March 7, 2025
How NOAA and EPA Layoffs Threaten Environmental Research and Public Safety
In this episode of How to Protect the Ocean, we dive into the recent layoffs at NOAA and EPA, which have led to over a thousand scientists and environmental professionals losing their jobs. What does this mean for climate research, weather...
In this episode of How to Protect the Ocean, we dive into the recent layoffs at NOAA and EPA, which have led to over a thousand scientists and environmental professionals losing their jobs. What does this mean for climate research, weather forecasting, and environmental protection? Join us as we unpack the consequences and what can be done to support these critical agencies.
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Transcript
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We need to talk about these cuts are
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happening to NOAA and EPA.
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Over a thousand people have been fired
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from both of these departments that
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provide so much critical research and
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protections and enforcements for
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environmental regulations
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that are out to protect you.
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We're gonna talk about on today's episode
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of the how to protect the ocean podcast.
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Let's start the show.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to another
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exciting episode of the how
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to protect the ocean podcast.
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I'm your host Andrew Lewin.
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This is the podcast where you find out
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what's happening with the ocean how you
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can speak up for the
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ocean what you can do
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to live for a better ocean by taking
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action and on today's episode
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we're gonna be talking about how the
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ocean is being affected by the lack of
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people that used to be able to do
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research critical research be
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able to predict weather be able to manage
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fisheries be able to look after and model
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climate change be able to enforce
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Regulations for the clean water and the
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Clean Air Act that
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are designed to protect
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US citizens as well as other people
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around the world now, they're gone
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They are no longer employed with NOAA or
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the EPA and we need to talk about it on
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today's episode because this is not good
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This is going to have long-term effects
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before we get into those effects
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We are going to talk about what actually
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happened in this sort of battle for
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science this war against science
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So recent mass layoffs at the NOAA so the
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National Oceanographic and Atmospheric
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Administration and the Environmental
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Protection Agency EPA are poised to have
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significant long-term effects on
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environmental research in the United
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States and over the next decade
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So in late February this past week, we
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saw about 880 NOAA employees accounting
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for about 7.3% of its workforce laid off
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These layoffs include critical personnel
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for divisions such as the National
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Hurricane Center and the
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Storm Prediction Center
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Notably 25% of the Environmental Modeling
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Center staff were laid off and these
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reductions are predicted to impair NOAA's
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capability to provide accurate weather
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forecasts and conduct essential climate
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research potentially compromising public
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safety and effectiveness of
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disaster response mechanisms
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The layoffs also affected NOAA's support
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for external research institutions
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So for example, the Scripps Institute of
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Oceanography, which is a huge research
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institute in San Diego
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They received $42 million from NOAA in
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the fiscal year of 2023 and 2024 now
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faces uncertainty regarding future
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funding as all the
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funding have been taken away
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This jeopardizes ongoing research
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projects and development for the
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environmental studies
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A lot of research graduate students, a
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lot of research that goes on to look at
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coastal modeling, looks at water quality,
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looks at conservation, a lot of different
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aspects will be affected
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through Scripps almost immediately
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And this is a big problem
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The EPA also experienced significant
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staff reductions with over 300
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probationary employees terminated
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These cuts targeted personnel responsible
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for enforcing the regulations of the
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Clean Water and Clean Air Acts
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Those involved in
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reviewing environmental permits
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The loss of these employees could delay
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critical oversight functions and hinder
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timely responses to pollution and
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environmental disasters
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Thereby affecting the agency's ability to
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maintain environmental safeguards and
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public health protections
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This is serious guys
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I don't think I've ever seen cuts this
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big since we saw them in Canada happen a
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number of years ago, about a decade ago
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When Stephen Harper was prime minister
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with the conservatives, they made drastic
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cuts, but there was a
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strategy involved around it
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It's a very similar strategy to what's
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going on with the environmental
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reductions that are happening in the US
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It was all for oil and gas
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In Canada, about a decade ago, there was
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a pipeline being built from the tar sands
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in Alberta all the way to the coast in BC
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The reason why it took so long to do it
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is they had to cross these rivers and
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water crossings and so forth
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And when you have to do that, that
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automatically triggers an environmental
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assessment with those
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environmental assessment
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You look at species at risk. You look at
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fish habitat to cover the fisheries act,
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the species at risk act and those were
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hindering the production of this pipeline
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So what the government decided to do
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under pressure of oil and gas companies,
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they said, hey, you know what we're
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actually going to do?
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We're going to change the law. We're
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actually going to go in and we're going
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to change the fisheries act.
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They want to change the species at risk
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act, but they weren't able to do it in
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time. They got voted out
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before they could do it.
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But they changed the fisheries act to
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changing the wording of it. We used to be
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able to protect fish habitat.
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Then they wanted to change it. They said
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we're going to change that to protect
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commercially, recreationally and
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aboriginally commercial species that were
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actually fish that had a 30 year history
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of being fish, which took out a lot of
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the rivers and lake systems in Canada out
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of the running because it's just some of
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the fisheries hadn't been
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established for over 30 years.
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So that allowed the government to give
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permits faster for these oil and gas
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companies, no matter what they were going
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over, no matter what fish habitat they
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were destroying. Now, obviously, if you
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look at any conservation manual, you look
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at any fisheries site or talk to any
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fisheries scientists, they're going to
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say the best thing to do to protect
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fisheries is to protect their habitat
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because without their habitat, you're not
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going to have these fish.
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The government didn't care about this.
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They wanted this pipeline to go through.
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There was a lot of freedom of
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information. It was a big controversy
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that I've gone into in past episodes.
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I'm just giving you the rundown here. But
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regardless what happened, they changed
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the law and when they changed the law,
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they actually affected all the people
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that were under those sections.
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So we used to have like a section under
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the science that looked at environmental
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permits that were just looking at anybody
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who wants to develop where they would
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affect fisheries habitat.
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Now they didn't have to care about
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fisheries habitat. They just had to care
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about the recreational aboriginal viable
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species that were actually had a history
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of 30 years being fished.
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So now they actually couldn't have a fish
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habitat sector. They had to destroy that
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sector. They took it away and then they
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actually built up a new one. I think it
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was called fisheries protection program.
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That program was redesigned. It was very
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similar to what you did is
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just redesign under the new act.
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Now, since then, the Trudeau government
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came in and the first thing they did is
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they reviewed the fisheries act and they
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made it better. They put the fish habitat
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back in and they put it back. They put a
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lot of other things in there
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as well to make it stronger.
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The problem was it took five years for
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them to do that after they got into power
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because anything in government when
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you're putting a lot together, you have
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to take your time. You have to go through
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a specific process to get it done. All
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the development projects actually had
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went through really quickly and it could
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have destroyed fish habitat. So we had
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that five-year gap. Plus now you got to
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put it all together. It was ridiculous to
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be honest. It was really bad that we went
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to see and then after this happened when
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they put in that new division of the
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science section, the government, they had
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to rehire everybody. So what they did is they laid people off.
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Luckily, we were unionized. They laid
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people off and they couldn't get like
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just lay them off and you're done. You
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don't have a job. They had to give you
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choices of where you want to apply to,
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but you could move all over the country
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wherever you want to. So a lot of people
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got moved because they were forced to. So
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they had to move their homes. They had to
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move away from their family and friends
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and then some of them just actually just
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retired. A lot of them retired. They were
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on the cusp of retiring anyway, but it
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was all in the game of changing the law
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so that they can get this pipeline
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through. It was all about oil and gas and let's not get into the problem.
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So they were kind of twisted. This is
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about oil and gas and mining and
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development and natural resource
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development. That's what it is in the
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states right now. We are seeing this
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happen. We're seeing the Marine Mount
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Protection Act. That's going to be
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changed. We're seeing the clean water and
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the clean air acts. A lot of those
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regulations were rescinded. They were
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just taken out just like they were in the
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first Trump administration. I think it
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was like hundreds of different
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regulations were not applicable anymore
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and they were just taken out based on
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executive order. So now those two things
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that we looked at, the Marine Mount
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Protection Act that was
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very big when it came to oil and gas and
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seismic surveying, which is all about oil
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and gas had to do with you can't harass
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or kill or hurt harm a marine mammal,
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even especially when you're doing oil and
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gas. So that was a big hindrance to oil
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and gas production and just building and
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finding and drilling new wells. But then
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you also have the clean air and clean
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water act. So if you wanted to do coal
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plants or if you wanted to have mining,
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they had to have specific regulations
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that met criteria to meet the law so that they could have a better
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water. So that's why I think that they
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didn't pollute the air or the water in
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and around these mining areas or any kind
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01:08:01,833 --> 01:08:03,750
of fossil fuel areas or any kind of
263
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:05,166
chemical plant. Really like think about
264
01:08:05,166 --> 01:08:07,875
New York City, the harbor that got
265
01:08:07,875 --> 01:08:09,583
cleaned up over a number of years over
266
01:08:09,583 --> 01:08:11,875
decades because of things like the clean
267
01:08:11,875 --> 01:08:13,708
water act. You weren't allowed to dispose
268
01:08:13,708 --> 01:08:16,375
of chemicals or anything bad in the water
269
01:08:16,375 --> 01:08:18,333
and that harbor got cleaned up so much so
270
01:08:18,333 --> 01:08:19,333
that humpbacks are
271
01:08:19,333 --> 01:08:21,166
coming back and you see men.
272
01:08:25,833 --> 01:08:27,375
So you enjoy that water a lot better and
273
01:08:27,375 --> 01:08:30,208
it just becomes a nicer area to visit in
274
01:08:30,208 --> 01:08:31,875
a nice area to see and you have a healthy
275
01:08:31,875 --> 01:08:33,750
ecosystem. But people don't care about
276
01:08:33,750 --> 01:08:35,375
that these days. People care about more
277
01:08:35,375 --> 01:08:37,250
oil and gas development and fossil fuel
278
01:08:37,250 --> 01:08:38,458
development. According to this
279
01:08:38,458 --> 01:08:39,875
administration, they're going to drill
280
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:42,041
baby drill. They care about mining and
281
01:08:42,041 --> 01:08:44,333
they care about anything that will harm
282
01:08:44,333 --> 01:08:46,375
the environment, it seems. And they're
283
01:08:46,375 --> 01:08:48,083
getting rid of the regulations to do
284
01:08:48,083 --> 01:08:50,125
that. And one of the things to do, not
285
01:08:50,125 --> 01:08:51,166
only are you getting rid of the
286
01:08:51,166 --> 01:08:53,583
regulations and changing the law, but
287
01:08:53,583 --> 01:08:54,500
you're also getting rid of
288
01:08:54,500 --> 01:08:55,833
the people who have the same
289
01:08:55,833 --> 01:08:57,833
skills that will actually help build
290
01:08:57,833 --> 01:08:59,750
these laws or help enforce these laws
291
01:08:59,750 --> 01:09:02,041
further or make these laws better to
292
01:09:02,041 --> 01:09:04,000
protect the environment and protect US
293
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,875
citizens. And I think that's where it
294
01:09:05,875 --> 01:09:08,083
really comes down to. So what I wanted to
295
01:09:08,083 --> 01:09:10,208
know was I was like, what are the long
296
01:09:10,208 --> 01:09:13,708
term impacts of removing over a thousand
297
01:09:13,708 --> 01:09:17,000
people from the workforce in and around
298
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,375
environmental departments such as NOAA
299
01:09:19,375 --> 01:09:21,125
and such as the EPA. I just kind of
300
01:09:21,125 --> 01:09:22,541
looked at a couple of things, a couple
301
01:09:22,541 --> 01:09:24,541
sources here that talked about it and
302
01:09:24,541 --> 01:09:25,833
I'll list those sources in the
303
01:09:25,875 --> 01:09:27,541
show notes. But one is diminishing
304
01:09:27,541 --> 01:09:29,208
research capacity. Obviously, the
305
01:09:29,208 --> 01:09:30,708
reduction of skilled scientists and
306
01:09:30,708 --> 01:09:32,833
researchers will likely slow progress of
307
01:09:32,833 --> 01:09:35,083
environmental studies of leading gaps in
308
01:09:35,083 --> 01:09:37,000
data and reduced understanding of
309
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,500
environmental changes. The other was
310
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:41,791
compromised public safety with fewer
311
01:09:41,791 --> 01:09:43,208
experts monitoring and predicting
312
01:09:43,208 --> 01:09:45,083
environmental hazards. Communities may
313
01:09:45,083 --> 01:09:47,541
face increased risk from events such as
314
01:09:47,541 --> 01:09:49,458
hurricanes, wildfires and industrial
315
01:09:49,458 --> 01:09:51,458
pollution. We just saw what happened in
316
01:09:51,458 --> 01:09:53,250
the wildfires in Pasadena. We saw how
317
01:09:53,250 --> 01:09:55,125
quickly that fire came through without
318
01:09:55,125 --> 01:09:55,833
warning people that they were
319
01:09:55,875 --> 01:10:04,958
going to be affected. Especially when
320
01:10:04,958 --> 01:10:06,250
you're looking at when the wind are going
321
01:10:06,250 --> 01:10:07,541
to come up and you can predict those
322
01:10:07,541 --> 01:10:09,666
winds, what's going to happen there. And
323
01:10:09,666 --> 01:10:10,750
the last one is the erosion of
324
01:10:10,750 --> 01:10:12,625
institutional knowledge. So the departure
325
01:10:12,625 --> 01:10:14,750
of experienced personnel results in the
326
01:10:14,750 --> 01:10:16,833
loss of valuable institutional knowledge
327
01:10:16,833 --> 01:10:18,708
which is crucial for mentoring new
328
01:10:18,708 --> 01:10:20,958
scientists and maintaining the continuity
329
01:10:20,958 --> 01:10:23,958
of long term research projects. When you
330
01:10:23,958 --> 01:10:25,500
are in government, you have these
331
01:10:25,500 --> 01:10:25,833
projects. It's very important to understand that you have a particular
332
01:10:25,833 --> 01:10:27,458
And when you come in as a
333
01:10:27,458 --> 01:10:28,625
young scientist in government,
334
01:10:28,625 --> 01:10:30,208
you usually get assigned to a project.
335
01:10:30,208 --> 01:10:30,791
Some of these projects
336
01:10:30,791 --> 01:10:32,291
are five years, three years.
337
01:10:32,583 --> 01:10:33,208
Some of these have
338
01:10:33,208 --> 01:10:34,833
been going on for 50 years
339
01:10:34,833 --> 01:10:36,000
in monitoring and so forth.
340
01:10:36,250 --> 01:10:37,291
If you lose that, you
341
01:10:37,291 --> 01:10:38,250
lose those five, 10 years,
342
01:10:38,250 --> 01:10:39,375
or you eliminate those programs,
343
01:10:39,791 --> 01:10:41,250
or even you eliminate the scientists
344
01:10:41,250 --> 01:10:42,791
that have been there for a long time,
345
01:10:43,041 --> 01:10:43,958
and you have these new
346
01:10:43,958 --> 01:10:44,916
people who are coming in,
347
01:10:45,083 --> 01:10:46,791
you're not getting the experience
348
01:10:47,083 --> 01:10:48,208
that the older scientists
349
01:10:48,208 --> 01:10:49,666
would be able to pass down
350
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:52,083
because they are gone, essentially.
351
01:10:52,333 --> 01:10:54,375
Or you lose that young
352
01:10:54,375 --> 01:10:55,708
cohort that came through
353
01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:56,666
because they were the
354
01:10:56,666 --> 01:10:57,458
last ones to get on.
355
01:10:57,458 --> 01:10:57,833
So they're the first
356
01:10:57,833 --> 01:10:59,083
ones to get off in layoffs.
357
01:10:59,708 --> 01:11:00,791
And so now you have a
358
01:11:00,791 --> 01:11:02,041
gap of the generation
359
01:11:02,291 --> 01:11:03,083
that doesn't know what
360
01:11:03,083 --> 01:11:04,541
they're doing when they get back in.
361
01:11:04,541 --> 01:11:06,125
And hopefully they'll be able to rehire
362
01:11:06,125 --> 01:11:07,000
for those positions.
363
01:11:07,458 --> 01:11:08,291
It's gonna be expensive,
364
01:11:08,291 --> 01:11:08,875
it's gonna be difficult,
365
01:11:08,875 --> 01:11:09,916
but all that data
366
01:11:09,916 --> 01:11:11,291
that you lose in between
367
01:11:11,291 --> 01:11:12,375
getting rid of people
368
01:11:12,375 --> 01:11:14,041
who've been there over 30 years,
369
01:11:14,041 --> 01:11:15,375
or even 20 or even 15 or
370
01:11:15,375 --> 01:11:16,666
even 10, or even just like two,
371
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:18,541
you lose that institutional knowledge
372
01:11:18,541 --> 01:11:19,375
and you lose that
373
01:11:19,375 --> 01:11:21,375
ability to train and mentor
374
01:11:21,833 --> 01:11:23,291
new scientists that are coming through
375
01:11:23,375 --> 01:11:24,375
that'll allow them to be
376
01:11:24,375 --> 01:11:25,791
better than the other scientists
377
01:11:25,791 --> 01:11:26,500
when they first came in.
378
01:11:26,500 --> 01:11:27,083
That's the whole point
379
01:11:27,083 --> 01:11:28,333
is make science better,
380
01:11:28,666 --> 01:11:30,208
but you're not able to do that when
381
01:11:30,208 --> 01:11:31,958
you're losing these gaps of people.
382
01:11:32,375 --> 01:11:33,000
It's not as if these
383
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,000
layoffs are based on performance.
384
01:11:35,208 --> 01:11:37,500
These layoffs are based on what saves the
385
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:39,000
government the most money,
386
01:11:39,208 --> 01:11:42,000
but also they never look at what will
387
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:43,750
destroy the government
388
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:45,083
or these programs or
389
01:11:45,083 --> 01:11:46,041
will hurt the citizens.
390
01:11:46,375 --> 01:11:48,125
And we've already seen some examples that
391
01:11:48,125 --> 01:11:50,250
Elon Musk himself has admitted to.
392
01:11:50,416 --> 01:11:52,375
Those canceled an Ebola program,
393
01:11:52,708 --> 01:11:54,166
and they realize that they
394
01:11:54,166 --> 01:11:55,375
were like, Oh, hold on a second.
395
01:11:55,375 --> 01:11:56,291
We actually need that.
396
01:11:56,291 --> 01:11:57,583
So we're gonna bring those people back
397
01:11:57,583 --> 01:11:58,291
and we're gonna put the
398
01:11:58,291 --> 01:11:59,375
bullet program back out.
399
01:11:59,375 --> 01:12:00,041
So it's okay.
400
01:12:00,041 --> 01:12:01,916
We make mistakes even said, but we will
401
01:12:01,916 --> 01:12:03,583
try and rectify them as soon as possible.
402
01:12:03,583 --> 01:12:04,750
It just goes to show that they're not
403
01:12:04,750 --> 01:12:06,625
really looking at stuff that's critical.
404
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:08,375
They're just going through and they're
405
01:12:08,375 --> 01:12:09,541
just taking away things that
406
01:12:09,541 --> 01:12:10,708
they think is a lot of money.
407
01:12:11,166 --> 01:12:12,333
And if it's a lot of money, they can save
408
01:12:12,333 --> 01:12:14,125
them a lot of money, then they'll do it.
409
01:12:14,333 --> 01:12:16,416
It's really coming at it from a very tech
410
01:12:16,416 --> 01:12:18,833
and private sector format,
411
01:12:18,958 --> 01:12:20,541
which you can't do in the public sector
412
01:12:20,541 --> 01:12:21,875
because these programs
413
01:12:22,333 --> 01:12:23,583
that people know nothing about these
414
01:12:23,583 --> 01:12:24,666
people who are coming in,
415
01:12:24,666 --> 01:12:26,000
they know nothing about they know nothing
416
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:26,958
about their significance.
417
01:12:26,958 --> 01:12:28,000
They're just looking at the price tag.
418
01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:30,333
They have no idea what this can do in
419
01:12:30,333 --> 01:12:32,458
terms of harm for a lot of people taking
420
01:12:32,458 --> 01:12:33,958
away an Ebola program,
421
01:12:34,375 --> 01:12:35,291
you know, give it to them.
422
01:12:35,291 --> 01:12:35,916
They put it back.
423
01:12:36,125 --> 01:12:37,791
But why take it away in the first place?
424
01:12:37,791 --> 01:12:38,416
Why don't you take your
425
01:12:38,416 --> 01:12:40,125
time go through each program?
426
01:12:40,125 --> 01:12:40,958
They're just kind of coming through
427
01:12:40,958 --> 01:12:42,458
quickly quickly and cutting,
428
01:12:42,458 --> 01:12:44,208
but then they don't realize what mistakes
429
01:12:44,208 --> 01:12:45,833
they're making in the future.
430
01:12:46,125 --> 01:12:48,291
Taking away people who model and predict
431
01:12:48,291 --> 01:12:50,291
weather is very, very dangerous.
432
01:12:50,333 --> 01:12:52,416
We just talked to Dave Jones last episode
433
01:12:52,416 --> 01:12:55,000
and what that meant for the weather
434
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,500
service and for NOAA and
435
01:12:56,500 --> 01:12:57,750
for satellites and for NASA.
436
01:12:58,541 --> 01:13:00,625
These are our programs that are critical
437
01:13:00,625 --> 01:13:02,375
to U.S. citizen safety.
438
01:13:02,958 --> 01:13:03,875
We don't know where these
439
01:13:03,875 --> 01:13:04,583
hurricanes are coming from.
440
01:13:04,583 --> 01:13:05,958
We don't know the power of them.
441
01:13:06,541 --> 01:13:08,416
We are going to be lost when these
442
01:13:08,416 --> 01:13:09,625
hurricanes comes and hit people.
443
01:13:09,625 --> 01:13:10,708
And unfortunately, people
444
01:13:10,708 --> 01:13:12,000
are going to die because of it.
445
01:13:12,250 --> 01:13:13,791
And who takes responsibility for that?
446
01:13:14,333 --> 01:13:15,250
Right? Is the government going to take
447
01:13:15,250 --> 01:13:16,500
responsibility because these programs
448
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:17,500
have been taken out?
449
01:13:17,916 --> 01:13:19,250
We always see that when a natural
450
01:13:19,250 --> 01:13:20,791
disaster comes, we see, oh, well, you
451
01:13:20,791 --> 01:13:22,750
know, the fire department got cut at a
452
01:13:22,750 --> 01:13:24,583
certain time because of whatever.
453
01:13:25,166 --> 01:13:25,916
Right. Cost savings.
454
01:13:26,166 --> 01:13:27,125
And then you're like, well, the wildfire
455
01:13:27,125 --> 01:13:28,583
came through and the fire department
456
01:13:28,583 --> 01:13:30,583
didn't have as many resources, right?
457
01:13:30,583 --> 01:13:31,666
Because they had just gone through a
458
01:13:31,666 --> 01:13:32,833
budget cut or something like that.
459
01:13:32,833 --> 01:13:34,500
We see this all the time after a natural
460
01:13:34,500 --> 01:13:35,458
disaster comes through.
461
01:13:35,916 --> 01:13:37,583
And instead of going in and saying, hey,
462
01:13:37,583 --> 01:13:39,125
we know we're going to have more natural
463
01:13:39,125 --> 01:13:41,666
disasters and we need to shore up that
464
01:13:41,666 --> 01:13:42,958
staff and those resources.
465
01:13:43,166 --> 01:13:44,375
No, they always do the opposite.
466
01:13:44,625 --> 01:13:45,958
It's extremely frustrating.
467
01:13:46,375 --> 01:13:48,583
But the real part here that really gets
468
01:13:48,583 --> 01:13:50,583
me is the fact that over a thousand
469
01:13:50,583 --> 01:13:52,666
people do not have jobs that had jobs
470
01:13:52,666 --> 01:13:53,708
just this past week.
471
01:13:54,208 --> 01:13:55,333
And it has nothing to do
472
01:13:55,333 --> 01:13:56,583
with the way they perform.
473
01:13:56,583 --> 01:13:57,791
These are very good scientists.
474
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,708
These are scientists who work as a public
475
01:14:00,708 --> 01:14:02,041
servant and they
476
01:14:02,041 --> 01:14:03,833
don't look at party lines.
477
01:14:04,208 --> 01:14:06,125
They look at what their project is.
478
01:14:06,125 --> 01:14:07,750
They take very good pride in their
479
01:14:07,750 --> 01:14:09,708
project and they do it for
480
01:14:09,708 --> 01:14:10,916
years and sometimes decades.
481
01:14:11,375 --> 01:14:14,291
And to just be taken away like that is
482
01:14:14,291 --> 01:14:15,750
extremely disappointing.
483
01:14:16,375 --> 01:14:17,416
Right. To get funding
484
01:14:17,416 --> 01:14:20,708
rescinded like that is horrible.
485
01:14:21,458 --> 01:14:23,541
And this is going to flood the job market
486
01:14:23,541 --> 01:14:25,250
like for organizations that may not be
487
01:14:25,250 --> 01:14:26,083
able to pay like they used
488
01:14:26,083 --> 01:14:27,166
to get paid in the government.
489
01:14:27,625 --> 01:14:29,125
I don't know what's going to happen to a
490
01:14:29,125 --> 01:14:29,791
lot of these people.
491
01:14:30,458 --> 01:14:32,000
This is extremely sad to
492
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,041
see what's going to happen.
493
01:14:33,416 --> 01:14:36,458
And the long term consequences of this is
494
01:14:36,458 --> 01:14:37,458
going to be very sad.
495
01:14:37,458 --> 01:14:39,625
It's going to be long after Donald Trump
496
01:14:39,625 --> 01:14:40,750
and J.D. Vance have had
497
01:14:40,750 --> 01:14:42,000
their administration in.
498
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:43,916
They'll be long gone after this,
499
01:14:43,916 --> 01:14:45,291
hopefully after these four years.
500
01:14:45,833 --> 01:14:47,666
And we are going to see a mess.
501
01:14:47,916 --> 01:14:49,208
We're going to see a mess that has to be
502
01:14:49,208 --> 01:14:50,583
cleaned up by the next administration,
503
01:14:50,875 --> 01:14:52,583
whether that be Democratic or Republican.
504
01:14:53,375 --> 01:14:55,416
And that is going to be harmful for the
505
01:14:55,416 --> 01:14:56,541
U.S. in the long term.
506
01:14:56,708 --> 01:14:58,750
I don't think people understand how
507
01:14:58,750 --> 01:15:00,500
harmful this is going to be even in the
508
01:15:00,500 --> 01:15:02,000
short term when we start to see these
509
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,666
programs get cut so quickly.
510
01:15:04,083 --> 01:15:04,583
So I'd love to hear
511
01:15:04,583 --> 01:15:05,541
your thoughts on this.
512
01:15:05,541 --> 01:15:07,000
Are you a government employee or used to
513
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:07,583
be a government boy?
514
01:15:07,583 --> 01:15:08,583
I'd love to hear your story.
515
01:15:08,583 --> 01:15:09,666
You can DM me at how
516
01:15:09,666 --> 01:15:10,541
to protect the ocean.
517
01:15:10,541 --> 01:15:12,208
You can put your comments down below on
518
01:15:12,208 --> 01:15:13,166
YouTube or on Spotify.
519
01:15:13,666 --> 01:15:15,708
Obviously you can DM me on Instagram at
520
01:15:15,708 --> 01:15:16,416
how to protect the ocean.
521
01:15:16,416 --> 01:15:18,041
But don't forget to subscribe and hit
522
01:15:18,041 --> 01:15:19,250
that notification bell so you don't miss
523
01:15:19,250 --> 01:15:21,500
any other episodes we put out Monday,
524
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:22,833
Wednesday and Friday.
525
01:15:23,083 --> 01:15:24,083
I would love to hear your thoughts.
526
01:15:24,083 --> 01:15:24,375
Of course.
527
01:15:24,375 --> 01:15:25,791
So please put them in the comments
528
01:15:25,791 --> 01:15:28,000
whether you're for these layoffs or
529
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:28,791
against these laughs.
530
01:15:28,791 --> 01:15:29,458
I'd love to hear your
531
01:15:29,458 --> 01:15:30,166
thoughts regardless.
532
01:15:30,625 --> 01:15:31,708
And I want to thank you so much for
533
01:15:31,708 --> 01:15:33,375
joining me on today's episode of the how
534
01:15:33,375 --> 01:15:34,541
to protect the ocean podcast.
535
01:15:34,541 --> 01:15:35,791
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the true
536
01:15:35,791 --> 01:15:36,583
North strong and free.
537
01:15:36,875 --> 01:15:37,750
Have a good day.
538
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:38,416
I'll talk to you next
539
01:15:38,416 --> 01:15:39,541
time and happy conservation.
01:00:00,625 --> 01:00:02,500
We need to talk about these cuts are
2
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happening to NOAA and EPA.
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Over a thousand people have been fired
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from both of these departments that
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provide so much critical research and
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protections and enforcements for
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environmental regulations
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that are out to protect you.
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We're gonna talk about on today's episode
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of the how to protect the ocean podcast.
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Let's start the show.
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Hey everybody, welcome back to another
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exciting episode of the how
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to protect the ocean podcast.
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I'm your host Andrew Lewin.
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This is the podcast where you find out
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what's happening with the ocean how you
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can speak up for the
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ocean what you can do
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to live for a better ocean by taking
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action and on today's episode
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we're gonna be talking about how the
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ocean is being affected by the lack of
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people that used to be able to do
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research critical research be
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able to predict weather be able to manage
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fisheries be able to look after and model
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climate change be able to enforce
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Regulations for the clean water and the
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Clean Air Act that
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are designed to protect
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US citizens as well as other people
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around the world now, they're gone
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They are no longer employed with NOAA or
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the EPA and we need to talk about it on
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today's episode because this is not good
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This is going to have long-term effects
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before we get into those effects
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We are going to talk about what actually
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happened in this sort of battle for
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science this war against science
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So recent mass layoffs at the NOAA so the
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National Oceanographic and Atmospheric
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Administration and the Environmental
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Protection Agency EPA are poised to have
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significant long-term effects on
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environmental research in the United
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States and over the next decade
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So in late February this past week, we
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saw about 880 NOAA employees accounting
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for about 7.3% of its workforce laid off
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These layoffs include critical personnel
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for divisions such as the National
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Hurricane Center and the
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Storm Prediction Center
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Notably 25% of the Environmental Modeling
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Center staff were laid off and these
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reductions are predicted to impair NOAA's
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capability to provide accurate weather
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forecasts and conduct essential climate
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research potentially compromising public
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safety and effectiveness of
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disaster response mechanisms
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The layoffs also affected NOAA's support
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for external research institutions
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So for example, the Scripps Institute of
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Oceanography, which is a huge research
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institute in San Diego
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They received $42 million from NOAA in
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the fiscal year of 2023 and 2024 now
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faces uncertainty regarding future
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funding as all the
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funding have been taken away
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This jeopardizes ongoing research
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projects and development for the
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environmental studies
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A lot of research graduate students, a
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lot of research that goes on to look at
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coastal modeling, looks at water quality,
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looks at conservation, a lot of different
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aspects will be affected
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through Scripps almost immediately
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And this is a big problem
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The EPA also experienced significant
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staff reductions with over 300
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probationary employees terminated
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These cuts targeted personnel responsible
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for enforcing the regulations of the
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Clean Water and Clean Air Acts
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Those involved in
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reviewing environmental permits
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The loss of these employees could delay
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critical oversight functions and hinder
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timely responses to pollution and
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environmental disasters
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Thereby affecting the agency's ability to
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maintain environmental safeguards and
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public health protections
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This is serious guys
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I don't think I've ever seen cuts this
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big since we saw them in Canada happen a
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number of years ago, about a decade ago
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When Stephen Harper was prime minister
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with the conservatives, they made drastic
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cuts, but there was a
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strategy involved around it
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It's a very similar strategy to what's
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going on with the environmental
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reductions that are happening in the US
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It was all for oil and gas
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In Canada, about a decade ago, there was
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a pipeline being built from the tar sands
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in Alberta all the way to the coast in BC
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The reason why it took so long to do it
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is they had to cross these rivers and
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water crossings and so forth
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And when you have to do that, that
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automatically triggers an environmental
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assessment with those
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environmental assessment
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You look at species at risk. You look at
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fish habitat to cover the fisheries act,
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the species at risk act and those were
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hindering the production of this pipeline
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So what the government decided to do
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under pressure of oil and gas companies,
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they said, hey, you know what we're
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actually going to do?
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We're going to change the law. We're
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actually going to go in and we're going
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to change the fisheries act.
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They want to change the species at risk
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act, but they weren't able to do it in
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time. They got voted out
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before they could do it.
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But they changed the fisheries act to
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changing the wording of it. We used to be
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able to protect fish habitat.
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Then they wanted to change it. They said
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we're going to change that to protect
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commercially, recreationally and
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aboriginally commercial species that were
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actually fish that had a 30 year history
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of being fish, which took out a lot of
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the rivers and lake systems in Canada out
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of the running because it's just some of
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the fisheries hadn't been
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established for over 30 years.
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So that allowed the government to give
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permits faster for these oil and gas
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companies, no matter what they were going
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over, no matter what fish habitat they
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were destroying. Now, obviously, if you
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look at any conservation manual, you look
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at any fisheries site or talk to any
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fisheries scientists, they're going to
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say the best thing to do to protect
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fisheries is to protect their habitat
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because without their habitat, you're not
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going to have these fish.
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The government didn't care about this.
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They wanted this pipeline to go through.
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There was a lot of freedom of
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information. It was a big controversy
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that I've gone into in past episodes.
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I'm just giving you the rundown here. But
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regardless what happened, they changed
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the law and when they changed the law,
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they actually affected all the people
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that were under those sections.
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So we used to have like a section under
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the science that looked at environmental
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permits that were just looking at anybody
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who wants to develop where they would
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affect fisheries habitat.
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Now they didn't have to care about
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fisheries habitat. They just had to care
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about the recreational aboriginal viable
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species that were actually had a history
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of 30 years being fished.
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So now they actually couldn't have a fish
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habitat sector. They had to destroy that
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sector. They took it away and then they
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actually built up a new one. I think it
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was called fisheries protection program.
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That program was redesigned. It was very
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similar to what you did is
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just redesign under the new act.
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Now, since then, the Trudeau government
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came in and the first thing they did is
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they reviewed the fisheries act and they
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made it better. They put the fish habitat
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back in and they put it back. They put a
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lot of other things in there
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as well to make it stronger.
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The problem was it took five years for
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them to do that after they got into power
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because anything in government when
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you're putting a lot together, you have
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to take your time. You have to go through
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a specific process to get it done. All
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the development projects actually had
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went through really quickly and it could
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have destroyed fish habitat. So we had
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that five-year gap. Plus now you got to
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put it all together. It was ridiculous to
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be honest. It was really bad that we went
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to see and then after this happened when
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they put in that new division of the
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science section, the government, they had
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to rehire everybody. So what they did is they laid people off.
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Luckily, we were unionized. They laid
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people off and they couldn't get like
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just lay them off and you're done. You
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don't have a job. They had to give you
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choices of where you want to apply to,
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but you could move all over the country
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wherever you want to. So a lot of people
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got moved because they were forced to. So
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they had to move their homes. They had to
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move away from their family and friends
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and then some of them just actually just
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retired. A lot of them retired. They were
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on the cusp of retiring anyway, but it
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was all in the game of changing the law
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so that they can get this pipeline
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through. It was all about oil and gas and let's not get into the problem.
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So they were kind of twisted. This is
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about oil and gas and mining and
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development and natural resource
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development. That's what it is in the
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states right now. We are seeing this
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happen. We're seeing the Marine Mount
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Protection Act. That's going to be
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changed. We're seeing the clean water and
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the clean air acts. A lot of those
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regulations were rescinded. They were
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just taken out just like they were in the
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first Trump administration. I think it
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was like hundreds of different
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regulations were not applicable anymore
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and they were just taken out based on
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executive order. So now those two things
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that we looked at, the Marine Mount
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Protection Act that was
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very big when it came to oil and gas and
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seismic surveying, which is all about oil
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and gas had to do with you can't harass
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or kill or hurt harm a marine mammal,
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even especially when you're doing oil and
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gas. So that was a big hindrance to oil
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and gas production and just building and
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finding and drilling new wells. But then
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you also have the clean air and clean
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water act. So if you wanted to do coal
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plants or if you wanted to have mining,
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they had to have specific regulations
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that met criteria to meet the law so that they could have a better
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water. So that's why I think that they
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didn't pollute the air or the water in
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and around these mining areas or any kind
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of fossil fuel areas or any kind of
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chemical plant. Really like think about
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New York City, the harbor that got
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cleaned up over a number of years over
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decades because of things like the clean
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water act. You weren't allowed to dispose
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of chemicals or anything bad in the water
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and that harbor got cleaned up so much so
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that humpbacks are
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coming back and you see men.
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So you enjoy that water a lot better and
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it just becomes a nicer area to visit in
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a nice area to see and you have a healthy
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01:08:31,875 --> 01:08:33,750
ecosystem. But people don't care about
276
01:08:33,750 --> 01:08:35,375
that these days. People care about more
277
01:08:35,375 --> 01:08:37,250
oil and gas development and fossil fuel
278
01:08:37,250 --> 01:08:38,458
development. According to this
279
01:08:38,458 --> 01:08:39,875
administration, they're going to drill
280
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:42,041
baby drill. They care about mining and
281
01:08:42,041 --> 01:08:44,333
they care about anything that will harm
282
01:08:44,333 --> 01:08:46,375
the environment, it seems. And they're
283
01:08:46,375 --> 01:08:48,083
getting rid of the regulations to do
284
01:08:48,083 --> 01:08:50,125
that. And one of the things to do, not
285
01:08:50,125 --> 01:08:51,166
only are you getting rid of the
286
01:08:51,166 --> 01:08:53,583
regulations and changing the law, but
287
01:08:53,583 --> 01:08:54,500
you're also getting rid of
288
01:08:54,500 --> 01:08:55,833
the people who have the same
289
01:08:55,833 --> 01:08:57,833
skills that will actually help build
290
01:08:57,833 --> 01:08:59,750
these laws or help enforce these laws
291
01:08:59,750 --> 01:09:02,041
further or make these laws better to
292
01:09:02,041 --> 01:09:04,000
protect the environment and protect US
293
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,875
citizens. And I think that's where it
294
01:09:05,875 --> 01:09:08,083
really comes down to. So what I wanted to
295
01:09:08,083 --> 01:09:10,208
know was I was like, what are the long
296
01:09:10,208 --> 01:09:13,708
term impacts of removing over a thousand
297
01:09:13,708 --> 01:09:17,000
people from the workforce in and around
298
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,375
environmental departments such as NOAA
299
01:09:19,375 --> 01:09:21,125
and such as the EPA. I just kind of
300
01:09:21,125 --> 01:09:22,541
looked at a couple of things, a couple
301
01:09:22,541 --> 01:09:24,541
sources here that talked about it and
302
01:09:24,541 --> 01:09:25,833
I'll list those sources in the
303
01:09:25,875 --> 01:09:27,541
show notes. But one is diminishing
304
01:09:27,541 --> 01:09:29,208
research capacity. Obviously, the
305
01:09:29,208 --> 01:09:30,708
reduction of skilled scientists and
306
01:09:30,708 --> 01:09:32,833
researchers will likely slow progress of
307
01:09:32,833 --> 01:09:35,083
environmental studies of leading gaps in
308
01:09:35,083 --> 01:09:37,000
data and reduced understanding of
309
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,500
environmental changes. The other was
310
01:09:39,500 --> 01:09:41,791
compromised public safety with fewer
311
01:09:41,791 --> 01:09:43,208
experts monitoring and predicting
312
01:09:43,208 --> 01:09:45,083
environmental hazards. Communities may
313
01:09:45,083 --> 01:09:47,541
face increased risk from events such as
314
01:09:47,541 --> 01:09:49,458
hurricanes, wildfires and industrial
315
01:09:49,458 --> 01:09:51,458
pollution. We just saw what happened in
316
01:09:51,458 --> 01:09:53,250
the wildfires in Pasadena. We saw how
317
01:09:53,250 --> 01:09:55,125
quickly that fire came through without
318
01:09:55,125 --> 01:09:55,833
warning people that they were
319
01:09:55,875 --> 01:10:04,958
going to be affected. Especially when
320
01:10:04,958 --> 01:10:06,250
you're looking at when the wind are going
321
01:10:06,250 --> 01:10:07,541
to come up and you can predict those
322
01:10:07,541 --> 01:10:09,666
winds, what's going to happen there. And
323
01:10:09,666 --> 01:10:10,750
the last one is the erosion of
324
01:10:10,750 --> 01:10:12,625
institutional knowledge. So the departure
325
01:10:12,625 --> 01:10:14,750
of experienced personnel results in the
326
01:10:14,750 --> 01:10:16,833
loss of valuable institutional knowledge
327
01:10:16,833 --> 01:10:18,708
which is crucial for mentoring new
328
01:10:18,708 --> 01:10:20,958
scientists and maintaining the continuity
329
01:10:20,958 --> 01:10:23,958
of long term research projects. When you
330
01:10:23,958 --> 01:10:25,500
are in government, you have these
331
01:10:25,500 --> 01:10:25,833
projects. It's very important to understand that you have a particular
332
01:10:25,833 --> 01:10:27,458
And when you come in as a
333
01:10:27,458 --> 01:10:28,625
young scientist in government,
334
01:10:28,625 --> 01:10:30,208
you usually get assigned to a project.
335
01:10:30,208 --> 01:10:30,791
Some of these projects
336
01:10:30,791 --> 01:10:32,291
are five years, three years.
337
01:10:32,583 --> 01:10:33,208
Some of these have
338
01:10:33,208 --> 01:10:34,833
been going on for 50 years
339
01:10:34,833 --> 01:10:36,000
in monitoring and so forth.
340
01:10:36,250 --> 01:10:37,291
If you lose that, you
341
01:10:37,291 --> 01:10:38,250
lose those five, 10 years,
342
01:10:38,250 --> 01:10:39,375
or you eliminate those programs,
343
01:10:39,791 --> 01:10:41,250
or even you eliminate the scientists
344
01:10:41,250 --> 01:10:42,791
that have been there for a long time,
345
01:10:43,041 --> 01:10:43,958
and you have these new
346
01:10:43,958 --> 01:10:44,916
people who are coming in,
347
01:10:45,083 --> 01:10:46,791
you're not getting the experience
348
01:10:47,083 --> 01:10:48,208
that the older scientists
349
01:10:48,208 --> 01:10:49,666
would be able to pass down
350
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:52,083
because they are gone, essentially.
351
01:10:52,333 --> 01:10:54,375
Or you lose that young
352
01:10:54,375 --> 01:10:55,708
cohort that came through
353
01:10:55,750 --> 01:10:56,666
because they were the
354
01:10:56,666 --> 01:10:57,458
last ones to get on.
355
01:10:57,458 --> 01:10:57,833
So they're the first
356
01:10:57,833 --> 01:10:59,083
ones to get off in layoffs.
357
01:10:59,708 --> 01:11:00,791
And so now you have a
358
01:11:00,791 --> 01:11:02,041
gap of the generation
359
01:11:02,291 --> 01:11:03,083
that doesn't know what
360
01:11:03,083 --> 01:11:04,541
they're doing when they get back in.
361
01:11:04,541 --> 01:11:06,125
And hopefully they'll be able to rehire
362
01:11:06,125 --> 01:11:07,000
for those positions.
363
01:11:07,458 --> 01:11:08,291
It's gonna be expensive,
364
01:11:08,291 --> 01:11:08,875
it's gonna be difficult,
365
01:11:08,875 --> 01:11:09,916
but all that data
366
01:11:09,916 --> 01:11:11,291
that you lose in between
367
01:11:11,291 --> 01:11:12,375
getting rid of people
368
01:11:12,375 --> 01:11:14,041
who've been there over 30 years,
369
01:11:14,041 --> 01:11:15,375
or even 20 or even 15 or
370
01:11:15,375 --> 01:11:16,666
even 10, or even just like two,
371
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:18,541
you lose that institutional knowledge
372
01:11:18,541 --> 01:11:19,375
and you lose that
373
01:11:19,375 --> 01:11:21,375
ability to train and mentor
374
01:11:21,833 --> 01:11:23,291
new scientists that are coming through
375
01:11:23,375 --> 01:11:24,375
that'll allow them to be
376
01:11:24,375 --> 01:11:25,791
better than the other scientists
377
01:11:25,791 --> 01:11:26,500
when they first came in.
378
01:11:26,500 --> 01:11:27,083
That's the whole point
379
01:11:27,083 --> 01:11:28,333
is make science better,
380
01:11:28,666 --> 01:11:30,208
but you're not able to do that when
381
01:11:30,208 --> 01:11:31,958
you're losing these gaps of people.
382
01:11:32,375 --> 01:11:33,000
It's not as if these
383
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,000
layoffs are based on performance.
384
01:11:35,208 --> 01:11:37,500
These layoffs are based on what saves the
385
01:11:37,500 --> 01:11:39,000
government the most money,
386
01:11:39,208 --> 01:11:42,000
but also they never look at what will
387
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:43,750
destroy the government
388
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:45,083
or these programs or
389
01:11:45,083 --> 01:11:46,041
will hurt the citizens.
390
01:11:46,375 --> 01:11:48,125
And we've already seen some examples that
391
01:11:48,125 --> 01:11:50,250
Elon Musk himself has admitted to.
392
01:11:50,416 --> 01:11:52,375
Those canceled an Ebola program,
393
01:11:52,708 --> 01:11:54,166
and they realize that they
394
01:11:54,166 --> 01:11:55,375
were like, Oh, hold on a second.
395
01:11:55,375 --> 01:11:56,291
We actually need that.
396
01:11:56,291 --> 01:11:57,583
So we're gonna bring those people back
397
01:11:57,583 --> 01:11:58,291
and we're gonna put the
398
01:11:58,291 --> 01:11:59,375
bullet program back out.
399
01:11:59,375 --> 01:12:00,041
So it's okay.
400
01:12:00,041 --> 01:12:01,916
We make mistakes even said, but we will
401
01:12:01,916 --> 01:12:03,583
try and rectify them as soon as possible.
402
01:12:03,583 --> 01:12:04,750
It just goes to show that they're not
403
01:12:04,750 --> 01:12:06,625
really looking at stuff that's critical.
404
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:08,375
They're just going through and they're
405
01:12:08,375 --> 01:12:09,541
just taking away things that
406
01:12:09,541 --> 01:12:10,708
they think is a lot of money.
407
01:12:11,166 --> 01:12:12,333
And if it's a lot of money, they can save
408
01:12:12,333 --> 01:12:14,125
them a lot of money, then they'll do it.
409
01:12:14,333 --> 01:12:16,416
It's really coming at it from a very tech
410
01:12:16,416 --> 01:12:18,833
and private sector format,
411
01:12:18,958 --> 01:12:20,541
which you can't do in the public sector
412
01:12:20,541 --> 01:12:21,875
because these programs
413
01:12:22,333 --> 01:12:23,583
that people know nothing about these
414
01:12:23,583 --> 01:12:24,666
people who are coming in,
415
01:12:24,666 --> 01:12:26,000
they know nothing about they know nothing
416
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:26,958
about their significance.
417
01:12:26,958 --> 01:12:28,000
They're just looking at the price tag.
418
01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:30,333
They have no idea what this can do in
419
01:12:30,333 --> 01:12:32,458
terms of harm for a lot of people taking
420
01:12:32,458 --> 01:12:33,958
away an Ebola program,
421
01:12:34,375 --> 01:12:35,291
you know, give it to them.
422
01:12:35,291 --> 01:12:35,916
They put it back.
423
01:12:36,125 --> 01:12:37,791
But why take it away in the first place?
424
01:12:37,791 --> 01:12:38,416
Why don't you take your
425
01:12:38,416 --> 01:12:40,125
time go through each program?
426
01:12:40,125 --> 01:12:40,958
They're just kind of coming through
427
01:12:40,958 --> 01:12:42,458
quickly quickly and cutting,
428
01:12:42,458 --> 01:12:44,208
but then they don't realize what mistakes
429
01:12:44,208 --> 01:12:45,833
they're making in the future.
430
01:12:46,125 --> 01:12:48,291
Taking away people who model and predict
431
01:12:48,291 --> 01:12:50,291
weather is very, very dangerous.
432
01:12:50,333 --> 01:12:52,416
We just talked to Dave Jones last episode
433
01:12:52,416 --> 01:12:55,000
and what that meant for the weather
434
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,500
service and for NOAA and
435
01:12:56,500 --> 01:12:57,750
for satellites and for NASA.
436
01:12:58,541 --> 01:13:00,625
These are our programs that are critical
437
01:13:00,625 --> 01:13:02,375
to U.S. citizen safety.
438
01:13:02,958 --> 01:13:03,875
We don't know where these
439
01:13:03,875 --> 01:13:04,583
hurricanes are coming from.
440
01:13:04,583 --> 01:13:05,958
We don't know the power of them.
441
01:13:06,541 --> 01:13:08,416
We are going to be lost when these
442
01:13:08,416 --> 01:13:09,625
hurricanes comes and hit people.
443
01:13:09,625 --> 01:13:10,708
And unfortunately, people
444
01:13:10,708 --> 01:13:12,000
are going to die because of it.
445
01:13:12,250 --> 01:13:13,791
And who takes responsibility for that?
446
01:13:14,333 --> 01:13:15,250
Right? Is the government going to take
447
01:13:15,250 --> 01:13:16,500
responsibility because these programs
448
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:17,500
have been taken out?
449
01:13:17,916 --> 01:13:19,250
We always see that when a natural
450
01:13:19,250 --> 01:13:20,791
disaster comes, we see, oh, well, you
451
01:13:20,791 --> 01:13:22,750
know, the fire department got cut at a
452
01:13:22,750 --> 01:13:24,583
certain time because of whatever.
453
01:13:25,166 --> 01:13:25,916
Right. Cost savings.
454
01:13:26,166 --> 01:13:27,125
And then you're like, well, the wildfire
455
01:13:27,125 --> 01:13:28,583
came through and the fire department
456
01:13:28,583 --> 01:13:30,583
didn't have as many resources, right?
457
01:13:30,583 --> 01:13:31,666
Because they had just gone through a
458
01:13:31,666 --> 01:13:32,833
budget cut or something like that.
459
01:13:32,833 --> 01:13:34,500
We see this all the time after a natural
460
01:13:34,500 --> 01:13:35,458
disaster comes through.
461
01:13:35,916 --> 01:13:37,583
And instead of going in and saying, hey,
462
01:13:37,583 --> 01:13:39,125
we know we're going to have more natural
463
01:13:39,125 --> 01:13:41,666
disasters and we need to shore up that
464
01:13:41,666 --> 01:13:42,958
staff and those resources.
465
01:13:43,166 --> 01:13:44,375
No, they always do the opposite.
466
01:13:44,625 --> 01:13:45,958
It's extremely frustrating.
467
01:13:46,375 --> 01:13:48,583
But the real part here that really gets
468
01:13:48,583 --> 01:13:50,583
me is the fact that over a thousand
469
01:13:50,583 --> 01:13:52,666
people do not have jobs that had jobs
470
01:13:52,666 --> 01:13:53,708
just this past week.
471
01:13:54,208 --> 01:13:55,333
And it has nothing to do
472
01:13:55,333 --> 01:13:56,583
with the way they perform.
473
01:13:56,583 --> 01:13:57,791
These are very good scientists.
474
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,708
These are scientists who work as a public
475
01:14:00,708 --> 01:14:02,041
servant and they
476
01:14:02,041 --> 01:14:03,833
don't look at party lines.
477
01:14:04,208 --> 01:14:06,125
They look at what their project is.
478
01:14:06,125 --> 01:14:07,750
They take very good pride in their
479
01:14:07,750 --> 01:14:09,708
project and they do it for
480
01:14:09,708 --> 01:14:10,916
years and sometimes decades.
481
01:14:11,375 --> 01:14:14,291
And to just be taken away like that is
482
01:14:14,291 --> 01:14:15,750
extremely disappointing.
483
01:14:16,375 --> 01:14:17,416
Right. To get funding
484
01:14:17,416 --> 01:14:20,708
rescinded like that is horrible.
485
01:14:21,458 --> 01:14:23,541
And this is going to flood the job market
486
01:14:23,541 --> 01:14:25,250
like for organizations that may not be
487
01:14:25,250 --> 01:14:26,083
able to pay like they used
488
01:14:26,083 --> 01:14:27,166
to get paid in the government.
489
01:14:27,625 --> 01:14:29,125
I don't know what's going to happen to a
490
01:14:29,125 --> 01:14:29,791
lot of these people.
491
01:14:30,458 --> 01:14:32,000
This is extremely sad to
492
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,041
see what's going to happen.
493
01:14:33,416 --> 01:14:36,458
And the long term consequences of this is
494
01:14:36,458 --> 01:14:37,458
going to be very sad.
495
01:14:37,458 --> 01:14:39,625
It's going to be long after Donald Trump
496
01:14:39,625 --> 01:14:40,750
and J.D. Vance have had
497
01:14:40,750 --> 01:14:42,000
their administration in.
498
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:43,916
They'll be long gone after this,
499
01:14:43,916 --> 01:14:45,291
hopefully after these four years.
500
01:14:45,833 --> 01:14:47,666
And we are going to see a mess.
501
01:14:47,916 --> 01:14:49,208
We're going to see a mess that has to be
502
01:14:49,208 --> 01:14:50,583
cleaned up by the next administration,
503
01:14:50,875 --> 01:14:52,583
whether that be Democratic or Republican.
504
01:14:53,375 --> 01:14:55,416
And that is going to be harmful for the
505
01:14:55,416 --> 01:14:56,541
U.S. in the long term.
506
01:14:56,708 --> 01:14:58,750
I don't think people understand how
507
01:14:58,750 --> 01:15:00,500
harmful this is going to be even in the
508
01:15:00,500 --> 01:15:02,000
short term when we start to see these
509
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:03,666
programs get cut so quickly.
510
01:15:04,083 --> 01:15:04,583
So I'd love to hear
511
01:15:04,583 --> 01:15:05,541
your thoughts on this.
512
01:15:05,541 --> 01:15:07,000
Are you a government employee or used to
513
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:07,583
be a government boy?
514
01:15:07,583 --> 01:15:08,583
I'd love to hear your story.
515
01:15:08,583 --> 01:15:09,666
You can DM me at how
516
01:15:09,666 --> 01:15:10,541
to protect the ocean.
517
01:15:10,541 --> 01:15:12,208
You can put your comments down below on
518
01:15:12,208 --> 01:15:13,166
YouTube or on Spotify.
519
01:15:13,666 --> 01:15:15,708
Obviously you can DM me on Instagram at
520
01:15:15,708 --> 01:15:16,416
how to protect the ocean.
521
01:15:16,416 --> 01:15:18,041
But don't forget to subscribe and hit
522
01:15:18,041 --> 01:15:19,250
that notification bell so you don't miss
523
01:15:19,250 --> 01:15:21,500
any other episodes we put out Monday,
524
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:22,833
Wednesday and Friday.
525
01:15:23,083 --> 01:15:24,083
I would love to hear your thoughts.
526
01:15:24,083 --> 01:15:24,375
Of course.
527
01:15:24,375 --> 01:15:25,791
So please put them in the comments
528
01:15:25,791 --> 01:15:28,000
whether you're for these layoffs or
529
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:28,791
against these laughs.
530
01:15:28,791 --> 01:15:29,458
I'd love to hear your
531
01:15:29,458 --> 01:15:30,166
thoughts regardless.
532
01:15:30,625 --> 01:15:31,708
And I want to thank you so much for
533
01:15:31,708 --> 01:15:33,375
joining me on today's episode of the how
534
01:15:33,375 --> 01:15:34,541
to protect the ocean podcast.
535
01:15:34,541 --> 01:15:35,791
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the true
536
01:15:35,791 --> 01:15:36,583
North strong and free.
537
01:15:36,875 --> 01:15:37,750
Have a good day.
538
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:38,416
I'll talk to you next
539
01:15:38,416 --> 01:15:39,541
time and happy conservation.
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