How Much Do We Rely on Weather Forecasting? | The Truth About Weather Predictions

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How often do you rely on the weather?

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I mean, let's be honest, like we look at

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our local weather person and they provide

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the weather for us on the news.

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Or we look at our app on our phone and we

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look at the app and we say,

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"Oh, it's supposed to rain today at three

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o'clock or four o'clock."

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Or, "It's supposed to snow if you're in

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the place where I live in Ontario."

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We rely on that, but it's not always

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right because it depends on models and

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models are not always right,

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but they have their level of accuracy and

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weather patterns change.

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We have to understand the weather. We

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have to understand how our weather

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patterns around the world affect all of

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us from just a regular person like myself

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who goes out and walks the dogs that

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doesn't want to walk the dog in the rain.

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Even the dogs always

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want to walk in the rain.

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I have to know what the

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weather is going to be like.

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Or if a farmer knows what the weather is

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going to be like coming up over the next

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two weeks or a month or what those

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patterns are going to be like,

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they need to know what it's going to be

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like for their crops this year.

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A lot of people rely on weather. A lot of

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people rely on understanding the climate

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and the people who understand the

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climate, meteorologists and be able to

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communicate that towards us

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are really, really important.

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And that's going to be our focus on

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today's episode of How to

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Protect the Ocean podcast.

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We have Dave Jones, who's joining us

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today to talk about the importance of

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data that feeds in to what we know about

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our climate, what we know about the

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weather and how our climate is changing

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and how that can protect not only

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citizens around the world,

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but especially citizens in the US. We're

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talking about cuts to the National

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Weather Service. We're talking about cuts

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to know what we're talking about cuts to

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NASA and how that may or may not impact

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the world today as we see it for US

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citizens and the world.

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I can't wait for you to

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see the show. So let's start.

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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another

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exciting episode of the How to Protect

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the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew

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Lourin. This is the podcast where you

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find out what's happening with the ocean,

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how you can speak up for the ocean and

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what you do to live for a

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better ocean by taking action.

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And we're going to learn all about

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science today. We're going to learn about

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the climate. We're going to learn about

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the atmosphere. We learn about the

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oceans. We're going to learn about the

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data that provides us with the

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understanding of knowing so much more

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about the oceans that we did in 1900s.

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And we didn't have satellites. We didn't

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have buoy systems. We didn't have

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drifters all these different

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instrumentations that provide us with

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data to go to the people, the

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meteorologists, the oceanographers, the

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scientists who understand and interpret

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that information to provide it to us in a

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form that we can understand and that we

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can make better decisions around where we

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live, how we're going to live, where

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we're going to go that day, where we're

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going to go that hour.

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And of course, there are some times when

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it's not right and the weather changes.

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But for the most part, we get to

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understand, especially before we had all

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this data, we're talking about data in

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climate in the atmosphere because it's so

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important because there are cuts being

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made in the US where a lot of this data

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is funded and especially on an

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international level that could affect US

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citizen safety in terms of predicting

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hurricanes and other natural disasters

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and wind patterns that would affect them

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not only in money to clean up these

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natural disasters, but actual safety.

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So we want to understand what's happening

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all around that. And Dave Jones is

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joining me today. He is the founder and

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the CEO of Storm Center Communications

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and Geolocate, which is also a company

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that he owns. And he's on

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YouTube as Storm Center Inc.

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this is a one and I'll put the link to in

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the show notes that if you want to take a

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look and he goes on every once in a while

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to provide data for you with the public

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on YouTube and he's done it through

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natural disasters like hurricanes that we

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had in the fall of 2024.

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He'll do it again. This year, he'll talk

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about wind patterns to talk about weather

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patterns. Not only just in his area where

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he lives but also around the world.

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all different types of oceans,

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all different types of geographies.

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It's amazing.

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And I can't wait for

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you to hear this interview

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with Dave Jones.

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Here's the interview talking about

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the National Weather Service,

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as well as the importance of data

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when predicting climate and the weather.

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Enjoy the interview and

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I'll talk to you after.

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Hey Dave, welcome back to the

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How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about the weather?

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Oh, Andrew, I'm always

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ready to talk about the weather.

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I eat, sleep, and drink weather.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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Look, I am so excited

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that you're on the podcast.

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Cause we have a lot of questions to ask

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and to get answered.

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Right? There is a lot of cuts that

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happened over the last month or so.

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People are worried about their weather.

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Are they going to get their weather data?

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Dave, you provide the weather on a pretty

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much daily basis to a lot

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of different organizations,

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a lot of different, the public, you know,

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you're on YouTube and so forth.

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So I thought it would be good to have you

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on to help answer these questions,

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help put people's worries at bay or maybe

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just be like, no,

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there's a reason to be worried.

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Hopefully it's not the case, but we got

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to talk about it and I'm

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so excited to do so today.

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But before we do, Dave, why don't you

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just let, just remind people of who you

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are and what you do.

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Oh, sure, Andrew.

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Yeah, I'm Dave Jones.

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I'm the CEO and founder of

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Storm Center Communications.

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We've been around since 2001.

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We've done a lot of

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different things over the years.

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But what we do now is focus on data

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sharing and collaboration.

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We invented a technology called

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GeoCollaborate, which actually can access

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trusted data sources from many different

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platforms and pull them together in a

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collaborative GIS environment.

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So what all that means is that we can

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connect a bunch of people together in a

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web browser and we can then move their

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maps around and display

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trusted data on their maps,

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not screen sharing, but actually

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geospatial data sharing and delivering

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data right in front of people onto their

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systems so they can start to use it and

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understand how that data can be used to

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make their operations more efficient, to

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give them better situational awareness,

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understand impacts of changing climate or

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increased sea levels because of sea level

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rise and things like that.

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So I do that.

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And also, like you said, the YouTube

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page, I update my YouTube channel for the

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All Hazards Consortium, which is a

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nonprofit organization that brings

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together government organizations like

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state emergency management professionals,

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private sector liaisons within those

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state emergency management agencies,

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federal emergency management.

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And also, more importantly, the private

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sector owner and operators like from the

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communications, transportation, medical

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supply, logistics, energy sectors.

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So the utility trucks that have to

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respond to disasters, we provide them

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with weather briefings, especially when

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the weather gets exciting and impactful.

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So they can just when they're on their

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way to respond, they can be watching it

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on their phones or on their tablets.

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And it kind of brings everybody together

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in a collaborative common operating

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picture, if you will.

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That's amazing. Such an important service

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that you provide. Can you talk a little

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bit more about some of the talk about

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specific clientele? But who would want

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this type of weather service?

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Because obviously, you know, when people

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look at the weather, they go to their

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apps and they say, OK, this is what the

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weather is going to be like.

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And then they mistrust a little bit and

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they say, hey, no, that's actually not

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going to be the weather.

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You know, if you're on the coast, if you

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don't like the weather in five minutes,

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it'll change and this and that.

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But like you are providing like real time

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up to the minute data.

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And by the way, when you mention GIS,

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that's right down my alleyway.

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I'm a GIS analyst at heart.

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So this and looking at, you know, our GIS

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server and all that kind of stuff that we

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can geek out about that.

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But, you know, like what what who like

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who wants this type of data, this this

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like real time type of data?

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So, you know, when we talk about the all

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hazards consortium, there's a bunch of

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different organizations involved.

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And typically, private sector companies

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don't like to share information, you

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know, because they feel like it might get

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out to competitors and things like that.

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You know, for example, if a storm comes

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through and and, you know, 10 cell phone

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cell towers get knocked over, you know,

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companies are a little reticent to say,

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yeah, we just lost service in these in

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this 200 square mile area.

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Because then the other companies might

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say, hey, well, we're putting in

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temporary ones. We got

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service, you know, switch to us.

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So what we typically do is help to

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provide situational awareness for the

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general weather that's going on and the

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impacts that are happening.

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So we've worked for several decades with

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NOAA and the weather service and NASA.

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And so we can identify data that might

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help them in their planning.

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For example, these

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highways are flooded currently.

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We can see it in satellite imagery.

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We can now look at the projected flood

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inundation levels and see when those

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roads might be open so those utility

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01:09:02,416 --> 01:09:04,875
trucks can get into those neighborhoods,

274
01:09:05,333 --> 01:09:07,875
start to assess damage and start to

275
01:09:07,875 --> 01:09:10,250
restore power, restored quicker.

276
01:09:11,500 --> 01:09:14,000
There's a really interesting one.

277
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,375
One of the partners that we serve is a

278
01:09:17,375 --> 01:09:19,541
very large provider of prescription

279
01:09:19,541 --> 01:09:22,416
medications to around the

280
01:09:22,416 --> 01:09:23,500
country and around the world.

281
01:09:23,750 --> 01:09:26,125
So CVS, Walgreens, you know, all these

282
01:09:26,125 --> 01:09:28,833
pharmacies, they get their prescription

283
01:09:28,833 --> 01:09:30,666
drugs from this company.

284
01:09:30,666 --> 01:09:32,083
They're a logistics and transportation

285
01:09:32,083 --> 01:09:33,875
company specializing in

286
01:09:33,875 --> 01:09:37,000
medical supplies and drugs.

287
01:09:37,041 --> 01:09:40,083
They have warehouses all around the

288
01:09:40,083 --> 01:09:41,500
country where they where they keep these

289
01:09:41,500 --> 01:09:42,041
and then they can

290
01:09:42,041 --> 01:09:43,041
distribute them quickly.

291
01:09:44,250 --> 01:09:49,875
But if a wildfire develops and the

292
01:09:49,875 --> 01:09:53,625
wildfire smoke gets into the warehouse

293
01:09:53,625 --> 01:09:57,208
through their air system and then they go

294
01:09:57,208 --> 01:09:58,541
to deliver these prescription

295
01:09:58,541 --> 01:10:02,041
medications, the receiving organization,

296
01:10:02,041 --> 01:10:04,083
whether it's a hospital or CVS or

297
01:10:04,083 --> 01:10:05,250
Walgreens or wherever,

298
01:10:06,041 --> 01:10:09,541
can refuse to take delivery of those

299
01:10:09,541 --> 01:10:11,541
medications if they smell smoke.

300
01:10:12,666 --> 01:10:12,875
Interesting.

301
01:10:13,541 --> 01:10:17,291
So that puts all those prescription drugs

302
01:10:17,291 --> 01:10:20,750
at risk for having to be thrown away,

303
01:10:21,291 --> 01:10:23,666
millions and billions of

304
01:10:23,666 --> 01:10:25,000
dollars worth of drugs.

305
01:10:25,666 --> 01:10:28,958
So they really never had the ability to

306
01:10:28,958 --> 01:10:31,416
identify where wildfire smoke is, where

307
01:10:31,416 --> 01:10:33,250
it's heading and where it might impact

308
01:10:33,250 --> 01:10:34,000
some of their facilities.

309
01:10:34,041 --> 01:10:37,250
So, you know, it's things like that that

310
01:10:37,250 --> 01:10:38,291
really make a

311
01:10:38,291 --> 01:10:39,458
difference for these companies.

312
01:10:39,875 --> 01:10:42,166
Now, when you first started thinking

313
01:10:42,166 --> 01:10:44,250
about the service and putting it together

314
01:10:44,250 --> 01:10:46,791
with your colleagues, did you ever

315
01:10:46,791 --> 01:10:49,416
anticipate the amount of people that

316
01:10:49,416 --> 01:10:51,458
would benefit from having the service?

317
01:10:52,458 --> 01:10:54,375
Like you probably have some idea of

318
01:10:54,375 --> 01:10:56,500
certain people and certain companies that

319
01:10:56,500 --> 01:10:58,000
would benefit. But that

320
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,041
sounds like a very unique case.

321
01:11:00,250 --> 01:11:02,250
Like, but I'm sure that it comes up more

322
01:11:02,250 --> 01:11:04,291
often than not, but probably something

323
01:11:04,291 --> 01:11:06,166
you didn't know right off the bat.

324
01:11:06,166 --> 01:11:07,500
You might have known. I didn't know that.

325
01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:09,000
I feel that's that's something that's

326
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:10,500
really that becomes really interesting

327
01:11:10,500 --> 01:11:12,166
when you talk about this type of stuff

328
01:11:12,166 --> 01:11:13,666
and how many businesses are impacted.

329
01:11:14,208 --> 01:11:16,333
But did you expect to help this many

330
01:11:16,333 --> 01:11:19,666
types of businesses and clients?

331
01:11:20,458 --> 01:11:22,000
Well, what's really interesting, Andrew,

332
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,000
is that when you start to talk and you

333
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,791
can get people together, I'm on a telecom

334
01:11:26,791 --> 01:11:30,666
with these groups together every Friday.

335
01:11:31,708 --> 01:11:34,125
And so, you know, and I've been on them

336
01:11:34,125 --> 01:11:37,583
for nine years. And so you build up this

337
01:11:37,583 --> 01:11:41,583
level of trust where they've now all

338
01:11:41,583 --> 01:11:44,958
elected all these, you know, not elected,

339
01:11:44,958 --> 01:11:48,416
but the all-hazard consortium has asked

340
01:11:48,416 --> 01:11:49,000
me to chair a company.

341
01:11:49,083 --> 01:11:52,125
A committee called the Weather Impacts

342
01:11:52,125 --> 01:11:56,291
Committee for all these industries. And

343
01:11:56,291 --> 01:11:59,125
so what that really does is it allows us

344
01:11:59,125 --> 01:12:02,500
to pull these groups together and and

345
01:12:02,500 --> 01:12:04,583
say, OK, guys, let's let's talk about

346
01:12:04,583 --> 01:12:05,916
hurricanes right now.

347
01:12:06,791 --> 01:12:09,500
What is what are the important indicators

348
01:12:09,500 --> 01:12:12,916
you need to know for you to make

349
01:12:12,916 --> 01:12:16,083
decisions? I mean, for utilities, for

350
01:12:16,083 --> 01:12:18,000
example, you know, if they have electric vehicles, you know, they're going to be able to get a lot of money.

351
01:12:18,125 --> 01:12:22,208
Electric substations that are close to

352
01:12:22,208 --> 01:12:26,500
the beach or an ocean or a bay or rivers

353
01:12:26,500 --> 01:12:29,916
and they see forecasted heights of storm

354
01:12:29,916 --> 01:12:32,708
surge or flooding heights from rainfall.

355
01:12:33,833 --> 01:12:35,375
And they can get that as early as

356
01:12:35,375 --> 01:12:37,666
possible. They can move to mitigate

357
01:12:37,666 --> 01:12:40,416
potential damage to that substation.

358
01:12:41,041 --> 01:12:43,583
And I think that when when we first

359
01:12:43,583 --> 01:12:46,750
started this out, we knew that weather

360
01:12:46,750 --> 01:12:48,750
information could be a very valuable

361
01:12:48,750 --> 01:12:50,958
asset and that people probably weren't

362
01:12:50,958 --> 01:12:53,750
using it to the best of their ability.

363
01:12:54,583 --> 01:12:57,375
And the thing is, it's it's complex. You

364
01:12:57,375 --> 01:12:59,916
know, it's it's complicated. It's it's

365
01:12:59,916 --> 01:13:01,000
it's not a weather app.

366
01:13:02,041 --> 01:13:05,125
It's a you know, you you look at your

367
01:13:05,125 --> 01:13:06,875
phone and you see these deterministic

368
01:13:06,875 --> 01:13:09,625
forecasts that are, you know, 10 days out

369
01:13:09,625 --> 01:13:13,125
and it's not possible. It's not possible.

370
01:13:13,541 --> 01:13:15,208
You mean, Dave, wait a minute. Hold on a

371
01:13:15,208 --> 01:13:16,916
second. This is breaking news. You

372
01:13:16,916 --> 01:13:19,375
telling me in like 10 days from now, it's

373
01:13:19,375 --> 01:13:21,708
not going to be minus 15 here in Canada

374
01:13:21,708 --> 01:13:23,208
because that's what it says. And I don't

375
01:13:23,208 --> 01:13:24,166
want to see that. I

376
01:13:24,166 --> 01:13:25,000
don't want to believe that.

377
01:13:26,041 --> 01:13:28,375
I know. I got just a quick funny story

378
01:13:28,375 --> 01:13:30,583
when I I used to do the weather for NBC

379
01:13:30,583 --> 01:13:32,833
in Washington, D.C. and I see four there

380
01:13:32,833 --> 01:13:35,791
for 10 years through the 90s. And this is

381
01:13:35,791 --> 01:13:38,000
a January day. I got done with the

382
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,625
weather and I had a call in the newsroom.

383
01:13:40,625 --> 01:13:42,000
He said, hey, Dave, you got a call online

384
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:45,916
one. OK, pick up the call. And and the

385
01:13:45,916 --> 01:13:48,875
person says, Dave, we watch you all the

386
01:13:48,875 --> 01:13:51,208
time. You and your the whole weather team

387
01:13:51,208 --> 01:13:53,000
is the most accurate. I

388
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:53,958
said, well, thanks very much.

389
01:13:54,041 --> 01:13:56,208
I appreciate that. She says, can you tell

390
01:13:56,208 --> 01:13:59,875
me what weather you have scheduled in

391
01:13:59,875 --> 01:14:03,541
July for my daughter's wedding? Because

392
01:14:03,541 --> 01:14:05,791
we need to know if we need to get a

393
01:14:05,791 --> 01:14:10,916
canopy or not. I love how they like they

394
01:14:10,916 --> 01:14:12,625
think that you have this ability to be

395
01:14:12,625 --> 01:14:14,500
like, you know what? I think that day is

396
01:14:14,500 --> 01:14:15,708
going to be really nice for you. I'm

397
01:14:15,708 --> 01:14:16,583
going to make sure of it.

398
01:14:17,208 --> 01:14:20,291
Well, climatology kicked off in my mind

399
01:14:20,291 --> 01:14:22,333
and I said, hazy, hot and humid with the

400
01:14:22,333 --> 01:14:24,250
chance of an afternoon thunderstorm.

401
01:14:24,250 --> 01:14:28,166
Exactly. Exactly. You can pretty much

402
01:14:28,166 --> 01:14:30,333
give those predictors and stuff. But

403
01:14:30,333 --> 01:14:32,333
yeah, I think it's you know, but I mean,

404
01:14:32,333 --> 01:14:34,250
it's so true, though, especially with

405
01:14:34,250 --> 01:14:35,541
local news. And I still think this

406
01:14:35,541 --> 01:14:37,500
happens to this day with with all the

407
01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:39,458
different apps that we have for and 24

408
01:14:39,458 --> 01:14:42,041
hour news and stuff. But news, like

409
01:14:42,041 --> 01:14:44,000
weather people, like the weatherman, the

410
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:45,375
weather woman and and and

411
01:14:45,375 --> 01:14:46,041
all folks that do the weather.

412
01:14:47,541 --> 01:14:50,666
They are a trusted source of feel like

413
01:14:50,666 --> 01:14:52,583
they have, you know, you yourself have a

414
01:14:52,583 --> 01:14:54,333
great personality. You have this ability

415
01:14:54,333 --> 01:14:56,750
to communicate with people and all the

416
01:14:56,750 --> 01:14:58,708
weather people that we see, depending on

417
01:14:58,708 --> 01:15:00,375
where they are in the world, they have

418
01:15:00,375 --> 01:15:01,291
this ability to

419
01:15:01,291 --> 01:15:02,791
communicate people and gain trust.

420
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,083
Now, some people lose that trust when the

421
01:15:05,083 --> 01:15:06,500
weather doesn't get right and they blame

422
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:08,541
it on the weather person. But for the

423
01:15:08,541 --> 01:15:10,250
most part, like, you know, I remember

424
01:15:10,250 --> 01:15:11,791
when I was a kid, you know, when the

425
01:15:11,791 --> 01:15:13,916
weather person came on, my parents like,

426
01:15:13,916 --> 01:15:15,000
no, we need to know the weather.

427
01:15:15,041 --> 01:15:18,375
Like, we need to know that forecast. And

428
01:15:18,375 --> 01:15:22,166
it's so interesting to see, like, you got

429
01:15:22,166 --> 01:15:25,250
like your your your your entire like

430
01:15:25,250 --> 01:15:28,083
field. You have to be really great

431
01:15:28,083 --> 01:15:29,291
science communicators

432
01:15:29,291 --> 01:15:30,541
to be able to do this.

433
01:15:30,541 --> 01:15:32,541
You're taking complex information just

434
01:15:32,541 --> 01:15:34,208
from a weather perspective for the

435
01:15:34,208 --> 01:15:36,041
general public, not what obviously you're

436
01:15:36,041 --> 01:15:36,916
doing in geo

437
01:15:36,916 --> 01:15:38,625
collaborate and Storm Center.

438
01:15:39,041 --> 01:15:41,458
But you have to be able to take that

439
01:15:41,458 --> 01:15:43,333
complex information and put it into a

440
01:15:43,333 --> 01:15:44,708
form where it's like, you're going to

441
01:15:44,708 --> 01:15:46,500
like the weather today or you're not

442
01:15:46,500 --> 01:15:47,250
going to like the weather.

443
01:15:48,041 --> 01:15:50,833
There's always somebody. There's always

444
01:15:50,833 --> 01:15:52,583
somebody that's going to say, oh, we got

445
01:15:52,583 --> 01:15:54,083
a beautiful day in store. And then you

446
01:15:54,083 --> 01:15:56,166
get a call and they say, I'm a farmer. We

447
01:15:56,166 --> 01:15:58,000
need rain. It's not a beautiful day.

448
01:15:58,041 --> 01:16:01,000
You know, exactly. Exactly. Right. But

449
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,583
how do you how do you develop that? Is

450
01:16:03,583 --> 01:16:05,625
that happening during schooling? Or is

451
01:16:05,625 --> 01:16:07,958
that just like a talent that people are

452
01:16:07,958 --> 01:16:10,125
attracted to when they go in this field?

453
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:12,625
Well, I mean, first of all, there's a

454
01:16:12,625 --> 01:16:13,958
couple of questions that you asked there

455
01:16:13,958 --> 01:16:15,958
and they're all really good. And they're

456
01:16:15,958 --> 01:16:17,041
they're they're ones that

457
01:16:17,041 --> 01:16:18,000
are important questions.

458
01:16:19,041 --> 01:16:21,875
First, you know, most meteorologists

459
01:16:21,875 --> 01:16:25,208
don't go into broadcasting. Right. So,

460
01:16:25,208 --> 01:16:28,208
you know, it's one percent or less of

461
01:16:28,208 --> 01:16:31,125
meteorologists that graduate are actually

462
01:16:31,125 --> 01:16:34,500
on TV communicating the

463
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:36,000
weather to their audience.

464
01:16:37,041 --> 01:16:41,458
But those that are on TV are the drivers

465
01:16:41,458 --> 01:16:45,708
for that newscast. And what I mean by

466
01:16:45,708 --> 01:16:48,875
that is research has showed this over and

467
01:16:48,875 --> 01:16:52,875
over again for decades that local weather

468
01:16:52,875 --> 01:16:54,541
is the number one reason

469
01:16:54,541 --> 01:16:56,500
why people watch local news.

470
01:16:57,041 --> 01:17:00,875
So they do build that relationship with

471
01:17:00,875 --> 01:17:02,541
the broadcast meteorologists, whether

472
01:17:02,541 --> 01:17:05,375
it's the morning shift or the afternoon

473
01:17:05,375 --> 01:17:07,958
or evening person or the weekend person.

474
01:17:08,666 --> 01:17:11,000
I used to go to these events in

475
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,000
Washington, D.C., where they'd have the

476
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,250
NBC four tent set up and, you know,

477
01:17:15,250 --> 01:17:16,625
they'd have a couple of, you know, the

478
01:17:16,625 --> 01:17:17,666
sports guy and a

479
01:17:17,666 --> 01:17:19,250
meteorologist there and an anchor.

480
01:17:19,500 --> 01:17:22,125
And and, you know, people come up to me

481
01:17:22,125 --> 01:17:24,375
and say, Dave, I wake up

482
01:17:24,375 --> 01:17:25,291
with you every morning.

483
01:17:26,541 --> 01:17:29,125
Yeah, for sure. It's so weird. Right.

484
01:17:29,166 --> 01:17:31,750
You're like, it is. It is. Or you're a

485
01:17:31,750 --> 01:17:33,083
lot taller than I thought.

486
01:17:35,041 --> 01:17:36,625
It's like, yeah, once you get out of the

487
01:17:36,625 --> 01:17:40,000
box of TV, you become a real person. But

488
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,791
but the communication part is really

489
01:17:42,791 --> 01:17:45,375
important for scientists and and

490
01:17:45,375 --> 01:17:49,666
scientists tend to, you know, it's it's

491
01:17:49,666 --> 01:17:51,750
an intense field, any kind of science.

492
01:17:52,041 --> 01:17:55,708
It's very intricate. It's complex. Some

493
01:17:55,708 --> 01:17:58,000
sciences involve a lot of math and

494
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:01,125
physics and things like that. So it's not

495
01:18:01,125 --> 01:18:02,375
something you're going to really talk

496
01:18:02,375 --> 01:18:04,833
about on TV. And other

497
01:18:04,833 --> 01:18:06,208
scientists might work at NASA.

498
01:18:06,708 --> 01:18:08,708
They might work at NOAA and doing

499
01:18:08,708 --> 01:18:12,458
research or EPA or doing air quality. And

500
01:18:12,458 --> 01:18:16,375
they're all critical jobs. Yeah. But some

501
01:18:16,375 --> 01:18:18,541
of them need a little help in

502
01:18:18,541 --> 01:18:20,041
communicating a little

503
01:18:20,041 --> 01:18:20,875
bit more effectively.

504
01:18:21,041 --> 01:18:24,000
And, you know, we've talked about this

505
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,125
and are really talking about it more

506
01:18:26,125 --> 01:18:29,125
right now. And that is that communication

507
01:18:29,125 --> 01:18:32,541
is so critical to talk about how

508
01:18:32,541 --> 01:18:35,666
important things are because, you know,

509
01:18:35,666 --> 01:18:38,833
many, many TV, this little kind of a pet

510
01:18:38,833 --> 01:18:41,125
peeve of mine is that most TV

511
01:18:41,125 --> 01:18:42,625
meteorologists and

512
01:18:42,625 --> 01:18:43,791
the stations themselves.

513
01:18:44,041 --> 01:18:47,583
Yeah, they'll show satellite image on the

514
01:18:47,583 --> 01:18:49,500
local newscast and they'll call it, you

515
01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:53,208
know, you know, News six sky. I, you

516
01:18:53,208 --> 01:18:56,500
know, and, you know, the radar, you know,

517
01:18:56,500 --> 01:18:58,208
digital Doppler X.T.

518
01:18:58,500 --> 01:19:00,958
You know, like it's a car with a number

519
01:19:00,958 --> 01:19:02,875
of letters together. It just people are

520
01:19:02,875 --> 01:19:04,833
like, oh, this must be serious. This is

521
01:19:04,833 --> 01:19:07,708
good. This is accurate. I watch that. And

522
01:19:07,708 --> 01:19:10,708
but what they don't do is say this radar

523
01:19:10,708 --> 01:19:12,000
data is from the

524
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:13,041
National Weather Service.

525
01:19:14,041 --> 01:19:16,333
And and it's important to keep going

526
01:19:16,333 --> 01:19:19,250
because we can communicate to you where

527
01:19:19,250 --> 01:19:22,250
the storms are. This satellite image is

528
01:19:22,250 --> 01:19:24,500
taken from a NOAA satellite that orbits

529
01:19:24,500 --> 01:19:26,666
twenty two thousand three hundred miles

530
01:19:26,666 --> 01:19:29,750
up in space in a geosynchronous orbit.

531
01:19:29,958 --> 01:19:31,791
What's that? Well, you can tell them

532
01:19:31,791 --> 01:19:34,791
about that and then say we need these

533
01:19:34,791 --> 01:19:37,000
satellites because we won't see these

534
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,000
hurricanes coming without them.

535
01:19:39,583 --> 01:19:44,166
And so that's being done maybe less than

536
01:19:44,166 --> 01:19:47,625
point five percent of the time around the

537
01:19:47,625 --> 01:19:50,958
nation, probably in Canada as well. And

538
01:19:50,958 --> 01:19:53,166
and it's it's really important that that

539
01:19:53,166 --> 01:19:55,791
attribution happened because otherwise

540
01:19:55,791 --> 01:19:58,916
people, you know, this was said on the on

541
01:19:58,916 --> 01:20:00,625
the floor of Congress.

542
01:20:01,958 --> 01:20:05,458
Years ago, a certain congressman stood up

543
01:20:05,458 --> 01:20:08,333
and said, why do we need the National

544
01:20:08,333 --> 01:20:10,166
Weather Service when I can

545
01:20:10,166 --> 01:20:11,541
turn on the weather channel?

546
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:16,000
You know, and and so, you know, my my

547
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:20,708
comeback to that is, hey, gotcha. Why do

548
01:20:20,708 --> 01:20:22,583
we need cows when we can go to the store

549
01:20:22,583 --> 01:20:25,791
and buy milk? Exactly. Right.

550
01:20:26,500 --> 01:20:33,500
I mean, the level of like naivete and

551
01:20:33,500 --> 01:20:38,000
just ignorance of where data comes from.

552
01:20:38,750 --> 01:20:40,500
And I guess it's like we're just we just

553
01:20:40,500 --> 01:20:42,000
end up taking it for granted.

554
01:20:42,041 --> 01:20:45,458
And I want to take the a good chunk of

555
01:20:45,458 --> 01:20:47,875
this episode to discuss this. But before

556
01:20:47,875 --> 01:20:49,250
I do, I have to ask that going back to

557
01:20:49,250 --> 01:20:52,291
the weather, the weather people, what

558
01:20:52,291 --> 01:20:56,500
short straw do you have to draw to be a

559
01:20:56,500 --> 01:20:58,958
weather person that goes out in a

560
01:20:58,958 --> 01:21:00,958
hurricane storm and

561
01:21:00,958 --> 01:21:02,000
bring it to the people?

562
01:21:02,041 --> 01:21:04,375
Like we know it's bad. Like why do they

563
01:21:04,375 --> 01:21:07,708
subject these poor weather people,

564
01:21:07,708 --> 01:21:09,875
sometimes journalists to putting them out

565
01:21:09,875 --> 01:21:11,541
in the middle of a storm? It doesn't

566
01:21:11,541 --> 01:21:13,291
matter what type of storms. It could be

567
01:21:13,291 --> 01:21:15,416
like a hurricane. It could be like

568
01:21:15,416 --> 01:21:17,000
tornado areas. It could

569
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:18,375
be like wildfire areas.

570
01:21:18,583 --> 01:21:20,708
Like, why do we do that? Like, what's the

571
01:21:20,708 --> 01:21:22,666
point of that? I don't know. I think

572
01:21:22,666 --> 01:21:25,000
stations might just like to bleep out bad

573
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,041
words when they, you know, when the winds

574
01:21:27,041 --> 01:21:29,041
come or something. And they really want

575
01:21:29,041 --> 01:21:30,708
to see you out in the elements.

576
01:21:31,041 --> 01:21:33,958
And it's like, really? Okay, so the next

577
01:21:33,958 --> 01:21:36,458
time a palm frond knocks my head off,

578
01:21:36,708 --> 01:21:39,458
make sure you describe to everybody, you

579
01:21:39,458 --> 01:21:41,916
know, how it felt because I won't be able

580
01:21:41,916 --> 01:21:44,750
to. I think, you know, I think there's a

581
01:21:44,750 --> 01:21:47,666
there's a there's a benefit for being out

582
01:21:47,666 --> 01:21:49,875
to talk to people about

583
01:21:49,875 --> 01:21:51,708
why they're not evacuating.

584
01:21:53,041 --> 01:21:56,125
Why are you going to stay on your

585
01:21:56,125 --> 01:21:59,750
sailboat right this dock when a 15 foot

586
01:21:59,750 --> 01:22:02,666
storm surges, you know, and and you do

587
01:22:02,666 --> 01:22:05,083
get people's answers like it never hits

588
01:22:05,083 --> 01:22:09,166
here. Yeah, you know, it always veers or

589
01:22:09,166 --> 01:22:12,583
it always weakens. And then, you know,

590
01:22:12,583 --> 01:22:14,583
when you go back and all of their stuff

591
01:22:14,583 --> 01:22:16,708
is gone, you can't find

592
01:22:16,708 --> 01:22:17,625
the person to interview.

593
01:22:18,416 --> 01:22:20,416
Then all of a sudden people like, Oh my

594
01:22:20,416 --> 01:22:22,500
gosh, they know they should have left.

595
01:22:22,916 --> 01:22:25,208
Yeah, but you know, chasing storms is

596
01:22:25,208 --> 01:22:27,416
always going to be kind of a ratings

597
01:22:27,416 --> 01:22:30,291
driver. It's it's dangerous. It's

598
01:22:30,291 --> 01:22:33,666
uncertain. Even the best of them get

599
01:22:33,666 --> 01:22:35,416
caught sometimes in

600
01:22:35,416 --> 01:22:37,125
precarious situations.

601
01:22:38,125 --> 01:22:41,833
And it drives ratings. Yeah. But the

602
01:22:41,833 --> 01:22:43,958
first thing they hear when they get done

603
01:22:43,958 --> 01:22:47,666
with the storm is a whole bunch of people

604
01:22:47,666 --> 01:22:51,416
leaving messages or, you know, social

605
01:22:51,416 --> 01:22:54,583
media posts like why the heck are you

606
01:22:54,583 --> 01:22:57,000
there? Why don't you leave and all that

607
01:22:57,000 --> 01:22:59,250
stuff? So that's an ongoing thing. And

608
01:22:59,250 --> 01:23:01,708
yeah, you know, even for storm chasing

609
01:23:01,708 --> 01:23:04,000
out in out in Oklahoma. Yeah.

610
01:23:04,041 --> 01:23:06,583
I think there's there's legislation

611
01:23:06,583 --> 01:23:09,458
that's now being proposed or put together

612
01:23:09,458 --> 01:23:13,375
in Oklahoma to only allow licensed

613
01:23:13,375 --> 01:23:17,000
meteorologists to chase storms. Because

614
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,375
it's getting kind of crazy out there with

615
01:23:19,375 --> 01:23:22,625
accidents and people taking chances and

616
01:23:22,625 --> 01:23:26,333
unqualified people taking people on tours

617
01:23:26,333 --> 01:23:29,000
and making money. Yeah. So, you know,

618
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:31,000
we're starting to see some impacts.

619
01:23:31,500 --> 01:23:33,625
For sure. Well, and and I think that's

620
01:23:33,625 --> 01:23:37,125
kind of goes back into, you know, knowing

621
01:23:37,125 --> 01:23:39,500
about the data being qualified to not

622
01:23:39,500 --> 01:23:41,166
only know about the data, but also to

623
01:23:41,166 --> 01:23:43,625
discuss the data in a way that can be

624
01:23:43,625 --> 01:23:46,250
interpreted. But let's let's talk about

625
01:23:46,250 --> 01:23:48,041
these sources of data that you mentioned

626
01:23:48,041 --> 01:23:50,750
earlier, you know, knowing where this

627
01:23:50,750 --> 01:23:52,666
data comes from, from NOAA, from NASA,

628
01:23:52,666 --> 01:23:54,416
from the National Weather Service. These

629
01:23:54,416 --> 01:23:57,625
are all very important systems in the

630
01:23:57,625 --> 01:23:58,500
government that have

631
01:23:58,500 --> 01:24:00,000
allowed, not only the U.S.

632
01:24:00,041 --> 01:24:03,208
but for the rest of the world to benefit

633
01:24:03,208 --> 01:24:05,666
from this data and the partnerships that

634
01:24:05,666 --> 01:24:07,916
have come from it with other countries

635
01:24:07,916 --> 01:24:09,958
and bring it all together, being able to

636
01:24:09,958 --> 01:24:11,833
piece all this data together to get

637
01:24:11,833 --> 01:24:14,291
almost a global picture of what's

638
01:24:14,291 --> 01:24:15,250
happening, whether it be

639
01:24:15,250 --> 01:24:16,000
satellites from the U.S.

640
01:24:16,041 --> 01:24:18,750
satellites from Canada, satellites from

641
01:24:18,750 --> 01:24:22,000
Europe and so forth. It's been a benefit

642
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:25,250
to the world to have this type of data.

643
01:24:25,833 --> 01:24:28,375
Can you talk about, you know, obviously

644
01:24:28,375 --> 01:24:30,125
this is leading into government cuts, the

645
01:24:30,125 --> 01:24:31,416
recent government cuts, but let's talk

646
01:24:31,416 --> 01:24:36,666
about why this data is so important to to

647
01:24:36,666 --> 01:24:38,750
help protect citizens of

648
01:24:38,750 --> 01:24:40,000
the U.S. as well as abroad.

649
01:24:40,041 --> 01:24:43,416
Sure. Well, I mean, let's start with

650
01:24:43,416 --> 01:24:46,458
satellites, you know, first, there's two

651
01:24:46,458 --> 01:24:48,041
different types of satellites that are up

652
01:24:48,041 --> 01:24:50,166
there orbiting the Earth. One of the

653
01:24:50,166 --> 01:24:52,500
geostationary satellites. They're the

654
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:55,291
ones and Europe has them. Japan has them.

655
01:24:55,666 --> 01:24:59,250
India has them. And they're all orbiting

656
01:24:59,250 --> 01:25:01,625
over the same spot on the Earth as the

657
01:25:01,625 --> 01:25:03,458
Earth rotates, the satellite orbits at

658
01:25:03,458 --> 01:25:06,875
the same speed. And so orbital speed. And

659
01:25:06,875 --> 01:25:08,541
so they're looking at the

660
01:25:08,541 --> 01:25:09,041
same spot at the same time.

661
01:25:10,041 --> 01:25:13,500
You know, all the time that allows us to

662
01:25:13,500 --> 01:25:15,625
sequence the clouds, put them in a loop

663
01:25:15,625 --> 01:25:18,166
and watch what's moving towards us or

664
01:25:18,166 --> 01:25:21,250
away from us. And so these satellites are

665
01:25:21,250 --> 01:25:25,041
always monitoring the entire disk, you

666
01:25:25,041 --> 01:25:27,166
know, all the hemispheres, you know,

667
01:25:27,458 --> 01:25:28,541
northern hemisphere, southern hemisphere,

668
01:25:28,791 --> 01:25:29,583
eastern hemisphere, western.

669
01:25:30,291 --> 01:25:33,916
And and we can see seedlings coming off

670
01:25:33,916 --> 01:25:37,583
of Africa that may turn into hurricanes

671
01:25:37,583 --> 01:25:40,416
or tropical cyclones and we can follow

672
01:25:40,416 --> 01:25:43,250
them across just by watching them and

673
01:25:43,250 --> 01:25:45,666
watching their dynamics, watching how

674
01:25:45,666 --> 01:25:46,958
they're developing and all

675
01:25:46,958 --> 01:25:48,708
that stuff without satellites.

676
01:25:49,666 --> 01:25:52,625
We wouldn't know that those systems were

677
01:25:52,625 --> 01:25:56,375
out there developing and we didn't have

678
01:25:56,375 --> 01:26:02,000
satellites in 1900 and 1900 there was one

679
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,083
of the biggest hurricanes to ever hit the

680
01:26:04,083 --> 01:26:06,875
United States, hit Galveston, Texas,

681
01:26:07,375 --> 01:26:10,041
killed some numbers or 6000 others or

682
01:26:10,041 --> 01:26:13,583
8000 people. They didn't see it coming

683
01:26:13,583 --> 01:26:17,000
and the storm surge was monstrous, led to

684
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:18,000
the building of the big sea.

685
01:26:18,333 --> 01:26:21,541
The big sea wall in Galveston to protect

686
01:26:21,541 --> 01:26:24,958
part of the island. And so these are what

687
01:26:24,958 --> 01:26:27,666
we call observing systems and these

688
01:26:27,666 --> 01:26:30,458
observing systems from a geostationary

689
01:26:30,458 --> 01:26:32,208
standpoint give us a

690
01:26:32,208 --> 01:26:34,416
really big broad picture.

691
01:26:35,416 --> 01:26:37,041
There are other satellites called polar

692
01:26:37,041 --> 01:26:39,166
orbiting satellites that orbit maybe

693
01:26:39,166 --> 01:26:43,333
about 300 miles up so much lower. They

694
01:26:43,333 --> 01:26:45,625
orbit from pole to pole and the earth

695
01:26:45,625 --> 01:26:47,833
rotates underneath of them. And so they

696
01:26:47,833 --> 01:26:49,083
take strips of data.

697
01:26:50,208 --> 01:26:52,625
Those satellites are critical because

698
01:26:52,625 --> 01:26:54,791
they have different sensors on them that

699
01:26:54,791 --> 01:26:57,666
can look through the atmosphere, look at

700
01:26:57,666 --> 01:27:00,708
the ocean, take temperature data. They

701
01:27:00,708 --> 01:27:03,291
can profile the atmosphere temperatures

702
01:27:03,291 --> 01:27:07,250
at different levels of the atmosphere and

703
01:27:07,250 --> 01:27:12,166
that data is critical for going into

704
01:27:12,166 --> 01:27:14,250
numerical weather prediction models.

705
01:27:15,333 --> 01:27:22,416
As a matter of fact, 95% of the data that

706
01:27:22,416 --> 01:27:24,875
goes into initializing a numerical

707
01:27:24,875 --> 01:27:27,750
weather prediction model comes from

708
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:32,666
satellites. So if satellites went away,

709
01:27:33,708 --> 01:27:37,958
we'd be in big trouble. Yeah, because you

710
01:27:37,958 --> 01:27:39,791
know, where we don't have a lot of

711
01:27:39,791 --> 01:27:41,166
observations is over the ocean.

712
01:27:42,041 --> 01:27:45,291
We call them data sparse areas. We have

713
01:27:45,291 --> 01:27:47,916
buoys that are out there in the ocean,

714
01:27:48,458 --> 01:27:51,625
not everywhere. We have floats called

715
01:27:51,625 --> 01:27:54,833
Argo floats. They they they're at the

716
01:27:54,833 --> 01:27:56,750
surface of the ocean and then they go

717
01:27:56,750 --> 01:28:00,916
down about 200 meters record data, they

718
01:28:00,916 --> 01:28:02,583
come back up and when they hit the

719
01:28:02,583 --> 01:28:03,833
surface, they transmit

720
01:28:03,833 --> 01:28:06,000
all those observations back.

721
01:28:07,041 --> 01:28:08,666
And that goes into numerical prediction

722
01:28:08,666 --> 01:28:11,625
models so we can have coupled ocean

723
01:28:11,625 --> 01:28:16,083
atmosphere models. There are gliders that

724
01:28:16,083 --> 01:28:18,791
go through the ocean that try to that

725
01:28:18,791 --> 01:28:22,083
that not try. They measure salinity and

726
01:28:22,083 --> 01:28:24,375
they measure temperature and currents.

727
01:28:24,375 --> 01:28:25,875
All that stuff is

728
01:28:25,875 --> 01:28:27,000
they're going up and down.

729
01:28:28,125 --> 01:28:31,583
Drifters there are Lagrangian drifters

730
01:28:31,583 --> 01:28:36,375
from University of San Diego, California,

731
01:28:36,375 --> 01:28:40,125
San Diego. These drifters can be put

732
01:28:40,125 --> 01:28:41,916
anywhere and they just drift with the

733
01:28:41,916 --> 01:28:44,500
currents but they report back wave

734
01:28:44,500 --> 01:28:45,916
heights, temperatures,

735
01:28:46,416 --> 01:28:48,208
pressures, things like that.

736
01:28:49,041 --> 01:28:52,333
So we use satellite data to estimate what

737
01:28:52,333 --> 01:28:54,541
the sea surface temperature is, but we

738
01:28:54,541 --> 01:28:57,750
can then use those drifting buoys to

739
01:28:57,750 --> 01:29:00,791
validate what those temperatures are to

740
01:29:00,791 --> 01:29:02,666
know that what the satellites are

741
01:29:02,666 --> 01:29:04,166
measuring is accurate.

742
01:29:05,041 --> 01:29:07,791
And so so that's that's satellites and

743
01:29:07,791 --> 01:29:10,375
some ocean observing systems. We also

744
01:29:10,375 --> 01:29:13,958
have land observing systems in the United

745
01:29:13,958 --> 01:29:16,333
States. They're called ASOS automated

746
01:29:16,333 --> 01:29:19,500
surface observing systems located a lot

747
01:29:19,500 --> 01:29:21,500
of airports, but also in other areas.

748
01:29:22,291 --> 01:29:23,208
States are putting in

749
01:29:23,208 --> 01:29:24,875
their own meso networks.

750
01:29:26,041 --> 01:29:34,041
And they're taking constant weather

751
01:29:34,041 --> 01:29:38,541
observations every minute or less and

752
01:29:38,541 --> 01:29:41,208
sending that data into the National

753
01:29:41,208 --> 01:29:43,958
Weather Service and those states maintain

754
01:29:43,958 --> 01:29:46,541
those sensors. They quality control, make

755
01:29:46,541 --> 01:29:48,000
sure that they're you know, the data is accurate. The Weather Service quality controls the data.

756
01:29:48,041 --> 01:29:53,541
You know, if they say, Hey, you know, is

757
01:29:53,541 --> 01:29:55,375
temperature saying 80 degrees, but every

758
01:29:55,375 --> 01:29:56,958
all the other sensors around it are

759
01:29:56,958 --> 01:29:59,666
saying 62. Why don't you go out and take

760
01:29:59,666 --> 01:30:04,083
a look at it? And so these are all around

761
01:30:04,083 --> 01:30:05,291
the world. It's not just an American

762
01:30:05,291 --> 01:30:07,208
waters like they are a number of them in

763
01:30:07,208 --> 01:30:08,541
the American waters, but this is all over

764
01:30:08,541 --> 01:30:10,500
the round because everything's connected,

765
01:30:10,500 --> 01:30:12,333
right? It's not just here's the 200

766
01:30:12,333 --> 01:30:15,000
nautical mile exclusive economic zone. We're just not going to know data outside of that. That doesn't help us.

767
01:30:15,041 --> 01:30:20,791
In terms of detecting a swell that comes

768
01:30:20,791 --> 01:30:23,375
in that may or may not affect the coastal

769
01:30:23,375 --> 01:30:26,791
area or you know, looking at a system

770
01:30:26,791 --> 01:30:29,083
that comes in from Africa during you know

771
01:30:29,083 --> 01:30:31,333
the summer and might hit there in the

772
01:30:31,333 --> 01:30:33,333
fall and knowing whether that's going to

773
01:30:33,333 --> 01:30:34,958
be a hurricane or not. These are all over

774
01:30:34,958 --> 01:30:36,791
the world. There's two partnerships with

775
01:30:36,791 --> 01:30:39,541
other with other countries and and this

776
01:30:39,541 --> 01:30:42,416
is extremely important data. You know,

777
01:30:42,416 --> 01:30:44,000
it's it's funny, I was I was watching a TV show and I know the same way we also watched it, but we're also going to practice it today.

778
01:30:44,041 --> 01:30:45,875
and I know this is fictional show,

779
01:30:45,875 --> 01:30:51,250
but it kind of demonstrated a point

780
01:30:51,833 --> 01:30:53,666
of how important data is.

781
01:30:53,958 --> 01:30:55,333
And it's a show called High Surf.

782
01:30:55,500 --> 01:30:56,625
It's like a rescue show.

783
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:58,458
It's obviously very fictional.

784
01:30:58,458 --> 01:30:59,333
It's based in Hawaii.

785
01:30:59,333 --> 01:31:00,833
I'm about to go to Hawaii next week.

786
01:31:01,250 --> 01:31:02,416
So I decided, actually by

787
01:31:02,416 --> 01:31:05,500
the time this is published,

788
01:31:05,500 --> 01:31:06,708
I'll be in Hawaii, but

789
01:31:06,708 --> 01:31:08,166
I wanted to get ready.

790
01:31:08,166 --> 01:31:09,250
I wanted to see what it was like and

791
01:31:09,250 --> 01:31:09,958
everything like that.

792
01:31:09,958 --> 01:31:11,000
So obviously I've got a

793
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:11,958
very different illusion

794
01:31:11,958 --> 01:31:13,125
of what it really is.

795
01:31:13,125 --> 01:31:15,166
But there was an episode where they were

796
01:31:15,166 --> 01:31:16,291
expecting like a big

797
01:31:16,291 --> 01:31:17,250
swell, like a tsunami, a

798
01:31:17,250 --> 01:31:18,500
potential tsunami warning.

799
01:31:18,916 --> 01:31:19,791
And they were looking at

800
01:31:19,791 --> 01:31:21,958
three buoys is North Shore, Oahu.

801
01:31:21,958 --> 01:31:22,791
And they were looking at three

802
01:31:22,791 --> 01:31:24,791
buoys that were very far apart

803
01:31:24,791 --> 01:31:26,750
from each other and like hours apart

804
01:31:26,750 --> 01:31:28,458
where the swell based on,

805
01:31:28,458 --> 01:31:29,875
but they knew the height of the swell

806
01:31:29,875 --> 01:31:30,916
after every time it hit

807
01:31:30,916 --> 01:31:33,000
the buoy, they knew the speed of the

808
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:33,958
swell, how fast it was

809
01:31:33,958 --> 01:31:35,458
coming and they were be able to detect

810
01:31:35,458 --> 01:31:37,583
the change in time and

811
01:31:37,583 --> 01:31:39,916
the size and the power of it

812
01:31:39,916 --> 01:31:41,583
when it by the time it hit the

813
01:31:41,625 --> 01:31:44,666
next buoy, whether to go from a warning

814
01:31:44,666 --> 01:31:46,666
to this is a serious threat

815
01:31:46,875 --> 01:31:48,541
or to say, hey, you know what, this is

816
01:31:48,541 --> 01:31:49,416
not a warning anymore.

817
01:31:49,791 --> 01:31:50,458
We're OK.

818
01:31:51,041 --> 01:31:52,583
But the hours in between that

819
01:31:52,583 --> 01:31:54,750
to try and get that data was

820
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:55,916
very nerve wracking.

821
01:31:55,916 --> 01:31:56,750
They didn't know what to do.

822
01:31:56,750 --> 01:31:57,916
And obviously, you know, it's a show.

823
01:31:57,916 --> 01:31:59,333
So they go into all the emotional parts,

824
01:31:59,333 --> 01:32:00,625
but it kind of took you

825
01:32:00,625 --> 01:32:04,208
through what the different parts of each

826
01:32:04,208 --> 01:32:06,208
different part, federal state

827
01:32:06,208 --> 01:32:08,000
and even local governments were taking

828
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:09,250
and actions they were taking.

829
01:32:09,500 --> 01:32:10,416
And they were relying

830
01:32:10,416 --> 01:32:12,041
on this data to come in.

831
01:32:12,500 --> 01:32:14,250
Imagine if one, if we didn't have those

832
01:32:14,250 --> 01:32:16,125
buoys, imagine if we didn't have the

833
01:32:16,125 --> 01:32:17,500
drifters that were along that may have

834
01:32:17,500 --> 01:32:18,541
been in the water at the time that

835
01:32:18,541 --> 01:32:20,625
could tell even in between what that is

836
01:32:20,625 --> 01:32:22,000
or even verify that

837
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:23,541
data or even satellite.

838
01:32:23,750 --> 01:32:25,416
You know, we have radar set that can tell

839
01:32:25,416 --> 01:32:27,250
wave height and whether there's

840
01:32:27,250 --> 01:32:29,041
something big coming or, you know, you

841
01:32:29,041 --> 01:32:30,333
can see a boat in the water or something

842
01:32:30,333 --> 01:32:32,541
like that. There's so many pieces of this

843
01:32:32,541 --> 01:32:34,875
data that becomes such an important role.

844
01:32:35,750 --> 01:32:37,458
But it also is like there's so much data

845
01:32:37,458 --> 01:32:39,041
coming in that you need to

846
01:32:39,083 --> 01:32:40,375
interpret it properly.

847
01:32:40,666 --> 01:32:43,500
And that requires people with, you know,

848
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:44,583
scientific degrees in

849
01:32:44,583 --> 01:32:46,166
various science fields,

850
01:32:46,166 --> 01:32:47,958
you know, not only biology, but physics

851
01:32:47,958 --> 01:32:49,875
and chemistry and, you

852
01:32:49,875 --> 01:32:51,541
know, atmosphere and so forth

853
01:32:51,833 --> 01:32:54,000
that make the National Weather Service,

854
01:32:54,250 --> 01:32:56,250
NOAA, NASA, so, so important.

855
01:32:56,250 --> 01:32:57,833
Can you talk about some of the some of

856
01:32:57,833 --> 01:33:00,000
the roles that play into that and the

857
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:02,750
number of people that have to play

858
01:33:02,750 --> 01:33:04,875
over that role and be able to take in all

859
01:33:04,875 --> 01:33:06,041
this data and what

860
01:33:06,041 --> 01:33:08,125
requires that specialties?

861
01:33:08,875 --> 01:33:10,625
Yeah. And let me just mention, too, since

862
01:33:10,625 --> 01:33:12,208
you were talking about tsunamis, I mean,

863
01:33:12,208 --> 01:33:13,083
there are tsunami

864
01:33:13,083 --> 01:33:14,541
buoys around the oceans.

865
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:17,250
Right. There aren't enough. Right. And

866
01:33:17,250 --> 01:33:20,291
those tsunami buoys, some of them are far

867
01:33:20,291 --> 01:33:21,666
enough out that if an earthquake

868
01:33:21,666 --> 01:33:24,458
would happen between the buoy and the

869
01:33:24,458 --> 01:33:27,708
coast, you wouldn't detect it. Right. And

870
01:33:27,708 --> 01:33:30,000
and so and some of

871
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:32,500
those buoys need to be fixed

872
01:33:33,250 --> 01:33:35,583
because they're not working. And so

873
01:33:35,583 --> 01:33:39,708
that's why it takes a whole cadre of

874
01:33:39,708 --> 01:33:42,125
people to monitor the data.

875
01:33:42,333 --> 01:33:44,666
And when something is not reporting, you

876
01:33:44,666 --> 01:33:46,791
get out there to fix it. And in many

877
01:33:46,791 --> 01:33:49,416
cases already, for example, like within

878
01:33:49,416 --> 01:33:52,500
NOAA, they're already understaffed.

879
01:33:52,500 --> 01:33:54,291
And so they'll say, well, we're going to

880
01:33:54,291 --> 01:33:56,166
have to take a look at that buoy, you

881
01:33:56,166 --> 01:33:58,791
know, in six months, because we're not

882
01:33:58,791 --> 01:33:59,750
going to have this ship

883
01:33:59,750 --> 01:34:01,666
that we need to take out.

884
01:34:02,166 --> 01:34:04,541
And and we'll do a couple of other buoys

885
01:34:04,541 --> 01:34:06,375
at the same time. So they're not just

886
01:34:06,375 --> 01:34:07,333
going out to look at one

887
01:34:07,333 --> 01:34:08,375
buoy and then coming back.

888
01:34:08,416 --> 01:34:12,541
That's too expensive for one buoy. So you

889
01:34:12,541 --> 01:34:16,333
really do need a whole bunch of people

890
01:34:16,333 --> 01:34:17,708
that are monitoring this.

891
01:34:17,708 --> 01:34:20,291
I mean, few people can monitor, but you

892
01:34:20,291 --> 01:34:21,666
need a whole bunch to

893
01:34:21,666 --> 01:34:23,375
go out and fix. Yeah.

894
01:34:23,958 --> 01:34:25,833
And and some of these buoys just aren't

895
01:34:25,833 --> 01:34:28,250
breaking on their own. You know, illegal

896
01:34:28,250 --> 01:34:30,500
fishing, you know, they tie

897
01:34:30,500 --> 01:34:31,791
up to some of these buoys.

898
01:34:32,041 --> 01:34:34,833
And do these catches with their nets,

899
01:34:34,833 --> 01:34:37,291
which they shouldn't be doing. Right.

900
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:39,750
Others, you know, sometimes they're a

901
01:34:39,750 --> 01:34:42,500
haven for seals or sea lions and they

902
01:34:42,500 --> 01:34:44,541
climb up on there and, you know, they're

903
01:34:44,541 --> 01:34:46,250
like, hey, why do we have a 15 foot wave

904
01:34:46,250 --> 01:34:47,125
out there in the middle

905
01:34:47,125 --> 01:34:48,416
of a high pressure system?

906
01:34:48,416 --> 01:34:50,208
It shouldn't be happening. Go out there

907
01:34:50,208 --> 01:34:52,000
and see it. And it's like a mama seal

908
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,416
that made a home there and half a ton

909
01:34:54,416 --> 01:34:55,708
seal that back and forth.

910
01:34:55,750 --> 01:34:56,500
Yeah.

911
01:34:58,041 --> 01:35:00,625
You know, all sorts of things can happen.

912
01:35:00,875 --> 01:35:02,916
But but, you know, you're right, Andrew.

913
01:35:02,916 --> 01:35:05,083
I mean, the let's just take a look for a

914
01:35:05,083 --> 01:35:07,541
second at at the weather service.

915
01:35:07,833 --> 01:35:08,500
Right. You know, the

916
01:35:08,500 --> 01:35:10,208
National Weather Service, they have.

917
01:35:11,625 --> 01:35:14,666
One hundred and twenty two forecast

918
01:35:14,666 --> 01:35:18,333
offices around the nation. So that's

919
01:35:18,333 --> 01:35:22,625
include Alaska, Hawaii, Guam and the the

920
01:35:22,625 --> 01:35:24,625
the Kona's continental United States.

921
01:35:24,750 --> 01:35:28,875
They have six regional offices that help

922
01:35:28,875 --> 01:35:31,500
to coordinate those local offices.

923
01:35:32,375 --> 01:35:36,958
They have 13 river forecast centers that

924
01:35:36,958 --> 01:35:40,000
are focused on monitoring the rainfall

925
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:43,875
and river levels and also doing outreach

926
01:35:43,875 --> 01:35:46,333
to people to make help them understand

927
01:35:46,333 --> 01:35:48,541
how fast rivers can rise.

928
01:35:49,041 --> 01:35:50,833
I mean, you know, there are campsites all

929
01:35:50,833 --> 01:35:53,250
over the place and people have no idea.

930
01:35:53,791 --> 01:35:54,791
Oh, yeah, let's camp

931
01:35:54,791 --> 01:35:55,708
by the river over there.

932
01:35:55,750 --> 01:35:58,166
It's beautiful. But if there's a you

933
01:35:58,166 --> 01:36:02,083
know, three inch rainfall out just up

934
01:36:02,083 --> 01:36:04,375
river and they don't see any rain at all,

935
01:36:04,375 --> 01:36:05,750
they could be washed

936
01:36:05,750 --> 01:36:08,000
away in a matter of hours.

937
01:36:08,500 --> 01:36:10,125
So you need to have that kind of

938
01:36:10,125 --> 01:36:12,416
monitoring going on. They also have

939
01:36:12,416 --> 01:36:16,916
national centers, nine of them. So they

940
01:36:16,916 --> 01:36:19,125
have the the National Center for

941
01:36:19,125 --> 01:36:20,708
Environmental Prediction called NSEP.

942
01:36:20,750 --> 01:36:22,833
They do a lot of modeling and they're

943
01:36:22,833 --> 01:36:25,458
kind of the the parent center over all

944
01:36:25,458 --> 01:36:27,166
the other ones. They have the National

945
01:36:27,166 --> 01:36:30,291
Hurricane Center. They have the Weather

946
01:36:30,291 --> 01:36:31,541
Prediction Center in

947
01:36:31,541 --> 01:36:32,500
College Park, Maryland.

948
01:36:32,916 --> 01:36:36,250
Hurricane Center is in Miami. That's

949
01:36:36,250 --> 01:36:40,041
probably the most popular national center

950
01:36:40,041 --> 01:36:42,166
that the Weather Service has. They have

951
01:36:42,166 --> 01:36:43,708
the Aviation Weather Center.

952
01:36:44,416 --> 01:36:46,833
They're constantly focused on aviation

953
01:36:46,833 --> 01:36:49,500
and predicting turbulence. Clear air

954
01:36:49,500 --> 01:36:52,416
turbulence is so tough, right? They have

955
01:36:52,416 --> 01:36:54,750
the Climate Prediction Center. They're

956
01:36:54,750 --> 01:36:58,791
looking out beyond seven days and they're

957
01:36:58,791 --> 01:37:00,666
going into seasonal predictions.

958
01:37:01,083 --> 01:37:02,625
What does this spring look like? What

959
01:37:02,625 --> 01:37:04,875
does the summer look like? Helping to

960
01:37:04,875 --> 01:37:07,625
monitor and predict drought conditions,

961
01:37:07,625 --> 01:37:11,458
which are so critical for agriculture.

962
01:37:11,750 --> 01:37:15,041
They have the Storm Prediction Center in

963
01:37:15,041 --> 01:37:17,541
Norman, Oklahoma. They're focused on

964
01:37:17,541 --> 01:37:20,916
severe weather, tornado outbreaks, hail,

965
01:37:21,250 --> 01:37:24,291
hail damage, hail size, things like that.

966
01:37:25,166 --> 01:37:28,333
The Ocean Prediction Center. They focus

967
01:37:28,333 --> 01:37:30,666
on the ocean and getting products out to

968
01:37:30,666 --> 01:37:33,458
mariners so they know that big waves are

969
01:37:33,458 --> 01:37:34,875
headed their way or it's

970
01:37:34,875 --> 01:37:35,708
going to be treacherous.

971
01:37:35,750 --> 01:37:38,208
Here are advisories that we issue for the

972
01:37:38,208 --> 01:37:40,708
oceans. They have the National Water

973
01:37:40,708 --> 01:37:42,583
Center, which is down in Tuscaloosa,

974
01:37:42,583 --> 01:37:46,000
Alabama. It's a fairly new center, but

975
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:47,541
they're working on the National Water

976
01:37:47,541 --> 01:37:50,625
Model, modeling every stream and

977
01:37:50,625 --> 01:37:54,625
tributary in the in the nation and even

978
01:37:54,625 --> 01:37:55,458
in, you know, in Puerto

979
01:37:55,458 --> 01:37:57,708
Rico and Alaska and Hawaii.

980
01:37:57,750 --> 01:38:02,333
So they can see, OK, this sensor just

981
01:38:02,333 --> 01:38:04,541
measured an inch of rain falling and so

982
01:38:04,541 --> 01:38:06,416
did these other sensors close to it.

983
01:38:06,625 --> 01:38:08,458
Yeah, we're going to model what the

984
01:38:08,458 --> 01:38:10,833
downstream impacts are going to be so we

985
01:38:10,833 --> 01:38:13,541
can warn people that there's a danger if

986
01:38:13,541 --> 01:38:15,208
that's going to be any flooding.

987
01:38:15,750 --> 01:38:18,125
And then the last but not least, National

988
01:38:18,125 --> 01:38:20,875
Center is the Space Weather Prediction

989
01:38:20,875 --> 01:38:24,625
Center that's in Boulder, Colorado.

990
01:38:25,250 --> 01:38:27,916
They're monitoring the sun and the storms

991
01:38:27,916 --> 01:38:30,625
that come off the sun and what we call

992
01:38:30,625 --> 01:38:32,708
coronal mass ejections, right?

993
01:38:33,958 --> 01:38:35,833
We've had a lot of experience with those.

994
01:38:36,041 --> 01:38:39,708
I mean, the one last May 10th boy, the

995
01:38:39,708 --> 01:38:42,541
Aurora Borealis was visible down in

996
01:38:42,541 --> 01:38:44,625
Alabama and Florida and part of the

997
01:38:44,625 --> 01:38:47,208
Bahamas for crying out loud. Yeah, that

998
01:38:47,208 --> 01:38:49,916
was that was pretty pretty awesome. So I

999
01:38:49,916 --> 01:38:52,708
mean, you know, people say, well, that's

1000
01:38:52,708 --> 01:38:55,000
a lot of stuff. I tend to think

1001
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:57,458
sometimes, Andrew, that the people just

1002
01:38:57,458 --> 01:38:58,791
watch too many movies

1003
01:38:58,791 --> 01:39:01,708
and they think that.

1004
01:39:01,750 --> 01:39:06,000
Things are operated by AI and shouldn't

1005
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:08,000
one or two people be able to do these

1006
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:12,000
jobs and it's just not possible. It's not

1007
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:16,625
possible. You know, the impacts that

1008
01:39:16,625 --> 01:39:20,000
weather and climate events have had just

1009
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:23,333
on the United States alone. Yeah.

1010
01:39:23,750 --> 01:39:30,583
So since 1980, the nation has had the

1011
01:39:30,583 --> 01:39:36,125
United States has had 403 disasters that

1012
01:39:36,125 --> 01:39:39,916
each total one billion dollars or more.

1013
01:39:41,083 --> 01:39:45,208
So since 1980, right, that those

1014
01:39:45,208 --> 01:39:48,041
disasters have exceeded two point nine

1015
01:39:48,041 --> 01:39:50,958
trillion dollars in damage.

1016
01:39:53,000 --> 01:39:55,625
The investment could have been worse. It

1017
01:39:55,625 --> 01:39:57,000
could have been worse. These if they

1018
01:39:57,000 --> 01:39:59,416
weren't able to get like access to data

1019
01:39:59,416 --> 01:40:01,166
to understand where these storms are

1020
01:40:01,166 --> 01:40:03,875
coming from, predicting the levels of the

1021
01:40:03,875 --> 01:40:05,500
storms and so forth, right? Could have

1022
01:40:05,500 --> 01:40:08,000
been worse. No doubt. No doubt. And and

1023
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:09,000
you know, when you think of the

1024
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:11,416
investment that's needed for the National

1025
01:40:11,416 --> 01:40:13,666
Weather Service, yeah, and you boil it

1026
01:40:13,666 --> 01:40:15,083
down because the Weather Service

1027
01:40:15,083 --> 01:40:18,708
forecasts impact every person, right?

1028
01:40:18,750 --> 01:40:21,333
All the planes that are coming in and

1029
01:40:21,333 --> 01:40:22,708
bringing people in internationally,

1030
01:40:23,083 --> 01:40:27,708
domestically, transportation. If you boil

1031
01:40:27,708 --> 01:40:31,625
it down, it's for the price of like a Big

1032
01:40:31,625 --> 01:40:34,916
Mac or a Happy Meal, you know, per

1033
01:40:34,916 --> 01:40:38,791
American. It's like 10 bucks, 12 bucks

1034
01:40:38,791 --> 01:40:42,708
per person per year that

1035
01:40:42,708 --> 01:40:46,333
funds the operations of NOAA.

1036
01:40:47,083 --> 01:40:51,083
And so when you when you turn around and

1037
01:40:51,083 --> 01:40:56,250
you look at cuts and you might do cuts,

1038
01:40:56,791 --> 01:41:03,375
implement cuts randomly, you could cut

1039
01:41:03,375 --> 01:41:07,041
out the people who are hired to warn you

1040
01:41:07,041 --> 01:41:08,416
if a tornado is coming.

1041
01:41:10,291 --> 01:41:11,541
That's going to cost lives.

1042
01:41:12,666 --> 01:41:12,916
Yeah.

1043
01:41:13,666 --> 01:41:13,708
Yeah.

1044
01:41:13,750 --> 01:41:17,583
Yeah. And that's it's so important. It

1045
01:41:17,583 --> 01:41:24,625
like it. I don't understand the pushback

1046
01:41:24,625 --> 01:41:28,291
on this type of data and the pushback

1047
01:41:28,291 --> 01:41:29,625
that I'm talking about is over the last

1048
01:41:29,625 --> 01:41:31,958
month since the Trump administration has

1049
01:41:31,958 --> 01:41:34,166
taken over power and they've they're

1050
01:41:34,166 --> 01:41:35,708
Donald Trump's now the president.

1051
01:41:35,750 --> 01:41:38,875
Doge has become a thing. Elon Musk is

1052
01:41:38,875 --> 01:41:41,000
going into a number of different offices,

1053
01:41:41,500 --> 01:41:43,083
say, either either closing down the

1054
01:41:43,083 --> 01:41:45,166
entire department like he did with with

1055
01:41:45,166 --> 01:41:48,083
USAID, but also going into other

1056
01:41:48,083 --> 01:41:50,125
departments and, you know, just doing

1057
01:41:50,125 --> 01:41:53,625
mass cuts, not only to the people of the

1058
01:41:53,625 --> 01:41:54,791
public service that we just talked about

1059
01:41:54,791 --> 01:41:56,916
in terms of what it requires and the

1060
01:41:56,916 --> 01:41:57,875
people requires and

1061
01:41:57,875 --> 01:41:58,708
even being understaffed.

1062
01:41:58,750 --> 01:42:02,458
But they would cut just people randomly

1063
01:42:02,458 --> 01:42:05,541
and we're hearing stories by the day. You

1064
01:42:05,541 --> 01:42:07,041
know, at this point, the last story I

1065
01:42:07,041 --> 01:42:09,125
heard is, you know, Elon Musk sends a

1066
01:42:09,125 --> 01:42:11,208
mass email to a number of people in the

1067
01:42:11,208 --> 01:42:12,500
government saying, what have you done the

1068
01:42:12,500 --> 01:42:14,291
last five or the last five

1069
01:42:14,291 --> 01:42:15,208
things you did this week?

1070
01:42:15,541 --> 01:42:17,000
If you do not email me back, consider

1071
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:17,791
yourself a resident,

1072
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:18,708
consider it a resignation.

1073
01:42:18,791 --> 01:42:22,375
Not still not sure if that's true or not.

1074
01:42:22,875 --> 01:42:24,291
Like, you know, there's been a lot of

1075
01:42:24,291 --> 01:42:25,916
stuff that's been going around. But, you

1076
01:42:25,916 --> 01:42:29,208
know, talking to fellow colleagues in in

1077
01:42:29,208 --> 01:42:33,875
in NOAA at EPA, a number of different

1078
01:42:33,875 --> 01:42:36,083
departments, they've they're scared.

1079
01:42:36,458 --> 01:42:37,458
They're worried. They're worried for

1080
01:42:37,458 --> 01:42:38,375
their colleagues. They're worried for

1081
01:42:38,375 --> 01:42:40,708
themselves. So obviously there's that

1082
01:42:40,708 --> 01:42:42,541
portion of it. But there is this

1083
01:42:42,541 --> 01:42:47,583
fundamental attack against getting

1084
01:42:47,583 --> 01:42:47,708
information from the government.

1085
01:42:47,750 --> 01:42:48,208
They're worried about getting information

1086
01:42:48,208 --> 01:42:50,250
from the environment about the

1087
01:42:50,250 --> 01:42:53,083
environment to the point now where we've

1088
01:42:53,083 --> 01:42:55,291
seen a lot of cuts that have happened on

1089
01:42:55,291 --> 01:42:58,166
international programs. And when I this

1090
01:42:58,166 --> 01:42:59,500
is where I really want to

1091
01:42:59,500 --> 01:43:00,708
focus the rest of the episode.

1092
01:43:01,458 --> 01:43:03,041
And we've been kind of building up to it

1093
01:43:03,041 --> 01:43:04,333
is there have been cuts to any

1094
01:43:04,333 --> 01:43:07,083
international programs for Noah, the

1095
01:43:07,083 --> 01:43:08,458
national, which include the National

1096
01:43:08,458 --> 01:43:12,916
Weather Service in gathering data beyond

1097
01:43:12,916 --> 01:43:14,833
the borders of the US.

1098
01:43:16,750 --> 01:43:17,416
So I think that's a huge issue. And I

1099
01:43:17,416 --> 01:43:19,416
don't even know if if all the information

1100
01:43:19,416 --> 01:43:21,375
has been divulged in terms of what is

1101
01:43:21,375 --> 01:43:23,166
what part of those programs are going to

1102
01:43:23,166 --> 01:43:26,083
be cut. But can you give us just a little

1103
01:43:26,083 --> 01:43:28,500
bit of enlightenment of what this means

1104
01:43:28,500 --> 01:43:30,791
for weather predictions,

1105
01:43:30,791 --> 01:43:31,666
what this means for climate

1106
01:43:31,666 --> 01:43:32,958
predictions, all the different centers

1107
01:43:32,958 --> 01:43:35,416
that you mentioned? What does this mean

1108
01:43:35,416 --> 01:43:37,416
going forward for the US?

1109
01:43:39,750 --> 01:43:45,125
You know, Andrew, if if data flow was cut

1110
01:43:45,125 --> 01:43:48,958
off between internationally, you know,

1111
01:43:49,166 --> 01:43:51,541
between nations, it would seriously

1112
01:43:51,541 --> 01:43:54,250
impact the ability to forecast

1113
01:43:54,250 --> 01:43:58,666
accurately. I mean, you know, when I when

1114
01:43:58,666 --> 01:44:02,750
I give talks, I talk about the five day

1115
01:44:02,750 --> 01:44:06,291
forecast, or the seven day forecast.

1116
01:44:06,750 --> 01:44:08,666
The seven day forecast today is as

1117
01:44:08,666 --> 01:44:10,041
accurate as a three day

1118
01:44:10,041 --> 01:44:12,666
forecast was 25 years ago.

1119
01:44:13,666 --> 01:44:15,500
And so we're improving in our forecast

1120
01:44:15,500 --> 01:44:18,041
accuracy. There's a couple reasons for

1121
01:44:18,041 --> 01:44:20,416
that. We're having more sophisticated

1122
01:44:20,416 --> 01:44:22,458
physics based models that

1123
01:44:22,458 --> 01:44:23,833
are processing more data.

1124
01:44:24,875 --> 01:44:26,958
We're not using all the data that's being

1125
01:44:26,958 --> 01:44:29,125
collected yet. There are there are still

1126
01:44:29,125 --> 01:44:32,000
what's called data assimilation efforts

1127
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:34,916
to bring in different types of data, even

1128
01:44:34,916 --> 01:44:36,958
data from the private sector, if they're

1129
01:44:36,958 --> 01:44:38,625
launching, you know, satellites and are

1130
01:44:38,625 --> 01:44:40,333
collecting data and information.

1131
01:44:41,333 --> 01:44:45,833
But what it requires is a global data set

1132
01:44:45,833 --> 01:44:49,041
that you're reading into that model in

1133
01:44:49,041 --> 01:44:51,750
order to sufficiently initialize it.

1134
01:44:52,333 --> 01:44:53,833
Right. I mean, I don't know if you've

1135
01:44:53,833 --> 01:44:57,208
heard the term garbage in garbage out. If

1136
01:44:57,208 --> 01:45:01,833
you if you are putting in less data or

1137
01:45:01,833 --> 01:45:04,958
non quality control data because you laid

1138
01:45:04,958 --> 01:45:07,708
off people that are quality controlling.

1139
01:45:07,750 --> 01:45:13,041
Yeah, that means more bad data will get

1140
01:45:13,041 --> 01:45:17,250
into the model. And that means the output

1141
01:45:17,250 --> 01:45:20,958
is going to be bad and get worse as time

1142
01:45:20,958 --> 01:45:23,583
goes out. Right. So so

1143
01:45:23,583 --> 01:45:26,166
that's a that's an issue.

1144
01:45:26,875 --> 01:45:31,583
I have heard of some meetings, you know,

1145
01:45:31,583 --> 01:45:33,541
being delayed or canceled

1146
01:45:33,541 --> 01:45:37,500
internationally, but I haven't heard of

1147
01:45:37,500 --> 01:45:40,541
anything related to stopping the data

1148
01:45:40,541 --> 01:45:43,416
flow and the data sharing when it when it

1149
01:45:43,416 --> 01:45:46,500
comes to forecasting. Right. Because that

1150
01:45:46,500 --> 01:45:48,708
would be really impactful.

1151
01:45:48,750 --> 01:45:52,291
Yeah, not not only not only for the

1152
01:45:52,291 --> 01:45:54,583
average citizen that wants to make a

1153
01:45:54,583 --> 01:45:57,416
decision, but I mentioned all those

1154
01:45:57,416 --> 01:45:58,958
centers from the weather service, the

1155
01:45:58,958 --> 01:46:02,000
aviation prediction center, right? The

1156
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:03,708
Weather Center, Aviation Weather Center.

1157
01:46:04,833 --> 01:46:06,916
If you and there are meteorologists at

1158
01:46:06,916 --> 01:46:09,125
all these FAA locations, which are trying

1159
01:46:09,125 --> 01:46:09,958
to help, you know,

1160
01:46:09,958 --> 01:46:10,708
planes navigate safely.

1161
01:46:10,750 --> 01:46:15,125
There will be a there could be a lot of

1162
01:46:15,125 --> 01:46:18,333
impact to aviation, maybe more flights

1163
01:46:18,333 --> 01:46:21,583
canceled, more flights delayed, things

1164
01:46:21,583 --> 01:46:24,000
like that. They just can't handle the

1165
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:28,000
capacity without knowing what weather is

1166
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:30,166
in front of them, how long things are

1167
01:46:30,166 --> 01:46:33,125
going to last. So it would have it would

1168
01:46:33,125 --> 01:46:38,083
have a serious snowball effect on not

1169
01:46:38,083 --> 01:46:39,708
only the impact of people, but impact to the entire population.

1170
01:46:39,750 --> 01:46:41,833
And the impact to the entire economy

1171
01:46:41,833 --> 01:46:44,708
around the globe. All the economies

1172
01:46:44,708 --> 01:46:47,583
around the world would be impacted. Yeah.

1173
01:46:47,708 --> 01:46:50,250
And, you know, from what I've heard as

1174
01:46:50,250 --> 01:46:52,000
well as and I can I don't know if this is

1175
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:55,083
true or not. There have been some jobs

1176
01:46:55,083 --> 01:46:57,583
and programs cut and then they've been

1177
01:46:57,583 --> 01:47:00,083
reinstated, you know, or they hire back

1178
01:47:00,083 --> 01:47:01,958
to people because the government realizes

1179
01:47:01,958 --> 01:47:04,250
that these are some of these programs are

1180
01:47:04,250 --> 01:47:06,375
vital. Hopefully, hopefully.

1181
01:47:06,750 --> 01:47:09,458
If it hasn't been cut and it doesn't get

1182
01:47:09,458 --> 01:47:11,666
cut, people realize how important it is.

1183
01:47:11,666 --> 01:47:13,208
I mean, we've just discussed how

1184
01:47:13,208 --> 01:47:16,125
integrated knowing the data that comes in

1185
01:47:16,125 --> 01:47:18,000
for predicting weather is good for

1186
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:19,958
aviation, is good for fishing fleets, is

1187
01:47:19,958 --> 01:47:22,125
good for cruise liners. It's good for

1188
01:47:22,125 --> 01:47:24,500
just, you know, for farmers and anybody

1189
01:47:24,500 --> 01:47:28,250
who requires any type of natural input to

1190
01:47:28,250 --> 01:47:29,458
their products or services.

1191
01:47:29,750 --> 01:47:32,125
It is going to need this data. Like I

1192
01:47:32,125 --> 01:47:34,416
really don't see the need to cut any of

1193
01:47:34,416 --> 01:47:37,666
these programs because of how vital it

1194
01:47:37,666 --> 01:47:40,208
is. Now, one thing you've mentioned a

1195
01:47:40,208 --> 01:47:43,000
number of times in this episode is the

1196
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:44,708
fact that, you know, these

1197
01:47:44,708 --> 01:47:46,708
these models are so important.

1198
01:47:46,750 --> 01:47:50,458
Modeling is such an important part of the

1199
01:47:50,458 --> 01:47:53,250
weather service. Now, I have been hearing

1200
01:47:53,250 --> 01:47:56,708
a lot of people talk about how fraudulent

1201
01:47:56,708 --> 01:47:59,500
these models are, how inaccurate these

1202
01:47:59,500 --> 01:48:02,916
models are. That seems to be the driving

1203
01:48:02,916 --> 01:48:04,791
narrative when it comes to whether it be

1204
01:48:04,791 --> 01:48:06,125
climate models or weather

1205
01:48:06,125 --> 01:48:07,708
models or anything like that.

1206
01:48:09,125 --> 01:48:10,666
Obviously, they're not fraudulent. I'm

1207
01:48:10,666 --> 01:48:12,500
joking here, but this is what we hear and

1208
01:48:12,500 --> 01:48:14,291
you've been hearing it too. Everybody's

1209
01:48:14,291 --> 01:48:15,625
been talking about from government

1210
01:48:15,625 --> 01:48:17,208
officials like new government officials

1211
01:48:17,208 --> 01:48:19,958
all the way down to just the the person,

1212
01:48:19,958 --> 01:48:21,291
the common person on the street, just

1213
01:48:21,291 --> 01:48:21,708
being like these are frauds.

1214
01:48:21,750 --> 01:48:24,125
Every time I mentioned, you know, climate

1215
01:48:24,125 --> 01:48:26,625
change, I did an episode about the cuts

1216
01:48:26,625 --> 01:48:28,166
to no one talking about the weather

1217
01:48:28,166 --> 01:48:30,458
service and everybody's saying no one

1218
01:48:30,458 --> 01:48:32,416
sold out and took money.

1219
01:48:32,958 --> 01:48:35,833
And NASA did the same thing to continue

1220
01:48:35,833 --> 01:48:38,416
the climate fraudulent sort of things and

1221
01:48:38,416 --> 01:48:40,458
all these fraudulent models. None of them

1222
01:48:40,458 --> 01:48:41,708
are true. Of course, none of them provide

1223
01:48:41,708 --> 01:48:43,750
evidence about how untrue they were or

1224
01:48:43,750 --> 01:48:44,791
how fraudulent they were.

1225
01:48:45,750 --> 01:48:48,375
But this seems to be the narrative of a

1226
01:48:48,375 --> 01:48:51,416
lot of people. And I don't think it's

1227
01:48:51,416 --> 01:48:54,000
shared just by one party or another. I

1228
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:55,625
think there's a lot of people who think

1229
01:48:55,625 --> 01:48:57,750
that these models are fraudulent.

1230
01:48:58,708 --> 01:49:00,500
Dave, you've you've discussed this a

1231
01:49:00,500 --> 01:49:02,958
number of times, not only on this program

1232
01:49:02,958 --> 01:49:05,083
when you came on with the wonderful Alan

1233
01:49:05,083 --> 01:49:07,166
Pragler about your book, Megalodons,

1234
01:49:07,166 --> 01:49:08,166
Mermaids and Climate Change.

1235
01:49:08,750 --> 01:49:10,375
There is a constant battle of

1236
01:49:10,375 --> 01:49:12,125
misinformation when it comes to science,

1237
01:49:12,125 --> 01:49:13,500
especially when it comes to weather,

1238
01:49:13,500 --> 01:49:14,916
climate change, prediction models and

1239
01:49:14,916 --> 01:49:17,083
everything like that. How do you combat

1240
01:49:17,083 --> 01:49:20,041
this? How do you say, no, these aren't

1241
01:49:20,041 --> 01:49:20,791
fraudulent? How do you

1242
01:49:20,791 --> 01:49:21,958
prove that they're not?

1243
01:49:22,916 --> 01:49:24,333
Well, I think, you know, that's it's

1244
01:49:24,333 --> 01:49:26,291
always an important conversation to have

1245
01:49:26,291 --> 01:49:28,708
because, you know, weather and observing

1246
01:49:28,708 --> 01:49:32,000
and, you know, predicting is very

1247
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:35,916
complex, right? It's a it's a high order

1248
01:49:35,916 --> 01:49:38,666
magnitude of complexity and

1249
01:49:38,666 --> 01:49:40,375
it's it's not for everybody.

1250
01:49:40,791 --> 01:49:44,083
Um, and so what people want to hear is

1251
01:49:44,083 --> 01:49:46,666
it's going to be sunny in 74 four days

1252
01:49:46,666 --> 01:49:50,000
out, you know, and the predictability of

1253
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:53,916
the atmosphere is is not that accurate

1254
01:49:53,916 --> 01:49:57,666
when you have to go out 5, 10, 15 days

1255
01:49:57,666 --> 01:50:00,541
and try to give somebody a what we call a

1256
01:50:00,541 --> 01:50:02,250
deterministic forecast.

1257
01:50:02,750 --> 01:50:03,291
And that's what they're saying. They're

1258
01:50:03,291 --> 01:50:05,666
determining it's going to be 74 with a

1259
01:50:05,666 --> 01:50:08,500
West wind at 3 miles an hour. And then

1260
01:50:08,500 --> 01:50:11,333
they remember that. So, so what happens

1261
01:50:11,333 --> 01:50:14,125
with a lot of folks who, you know, and

1262
01:50:14,125 --> 01:50:15,916
I've had it too, you know, people say,

1263
01:50:15,916 --> 01:50:18,958
what do you do? I'm a meteorologist. I

1264
01:50:18,958 --> 01:50:21,875
wish I could be right 50% of the time and

1265
01:50:21,875 --> 01:50:23,416
still get paid. Right?

1266
01:50:26,750 --> 01:50:27,125
So, you know, I think it's always pops

1267
01:50:27,125 --> 01:50:30,500
up. Yeah. But by the way, major leaguers

1268
01:50:30,500 --> 01:50:32,041
make it into the Hall of Fame with less

1269
01:50:32,041 --> 01:50:34,750
than a 300 batting average. Hey, yeah,

1270
01:50:34,750 --> 01:50:36,541
that's a good point. I like to make

1271
01:50:36,541 --> 01:50:38,833
millions and meteorologists don't make

1272
01:50:38,833 --> 01:50:41,458
millions. That's for sure. Exactly. But

1273
01:50:41,458 --> 01:50:43,708
when you when you talk about forecasting

1274
01:50:43,708 --> 01:50:47,958
and people not believing. Um, if if if

1275
01:50:47,958 --> 01:50:50,166
they're serious about wanting to

1276
01:50:50,166 --> 01:50:54,708
understand how models work and, you know,

1277
01:50:54,708 --> 01:50:55,708
I have the saying that every model works.

1278
01:50:55,750 --> 01:50:58,333
And that every model is wrong. Right?

1279
01:50:58,333 --> 01:51:02,083
It's just how much? Yeah. How wrong are

1280
01:51:02,083 --> 01:51:05,958
they and models the way I grew up and

1281
01:51:05,958 --> 01:51:09,541
studied and I used to work at a as a when

1282
01:51:09,541 --> 01:51:11,166
I was a student at University of

1283
01:51:11,166 --> 01:51:13,291
Maryland, I would work. I had a job at

1284
01:51:13,291 --> 01:51:15,458
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. I

1285
01:51:15,458 --> 01:51:16,791
worked in the global modeling and

1286
01:51:16,791 --> 01:51:20,208
simulation division where we I assisted

1287
01:51:20,208 --> 01:51:22,250
scientists and satellite retrievals to

1288
01:51:22,250 --> 01:51:23,333
see if satellite data

1289
01:51:23,333 --> 01:51:24,708
could improve models.

1290
01:51:24,750 --> 01:51:31,000
Right. And and so I think that some

1291
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:34,583
people just don't understand that we need

1292
01:51:34,583 --> 01:51:37,333
those observing systems to go into a

1293
01:51:37,333 --> 01:51:40,958
model and what models give us is

1294
01:51:40,958 --> 01:51:44,625
guidance. They give the meteorologists

1295
01:51:44,625 --> 01:51:47,541
guidance. Yeah. Right. It's like, okay,

1296
01:51:47,541 --> 01:51:50,000
it looks like this low is going to move

1297
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:52,791
along the south and come up and intensify

1298
01:51:52,791 --> 01:51:54,708
and we might have, you know, a lot of people are going to be

1299
01:51:54,750 --> 01:51:56,875
like, you know, six to ten inches of snow

1300
01:51:56,875 --> 01:51:58,833
because of that and the winds are going

1301
01:51:58,833 --> 01:52:02,250
to get really strong. The model and there

1302
01:52:02,250 --> 01:52:06,583
are a lot of models out there. So many so

1303
01:52:06,583 --> 01:52:10,083
now that they pull them together in

1304
01:52:10,083 --> 01:52:13,000
what's called an ensemble. Right. An

1305
01:52:13,000 --> 01:52:14,791
ensemble is a whole bunch of things

1306
01:52:14,791 --> 01:52:16,416
coming together, right? Just like a

1307
01:52:16,416 --> 01:52:18,000
outfit, you know, you've got a whole

1308
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:21,041
ensemble together. In modeling, an

1309
01:52:21,041 --> 01:52:22,375
ensemble might have

1310
01:52:22,375 --> 01:52:24,291
50 members which means

1311
01:52:24,750 --> 01:52:26,500
different models, all with different

1312
01:52:26,500 --> 01:52:28,750
physics, tweaks, things

1313
01:52:28,750 --> 01:52:31,250
like that. Yeah. And then they average

1314
01:52:31,250 --> 01:52:32,833
that out and bring out a

1315
01:52:32,833 --> 01:52:38,000
new forecast. And so that is, it's

1316
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:39,500
hopeful that an ensemble

1317
01:52:39,625 --> 01:52:43,250
forecast is more accurate than any

1318
01:52:43,250 --> 01:52:46,250
individual model. And so

1319
01:52:47,125 --> 01:52:49,708
when it comes down to people, I think

1320
01:52:49,708 --> 01:52:51,000
even over the years,

1321
01:52:51,416 --> 01:52:52,125
thinking that weather

1322
01:52:52,125 --> 01:52:53,833
forecasting has not gotten any

1323
01:52:53,916 --> 01:52:55,125
more accurate, it has gotten

1324
01:52:55,125 --> 01:52:57,916
worse. It's because let's say,

1325
01:52:57,916 --> 01:52:59,208
for example, let's go back to that

1326
01:52:59,208 --> 01:53:01,833
question. When the lady

1327
01:53:01,833 --> 01:53:04,166
called me when I was at NBC in Washington

1328
01:53:04,166 --> 01:53:05,875
in the 90s and said,

1329
01:53:06,208 --> 01:53:08,375
you guys are so accurate. What weather

1330
01:53:08,375 --> 01:53:09,375
she said, do you have

1331
01:53:09,375 --> 01:53:12,625
scheduled? Yeah, six months from now.

1332
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:14,458
Well, first, we don't

1333
01:53:14,458 --> 01:53:16,500
schedule. No, we can look at

1334
01:53:16,500 --> 01:53:17,958
climatology and see what it

1335
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:23,375
might be. But what they do is if like,

1336
01:53:23,375 --> 01:53:25,916
for example, you're on

1337
01:53:25,916 --> 01:53:29,166
the way to Hawaii and you look at the

1338
01:53:29,166 --> 01:53:31,625
forecast last week. Yes,

1339
01:53:31,625 --> 01:53:33,083
you say, oh, it's going to be look at

1340
01:53:33,083 --> 01:53:34,541
that beautiful wind at

1341
01:53:34,541 --> 01:53:36,166
two miles an hour coming off. It's going

1342
01:53:36,166 --> 01:53:38,541
to be 81 degrees. That

1343
01:53:38,625 --> 01:53:41,416
is awesome. And you don't look at the

1344
01:53:41,416 --> 01:53:43,125
forecast again until

1345
01:53:43,250 --> 01:53:46,041
you're coming in for a landing. Right?

1346
01:53:46,250 --> 01:53:47,291
Right. So that might be

1347
01:53:47,291 --> 01:53:50,000
seven, 10 days. And so what

1348
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:52,250
people tend to do, which you

1349
01:53:52,250 --> 01:53:54,125
know, it's not a crime. It's

1350
01:53:54,125 --> 01:53:56,416
right, but natural behavior is

1351
01:53:56,416 --> 01:54:00,208
you anchor to that forecast. It's called

1352
01:54:00,208 --> 01:54:01,916
anchoring. Yeah. And

1353
01:54:02,416 --> 01:54:04,708
if you have a special event, a wedding

1354
01:54:04,708 --> 01:54:06,625
next Saturday, oh, you

1355
01:54:06,625 --> 01:54:07,958
know what to plan. Well, I got a plan

1356
01:54:07,958 --> 01:54:09,125
what to wear. What's Oh,

1357
01:54:09,166 --> 01:54:10,708
it looks like 76 and sunny

1358
01:54:10,708 --> 01:54:13,416
seven days ahead of time. And

1359
01:54:13,416 --> 01:54:15,250
you don't look at the forecast again

1360
01:54:15,250 --> 01:54:17,000
because you think that's

1361
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:19,125
what it's going to be. Then you get there

1362
01:54:19,125 --> 01:54:20,250
and it's an easterly

1363
01:54:20,250 --> 01:54:23,500
wind. It's 52 degrees. There's drizzle.

1364
01:54:23,833 --> 01:54:24,708
You're like, what the

1365
01:54:24,708 --> 01:54:26,500
heck? Those forecasters are

1366
01:54:26,500 --> 01:54:29,375
never right. My app stinks, you

1367
01:54:29,375 --> 01:54:33,833
know, and so you have to keep updated on

1368
01:54:33,833 --> 01:54:35,333
the weather when the

1369
01:54:35,416 --> 01:54:38,166
forecast, um, you know, gets closer,

1370
01:54:38,625 --> 01:54:41,000
right? When that special day gets

1371
01:54:41,041 --> 01:54:43,750
closer, you need to monitor the forecast.

1372
01:54:44,291 --> 01:54:45,208
Why do you have to do

1373
01:54:45,208 --> 01:54:50,208
that? Because observations come in that

1374
01:54:50,208 --> 01:54:51,958
detect certain things

1375
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:55,416
happening, maybe 5,000 miles

1376
01:54:55,416 --> 01:54:57,958
away. Yeah. That might kick off

1377
01:54:57,958 --> 01:55:00,416
the model and say, Oh, wait a minute,

1378
01:55:00,416 --> 01:55:01,375
something's up. This

1379
01:55:01,500 --> 01:55:03,500
might develop into a low pressure system

1380
01:55:03,500 --> 01:55:06,875
down, down wind and develop

1381
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:09,791
into something that could be significant

1382
01:55:09,791 --> 01:55:11,541
or impact the forecast.

1383
01:55:12,208 --> 01:55:15,083
So just one little, little mentioned,

1384
01:55:15,375 --> 01:55:18,000
there was a professor called named

1385
01:55:18,041 --> 01:55:23,958
Edward Lorentz, who was at MIT and he

1386
01:55:23,958 --> 01:55:27,375
wrote a paper called, um, could

1387
01:55:27,458 --> 01:55:30,583
the flap of a butterfly's wings in Brazil

1388
01:55:30,583 --> 01:55:33,458
cause a tornado in Texas?

1389
01:55:35,375 --> 01:55:37,125
And that paper was all about what's

1390
01:55:37,125 --> 01:55:40,500
called chaos theory. Yeah. Can one little

1391
01:55:40,500 --> 01:55:45,208
disturbance grow and grow and kick off

1392
01:55:45,208 --> 01:55:47,625
other things that then create

1393
01:55:48,083 --> 01:55:50,708
something else that leads to a severe

1394
01:55:50,708 --> 01:55:53,333
weather outbreak? And it's, you know,

1395
01:55:53,375 --> 01:55:56,625
the basis of modeling really, you know,

1396
01:55:56,916 --> 01:55:59,916
how can you predict chaos? That's

1397
01:55:59,916 --> 01:56:02,583
why the forecast is very tough. You know,

1398
01:56:02,583 --> 01:56:03,875
we're pretty good out to seven

1399
01:56:03,875 --> 01:56:06,291
days, but these apps, they're all

1400
01:56:06,291 --> 01:56:08,625
automated. They're using one model.

1401
01:56:09,250 --> 01:56:11,125
Uh, they're giving numbers to make it

1402
01:56:11,125 --> 01:56:13,541
look like they're more accurate. Uh,

1403
01:56:13,625 --> 01:56:17,708
I have a daughter that tells me, Dad, why

1404
01:56:17,708 --> 01:56:19,125
is it snowing? My app said it was

1405
01:56:19,166 --> 01:56:21,666
going to be sunny, you know, and I'd look

1406
01:56:21,666 --> 01:56:23,083
at it, look at the radar and say, oh,

1407
01:56:23,083 --> 01:56:24,625
it's just a little flurry moving through.

1408
01:56:24,875 --> 01:56:27,500
But you know, I guess your app didn't say

1409
01:56:27,500 --> 01:56:30,083
that, you know, exactly. We, we depend on

1410
01:56:30,083 --> 01:56:32,458
it so much. Right. Exactly. Right.

1411
01:56:32,500 --> 01:56:33,875
You're yeah, you're right. It comes to

1412
01:56:33,875 --> 01:56:36,375
you because it's just so darn convenient

1413
01:56:36,375 --> 01:56:37,541
to be able to look at

1414
01:56:37,541 --> 01:56:39,375
something and get an answer.

1415
01:56:39,916 --> 01:56:42,166
But it doesn't mean that answer is

1416
01:56:42,166 --> 01:56:45,375
correct. And so, uh, when you asked about

1417
01:56:45,375 --> 01:56:46,500
how do you battle

1418
01:56:46,500 --> 01:56:49,041
that misinformation, um,

1419
01:56:49,458 --> 01:56:52,458
you just do it by engaging people where

1420
01:56:52,458 --> 01:56:55,750
they are. We, you know, Ellen Prager and

1421
01:56:55,750 --> 01:57:00,958
I, we love engaging people when they want

1422
01:57:00,958 --> 01:57:03,500
to complain about the weather or the

1423
01:57:03,500 --> 01:57:05,916
ocean atmosphere or whatever.

1424
01:57:06,500 --> 01:57:08,166
And we say, well, what, you know, what's

1425
01:57:08,166 --> 01:57:10,750
your beef? Yeah. You know, what's going

1426
01:57:10,750 --> 01:57:12,708
on? And they say, well, it's just, you

1427
01:57:12,708 --> 01:57:14,833
know, all this talk about climate change.

1428
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:17,625
It's just not, you know, it doesn't mean

1429
01:57:17,625 --> 01:57:19,791
anything. It's all made up. So scientists

1430
01:57:19,791 --> 01:57:22,458
can make a lot of money and we don't make

1431
01:57:22,458 --> 01:57:23,625
a lot of money. What?

1432
01:57:24,583 --> 01:57:26,875
I got into is to make a lot of money. How

1433
01:57:26,875 --> 01:57:28,500
come I'm not making a lot of money here,

1434
01:57:28,500 --> 01:57:29,833
Dave? What's going on?

1435
01:57:31,041 --> 01:57:33,833
I know. I know. Maybe, maybe if the

1436
01:57:33,833 --> 01:57:36,125
currency was, you know, slaps on the back

1437
01:57:36,125 --> 01:57:41,416
or something, you know, but so, you know,

1438
01:57:41,416 --> 01:57:43,750
what, what, what we do is we

1439
01:57:43,750 --> 01:57:44,916
say, well, what, what have you

1440
01:57:45,000 --> 01:57:47,125
noticed over the years? What's, you know,

1441
01:57:47,375 --> 01:57:49,500
what do you do? Oh, I'm a farmer. I'm a

1442
01:57:49,500 --> 01:57:52,166
lobsterman. I'm a fisherman. Well, have

1443
01:57:52,166 --> 01:57:53,958
you noticed anything? It's like, yeah,

1444
01:57:53,958 --> 01:57:55,916
there's no, the fish are all South, you

1445
01:57:55,916 --> 01:57:57,750
know, or the fish are going further

1446
01:57:57,750 --> 01:57:59,541
North, you know, and we have to go

1447
01:57:59,541 --> 01:58:01,833
further and use more fuel to get them.

1448
01:58:01,833 --> 01:58:04,041
Yeah. Oh, well, why do you think they

1449
01:58:04,041 --> 01:58:06,291
might be going North? Are they being

1450
01:58:06,291 --> 01:58:10,250
chased by mean fish, you know, or, um,

1451
01:58:10,500 --> 01:58:10,875
maybe they're

1452
01:58:10,875 --> 01:58:12,666
sensitive to temperature. Yeah.

1453
01:58:13,541 --> 01:58:16,041
You know, and that temperature is

1454
01:58:16,041 --> 01:58:19,041
warming. Yeah. And there's a reason that

1455
01:58:19,041 --> 01:58:20,750
temperature is warming. And so you, you

1456
01:58:20,750 --> 01:58:23,500
know, you can take them down a path that

1457
01:58:23,500 --> 01:58:26,208
they're, they're cool with. We're not

1458
01:58:26,208 --> 01:58:28,125
showing any differential equations. We're

1459
01:58:28,125 --> 01:58:30,458
not showing any, you know, integrals.

1460
01:58:31,166 --> 01:58:35,458
We're just saying, look, animals aren't

1461
01:58:35,458 --> 01:58:37,166
dumb. They're going to go where the food

1462
01:58:37,166 --> 01:58:40,000
is. And if the temperature changes and

1463
01:58:40,000 --> 01:58:41,583
their food goes North,

1464
01:58:42,041 --> 01:58:42,666
they're going to go north.

1465
01:58:42,666 --> 01:58:44,916
Right. And it's all because the

1466
01:58:44,916 --> 01:58:47,666
temperature is rising. And it's a very

1467
01:58:47,666 --> 01:58:51,541
simple concept. If you break it debt,

1468
01:58:52,083 --> 01:58:53,875
excuse me, break it down to that. Yeah.

1469
01:58:53,875 --> 01:58:58,833
That, um, you know, we have, we have not

1470
01:58:58,833 --> 01:59:04,500
had, um, any dismissive people that we've

1471
01:59:04,500 --> 01:59:09,000
engaged in conversations with. Um, when

1472
01:59:09,000 --> 01:59:11,375
we just talk to them about what they do

1473
01:59:11,375 --> 01:59:12,666
and, and, and what have they done?

1474
01:59:12,666 --> 01:59:14,708
What are they, what are they saying? And,

1475
01:59:14,708 --> 01:59:17,166
you know, just, I mean, one, one last

1476
01:59:17,166 --> 01:59:19,791
one, we were in Florida last week, we

1477
01:59:19,791 --> 01:59:23,916
gave some talks about our book. Um, one

1478
01:59:23,916 --> 01:59:25,833
was at the Harbor Branch oceanographic

1479
01:59:25,833 --> 01:59:28,500
Institute. Uh, and the other one was the

1480
01:59:28,500 --> 01:59:31,625
Florida oceanographic society. Uh, they

1481
01:59:31,625 --> 01:59:33,000
both said they were, they were both

1482
01:59:33,000 --> 01:59:35,541
record attendance, which was awesome.

1483
01:59:35,750 --> 01:59:36,416
That was great hearing.

1484
01:59:36,666 --> 01:59:39,958
Um, but we were sitting, you know, uh, at

1485
01:59:39,958 --> 01:59:42,333
the, uh, hotel and there was a guy

1486
01:59:42,333 --> 01:59:43,791
sitting there and you know, we were just

1487
01:59:43,791 --> 01:59:45,875
talking to him and he was, he ended up

1488
01:59:45,875 --> 01:59:48,500
these windsurfs and he windsurfs on those

1489
01:59:48,500 --> 01:59:50,916
really cool new windsurf boards that

1490
01:59:50,916 --> 01:59:52,708
raise up, you know, and they're like,

1491
01:59:52,708 --> 01:59:54,166
look like they're hovering above the

1492
01:59:54,166 --> 01:59:56,041
ground, but it's a little like, you know,

1493
01:59:56,041 --> 01:59:58,833
wing underneath. Yeah. So it's very cool.

1494
01:59:59,500 --> 02:00:02,166
And so, um, you know, he was just talking

1495
02:00:02,166 --> 02:00:03,791
to us and he was telling us about all

1496
02:00:03,791 --> 02:00:05,041
these things. What he's, he's really

1497
02:00:05,041 --> 02:00:05,666
there to build a house and he's building a house.

1498
02:00:06,708 --> 02:00:12,083
And he's like, oh, I got all these

1499
02:00:12,083 --> 02:00:14,000
permits, you know, I'm waiting on and all

1500
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:15,875
this stuff. And you're like, Oh, are you

1501
02:00:15,875 --> 02:00:18,416
building it to withstand any storms or

1502
02:00:18,416 --> 02:00:20,416
anything like that? And he's like, yeah,

1503
02:00:20,833 --> 02:00:23,583
you know, I'm just, you know, we're

1504
02:00:23,583 --> 02:00:25,708
putting in the standard stuff and you

1505
02:00:25,708 --> 02:00:27,291
know, I'm going to sell it. And you know,

1506
02:00:27,291 --> 02:00:28,625
I guess make a lot of money and all that

1507
02:00:28,625 --> 02:00:30,750
stuff. And we didn't, we didn't tell him

1508
02:00:30,750 --> 02:00:31,666
a thing about, you know, who we were, what we were doing and all that stuff. We just had a great time.

1509
02:00:31,708 --> 02:00:41,833
We understood that he wasn't really, um,

1510
02:00:41,833 --> 02:00:44,041
very knowledgeable about weather or the

1511
02:00:44,041 --> 02:00:47,500
oceans. And then he finally said, well,

1512
02:00:47,500 --> 02:00:50,500
what do you guys do? And, um, so we said,

1513
02:00:50,500 --> 02:00:52,125
well, you know, Ellen's a marine

1514
02:00:52,125 --> 02:00:52,666
scientist and I'm a meteorologist. Really? You know, and, and so we ended up talking and we said, yeah, we're here to give talks about it. But we wrote a book.

1515
02:00:52,708 --> 02:01:05,125
On atmosphere and oceans and climate

1516
02:01:05,125 --> 02:01:08,333
change and impacts and stuff like that.

1517
02:01:08,333 --> 02:01:10,125
And, and, you know, after about 45

1518
02:01:10,125 --> 02:01:14,500
minutes, he's like, I got a lot of

1519
02:01:14,500 --> 02:01:17,041
learning to do. You know, he said, I have

1520
02:01:17,041 --> 02:01:18,625
a lot of learning to do. And he said, I

1521
02:01:18,625 --> 02:01:19,666
got to tell you guys something. He said, you have all my respect. And I said, I got to tell you guys something.

1522
02:01:19,666 --> 02:01:22,916
And he said, you have all my respect. He

1523
02:01:22,916 --> 02:01:25,291
said, you heard me go on and on and on

1524
02:01:25,291 --> 02:01:27,000
and on. And you didn't interrupt me once

1525
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:28,916
and tell me, no, you're wrong because of

1526
02:01:28,916 --> 02:01:30,916
this or you're wrong because of that. You

1527
02:01:30,916 --> 02:01:34,083
just engaged in a conversation. And so he

1528
02:01:34,083 --> 02:01:36,375
took a picture of the book. And he said,

1529
02:01:36,375 --> 02:01:37,958
I'm going to get it. I'm going to read

1530
02:01:37,958 --> 02:01:41,583
it. And, you know, I hope to learn stuff

1531
02:01:41,583 --> 02:01:44,500
from it. And it's a great marketing plan.

1532
02:01:44,791 --> 02:01:46,375
Great. It doesn't have to be an argument.

1533
02:01:46,708 --> 02:01:48,875
You know, I think you're right. And I

1534
02:01:48,875 --> 02:01:51,666
think that's the the fundamental problem

1535
02:01:51,666 --> 02:01:53,916
that happens when we start having these

1536
02:01:53,916 --> 02:01:55,958
so-called discussions online. Yeah,

1537
02:01:57,958 --> 02:01:59,541
there, you know, there's this this

1538
02:01:59,541 --> 02:02:02,875
stereotype that scientists are elitists

1539
02:02:02,875 --> 02:02:05,291
that scientists think they know more than

1540
02:02:05,291 --> 02:02:06,791
everybody else. And they're just going to

1541
02:02:06,791 --> 02:02:08,833
tell you how it is. And to be honest,

1542
02:02:08,833 --> 02:02:11,083
there is some merit in that in the past,

1543
02:02:11,083 --> 02:02:12,833
where, you know, scientists would come

1544
02:02:12,833 --> 02:02:14,958
into a community or they would come into

1545
02:02:14,958 --> 02:02:15,666
a talk and they would say, this is the way to do it.

1546
02:02:15,708 --> 02:02:17,625
And I would say, this is how it is. If

1547
02:02:17,625 --> 02:02:19,083
somebody came up and said, well, I don't

1548
02:02:19,083 --> 02:02:21,000
believe it. And then it was like an

1549
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:23,000
argument back and forth. And I really

1550
02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:24,958
like your approach, where you just engage

1551
02:02:24,958 --> 02:02:26,833
in conversations with people. They are

1552
02:02:26,833 --> 02:02:30,500
people. And they want to enjoy a good

1553
02:02:30,500 --> 02:02:32,291
life. We all want to have a good life. We

1554
02:02:32,291 --> 02:02:34,375
all want to be safe. We want to survive.

1555
02:02:34,375 --> 02:02:36,625
We want to live as long as possible. We

1556
02:02:36,625 --> 02:02:38,208
don't want to see our houses flooded. We

1557
02:02:38,208 --> 02:02:39,833
don't want to see our houses burnt down.

1558
02:02:39,833 --> 02:02:42,541
Nobody wants to see that. And I feel

1559
02:02:42,541 --> 02:02:45,333
like, you know, all this stuff about

1560
02:02:45,666 --> 02:02:48,875
climate and the climate change and, you

1561
02:02:48,875 --> 02:02:50,500
know, sea level rise and so forth has

1562
02:02:50,500 --> 02:02:53,250
become so politicized and the political

1563
02:02:53,250 --> 02:02:56,375
divide has increased so much that it's

1564
02:02:56,375 --> 02:02:59,833
become argumentative. And to agree, I've

1565
02:02:59,833 --> 02:03:01,625
been doing that too. At times you get

1566
02:03:01,625 --> 02:03:03,291
emotional when you hear a response. You

1567
02:03:03,291 --> 02:03:05,416
take it personally. You're like, no, like

1568
02:03:05,416 --> 02:03:07,291
dummy. This is the way it is. And if you

1569
02:03:07,291 --> 02:03:09,541
respond that way, you're going to get the

1570
02:03:09,541 --> 02:03:12,291
same kind of response back in terms of

1571
02:03:12,291 --> 02:03:13,791
it's going to be aggressive. But if you

1572
02:03:13,791 --> 02:03:14,500
just kind of have a

1573
02:03:14,500 --> 02:03:15,666
conversation of like, what do you do? You

1574
02:03:15,666 --> 02:03:18,333
do for a living? Oh, I want to know how

1575
02:03:18,333 --> 02:03:20,625
do you notice like anything changed? Just

1576
02:03:20,625 --> 02:03:22,583
like this story with, you know, like the

1577
02:03:22,583 --> 02:03:24,708
fishermen like, OK, so have you noticed

1578
02:03:24,708 --> 02:03:27,166
your lobster being harder to catch or

1579
02:03:27,166 --> 02:03:28,708
like, what have you found out there?

1580
02:03:28,708 --> 02:03:30,750
Because obviously the fishing community

1581
02:03:30,750 --> 02:03:33,208
has been able to tell more than we've

1582
02:03:33,208 --> 02:03:34,333
been able to do as scientists because

1583
02:03:34,333 --> 02:03:35,875
they're out there all the time. The

1584
02:03:35,875 --> 02:03:37,416
indigenous communities have been able to

1585
02:03:37,416 --> 02:03:39,125
tell us more about what's been happening

1586
02:03:39,125 --> 02:03:41,583
to their land over hundreds, if not

1587
02:03:41,583 --> 02:03:44,000
thousands of years because they've been

1588
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:45,666
seeing it. And they are so in tune.

1589
02:03:45,666 --> 02:03:49,416
With the environment. Yeah, we need as a

1590
02:03:49,416 --> 02:03:51,875
scientific society, as you know,

1591
02:03:51,875 --> 02:03:53,958
scientists, scientists to listen more and

1592
02:03:53,958 --> 02:03:56,500
to engage in conversations instead of

1593
02:03:56,500 --> 02:03:59,375
just dictating what it needs to be. And I

1594
02:03:59,375 --> 02:04:01,250
really like that approach. And then you

1595
02:04:01,250 --> 02:04:03,291
offer a resource just like your book, the

1596
02:04:03,291 --> 02:04:04,750
megalodons, mermaids and climate change.

1597
02:04:04,958 --> 02:04:06,333
Like, offer that resource after and be

1598
02:04:06,333 --> 02:04:07,541
like, hey, if you if you want to know

1599
02:04:07,541 --> 02:04:09,541
more, yeah, there you go. It's right

1600
02:04:09,541 --> 02:04:13,000
there. And if you want to know more, you

1601
02:04:13,000 --> 02:04:14,583
can you can find out more. There's always

1602
02:04:14,583 --> 02:04:15,583
resources available.

1603
02:04:15,666 --> 02:04:17,416
And scientists are always willing to talk

1604
02:04:17,416 --> 02:04:19,541
as long as it's in a in a in a

1605
02:04:19,541 --> 02:04:21,791
comfortable situation, a calm situation

1606
02:04:21,791 --> 02:04:23,625
and nothing aggressive. Right.

1607
02:04:23,833 --> 02:04:25,500
Well, and you know, it gets back to our

1608
02:04:25,500 --> 02:04:26,958
conversation, too, at the beginning of

1609
02:04:26,958 --> 02:04:28,916
this, where, you know, scientists are not

1610
02:04:28,916 --> 02:04:31,208
the best communicators. Right. And I

1611
02:04:31,208 --> 02:04:35,708
remember back in 1995, 96 timeframe when

1612
02:04:35,708 --> 02:04:37,750
Dan Golden was the

1613
02:04:37,750 --> 02:04:40,041
administrator of NASA at the time.

1614
02:04:40,708 --> 02:04:43,666
And he was very big on scientists being

1615
02:04:43,666 --> 02:04:45,125
able to communicate the work that they're

1616
02:04:45,125 --> 02:04:48,041
doing so much. So he went to Goddard

1617
02:04:48,041 --> 02:04:50,833
Space Flight Center and gave a talk. And

1618
02:04:50,833 --> 02:04:53,458
he said to the scientists, if you can't

1619
02:04:53,458 --> 02:04:56,708
describe to me in three minutes what

1620
02:04:56,708 --> 02:04:58,750
you're doing and why it's important,

1621
02:04:59,291 --> 02:05:01,166
you're not going to get funded next year.

1622
02:05:01,541 --> 02:05:03,833
Right. And so, you know, that really

1623
02:05:03,833 --> 02:05:07,000
whoa, you know, we better learn how to

1624
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:08,208
describe what we're doing.

1625
02:05:08,291 --> 02:05:10,625
A lot of people know it as the elevator

1626
02:05:10,625 --> 02:05:13,416
speech. Yes. Yes. You've got to give that

1627
02:05:13,416 --> 02:05:16,541
elevator speech. But it is it's very

1628
02:05:16,541 --> 02:05:18,666
important. But what what I think is

1629
02:05:18,666 --> 02:05:21,583
really even more critical for scientists

1630
02:05:21,583 --> 02:05:24,250
is to listen. Mm hmm.

1631
02:05:24,750 --> 02:05:29,958
You know, scientists tend to want to get

1632
02:05:29,958 --> 02:05:33,041
all of their knowledge and their PhD

1633
02:05:33,041 --> 02:05:35,875
thesis out, you know, over a restaurant

1634
02:05:35,875 --> 02:05:40,250
table and or over a drink. And they're

1635
02:05:40,250 --> 02:05:42,458
not listening to what the person is

1636
02:05:42,458 --> 02:05:45,500
saying. And they're not gauging, you

1637
02:05:45,500 --> 02:05:47,250
know, the level of interest and or

1638
02:05:47,250 --> 02:05:48,250
education of the person that they're talking to.

1639
02:05:49,291 --> 02:05:52,250
And you should just really have a

1640
02:05:52,250 --> 02:05:54,208
conversation like you're not that

1641
02:05:54,208 --> 02:05:56,750
scientist, but just bring in pieces of

1642
02:05:56,750 --> 02:05:58,958
that science when it's relevant, you

1643
02:05:58,958 --> 02:06:02,083
know, when it means something. And and

1644
02:06:02,083 --> 02:06:04,666
that seems to be, you know, make a big

1645
02:06:04,666 --> 02:06:08,833
impact. And I think it gets, you know,

1646
02:06:08,833 --> 02:06:09,250
the conversation gets political.

1647
02:06:10,291 --> 02:06:14,250
I think many times when you start talking

1648
02:06:14,250 --> 02:06:17,208
about the causes of climate change,

1649
02:06:17,500 --> 02:06:20,166
right? What's causing it. And that in

1650
02:06:20,166 --> 02:06:24,166
itself is still a simple physics problem.

1651
02:06:24,875 --> 02:06:26,833
You know, it's you know, you could have a

1652
02:06:26,833 --> 02:06:28,750
closed container and you

1653
02:06:28,750 --> 02:06:30,250
could put more CO2 into it.

1654
02:06:30,291 --> 02:06:34,791
And it's going to heat up when the sun

1655
02:06:34,791 --> 02:06:37,041
hits it. Right. And your little

1656
02:06:37,041 --> 02:06:39,166
experiment is going to happen. It's a

1657
02:06:39,166 --> 02:06:41,291
physics problem. Yeah. So when you do it

1658
02:06:41,291 --> 02:06:43,750
on the globe, you know, more CO2 in the

1659
02:06:43,750 --> 02:06:46,250
atmosphere is causing the warmth. Yeah.

1660
02:06:46,541 --> 02:06:50,416
So that that's that's not that's not a

1661
02:06:50,416 --> 02:06:55,125
debatable piece of science itself. But

1662
02:06:55,125 --> 02:06:57,041
then when you get all how do you stop it?

1663
02:06:57,041 --> 02:06:58,291
How do you, you know, ease it? Can we ease out of it? You know, all the time.

1664
02:07:00,291 --> 02:07:02,333
That kind of stuff is when, you know,

1665
02:07:02,916 --> 02:07:05,791
things start to diverge. Yeah. But we're

1666
02:07:05,791 --> 02:07:10,333
really all about talking about impacts of

1667
02:07:10,333 --> 02:07:14,583
a changing climate and how is climate

1668
02:07:14,583 --> 02:07:19,500
change? Either energizing systems to

1669
02:07:19,500 --> 02:07:23,166
become more extreme or stacking the dice.

1670
02:07:23,166 --> 02:07:26,250
So those events happen more frequently.

1671
02:07:26,291 --> 02:07:30,541
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. You know, flooding in

1672
02:07:30,541 --> 02:07:33,958
Western North Carolina from Hurricane

1673
02:07:33,958 --> 02:07:36,833
Helene. Never seen anything like that

1674
02:07:36,833 --> 02:07:39,375
before in their history of recorded

1675
02:07:39,375 --> 02:07:42,000
history. Yeah. And they weren't prepared

1676
02:07:42,000 --> 02:07:43,791
for the damage either. Right. They

1677
02:07:43,791 --> 02:07:45,833
weren't prepared for it. And many people

1678
02:07:45,833 --> 02:07:47,791
said, Oh, you know, we're 26 feet above

1679
02:07:47,791 --> 02:07:49,916
the water. Look, it's just a stream down

1680
02:07:49,916 --> 02:07:51,208
there. Why do we have to worry about

1681
02:07:51,208 --> 02:07:52,708
that? And all of a sudden, the water

1682
02:07:52,708 --> 02:07:54,250
comes up 30 feet. Yeah.

1683
02:07:55,291 --> 02:07:58,583
So there's there's a lot of understanding

1684
02:07:58,583 --> 02:08:02,583
that needs to happen between people who

1685
02:08:02,583 --> 02:08:07,458
just normally have sunny weather and what

1686
02:08:07,458 --> 02:08:11,208
extremes could happen. Yeah. And whether

1687
02:08:11,208 --> 02:08:14,583
they want to accept that level of risk or

1688
02:08:14,583 --> 02:08:18,375
not. And so really with extreme weather

1689
02:08:18,375 --> 02:08:20,250
becoming more frequent.

1690
02:08:21,291 --> 02:08:22,833
People just have to look at where they

1691
02:08:22,833 --> 02:08:24,750
live, their neighborhoods and things like

1692
02:08:24,750 --> 02:08:26,666
that and say, OK, well, let's go through

1693
02:08:26,666 --> 02:08:29,333
some scenarios of what what could happen.

1694
02:08:29,750 --> 02:08:33,333
Yeah. I mean, you know, we live in an

1695
02:08:33,333 --> 02:08:36,541
area where it's really never flooded

1696
02:08:36,541 --> 02:08:39,500
major flood before. But we bought flood

1697
02:08:39,500 --> 02:08:42,500
insurance. Yeah. You know, and it's it's

1698
02:08:42,500 --> 02:08:44,583
cheap and it's going to it's going to

1699
02:08:44,583 --> 02:08:45,833
cover a lot of

1700
02:08:45,833 --> 02:08:48,250
property damage if it happens.

1701
02:08:48,916 --> 02:08:50,708
And I like that idea is just, you know,

1702
02:08:50,708 --> 02:08:52,875
you can move into an area. How much risk

1703
02:08:52,875 --> 02:08:54,750
are you willing to take? You know, are

1704
02:08:54,750 --> 02:08:57,458
you willing to move into an area that has

1705
02:08:57,458 --> 02:09:01,458
a potential to be, you know, exposed to

1706
02:09:01,458 --> 02:09:04,791
wildfires or to flooding, you know, and

1707
02:09:04,791 --> 02:09:05,958
may or may not have

1708
02:09:05,958 --> 02:09:07,416
insurance available for it.

1709
02:09:07,416 --> 02:09:09,666
Or it might be extremely expensive. Are

1710
02:09:09,666 --> 02:09:11,458
you willing to risk that? If you are,

1711
02:09:11,750 --> 02:09:13,333
that's your prerogative. You're allowed

1712
02:09:13,333 --> 02:09:14,333
to do that. So you're right.

1713
02:09:14,333 --> 02:09:15,250
You can go ahead and do that.

1714
02:09:15,291 --> 02:09:18,458
Unfortunately, that there's some areas

1715
02:09:18,458 --> 02:09:20,708
have higher risk than others. And if you

1716
02:09:20,708 --> 02:09:22,708
want to believe the models, you want to

1717
02:09:22,708 --> 02:09:24,791
believe the data, that's up to you. And

1718
02:09:24,791 --> 02:09:26,875
then you can avoid that. Nobody wants to

1719
02:09:26,875 --> 02:09:29,791
see anybody get get impacted by this, by

1720
02:09:29,791 --> 02:09:32,458
this stuff. But it's also, you know,

1721
02:09:32,458 --> 02:09:34,666
there's there are there's data out there

1722
02:09:34,666 --> 02:09:38,500
to kind of show where there's less risk.

1723
02:09:39,000 --> 02:09:41,083
And and that will be through insurance

1724
02:09:41,083 --> 02:09:43,250
agencies. That will be like in prices.

1725
02:09:43,291 --> 02:09:47,708
That'll be through NOAA and and local

1726
02:09:47,708 --> 02:09:49,583
government actions of looking at

1727
02:09:49,583 --> 02:09:51,916
floodplains and so forth and to look at

1728
02:09:51,916 --> 02:09:54,250
what risk you're in. And it's just a

1729
02:09:54,250 --> 02:09:55,958
matter of keeping it available. Now, one

1730
02:09:55,958 --> 02:09:58,083
thing that you do, Dave, is you go on

1731
02:09:58,083 --> 02:10:01,250
YouTube every so often on a regular on a fairly regular basis.

1732
02:10:01,291 --> 02:10:05,500
And also during times where there are

1733
02:10:05,500 --> 02:10:08,458
hurricanes or major storms or major wind

1734
02:10:08,458 --> 02:10:10,458
patterns or major meteorological events.

1735
02:10:11,291 --> 02:10:13,875
One of those was during the fall. I saw

1736
02:10:13,875 --> 02:10:15,541
you a number of times, not only on

1737
02:10:15,541 --> 02:10:17,333
LinkedIn, but on YouTube. Like I think it

1738
02:10:17,333 --> 02:10:20,333
was just being put up everywhere where

1739
02:10:20,333 --> 02:10:22,333
you were discussing how these hurricanes

1740
02:10:22,333 --> 02:10:24,083
one after one were coming one after the

1741
02:10:24,083 --> 02:10:26,291
other coming in and what kind of impact

1742
02:10:26,291 --> 02:10:28,000
it was going to do or what is the

1743
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:29,958
predicted where it's going to go, why it

1744
02:10:29,958 --> 02:10:30,250
shifted and so forth.

1745
02:10:30,291 --> 02:10:33,375
Providing that data to people who need it

1746
02:10:33,375 --> 02:10:36,083
or who have it. Yeah. What was the

1747
02:10:36,083 --> 02:10:39,000
response like to people who watched it or

1748
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:42,458
commented that kind of stuff? Yeah, no,

1749
02:10:42,708 --> 02:10:44,083
Andrew. That's a thanks for that question

1750
02:10:44,083 --> 02:10:47,583
because we were we were probably just as

1751
02:10:47,583 --> 02:10:50,500
surprised as as anybody else to see what

1752
02:10:50,500 --> 02:10:52,916
the reactions were. And and we have been

1753
02:10:52,916 --> 02:10:55,708
doing YouTube updates, but more on the

1754
02:10:55,708 --> 02:10:58,291
private channel side. Right. Right. So

1755
02:10:58,291 --> 02:10:59,250
just sharing the link and only on the website.

1756
02:10:59,291 --> 02:11:04,583
Yeah. And that was for the all hazards

1757
02:11:04,583 --> 02:11:07,500
consortium to help for the movement of

1758
02:11:07,500 --> 02:11:09,291
fleet utility vehicles across the country

1759
02:11:09,291 --> 02:11:11,500
to restore power and and things like

1760
02:11:11,500 --> 02:11:15,375
that. But then before hurricane Helene

1761
02:11:15,375 --> 02:11:19,291
formed, we opened up those briefings to

1762
02:11:19,291 --> 02:11:22,916
the public. And we were I mean, we're not

1763
02:11:22,916 --> 02:11:25,291
out to get views. We're out to provide a

1764
02:11:25,291 --> 02:11:27,416
service to the people

1765
02:11:27,416 --> 02:11:28,250
who wanted those videos.

1766
02:11:28,291 --> 02:11:31,500
And we had like five hundred and twenty

1767
02:11:31,500 --> 02:11:35,875
subscribers at that point in time. But

1768
02:11:35,875 --> 02:11:37,916
when Helene hit and we opened it up to

1769
02:11:37,916 --> 02:11:40,750
the public, people started seeing those

1770
02:11:40,750 --> 02:11:42,666
videos. And I don't know if it was the

1771
02:11:42,666 --> 02:11:45,666
algorithm or what. But YouTube was

1772
02:11:45,666 --> 02:11:49,750
recommending the video to people who were

1773
02:11:49,750 --> 02:11:52,208
searching for weather or the hurricane or

1774
02:11:52,208 --> 02:11:55,083
things like that. And we went from five

1775
02:11:55,083 --> 02:11:57,250
hundred and twenty subscribers to seventeen thousand subscribers.

1776
02:11:57,375 --> 02:12:04,958
Yeah. That's that's unheard of. And it

1777
02:12:04,958 --> 02:12:07,583
was just incredible. I mean, I'm not one

1778
02:12:07,583 --> 02:12:10,458
that really dives into YouTube analytics

1779
02:12:10,458 --> 02:12:13,083
and says, oh, yeah, OK. Well, you know, I

1780
02:12:13,083 --> 02:12:15,375
got seven hundred views or whatever. I

1781
02:12:15,375 --> 02:12:16,666
mean, my daughter called me and said,

1782
02:12:16,666 --> 02:12:20,458
dad, you know, I'm sitting here watching

1783
02:12:20,458 --> 02:12:22,291
your subscriptions go from ten thousand

1784
02:12:22,291 --> 02:12:24,250
to twelve to fifteen to sixteen. And, you know, we had millions of subscribers. And I think that's what we had to do.

1785
02:12:24,291 --> 02:12:26,666
Because I think how

1786
02:12:29,125 --> 02:12:33,000
on those hurricane updates. But what was

1787
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:38,666
most exciting to us about was that, and I

1788
02:12:38,666 --> 02:12:40,791
still don't understand the ratio of likes

1789
02:12:40,791 --> 02:12:43,083
or dislikes or whatever, but the

1790
02:12:43,083 --> 02:12:45,625
likes are always between 97 and 100

1791
02:12:45,625 --> 02:12:49,166
percent. And the comments came in by the

1792
02:12:49,208 --> 02:12:54,833
thousands. People saying thank you for

1793
02:12:54,833 --> 02:12:59,375
helping us understand what's happening

1794
02:12:59,375 --> 02:13:01,750
with the storm, why we need these

1795
02:13:01,750 --> 02:13:04,083
observing systems like the buoys in the

1796
02:13:04,083 --> 02:13:06,208
ocean, what the satellites

1797
02:13:06,208 --> 02:13:09,250
do. People are commenting on the

1798
02:13:09,291 --> 02:13:12,083
terminator line of the of the of the sun

1799
02:13:12,083 --> 02:13:13,583
setting and you can see the shadow

1800
02:13:13,583 --> 02:13:15,541
coming across the world. I've never seen

1801
02:13:15,541 --> 02:13:18,083
that before. We could see the

1802
02:13:18,125 --> 02:13:20,625
sunset signs lie like pretty much

1803
02:13:20,625 --> 02:13:23,708
recorded in for you and you never know

1804
02:13:23,708 --> 02:13:24,875
what to expect of what

1805
02:13:24,875 --> 02:13:27,875
you're going to cover. Yes, yes. And and

1806
02:13:27,875 --> 02:13:30,708
so what we really did is we

1807
02:13:30,708 --> 02:13:32,250
took that and we had so many

1808
02:13:32,250 --> 02:13:34,750
thank yous from people watching in Japan

1809
02:13:34,750 --> 02:13:36,375
or Australia and saying

1810
02:13:36,375 --> 02:13:37,750
we have family on the West

1811
02:13:37,750 --> 02:13:39,416
Coast of Florida. We're telling them to

1812
02:13:39,416 --> 02:13:41,291
watch this, you know, and

1813
02:13:41,291 --> 02:13:43,583
it was just was like, okay,

1814
02:13:44,083 --> 02:13:47,125
that was a wake up moment for us thinking

1815
02:13:47,125 --> 02:13:48,041
just okay, we're just

1816
02:13:48,041 --> 02:13:49,666
doing these videos to help

1817
02:13:50,125 --> 02:13:51,833
all hazards and then putting it out there

1818
02:13:51,833 --> 02:13:52,583
for other people who

1819
02:13:52,583 --> 02:13:53,791
might be interested. Yeah.

1820
02:13:54,208 --> 02:13:56,208
But but now I mean, you know, you get

1821
02:13:56,208 --> 02:13:57,958
comments back like this is the best

1822
02:13:57,958 --> 02:13:59,541
weather channel I've

1823
02:13:59,625 --> 02:14:02,625
ever seen. Thank you. And we're not doing

1824
02:14:02,625 --> 02:14:04,125
it every day. No, but

1825
02:14:04,125 --> 02:14:05,458
we're doing it when you know,

1826
02:14:05,458 --> 02:14:07,875
things happen. And, you know, we're,

1827
02:14:07,875 --> 02:14:10,666
we're, you know, hoping to ramp it up to

1828
02:14:10,666 --> 02:14:11,500
do it more frequently,

1829
02:14:11,708 --> 02:14:15,916
but we do want to make sure that the

1830
02:14:15,916 --> 02:14:19,000
video is educational at the same time.

1831
02:14:19,333 --> 02:14:21,625
It's useful for people to

1832
02:14:21,833 --> 02:14:23,875
improve their situational awareness or,

1833
02:14:23,875 --> 02:14:27,916
you know, to learn why, why am I even

1834
02:14:27,916 --> 02:14:29,791
able to do these videos,

1835
02:14:29,791 --> 02:14:32,541
right? We we have video recording

1836
02:14:32,541 --> 02:14:34,083
technology. We're using some

1837
02:14:34,083 --> 02:14:36,000
right now to do the podcast.

1838
02:14:36,958 --> 02:14:39,875
But how in the world can I show you a

1839
02:14:39,875 --> 02:14:41,041
global satellite image

1840
02:14:41,041 --> 02:14:43,250
that's updating every 10 minutes?

1841
02:14:43,958 --> 02:14:46,083
You know, how can I zoom in with geo

1842
02:14:46,083 --> 02:14:47,250
collaborate and show you

1843
02:14:47,250 --> 02:14:48,583
what the wave heights are,

1844
02:14:48,875 --> 02:14:52,250
you know, 50 miles off of Tampa? Yeah,

1845
02:14:52,250 --> 02:14:54,000
you know, how is that even

1846
02:14:54,000 --> 02:14:56,458
possible? And and this is why

1847
02:14:56,458 --> 02:14:58,500
I think it's so important to explain.

1848
02:14:59,125 --> 02:15:00,583
Yeah, the technology

1849
02:15:00,583 --> 02:15:01,958
that's able to make that happen.

1850
02:15:02,500 --> 02:15:04,666
And to make sure people don't understand

1851
02:15:04,666 --> 02:15:06,125
that, okay, you might have

1852
02:15:06,125 --> 02:15:08,000
just watched this sci fi video

1853
02:15:08,083 --> 02:15:12,083
on Netflix, or this movie about spies and

1854
02:15:12,083 --> 02:15:14,083
all the data that they seem

1855
02:15:14,083 --> 02:15:15,708
to have and be able to process,

1856
02:15:15,708 --> 02:15:17,916
which you can't do that fast right today.

1857
02:15:18,791 --> 02:15:21,083
It's all Hollywood. But we

1858
02:15:21,083 --> 02:15:23,041
can bring this data together

1859
02:15:23,125 --> 02:15:25,583
for you for a very little bit of

1860
02:15:25,583 --> 02:15:27,750
investment from the American taxpayer,

1861
02:15:28,083 --> 02:15:31,416
and help you keep informed

1862
02:15:32,083 --> 02:15:33,750
of what's going on not only around the

1863
02:15:33,750 --> 02:15:35,916
country, but around the world. And so,

1864
02:15:35,916 --> 02:15:39,000
you know, I think with with all the talk

1865
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:41,250
of these cuts and, you know, major

1866
02:15:41,250 --> 02:15:43,916
realignment of the US government.

1867
02:15:45,708 --> 02:15:49,500
As long as you do that, understanding

1868
02:15:49,500 --> 02:15:53,375
what you're cutting, and not just on

1869
02:15:53,375 --> 02:15:55,208
cutting people for the

1870
02:15:55,208 --> 02:15:56,375
sake of cutting people,

1871
02:15:57,375 --> 02:16:02,208
that will go a much further distance with

1872
02:16:02,208 --> 02:16:05,666
the American people. And also with those

1873
02:16:05,666 --> 02:16:08,125
people who are benefiting from these

1874
02:16:08,125 --> 02:16:12,250
technologies. Because, you know, again,

1875
02:16:12,375 --> 02:16:15,291
if if if we cut out a weather data and

1876
02:16:15,291 --> 02:16:18,000
the data flow, or you just say no is

1877
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:20,041
going to collect the data and then give

1878
02:16:20,041 --> 02:16:21,166
it to the private sector.

1879
02:16:21,375 --> 02:16:25,458
There are different jobs and roles that

1880
02:16:25,458 --> 02:16:28,166
the government has versus what a private

1881
02:16:28,166 --> 02:16:32,500
sector company has. The private sector

1882
02:16:32,500 --> 02:16:35,500
has to make money. So they're going to

1883
02:16:35,500 --> 02:16:37,625
charge for things. And the government

1884
02:16:37,625 --> 02:16:41,500
agency is a public good. It's a service.

1885
02:16:42,541 --> 02:16:44,375
So, you know, a lot of people say, you

1886
02:16:44,375 --> 02:16:46,000
know, give it over, give it out, give it

1887
02:16:46,000 --> 02:16:48,000
out, you know, do all that stuff. But if

1888
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:50,250
they just took the time to understand

1889
02:16:51,375 --> 02:16:53,750
the the significance and the billions of

1890
02:16:53,750 --> 02:16:55,541
dollars that have gone into the satellite

1891
02:16:55,541 --> 02:16:57,625
platforms that are operating, takes

1892
02:16:57,625 --> 02:17:00,000
people sitting at those controls to make

1893
02:17:00,000 --> 02:17:02,000
sure if something happens, they put it

1894
02:17:02,000 --> 02:17:04,083
into safe mode, or they keep it

1895
02:17:04,083 --> 02:17:06,875
operating. Yeah. So it doesn't fall out

1896
02:17:06,875 --> 02:17:09,791
of the sky or do reentry.

1897
02:17:10,625 --> 02:17:10,791
And so I think it's important. Yeah. And that's important. And
I think the biggest concern that's going to be the data is

1898
02:17:10,791 --> 02:17:13,625
that all of this data is has been decades

1899
02:17:13,625 --> 02:17:15,666
and decades of the weather enterprise

1900
02:17:15,666 --> 02:17:18,291
working together, listening to each

1901
02:17:18,291 --> 02:17:21,250
other, and really putting forth great

1902
02:17:21,250 --> 02:17:23,166
products that both the private sector can

1903
02:17:23,166 --> 02:17:26,333
make money on. And the government can

1904
02:17:26,333 --> 02:17:29,125
stand behind. Yeah. And and you know, the

1905
02:17:29,125 --> 02:17:31,416
biggest concern I have is if the forecast

1906
02:17:31,416 --> 02:17:32,541
everything goes over to

1907
02:17:32,541 --> 02:17:34,083
the private sector. Yeah.

1908
02:17:40,250 --> 02:17:40,791
All of these issues are going to be

1909
02:17:40,791 --> 02:17:42,875
covered in water taxi, going across the

1910
02:17:42,875 --> 02:17:45,958
harbor in Honolulu and a thunderstorm

1911
02:17:45,958 --> 02:17:48,500
comes and a gust front tips over that

1912
02:17:48,500 --> 02:17:52,750
water taxi and kills people. To live are

1913
02:17:52,750 --> 02:17:56,208
you gonna sue me for giving you a

1914
02:17:56,208 --> 02:17:57,666
forecast that didn't

1915
02:17:57,666 --> 02:17:59,916
include that thunderstorm? Yeah.

1916
02:18:00,041 --> 02:18:02,708
I think if if that ultimately is what

1917
02:18:02,708 --> 02:18:04,250
happens, where the inner weather

1918
02:18:04,250 --> 02:18:06,750
enterprise goes because of these changes,

1919
02:18:07,041 --> 02:18:09,500
the public, the the private sector doesn't.

1920
02:18:10,250 --> 02:18:12,916
organizations will quickly go out of

1921
02:18:12,916 --> 02:18:14,333
business because they will

1922
02:18:14,333 --> 02:18:16,333
not be able to take on that

1923
02:18:16,333 --> 02:18:18,708
liability and the government has always

1924
02:18:18,708 --> 02:18:20,375
been protected. Yes.

1925
02:18:21,291 --> 02:18:22,208
Yeah. And a hundred percent.

1926
02:18:22,208 --> 02:18:24,708
And obviously they help more people than,

1927
02:18:24,708 --> 02:18:26,375
than, than the people

1928
02:18:26,375 --> 02:18:28,250
get harmed. This has been a

1929
02:18:28,250 --> 02:18:30,583
phenomenal chat, Dave. You know, I knew

1930
02:18:30,583 --> 02:18:31,791
this was an episode that you

1931
02:18:31,791 --> 02:18:33,333
and I could talk for so long

1932
02:18:33,375 --> 02:18:35,500
on because it's, it's such an interesting

1933
02:18:35,500 --> 02:18:37,458
topic and it's such an important aspect.

1934
02:18:37,708 --> 02:18:39,416
And I really want to thank you for, for

1935
02:18:39,416 --> 02:18:40,625
coming on the, on the show

1936
02:18:40,625 --> 02:18:42,416
today to start talking about

1937
02:18:42,875 --> 02:18:45,125
really understanding why this data is so

1938
02:18:45,125 --> 02:18:47,083
important and why we really

1939
02:18:47,083 --> 02:18:48,708
can't live without it and what

1940
02:18:48,708 --> 02:18:52,000
the consequences could be. Uh, if this

1941
02:18:52,000 --> 02:18:54,208
data starts getting cut, obviously I hope

1942
02:18:54,208 --> 02:18:55,291
it doesn't, you know,

1943
02:18:55,291 --> 02:18:56,583
I love what you're doing with storm

1944
02:18:56,583 --> 02:18:57,750
center. Uh, I'm going to put

1945
02:18:57,750 --> 02:18:59,958
links, uh, to all the, like,

1946
02:18:59,958 --> 02:19:01,666
you know, the website, the YouTube

1947
02:19:01,666 --> 02:19:03,583
channel so people can take a look and

1948
02:19:03,583 --> 02:19:04,375
really learn. You're

1949
02:19:04,416 --> 02:19:07,000
such a good teacher, uh, on, on these, on

1950
02:19:07,000 --> 02:19:07,916
these episodes. I know I

1951
02:19:07,916 --> 02:19:09,041
learned stuff all the time when

1952
02:19:09,041 --> 02:19:10,250
I watch it, I have it on in the

1953
02:19:10,250 --> 02:19:11,666
background when I'm working and I'm

1954
02:19:11,666 --> 02:19:13,208
watching, uh, it's, it's really

1955
02:19:13,208 --> 02:19:14,500
interesting. So, you know, I really

1956
02:19:14,500 --> 02:19:16,500
appreciate what you're doing. Um,

1957
02:19:16,500 --> 02:19:17,791
obviously you and Ellen with the

1958
02:19:17,791 --> 02:19:20,125
book, uh, and, and I'll put the link so

1959
02:19:20,125 --> 02:19:21,208
that people can get access to

1960
02:19:21,208 --> 02:19:22,833
the book as well to learn more

1961
02:19:22,833 --> 02:19:24,708
about the ocean and the weather and

1962
02:19:24,708 --> 02:19:26,333
climate and just, you know,

1963
02:19:26,333 --> 02:19:27,500
more about our planet, such an

1964
02:19:27,500 --> 02:19:29,791
important role and why we need this type

1965
02:19:29,791 --> 02:19:31,250
of data. So Dave, thank you so much for

1966
02:19:31,250 --> 02:19:32,000
coming on the podcast.

1967
02:19:32,250 --> 02:19:34,041
Love to have you back to talk more about

1968
02:19:34,041 --> 02:19:36,333
weather and climate and, uh, until next

1969
02:19:36,333 --> 02:19:37,208
time. Thank you so much.

1970
02:19:37,583 --> 02:19:39,250
Oh, that'd be great. I mean, I look, my

1971
02:19:39,250 --> 02:19:40,791
biggest fear is we go back

1972
02:19:40,791 --> 02:19:42,750
to 1900 with no satellites

1973
02:19:43,125 --> 02:19:45,250
and we have a land falling hurricane that

1974
02:19:45,250 --> 02:19:48,375
kills 15 or 20,000 people.

1975
02:19:48,375 --> 02:19:49,875
Yeah. We don't want to go back

1976
02:19:49,875 --> 02:19:51,833
there and Andrew, I'd love to come on and

1977
02:19:51,833 --> 02:19:52,541
talk to you about weather

1978
02:19:52,541 --> 02:19:54,833
all the time. Wonderful. Thank

1979
02:19:54,833 --> 02:19:57,541
you so much. Okay. Take care. Thank you,

1980
02:19:57,541 --> 02:19:58,458
Dave, for joining us on

1981
02:19:58,458 --> 02:19:59,416
today's episode of the how to

1982
02:19:59,458 --> 02:20:01,208
project the ocean podcast. Like I said

1983
02:20:01,208 --> 02:20:02,500
before, folks, you learn so

1984
02:20:02,500 --> 02:20:03,708
much when you hear from Dave,

1985
02:20:03,916 --> 02:20:07,041
he has such a great approach to talking

1986
02:20:07,041 --> 02:20:08,500
about the ocean. It's

1987
02:20:08,500 --> 02:20:10,041
magnificent. That's what that's how I'm

1988
02:20:10,041 --> 02:20:11,916
going to describe. It's magnificent. He

1989
02:20:11,916 --> 02:20:14,041
and his cohort and partner, Ellen

1990
02:20:14,041 --> 02:20:15,416
Progger, who have a book

1991
02:20:15,416 --> 02:20:17,583
called Megalodon's mermaids and climate

1992
02:20:17,583 --> 02:20:18,500
change. The book is out

1993
02:20:18,500 --> 02:20:20,250
now answers to your ocean and

1994
02:20:20,250 --> 02:20:21,916
atmosphere questions. It's basically

1995
02:20:21,916 --> 02:20:23,500
tackling misinformation and

1996
02:20:23,500 --> 02:20:24,375
just general questions that

1997
02:20:24,375 --> 02:20:26,250
people have on the ocean and the

1998
02:20:26,250 --> 02:20:27,083
atmosphere. If you want to

1999
02:20:27,083 --> 02:20:28,458
learn more about those things,

2000
02:20:28,791 --> 02:20:30,500
you buy this book. I'm going to put a

2001
02:20:30,500 --> 02:20:31,666
link to the show notes. I highly

2002
02:20:31,666 --> 02:20:33,000
recommend it. It's just a

2003
02:20:33,000 --> 02:20:34,541
great book. Non-politicized,

2004
02:20:34,791 --> 02:20:36,375
just about the science. You get to have

2005
02:20:36,375 --> 02:20:38,583
fun learning about our planet, learning

2006
02:20:38,583 --> 02:20:39,500
about its environment,

2007
02:20:39,791 --> 02:20:41,166
and learning how we can predict the

2008
02:20:41,166 --> 02:20:43,916
weather and the climate as well as ocean

2009
02:20:43,916 --> 02:20:45,333
patterns. It's always

2010
02:20:45,583 --> 02:20:47,833
fun to be there. And Dave is such an

2011
02:20:47,833 --> 02:20:49,625
interesting science communicator. He's so

2012
02:20:49,625 --> 02:20:51,458
engaging. He's got such a,

2013
02:20:51,833 --> 02:20:53,208
you know, an emotional tie to his voice.

2014
02:20:53,208 --> 02:20:54,166
It's always positive and

2015
02:20:54,166 --> 02:20:55,500
uplifting. I really enjoy it.

2016
02:20:55,541 --> 02:20:56,666
And if you want to check them out on

2017
02:20:56,666 --> 02:20:58,166
YouTube, I'll put the links in the show

2018
02:20:58,166 --> 02:20:59,791
notes. But if you have any questions or

2019
02:20:59,791 --> 02:21:02,625
comments about the episode, you can get a

2020
02:21:02,625 --> 02:21:05,375
hold of me by DMING me on Instagram at

2021
02:21:05,375 --> 02:21:07,291
how to protect the ocean. That's at how

2022
02:21:07,291 --> 02:21:08,583
to protect the ocean. Don't forget to

2023
02:21:08,583 --> 02:21:10,791
subscribe to this YouTube channel as well

2024
02:21:10,791 --> 02:21:12,416
as hit that notification bell. So you get

2025
02:21:12,416 --> 02:21:14,333
information about the ocean, marine

2026
02:21:14,333 --> 02:21:17,041
biology, animals, Monday, Wednesdays and

2027
02:21:17,041 --> 02:21:19,958
Fridays every week. I can't wait to

2028
02:21:19,958 --> 02:21:21,708
provide that for you. But that's it for

2029
02:21:21,708 --> 02:21:23,541
today's episode. Really appreciate Dave

2030
02:21:23,541 --> 02:21:24,791
coming on the podcast. We'll definitely

2031
02:21:24,791 --> 02:21:25,458
have him back to you soon.

2032
02:21:25,541 --> 02:21:27,166
Talk more about the weather and more

2033
02:21:27,166 --> 02:21:29,500
about data and how important it is. But I

2034
02:21:29,500 --> 02:21:31,208
want to thank you for joining us on

2035
02:21:31,208 --> 02:21:32,625
today's episode of the how to protect the

2036
02:21:32,625 --> 02:21:34,333
ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew from

2037
02:21:34,333 --> 02:21:36,458
the true North strong and free. Have a

2038
02:21:36,458 --> 02:21:37,708
great day. We'll talk to you next time

2039
02:21:37,708 --> 02:21:38,875
and happy conservation.