script, I'll

1224
01:41:16,208 --> 01:41:17,583
get on TikTok. And there's something else

1225
01:41:17,583 --> 01:41:19,000
that needs to be addressed, okay? We're

1226
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,625
going to focus on that instead. So you

1227
01:41:21,625 --> 01:41:22,916
know, there's always have those as a

1228
01:41:22,916 --> 01:41:24,750
backup, if you want to, that's always

1229
01:41:24,750 --> 01:41:26,500
nice. Yeah, there's always days that you

1230
01:41:26,500 --> 01:41:28,125
that there's nothing going on in the in

1231
01:41:28,125 --> 01:41:29,458
the ocean world. Like, I mean, that's not

1232
01:41:29,458 --> 01:41:30,708
true. There's always something going on

1233
01:41:30,708 --> 01:41:32,291
in the ocean world, but nothing on

1234
01:41:32,291 --> 01:41:34,625
TikTok, right? Yeah, nothing that the

1235
01:41:34,625 --> 01:41:36,833
TikTok audience have grabbed on to quite

1236
01:41:36,833 --> 01:41:38,916
yet. So those days, oh, I have I have

1237
01:41:38,916 --> 01:41:40,291
things I have lots of stuff that I could

1238
01:41:40,291 --> 01:41:41,416
talk about. I have lots of things that I

1239
01:41:41,416 --> 01:41:42,833
can bring up. I have lots of content that

1240
01:41:42,833 --> 01:41:43,666
I can produce. And I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing. I think that's a really cool thing

1241
01:41:43,708 --> 01:41:44,916
but there's also days that you just got

1242
01:41:44,916 --> 01:41:45,708
to listen to what people

1243
01:41:45,708 --> 01:41:46,833
want to hear and listen to the

1244
01:41:46,833 --> 01:41:48,791
questions that people are asking. And

1245
01:41:48,791 --> 01:41:49,875
that's an important aspect,

1246
01:41:49,875 --> 01:41:50,916
especially to social media,

1247
01:41:50,916 --> 01:41:52,500
it is supposed to be social, right? It's

1248
01:41:52,500 --> 01:41:53,416
supposed to be engaging.

1249
01:41:53,416 --> 01:41:54,958
And if you engage with some of

1250
01:41:54,958 --> 01:41:56,250
your followers, or even if they haven't

1251
01:41:56,250 --> 01:41:56,958
followed you, but they've

1252
01:41:56,958 --> 01:41:58,041
watched your videos before,

1253
01:41:58,041 --> 01:41:59,791
because that can happen on TikTok, you

1254
01:41:59,791 --> 01:42:00,666
know, they're tagging you

1255
01:42:00,666 --> 01:42:01,833
in this like, hey, you know,

1256
01:42:02,041 --> 01:42:04,500
because I'd love to hear about this, you

1257
01:42:04,500 --> 01:42:05,750
know, I want to hear about

1258
01:42:05,750 --> 01:42:06,500
this, like, what are your

1259
01:42:06,500 --> 01:42:07,916
thoughts? And I think that's really

1260
01:42:07,916 --> 01:42:09,583
important to address, like almost right

1261
01:42:09,583 --> 01:42:10,208
off the bat, as soon as

1262
01:42:10,250 --> 01:42:11,708
you see it's just like, Oh, yeah, like,

1263
01:42:12,166 --> 01:42:13,375
this is something that I want to, I want

1264
01:42:13,375 --> 01:42:14,333
to be able to talk about to

1265
01:42:14,416 --> 01:42:16,375
answer it and clear things up. Obviously,

1266
01:42:16,375 --> 01:42:18,375
people want some clarification or a

1267
01:42:18,375 --> 01:42:19,625
response or something

1268
01:42:19,625 --> 01:42:21,583
like that. I, yeah, I think that's a,

1269
01:42:21,583 --> 01:42:24,208
that's a great idea. Now, when you, when

1270
01:42:24,208 --> 01:42:25,041
you're looking at these

1271
01:42:25,041 --> 01:42:28,000
videos, they, how long does it take you

1272
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:29,750
to make a video? I'm just curious,

1273
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:30,708
because they're short form,

1274
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:32,875
but they're really not short form in the

1275
01:42:32,875 --> 01:42:36,125
making. It depends on what the topic is.

1276
01:42:36,125 --> 01:42:37,583
Like, if it's a little bit more fun,

1277
01:42:37,625 --> 01:42:40,458
like the teaching people how to like, a

1278
01:42:40,458 --> 01:42:42,125
couple of dive tips I have for people,

1279
01:42:42,833 --> 01:42:44,583
right? I think took me like 45 minutes,

1280
01:42:44,583 --> 01:42:46,166
because I was also getting like footage,

1281
01:42:46,166 --> 01:42:47,416
right? I was like, Okay, I got a couple

1282
01:42:47,416 --> 01:42:49,250
videos of me, so I can show

1283
01:42:49,250 --> 01:42:50,708
exactly what I'm talking about.

1284
01:42:50,708 --> 01:42:52,000
So I got to grab. So like, thank you both

1285
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:53,583
those things, right? Like, got to dig

1286
01:42:53,583 --> 01:42:55,250
through my videos, find the video that

1287
01:42:55,250 --> 01:42:57,416
I'm referring to, pull that out, get on,

1288
01:42:57,750 --> 01:42:59,083
you know, do all of that.

1289
01:42:59,583 --> 01:43:02,041
Of course, you I like I watch back as I'm

1290
01:43:02,041 --> 01:43:03,000
making my TikTok, because

1291
01:43:03,041 --> 01:43:06,791
for me, like I I've I've cried and using

1292
01:43:06,791 --> 01:43:09,500
my phones until they absolutely die. So I

1293
01:43:09,500 --> 01:43:10,500
still have, I think this is like an

1294
01:43:10,500 --> 01:43:12,833
iPhone 11, which means that sometimes

1295
01:43:12,833 --> 01:43:14,708
there's glitches, right? Sometimes it

1296
01:43:14,708 --> 01:43:16,625
doesn't always grab the audio or

1297
01:43:16,625 --> 01:43:19,000
whatever. So I, I try and watch as I go,

1298
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:20,458
not every single clip, but a couple

1299
01:43:20,458 --> 01:43:22,833
clips, okay, watch did did did all the

1300
01:43:22,833 --> 01:43:24,458
audio work, did it was there any

1301
01:43:24,458 --> 01:43:26,125
glitches? And sometimes that happens,

1302
01:43:26,125 --> 01:43:27,666
right? Sometimes there's a glitch, okay,

1303
01:43:27,666 --> 01:43:29,208
got to record that, re record that piece,

1304
01:43:29,208 --> 01:43:31,541
okay, try. And so I try and give myself

1305
01:43:31,541 --> 01:43:32,875
time. So I think that one

1306
01:43:32,875 --> 01:43:32,958
took me a little
bit longer.

1307
01:43:33,041 --> 01:43:35,375
I mean, about 45 minutes. But then it

1308
01:43:35,375 --> 01:43:37,500
depends, like, if it's a topic about

1309
01:43:37,500 --> 01:43:40,000
something that's like a research piece or

1310
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:42,500
a question that people are asking, I try

1311
01:43:42,500 --> 01:43:45,416
and put a lot of effort into researching

1312
01:43:45,416 --> 01:43:46,708
the question and making sure that like

1313
01:43:46,708 --> 01:43:49,458
what I'm talking about is the most recent

1314
01:43:49,458 --> 01:43:51,250
and updated version.

1315
01:43:51,291 --> 01:43:53,166
And sometimes it's not sometimes, you

1316
01:43:53,166 --> 01:43:55,333
know, that's the thing about science that

1317
01:43:55,333 --> 01:43:58,833
that I'm trying to break with being a

1318
01:43:58,833 --> 01:44:01,666
science communicator is how difficult it

1319
01:44:01,666 --> 01:44:03,625
can be and how exclusionary exclusion,

1320
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,041
exclusionary, exclusionary. Is that the

1321
01:44:06,041 --> 01:44:07,541
right word? You don't have to say. Yeah,

1322
01:44:08,583 --> 01:44:11,291
I can be very, you know, hard to find

1323
01:44:11,291 --> 01:44:13,958
like that. It's behind a paywall. It's,

1324
01:44:14,208 --> 01:44:15,583
you know, here in Canada, we have

1325
01:44:15,583 --> 01:44:18,416
different regulations on on what news you

1326
01:44:18,416 --> 01:44:19,833
can access because they

1327
01:44:19,833 --> 01:44:21,166
were trying to, you know,

1328
01:44:21,291 --> 01:44:24,583
they were trying to mitigate the spread

1329
01:44:24,583 --> 01:44:27,458
of misinformation. But that in order to

1330
01:44:27,458 --> 01:44:28,500
do so, they just got to put a blanket

1331
01:44:28,500 --> 01:44:31,625
over everything, over everything makes it

1332
01:44:31,625 --> 01:44:33,958
a little difficult. So, you know, it's

1333
01:44:33,958 --> 01:44:35,291
sometimes it's even difficult for

1334
01:44:35,291 --> 01:44:36,791
scientists to find the most updated

1335
01:44:36,791 --> 01:44:38,000
information, right? There's something

1336
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:39,375
there's always something coming out,

1337
01:44:39,375 --> 01:44:40,291
there's new public, there's new people

1338
01:44:40,291 --> 01:44:44,250
every single day. So I try and do my best

1339
01:44:44,250 --> 01:44:46,750
to find the most recent information to

1340
01:44:46,750 --> 01:44:49,000
look and see what I'm looking at. So that

1341
01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:49,958
can take time that

1342
01:44:49,958 --> 01:44:51,250
alone can take a few hours.

1343
01:44:51,291 --> 01:44:53,166
To make sure that I am reading the most,

1344
01:44:53,333 --> 01:44:55,500
you know, updated things and and combing

1345
01:44:55,500 --> 01:44:57,208
through papers. That is so difficult

1346
01:44:57,208 --> 01:45:00,250
sometimes. The way that oh, yeah, the way

1347
01:45:00,250 --> 01:45:04,250
scientists write is so convoluted. I like

1348
01:45:04,250 --> 01:45:06,291
I just want to I'm like, we need to make

1349
01:45:06,291 --> 01:45:08,583
abstracts something that like a regular

1350
01:45:08,583 --> 01:45:11,000
person could read. And that would be

1351
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,041
beneficial. Like, I get, like, I get

1352
01:45:13,041 --> 01:45:15,166
that, like, you know, there's two or

1353
01:45:15,166 --> 01:45:17,416
three sentences about the actual what you

1354
01:45:17,416 --> 01:45:19,166
did. That's not gonna make sense to

1355
01:45:19,166 --> 01:45:20,458
people that like don't actually know what

1356
01:45:20,458 --> 01:45:20,916
you're involved with. Sure.

1357
01:45:21,291 --> 01:45:23,000
I'll give you that. Yeah, but like, for

1358
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:24,583
the most part, your abstract should be

1359
01:45:24,583 --> 01:45:27,041
able to be digestible for a general

1360
01:45:27,041 --> 01:45:28,958
audience. You almost need a blog for

1361
01:45:28,958 --> 01:45:31,250
abstracts. Really? Like a blog for

1362
01:45:31,250 --> 01:45:33,833
abstracts. Yeah, truly. And I think,

1363
01:45:33,833 --> 01:45:36,125
yeah, some some grace for your actual

1364
01:45:36,125 --> 01:45:38,125
methods and methodologies, because that's

1365
01:45:38,125 --> 01:45:40,875
that's just how things are. But man,

1366
01:45:40,875 --> 01:45:43,791
sometimes I'm like, do we have to use the

1367
01:45:43,791 --> 01:45:46,458
thesaurus for every single word? Is that

1368
01:45:46,458 --> 01:45:50,541
necessary? And it's just sometimes it

1369
01:45:50,541 --> 01:45:51,125
drives me absolutely

1370
01:45:51,166 --> 01:45:52,500
botherous. Because I'm like, if I'm

1371
01:45:52,500 --> 01:45:55,250
struggling with this, yeah, like, nearly

1372
01:45:55,250 --> 01:45:57,500
10 years of science experience experience

1373
01:45:57,500 --> 01:45:59,791
experience of I'm struggling. Yeah,

1374
01:45:59,916 --> 01:46:01,750
imagine a regular person trying to

1375
01:46:01,750 --> 01:46:03,291
research this and trying to figure out

1376
01:46:03,291 --> 01:46:05,083
the answer. They're not going to get

1377
01:46:05,083 --> 01:46:06,416
there. They're also going to have to pay

1378
01:46:06,416 --> 01:46:09,583
like $7000 because it's every every paper

1379
01:46:09,583 --> 01:46:11,541
is behind a paywall. Like, let me know if

1380
01:46:11,541 --> 01:46:13,333
I work for a university right now. So I

1381
01:46:13,333 --> 01:46:15,541
get access to a certain amount of papers,

1382
01:46:15,541 --> 01:46:17,125
even then there's still someone that are

1383
01:46:17,125 --> 01:46:18,041
behind paywalls from

1384
01:46:18,083 --> 01:46:19,125
and let's just be honest, like these

1385
01:46:19,125 --> 01:46:21,250
these yeah, these subscriptions for the

1386
01:46:21,250 --> 01:46:22,583
universe at the universities pay are

1387
01:46:22,583 --> 01:46:24,791
like, in the tens of thousands of dollars

1388
01:46:24,791 --> 01:46:27,208
per per, you know, publisher, it's

1389
01:46:27,208 --> 01:46:29,875
ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's it's

1390
01:46:29,875 --> 01:46:31,708
it's insane. And I think that's what

1391
01:46:31,708 --> 01:46:33,541
takes me the most time is really combing

1392
01:46:33,541 --> 01:46:36,791
through all of that science. So, and then

1393
01:46:36,791 --> 01:46:39,041
obviously, like writing my script, kind

1394
01:46:39,041 --> 01:46:41,541
of going over it, because that that's the

1395
01:46:41,541 --> 01:46:43,416
one of the hardest parts about science

1396
01:46:43,416 --> 01:46:45,375
communication is trying to

1397
01:46:45,375 --> 01:46:47,958
double check your own biases of

1398
01:46:48,166 --> 01:46:50,250
what words and what things make like I

1399
01:46:50,250 --> 01:46:52,541
know that like my general audience is not

1400
01:46:52,541 --> 01:46:54,083
going to know because sometimes I'll use

1401
01:46:54,083 --> 01:46:57,666
terminologies that I am just so used to.

1402
01:46:57,666 --> 01:46:59,333
Yeah, I'm like, Oh, everyone's gonna know

1403
01:46:59,333 --> 01:47:01,500
that. And then I then all of a sudden

1404
01:47:01,500 --> 01:47:03,375
people are like, Oh, are you saying

1405
01:47:03,375 --> 01:47:05,750
you're like, Oh, yeah, sorry. I realized

1406
01:47:05,750 --> 01:47:08,041
now that like, like, that's not a that's

1407
01:47:08,041 --> 01:47:10,375
not a common term. That's not a vocab

1408
01:47:10,375 --> 01:47:11,875
word that everyone got to have in high

1409
01:47:11,875 --> 01:47:13,166
school. That is something that I've just

1410
01:47:13,166 --> 01:47:15,000
like been ingrained with so hard that I

1411
01:47:15,000 --> 01:47:16,458
think everybody knows now,

1412
01:47:16,458 --> 01:47:17,333
but that's not. Oh, yeah.

1413
01:47:17,583 --> 01:47:20,500
I always get caught up in the acronyms.

1414
01:47:20,708 --> 01:47:22,500
There are times I've used the acronym so

1415
01:47:22,500 --> 01:47:24,500
much. I don't know what it stands for

1416
01:47:24,500 --> 01:47:26,375
anymore. It's just the app. Sure. I know

1417
01:47:26,375 --> 01:47:27,333
what the acronym is.

1418
01:47:27,333 --> 01:47:28,916
For sure. Every time I say Noah and I

1419
01:47:28,916 --> 01:47:30,291
leave like, what does Noah stand for? I'm

1420
01:47:30,291 --> 01:47:34,291
like, Oh, the well, it's the place with

1421
01:47:34,291 --> 01:47:37,958
the ocean. I know

1422
01:47:37,958 --> 01:47:38,958
they're in there somewhere.

1423
01:47:38,958 --> 01:47:41,375
Yeah, they're somewhere there. Yeah,

1424
01:47:41,916 --> 01:47:43,500
yeah, like I definitely understand. And

1425
01:47:43,500 --> 01:47:46,458
like, for me, Noah is like that acronym

1426
01:47:46,458 --> 01:47:49,208
is so you know what I'm talking about. I

1427
01:47:49,208 --> 01:47:52,250
was saying, yeah, you say that to a

1428
01:47:52,250 --> 01:47:54,000
regular person. They're like, talking

1429
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:55,166
about like, you'll see

1430
01:47:55,166 --> 01:47:57,166
the face go. Yeah. Yeah.

1431
01:47:57,208 --> 01:47:59,000
Yeah, that's one of those words that we

1432
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:00,750
have because of the experience that we

1433
01:48:00,750 --> 01:48:03,166
have. We know it so well. We don't even

1434
01:48:03,166 --> 01:48:05,333
think about it anymore. But most people

1435
01:48:05,333 --> 01:48:07,083
really don't know what that is and don't

1436
01:48:07,083 --> 01:48:09,541
know what they do. So yeah, that's,

1437
01:48:09,541 --> 01:48:10,791
that's probably one of the hardest parts

1438
01:48:10,791 --> 01:48:12,875
is like, yes, coming through the science

1439
01:48:12,875 --> 01:48:14,000
and then I got to build the script a

1440
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:15,250
little bit and then I got to relook at

1441
01:48:15,250 --> 01:48:16,708
the script and be like, okay, what in

1442
01:48:16,708 --> 01:48:20,583
here? Am I missing? What in here? What in

1443
01:48:20,583 --> 01:48:21,791
here is not going to make sense to

1444
01:48:21,791 --> 01:48:24,250
somebody? And what should I elaborate on

1445
01:48:24,250 --> 01:48:25,000
a little bit? And it can

1446
01:48:25,000 --> 01:48:27,000
even just be one little

1447
01:48:27,208 --> 01:48:29,500
sentence, right? Noah, the American

1448
01:48:29,500 --> 01:48:32,541
Oceans and Atmosphere organization. Boom.

1449
01:48:32,750 --> 01:48:34,958
Yeah, that covers it. But sometimes you

1450
01:48:34,958 --> 01:48:37,041
forget to do those things. So I try and I

1451
01:48:37,041 --> 01:48:38,416
try and comb through it all and then

1452
01:48:38,416 --> 01:48:40,625
record. Then of course, you got to you

1453
01:48:40,625 --> 01:48:41,875
got to edit it, you got to do all of

1454
01:48:41,875 --> 01:48:43,916
that. And I like try and use green

1455
01:48:43,916 --> 01:48:45,500
screens and that stuff because I try and

1456
01:48:45,500 --> 01:48:47,125
make it visually appealing to my audience

1457
01:48:47,125 --> 01:48:49,666
as well, which is, you know, where people

1458
01:48:49,666 --> 01:48:51,541
are losing their attention spans. So you

1459
01:48:51,541 --> 01:48:52,416
got to keep the attention.

1460
01:48:52,458 --> 01:48:54,583
Even with short videos, you got to switch

1461
01:48:54,583 --> 01:48:56,625
it up. And so like, you know, getting the

1462
01:48:56,625 --> 01:48:58,166
pictures, editing the pictures to be the

1463
01:48:58,166 --> 01:49:00,375
right size for TikTok, all that takes

1464
01:49:00,375 --> 01:49:02,250
quite a bit of time. It takes a lot more

1465
01:49:02,250 --> 01:49:03,583
time than people realize, I think.

1466
01:49:03,625 --> 01:49:06,208
Yeah, 100%. And I think also with the

1467
01:49:06,208 --> 01:49:08,416
evolution of TikTok in terms of the time

1468
01:49:08,416 --> 01:49:10,375
limits that they offer, you know, first

1469
01:49:10,375 --> 01:49:12,791
used to be what, 30 seconds? Yeah, then

1470
01:49:12,791 --> 01:49:15,416
it became 60 seconds, then three minutes

1471
01:49:15,416 --> 01:49:19,958
now 10 minutes. How hard was it for you

1472
01:49:19,958 --> 01:49:22,708
to get all the information into one

1473
01:49:22,708 --> 01:49:24,208
minute? Did you do a lot of like part

1474
01:49:24,208 --> 01:49:25,458
one, part two, part three,

1475
01:49:25,458 --> 01:49:27,916
like that type of content?

1476
01:49:28,666 --> 01:49:30,416
Absolutely. The minute limit was was

1477
01:49:30,416 --> 01:49:32,458
tough. Like I, I really love the three

1478
01:49:32,458 --> 01:49:33,500
minutes because I think I

1479
01:49:33,500 --> 01:49:35,125
can get a good piece. Yes.

1480
01:49:35,625 --> 01:49:38,000
Even like two minutes with three minutes

1481
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:41,208
gives me the leisure of okay, I can edit

1482
01:49:41,208 --> 01:49:42,875
down a little bit. I can kind of scramble

1483
01:49:42,875 --> 01:49:44,958
around. But when it was a minute strict,

1484
01:49:45,458 --> 01:49:47,166
you could hear me like the last two coats

1485
01:49:47,166 --> 01:49:50,791
being like, and this is trying to like,

1486
01:49:50,791 --> 01:49:52,000
shout for sentences

1487
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:53,333
into the last 10 seconds.

1488
01:49:53,541 --> 01:49:57,000
Because you're out of time and there's

1489
01:49:57,000 --> 01:49:59,375
no, and there's no leeway. There's no,

1490
01:49:59,375 --> 01:50:00,750
you know, there's no, there's nothing

1491
01:50:00,750 --> 01:50:02,625
you're, you're cut off at 60 seconds. But

1492
01:50:02,625 --> 01:50:04,083
now I appreciate that those are a little

1493
01:50:04,083 --> 01:50:06,041
bit more like I usually just go straight

1494
01:50:06,041 --> 01:50:06,708
to the 10 minute feature.

1495
01:50:07,541 --> 01:50:09,791
And I rarely, rarely go over three

1496
01:50:09,791 --> 01:50:12,500
minutes. I write, you know, but having

1497
01:50:12,500 --> 01:50:15,125
that 10 minutes of time lets me play

1498
01:50:15,125 --> 01:50:16,750
around a little bit, right? Let's me.

1499
01:50:17,083 --> 01:50:18,583
Okay, what can I edit down? What can I

1500
01:50:18,583 --> 01:50:19,583
take out? What can

1501
01:50:19,583 --> 01:50:20,541
what can you move around?

1502
01:50:20,583 --> 01:50:22,583
And it also gives you the ability to kind

1503
01:50:22,583 --> 01:50:24,875
of like stop to right like because you

1504
01:50:24,875 --> 01:50:26,625
can clip off those little pieces you can,

1505
01:50:26,916 --> 01:50:28,333
yes, take a breath, take your sentence.

1506
01:50:28,958 --> 01:50:31,000
Okay, click. Whereas before you were

1507
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:32,416
like, click, click, click.

1508
01:50:32,416 --> 01:50:32,916
Yeah, all the time.

1509
01:50:33,250 --> 01:50:36,833
Go. I appreciate that we've kind of moved

1510
01:50:36,833 --> 01:50:38,666
a little bit as far as editing on tick

1511
01:50:38,666 --> 01:50:40,625
tock to have a little bit more space and

1512
01:50:40,625 --> 01:50:44,500
time. So yeah, I and I try and not go

1513
01:50:44,500 --> 01:50:46,916
over because I tend I noticed now like,

1514
01:50:46,916 --> 01:50:47,875
no, a lot of my content

1515
01:50:47,875 --> 01:50:49,375
is very educational, very

1516
01:50:49,541 --> 01:50:53,250
science-based that like if it's too long

1517
01:50:53,250 --> 01:50:56,000
I'm gonna lose people. They can only, you

1518
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:57,666
know, they're on TikTok because they want

1519
01:50:57,666 --> 01:50:59,625
to have fun. They want to scroll a

1520
01:50:59,625 --> 01:51:01,625
little bit. Sure they want to, you know,

1521
01:51:01,625 --> 01:51:02,958
they're like, "Oh yeah, I'll sit for a

1522
01:51:02,958 --> 01:51:04,958
minute and learn." That's nice. I'll

1523
01:51:04,958 --> 01:51:05,833
learn from you today.

1524
01:51:06,500 --> 01:51:07,666
Yeah, but like a quick piece of

1525
01:51:07,666 --> 01:51:09,833
learning something new is kind of, you

1526
01:51:09,833 --> 01:51:12,333
know, what people are going for. So I try

1527
01:51:12,333 --> 01:51:14,708
and find that sweet spot of like how do I

1528
01:51:14,708 --> 01:51:15,916
make sure I'm getting you the right

1529
01:51:15,916 --> 01:51:17,416
information, the correct information,

1530
01:51:17,416 --> 01:51:19,000
information that you can understand and

1531
01:51:19,041 --> 01:51:21,500
utilize, but also in an entertaining way

1532
01:51:21,500 --> 01:51:23,041
that's not going to go over your time

1533
01:51:23,041 --> 01:51:25,416
limit of your brain. So it's a real

1534
01:51:25,416 --> 01:51:26,875
tricky balance that we're constantly

1535
01:51:26,916 --> 01:51:28,583
trying to kind of figure out and work

1536
01:51:28,583 --> 01:51:29,625
with. Yeah,

1537
01:51:29,625 --> 01:51:31,708
absolutely. It is. It's kind of

1538
01:51:31,708 --> 01:51:32,750
funny. You know, like, you know, you're

1539
01:51:32,750 --> 01:51:33,833
not only trying to do that, but you're

1540
01:51:33,833 --> 01:51:35,041
trying to learn the software. Are you

1541
01:51:35,041 --> 01:51:35,916
trying to, do you edit

1542
01:51:35,916 --> 01:51:36,708
all on your phone? Is

1543
01:51:36,708 --> 01:51:37,541
that what you're saying? Like you do it

1544
01:51:37,541 --> 01:51:38,916
all? I edit mostly on

1545
01:51:38,916 --> 01:51:40,000
my phone. I have, I do

1546
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:43,416
have CapCut and stuff on my computer, but

1547
01:51:43,416 --> 01:51:45,583
I just, I find it like I take most of my

1548
01:51:45,625 --> 01:51:47,958
footage on my phone. So I do have like,

1549
01:51:48,416 --> 01:51:51,000
yeah, loading up. You just upload from my

1550
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:52,500
phone and edit from there. So yeah,

1551
01:51:52,500 --> 01:51:54,041
that's kind of what I

1552
01:51:54,041 --> 01:51:55,708
mostly do it from. I have

1553
01:51:55,708 --> 01:51:57,416
played around with it on my laptop, but

1554
01:51:57,416 --> 01:52:00,041
also like I'm a scientist on my laptop.

1555
01:52:00,250 --> 01:52:02,333
I have like our running. There's like, I

1556
01:52:02,333 --> 01:52:05,125
think I have like 10 fucking research

1557
01:52:05,166 --> 01:52:08,000
papers open right now. The second I open

1558
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:09,625
my laptop, all of a sudden I'm like, oh

1559
01:52:09,791 --> 01:52:11,625
yeah, I got to write that paper. Oh yeah.

1560
01:52:12,166 --> 01:52:16,000
Yeah. So I'm like, what about my phone?

1561
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:17,541
Like I, this is, this is my science

1562
01:52:17,583 --> 01:52:19,458
communication world. This is

1563
01:52:19,458 --> 01:52:21,750
my research world, you know, so

1564
01:52:23,583 --> 01:52:26,000
that's hilarious. That's so, so true too.

1565
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:27,458
I have like so many tabs open a lot of

1566
01:52:27,458 --> 01:52:29,125
times when I record all of a sudden,

1567
01:52:29,125 --> 01:52:30,416
like, like computers, like we're just

1568
01:52:30,416 --> 01:52:32,375
chugging here. You need to like close a

1569
01:52:32,375 --> 01:52:33,875
lot of these tabs. I'm like, I only have

1570
01:52:33,875 --> 01:52:35,666
like 400 open. I don't understand why

1571
01:52:35,666 --> 01:52:37,166
it's, you know, why it's taking so long,

1572
01:52:37,291 --> 01:52:40,250
but yeah, no, I completely get, I learned

1573
01:52:40,250 --> 01:52:42,666
editing on my laptop. So like going

1574
01:52:42,666 --> 01:52:45,375
to the phone, I'm just like, this is not

1575
01:52:45,375 --> 01:52:47,250
easy, like doing text and everything like

1576
01:52:47,250 --> 01:52:48,875
that. I'm like, I have to scroll. And of

1577
01:52:48,875 --> 01:52:51,333
course, every font that I like is the

1578
01:52:51,416 --> 01:52:53,791
lowest on the screen. Oh, for sure. And

1579
01:52:53,791 --> 01:52:55,208
you're just like, come on, like, and

1580
01:52:55,208 --> 01:52:56,500
they have to find all the time. Anyway,

1581
01:52:56,791 --> 01:52:59,458
but I appreciate, I respect the, the

1582
01:52:59,625 --> 01:53:01,250
editing on the phone because I have such

1583
01:53:01,250 --> 01:53:04,125
a hard time doing it. It's not easy.

1584
01:53:04,166 --> 01:53:05,750
It's, it's not takes a while to get used

1585
01:53:05,750 --> 01:53:08,166
to, I imagine, but, but you do such a

1586
01:53:08,166 --> 01:53:09,500
great job because you do like, it's not

1587
01:53:09,500 --> 01:53:11,166
just like you're just talking into the,

1588
01:53:11,625 --> 01:53:12,791
into the camera all the time. Like there

1589
01:53:12,791 --> 01:53:14,833
are some words like day in the life of,

1590
01:53:14,833 --> 01:53:16,583
and, you know, all those types of, of

1591
01:53:16,583 --> 01:53:20,500
like vloggy type of content that take a

1592
01:53:20,500 --> 01:53:21,500
while to go through because then you have

1593
01:53:21,500 --> 01:53:22,833
to do the voiceover as you're putting

1594
01:53:22,833 --> 01:53:24,833
them all through and that. So yeah, the

1595
01:53:24,833 --> 01:53:26,916
editing is, is a, is a vibe for sure,

1596
01:53:26,958 --> 01:53:29,833
because it's not as if it's easy to do or

1597
01:53:29,833 --> 01:53:31,250
it takes, it always takes time because

1598
01:53:31,291 --> 01:53:33,750
you have to pay attention to every single

1599
01:53:33,750 --> 01:53:36,500
detail. Absolutely. That's great.

1600
01:53:36,500 --> 01:53:38,375
But this is just, sorry, go ahead. Go

1601
01:53:38,375 --> 01:53:39,000
ahead. No, no, I was

1602
01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:39,833
just saying, I like those

1603
01:53:39,833 --> 01:53:41,083
pieces because I like to remind people

1604
01:53:41,083 --> 01:53:43,125
that I'm a human. I think that a lot of

1605
01:53:43,125 --> 01:53:45,916
the times people get on, uh, see

1606
01:53:45,916 --> 01:53:47,416
scientists online and they're like,

1607
01:53:47,416 --> 01:53:49,875
that's what they are. They're a scientist

1608
01:53:49,875 --> 01:53:52,083
and they just know all they are

1609
01:53:52,125 --> 01:53:55,000
omnipotent scientists. And I'm like, I am

1610
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:58,416
a human. I am just, I

1611
01:53:58,416 --> 01:54:00,458
am just a human. I'm,

1612
01:54:00,458 --> 01:54:03,291
I'm just a girl that likes the ocean and

1613
01:54:03,291 --> 01:54:04,875
studies the ocean. Like I'm going to

1614
01:54:04,875 --> 01:54:06,041
make mistakes. I'm going to say things

1615
01:54:06,041 --> 01:54:07,833
that are incorrect. Sometimes science is

1616
01:54:07,833 --> 01:54:10,291
constantly changing. I am just a human

1617
01:54:10,291 --> 01:54:12,291
that is trying my best. And so I, I like

1618
01:54:12,291 --> 01:54:14,083
making those pieces, even though they can

1619
01:54:14,083 --> 01:54:15,333
be kind of tedious because like you

1620
01:54:15,333 --> 01:54:16,291
said, you got to go through that

1621
01:54:16,291 --> 01:54:18,791
voiceover gradual of those things. But I

1622
01:54:18,791 --> 01:54:20,458
think it reminds you that there's a human

1623
01:54:20,458 --> 01:54:21,666
aspect to it. And that was one of

1624
01:54:21,666 --> 01:54:23,708
the biggest things when I got a

1625
01:54:23,708 --> 01:54:25,250
management team for my science

1626
01:54:25,375 --> 01:54:27,833
communication, I was like, like, I am not

1627
01:54:27,833 --> 01:54:30,541
becoming like the commercial person.

1628
01:54:30,541 --> 01:54:34,208
I am not becoming this like one entity.

1629
01:54:34,208 --> 01:54:35,875
Like that's never who I'm going to be.

1630
01:54:35,916 --> 01:54:38,250
I need the internet to remember that I am

1631
01:54:38,250 --> 01:54:40,750
just a human that like, that like likes

1632
01:54:40,750 --> 01:54:43,416
to create content and likes to share

1633
01:54:43,416 --> 01:54:45,000
about science communication and wants to

1634
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:46,458
connect people to the ocean and wants to

1635
01:54:46,458 --> 01:54:47,750
help people get involved in marine

1636
01:54:47,833 --> 01:54:50,916
conservation. But I am just

1637
01:54:50,916 --> 01:54:53,708
a person. Give me some grace.

1638
01:54:54,333 --> 01:54:56,416
I agree with you there. You know, that's

1639
01:54:56,416 --> 01:54:57,833
one thing that somebody told me when I

1640
01:54:57,833 --> 01:54:59,333
first started, I was asking, you know, I

1641
01:54:59,333 --> 01:55:01,208
was changing up my intro one of the times

1642
01:55:01,208 --> 01:55:02,958
I was doing a podcast and I was asking

1643
01:55:02,958 --> 01:55:04,458
for feedback and I had a good friend of

1644
01:55:04,458 --> 01:55:06,583
mine. She always helps me out in terms of

1645
01:55:06,583 --> 01:55:08,083
like what I should go with and like

1646
01:55:08,083 --> 01:55:10,041
kind of just confirms some of the things

1647
01:55:10,041 --> 01:55:11,250
that I want to do. And she was always

1648
01:55:11,250 --> 01:55:12,916
like, give us a little bit of tidbit of

1649
01:55:12,916 --> 01:55:14,458
like your personality. Like what's going

1650
01:55:14,458 --> 01:55:16,625
on in your life? Like, what do you like?

1651
01:55:16,625 --> 01:55:18,000
Which is it's so funny because I

1652
01:55:18,083 --> 01:55:20,541
interview people to get that personality

1653
01:55:20,541 --> 01:55:22,041
out. Like what they're like, I want

1654
01:55:22,166 --> 01:55:24,916
people to know how cool our scientists

1655
01:55:24,916 --> 01:55:25,916
are. And like they're

1656
01:55:25,916 --> 01:55:27,000
like everybody else,

1657
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:28,958
they're human beings, you know, and they

1658
01:55:28,958 --> 01:55:30,333
love certain things. They don't like

1659
01:55:30,333 --> 01:55:32,500
certain things. And this is who they are.

1660
01:55:32,500 --> 01:55:33,916
And that's that's the fun part of it.

1661
01:55:34,458 --> 01:55:35,791
But I never really thought of it for

1662
01:55:35,791 --> 01:55:36,875
myself until I get

1663
01:55:36,875 --> 01:55:37,916
reminded like, hey, you

1664
01:55:37,916 --> 01:55:39,375
know, it's through a little bit like

1665
01:55:39,375 --> 01:55:39,916
what's going on in

1666
01:55:39,916 --> 01:55:40,791
your life, how the kids

1667
01:55:40,791 --> 01:55:42,291
you know, all that kind of stuff. And so

1668
01:55:42,291 --> 01:55:43,208
every once in a while, I'll throw

1669
01:55:43,208 --> 01:55:44,791
something down because it just it's

1670
01:55:44,791 --> 01:55:46,541
humanized you. Yeah, people are listening

1671
01:55:46,708 --> 01:55:47,958
to you, whether they're watching you on

1672
01:55:47,958 --> 01:55:49,416
TikTok or listening through the podcast.

1673
01:55:50,083 --> 01:55:51,750
It gets you're in your ears, right?

1674
01:55:51,750 --> 01:55:53,958
You're in their eyes on a regular basis.

1675
01:55:54,208 --> 01:55:55,791
And so they tend to have

1676
01:55:55,791 --> 01:55:57,958
that like, almost like a loyalty to you.

1677
01:55:57,958 --> 01:55:58,750
But like, you're

1678
01:55:58,750 --> 01:56:00,000
like, in there, they're an

1679
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:01,333
influence, you're an influence. I guess

1680
01:56:01,333 --> 01:56:02,500
that's where the influence came from. But

1681
01:56:02,500 --> 01:56:04,291
you're an influence and how they think

1682
01:56:04,291 --> 01:56:07,041
about marine science and, and having that

1683
01:56:07,041 --> 01:56:09,375
personality I really like I loved your

1684
01:56:09,375 --> 01:56:12,416
the videos of you going back to Hawaii.

1685
01:56:12,625 --> 01:56:13,166
Thank you.

1686
01:56:13,166 --> 01:56:14,375
That was really I felt that was really

1687
01:56:14,375 --> 01:56:15,750
special. And just

1688
01:56:15,750 --> 01:56:16,458
because you're like, you

1689
01:56:16,583 --> 01:56:17,916
love you can tell you love it just from

1690
01:56:17,916 --> 01:56:19,958
the podcast. But before I knew you loved

1691
01:56:19,958 --> 01:56:20,958
just from that video,

1692
01:56:20,958 --> 01:56:22,458
because you're like, it was wild

1693
01:56:22,458 --> 01:56:24,541
since you had been back and you want to

1694
01:56:24,541 --> 01:56:26,208
do you know, spend time with your friends

1695
01:56:26,208 --> 01:56:26,708
and you're like,

1696
01:56:26,708 --> 01:56:27,333
there's you're talking about,

1697
01:56:27,541 --> 01:56:28,500
couldn't see everybody was a little

1698
01:56:28,500 --> 01:56:30,583
chaotic, but it's a lot. It's always fun.

1699
01:56:30,583 --> 01:56:31,833
I like that part,

1700
01:56:31,833 --> 01:56:33,500
because it does show that

1701
01:56:33,583 --> 01:56:35,625
personality. Yes, you know a ton about

1702
01:56:35,625 --> 01:56:36,875
marine science, and you're willing to

1703
01:56:36,875 --> 01:56:37,958
share everything. But

1704
01:56:37,958 --> 01:56:38,708
yeah, you got to get to

1705
01:56:38,708 --> 01:56:39,791
know you got to get to know the

1706
01:56:39,791 --> 01:56:42,416
Mackenzie, right? That's the best part of

1707
01:56:42,416 --> 01:56:43,416
it all. And I think

1708
01:56:43,416 --> 01:56:44,541
that's important, because

1709
01:56:44,583 --> 01:56:47,458
then it allows people to be like, Oh,

1710
01:56:47,458 --> 01:56:49,583
well, yeah, don't go attacking her. She's

1711
01:56:49,583 --> 01:56:51,250
just doing what she's doing. You know,

1712
01:56:51,250 --> 01:56:52,458
she's just doing what she loves.

1713
01:56:52,458 --> 01:56:54,166
So let her let her do that. And I think

1714
01:56:54,166 --> 01:56:55,541
that's, that's, that's really important.

1715
01:56:56,208 --> 01:56:57,541
I got to ask just as we kind of wrapping

1716
01:56:57,541 --> 01:56:59,291
up here, and you and I could

1717
01:56:59,291 --> 01:57:01,166
probably talk for like three hours just

1718
01:57:01,166 --> 01:57:03,750
on on science communication alone. You

1719
01:57:03,750 --> 01:57:06,000
know, coming up, you've had, you know,

1720
01:57:06,000 --> 01:57:06,541
there's been probably

1721
01:57:06,541 --> 01:57:07,666
opportunities presented, you talked about

1722
01:57:07,666 --> 01:57:09,333
like a management team now that you have.

1723
01:57:10,458 --> 01:57:12,541
Where do you want to take your science

1724
01:57:12,708 --> 01:57:14,333
communication? Like, how do you want to

1725
01:57:14,333 --> 01:57:15,500
like, I know, like I've been on your

1726
01:57:15,500 --> 01:57:17,041
website talks a lot about science

1727
01:57:17,083 --> 01:57:18,875
communication. Where do you want to go

1728
01:57:18,875 --> 01:57:20,083
with with all of this?

1729
01:57:20,916 --> 01:57:23,375
Um, well, right now, I am like waiting to

1730
01:57:23,375 --> 01:57:26,166
hear about a graduate program that I've

1731
01:57:26,166 --> 01:57:31,958
applied for. And so thank you. I'm very

1732
01:57:31,958 --> 01:57:33,125
nervous. It would be a

1733
01:57:33,125 --> 01:57:35,541
very big, a big transition in my life.

1734
01:57:36,083 --> 01:57:37,958
And so that is something that I kind of,

1735
01:57:37,958 --> 01:57:39,833
I would like to take my audience along

1736
01:57:39,833 --> 01:57:41,000
with me and what that looks

1737
01:57:41,041 --> 01:57:44,666
like. Yeah, so that's just, yeah, that's

1738
01:57:44,666 --> 01:57:46,333
that's kind of what I you know, I did a

1739
01:57:46,333 --> 01:57:47,375
graduate diploma. So just

1740
01:57:47,375 --> 01:57:48,583
a one year in fisheries and

1741
01:57:48,583 --> 01:57:50,500
agriculture. And it's allowing me to

1742
01:57:50,500 --> 01:57:53,083
apply for this program. And it's, it's a

1743
01:57:53,083 --> 01:57:55,416
bit it would be a big, big move, big, big

1744
01:57:55,416 --> 01:57:57,708
transition. And so I

1745
01:57:58,083 --> 01:58:04,083
am, you know, kind of just kind of

1746
01:58:04,083 --> 01:58:05,833
waiting and I like to share about that. I

1747
01:58:05,833 --> 01:58:08,000
think that's kind of where I see myself

1748
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:10,250
going is sharing more of my research and

1749
01:58:10,250 --> 01:58:13,000
what I'm doing actively in the field. I

1750
01:58:13,000 --> 01:58:15,333
still like you know, I enjoy, I've made,

1751
01:58:15,541 --> 01:58:17,000
you know, the pandemic when I was a

1752
01:58:17,000 --> 01:58:18,416
little bit like I was, you know, taking

1753
01:58:18,416 --> 01:58:20,333
care of my grandma, I wasn't as active in

1754
01:58:20,333 --> 01:58:23,250
actual research. I, you know, got to make

1755
01:58:23,250 --> 01:58:25,500
really fun videos like, you know, like

1756
01:58:25,500 --> 01:58:27,083
what octopus you are based on your zodiac sign and all that. And I think that's kind of where I'm going.

1757
01:58:41,750 --> 01:58:43,000
And that's kind of where I want to start

1758
01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:45,083
leaning into. So yes, I still want to make fun science communication videos, but I also want to bring people in to the research a little bit more. And I last year I was doing research at a lab that wasn't as successful as I was doing before.

1759
01:58:52,500 --> 01:58:53,333
And so I didn't get to share as much as

1760
01:58:53,333 --> 01:58:56,208
what I was doing. And like now the paper

1761
01:58:56,208 --> 01:58:57,250
is kind of in production and it will be

1762
01:58:57,250 --> 01:58:59,083
published this year. That's kind of what I've been working on lately is is getting that paper ready. And so once it's published, I'll be able to kind of talk about a little bit more.

1763
01:58:59,125 --> 01:59:00,458
But just because of the like the nature

1764
01:59:00,458 --> 01:59:01,416
of, of, you know, of the lab and what

1765
01:59:01,416 --> 01:59:03,166
they kind of do. Sometimes you can't

1766
01:59:03,166 --> 01:59:04,958
sometimes you can't. Yeah, sometimes it's

1767
01:59:04,958 --> 01:59:05,958
awesome. It's going to be discussed.

1768
01:59:06,250 --> 01:59:08,833
There's, you know, there's that's that's

1769
01:59:08,833 --> 01:59:10,291
the nature of things. That's

1770
01:59:10,291 --> 01:59:17,500
just kind of the honest thing.

1771
01:59:29,750 --> 01:59:33,083
So, you know, I'm, but the lab that I

1772
01:59:33,083 --> 01:59:34,916
applied for the graduate program that I

1773
01:59:34,916 --> 01:59:36,500
applied for, they're very open. Their

1774
01:59:36,500 --> 01:59:37,083
whole basis is, you know, it is climate change and fisheries and all of these sorts of things that's their main focus,
but also they have a real emphasis on science communication and the advisor has, you know, talked to me about it.

1775
01:59:45,333 --> 01:59:49,750
And it's very open to me sharing my

1776
01:59:49,750 --> 01:59:51,625
experiences, which was really important

1777
01:59:51,625 --> 01:59:52,958
to me when I was applying for this

1778
01:59:52,958 --> 01:59:55,666
graduate program. So that's kind of where

1779
01:59:55,666 --> 01:59:57,500
I want to go is yes, still have those

1780
01:59:57,500 --> 01:59:58,083
kind of fun pieces still be educating, but also be showing what what life is really like that, you know, yes, marine science can be really fun. And yes, it is an incredible career.

1781
02:00:04,916 --> 02:00:09,416
I love it with all my heart, but it is

1782
02:00:09,416 --> 02:00:11,041
not just like playing with dolphins and

1783
02:00:11,041 --> 02:00:14,875
going for swimming. It is also a lot of

1784
02:00:14,875 --> 02:00:16,666
times. Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be

1785
02:00:16,666 --> 02:00:18,708
great. There's also like a lot of science

1786
02:00:18,708 --> 02:00:20,083
involved. There's a lot of sitting behind my computer. You know, there's a lot of sitting right here at this spot on this laptop, looking out this window of how beautiful of a day it is. It'd be amazing.

1787
02:00:27,833 --> 02:00:30,875
I don't get to go outside because I have

1788
02:00:30,875 --> 02:00:33,291
to write this frickin grant. I have to

1789
02:00:33,291 --> 02:00:37,125
sit here and yeah, code some are always

1790
02:00:37,125 --> 02:00:40,458
that that's always fun. People love our

1791
02:00:40,458 --> 02:00:41,083
yeah, for sure. No, we would never we would never speak down about our ever. So you know, like that. I think that reality is so important.

1792
02:00:51,083 --> 02:00:53,458
I, I, when I first got involved in

1793
02:00:53,458 --> 02:00:54,916
science communication, I found people

1794
02:00:54,916 --> 02:00:56,125
like always talked about like the

1795
02:00:56,125 --> 02:00:58,291
benefits of of marine science and there

1796
02:00:58,291 --> 02:00:59,583
was always these videos that were like

1797
02:00:59,583 --> 02:01:01,250
marine science and it's like there's

1798
02:01:01,250 --> 02:01:02,083
dolphins and there's ocean and there's all these things and they're going for Diaries and they're all this stuff. I'm like, I'm like, okay, that yes, but also I think that we should like tell people that like that's not all of us.

1799
02:01:11,916 --> 02:01:14,500
Yeah, a lot of it is analyzing all your

1800
02:01:14,500 --> 02:01:17,041
data is office time is sitting in a lab.

1801
02:01:17,041 --> 02:01:21,083
It is waiting for your PCR to run. It is waiting for your you know, your experiment to be to be conducted. It's all of these things that are not as glamorous. And so that's one of the things I started talking about that I think people really connected to because I was like, I'm going to do a lot of things because I think that's really cool.

1802
02:01:21,125 --> 02:01:23,125
It is waiting for your, you know, your

1803
02:01:23,125 --> 02:01:25,500
experiment to be to be conducted. It's

1804
02:01:25,500 --> 02:01:27,000
all of these things that are not as

1805
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:28,083
glamorous. And so that's one of the

1806
02:01:28,083 --> 02:01:29,125
things I started talking about that I

1807
02:01:29,125 --> 02:01:31,750
think people really connected to because

1808
02:01:31,750 --> 02:01:34,000
I was like, it's underfunded. It can be

1809
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:36,208
really tough. There we still deal

1810
02:01:36,208 --> 02:01:38,500
competitive. Oh, it's competitive. It's

1811
02:01:38,500 --> 02:01:40,375
so competitive. It's very much who you

1812
02:01:40,375 --> 02:01:42,166
know, it's, you know, and a lot of times

1813
02:01:42,166 --> 02:01:43,625
you're up against your friends, which

1814
02:01:43,625 --> 02:01:45,500
does not feel good. You're going up

1815
02:01:45,500 --> 02:01:46,791
against people that you're working, you

1816
02:01:46,791 --> 02:01:47,458
know, that you've worked

1817
02:01:47,458 --> 02:01:48,583
with that you've studied with.

1818
02:01:49,125 --> 02:01:52,375
It is it is not all fishies and dolphins.

1819
02:01:52,666 --> 02:01:55,000
It is is is hard. And so that's kind of

1820
02:01:55,000 --> 02:01:56,583
one of the things that I've I talked

1821
02:01:56,583 --> 02:01:57,958
about previously that people really

1822
02:01:57,958 --> 02:01:59,416
connected to people really thankful for

1823
02:01:59,416 --> 02:02:00,791
that. And I've gotten a lot of messages

1824
02:02:00,791 --> 02:02:03,000
of people being like, thank you for that.

1825
02:02:03,000 --> 02:02:04,500
Like, I really want to get into marine

1826
02:02:04,500 --> 02:02:06,500
science, but I didn't realize that there

1827
02:02:06,500 --> 02:02:08,208
was all of these other aspects. And I'm

1828
02:02:08,208 --> 02:02:09,875
like, no, I'm glad that you were able to

1829
02:02:09,875 --> 02:02:11,125
understand that. And so that's kind of

1830
02:02:11,125 --> 02:02:12,833
where I want to keep going. I want to

1831
02:02:12,833 --> 02:02:14,666
keep educating, keep talking, keep

1832
02:02:14,666 --> 02:02:15,958
bringing people, connect people to the

1833
02:02:15,958 --> 02:02:17,541
ocean, giving them that like sense of

1834
02:02:17,541 --> 02:02:18,083
care, giving them that.

1835
02:02:18,083 --> 02:02:21,291
Ability to want to be involved in marine

1836
02:02:21,291 --> 02:02:22,791
conservation. You know, I always think

1837
02:02:22,791 --> 02:02:24,333
that's the most important part. If I can

1838
02:02:24,333 --> 02:02:26,000
teach you about a new animal that oh my

1839
02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:27,125
God, you're obsessed with that animal.

1840
02:02:27,625 --> 02:02:28,875
Okay, cool. In order to protect that

1841
02:02:28,875 --> 02:02:29,958
animal, we have to do all of these things

1842
02:02:29,958 --> 02:02:32,875
as well. There's there's pieces that are

1843
02:02:32,875 --> 02:02:36,291
important. Yeah, exactly. So I, you know,

1844
02:02:36,291 --> 02:02:37,583
I always will do that. I will always keep

1845
02:02:37,583 --> 02:02:39,750
doing that. But also, I'm really excited

1846
02:02:39,750 --> 02:02:41,833
to share a little bit more about what the

1847
02:02:41,833 --> 02:02:44,000
world really looks like and and what all

1848
02:02:44,000 --> 02:02:46,291
those things are aspects. So we'll, we'll

1849
02:02:46,291 --> 02:02:47,083
know in a few weeks, hopefully.

1850
02:02:47,125 --> 02:02:50,458
And and I know it's gonna turn out well.

1851
02:02:50,666 --> 02:02:53,375
I have the feeling you deserve it. You

1852
02:02:53,375 --> 02:02:54,666
definitely deserve it. You know, all the

1853
02:02:54,666 --> 02:02:56,125
decisions you made to get to where you're

1854
02:02:56,125 --> 02:02:58,708
at. They've been for a reason. You are an

1855
02:02:58,708 --> 02:03:00,166
amazing scientist. The way you speak

1856
02:03:00,166 --> 02:03:03,583
about science is amazing. And you can

1857
02:03:03,583 --> 02:03:05,000
tell there's a lot of passion in there.

1858
02:03:05,666 --> 02:03:07,166
So, you know, fingers crossed. But I'm

1859
02:03:07,166 --> 02:03:09,125
very confident that you'll get this. And

1860
02:03:09,125 --> 02:03:12,541
we can't wait to see. I speak on behalf

1861
02:03:12,541 --> 02:03:13,958
of the audience here. We can't wait to

1862
02:03:13,958 --> 02:03:15,125
see what you what you're gonna come up

1863
02:03:15,125 --> 02:03:16,083
with. Thank you. And the science is amazing.

1864
02:03:16,125 --> 02:03:18,500
And the content you're gonna make after

1865
02:03:18,500 --> 02:03:21,250
you get this. So I can't wait to see. So

1866
02:03:21,250 --> 02:03:22,916
it's gonna be a lot of fun to it to be

1867
02:03:22,916 --> 02:03:23,916
able to see that. And I know what's gonna

1868
02:03:23,916 --> 02:03:27,000
happen. I know it. It's it has to be in

1869
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:29,750
the cards. You deserve it. So anyway, you

1870
02:03:29,750 --> 02:03:31,208
look, this has been fantastic. I'd love

1871
02:03:31,208 --> 02:03:33,125
to invite you back on another time to be

1872
02:03:33,125 --> 02:03:35,541
able to talk more. And then maybe we'll

1873
02:03:35,541 --> 02:03:37,541
talk more about about what's gonna happen

1874
02:03:37,541 --> 02:03:39,666
with you with your graduate work. That'll

1875
02:03:39,666 --> 02:03:41,625
be fun. But it's also, you know, if you

1876
02:03:41,625 --> 02:03:44,416
want to check out Mackenzie, it's let me

1877
02:03:44,416 --> 02:03:45,083
just make sure I have it right.

1878
02:03:45,125 --> 02:03:52,000
It's Mackenzie S E A at the end. So M C K

1879
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:56,291
E N C E S C S E A. I can't spell. I'll

1880
02:03:56,291 --> 02:03:57,791
put in the link so everybody can see it.

1881
02:03:57,791 --> 02:03:59,291
But check out the TikTok and the same

1882
02:03:59,291 --> 02:04:01,958
handle for Instagram. Correct? There's an

1883
02:04:01,958 --> 02:04:05,291
underscore because somebody stole my

1884
02:04:05,291 --> 02:04:07,083
username. I've tried to argue with

1885
02:04:07,083 --> 02:04:08,958
Instagram about it for years now to let

1886
02:04:08,958 --> 02:04:10,333
me have it because it's a it's a count

1887
02:04:10,333 --> 02:04:11,916
that nobody uses. It's a private account

1888
02:04:11,916 --> 02:04:13,375
that's never had anything on it. And I'm

1889
02:04:13,375 --> 02:04:14,083
like, please just give it to me. Just give it to me.

1890
02:04:14,083 --> 02:04:20,500
Yeah, that's the worst justice. I think

1891
02:04:20,500 --> 02:04:22,750
this is great. I want people to check it

1892
02:04:22,750 --> 02:04:24,875
out and let us know how you feel about

1893
02:04:24,875 --> 02:04:27,416
it. You know, reach out to you if they if

1894
02:04:27,416 --> 02:04:29,000
they want to get more, they want to have

1895
02:04:29,000 --> 02:04:30,791
a question about an animal. I'm sure

1896
02:04:30,791 --> 02:04:32,458
you'll be able to answer it. I'll go on

1897
02:04:32,458 --> 02:04:34,416
the list of things to be able to answer.

1898
02:04:34,416 --> 02:04:36,666
But absolutely, Kenzie, Mackenzie, this

1899
02:04:36,666 --> 02:04:38,458
has been amazing. I really appreciate you

1900
02:04:38,458 --> 02:04:39,625
coming. Like I said, it's been on my

1901
02:04:39,625 --> 02:04:41,625
bucket list for a while. And I'm just

1902
02:04:41,625 --> 02:04:42,666
really happy to have you on it. I would

1903
02:04:42,666 --> 02:04:43,083
love to have you back on anytime.

1904
02:04:44,125 --> 02:04:46,000
Of course, I would love to love to be

1905
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:48,500
back on this was very fun. Thank you,

1906
02:04:48,500 --> 02:04:49,916
Mackenzie, for joining us on today's

1907
02:04:49,916 --> 02:04:51,291
episode of the How to Protect the Ocean

1908
02:04:51,291 --> 02:04:52,916
podcast was great to be able to get to

1909
02:04:52,916 --> 02:04:55,250
know you to get to know how you got to

1910
02:04:55,250 --> 02:04:56,958
where you are, how you got so many

1911
02:04:56,958 --> 02:04:59,166
followers and just the amount of effort

1912
02:04:59,166 --> 02:05:01,125
you put in to each of those pieces of

1913
02:05:01,125 --> 02:05:02,666
science communication on every platform.

1914
02:05:03,041 --> 02:05:04,625
I just think it's fantastic. I don't

1915
02:05:04,625 --> 02:05:07,166
think we realize how much work goes into

1916
02:05:07,166 --> 02:05:09,500
creating content these days and to be

1917
02:05:09,500 --> 02:05:11,583
able to create good content, whether it's

1918
02:05:11,583 --> 02:05:12,916
a video that you put up for

1919
02:05:12,916 --> 02:05:13,083
five minutes and it goes viral.

1920
02:05:13,125 --> 02:05:16,333
Or it's a video you spend, you know, 45

1921
02:05:16,333 --> 02:05:18,125
minutes to two hours on editing and

1922
02:05:18,125 --> 02:05:20,000
making sure there's enough B roll to keep

1923
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:22,416
people engaged and to inform people of

1924
02:05:22,416 --> 02:05:24,375
what there's do. It is harder than you

1925
02:05:24,375 --> 02:05:26,875
think. Trust me as a content creator. It

1926
02:05:26,875 --> 02:05:28,791
is not easy to put everything you need to

1927
02:05:28,791 --> 02:05:30,541
put to make it not only to balance the

1928
02:05:30,541 --> 02:05:32,250
entertainment value, the education value

1929
02:05:32,250 --> 02:05:32,875
and the conservation

1930
02:05:32,875 --> 02:05:33,083
value. It's a lot of work.

1931
02:05:34,083 --> 02:05:37,666
And I just love how Mackenzie will sort

1932
02:05:37,666 --> 02:05:40,791
of stand up for herself online when you

1933
02:05:40,791 --> 02:05:42,916
put yourself out as a content creator,

1934
02:05:42,916 --> 02:05:44,666
you put yourself out to criticism and

1935
02:05:44,666 --> 02:05:46,583
some criticism for me, especially like

1936
02:05:46,583 --> 02:05:48,166
when I get Christmas is valid. Sometimes

1937
02:05:48,166 --> 02:05:49,541
like the like, oh, yeah, I missed a

1938
02:05:49,541 --> 02:05:51,083
little piece or I could have added to

1939
02:05:51,083 --> 02:05:53,291
that piece and it's valid to acknowledge,

1940
02:05:53,291 --> 02:05:54,000
you know, either in

1941
02:05:54,000 --> 02:05:55,083
another video or in the comments.

1942
02:05:55,125 --> 02:05:56,916
But then there are sometimes when they

1943
02:05:56,916 --> 02:05:58,958
just come for your throat for no reason

1944
02:05:58,958 --> 02:06:00,708
and you have to stand up for yourself.

1945
02:06:00,708 --> 02:06:01,833
There's sometimes you have to wait and

1946
02:06:01,833 --> 02:06:03,208
there's sometimes you have to stand up

1947
02:06:03,208 --> 02:06:04,250
for yourself. And sometimes you have to

1948
02:06:04,250 --> 02:06:05,583
get emotional. Sometimes you don't.

1949
02:06:05,833 --> 02:06:07,833
And it's just really hard to balance that

1950
02:06:07,833 --> 02:06:09,375
and making sure that you have people in

1951
02:06:09,375 --> 02:06:11,166
your life to kind of spitball certain

1952
02:06:11,166 --> 02:06:13,458
ideas of how to respond, making sure that

1953
02:06:13,458 --> 02:06:15,041
you're calm and collective and making

1954
02:06:15,041 --> 02:06:16,791
sure you take that 24 hour rule in my

1955
02:06:16,791 --> 02:06:18,458
case anyway, or take a couple of hours

1956
02:06:18,458 --> 02:06:20,000
just to wait and be able to respond

1957
02:06:20,000 --> 02:06:21,875
because you don't want to get too

1958
02:06:21,875 --> 02:06:23,083
emotional around it in terms of.

1959
02:06:24,083 --> 02:06:26,500
Not making your case because you're not

1960
02:06:26,500 --> 02:06:28,000
thinking the way you want to think,

1961
02:06:28,000 --> 02:06:29,833
right? That's really what it goes down

1962
02:06:29,833 --> 02:06:32,333
to. But the way Mackenzie is able to

1963
02:06:32,333 --> 02:06:34,750
balance that is phenomenal. The way she

1964
02:06:34,750 --> 02:06:36,875
sometimes will, as she mentioned, be a

1965
02:06:36,875 --> 02:06:38,583
little more emotional or sometimes not

1966
02:06:38,583 --> 02:06:40,541
emotional and just respond in a

1967
02:06:40,541 --> 02:06:42,583
scientific way and in a conservation way

1968
02:06:42,583 --> 02:06:43,083
or an educational way.

1969
02:06:43,083 --> 02:06:45,833
I just think it's phenomenal. And, you

1970
02:06:45,833 --> 02:06:47,250
know, some of the topics, especially when

1971
02:06:47,250 --> 02:06:49,166
it comes to the LGBTQ plus community and

1972
02:06:49,166 --> 02:06:50,583
some of the things that she's probably

1973
02:06:50,583 --> 02:06:52,541
heard in the response that she's had in a

1974
02:06:52,541 --> 02:06:54,416
negative way that will get you there. And

1975
02:06:54,416 --> 02:06:56,833
it's very difficult to watch people have

1976
02:06:56,833 --> 02:06:58,333
to listen to that and have to go through

1977
02:06:58,333 --> 02:06:59,916
that. But the way she responds, I have

1978
02:06:59,916 --> 02:07:01,958
utmost respect for it. So I really love

1979
02:07:01,958 --> 02:07:04,000
the way she does her content. So follow

1980
02:07:04,000 --> 02:07:04,750
her. I'll put the

1981
02:07:04,750 --> 02:07:05,833
links in the show notes.

1982
02:07:06,250 --> 02:07:12,041
I want you guys to get to know Mackenzie

1983
02:07:12,041 --> 02:07:14,166
like I get to know Mackenzie is a real

1984
02:07:14,166 --> 02:07:15,875
pleasure to have her on the podcast. I

1985
02:07:15,875 --> 02:07:17,708
can't wait to have her back again. They

1986
02:07:17,708 --> 02:07:20,041
listen to some more educational content

1987
02:07:20,041 --> 02:07:22,458
as well as find out more about her and

1988
02:07:22,458 --> 02:07:24,458
what she's up to. So thank you again,

1989
02:07:24,458 --> 02:07:25,416
Mackenzie. And I want to thank you for

1990
02:07:25,416 --> 02:07:27,041
listening. I would love to know what you

1991
02:07:27,041 --> 02:07:29,166
think of the type of topics that

1992
02:07:29,166 --> 02:07:31,291
Mackenzie covers, how she covers them. If

1993
02:07:31,291 --> 02:07:33,083
you know her, you've been a follower for her for a while. Love to know what made you follower. I want to know what you think of Mackenzie.

1994
02:07:33,125 --> 02:07:40,541
And if you have any comments on the way

1995
02:07:40,541 --> 02:07:41,958
we do content, love to hear those

1996
02:07:41,958 --> 02:07:44,208
thoughts as well. So just make a comment

1997
02:07:44,208 --> 02:07:45,791
on YouTube if you're watching this on

1998
02:07:45,791 --> 02:07:48,083
YouTube or you can hit me up on Instagram

1999
02:07:48,083 --> 02:07:50,250
at how to protect the ocean. That's how

2000
02:07:50,250 --> 02:07:51,958
to protect the ocean or go to speak up

2001
02:07:51,958 --> 02:07:53,291
for blue.com. We have everything in

2002
02:07:53,291 --> 02:07:54,916
contact with us. We have a contact page

2003
02:07:54,916 --> 02:07:56,833
or you can just put the comment just

2004
02:07:56,833 --> 02:07:58,083
right on the episode page. I want to thank you again for joining me on today's episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the channel.

2005
02:08:03,083 --> 02:08:04,208
I'm Andrew Norsch, strong and free. Have

2006
02:08:04,208 --> 02:08:05,208
a great day. We'll talk to

2007
02:08:05,208 --> 02:08:06,083
you soon and happy conservation.