Navigating the Conference Circuit: Insights from Dr. Isla Hodgson on Back-to-Back Marine Conservation Events

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Marine conferences are a place where you can have a lot of fun.

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You can meet new people. You can meet old friends and colleagues. You

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can establish new collaborations. But it's also a place

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where it can be overwhelming. It can be intimidating for

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a lot of people, especially those who are introverts. And it

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could be a drain on your social battery. So

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when you do and prepare for a conference that's usually a

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week long in a place that's far away, you know that

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you're going to have to rest up and you know you're going to have to go through

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all of those emotions when you go into a conference. But

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imagine not only doing one conference but two conferences in a row

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where you have to do virtually the same thing in terms of interacting,

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mingling, doing presentations. It's a lot. So

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I was a little taken back when I heard a

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few people went to the International Marine Conservation Congress that

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happened in October earlier this month, as well as the

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European Elasmobranch Society, doing it all

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together in a span of two weeks. Well,

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I was able to talk to one of the people who were able to

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do that, Dr. Ayla Hodgson. She is not only a

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podcaster, but a fellow scientist, a conservationist.

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She works with the Save Our Seas Foundation, and she's here today to

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tell us how she got through two weeks of conferences, international

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conferences, where she played a big role and had multiple, I

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guess, plans and goals for each one of those conferences. So

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we're going to talk to Ayla on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm

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your host Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the

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ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live

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for a better ocean by taking action. On today's

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episode, we're going to be talking about conferences because that is one

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of the places where I have to admit I flourish. I enjoy

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going to conferences. I haven't been to a conference in a long time because my full-time

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job is not really in the marine science and conservation world although

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the podcasting can lend me to that but i haven't been in a while

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covid and all these other things it gets expensive sometimes but when

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you do and when people are able to go and be

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at a conference like the international marine conservation congress or the

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European Alasdair Brank Association Conference. It

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is a whirlwind. It is one of those things where your adrenaline

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is keeping you through the entire week or however many days

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the conference is. You're mingling with people, you're

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sitting in on a number of different sessions that you have to plan

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out really quickly because some of them are going in parallel and you have to

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jump from session to session to session. There's a lot of

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thinking, there's a lot of It's a great place to meet old friends, make new friends, colleagues,

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so forth. but

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it can be intense. And when I heard that Ayla had

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been to two conferences, not just one, but two international

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conferences, pretty much over a span of two weeks, I

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had to find out how she did it and what she was up to. And in this conversation, we

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not only talk about each of those conferences and what her role is and

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what her goals were for each of those conferences, we also talk

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about her role with Save Our Seas Foundation and

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her podcasting and how that all integrates with these with

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the conversations that happened at these conferences. So

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it's a great conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Isla is such an

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amazing person, so I hope you enjoy it as much as I did doing

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the interview. Enjoy, and here's the interview. Enjoy, and

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I will talk to you after. Hey, Isla, welcome to the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about going

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Hi, Andrew. Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure. And

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I am not too sure. We've just discussed that

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I feel like my brain's kind of operating on a bit of a lag

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at the moment. So we'll see how this goes. But yeah,

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always ready to talk about the ocean,

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nice i love it i think it's uh you know it's always something when

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going to a conference is always exciting to go because you're seeing people that you haven't seen

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in a while you get to see all your colleagues your friends you make friends

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there you collaborations happen but it definitely uh

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tugs on your in-person

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battery, and emotional battery, and just sort of

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social battery. And it's always a difficult thing to

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continue on. And to do one is one thing. That's like a week.

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And then to do another one right after, that's

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a feat I've never done before. I don't know if I'll ever be in a position to

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do that, but that's interesting. And I wanted to have you

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on to talk about that. But before we get to

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all of that, Isla, why don't you just let the audience know who you are

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Sure thing. So I guess I can say I wear two

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main hats, if you like. So my first hat is

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I am a marine social scientist. So I work on the

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management and governance of marine protected areas. So

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a lot of human dimensions kind of stuff. I work a lot with fisheries, work

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a lot with government agencies, and try and understand

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how we can do things better, basically. So

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that's one hat. And then my other hat is

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I am science communicator for the Save Our Seas Foundation. So

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that involves a number of different things. Mainly, I produce

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and host their podcast, World of Sharks. I

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hope I'm all right to promote another podcast on your podcast. But

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do a lot of other fun things as well. So I write

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a lot for the foundation. Pretty much any time they need any

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form of shark science communicated, that's me doing

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that. So yeah, so they're kind of my two main

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hats. So one is research and the other

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is basically get to talk about sharks we're living, which is super fun.

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I mean, you can't go wrong with that when you get to talk about sharks for

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a living. It's pretty fun. We've had

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you on the Beyond Jaws podcast, Dave and I, and so I'm

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going to link in the show notes to that podcast so everybody

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can get to know you a little bit more in your career because we went in-depth

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in that career. And of course, we've done

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a lot of interviews with people from Save Our Seas. So

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those are all linked to those in the show notes as well. So people can get to know

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Save Our Seas. One of the things that I realized from Save Our Seas last

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year, I went to the 20th anniversary when they had it

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in Fort Lauderdale. and it was like, you

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know, just celebrating Save Our Seas and everybody that I talked to there

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said my project was kind of way out there and Save Our Seas funded

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it and it was awesome and it actually

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helped their career along, it helped launch their career and I

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think that was at, you know, that, you don't get to see

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that a lot with foundations, and I think Save Our Seas is

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one of those foundations that is just able to do that time after time,

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and they just take a chance on the person, on the project, and

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see that it's necessary, but it's not, it may not be under the

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regular guidance of a lot of other, you know, granting foundations and so

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forth. So, being able, like James has an act, the team has an act

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for picking out people and picking out projects that

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are really great. And I love, you know, always talking

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about them because you guys do some great work. Not only from

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a granting and funding perspective, but your science

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communication teams are pretty cool too. So, obviously, you're

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one of them. a part of the team, but it's amazing to be

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able to get to have you on the podcast and

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talking about the podcast. Let's actually do that for a little bit because part

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of the science communication thing, and you know,

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you asked, is it okay to promote the podcast? I am always

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of the value of like, we need

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more podcasts. We need people to have different voices to speak

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up. We need to have people to go on different podcasts because you never

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know who's gonna love the hosts, the

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subject matter, and we just need a diverse amount and

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I think it's great. So why don't we just talk a little bit about the podcast. How did it all

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So I'll say one thing first as well. Thank you so much

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for those kind words about the foundation. It's definitely something that I

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feel as well working for them. They're just such an awesome foundation

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to work for and an amazing team to be part of. A

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lot of people are quite surprised to find out we're a relatively small team. There's

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not that many of us, but very passionate and

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driven people. And one of the things the

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foundation prides itself on and is very important to us is,

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like you said, is seeing the potential in people and especially supporting

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people in the early stages of their And speaking,

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we're going to go into these conferences later on, but one of the nicest things for me

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about going to these conferences is just seeing how many

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people's, how many amazing people we

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have supported and helped to get started. And that

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is one of the core elements of the podcast as well. And

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so World of Sharks, formerly The Whole Tooth, we

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started out calling it The Whole Tooth. It actually started

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as a little YouTube series. So back

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in the day, in 2019, I actually met our

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current CEO, James Lee, on a boat in the middle

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of the Hebrides looking for basking sharks. And

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that's how I got an introduction to the Save Our

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Seas Foundation, which is probably the most perfect introduction you could have.

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And then in 2020, when COVID

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hit and everybody was at home and there was a lot of,

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you know, parents trying to keep their children entertained and

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also children, you know, still trying to learn In incredibly

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difficult circumstances, the Save Our Seas Foundation

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thought it might be quite a cool idea to do a YouTube series

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where young people could actually send their questions about

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sharks into the foundation and we would assign that to

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an expert or a professional in

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the field who could answer their question. And I

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was brought on as like the host of that. So I'd answer some of the questions, but

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I would also provide a little link in between. And these

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videos are, they're still up on YouTube. They're

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so adorable. There's like kids from all over the world sending in

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these amazing questions. And then, you know, these kind of

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big name scientists and our amazing project leaders answering

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those questions. But we did about five episodes

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and then James and I kind of came together and said,

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well, we actually think this would be really cool as a

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podcast. So people can send in their questions about sharks

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and rather than it be answered, you know, in a

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small YouTube or a small video clip, we

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were aiming only to have the video clips, you know, to one minute. We

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actually have a whole, you know, 45 minutes to an hour

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where we kind of dive into this topic and kind of really go deep into it.

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And so that's how the podcast started. And

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it's kind of really evolved and grown over the years. We

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haven't quite reached our 100th episode. Congratulations to you and

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Dave for reaching 100 episodes of Beyond Jaws. I think

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Last week. Huge achievement, amazing. But

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yeah, so we're at about, we're coming up to our 70th episode.

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And yeah, we basically cover

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all different topics related to sharks. Our primary

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aim is to make shark science and shark conservation as

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accessible and fun and engaging to as

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wide an audience as possible. And so my role as the

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host is to kind of really put myself in the position of the

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listener and try to really break down those

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concepts as best that I can. And

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we have an expert on every week

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in the field of shark science, conservation, education and storytelling.

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to kind of take us on a deep dive into a different part

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of this kind of amazing world of sharks, if you like. So we

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cover everything from shark physiology to, you

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know, shark ecology. So where do they go? What do

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they do? You know, where do sharks give birth? All of those kinds

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of questions. But we also cover some more serious

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topics like their kind of conservation as well. So what are

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the primary threats to sharks and how can we move past those? And

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we have episodes focused on particular species. So we just

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did an episode on Megalodon, which was a

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lot of fun to kind of dive into, into the life of this prehistoric

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shark. And, and yeah, and

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also do episodes kind of focused around the projects of

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our project leaders. So the, you know, the, the incredible people

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that the Save Our Seas Foundation fund. and try

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and communicate their work to a wider audience and

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connect them with the public. So yeah, we cover a whole range

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of different topics. And we keep joking that we thought, you

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know, by 20 episodes in, we would have run out of things to

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cover. And we're still going. So yeah,

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It's a great, great podcast. We'll put a link in the show notes so that people can get

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access to it. It's such a fun podcast. I learn something

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new each and every day when I

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listen to the episodes. I know I haven't listened to all 70. I'll be transparent. That's

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okay. I've listened to a number though. I've

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listened to a number of them and I'm always learning something new. It's true

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though, we do as podcasters when you first start out or any kind

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of communicators, you feel like you're going to run out of information. But

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I find and I don't – the way I work is

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a lot of the times I'll speak to somebody, I'll interview somebody and then during

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that interview or I'll listen back to the interview and I'm like, oh

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yeah, we could go down this route or we could start talking about

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this because they mentioned it. You know, something that we should look for, either

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talk to that person again or talk to somebody else, one of their colleagues or so

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forth. Or they'll give me like

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a referral to say, hey, you should speak to so and so and you should speak to

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this person because they can talk on this. I find that's

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really helpful when you have like especially when you do an interview

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based show. to be able to do that. I think even solo,

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I've been able to, I mean, I'm at almost 1,700 episodes

241
00:15:19,964 --> 00:15:23,366
now on this podcast, so there's always something to talk about.

242
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And if you can't find something, I always say, no, no, there's always

243
00:15:26,768 --> 00:15:30,029
something, especially in ocean science, even in shark

244
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:33,151
science, there's always something to talk about or someone to

245
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talk to. I think that the profession of

246
00:15:37,153 --> 00:15:40,675
shark science and shark conservation has really you

247
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know, exploded over the last 10 years, where a lot

248
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more people are doing some amazing things. And I think also the power of

249
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doing this remote recordings, like with software like Riverside, you're

250
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able to speak to a lot more people. Zoom and stuff, you're able

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to speak to a lot more people around the world. And I think that really opens

252
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up the amount of content. Do you

253
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find a lot of similarities in that in terms of finding

254
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It's just such an immense joy and a privilege to be able to speak

255
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to somebody who is not only the expert in the subject but

256
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is so incredibly passionate about it as well and once

257
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you get someone going on their

258
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topic that they're excited about and they're passionate about that really

259
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just comes through in the recording. And

260
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it's just one of the greatest privileges. And I think especially, you

261
00:16:40,005 --> 00:16:43,347
know, the reason as well behind doing a podcast like this, and

262
00:16:43,367 --> 00:16:46,910
I think as well behind, you know, like Beyond Jaws,

263
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and there's a ton of other, like, amazing shark-focused podcasts

264
00:16:50,993 --> 00:16:54,315
out there. Partly the reason why we do this is to change

265
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people's perceptions of sharks, right, and to counteract that. narrative

266
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that's been around for a long time, you know, that one of fear or, you know,

267
00:17:02,234 --> 00:17:06,258
sometimes even indifference. And I think the

268
00:17:06,358 --> 00:17:09,601
power of having people who are

269
00:17:09,782 --> 00:17:15,171
so passionate about sharks and so passionate about their conservation, get

270
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that across to the public and how amazing these animals are

271
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and how much there is still to learn about them. I think I

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think that's an incredibly powerful tool. And

273
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so yeah, and I never run out of

274
00:17:28,886 --> 00:17:32,210
things to talk about. In fact, that's something that that's a that's

275
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a I'm sure I mean, you've been in this business much longer than me. But

276
00:17:37,695 --> 00:17:41,256
something that I had to learn right in the beginning was how to really sort

277
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of dial back my questions. One of the biggest fears that I

278
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had was that I wouldn't ask

279
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intelligent questions or the guests

280
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wouldn't feel like I'd researched them enough. And so I would

281
00:17:54,980 --> 00:17:58,241
come with this like huge list of questions to ask them.

282
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And I really had to learn to edit that down because people will

283
00:18:01,742 --> 00:18:04,983
go off on these little tangents. And sometimes, like you said, that's the best

284
00:18:05,023 --> 00:18:08,186
bit, that's the most interesting part. So you want to leave space for that,

285
00:18:08,226 --> 00:18:12,294
right? And I learned that lesson the hard way, quite

286
00:18:14,719 --> 00:18:17,902
in the podcast so um so yeah that's never

287
00:18:17,942 --> 00:18:21,204
been a worry of mine that we're going to run out of things to talk about that's for

288
00:18:21,264 --> 00:18:24,807
sure for sure when i first started

289
00:18:24,827 --> 00:18:28,130
i would write out five or six maybe seven

290
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:31,513
questions and i'd always think was that too little like

291
00:18:31,573 --> 00:18:34,796
maybe i should put more so i'd have like 10 to 15 questions and

292
00:18:34,816 --> 00:18:38,138
then i realized really five to six did what i needed to

293
00:18:38,178 --> 00:18:41,441
do to get the person talking, and then you're

294
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right, it would go on these tangents, and then you would start asking questions about

295
00:18:44,883 --> 00:18:48,205
the tangents. Then next thing you know, you look up and you're like, this has been an hour episode, and

296
00:18:48,225 --> 00:18:52,008
I can go on for a lot longer. And so, you know, it's really

297
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interesting. Once you get people who are

298
00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:58,713
in this field talking, you get to hear their stories, you get to do

299
00:18:58,753 --> 00:19:02,836
that. And I think it's, podcasting has done such a great service to

300
00:19:02,916 --> 00:19:06,297
scientists in that it, It allows the

301
00:19:06,377 --> 00:19:09,799
listener, the audience member, to get to know who

302
00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:13,400
that person is, what they're passionate about, how they speak. Because usually

303
00:19:13,420 --> 00:19:16,541
you just see it in a paper, like on a journal article, or

304
00:19:16,561 --> 00:19:21,043
you just see it in some sort of scientific

305
00:19:21,083 --> 00:19:24,244
American publication, or BBC, or things like that. And it's

306
00:19:24,264 --> 00:19:27,625
just usually a quote. So you don't really hear them. You don't hear their tone. You don't hear the passion

307
00:19:27,685 --> 00:19:30,919
in their voice. I love the ability for

308
00:19:30,959 --> 00:19:34,280
podcasting to bring that out. Now, the other good thing

309
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,342
about podcasting is that you can take your podcasting equipment

310
00:19:38,482 --> 00:19:41,823
and you can bring it to a conference. And I think

311
00:19:41,943 --> 00:19:46,365
you did that, if I'm not mistaken. I've

312
00:19:46,405 --> 00:19:50,127
done that before and I think you did that with

313
00:19:50,327 --> 00:19:53,608
the idea of going to, you know, you went to

314
00:19:53,848 --> 00:19:57,030
two conferences. Do you want to just let us know which conferences you went and then we'll

315
00:19:58,860 --> 00:20:02,161
Sure, so I went to, the

316
00:20:02,201 --> 00:20:05,983
first one was the International Marine Conservation Congress or

317
00:20:06,163 --> 00:20:10,044
IMCC, which is organized by the Society of Conservation Biology

318
00:20:10,304 --> 00:20:14,927
and this year that was in Cape Town in South Africa. And

319
00:20:14,967 --> 00:20:18,851
then straight after that I flew to Greece to

320
00:20:18,971 --> 00:20:22,855
take part in the meeting

321
00:20:22,995 --> 00:20:26,219
of the European Asthma Bank Association. So

322
00:20:26,239 --> 00:20:29,863
two very different conferences at other ends of the world,

323
00:20:32,267 --> 00:20:36,450
A lot of traveling.

324
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:41,333
It seemed like it was in a straight longitudinal

325
00:20:41,373 --> 00:20:44,676
line. A little bit off maybe, but it

326
00:20:44,696 --> 00:20:48,078
seemed like right from Scotland all the way down and then coming

327
00:20:48,138 --> 00:20:51,580
back. So that's not it's not like I think we talked about right before we record

328
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,863
you like the The time zone wasn't too much of an issue

329
00:20:54,903 --> 00:20:58,025
because the hours didn't change to too much which which is a

330
00:20:58,085 --> 00:21:01,688
benefit I think but it's still a long distance to travel

331
00:21:02,028 --> 00:21:05,631
How long is the flight from like, you know, Scotland to

332
00:21:08,993 --> 00:21:12,428
um so it's about It's

333
00:21:12,468 --> 00:21:16,011
about 12 hours, but then add

334
00:21:16,431 --> 00:21:19,613
three hours onto that for me because I live right up

335
00:21:19,694 --> 00:21:22,956
north in the Scottish Highlands, so I've got to get transport to get to

336
00:21:22,976 --> 00:21:26,218
the airport, first of all. So in total, in

337
00:21:26,258 --> 00:21:34,044
total about 15 to 16 hours to get down to Cape Town. But

338
00:21:34,124 --> 00:21:37,966
hey, I mean, it's, again,

339
00:21:37,986 --> 00:21:41,328
I have to recognize here like the privilege of actually being able

340
00:21:41,368 --> 00:21:44,530
to do that. A lot of these conferences are quite inaccessible for

341
00:21:44,550 --> 00:21:47,732
a lot of people. So to actually be able to go and

342
00:21:47,772 --> 00:21:50,954
attend these conferences is an absolute privilege and I can

343
00:21:50,974 --> 00:21:54,337
totally. Sit on a plane for, you know,

344
00:21:54,657 --> 00:21:58,760
11 hours to get there. It's no hardship. And watch,

345
00:21:58,780 --> 00:22:02,342
I think I watched the entire season of the House of the Dragon while

346
00:22:05,325 --> 00:22:08,567
There you go. Not a hardship. Kill two birds with one

347
00:22:08,587 --> 00:22:12,250
stone. Yeah, exactly. Usually we

348
00:22:12,290 --> 00:22:15,873
go to conferences, we'll start with IMCC because

349
00:22:15,893 --> 00:22:19,436
that was the first one you went to on this trip. When

350
00:22:19,456 --> 00:22:22,779
you go to conferences, you go for a purpose either to present or serve on

351
00:22:22,819 --> 00:22:26,463
a panel, to podcast. What were the purposes you

352
00:22:28,575 --> 00:22:32,138
So IMCC was more like multi-purpose for me. So like

353
00:22:32,178 --> 00:22:35,982
I said in the beginning, I wear two different hats and one of those is

354
00:22:36,223 --> 00:22:39,887
Marine Social Scientist and I currently lead

355
00:22:39,967 --> 00:22:43,290
on a project here in Scotland which is looking at the management and

356
00:22:43,310 --> 00:22:47,014
governance of Scotland's Marine Protected Area Network and

357
00:22:47,154 --> 00:22:50,958
IMCC being the kind of Congress

358
00:22:50,998 --> 00:22:54,160
of Marine Conservation that work is incredibly relevant. And

359
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,463
so on the one hand I was presenting but

360
00:22:57,583 --> 00:23:02,026
also the Save Our Seas Foundation has a big

361
00:23:02,046 --> 00:23:05,328
presence at these conferences. We usually sponsor them. So

362
00:23:05,388 --> 00:23:09,431
IMCC we were one of the sponsors for that event and

363
00:23:09,451 --> 00:23:12,874
a lot of the Save Our Seas Foundation team were

364
00:23:12,894 --> 00:23:16,156
going to be there. Just very quickly, we

365
00:23:16,216 --> 00:23:19,538
have kind of like, we have a core team, so

366
00:23:19,558 --> 00:23:22,740
our headquarters, which is based in Switzerland, but then we also have the

367
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:26,022
Shark Education Center in Cape Town, which has

368
00:23:26,062 --> 00:23:29,344
a whole team. And then the comms team, which I'm part

369
00:23:29,484 --> 00:23:32,586
of, is also based within that center. But

370
00:23:32,606 --> 00:23:36,008
then we also have a research center on Darros in the Seychelles, and

371
00:23:36,028 --> 00:23:39,530
we also have a research center in Florida. And it's very

372
00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:42,972
rare that all of us managed to

373
00:23:42,992 --> 00:23:46,413
get together and there was a lot of Save Our Seas people

374
00:23:46,434 --> 00:23:49,755
at IMCC so it was also a chance for

375
00:23:49,855 --> 00:23:53,136
us to connect and us to meet one another which was

376
00:23:53,176 --> 00:23:56,197
amazing. So like the week before that we got to do a

377
00:23:56,257 --> 00:23:59,538
team building day which was with

378
00:23:59,798 --> 00:24:03,760
a company based just outside of Simonstown

379
00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:08,323
in South Africa called Veldensee and they took us for this

380
00:24:09,184 --> 00:24:12,887
amazing like foraging, freediving experience. So

381
00:24:12,907 --> 00:24:17,410
you like go foraging while you're freediving and then you cook up the food. And

382
00:24:17,470 --> 00:24:20,913
it was phenomenal and it's just so, so great

383
00:24:20,993 --> 00:24:24,395
to have the whole team together. So I think there was like over 30 of

384
00:24:24,495 --> 00:24:27,618
us at IMCC. So it was like great to be

385
00:24:27,638 --> 00:24:31,673
able to connect. And of course, alongside

386
00:24:31,693 --> 00:24:35,274
of all of that, you know, getting to meet

387
00:24:35,334 --> 00:24:38,794
the people that we funded, like I said earlier, and

388
00:24:39,374 --> 00:24:42,915
connect with them and also, you know, help

389
00:24:42,935 --> 00:24:46,536
people to know what Save Our Seas Foundation are about. So if they're potentially looking

390
00:24:46,556 --> 00:24:49,716
for funding, you know, learn more about us as well. So it was

391
00:24:49,776 --> 00:24:54,457
very much a multi-purpose trip. It was very, very

392
00:24:54,517 --> 00:24:57,938
busy, but incredibly fun and

393
00:25:00,458 --> 00:25:05,063
Very nice. Had you, had you been to a, uh, an IMCC meeting

394
00:25:06,505 --> 00:25:10,189
I do not know, but I've presented at ICCB before,

395
00:25:10,269 --> 00:25:13,774
sorry for the listeners. I know I'm bringing in a lot of like acronyms here.

396
00:25:16,847 --> 00:25:20,089
Yes. Yes. It's similar. I've never been

397
00:25:20,129 --> 00:25:23,350
to the ICCB. The ICCB tends to

398
00:25:23,370 --> 00:25:26,552
be bigger. It tends to be more, it's not just ocean. It's

399
00:25:26,572 --> 00:25:29,894
not just marine. It's every realm. So there's freshwater, there's

400
00:25:29,954 --> 00:25:33,676
land, and then there's marine as well. So it's a bigger conference

401
00:25:35,096 --> 00:25:38,198
where marine is sort of the marine section of

402
00:25:38,218 --> 00:25:41,660
the Society of Conservation Biology. So it tends to be a little bit smaller,

403
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,121
a little under 1,000, I think. I don't know how many were at MCI. Unfortunately,

404
00:25:46,782 --> 00:25:50,385
I know. Yeah, it's a shame you couldn't make it. So

405
00:25:50,405 --> 00:25:54,087
I think there was about 800 delegates at this one. So

406
00:25:54,147 --> 00:25:58,391
it's a big, big conference. Yeah. So

407
00:25:58,411 --> 00:26:03,250
for listeners, these kind of conferences tend to be because

408
00:26:03,270 --> 00:26:06,612
they're more general. So this is like kind of broad marine

409
00:26:06,632 --> 00:26:10,594
conservation. So that can include everything from understanding particular

410
00:26:10,654 --> 00:26:13,916
species to marine protected areas to working with

411
00:26:13,956 --> 00:26:17,238
fisheries. And so you get delegates from all over

412
00:26:17,258 --> 00:26:20,880
the world and there was, we call them parallel sessions.

413
00:26:20,940 --> 00:26:24,502
It's basically like you have different rooms dedicated to

414
00:26:24,522 --> 00:26:28,904
a particular subject and people give, you

415
00:26:28,924 --> 00:26:32,424
have multiple people giving talks in that session. And

416
00:26:32,604 --> 00:26:36,146
usually at some conferences, there's only one or two or maybe three

417
00:26:36,186 --> 00:26:39,528
of those going on. At IMCC, there was something like six or seven

418
00:26:39,748 --> 00:26:43,029
of those parallel sessions all going on at the same time. So

419
00:26:43,069 --> 00:26:46,271
it's huge. Yeah, it is intense. And there's a

420
00:26:46,291 --> 00:26:49,432
lot of people like running in between rooms because they want

421
00:26:49,452 --> 00:26:53,894
to go to one in one session and one in another session. And so

422
00:26:54,014 --> 00:26:58,597
so yeah, it's a it's a big conference, a big conference. Yeah,

423
00:26:58,677 --> 00:27:02,000
so. And pretty nerve-wracking to present that, I must say.

424
00:27:08,914 --> 00:27:12,298
Just because there's so many people and there's a lot of people there

425
00:27:12,398 --> 00:27:15,762
who are very well established in their field. So for me, there

426
00:27:15,782 --> 00:27:19,346
was a lot of people there who I really admire, I've

427
00:27:19,426 --> 00:27:22,650
cited a lot of their work. And there's

428
00:27:22,690 --> 00:27:26,735
not just academics there either, there's members from government agencies,

429
00:27:26,755 --> 00:27:30,338
there's members from NGOs. conservation

430
00:27:30,378 --> 00:27:33,600
organizations, you know, it really is an

431
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,881
amazing chance to be able to like network and connect with lots of different

432
00:27:36,901 --> 00:27:41,484
people from all different backgrounds from all over the world. And the

433
00:27:41,524 --> 00:27:45,165
room that they put me in, there was one big hole, and

434
00:27:45,205 --> 00:27:52,528
I blame David Shiffman entirely for this, but there was one. There

435
00:27:52,588 --> 00:27:55,709
was one enormous hall where they had all

436
00:27:55,729 --> 00:27:58,830
the plenary sessions. So that's the people that speak at the beginning of the

437
00:27:58,850 --> 00:28:01,991
day and kind of really set the scene for the

438
00:28:02,031 --> 00:28:05,332
conference. And it was just this massive hall with

439
00:28:05,373 --> 00:28:08,994
a stage at the front. And a lot of the other parallel sessions

440
00:28:09,074 --> 00:28:12,335
are in much smaller rooms, you know, with a little projector. I was

441
00:28:12,415 --> 00:28:15,755
on that big stage, which was so

442
00:28:15,815 --> 00:28:21,137
intimidating. So, so intimidating. But

443
00:28:21,177 --> 00:28:24,398
yeah, it was intimidating, but it was exciting at the same

444
00:28:24,458 --> 00:28:27,959
time. And it was also the first time I've presented on this research.

445
00:28:28,779 --> 00:28:32,080
So that added a little scary element to

446
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:35,802
it as well because you're thinking, oh, will the results come across okay

447
00:28:36,202 --> 00:28:39,723
or how is this going to go? So yeah,

448
00:28:39,903 --> 00:28:43,485
it's pretty nerve-wracking. I'm a first-timers PI

449
00:28:50,895 --> 00:28:56,098
I think it went well. I think it went well. I got some good feedback. It's

450
00:28:56,138 --> 00:28:59,500
always hard to know because the time goes so quickly

451
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,022
when you're in the moment and you spend, I was so stressed

452
00:29:03,062 --> 00:29:06,844
beforehand. I normally don't get stressed for presentations

453
00:29:07,764 --> 00:29:11,206
because science communication has always been my bag so

454
00:29:11,547 --> 00:29:15,109
I know that I can present well. But

455
00:29:15,149 --> 00:29:18,312
I was so nervous for a lot of the reasons that I've just

456
00:29:18,352 --> 00:29:22,275
specified. So I spent a lot of the week panicking,

457
00:29:22,575 --> 00:29:25,918
rehearsing, changing my slides again and again and again.

458
00:29:25,938 --> 00:29:29,201
And then when it actually comes to it, the time just goes

459
00:29:29,722 --> 00:29:32,865
so quickly. And then

460
00:29:32,885 --> 00:29:36,510
it's done and you're finished and you're like, oh, it was all that panic

461
00:29:36,530 --> 00:29:39,674
info. But yeah, it went well and we

462
00:29:39,694 --> 00:29:42,998
had a good discussion afterwards. So we actually did

463
00:29:43,038 --> 00:29:46,883
it as a bit of more of a panel session at the end. So all the other

464
00:29:46,903 --> 00:29:50,387
speakers in the session kind of got up and talked about it. And

465
00:29:50,427 --> 00:29:53,609
it was in a session called Beyond 30 by 30. So it

466
00:29:53,649 --> 00:29:58,551
kind of looked at the concept of protecting 30% of

467
00:30:00,132 --> 00:30:03,434
land and sea by 2030, but asked, you

468
00:30:03,474 --> 00:30:06,696
know, is that enough? Or does there need to be more? You know, what

469
00:30:06,736 --> 00:30:10,117
comes after this? And so it was

470
00:30:10,157 --> 00:30:13,679
kind of trying to frame the talk with that in mind as well. And we got some really,

471
00:30:13,719 --> 00:30:18,124
really interesting questions from the people who were listening. Yeah,

472
00:30:18,144 --> 00:30:22,272
it was it was it was very valuable, but it was on the last day So

473
00:30:25,834 --> 00:30:30,277
You got to do everything else and then you got to present. Hopefully you weren't too nervous throughout

474
00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:36,721
Or it's like a bit of a cloud just hanging on

475
00:30:36,741 --> 00:30:41,444
the horizon because you can't quite relax. And

476
00:30:41,604 --> 00:30:45,026
also, like you said, I was trying to plan podcasts and

477
00:30:46,407 --> 00:30:51,530
network. And there's all these social events in the evening too. You

478
00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:54,732
know, anyone listening who is about to go to one of these conferences or has

479
00:30:54,792 --> 00:30:58,755
been and is like, oh my god, they're so exhausting. Everyone

480
00:30:58,795 --> 00:31:02,998
finds them exhausting. It is super tiring and

481
00:31:09,362 --> 00:31:13,025
The big thing, especially for IMCC, I've been to a lot of different conferences. IMCC

482
00:31:13,305 --> 00:31:17,268
is my favorite that I've been to at this point. I've been

483
00:31:17,288 --> 00:31:21,250
to a number of them, three of them at this point. And

484
00:31:21,290 --> 00:31:24,432
I find that they are my favorite just because of

485
00:31:24,892 --> 00:31:28,114
the support that you get for people who present, the feedback that

486
00:31:28,154 --> 00:31:31,716
you get, the fact that they have like panel sessions at the end of each session

487
00:31:32,277 --> 00:31:35,959
or at the end of each group of sessions, a block of sessions to be able to discuss more.

488
00:31:36,539 --> 00:31:39,921
There's a lot more that comes out of it than just, you know, if you're an

489
00:31:39,941 --> 00:31:43,383
audience member, just watching people, you know, present

490
00:31:43,423 --> 00:31:46,559
their stuff, but you're able to give feedback, you're able to speak to

491
00:31:46,579 --> 00:31:50,802
them after people are accessible, even though there's 800 some odd there,

492
00:31:50,942 --> 00:31:54,524
it's nice that you get access. Plus the events at night,

493
00:31:55,144 --> 00:32:01,768
in the evening, during the day, it's a very social conference.

494
00:32:02,008 --> 00:32:05,550
There's a bit of a partying aspect to it, I have to admit. But

495
00:32:05,630 --> 00:32:09,512
it's it's it's a fun and friendly atmosphere where

496
00:32:10,112 --> 00:32:13,674
everybody's approachable even for for

497
00:32:13,934 --> 00:32:17,015
introverts out there, you know, there's there's ways to to be

498
00:32:17,055 --> 00:32:20,337
able to Inject yourself into conversations and

499
00:32:20,377 --> 00:32:23,818
be able to be a part of come. I'm an extrovert. So it's very difficult to speak on introverts

500
00:32:23,858 --> 00:32:27,020
behalf but it's it's it's I've

501
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,341
seen people who say yeah, it actually like I've heard people say they really like

502
00:32:30,401 --> 00:32:33,622
it because How how approachable and supportive everybody is so?

503
00:32:35,163 --> 00:32:39,049
Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I was joking about David before. But,

504
00:32:39,209 --> 00:32:42,734
you know, David was on the organizing committee and the entire

505
00:32:42,774 --> 00:32:45,999
committee did such a fantastic job. You know, if you imagine like

506
00:32:46,099 --> 00:32:50,566
how many people you have to organize, how many topics you have to organize. It

507
00:32:50,786 --> 00:32:54,070
was done seamlessly. I can't fault

508
00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:57,514
them. And something that made me so happy, as a marine social

509
00:32:57,534 --> 00:33:01,138
scientist, normally when you go to these broad conferences,

510
00:33:01,198 --> 00:33:04,342
or it has been in the past, I think it's getting better now, but

511
00:33:04,382 --> 00:33:07,725
all the human dimensions stuff is usually just kind

512
00:33:07,766 --> 00:33:12,091
of sectioned off in its own little box. Whereas IMCC,

513
00:33:12,471 --> 00:33:16,275
it was so much, it was integrated so well into

514
00:33:16,435 --> 00:33:19,798
everything else. And there were so many really

515
00:33:19,878 --> 00:33:23,282
valuable and very interesting discussions, especially around equity

516
00:33:23,342 --> 00:33:28,086
and social justice in marine conservation. And being

517
00:33:28,126 --> 00:33:31,850
in South Africa, especially there was a lot of discussions around

518
00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:36,354
things like colonialism and how things

519
00:33:36,374 --> 00:33:39,996
like apartheid are still having an impact now

520
00:33:40,276 --> 00:33:45,839
on who is involved in conservation, who is involved in the decision-making. And

521
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:49,621
one of the keynote speakers, Angelo Villagomez, said

522
00:33:49,661 --> 00:33:53,063
something, it sounds very simple, but

523
00:33:53,083 --> 00:33:57,285
I think it's something we can all remember, is that it's

524
00:33:57,305 --> 00:34:00,567
not just the why of marine conservation, so it's not just the why of

525
00:34:01,007 --> 00:34:04,470
how we're doing it, but it's also The how

526
00:34:04,830 --> 00:34:08,396
so the pros, you know process really matters. So how are we involving people

527
00:34:08,476 --> 00:34:11,902
who is involved? And so there was a lot of really really

528
00:34:11,942 --> 00:34:15,127
valuable discussions around that and at the

529
00:34:15,147 --> 00:34:18,317
conference and that's probably One

530
00:34:18,337 --> 00:34:21,779
of the main take home messages for me of

531
00:34:21,799 --> 00:34:25,221
that conference is just how important those elements are

532
00:34:26,702 --> 00:34:30,565
to the success and the longevity of any marine conservation measure.

533
00:34:30,585 --> 00:34:34,207
Whether you're talking about marine protected area or whether you're talking about fisheries management measure,

534
00:34:40,090 --> 00:34:43,252
Absolutely. Absolutely. And Angelo is a friend of the podcast. He's been on a

535
00:34:43,292 --> 00:34:46,660
number of times. So happy to hear that you're able

536
00:34:46,700 --> 00:34:49,903
to get a lot out of that keynote. I know he worked on it pretty

537
00:34:49,943 --> 00:34:53,085
hard. So that's fantastic to

538
00:34:53,105 --> 00:34:56,508
hear. He's an amazing individual. Yeah, yeah,

539
00:34:56,568 --> 00:35:00,152
for sure. So you did that conference and

540
00:35:00,192 --> 00:35:04,475
then you decide, hey, you know what? It's not enough that I do one conference. On

541
00:35:04,515 --> 00:35:07,816
the way home, I'm going to just do a little stopover into a

542
00:35:08,157 --> 00:35:11,298
little known place called Greece, I assume it was

543
00:35:11,338 --> 00:35:15,019
in Athens, and I'm just going to hang out with some others, some more, maybe

544
00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:18,280
do a presentation or two, and you decide

545
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,722
that. So what in the world made you decide to

546
00:35:21,762 --> 00:35:25,503
do one, not only another conference in that year, which

547
00:35:29,787 --> 00:35:33,208
Well, I think you've only to take that up with the conference organizers and

548
00:35:33,248 --> 00:35:41,031
why they all seem to have their events all at once. So

549
00:35:41,171 --> 00:35:46,152
because I work for the Save Our Seas Foundation, it's

550
00:35:46,353 --> 00:35:49,494
often part of our job that we go to events like this. So

551
00:35:49,534 --> 00:35:53,455
especially things like EA, the European Alasdair Frank Association Conference.

552
00:35:54,876 --> 00:35:58,578
A, partly because, like I said earlier, we have

553
00:35:58,618 --> 00:36:01,761
a lot of project leaders who participate in these events and it's always great to

554
00:36:01,801 --> 00:36:04,943
go and support them. But B, you

555
00:36:04,963 --> 00:36:08,325
know, we often sponsor these events as well, so we host social

556
00:36:08,345 --> 00:36:12,128
events in the evening so that people can meet one another and network.

557
00:36:12,969 --> 00:36:16,151
And it's also a great way for more people to find out about the foundation and the kind

558
00:36:16,191 --> 00:36:20,374
of funding that we offer. And the reason that I usually

559
00:36:20,414 --> 00:36:23,858
go to these events, aside from, IMCC was a bit different

560
00:36:23,878 --> 00:36:28,201
because it was a combination of my own research and Save Our Seas. EEA

561
00:36:28,242 --> 00:36:31,565
was mainly for the Save Our Seas Foundation. So for me,

562
00:36:32,145 --> 00:36:35,748
as science communicator, it's good to keep tabs

563
00:36:35,808 --> 00:36:39,011
on who's doing what and also to try and

564
00:36:39,532 --> 00:36:43,155
think about, you know, what would be a good podcast episode or can I interview

565
00:36:43,195 --> 00:36:47,099
anyone here while I'm here and I have everyone in the same room or

566
00:36:47,139 --> 00:36:50,882
just to sort of introduce myself. I think it makes people feel a lot more comfortable if

567
00:36:50,902 --> 00:36:54,905
they've met me beforehand and we've had a chat beforehand. And

568
00:36:55,065 --> 00:36:58,906
so EEA was kind of more focused on that, but EEA

569
00:36:58,946 --> 00:37:02,888
is a very different conference to IMCC. So IMCC,

570
00:37:03,048 --> 00:37:06,629
broad marine conservation, you know, loads of delegates, lots

571
00:37:06,669 --> 00:37:10,470
of parallel sessions. EEA is much smaller and

572
00:37:10,510 --> 00:37:14,391
it's more, it's wholly focused around elasmobranchs

573
00:37:15,331 --> 00:37:19,114
and specifically elasmobranchs in Europe. And so you're

574
00:37:19,134 --> 00:37:22,699
in one room for the entire day. There's talks running from

575
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,445
9am until 7.30pm, I believe

576
00:37:26,485 --> 00:37:33,914
it was, with gaps in between for networking. Again,

577
00:37:34,234 --> 00:37:38,055
the conference organizers IC did, or

578
00:37:38,275 --> 00:37:41,776
IC, I should say, so it's I and then the word sea

579
00:37:42,016 --> 00:37:45,637
as in like ocean. They did an incredible

580
00:37:45,657 --> 00:37:48,838
job of organizing everybody and making sure

581
00:37:48,878 --> 00:37:52,219
everything ran smoothly and that there was not only space for as

582
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,360
many talks, but space for people to chat and to network in

583
00:37:55,380 --> 00:37:58,583
between. And the nice thing about EEA is

584
00:37:58,623 --> 00:38:01,988
that because you're in the same room for every single talk, you

585
00:38:02,028 --> 00:38:05,333
kind of are, I don't

586
00:38:05,353 --> 00:38:08,678
want to say forced because it's not like you're held there against your will,

587
00:38:08,778 --> 00:38:13,022
but you do kind of see I

588
00:38:13,082 --> 00:38:17,125
think a broader diversity of subjects

589
00:38:17,165 --> 00:38:20,568
than you would do ordinarily, because when you're at somewhere like IMCC and

590
00:38:20,588 --> 00:38:24,151
you're running in between lots of different parallel sessions, you're

591
00:38:24,171 --> 00:38:27,874
going specifically to the ones that cater to you, whereas

592
00:38:28,134 --> 00:38:31,196
EEA for me was so interesting because I was not only listening to

593
00:38:31,256 --> 00:38:34,378
talks about my subject area, which is like working with

594
00:38:34,418 --> 00:38:37,640
fishers and social dimensions, but

595
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:40,861
also learning about tagging and different techniques to

596
00:38:40,881 --> 00:38:44,183
tag sharks and also, you know, new discoveries in their biology and

597
00:38:44,243 --> 00:38:47,398
ecology. Um, so yeah, it was, it

598
00:38:47,438 --> 00:38:50,719
was, it was really interesting and, and very full on as

599
00:38:50,759 --> 00:38:53,960
well. Um, and then also, uh, at

600
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,301
EEA too, um, I was very kindly asked to

601
00:38:57,341 --> 00:39:00,522
be part of a panel session on the last day. So

602
00:39:00,542 --> 00:39:03,983
rather than have one person speaking as a plenary, they

603
00:39:04,043 --> 00:39:07,445
had, um, plenary panels, which is

604
00:39:07,525 --> 00:39:11,567
like, a panel session that starts

605
00:39:11,627 --> 00:39:15,089
the day and sort of sets the tone for the rest of the day. And

606
00:39:15,210 --> 00:39:18,832
there was a panel, I was part of a panel on science communication, so

607
00:39:18,872 --> 00:39:22,154
it's called Stimulating Public Engagement. And so,

608
00:39:25,256 --> 00:39:28,899
I love it when conferences incorporate science communication.

609
00:39:29,379 --> 00:39:32,861
It's such an important tool that we need to, I mean, we go to conferences

610
00:39:32,901 --> 00:39:36,383
and we, you know, share

611
00:39:36,423 --> 00:39:41,026
our research, share sort of conservation initiatives, discuss

612
00:39:41,066 --> 00:39:45,615
important avenues, but then we never really discuss you

613
00:39:45,635 --> 00:39:49,198
know, the importance of speaking about

614
00:39:49,318 --> 00:39:52,661
the research and speaking about these projects to a

615
00:39:52,721 --> 00:39:56,604
community, whether it be in person, whether it be digitally, it's

616
00:39:56,684 --> 00:40:00,187
such an important role. And I'm so glad to see and

617
00:40:00,287 --> 00:40:03,729
hear of different conferences being able to attach

618
00:40:03,789 --> 00:40:07,532
that as a session or panel, the

619
00:40:07,572 --> 00:40:11,155
plenary panel, you know, however they do, I

620
00:40:11,175 --> 00:40:14,378
think it's really important. Actually, IMCC used to put on

621
00:40:15,085 --> 00:40:18,809
oceans online, which is right after the IMCC conference,

622
00:40:18,909 --> 00:40:22,152
which is one day all about science communication. And

623
00:40:22,172 --> 00:40:25,475
it was it was from an oceans online conference that used to happen from

624
00:40:25,515 --> 00:40:28,998
science online and In the US, unfortunately, that's not around anymore for

625
00:40:29,018 --> 00:40:32,799
a number of different reasons. But Oceans Online was probably

626
00:40:32,839 --> 00:40:36,040
one of my favorite science communication conferences to go to. And

627
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,280
then they added Oceans Online to the end of IMCC. I don't think they do it

628
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,361
anymore, but they do incorporate, I think, science communication throughout

629
00:40:45,642 --> 00:40:48,825
Yeah, and I think David Schiffman, he ran a

630
00:40:48,866 --> 00:40:52,810
workshop on science communication at both conferences,

631
00:40:52,890 --> 00:40:56,814
actually, which was great. But yeah, definitely

632
00:40:57,354 --> 00:41:00,858
going back to EEA. I mean, it's when

633
00:41:00,878 --> 00:41:04,541
we talk about education and communication that forms part

634
00:41:04,702 --> 00:41:08,584
of a lot of projects focused around sharks now, like,

635
00:41:08,624 --> 00:41:13,026
you know, educating the local community, you know, raising awareness, public

636
00:41:13,046 --> 00:41:16,728
engagement of sharks. It's such a huge theme across

637
00:41:16,848 --> 00:41:20,229
a lot of these projects. So, yeah, it was really cool to

638
00:41:20,269 --> 00:41:23,751
be able to be part of a panel specifically about that.

639
00:41:24,111 --> 00:41:28,374
And my fellow panelists, we all came from quite diverse areas

640
00:41:28,414 --> 00:41:32,197
of science communication. So for me, you know, scientific writing

641
00:41:32,257 --> 00:41:35,981
and podcasting, but there was also Felipe who does

642
00:41:36,021 --> 00:41:39,864
a lot of videography. You know, there was Eleonora who

643
00:41:39,884 --> 00:41:43,207
is, you know, also she does, she

644
00:41:43,367 --> 00:41:46,690
is a science journalist. And then, you know, Ian

645
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:50,994
Campbell and Michael Scholl as well, who are kind of more part of the sort of NGO, that

646
00:41:51,034 --> 00:41:54,616
kind of world. So yeah, it was really cool and

647
00:41:54,696 --> 00:41:59,318
chaired by the amazing Eva Myers, who heads up

648
00:41:59,358 --> 00:42:02,800
the Angel Shock project, so she knows a lot about public

649
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,702
engagement and things like that and community involvement. So yeah,

650
00:42:10,076 --> 00:42:13,657
Yeah, it's good to get it from all, I think when we talk about science communication,

651
00:42:13,677 --> 00:42:16,938
for me, I always go to like digital science communication, because that's

652
00:42:16,958 --> 00:42:20,078
what I do. But there's so many other aspects to it. And I

653
00:42:20,498 --> 00:42:23,679
think it's great to be able to present that in front of everybody to kind of

654
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,100
inspire people to be like, Oh, well, I can do writing or, yeah, no,

655
00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:30,501
I do have like, you know, the angel shark network, I have an I can create

656
00:42:30,521 --> 00:42:33,982
a network of different organizations and stuff. I think project seagrass does

657
00:42:34,002 --> 00:42:37,182
the same thing for seagrass up in

658
00:42:37,442 --> 00:42:40,563
the UK. And and so it's, it's It's

659
00:42:40,603 --> 00:42:44,465
good to get the background and the challenges

660
00:42:44,505 --> 00:42:47,806
and solutions that they all have to overcome and be able to

661
00:42:47,886 --> 00:42:50,947
implement when they do these different types of

662
00:42:50,987 --> 00:42:55,008
science communication. So that's awesome. Now, I

663
00:42:55,048 --> 00:42:58,689
know we're running a little short on time here, but two

664
00:42:58,729 --> 00:43:01,830
conferences done within a span of, I believe it

665
00:43:01,850 --> 00:43:05,452
was two weeks, maybe even two and a half weeks because you had your team building beforehand.

666
00:43:11,002 --> 00:43:14,745
I felt, I mean, aside from obviously tired,

667
00:43:14,765 --> 00:43:20,649
because it is pretty full on, I felt

668
00:43:20,729 --> 00:43:23,811
incredibly, you know, uplifted. One

669
00:43:23,831 --> 00:43:27,133
of the reasons that I like going to these conferences is because I feel like it lights that

670
00:43:27,193 --> 00:43:30,555
spark back in you. You know, as a scientist, you're

671
00:43:30,575 --> 00:43:33,997
often working by yourself, you know, a lot of people listening to this will be familiar

672
00:43:34,017 --> 00:43:38,020
with working from home. And it can feel quite lonely.

673
00:43:38,380 --> 00:43:43,043
And then when you go to these conferences and you see just how many people are

674
00:43:43,544 --> 00:43:48,187
working to protect the oceans, to understand

675
00:43:48,247 --> 00:43:51,629
and conserve sharks, it really reignites that

676
00:43:51,689 --> 00:43:54,992
spark and it spurs you on to carry

677
00:43:55,072 --> 00:43:58,254
on in whatever you're doing. And also you get to connect with lots

678
00:43:58,294 --> 00:44:01,697
of new people, so new collaborations, new ideas. So,

679
00:44:01,737 --> 00:44:05,901
I felt very uplifted and I think it's very easy, I

680
00:44:05,921 --> 00:44:09,125
think you probably talk about this a lot on this podcast, is to

681
00:44:09,965 --> 00:44:13,149
fall into that doom and gloom trap, right? So, you know, we hear a lot

682
00:44:13,189 --> 00:44:17,233
of bad news related to the oceans. And

683
00:44:17,554 --> 00:44:21,898
these conferences, do you have an element of that? Because you are hearing similar

684
00:44:21,938 --> 00:44:25,010
stories from all over the world. But at

685
00:44:25,050 --> 00:44:28,292
the same time, you're also hearing similar stories of,

686
00:44:28,992 --> 00:44:32,514
well, we're seeing fishermen be more engaged,

687
00:44:32,794 --> 00:44:36,415
or we're actually seeing this conservation measure working, or

688
00:44:36,776 --> 00:44:40,217
we've trialled this project here and now it's so successful,

689
00:44:40,277 --> 00:44:43,799
we have more sharks than we know what to do with. You hear a lot

690
00:44:43,819 --> 00:44:48,521
of these positive success stories and you see the amount of effort and

691
00:44:48,801 --> 00:44:51,963
work that's going into marine conservation. So yeah, I would

692
00:44:52,043 --> 00:44:55,725
say I'd felt very inspired and very uplifted

693
00:44:59,969 --> 00:45:04,072
That's awesome. I'll be honest, I'm joking about

694
00:45:04,132 --> 00:45:07,414
the fact that you did two conferences in a row a lot, but it takes

695
00:45:07,474 --> 00:45:11,277
a lot to be able to do that and be present at

696
00:45:11,397 --> 00:45:15,805
each and every one of them. you know, you're up late, you're

697
00:45:16,225 --> 00:45:19,406
up early the next day, you know, trying to get all these sessions in,

698
00:45:19,486 --> 00:45:22,948
trying to collaborate, you're talking, and especially going from

699
00:45:22,968 --> 00:45:26,189
an area of working from home or even working in

700
00:45:26,209 --> 00:45:29,531
a small group to being around, surrounded by 800 people

701
00:45:29,571 --> 00:45:35,217
and maybe 300 people at the ESA, it's It's

702
00:45:35,257 --> 00:45:38,500
a lot, it's a lot to take. So what

703
00:45:38,580 --> 00:45:41,823
helped you get through those conferences? A lot of coffee?

704
00:45:43,624 --> 00:45:47,147
I don't drink coffee, so like, yeah. Oh

705
00:45:49,649 --> 00:45:53,172
I know. Did you do some exercise or did you get out to do like outside

706
00:45:53,192 --> 00:45:57,115
and like when you're in Cape Town to go out and kind of enjoy nature

707
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,863
I did in the beginning, so me and our

708
00:46:04,903 --> 00:46:08,345
director of the education center, Clover, is very into running. So me and her

709
00:46:08,665 --> 00:46:12,067
would go for runs early in the morning. But I mean, these sessions are starting

710
00:46:12,107 --> 00:46:15,389
at like 8am. So you know, there's really not much time.

711
00:46:15,409 --> 00:46:18,631
I think as well, like, I think I just run on adrenaline at these

712
00:46:18,651 --> 00:46:22,514
things. And like, You

713
00:46:22,554 --> 00:46:25,637
know, it is hard, and I think I've reached a point in

714
00:46:25,657 --> 00:46:28,819
my career now where I'm more used to that. I'm like,

715
00:46:28,860 --> 00:46:32,203
I know I've got two very intense weeks, and then after

716
00:46:32,243 --> 00:46:35,506
then, you know, I can relax a little bit. And you do get inspired by,

717
00:46:35,526 --> 00:46:38,708
we were joking about it before we started recording, but

718
00:46:38,748 --> 00:46:42,772
people like Reema Jebado, who's just this incredible superwoman

719
00:46:42,972 --> 00:46:46,255
who goes from conference to conference to meeting to meeting, and she's just

720
00:46:46,475 --> 00:46:49,879
able to be so present. And I think as well, I know how

721
00:46:49,939 --> 00:46:53,502
much energy it takes to, for

722
00:46:53,542 --> 00:46:57,686
someone to present. Like it's such a, you

723
00:46:57,706 --> 00:47:01,909
put so much effort into it. And so you want to really, like

724
00:47:01,949 --> 00:47:05,393
if they look up from the podium and they see you in the audience, they

725
00:47:05,433 --> 00:47:09,817
want to see you looking at them and engaging. They don't want to see you like kind of down on your phone. So

726
00:47:09,837 --> 00:47:14,222
I try and keep that in mind when you're in the last session of the day. And

727
00:47:14,262 --> 00:47:18,326
yeah, you just meet these amazing people from

728
00:47:18,406 --> 00:47:21,790
all different walks of life, all over the world. And it's such an exciting thing.

729
00:47:21,890 --> 00:47:27,376
But that's not to say that I don't find it hard. And

730
00:47:27,456 --> 00:47:30,559
one thing that I try to do as well is, if you've got new

731
00:47:30,839 --> 00:47:34,382
students or early career researchers who do feel a little bit overwhelmed

732
00:47:34,443 --> 00:47:37,746
by these kind of things, is I try to also be a bit of a safe space.

733
00:47:37,946 --> 00:47:41,990
So if anyone's having a moment like that, if

734
00:47:42,010 --> 00:47:45,393
you see me at a conference, you can always come to me and talk about it, and

735
00:47:45,413 --> 00:47:48,716
we'll go and get a coffee somewhere quiet. But it's always okay as

736
00:47:48,756 --> 00:47:51,898
well. I mean, I work for the Save Our Seas Foundation, so

737
00:47:51,958 --> 00:47:55,701
I represent the foundation when I'm at these events. But

738
00:47:55,741 --> 00:47:59,064
it's also, it's very okay to just take a moment

739
00:47:59,204 --> 00:48:02,526
out for yourself. You know, if you're at lunch, you know, maybe

740
00:48:02,566 --> 00:48:06,409
just go and have a coffee by yourself or go back to your hotel room. You

741
00:48:06,449 --> 00:48:09,832
know, it is a very full on overwhelming thing. So

742
00:48:14,073 --> 00:48:18,338
Yeah, it is not easy. It is not to

743
00:48:18,358 --> 00:48:21,801
do one conference, let alone two in a row. But

744
00:48:21,861 --> 00:48:25,425
it's it's definitely worthwhile. And, and, and,

745
00:48:25,625 --> 00:48:28,789
you know, I'm happy that that you enjoyed yourself. I'm happy you

746
00:48:28,809 --> 00:48:32,332
got to do your presentations and be a part of the panel and

747
00:48:32,392 --> 00:48:36,126
represent Save Our Seas and be able to meet in person

748
00:48:36,927 --> 00:48:40,271
some of the project leaders, but also future guests on the World of Sharks.

749
00:48:40,632 --> 00:48:43,855
I'm sure you met a lot of them. Did you get to do some, before

750
00:48:47,623 --> 00:48:51,266
I did. I did. Yes. And I'm very excited

751
00:48:51,326 --> 00:48:54,649
for them to come out. One I can't talk about because we're

752
00:48:54,689 --> 00:48:58,192
not sure when it's going to air. But we do have one airing next

753
00:48:58,272 --> 00:49:01,494
week with Patricia Chavez. I don't know if you've had her. I

754
00:49:04,277 --> 00:49:07,579
Yes, we've had him on Beyond Jaws. Yeah, we've had

755
00:49:07,659 --> 00:49:11,082
her on Beyond Jaws. She's

756
00:49:12,363 --> 00:49:17,924
She was incredible. Again, Sorry,

757
00:49:17,944 --> 00:49:21,226
I was just going to say again, someone coming from doing workshops all

758
00:49:21,266 --> 00:49:24,388
day and then being in talks all day and social events and

759
00:49:24,428 --> 00:49:27,771
then she was like, yeah, let's do it tonight. And so it

760
00:49:27,791 --> 00:49:31,474
was just full of energy and such a phenomenal

761
00:49:31,494 --> 00:49:34,756
storyteller. So we have Patricia on the podcast to talk about

762
00:49:34,796 --> 00:49:38,339
the work that she's doing with large tooth sawfish in

763
00:49:38,439 --> 00:49:41,940
the Amazonian coast. So yeah, so

764
00:49:41,981 --> 00:49:45,121
that's coming out next week. And then we have some more kind of

765
00:49:45,161 --> 00:49:48,642
lined up moving into next year as well, which is

766
00:49:51,403 --> 00:49:54,564
Yes, I love that. I love that. So like I

767
00:49:54,584 --> 00:49:58,285
said, I'll put a link in the show notes to get access to

768
00:49:58,385 --> 00:50:01,706
the World of Sharks, the podcast. I'll put some links to Save

769
00:50:01,726 --> 00:50:04,967
Our Seas as well, and the other episodes we did with some of our Save

770
00:50:04,987 --> 00:50:08,148
Our Seas crew. Patricia Charvet too, so you

771
00:50:08,168 --> 00:50:12,150
can get a little bit of taste of Beyond Jaws as well as World

772
00:50:12,170 --> 00:50:15,632
of Sharks. But Isla, thank you so much. I know it's

773
00:50:15,712 --> 00:50:19,013
soon after both conferences, so I really appreciate you taking

774
00:50:19,033 --> 00:50:22,155
the time to be with us here today and to be able to

775
00:50:22,195 --> 00:50:25,957
talk about the conferences. I haven't been to the ESA conference yet,

776
00:50:26,117 --> 00:50:29,639
but I'm looking forward to doing that at some point. Maybe

777
00:50:29,659 --> 00:50:33,781
not back-to-back to another conference. I'm not sure if you have your Superwoman capabilities,

778
00:50:33,881 --> 00:50:37,362
but Or Remus for that matter, but I don't think anybody has

779
00:50:37,602 --> 00:50:41,544
Remus superwoman capabilities. But, you know, I'm looking

780
00:50:41,564 --> 00:50:45,926
forward to being able to hang out with you at a conference and

781
00:50:45,966 --> 00:50:49,767
be able to chitchat and get to know each other more and talk podcasting

782
00:50:49,787 --> 00:50:52,949
and science communication. I'm really looking forward to that. So thank you so

783
00:50:53,009 --> 00:50:56,250
much for being on this episode of How to Protect the Ocean.

784
00:50:57,431 --> 00:51:00,632
Likewise, I would love that. And yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been

785
00:51:01,492 --> 00:51:06,051
You bet. Thank

786
00:51:06,071 --> 00:51:09,632
you, Isla, for joining us here on the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. It

787
00:51:09,712 --> 00:51:14,153
was great to have you on and be able to discuss the

788
00:51:14,293 --> 00:51:17,714
much-missed, that I miss so much, the conference, International Marine

789
00:51:17,734 --> 00:51:21,514
Conservation Congress. I don't know as many people as at the European Alaskan

790
00:51:21,534 --> 00:51:24,675
Marine Association, but as you know, we mentioned a number of

791
00:51:24,695 --> 00:51:28,176
people who went to both. Obviously, that doesn't happen every

792
00:51:28,216 --> 00:51:31,396
day. This is not something that occurs all the time, but there are some

793
00:51:31,436 --> 00:51:34,777
people who go from conference to conference to conference. because that's

794
00:51:34,857 --> 00:51:38,279
part of their role. Their role is to engage with various people.

795
00:51:38,660 --> 00:51:42,302
Save Our Seas is an organization that funds other

796
00:51:42,502 --> 00:51:45,944
leaders and when they are able to meet leaders or support leaders during

797
00:51:46,004 --> 00:51:49,386
presentations or be there to see what they've been able to be

798
00:51:49,446 --> 00:51:53,128
up to, what they want to be up to and make those connections and meet potential

799
00:51:53,208 --> 00:51:56,372
new leaders later on, It's a great opportunity to go to these

800
00:51:56,412 --> 00:51:59,937
conferences for Isla as well as her colleagues at Save Our Seas Foundation

801
00:52:00,338 --> 00:52:03,743
to be able to interact with people and

802
00:52:03,964 --> 00:52:08,110
maybe recruit some people and suggest that they apply

803
00:52:08,190 --> 00:52:11,534
for grants and foundation money. later on. So always

804
00:52:11,574 --> 00:52:14,916
a great place to do that. And conferences are

805
00:52:14,936 --> 00:52:18,219
a lot of fun. I've talked about conferences before. You know,

806
00:52:18,379 --> 00:52:22,522
Isla mentioned at the end of some of her top strategies

807
00:52:22,702 --> 00:52:26,144
for conferences. And I think it's really important to

808
00:52:26,204 --> 00:52:29,586
have your own strategy, come up with your own strategy. Use

809
00:52:29,626 --> 00:52:32,989
some other people's as you go along and you'll learn as you go. But being

810
00:52:33,029 --> 00:52:36,452
at a conference is crucial. In-person conferences, as

811
00:52:36,512 --> 00:52:39,595
much as I love virtual conferences and the ease of virtual conferences and

812
00:52:39,615 --> 00:52:43,099
the expense or the lack of expense, in-person

813
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,983
conferences are something completely different. And if you ever have the chance, go

814
00:52:47,063 --> 00:52:50,146
to the International Marine Conservation Congress. It is one of the

815
00:52:50,186 --> 00:52:53,670
best conferences. It is so supportive. It's very social.

816
00:52:54,491 --> 00:52:57,914
It's very much a family when you go there. and

817
00:52:57,994 --> 00:53:01,155
you get to meet new people each and every time. I was told that

818
00:53:01,255 --> 00:53:04,697
this time there were a lot of new people there and I think that's great

819
00:53:04,797 --> 00:53:08,138
to continue on with the tradition of

820
00:53:08,238 --> 00:53:12,079
making it a very inclusive, very fun conferences

821
00:53:12,139 --> 00:53:15,441
that can get a lot out of it. Every conference that I've been to for

822
00:53:15,461 --> 00:53:18,702
the IMCC is extremely different and I think that's

823
00:53:18,742 --> 00:53:22,383
really important because the people make up the

824
00:53:22,463 --> 00:53:25,744
bulk of the culture at this conference and it's always been great

825
00:53:25,764 --> 00:53:29,535
people and I heard the same thing happening that Ayla told you and others

826
00:53:29,615 --> 00:53:32,836
that I told me at the IMCC. So, love

827
00:53:32,856 --> 00:53:36,217
to hear that. I'm continuing to hear that. And I love to hear Ayla talk

828
00:53:36,257 --> 00:53:39,558
about the conference. It sounded like a lot of fun. It sounded exhausting and draining on

829
00:53:39,578 --> 00:53:43,158
her social battery, but she made it through flying colors and

830
00:53:43,198 --> 00:53:46,319
was able to tell us about it. So thank you for that. And I want to thank you.

831
00:53:46,359 --> 00:53:50,120
If you have gone to a conference or you want to go to a conference and you

832
00:53:50,140 --> 00:53:53,561
have questions around that, feel free to shoot them in a comment

833
00:53:53,641 --> 00:53:57,064
on Spotify, on YouTube. If you want to shoot me a DM

834
00:53:57,224 --> 00:54:00,689
on Instagram, at how to protect the ocean is the as the account at

835
00:54:00,829 --> 00:54:04,234
how to protect the ocean. But I just love to hear what you think of the podcast,

836
00:54:04,254 --> 00:54:07,578
what you think of conferences, marine conservation, ask me any kind of question, always

837
00:54:07,718 --> 00:54:10,863
looking to continue the conversation that we start here on

838
00:54:10,883 --> 00:54:14,386
the podcast. That's the beauty of having a podcast is to hear back

839
00:54:14,446 --> 00:54:17,867
and engage with people. It's always a lot of fun. So thanks

840
00:54:17,907 --> 00:54:21,529
again to Isla. Really appreciate it. Thanks again to Save Our Seas Foundation

841
00:54:21,569 --> 00:54:24,590
for representing at each of those conferences. And I

842
00:54:24,610 --> 00:54:27,691
want to thank you for listening to this episode of the How to

843
00:54:27,711 --> 00:54:30,772
Protect the Ocean podcast. I am your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to