Plastic Pollution Research: How Microplastics Threaten Coral Reefs and What We Can Do About It

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How do microplastics affect tropical

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marine systems like coral reefs,

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lionfish, or even just the shoreline?

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Sometimes you're walking along a beach

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and you look down and you see these blue

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and white and maybe green little pieces

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that are kind of laid out under the sand

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or maybe they're just exposed from the

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sand along this beach.

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You're on a beautiful beach, you've got a

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beautiful sunset going, the waves are

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crashing in and you see these little

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pieces. Those are microplastics. Those

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are not part of the ocean.

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They came in from the ocean at some point

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and they're just laid out on the beach

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and that can affect different types of

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animals within marine systems.

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So today we're going to actually discuss

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how it affects marine ecosystems and what

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we need to do about them and if policies

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and beach cleanups actually help.

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We are going to talk to Dr. Lisa

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Rodriguez, who is an associate professor

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of geography and the environment at

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Villanova University.

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She is here to talk about her research

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and her lab's research on microplastics

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in marine tropical environments,

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including coral reefs, including

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lionfish, including the beaches along

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every shoreline that she works at in

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Puerto Rico, in Hawaii, and so forth.

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We're going to talk all about

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microplastics and the marine environment

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on this episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another

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exciting episode of the How to Protect

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the Ocean podcast. I'm

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your host, Andrew Lewin.

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And this is the podcast where you find

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out what's happening with the ocean, how

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you can speak up with the ocean, what you

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can do to live for a better ocean by

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taking action on today's episode.

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We are going to be talking about

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microplastics in the marine environment.

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We've heard about microplastics being in

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the air, in the water, in

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our bodies. It's everywhere.

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It is something that is a huge concern

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from a health perspective of humans and

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from an environmental health perspective.

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When we talk about the planet, we use

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microplastics and single plastics more

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and more every day beyond plastic straws.

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Okay, we'll go beyond, although we

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discussed it in this interview, we go

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beyond plastic straws. We go and just

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what connects and what traps coral reefs

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and how it's affecting coral reefs, how

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it affects fish like

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lionfish, which is invasive.

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So we're going to study those. And we

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also look at sediment cores. We talk a

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little bit at the end about studies to

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come and when microplastics actually

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started in the marine environment.

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This is a great episode. Dr. Lisa

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Rodriguez, a professor of geography and

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the environment at Villanova University,

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is here today to discuss her research on

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microplastics in the marine environment,

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not just on coral reefs, which is, I

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thought, first, what we were going to be

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talking about focusing most of the show

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on, even though we

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talked a lot about that.

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But there's other parts of the marine

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environment that are affected by

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microplastics and something that we need

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to be concerned with. And we need to make

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sure that the efforts that are done with

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beach and coastal cleanups, as well as

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policies in place to ban specific single

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use plastics, do they actually work?

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And sometimes they may work, but we don't

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actually see it for ourselves anecdotally

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when we're out in the marine environment.

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It's a little bit misleading, but the

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data shows that it actually works.

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So we're going to find out all about that

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and why that is in this interview with

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Dr. Lisa Rodriguez. So here is the

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interview enjoy and I

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will talk to you after.

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Hey Lisa, welcome to the How to Protect

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the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk

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about microplastics and

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their effects on coral reefs?

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Hey Andrew, thanks for having me. I'm

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excited to be here and

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to chat more about that.

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All right, I'm looking forward to this is

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gonna be a lot of fun. I say a lot of fun

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because we're gonna be talking about

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studies and research that are that's

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going on. Obviously the topic doesn't

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sound like a lot of fun in terms of the

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effects on coral reefs, but we're going

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to get into all of that. Before we do,

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though, Lisa, why don't you just let us

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know who you are and what you do?

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Sure. My name is Lisa Rodriguez. I'm a

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professor at Villanova University, which

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is just outside of Philadelphia.

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Awesome. Now, studying in Philadelphia

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coral reefs, not something that you find

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every day. I live in Burlington, Ontario,

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just outside of Toronto, surrounded by

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the Great Lakes. I say I'm a marine

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biologist. Everybody's like, what are you

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doing in Ontario? So I want to know how

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did you end up in in in Philadelphia?

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Obviously a fantastic university. How did

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you end up in Philadelphia?

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Yeah, so I first moved to Philadelphia to

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do my PhD here at the University of

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Pennsylvania where I did study coral

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reefs. Most of that field work though was

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done in Hawaii. So

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that's not a bad deal, right?

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Not a bad deal at all.

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Part of your time in Philadelphia, part

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of your time in Hawaii. Yeah. Before

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that, I actually was in your neck of the

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woods. I did a master's at

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the University of Toronto.

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Awesome.

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Yeah. I lived in Toronto for a few years.

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I got my undergrad from Dalhousie

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University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. But I

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actually grew up and I think where a lot

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of my interest came from is I grew up in

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Bermuda. And so on a tiny island in the

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Atlantic surrounded by corals and coral

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reefs. And I think, you know, that was

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just is what sort of generated my

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interest in marine biology and corals.

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And I think that's sort of what led me

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down this path to where I am today.

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That's quite an adventurous childhood to

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grow up in somewhere like, you know, very

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small island of Bermuda. That's a huge

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destination from for people here in

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Canada because it's so close. And it's

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such a lovely island.

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I had a friend who lived out there. She

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was an accountant over there, which a lot

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of accountants start their careers over

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there. And she would scuba dive on on her

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as a hobby. And she learned to scuba dive

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there. And then she

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would got into the internet.

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And then she just comes in a bit of retaliate. And
then led her to a group group part of TagOUT G

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showing out, a supervisor who wrote this

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book of ten textiles on an Indian site, he thought he let her do a subpartite. But she was like, Well, like, I can't stop. And then she didn't express her ability to work specifically up to find a Pra Fantasy that that she had just published. If not, I'm talking aboutNo one practice.

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or seeing the degradation

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of reefs and other animals

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and environments as you grew up.

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Did you notice as a child

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or was it just like so young

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that you didn't have a

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chance to notice that?

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I think some aspects I noticed.

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So certainly there were

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things that would wash up

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on the shore when you

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would go to the beach

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that clearly didn't

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come from local areas,

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but I definitely more when I go back now,

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my family still lives there.

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And when I travel back over the years

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that I've lived away

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that I feel like those are the times

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where I've really noticed it much more

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is just sort of seeing

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that increase over time.

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It was actually a few years ago,

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I was visiting over the winter holidays

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and we had all gone out, my

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family and other families,

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we'd gone out to a

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restaurant that is right on the beach.

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And after we had lunch, we

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were walking along the beach.

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And I was so surprised by

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basically every step that I took,

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there were pieces of

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microplastic that I could see

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as we were just walking.

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And that was actually, I

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mean, I'd studied corals

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for many years prior to

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that, but that was probably

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the first time where I

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realized, oh, this is something else

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that I think we really

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need to learn more about.

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It's so interesting you

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mentioned that because I was just,

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I just got back from a trip

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in Hawaii, beautiful place.

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Obviously, you just talked about it, you

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know, a lot of corals,

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a lot of studies that

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are being done there.

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And the one thing I noticed, we went to

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this wonderful beach,

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Lanakai Beach, gorgeous area on a wall.

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Oh, I know that. Yeah,

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that is a great place.

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It's beautiful. The sand is

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like fine, fine, fine sand.

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It feels so great on your feet.

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We that's the beach where we notice the

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microplastics the most.

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And the funny thing is I overheard some

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people saying like the people

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that were besides they thought it was

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something from the ocean.

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Like they thought it was, you know,

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sometimes you have these little pieces

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of what looks like

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glass, but it's not glass.

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It's actually from the ocean.

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And they thought that's what it was.

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They thought it was from the ocean.

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They didn't like the fact that I told

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them, actually, it's not marine

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biologist here.

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That's not from the ocean.

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I mean, it's from the

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ocean, but it shouldn't be.

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It's a microplastic.

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But they had no idea.

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Do you think there is a like from I mean,

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obviously you and I know,

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especially doing a lot of work on

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microplastics and so forth.

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Do you find that there's a lot of people

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that may not know how to identify

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those microplastics if they just see it

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on a beach because sometimes it's kind

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of hidden. Sometimes it's white and

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sometimes it's blue.

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So sometimes it could look like a shelf.

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You don't touch it.

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Do you find that there's a little bit of

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that naivete around that?

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Absolutely. Yeah.

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And I think I think that goes for all

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kinds of litter and debris.

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Right. We don't.

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So, you know, if you think about just

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driving your car around the road or

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something, unless you what what I've

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01:09:07,500 --> 01:09:09,416
learned in the last couple of years,

272
01:09:09,416 --> 01:09:11,666
working with people doing cleanups is

273
01:09:11,666 --> 01:09:14,666
that when you start looking for it,

274
01:09:15,083 --> 01:09:16,166
realize that it's so

275
01:09:16,166 --> 01:09:17,375
pervasive and is everywhere.

276
01:09:17,916 --> 01:09:20,750
But that until you reach that point where

277
01:09:20,750 --> 01:09:22,875
your eye is kind of trained for it

278
01:09:22,875 --> 01:09:24,958
and doesn't take long to become sort of

279
01:09:24,958 --> 01:09:28,625
trained with this is then you see it

280
01:09:28,625 --> 01:09:30,500
everywhere and it's actually really

281
01:09:30,500 --> 01:09:32,250
difficult not to see it.

282
01:09:32,291 --> 01:09:34,791
Like we actually apologize to people when

283
01:09:34,791 --> 01:09:37,208
they join us in cleanups for the first

284
01:09:37,208 --> 01:09:38,958
time because because we

285
01:09:38,958 --> 01:09:40,500
say, you know, this is great.

286
01:09:40,500 --> 01:09:41,625
And we're happy that you're here.

287
01:09:41,666 --> 01:09:43,375
But just so you know, you're never going

288
01:09:43,375 --> 01:09:44,541
to look and you're going

289
01:09:44,541 --> 01:09:45,416
to see this everywhere.

290
01:09:45,416 --> 01:09:47,125
No matter where you look, you'll see.

291
01:09:47,125 --> 01:09:50,125
Yeah. And so that applies to what we

292
01:09:50,125 --> 01:09:52,333
would call macro debris, like the larger

293
01:09:52,333 --> 01:09:54,958
pieces, as well as the microplastics is

294
01:09:54,958 --> 01:09:56,416
once you start to see it,

295
01:09:56,666 --> 01:09:58,041
you realize just how

296
01:09:58,041 --> 01:09:59,916
pervasive it really is.

297
01:10:00,416 --> 01:10:01,208
And it's like you want

298
01:10:01,208 --> 01:10:02,708
more people to know that.

299
01:10:03,416 --> 01:10:05,291
But you also don't want to ruin people's

300
01:10:05,291 --> 01:10:07,750
sort of idea of what the ocean is and

301
01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:09,041
what it should be and what a beach should

302
01:10:09,041 --> 01:10:11,000
be our shoreline should be.

303
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,041
But once you learn it's like, ah, these

304
01:10:13,041 --> 01:10:14,458
scientists, they're always bringing us

305
01:10:14,458 --> 01:10:15,458
down, making us more

306
01:10:15,458 --> 01:10:16,750
aware of stuff, you know.

307
01:10:17,458 --> 01:10:19,833
But it's it's it's interesting, you know,

308
01:10:19,833 --> 01:10:21,750
as as you grow up, you know, in a place

309
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:24,791
like Bermuda and the idea of just Bermuda

310
01:10:24,791 --> 01:10:25,875
just sounds wonderful.

311
01:10:26,083 --> 01:10:29,166
Right. It must have been a fun childhood.

312
01:10:29,291 --> 01:10:30,958
And you you again, you don't, as you

313
01:10:30,958 --> 01:10:32,041
mentioned, you probably didn't really

314
01:10:32,041 --> 01:10:33,208
notice a lot of the things

315
01:10:33,208 --> 01:10:34,583
that that happened there.

316
01:10:34,583 --> 01:10:36,291
And maybe, you know, when you're a child,

317
01:10:36,291 --> 01:10:38,250
like when I was a child, it maybe wasn't

318
01:10:38,250 --> 01:10:40,333
as persistent as it was today.

319
01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:42,583
And as we use more and more plastics,

320
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:44,333
when I when I grew up, Coke

321
01:10:44,333 --> 01:10:45,875
was still out of a glass bottle.

322
01:10:45,875 --> 01:10:46,916
You know, that's the

323
01:10:46,916 --> 01:10:48,333
generation that I've from.

324
01:10:48,333 --> 01:10:49,375
So may not have been

325
01:10:49,375 --> 01:10:51,666
persistent as it is today.

326
01:10:52,666 --> 01:10:56,000
What type of sort of like games did you

327
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:58,458
get up to or what kind of like life did

328
01:10:58,458 --> 01:10:59,583
you have as a child

329
01:10:59,583 --> 01:11:00,708
growing up in an island?

330
01:11:00,708 --> 01:11:03,125
Were you in the water a lot or, you know,

331
01:11:03,125 --> 01:11:04,083
some island communities don't

332
01:11:04,083 --> 01:11:05,291
like to be in the water a lot.

333
01:11:05,291 --> 01:11:06,250
There's a definite fear.

334
01:11:06,916 --> 01:11:08,916
Were you always, always wanting to be in

335
01:11:08,916 --> 01:11:10,166
the water growing up, you

336
01:11:10,166 --> 01:11:11,166
know, being a marine biologist?

337
01:11:12,208 --> 01:11:13,291
I definitely was.

338
01:11:13,541 --> 01:11:15,291
I mean, I don't I had I know what you

339
01:11:15,291 --> 01:11:16,791
mean about sometimes people

340
01:11:16,791 --> 01:11:18,916
prefer not to be in the water.

341
01:11:18,916 --> 01:11:20,416
And I definitely know people

342
01:11:20,416 --> 01:11:21,833
who fit into that category.

343
01:11:21,833 --> 01:11:23,416
But for for me, I was

344
01:11:23,416 --> 01:11:26,250
always I was always in the ocean.

345
01:11:27,708 --> 01:11:29,333
So, you know, that's where I learned how

346
01:11:29,333 --> 01:11:31,791
to swim, was being sort of thrown out of

347
01:11:31,791 --> 01:11:34,458
a boat and sort of to

348
01:11:34,458 --> 01:11:35,708
see what's going to happen.

349
01:11:37,583 --> 01:11:39,250
And and, you know, a

350
01:11:39,250 --> 01:11:40,625
lot of my summer jobs

351
01:11:42,500 --> 01:11:44,625
through the time that I was in school,

352
01:11:44,625 --> 01:11:45,666
but also when I would go

353
01:11:45,666 --> 01:11:47,583
home from university were

354
01:11:47,833 --> 01:11:50,625
were related to to the

355
01:11:50,625 --> 01:11:52,125
marine environment in some way.

356
01:11:52,416 --> 01:11:52,916
It's just some

357
01:11:52,916 --> 01:11:54,500
aspects of science locally.

358
01:11:56,500 --> 01:11:58,583
I like my favorite place there still, I

359
01:11:58,583 --> 01:12:00,166
feel like I could give them a plug is if

360
01:12:00,166 --> 01:12:01,083
you if you're visiting

361
01:12:01,083 --> 01:12:02,916
from you to go check out the

362
01:12:03,416 --> 01:12:05,583
Bermuda Aquarium Museum and Zoo.

363
01:12:05,583 --> 01:12:06,958
It's like a wonderful place.

364
01:12:07,708 --> 01:12:09,000
You can't get into the water.

365
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,083
That's like a really great place to see

366
01:12:11,083 --> 01:12:12,791
the fish and of the other

367
01:12:12,791 --> 01:12:14,125
animals that we have there.

368
01:12:15,250 --> 01:12:18,041
And really just that I spent a lot of my

369
01:12:18,041 --> 01:12:21,916
time there and then also involved in

370
01:12:21,916 --> 01:12:24,375
research as I got older as well.

371
01:12:25,458 --> 01:12:26,750
And so, yeah, I really did.

372
01:12:26,958 --> 01:12:29,000
We really did spend our time like I

373
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,583
remember playing with sea cucumbers on

374
01:12:31,583 --> 01:12:33,458
the beach in my summer holidays because

375
01:12:33,458 --> 01:12:35,708
we would collect them and then play with

376
01:12:35,708 --> 01:12:37,375
them on the on the beach afterwards

377
01:12:37,375 --> 01:12:38,625
before putting them back.

378
01:12:38,916 --> 01:12:39,166
Right.

379
01:12:39,833 --> 01:12:41,750
Yeah, so it's just to me, it was just

380
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:43,208
like the normal thing that you did.

381
01:12:43,416 --> 01:12:44,291
And those were the kinds of

382
01:12:44,291 --> 01:12:45,375
things that I learned about

383
01:12:46,916 --> 01:12:50,583
and really grew to appreciate and love.

384
01:12:50,583 --> 01:12:53,125
And it was really, I think, getting my

385
01:12:53,125 --> 01:12:56,916
interest in science and and having, you

386
01:12:56,916 --> 01:12:58,500
know, sort of a more science background

387
01:12:58,500 --> 01:13:00,250
as I went into college and

388
01:13:00,250 --> 01:13:01,916
university was really about

389
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,083
wanting to understand how those different

390
01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:06,666
things worked, what was

391
01:13:06,666 --> 01:13:07,625
going on in the ecosystem.

392
01:13:09,125 --> 01:13:10,291
And I was just always really interested

393
01:13:10,291 --> 01:13:11,791
in just learning more about them.

394
01:13:12,583 --> 01:13:14,916
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's

395
01:13:14,916 --> 01:13:17,083
for me as someone who has the same likes.

396
01:13:17,083 --> 01:13:18,500
I mean, that is the dream, right, is to

397
01:13:18,500 --> 01:13:20,458
grow up and to be around the ocean.

398
01:13:20,958 --> 01:13:23,291
Can you pinpoint a time in your life

399
01:13:23,291 --> 01:13:25,875
where you're just like, I want to learn

400
01:13:25,875 --> 01:13:27,708
more about these and this is what I want

401
01:13:27,708 --> 01:13:29,250
to do as a career, like as a because

402
01:13:29,250 --> 01:13:30,208
growing up, you know,

403
01:13:30,208 --> 01:13:31,250
you're near the Bermuda

404
01:13:32,541 --> 01:13:33,916
Institute of Oceanography,

405
01:13:34,208 --> 01:13:35,416
you are around the water.

406
01:13:35,583 --> 01:13:37,375
Was there any time in that childhood or

407
01:13:37,375 --> 01:13:39,041
did that come later as

408
01:13:39,041 --> 01:13:40,041
you went to university?

409
01:13:40,458 --> 01:13:42,041
And I so I think it was

410
01:13:42,041 --> 01:13:43,500
really early on, actually.

411
01:13:44,041 --> 01:13:44,250
Yeah.

412
01:13:45,666 --> 01:13:49,166
Like I said, for me, it was there.

413
01:13:49,500 --> 01:13:51,500
I was sort of spent more time at the

414
01:13:51,500 --> 01:13:53,250
aquarium and they have a research

415
01:13:53,250 --> 01:13:54,583
component there as well.

416
01:13:55,291 --> 01:13:59,625
And so I think, you know, probably from

417
01:13:59,625 --> 01:14:01,583
the time that I was in middle school,

418
01:14:01,875 --> 01:14:04,958
maybe even earlier than that, I I knew

419
01:14:04,958 --> 01:14:07,500
that I like my dream job probably still

420
01:14:07,500 --> 01:14:08,750
would be to work there.

421
01:14:11,333 --> 01:14:14,708
But yeah, like I knew that I didn't I

422
01:14:14,708 --> 01:14:17,000
didn't know like what it meant to be a

423
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,250
scientist really or to be a professor.

424
01:14:19,583 --> 01:14:21,250
So that wasn't on my radar.

425
01:14:21,625 --> 01:14:23,291
Right. But I knew that

426
01:14:23,291 --> 01:14:24,541
I wanted to do science.

427
01:14:24,541 --> 01:14:26,750
They knew that I wanted to do science, be

428
01:14:26,750 --> 01:14:28,750
involved in science in some way related

429
01:14:28,750 --> 01:14:31,083
to to the marine environment.

430
01:14:31,500 --> 01:14:33,541
And so and so that's actually why I ended

431
01:14:33,541 --> 01:14:35,625
up going to Dalhousie was that they have

432
01:14:35,625 --> 01:14:36,833
a really good marine

433
01:14:36,833 --> 01:14:39,583
program there on the East Coast.

434
01:14:39,958 --> 01:14:41,208
Yeah. Yeah. And they've they've

435
01:14:41,208 --> 01:14:42,458
diversified quite a bit now.

436
01:14:42,458 --> 01:14:44,125
Their marine affairs program and their

437
01:14:44,125 --> 01:14:45,833
their science and research

438
01:14:45,833 --> 01:14:48,083
is just top notch in Canada.

439
01:14:48,083 --> 01:14:49,833
It's it's it's quite lovely.

440
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:52,208
That's awesome. So you have like, you

441
01:14:52,208 --> 01:14:52,958
know, growing up from, you know,

442
01:14:52,958 --> 01:14:54,250
obviously Canada is really close.

443
01:14:54,791 --> 01:14:56,000
So you learn about Canada

444
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,375
and then you end up in the U.S.

445
01:14:58,625 --> 01:14:59,416
Right. Afterwards.

446
01:15:00,125 --> 01:15:02,958
And when you come out of of Dalhousie,

447
01:15:03,541 --> 01:15:05,333
was it still coral reefs on your mind?

448
01:15:05,541 --> 01:15:07,625
Was that still what you wanted to study

449
01:15:07,625 --> 01:15:09,833
or was there is was is that when the

450
01:15:09,833 --> 01:15:11,625
microplastics started to come into play?

451
01:15:12,291 --> 01:15:16,125
No. So, yeah, my sort of research sort of

452
01:15:16,125 --> 01:15:20,583
trajectory was after I finished, I had a

453
01:15:20,583 --> 01:15:22,666
degree in biology from Dalhousie.

454
01:15:24,291 --> 01:15:26,208
I knew that I wanted to do a master's.

455
01:15:26,250 --> 01:15:28,208
I really enjoyed I had some experience

456
01:15:28,208 --> 01:15:30,708
doing research at Dalhousie and I knew

457
01:15:30,708 --> 01:15:32,375
that I wanted to kind of keep doing that.

458
01:15:32,833 --> 01:15:34,000
So I looked around.

459
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,041
I ended up doing a project actually

460
01:15:37,041 --> 01:15:39,500
partially based in Bermuda and partially

461
01:15:39,500 --> 01:15:41,916
based in Toronto on.

462
01:15:42,291 --> 01:15:43,875
I worked in a lab that focused on

463
01:15:43,875 --> 01:15:48,166
crustacean behavior and I studied an

464
01:15:48,166 --> 01:15:49,500
organism that's on reefs.

465
01:15:49,833 --> 01:15:51,666
It's a hermit crab that's

466
01:15:51,666 --> 01:15:52,958
actually endemic to Bermuda.

467
01:15:53,666 --> 01:15:55,875
OK, that's actually really cool.

468
01:15:56,125 --> 01:15:57,791
It's a really cool hermit crabs.

469
01:15:57,791 --> 01:15:58,458
Hermit crabs are awesome.

470
01:15:59,458 --> 01:16:02,041
That one of the things that I found out

471
01:16:02,041 --> 01:16:05,375
about it is that the the males are

472
01:16:05,375 --> 01:16:07,833
primarily mobile in the way that we would

473
01:16:07,833 --> 01:16:09,000
imagine hermit crabs to be.

474
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,791
They walk around in shells, but it's

475
01:16:11,791 --> 01:16:14,500
unique in that the majority of females of

476
01:16:14,500 --> 01:16:16,750
the species actually live in tubes that

477
01:16:16,750 --> 01:16:17,916
are fixed to the reef.

478
01:16:17,916 --> 01:16:19,666
And so they cannot move around.

479
01:16:20,416 --> 01:16:21,875
And I did not know that.

480
01:16:22,041 --> 01:16:23,791
Yeah. And so it's a really interesting.

481
01:16:24,375 --> 01:16:25,583
Again, I would. This is one.

482
01:16:25,875 --> 01:16:26,583
I haven't studied

483
01:16:26,583 --> 01:16:27,875
this in years and years.

484
01:16:27,875 --> 01:16:29,333
Yeah. Look at it again.

485
01:16:29,541 --> 01:16:32,291
But there's there's a lot of kind of just

486
01:16:32,291 --> 01:16:34,291
interesting behavior that we studied

487
01:16:34,291 --> 01:16:36,541
related related to that, like whether

488
01:16:36,541 --> 01:16:37,875
there was some choice in

489
01:16:37,875 --> 01:16:39,291
what the females were doing.

490
01:16:39,916 --> 01:16:40,833
Turns out that there's not.

491
01:16:40,833 --> 01:16:42,291
They're kind of relegated to live in

492
01:16:42,291 --> 01:16:45,833
things like suboptimal little tubes.

493
01:16:47,583 --> 01:16:47,791
Yeah.

494
01:16:48,416 --> 01:16:50,333
That's so I studied that at the

495
01:16:50,333 --> 01:16:51,000
University of Toronto.

496
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,666
I actually took a year off after that and

497
01:16:54,666 --> 01:16:57,583
worked in Bermuda at at the aquarium

498
01:16:57,583 --> 01:16:59,000
doing research more on

499
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,416
terrestrial work there.

500
01:17:02,958 --> 01:17:05,250
And then I ended up finding an

501
01:17:05,250 --> 01:17:06,541
opportunity at the University of

502
01:17:06,541 --> 01:17:08,041
Pennsylvania to do a PhD.

503
01:17:08,041 --> 01:17:09,583
And that's really where I got into like

504
01:17:09,583 --> 01:17:11,416
corals, coral ecosystems.

505
01:17:12,166 --> 01:17:12,375
Right.

506
01:17:12,916 --> 01:17:15,500
And it wasn't until in the last sort of

507
01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:17,250
like five or six years that I've been at

508
01:17:17,250 --> 01:17:22,250
Villanova as a faculty member that it

509
01:17:22,250 --> 01:17:25,583
just sort of became clear that studying

510
01:17:25,583 --> 01:17:29,958
plastics, marine debris in general, as

511
01:17:29,958 --> 01:17:32,458
well as micro plastics was something that

512
01:17:32,458 --> 01:17:34,916
I would like to do to more of.

513
01:17:35,416 --> 01:17:38,541
I've been working with a colleague of

514
01:17:38,541 --> 01:17:41,000
mine in my department who focuses on

515
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:43,291
river ecosystems and we were studying in

516
01:17:43,291 --> 01:17:46,958
Puerto Rico, the impacts of pollutants

517
01:17:46,958 --> 01:17:49,083
coming down the river, mostly focused on

518
01:17:49,083 --> 01:17:50,916
sort of dissolved pollutants like

519
01:17:50,916 --> 01:17:53,291
sediments and things like that.

520
01:18:01,875 --> 01:18:05,291
And so we were able to get

521
01:18:05,291 --> 01:18:08,083
funding to continue that work.

522
01:18:08,083 --> 01:18:09,708
And that's kind of how I sort of

523
01:18:09,708 --> 01:18:11,166
transitioned into that area.

524
01:18:11,875 --> 01:18:12,041
Okay.

525
01:18:12,208 --> 01:18:14,666
And now, you know, we've seen, you know,

526
01:18:14,666 --> 01:18:16,083
micro plastics really come to the

527
01:18:16,083 --> 01:18:19,166
forefront of sort of one of the major

528
01:18:19,166 --> 01:18:21,666
issues, I would say in in the ocean in

529
01:18:21,666 --> 01:18:23,125
general, even in our world.

530
01:18:23,166 --> 01:18:25,000
I think it's really exploded over the

531
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,416
last, I'd say five or six years,

532
01:18:27,416 --> 01:18:28,791
especially the last two years where we're

533
01:18:28,791 --> 01:18:31,083
starting to see studies come out and

534
01:18:31,083 --> 01:18:34,000
being published of, you know, micro

535
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,916
plastics being in our body, being in the

536
01:18:35,916 --> 01:18:37,416
air, being in the water.

537
01:18:37,666 --> 01:18:40,000
And as as marine biologists growing up in

538
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,166
the last two decades, you

539
01:18:42,166 --> 01:18:44,666
know, we've seen microplastic.

540
01:18:44,666 --> 01:18:46,208
We knew that was a microplastic problem

541
01:18:46,208 --> 01:18:47,750
before there was a microplastic, even

542
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:49,041
just a plastic debris problem.

543
01:18:49,041 --> 01:18:50,166
We knew that was a problem.

544
01:18:50,166 --> 01:18:51,583
We could see it, you know, continuing.

545
01:18:52,291 --> 01:18:53,625
Not much had been done with

546
01:18:53,625 --> 01:18:55,541
it over the last two decades.

547
01:18:55,875 --> 01:18:57,375
Now we're really starting to see more

548
01:18:57,375 --> 01:18:59,666
policies put in place, studies being

549
01:18:59,666 --> 01:19:01,291
done, really starting to see some of the

550
01:19:01,291 --> 01:19:04,041
major consequences of these actions and

551
01:19:04,041 --> 01:19:05,500
the non-actions of

552
01:19:05,500 --> 01:19:08,166
what hasn't taken place.

553
01:19:08,208 --> 01:19:11,916
Seeing, you know, studying

554
01:19:11,916 --> 01:19:14,000
coral reefs and marine debris.

555
01:19:14,250 --> 01:19:16,125
Why coral reefs at this point?

556
01:19:16,583 --> 01:19:19,041
You know, like it's such a broad subject

557
01:19:19,041 --> 01:19:19,833
and obviously you want to

558
01:19:19,833 --> 01:19:21,041
niche into a certain place.

559
01:19:21,250 --> 01:19:21,958
Totally understandable.

560
01:19:22,750 --> 01:19:23,500
Why coral reefs?

561
01:19:25,125 --> 01:19:27,166
So there's there are so many other

562
01:19:27,166 --> 01:19:28,750
stressors that are on coral reefs, some

563
01:19:28,750 --> 01:19:29,625
of which I've studied.

564
01:19:30,708 --> 01:19:32,875
And so this, you know, we all there are

565
01:19:32,875 --> 01:19:34,541
many studies that have shown when you

566
01:19:34,541 --> 01:19:36,375
have these sort of multiple stressors,

567
01:19:36,375 --> 01:19:37,916
just like with humans, you know,

568
01:19:38,250 --> 01:19:40,500
you're sick, you're more likely to have

569
01:19:40,500 --> 01:19:43,125
something else happen to you or you, you

570
01:19:43,125 --> 01:19:44,875
know, it's harder to do things.

571
01:19:46,833 --> 01:19:48,791
And that's the same thing with corals is

572
01:19:48,791 --> 01:19:50,541
while they're much simpler organisms,

573
01:19:51,083 --> 01:19:53,041
they're, they're definitely this sort of

574
01:19:53,041 --> 01:19:56,375
compounding aspect of multiple stressors

575
01:19:56,375 --> 01:19:58,375
is something that is really important

576
01:19:58,375 --> 01:19:59,000
because we're sort of

577
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:00,750
throwing many, many things at them.

578
01:20:01,750 --> 01:20:04,750
And so this sort of felt like kind of a

579
01:20:04,750 --> 01:20:08,750
natural next step for the research that I

580
01:20:08,750 --> 01:20:11,500
was doing was previously mostly focused

581
01:20:11,500 --> 01:20:14,250
on some of the physiological impacts,

582
01:20:14,250 --> 01:20:15,500
like sort of what's happening in the

583
01:20:15,500 --> 01:20:17,791
corals body when

584
01:20:17,791 --> 01:20:19,750
different stress stressors happen.

585
01:20:20,750 --> 01:20:24,041
And so to sort of now tie in this other

586
01:20:24,041 --> 01:20:27,375
aspect, I know we haven't directly there.

587
01:20:27,666 --> 01:20:28,958
There are other studies out there. We

588
01:20:28,958 --> 01:20:32,125
haven't directly in my lab looked at what

589
01:20:32,125 --> 01:20:34,625
the direct impacts are of microplastics

590
01:20:34,625 --> 01:20:37,000
on corals in part because it's very

591
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,750
difficult to study in the field, which I

592
01:20:39,750 --> 01:20:41,041
think is where the

593
01:20:41,041 --> 01:20:41,750
important questions are.

594
01:20:41,791 --> 01:20:45,666
And so instead what we've been doing is

595
01:20:45,666 --> 01:20:47,541
looking at some of the more broader

596
01:20:47,541 --> 01:20:51,833
ecosystem impacts of beaches, mangroves

597
01:20:51,833 --> 01:20:54,333
and tropical river systems that are sort

598
01:20:54,333 --> 01:20:58,208
of all adjacent to coral reef ecosystems.

599
01:21:07,833 --> 01:21:08,750
And so we're looking at where it lands.

600
01:21:09,166 --> 01:21:10,833
So like, where does it sit for a little

601
01:21:10,833 --> 01:21:13,041
for a while, because then that can kind

602
01:21:13,041 --> 01:21:16,000
of tell us where we're more likely to

603
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,708
find microplastics and maybe also give us

604
01:21:18,708 --> 01:21:21,375
some clues as to where, where we can kind

605
01:21:21,375 --> 01:21:23,625
of do some prevention and

606
01:21:23,625 --> 01:21:25,000
more management activities.

607
01:21:27,458 --> 01:21:28,458
And so I just got into a lot there and I

608
01:21:28,458 --> 01:21:29,541
want to kind of break it down a little

609
01:21:29,541 --> 01:21:31,500
bit. Sure. There's there was so much

610
01:21:31,500 --> 01:21:33,500
there that was kind of juicy from a

611
01:21:33,500 --> 01:21:35,125
scientific point of view that I wanted to

612
01:21:35,125 --> 01:21:36,666
break down. We talked about cumulative

613
01:21:36,666 --> 01:21:38,958
effects in in coral reefs. Now,

614
01:21:38,958 --> 01:21:40,583
obviously, you know, we have bleaching

615
01:21:40,583 --> 01:21:44,083
because of major heat, sun, like even

616
01:21:44,083 --> 01:21:46,625
even more sunlight exposure. We have

617
01:21:46,625 --> 01:21:49,041
ocean acidification are some of the three

618
01:21:49,041 --> 01:21:52,541
major things that have caused, you know,

619
01:21:52,750 --> 01:21:55,000
mass coral bleaching in the past and even

620
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:56,125
just the development of

621
01:21:56,125 --> 01:21:56,416
with ocean acidification.

622
01:21:56,458 --> 01:21:59,958
The problem in developing stony corals or

623
01:21:59,958 --> 01:22:01,875
any kind of coral that uses calcium and

624
01:22:01,875 --> 01:22:03,916
so forth. And I don't want to go into the

625
01:22:03,916 --> 01:22:05,208
details of that because we've covered it

626
01:22:05,208 --> 01:22:07,166
on other podcasts and we want to focus on

627
01:22:07,166 --> 01:22:08,958
the on the microplastics here.

628
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,000
It, but when you when you start to look

629
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:13,250
at you mentioned in the field, it's very

630
01:22:13,250 --> 01:22:15,250
difficult to study just the direct impact

631
01:22:15,250 --> 01:22:17,666
of microplastics on these corals because

632
01:22:17,666 --> 01:22:19,416
we have all these other things that are

633
01:22:19,416 --> 01:22:21,416
affecting it at the same time.

634
01:22:22,458 --> 01:22:24,750
Is it possible I know for some people,

635
01:22:25,291 --> 01:22:28,291
some researchers where they actually take

636
01:22:28,291 --> 01:22:31,708
corals and grow them in situ or not in

637
01:22:31,708 --> 01:22:35,333
situ, but in a lab where they can

638
01:22:35,333 --> 01:22:38,291
manipulate the environment a little

639
01:22:38,291 --> 01:22:42,166
better to tease out some of the some of

640
01:22:42,166 --> 01:22:42,416
those cumulative effects.

641
01:22:42,458 --> 01:22:46,333
So in essence, like control light control

642
01:22:46,333 --> 01:22:48,958
heat and then expose them to

643
01:22:48,958 --> 01:22:52,291
microplastics. Has that been done so far

644
01:22:52,291 --> 01:22:53,791
before or have you done that or anybody

645
01:22:53,791 --> 01:22:56,000
else in that? Yes. Yes. So there are

646
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,416
several studies where people have done

647
01:22:58,416 --> 01:23:00,416
laboratory experiments like you were

648
01:23:00,416 --> 01:23:04,541
describing to assess the impacts and or

649
01:23:04,541 --> 01:23:06,291
where they have, you know, they have sort

650
01:23:06,291 --> 01:23:06,416
of varied questions.

651
01:23:06,458 --> 01:23:10,666
Sometimes the simple question of do will

652
01:23:10,666 --> 01:23:16,166
corals consume microplastics or not. And

653
01:23:16,166 --> 01:23:18,583
it and there's kind of a mixed bag of

654
01:23:18,583 --> 01:23:21,125
results, I think in terms of what's out

655
01:23:21,125 --> 01:23:23,666
there. So depending on the species,

656
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:25,291
depending on the sort of the details of

657
01:23:25,291 --> 01:23:29,416
the study, you can find that corals.

658
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:32,791
Corals, yes, will eat microplastics and

659
01:23:32,791 --> 01:23:36,041
consume them. They tend to be more likely

660
01:23:36,041 --> 01:23:39,041
to do so if the microplastics have a

661
01:23:39,041 --> 01:23:41,416
biofilm on them. So, you know, like if

662
01:23:41,416 --> 01:23:44,125
you leave something with water in water,

663
01:23:44,583 --> 01:23:46,291
it no matter what, even if the water

664
01:23:46,291 --> 01:23:48,958
looks crystal clear and clean, there's

665
01:23:48,958 --> 01:23:50,541
bacteria in there that will end up

666
01:23:50,541 --> 01:23:53,375
causing like a sort of a like a slimy

667
01:23:53,375 --> 01:23:55,125
film on the surface of things.

668
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:55,958
Yeah.

669
01:23:56,458 --> 01:23:59,541
And so that's that's a biofilm is there's

670
01:23:59,541 --> 01:24:00,916
where there's a sort of like microbial

671
01:24:00,916 --> 01:24:02,833
activity that coats the surface of

672
01:24:02,833 --> 01:24:07,416
something. And that we think the sort of

673
01:24:07,416 --> 01:24:09,166
the the thought behind that is that that

674
01:24:09,166 --> 01:24:11,000
ends up being like a mimicry

675
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:13,375
to something that would be food.

676
01:24:14,458 --> 01:24:18,375
And so the corals might just be pulled

677
01:24:18,375 --> 01:24:21,000
and other organisms to might be pulled

678
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:22,958
into thinking that this sort of seems

679
01:24:22,958 --> 01:24:24,041
like it is something

680
01:24:24,041 --> 01:24:26,583
edible. And so they ingest it.

681
01:24:27,208 --> 01:24:28,666
In the case of corals. The other thing

682
01:24:28,666 --> 01:24:30,916
that's kind of interesting is they have

683
01:24:30,916 --> 01:24:33,000
also been known to spit out

684
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:34,833
microplastics so they ingest.

685
01:24:36,458 --> 01:24:38,833
And so it's hard to know how much

686
01:24:38,833 --> 01:24:41,958
actually stays in so corals polyps are

687
01:24:41,958 --> 01:24:44,791
just a really simple sack. Yes, they have

688
01:24:44,791 --> 01:24:48,208
just one opening, unlike humans and other

689
01:24:48,208 --> 01:24:49,541
animals, we have to

690
01:24:49,541 --> 01:24:51,416
opening, they just have one.

691
01:24:52,416 --> 01:24:56,583
And so, you know, food and waste comes

692
01:24:56,583 --> 01:24:58,458
goes in and out of the same opening.

693
01:24:59,458 --> 01:25:02,000
And so they also don't really have they

694
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,833
have a stomach, but it's not really the

695
01:25:03,833 --> 01:25:06,083
same kind of thing that we have. And so

696
01:25:06,083 --> 01:25:09,083
they don't it's unclear how much

697
01:25:09,083 --> 01:25:11,291
digestion is is going on or whether

698
01:25:11,291 --> 01:25:13,375
they're the same issues that we see with

699
01:25:13,375 --> 01:25:15,250
birds or fish when it

700
01:25:15,250 --> 01:25:17,083
comes to ingestion of plastics.

701
01:25:19,458 --> 01:25:22,000
So anyhow, they there's there is this

702
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,375
sort of like complicated story I think of

703
01:25:24,375 --> 01:25:27,375
they definitely do consume. They seem to

704
01:25:27,375 --> 01:25:28,666
consume more when

705
01:25:28,666 --> 01:25:30,041
they're covered with biofilm.

706
01:25:53,333 --> 01:25:55,416
And so they are able to also e jest.

707
01:25:55,458 --> 01:25:59,291
They are able to sort of determine. So,

708
01:25:59,500 --> 01:26:03,500
that's, that's, that's, that's out for my

709
01:26:03,500 --> 01:26:05,500
understanding of what we kind of know so

710
01:26:05,500 --> 01:26:09,083
far. Yeah, it's such a broad kind of

711
01:26:09,083 --> 01:26:10,666
subject mattering I think a lot of people

712
01:26:10,666 --> 01:26:11,833
think corals they don't think

713
01:26:11,833 --> 01:26:12,958
of how many different species

714
01:26:13,458 --> 01:26:15,041
of corals there are around the world

715
01:26:15,041 --> 01:26:16,500
right there's a lot of different ones

716
01:26:16,500 --> 01:26:18,333
they all react differently to heat to

717
01:26:18,333 --> 01:26:21,833
temperature to to ocean acidification and

718
01:26:21,833 --> 01:26:23,791
I'm sure they all, you know, will will be

719
01:26:23,791 --> 01:26:25,500
different when it comes to microplastics

720
01:26:25,500 --> 01:26:27,416
and their exposure to

721
01:26:27,416 --> 01:26:28,833
microplastics just like nutrients

722
01:26:29,458 --> 01:26:31,458
and so forth. So it becomes a difficult

723
01:26:31,458 --> 01:26:35,500
thing to, you know, to study from the

724
01:26:35,500 --> 01:26:37,666
study where you did in the river system

725
01:26:37,666 --> 01:26:41,041
where you looked at sort of how debris

726
01:26:41,041 --> 01:26:43,375
would affect the entire ecosystem.

727
01:26:43,875 --> 01:26:45,375
Was that the approach you took it when

728
01:26:45,375 --> 01:26:46,958
you first started looking at corals is

729
01:26:46,958 --> 01:26:49,916
just how does it affect a coral reef

730
01:26:49,916 --> 01:26:52,041
instead of an individual coral, or did

731
01:26:52,041 --> 01:26:54,500
you go to the individual first.

732
01:26:55,458 --> 01:26:57,625
So for corals we typically the way that

733
01:26:57,625 --> 01:26:59,583
I've been studying it as we focus on

734
01:26:59,583 --> 01:27:03,958
individual species. Okay, and not as much

735
01:27:03,958 --> 01:27:07,666
on the overall system although we try to

736
01:27:07,666 --> 01:27:08,958
draw conclusions that can

737
01:27:08,958 --> 01:27:10,625
apply to the overall system.

738
01:27:11,458 --> 01:27:14,833
And so, in, in part, I think some of that

739
01:27:14,833 --> 01:27:16,458
is because the corals that I've been

740
01:27:16,458 --> 01:27:18,125
sitting mostly are in Hawaii.

741
01:27:19,708 --> 01:27:21,833
And there are fewer species that are that

742
01:27:21,833 --> 01:27:24,458
are there, especially in a particular bay

743
01:27:24,458 --> 01:27:28,583
that we work in, where there's much of

744
01:27:28,583 --> 01:27:31,500
the bay is dominated by two, two very

745
01:27:31,500 --> 01:27:33,583
distinct species and so a lot of the work

746
01:27:33,583 --> 01:27:34,666
that I've done has been

747
01:27:34,666 --> 01:27:36,625
focused on sort of a comparative

748
01:27:37,458 --> 01:27:44,958
We tend to, at least for me I tend to

749
01:27:44,958 --> 01:27:47,458
focus on on the coral and I think that's

750
01:27:47,458 --> 01:27:50,000
in part just because I would consider

751
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:51,875
myself to be more of a physiologist, like

752
01:27:51,875 --> 01:27:53,333
sort of trying to understand how the

753
01:27:53,333 --> 01:27:58,750
underlying biology is working in this.

754
01:27:59,750 --> 01:28:00,500
That makes sense, that

755
01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:01,166
makes complete sense.

756
01:28:01,541 --> 01:28:03,250
Now at this point of the podcast,

757
01:28:03,875 --> 01:28:06,208
people are listening and they hear, okay,

758
01:28:06,500 --> 01:28:07,958
so you're at Villanova University,

759
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:10,500
fantastic university, right?

760
01:28:10,500 --> 01:28:11,500
One of the best in the country.

761
01:28:12,791 --> 01:28:14,583
You do field work in Hawaii.

762
01:28:14,958 --> 01:28:15,416
So the first thing

763
01:28:15,416 --> 01:28:16,333
people are gonna ask me is,

764
01:28:16,375 --> 01:28:18,833
how do I work with Dr. Rodriguez

765
01:28:19,166 --> 01:28:20,541
so that I can live in Philadelphia

766
01:28:20,833 --> 01:28:21,708
and then I can go to

767
01:28:21,708 --> 01:28:24,375
Hawaii once, maybe twice a year?

768
01:28:25,125 --> 01:28:26,083
Do you get a lot of

769
01:28:26,083 --> 01:28:27,750
students who are also interested?

770
01:28:27,750 --> 01:28:29,000
Because coral reef is, you know, when you

771
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:29,750
first get into marine

772
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:30,625
biology, especially students,

773
01:28:30,625 --> 01:28:32,333
they want to learn about, you know, the

774
01:28:32,333 --> 01:28:34,583
top subjects are marine mammals, sharks,

775
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:36,000
and then you have coral reefs.

776
01:28:36,708 --> 01:28:38,125
Do you get a lot of people who come and

777
01:28:38,125 --> 01:28:39,958
be like, hey, look, I've seen your work.

778
01:28:40,208 --> 01:28:42,000
I like what you do. I like where you go.

779
01:28:58,166 --> 01:29:01,000
To try to kind of ensure that the people

780
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:04,458
who do work in the field are ones who are

781
01:29:04,458 --> 01:29:06,666
able to deal with the less glamorous

782
01:29:06,666 --> 01:29:08,541
aspects of, you know,

783
01:29:09,208 --> 01:29:12,541
your elbow deep in seawater on a regular

784
01:29:12,541 --> 01:29:14,666
basis in tanks and corals

785
01:29:14,666 --> 01:29:17,708
smell funny and long hours.

786
01:29:19,083 --> 01:29:21,083
We study coral reproduction and that

787
01:29:21,083 --> 01:29:22,583
happens at times

788
01:29:22,583 --> 01:29:24,250
during happy hour typically.

789
01:29:24,583 --> 01:29:27,833
So, you know, we gotta watch corals

790
01:29:27,833 --> 01:29:29,750
reproduce instead of going to happy hour.

791
01:29:30,666 --> 01:29:31,708
So things like that. We

792
01:29:31,708 --> 01:29:33,500
yeah, it's not as glamorous.

793
01:29:33,708 --> 01:29:36,083
There's, you know, it's while it's

794
01:29:36,083 --> 01:29:37,333
amazing and it's beautiful.

795
01:29:37,333 --> 01:29:39,833
It's a really wonderful experience and I

796
01:29:39,833 --> 01:29:42,208
feel very privileged to have had them.

797
01:29:43,250 --> 01:29:43,833
You know, it's also

798
01:29:43,833 --> 01:29:45,500
you're working in the hot sun.

799
01:29:46,083 --> 01:29:46,291
It's hard work.

800
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:48,125
It's a lot of hard work.

801
01:29:48,125 --> 01:29:49,666
It's it can be very physical.

802
01:29:49,958 --> 01:29:53,666
This just swimming alone, you know, and

803
01:29:53,666 --> 01:29:57,125
you work while you're swimming is a lot.

804
01:29:58,208 --> 01:30:00,166
But yeah, we do. We definitely we

805
01:30:00,166 --> 01:30:02,916
definitely don't suffer from lack of

806
01:30:02,916 --> 01:30:05,250
volunteers for working in Hawaii or

807
01:30:05,250 --> 01:30:06,166
Puerto Rico, which is

808
01:30:06,166 --> 01:30:08,208
another, which is another area.

809
01:30:08,833 --> 01:30:10,750
Yeah, not too bad in places, right?

810
01:30:12,583 --> 01:30:14,541
Now, but like, you know, talking about

811
01:30:14,541 --> 01:30:17,291
working in in in these places like in the

812
01:30:17,291 --> 01:30:20,000
ocean, if you're you know, a lot of times

813
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,250
you can find corals in shallow areas.

814
01:30:22,958 --> 01:30:26,250
But also, you know, I just went to you

815
01:30:26,250 --> 01:30:27,750
know, to Hawaii, like I mentioned, I just

816
01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:31,041
got back and I saw that there were, you

817
01:30:31,041 --> 01:30:33,125
know, hazards in the ocean in terms of

818
01:30:33,125 --> 01:30:35,375
currents and riptides and, you know,

819
01:30:35,750 --> 01:30:38,000
being along the shore in those areas can

820
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:40,333
be quite dangerous in a way.

821
01:30:40,375 --> 01:30:42,583
You know, the big the big saying there is

822
01:30:42,583 --> 01:30:44,208
don't turn your back ever on the ocean

823
01:30:44,208 --> 01:30:46,208
because you never know what it's going to

824
01:30:46,208 --> 01:30:48,958
do the bay that you believe you said

825
01:30:48,958 --> 01:30:49,583
there's one bay that

826
01:30:49,583 --> 01:30:50,583
you that you worked in.

827
01:30:50,583 --> 01:30:53,291
Yes. Where is it? And then and then and

828
01:30:53,291 --> 01:30:56,833
how does it how is that in terms of safe

829
01:30:56,833 --> 01:30:59,541
and safety is in that area?

830
01:31:00,291 --> 01:31:04,666
Sure. So we work primarily off of the

831
01:31:04,666 --> 01:31:07,125
coast of Oahu, which is the main island

832
01:31:07,125 --> 01:31:08,666
of Hawaii where where

833
01:31:08,666 --> 01:31:09,875
Honolulu is located.

834
01:31:10,291 --> 01:31:11,791
Yeah, but on the sort of the opposite

835
01:31:11,791 --> 01:31:13,833
side of the mountains from Honolulu,

836
01:31:14,333 --> 01:31:17,500
there's a marine institute there called

837
01:31:17,500 --> 01:31:19,125
the Hawaii Institute of Marine Biology.

838
01:31:20,166 --> 01:31:21,833
And when I was a graduate student to my

839
01:31:21,833 --> 01:31:23,958
PhD and then also since then as a faculty

840
01:31:23,958 --> 01:31:26,166
member of the one over, we've been

841
01:31:26,166 --> 01:31:27,666
working there on and off.

842
01:31:28,541 --> 01:31:32,416
It's located in Kaneohe Bay, the largest

843
01:31:32,416 --> 01:31:34,875
base. There is not too far from Lani Kai

844
01:31:34,875 --> 01:31:36,125
that you were talking about earlier.

845
01:31:36,458 --> 01:31:40,458
Yeah, it's a very sheltered bay.

846
01:31:41,958 --> 01:31:46,541
The the Marine Institute is is itself on

847
01:31:46,541 --> 01:31:50,458
a small island and that island is

848
01:31:50,458 --> 01:31:52,375
completely surrounded by fringing reefs.

849
01:31:52,666 --> 01:31:55,958
So you don't you barely need to get your

850
01:31:55,958 --> 01:31:58,958
toes wet in order to be able to see the

851
01:31:58,958 --> 01:32:01,000
corals and you and even then you you

852
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:02,083
could stay fairly dry

853
01:32:02,083 --> 01:32:03,958
and see them from land.

854
01:32:04,458 --> 01:32:06,500
So everything is fairly close. It's one

855
01:32:06,500 --> 01:32:08,708
of the reasons why there's just so much

856
01:32:08,708 --> 01:32:09,666
research that is

857
01:32:09,666 --> 01:32:11,083
actually done at that location.

858
01:32:11,375 --> 01:32:13,833
It's it's it's relatively easy to work

859
01:32:13,833 --> 01:32:16,791
with. And then throughout that day, there

860
01:32:16,791 --> 01:32:19,541
are also patch reefs that are kind of

861
01:32:19,541 --> 01:32:20,541
distributed throughout

862
01:32:20,541 --> 01:32:21,625
the inner part of the day.

863
01:32:22,666 --> 01:32:26,333
And then as you get further out into the

864
01:32:26,333 --> 01:32:28,666
into like just sort of at the mouth of

865
01:32:28,666 --> 01:32:30,458
the bay, things can sometimes

866
01:32:30,458 --> 01:32:32,708
be a little bit more choppy.

867
01:32:34,625 --> 01:32:37,583
But you know that usually those are more

868
01:32:37,583 --> 01:32:39,708
experienced people will go right that

869
01:32:39,708 --> 01:32:41,875
work out there. So yeah, so yeah, it's a

870
01:32:41,875 --> 01:32:42,625
it's a nice it's a nice place.

871
01:32:42,666 --> 01:32:45,416
It has it. Yeah, they have really great

872
01:32:45,416 --> 01:32:49,958
facilities in terms of on on the island

873
01:32:49,958 --> 01:32:52,500
itself to be able to do experiments. And

874
01:32:52,500 --> 01:32:55,833
so we've done before tank experiments

875
01:32:55,833 --> 01:32:57,916
where we can bring corals into tanks and

876
01:32:57,916 --> 01:32:59,125
seawater and do some

877
01:32:59,125 --> 01:33:00,666
manipulations and things like that.

878
01:33:00,875 --> 01:33:02,000
So there's there's a lot of different

879
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:04,583
things. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Yeah,

880
01:33:04,583 --> 01:33:06,708
that's amazing. You mentioned earlier,

881
01:33:06,708 --> 01:33:09,958
you know, looking at where corals are

882
01:33:09,958 --> 01:33:11,125
situated was important.

883
01:33:11,666 --> 01:33:13,791
You know, near the mouths of river

884
01:33:13,791 --> 01:33:17,041
rivers, but not all corals are near the

885
01:33:17,041 --> 01:33:19,791
mouth of mouths of rivers. We know rivers

886
01:33:19,791 --> 01:33:23,000
can be a spot where debris comes out and

887
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:24,625
micro plastics are created through that.

888
01:33:24,666 --> 01:33:28,458
So have you found a difference in terms

889
01:33:28,458 --> 01:33:31,708
of corals that are closer to rivers being

890
01:33:31,708 --> 01:33:33,916
exposed to marine debris compared to

891
01:33:33,916 --> 01:33:37,041
coral reefs that are further away from

892
01:33:37,041 --> 01:33:39,791
those rivers? Is there a significant

893
01:33:39,791 --> 01:33:42,250
difference in those types of exposures?

894
01:33:43,666 --> 01:33:45,541
Yeah, that's a really great question. No,

895
01:33:45,541 --> 01:33:48,250
it kind of depends. So we haven't we've

896
01:33:48,250 --> 01:33:52,083
seen more sediment impacts than direct

897
01:33:52,083 --> 01:33:54,875
debris impacts in those but there'd be

898
01:33:54,875 --> 01:33:56,500
some parallels is my guess.

899
01:33:57,375 --> 01:33:59,791
So the corals that are closest to the

900
01:33:59,791 --> 01:34:03,750
mouths of rivers tend to be heavily

901
01:34:03,750 --> 01:34:06,208
impacted by sediments, but I've also seen

902
01:34:06,208 --> 01:34:08,333
in some locations. So in Puerto Rico,

903
01:34:08,333 --> 01:34:10,666
where we work, some of the healthiest

904
01:34:10,666 --> 01:34:12,625
corals that I've seen in that region.

905
01:34:12,666 --> 01:34:16,791
Are right at the mouth of where the there

906
01:34:16,791 --> 01:34:18,208
that they're so well

907
01:34:18,208 --> 01:34:20,458
adapted to living there.

908
01:34:21,958 --> 01:34:24,500
You know, this this was a place where I

909
01:34:24,500 --> 01:34:27,125
had to hold hands with my dive buddy in

910
01:34:27,125 --> 01:34:29,375
order to be able to not lose them because

911
01:34:29,375 --> 01:34:32,291
I couldn't see them. I could even barely

912
01:34:32,291 --> 01:34:35,416
see their bubbles from scuba diving.

913
01:34:36,166 --> 01:34:38,625
That's kind of insane. Yeah, that was it

914
01:34:38,625 --> 01:34:42,708
was like just pea soup plus there. And

915
01:34:42,708 --> 01:34:44,750
yet the corals that we just like and you

916
01:34:44,750 --> 01:34:46,458
know you don't because it's so just what

917
01:34:46,458 --> 01:34:48,416
the visibility is so bad you kind of it's

918
01:34:48,416 --> 01:34:50,125
sort of like this otherworldly kind of

919
01:34:50,125 --> 01:34:52,125
experience where you kind of swim up

920
01:34:52,125 --> 01:34:54,166
until they're right in front of your face

921
01:34:54,166 --> 01:34:56,625
you realize, oh, wait, this is a coral.

922
01:34:56,875 --> 01:34:57,083
Right.

923
01:34:57,666 --> 01:34:59,416
And I think that's what I was, we're so

924
01:34:59,416 --> 01:35:01,250
healthy and what I would describe as a

925
01:35:01,250 --> 01:35:04,166
happy for its polyps were all extended.

926
01:35:05,500 --> 01:35:07,583
It was happily feeding so there can be

927
01:35:07,583 --> 01:35:11,125
some definitely some local adaptations

928
01:35:11,125 --> 01:35:12,416
that are probably happening.

929
01:35:15,666 --> 01:35:17,500
And it's funny, we don't see as much

930
01:35:17,500 --> 01:35:20,500
debris in those kinds of areas. I'm sure

931
01:35:20,500 --> 01:35:23,958
it's there at the micro level it's just

932
01:35:23,958 --> 01:35:26,708
very difficult to measure and quantify.

933
01:35:29,666 --> 01:35:32,333
But there's, you know, we tend to see

934
01:35:32,333 --> 01:35:37,291
most things are will be on a reef in

935
01:35:37,291 --> 01:35:40,791
terms of debris, where you have kind of

936
01:35:40,791 --> 01:35:43,583
protrusions on the reef things that, you

937
01:35:43,583 --> 01:35:45,500
know, that debris can get

938
01:35:45,500 --> 01:35:47,750
wrapped around or trapped on.

939
01:35:49,666 --> 01:35:52,333
But I think that a lot of the sort of

940
01:35:52,333 --> 01:35:54,833
when the reef is a little bit more smooth

941
01:35:54,833 --> 01:35:58,833
than the debris tends not to get caught,

942
01:35:59,458 --> 01:36:01,875
at least the bigger pieces. And so we

943
01:36:01,875 --> 01:36:03,500
typically don't see it all

944
01:36:03,500 --> 01:36:04,875
that much it kind of varies.

945
01:36:05,833 --> 01:36:07,500
So when you say smooth, are you talking

946
01:36:07,500 --> 01:36:09,958
about like, like flat type of corals?

947
01:36:09,958 --> 01:36:12,083
Exactly. Almost like plate corals. Yeah.

948
01:36:12,333 --> 01:36:14,708
So more of like, or even sort of rounded

949
01:36:14,708 --> 01:36:16,416
mounding corals. Right.

950
01:36:16,666 --> 01:36:20,250
So where there's less kind of crevices or

951
01:36:20,250 --> 01:36:22,750
less upper where where you have more

952
01:36:22,750 --> 01:36:26,416
branching corals and yes, or other

953
01:36:26,416 --> 01:36:29,875
branching structures or where it does

954
01:36:29,875 --> 01:36:33,958
seem like you're more debris is piling up

955
01:36:33,958 --> 01:36:36,291
and stays and seems there.

956
01:36:37,666 --> 01:36:39,083
That's interesting. That's that's really

957
01:36:39,083 --> 01:36:40,875
yeah I think that's cool. That's cool to

958
01:36:40,875 --> 01:36:42,916
see those those types of differences

959
01:36:42,916 --> 01:36:44,416
again looking at the different species

960
01:36:44,416 --> 01:36:46,541
and diversity of the shapes of the corals

961
01:36:46,541 --> 01:36:49,625
in certain in terms of how it kind of

962
01:36:49,625 --> 01:36:51,625
intersects with all these different

963
01:36:51,625 --> 01:36:55,166
pathways that they get exposed. Right.

964
01:36:55,666 --> 01:36:58,250
So you see parallels in other ecosystems

965
01:36:58,250 --> 01:37:01,458
as well. So in mangroves, which are

966
01:37:01,458 --> 01:37:03,791
usually adjacent to these coral reef

967
01:37:03,791 --> 01:37:05,291
ecosystems and our trees that are going

968
01:37:05,291 --> 01:37:06,791
to grow in salt water.

969
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:10,750
They, their roots tend to be the places

970
01:37:10,750 --> 01:37:14,083
that get, you know, plastic bags or rope

971
01:37:14,083 --> 01:37:16,166
or things like that twined around them

972
01:37:16,166 --> 01:37:18,625
and you see that that becomes like sort

973
01:37:18,625 --> 01:37:20,708
of an obvious feature sometimes.

974
01:37:22,916 --> 01:37:25,750
But that in in other areas that are maybe

975
01:37:25,750 --> 01:37:28,291
more flushed where the water is able to,

976
01:37:28,291 --> 01:37:30,416
yes, bring things in, but then also pull

977
01:37:30,416 --> 01:37:34,000
stuff out. It may not, you know, water

978
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:36,000
bottles or things like that might not

979
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:39,916
stick around all that long in the system.

980
01:37:40,458 --> 01:37:41,875
Because it wouldn't necessarily stick or

981
01:37:41,875 --> 01:37:44,000
connect to it. Exactly. Exactly. It's not

982
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:45,625
getting trapped in the same way.

983
01:37:45,666 --> 01:37:48,375
So there's so there's the variety of the

984
01:37:48,375 --> 01:37:49,875
way the ecosystem looks, but then there's

985
01:37:49,875 --> 01:37:53,291
also the variety of the trash that we

986
01:37:53,291 --> 01:37:55,083
that we produce and how

987
01:37:55,083 --> 01:37:57,583
that how that plays into it.

988
01:37:58,041 --> 01:37:59,166
Yeah. And even though seeing a water

989
01:37:59,166 --> 01:38:01,500
bottle is not good in the ocean, it may

990
01:38:01,500 --> 01:38:03,833
not affect the corals in that situation.

991
01:38:04,083 --> 01:38:06,333
Exactly. It may not have the same kind of

992
01:38:06,333 --> 01:38:10,375
abrasive or shading impacts that that

993
01:38:10,375 --> 01:38:12,625
rope or plastic bags can have.

994
01:38:12,666 --> 01:38:15,250
Is there, you know, with all these

995
01:38:15,250 --> 01:38:17,625
different adaptations, different shapes

996
01:38:17,625 --> 01:38:19,750
and different features of a coral and

997
01:38:19,750 --> 01:38:21,833
even where they're where they grow and

998
01:38:21,833 --> 01:38:23,416
where they they're located.

999
01:38:24,958 --> 01:38:27,500
Is there a common method that you can

1000
01:38:27,500 --> 01:38:30,791
evaluate the health of the coral in terms

1001
01:38:30,791 --> 01:38:34,458
of, you know, being exposed to

1002
01:38:34,458 --> 01:38:36,166
microplastics, you know, because a lot of

1003
01:38:36,166 --> 01:38:37,125
times when we hear about like

1004
01:38:37,125 --> 01:38:39,375
microplastics in marine mammals, we see

1005
01:38:39,375 --> 01:38:40,625
it in their tissue and the chemicals.

1006
01:38:40,666 --> 01:38:42,875
And there's an increase in the chemicals

1007
01:38:42,875 --> 01:38:44,791
from those microplastics in their tissue.

1008
01:38:45,291 --> 01:38:46,916
So they obviously obviously absorb it

1009
01:38:46,916 --> 01:38:49,541
into their system. Doesn't sound like

1010
01:38:49,541 --> 01:38:51,541
this is happening with corals or am I

1011
01:38:51,541 --> 01:38:52,291
wrong here? We just

1012
01:38:52,291 --> 01:38:53,458
not gotten to that part.

1013
01:38:54,208 --> 01:38:56,833
I think I don't know that we know yet.

1014
01:38:56,833 --> 01:39:00,166
Okay. How much chemically there's being

1015
01:39:00,166 --> 01:39:02,291
an impact there there's an impact or not.

1016
01:39:03,458 --> 01:39:04,500
So yeah, I'm not sure that

1017
01:39:04,500 --> 01:39:06,083
we're there yet with corals.

1018
01:39:07,833 --> 01:39:09,666
One of the things one of the features

1019
01:39:09,666 --> 01:39:12,250
that we typically that has typically well

1020
01:39:12,250 --> 01:39:13,500
there's two things that we typically

1021
01:39:13,500 --> 01:39:14,625
study. One is sort of their

1022
01:39:14,625 --> 01:39:16,875
photosynthetic potential. So like how

1023
01:39:16,875 --> 01:39:19,625
rarely do we remember that corals are

1024
01:39:19,625 --> 01:39:22,583
symbiotic between an allergy and

1025
01:39:22,583 --> 01:39:26,041
endosymbic symbiotic algae and an animal.

1026
01:39:26,958 --> 01:39:29,541
And then how good the photosynthesis is

1027
01:39:29,541 --> 01:39:32,583
is one parameter that we tend to look at

1028
01:39:32,583 --> 01:39:34,875
when we're looking at that health of the

1029
01:39:34,875 --> 01:39:37,208
overall coral. And then another parameter

1030
01:39:37,208 --> 01:39:38,666
that we tend to look at are sort of the

1031
01:39:38,666 --> 01:39:42,333
energy reserves, like how much fats or

1032
01:39:42,333 --> 01:39:45,041
carbohydrates or proteins are being built

1033
01:39:45,041 --> 01:39:48,708
up in in the animal portion of that.

1034
01:39:49,666 --> 01:39:53,708
And so possibly the plastics could impact

1035
01:39:53,708 --> 01:39:58,291
both of those areas depending on how

1036
01:39:58,291 --> 01:40:00,458
significant it is like you know ingestion

1037
01:40:00,458 --> 01:40:04,333
of microplastics could cause sort of

1038
01:40:04,333 --> 01:40:06,500
hypothesized to maybe cause self shading

1039
01:40:06,500 --> 01:40:09,708
or shading to happen and maybe algae

1040
01:40:09,708 --> 01:40:11,791
can't photosynthesize and then if you

1041
01:40:11,791 --> 01:40:12,916
can't photosynthesize then

1042
01:40:12,916 --> 01:40:14,000
you're not taking in energy.

1043
01:40:14,666 --> 01:40:15,541
So there could be these

1044
01:40:15,541 --> 01:40:17,000
kind of cascading effects.

1045
01:40:18,958 --> 01:40:20,500
Some of the species of one of the species

1046
01:40:20,500 --> 01:40:22,833
that I've studied in the past in Hawaii

1047
01:40:22,833 --> 01:40:25,875
is a really big feeder.

1048
01:40:26,750 --> 01:40:29,583
So one of the ways that it is able to

1049
01:40:29,583 --> 01:40:33,041
survive coral bleaching is that it tends

1050
01:40:33,041 --> 01:40:35,291
to feed on plankton more.

1051
01:40:36,916 --> 01:40:39,541
And so that could also be another impact

1052
01:40:39,541 --> 01:40:42,291
if you're if your little gut is full of

1053
01:40:42,291 --> 01:40:44,625
plastics, you know, you won't be able to

1054
01:40:44,625 --> 01:40:46,875
maybe feed as much or digest

1055
01:40:46,875 --> 01:40:49,083
what you do feed on plankton.

1056
01:40:49,666 --> 01:40:51,333
And so there could be these other things.

1057
01:40:51,541 --> 01:40:54,125
But at least as far as I know, I haven't

1058
01:40:54,125 --> 01:40:58,583
seen studies yet that have taken it to

1059
01:40:58,583 --> 01:41:00,291
that level that sort of physiological

1060
01:41:00,291 --> 01:41:03,916
level with microplastics and corals.

1061
01:41:07,666 --> 01:41:10,208
And so that's really cool. Like to see it

1062
01:41:10,208 --> 01:41:11,541
feels like we're just scratching the

1063
01:41:11,541 --> 01:41:14,083
surface, no pun intended in terms of what

1064
01:41:14,083 --> 01:41:16,750
what it could do and really bringing a

1065
01:41:16,750 --> 01:41:19,166
light into again no pun intended in terms

1066
01:41:19,166 --> 01:41:21,833
of how this like the physical aspect of

1067
01:41:21,833 --> 01:41:23,625
trash being on a reef

1068
01:41:23,625 --> 01:41:24,875
like a plastic bag being

1069
01:41:25,666 --> 01:41:28,041
used for is amazing. I was I was walking

1070
01:41:28,041 --> 01:41:31,166
in the marina where our hotel was and

1071
01:41:31,166 --> 01:41:33,000
there were the corners of the marina

1072
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:36,333
where you just see the devastation of a

1073
01:41:36,333 --> 01:41:38,916
lot of the trash that accumulates within

1074
01:41:38,916 --> 01:41:41,791
a marina, whether that's from the boaters

1075
01:41:41,791 --> 01:41:44,166
themselves or just a way that this is

1076
01:41:44,166 --> 01:41:45,625
where the currents led them to.

1077
01:41:45,666 --> 01:41:47,375
And then this is and this is where it is.

1078
01:41:47,375 --> 01:41:49,458
But there were wasn't just like plastic

1079
01:41:49,458 --> 01:41:50,708
grocery bags. There were some like

1080
01:41:50,708 --> 01:41:53,083
industrial bags and there was like a lot

1081
01:41:53,083 --> 01:41:55,583
of debris that you would not expect oil

1082
01:41:55,583 --> 01:41:57,166
caps and things like that.

1083
01:41:57,916 --> 01:41:59,791
And so it was quite devastating to see

1084
01:41:59,791 --> 01:42:03,125
that in you know what I expected like

1085
01:42:03,125 --> 01:42:05,500
Hawaii to be pristine and and so forth. I

1086
01:42:05,500 --> 01:42:06,791
think it's just you know you falling for

1087
01:42:06,791 --> 01:42:09,666
that dream of this these Hawaiian waters

1088
01:42:09,666 --> 01:42:11,333
being so amazing but they they fall

1089
01:42:11,333 --> 01:42:13,875
victim to a lot of pollution, whether

1090
01:42:13,875 --> 01:42:16,250
it's from the island itself or from

1091
01:42:16,250 --> 01:42:17,958
outside of the island.

1092
01:42:19,041 --> 01:42:23,291
And so when you do studies like this, you

1093
01:42:23,291 --> 01:42:25,458
obviously doing it to see the effect to

1094
01:42:25,458 --> 01:42:28,041
see how we can manage it better right in

1095
01:42:28,041 --> 01:42:31,666
the overall aspect of how can we lower

1096
01:42:31,666 --> 01:42:35,875
the effect of of of marine I guess marine

1097
01:42:35,875 --> 01:42:38,166
debris on coral reefs themselves,

1098
01:42:38,166 --> 01:42:40,708
especially from this physical aspect.

1099
01:42:42,666 --> 01:42:44,541
I know it's early on in the process, but

1100
01:42:44,541 --> 01:42:47,166
what have you come up with? What have you

1101
01:42:47,166 --> 01:42:50,000
seen or even talk to colleagues or even

1102
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:51,291
come up with yourself? We're just saying

1103
01:42:51,291 --> 01:42:54,041
like, how can we get rid of this problem?

1104
01:42:54,291 --> 01:42:56,041
Like, how can we stop it? Corvies tend to

1105
01:42:56,041 --> 01:42:57,125
be really close to shore.

1106
01:42:57,666 --> 01:42:58,125
And so I think that's one of the first

1107
01:42:58,125 --> 01:42:59,958
sort of one of the first types of

1108
01:42:59,958 --> 01:43:02,666
ecosystems that really feels the impact

1109
01:43:02,666 --> 01:43:06,708
of this debris. What can we do as a

1110
01:43:06,708 --> 01:43:10,166
society and and and just like to force

1111
01:43:10,166 --> 01:43:12,875
policies to get to stop this from

1112
01:43:12,875 --> 01:43:14,041
entering the water or

1113
01:43:14,041 --> 01:43:15,375
even affecting the corals?

1114
01:43:16,666 --> 01:43:23,416
And so I think that's one of the first types of ecosystems that really is

1115
01:43:23,416 --> 01:43:28,000
important to remember, and I think that's

1116
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:34,750
one of the first things that's important

1117
01:43:34,750 --> 01:43:39,416
to remember is that we can work on this.

1118
01:43:41,666 --> 01:43:43,291
And so when you get to your local lake or

1119
01:43:43,291 --> 01:43:45,875
river, that is eventually is getting to

1120
01:43:45,875 --> 01:43:48,208
the ocean. And so every piece of litter,

1121
01:43:48,791 --> 01:43:50,500
you know, that is in the city of

1122
01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:53,458
Philadelphia, which is where I live, will

1123
01:43:53,458 --> 01:43:56,166
eventually end up end up in the ocean.

1124
01:43:57,666 --> 01:43:58,791
And I think that I think that's important

1125
01:43:58,791 --> 01:44:01,291
for people to be aware of and remember

1126
01:44:01,291 --> 01:44:03,041
because I think when, especially if

1127
01:44:03,041 --> 01:44:04,916
you're a person who loves the ocean.

1128
01:44:16,666 --> 01:44:16,958
You know, you're a person who loves the

1129
01:44:16,958 --> 01:44:19,583
ocean as well. Or your town or your

1130
01:44:19,583 --> 01:44:22,791
neighborhood. Yeah. And kind of thinking

1131
01:44:22,791 --> 01:44:25,625
about those sort of local things that you

1132
01:44:25,625 --> 01:44:26,583
could do. I think sometimes

1133
01:44:26,583 --> 01:44:28,083
there's such a disconnect.

1134
01:44:31,666 --> 01:44:48,583
I think that's one thing that's really

1135
01:44:48,583 --> 01:44:52,208
important where we need to sort of do

1136
01:44:52,208 --> 01:44:56,791
better at litter and waste management on

1137
01:44:56,791 --> 01:44:58,708
all sorts of levels, even if

1138
01:44:58,708 --> 01:45:00,125
we're not a coastal community.

1139
01:45:00,666 --> 01:45:01,791
Although as you know, coastal

1140
01:45:01,791 --> 01:45:03,250
communities, I think, especially and

1141
01:45:03,250 --> 01:45:05,166
usually those are the places where people

1142
01:45:05,166 --> 01:45:06,833
are very conscious of

1143
01:45:06,833 --> 01:45:07,833
those kinds of things.

1144
01:45:09,958 --> 01:45:14,666
We also find that this debris travels

1145
01:45:14,666 --> 01:45:17,125
really long distances. So some of the

1146
01:45:17,125 --> 01:45:18,791
things that we found on beaches in Puerto

1147
01:45:18,791 --> 01:45:21,333
Rico, we are pretty sure have come from

1148
01:45:21,333 --> 01:45:23,666
the coast of Africa, because of some of

1149
01:45:23,666 --> 01:45:24,625
the writing on them.

1150
01:45:24,666 --> 01:45:27,208
We think we find some things from the

1151
01:45:27,208 --> 01:45:29,625
coast of Brazil, most likely, again,

1152
01:45:29,625 --> 01:45:31,166
because of the writing and the language.

1153
01:45:32,333 --> 01:45:34,916
In some cases, like the item that we're

1154
01:45:34,916 --> 01:45:36,791
pretty sure has come from a Brazilian

1155
01:45:36,791 --> 01:45:42,625
grocery store was printed in in 2015 and

1156
01:45:42,625 --> 01:45:44,708
we're finding it in 2021.

1157
01:45:45,750 --> 01:45:47,750
So, you know, so not only are they

1158
01:45:47,750 --> 01:45:49,250
traveling long distances, but these

1159
01:45:49,250 --> 01:45:51,166
things are in the environment for a

1160
01:45:51,166 --> 01:45:53,250
really long time. And so anything that we

1161
01:45:53,250 --> 01:45:56,750
can do to remove the item in the first

1162
01:45:56,750 --> 01:46:00,791
place properly dispose of it, maybe also

1163
01:46:00,791 --> 01:46:02,791
rethink what we purchase too.

1164
01:46:04,166 --> 01:46:07,041
And this is tough because, you know, as

1165
01:46:07,041 --> 01:46:09,291
as a society, especially if your

1166
01:46:09,291 --> 01:46:11,250
listeners are maybe mostly in North

1167
01:46:11,250 --> 01:46:14,791
America, you are going to have, we don't

1168
01:46:14,791 --> 01:46:16,958
have a lot of choice, it's really hard to

1169
01:46:16,958 --> 01:46:18,833
find like so I sometimes will spend a lot

1170
01:46:18,833 --> 01:46:21,583
of time in the grocery store where I try

1171
01:46:21,583 --> 01:46:24,250
to find the same product, but in glass,

1172
01:46:24,250 --> 01:46:25,625
instead of in plastic

1173
01:46:25,750 --> 01:46:28,708
or something like that, or, or can of

1174
01:46:28,708 --> 01:46:31,541
some sort. Exactly. Or, you know, switch

1175
01:46:31,541 --> 01:46:35,416
to something that is more paper or, you

1176
01:46:35,416 --> 01:46:37,083
know, instead of shampoo in a bottle.

1177
01:46:37,791 --> 01:46:39,458
What about shampoo in a bar

1178
01:46:39,458 --> 01:46:40,916
form which is now a thing.

1179
01:46:41,500 --> 01:46:41,708
Yeah.

1180
01:46:43,166 --> 01:46:45,708
So I think thinking about the small

1181
01:46:45,708 --> 01:46:48,166
things that we as individuals can really

1182
01:46:48,166 --> 01:46:52,083
do to to pick up the waste when we can

1183
01:46:52,083 --> 01:46:54,416
but also not to be producing it in the

1184
01:46:54,416 --> 01:46:55,791
first place, I think,

1185
01:46:55,791 --> 01:46:57,500
can be really beneficial.

1186
01:46:58,666 --> 01:47:00,791
And then there's also you know like then

1187
01:47:00,791 --> 01:47:03,166
I'd say sort of the next scale up in

1188
01:47:03,166 --> 01:47:06,875
terms of community action. We see really

1189
01:47:06,875 --> 01:47:09,000
big improvements with regular with

1190
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:11,166
regular cleanups. So one of the things

1191
01:47:11,166 --> 01:47:13,083
that we do in Puerto Rico.

1192
01:47:14,250 --> 01:47:16,375
We did them twice a year at first and

1193
01:47:16,375 --> 01:47:18,333
then the wonderful people that are there

1194
01:47:18,333 --> 01:47:20,958
are super excited by this and so they've

1195
01:47:20,958 --> 01:47:23,375
been doing them more regularly on a bi

1196
01:47:23,375 --> 01:47:25,291
monthly basis at two different beaches.

1197
01:47:26,625 --> 01:47:28,958
80% of the degree that we find at these

1198
01:47:28,958 --> 01:47:35,708
beaches is plastic 80% and so if you but

1199
01:47:35,708 --> 01:47:36,875
we also see that if you

1200
01:47:36,875 --> 01:47:38,416
do these regular cleanups.

1201
01:47:39,666 --> 01:47:42,250
You can significantly reduce the total

1202
01:47:42,250 --> 01:47:44,333
amount that you find. I mean it's crazy

1203
01:47:44,333 --> 01:47:46,333
to think about but you could go every two

1204
01:47:46,333 --> 01:47:49,083
months to the same spot and still trash,

1205
01:47:49,750 --> 01:47:51,708
even though you cleaned it up, you know,

1206
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:53,750
spotless two months ago.

1207
01:47:54,666 --> 01:47:57,291
And so, having that kind of regular

1208
01:47:57,291 --> 01:48:01,041
investment in people time and effort, I

1209
01:48:01,041 --> 01:48:03,041
think is also really important because

1210
01:48:03,041 --> 01:48:06,000
doing that builds really big awareness,

1211
01:48:06,500 --> 01:48:09,333
right, like start to really appreciate

1212
01:48:09,333 --> 01:48:12,375
and start to really think about well if I

1213
01:48:12,375 --> 01:48:13,208
don't want to spend my

1214
01:48:13,208 --> 01:48:14,791
Saturday morning doing this.

1215
01:48:15,708 --> 01:48:17,500
What are some other things that I can do

1216
01:48:17,500 --> 01:48:18,666
to prevent this from

1217
01:48:18,666 --> 01:48:20,041
happening in the first place.

1218
01:48:21,666 --> 01:48:26,833
We also work with a lot of local

1219
01:48:26,833 --> 01:48:29,875
restaurants in the area near the beaches

1220
01:48:29,875 --> 01:48:31,833
in Puerto Rico to try to encourage them

1221
01:48:31,833 --> 01:48:36,166
to reduce the packaging that they use to

1222
01:48:36,166 --> 01:48:38,750
distribute food and so that can also be

1223
01:48:38,750 --> 01:48:40,541
something you know, in terms of the

1224
01:48:40,541 --> 01:48:41,833
businesses that you support.

1225
01:48:43,791 --> 01:48:45,375
And so, you know, maybe your favorite

1226
01:48:45,375 --> 01:48:48,708
restaurant or or shop or whatever that is

1227
01:48:48,708 --> 01:48:51,000
by the beach, you could always encourage

1228
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:54,750
them to think about paper instead of

1229
01:48:54,750 --> 01:48:58,458
plastic or you know, or or dishware

1230
01:48:58,458 --> 01:49:01,291
instead of plastic, and those can all

1231
01:49:01,291 --> 01:49:03,666
have kind of long standing I think

1232
01:49:03,666 --> 01:49:05,541
benefits on that kind of scale.

1233
01:49:06,416 --> 01:49:06,625
Yeah.

1234
01:49:08,666 --> 01:49:10,083
I think that's all phenomenal things

1235
01:49:10,083 --> 01:49:12,125
because I really like just working

1236
01:49:12,125 --> 01:49:14,666
locally, you know, and it seems like a

1237
01:49:14,666 --> 01:49:17,000
lot of this community driven, not only

1238
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:18,208
individually but community like the

1239
01:49:18,208 --> 01:49:20,083
cleanups comes from a

1240
01:49:20,083 --> 01:49:21,750
community aspect but it comes from.

1241
01:49:23,666 --> 01:49:25,500
It comes from organizations like rare it

1242
01:49:25,500 --> 01:49:27,708
comes from a place of pride, you know,

1243
01:49:27,708 --> 01:49:30,250
like you clean up if you spend the time

1244
01:49:30,250 --> 01:49:32,791
as a community to clean up these beaches

1245
01:49:32,791 --> 01:49:36,250
or these waterways, whether you're in

1246
01:49:36,250 --> 01:49:38,166
Philadelphia you're in Burlington you're

1247
01:49:38,166 --> 01:49:39,208
in Hawaii you're in

1248
01:49:39,208 --> 01:49:41,333
Puerto Rico, you can you

1249
01:49:41,666 --> 01:49:45,000
see the difference. Over time, and you

1250
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:46,833
start to say hey we're this we actually

1251
01:49:46,833 --> 01:49:49,416
can make a difference locally we may not

1252
01:49:49,416 --> 01:49:50,666
be able to make it from a world

1253
01:49:50,666 --> 01:49:52,875
perspective but we can make it locally we

1254
01:49:52,875 --> 01:49:55,500
can keep our Bay, or, or

1255
01:49:55,500 --> 01:49:58,500
whatever clean in this particular

1256
01:49:58,666 --> 01:50:00,416
area, and then we take pride and we can

1257
01:50:00,416 --> 01:50:02,916
talk to people about that and put in and,

1258
01:50:02,916 --> 01:50:04,291
you know, going over what works what

1259
01:50:04,291 --> 01:50:06,500
doesn't successes and challenges to help

1260
01:50:06,500 --> 01:50:08,416
other communities do the same thing. I

1261
01:50:08,416 --> 01:50:10,625
love that aspect. I even love the aspect

1262
01:50:10,625 --> 01:50:12,750
again talking about local community,

1263
01:50:13,208 --> 01:50:14,958
going to your favorite eatery and just be

1264
01:50:14,958 --> 01:50:16,625
like hey like, I see that

1265
01:50:16,666 --> 01:50:18,416
you know you have a lot of plastic

1266
01:50:18,416 --> 01:50:20,458
containers, you can you just put in a bag

1267
01:50:20,458 --> 01:50:22,041
or can we do something else it'll really

1268
01:50:22,041 --> 01:50:24,500
help. We clean up the beach like twice a

1269
01:50:24,500 --> 01:50:26,500
month and there's this I see this stuff

1270
01:50:26,500 --> 01:50:28,875
all the time. Can we move I really like

1271
01:50:28,875 --> 01:50:31,333
that connection, and I feel like we've

1272
01:50:31,333 --> 01:50:32,875
moved away from that especially in North

1273
01:50:32,875 --> 01:50:35,166
America we've moved away from that local

1274
01:50:35,166 --> 01:50:37,083
connection and having that relationship

1275
01:50:37,083 --> 01:50:39,500
with people you respect, not from a place

1276
01:50:39,500 --> 01:50:41,291
of hey don't do this you're an awful

1277
01:50:41,291 --> 01:50:43,625
person but hey, I've seen this happen.

1278
01:50:43,666 --> 01:50:46,000
And, and a lot of times, you know, your

1279
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:47,208
branding was on it you don't want to see

1280
01:50:47,208 --> 01:50:48,791
that at like let's let's try and figure

1281
01:50:48,791 --> 01:50:50,500
out ways to do it whether it works or not

1282
01:50:50,500 --> 01:50:52,833
is something to be to be said like

1283
01:50:52,833 --> 01:50:54,875
something to look ahead at but I feel

1284
01:50:54,875 --> 01:50:57,833
like that that really helps in terms of

1285
01:50:57,833 --> 01:51:01,250
of this of this type of moment but it

1286
01:51:01,250 --> 01:51:03,208
seems like people are really just

1287
01:51:03,208 --> 01:51:05,958
continue to be disconnected from the

1288
01:51:05,958 --> 01:51:08,250
ocean I you know even being even being in

1289
01:51:08,250 --> 01:51:10,375
Hawaii, I saw a lot of things that

1290
01:51:10,375 --> 01:51:12,291
surprised me, you know,

1291
01:51:12,291 --> 01:51:12,666
and it comes back to this.

1292
01:51:14,041 --> 01:51:15,166
You know, the first thing is you're at a

1293
01:51:15,166 --> 01:51:16,500
lot of restaurants when you go away.

1294
01:51:17,125 --> 01:51:19,291
Every time a drink came, there was a

1295
01:51:19,291 --> 01:51:21,208
straw, you know, compostable

1296
01:51:21,208 --> 01:51:24,125
biodegradable or compostable straws which

1297
01:51:24,125 --> 01:51:26,208
I know aren't really compostable they're

1298
01:51:26,208 --> 01:51:28,666
basically plastic, and and you just sit

1299
01:51:28,666 --> 01:51:29,291
there and you're like,

1300
01:51:29,291 --> 01:51:31,541
look, I understand people don't

1301
01:51:31,666 --> 01:51:33,750
are sick of the plastic straw thing, I

1302
01:51:33,750 --> 01:51:36,375
get it. And I understand maybe there was

1303
01:51:36,375 --> 01:51:39,000
we went too far as as a as a conservation

1304
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:41,791
sort of plethora of like conservation

1305
01:51:41,791 --> 01:51:44,541
community to really focus in on that. To

1306
01:51:44,541 --> 01:51:46,000
me, it was like a gateway to other

1307
01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:47,250
plastics and are just

1308
01:51:47,250 --> 01:51:48,416
our usage of plastics.

1309
01:51:49,041 --> 01:51:50,583
But it seems like people are almost

1310
01:51:50,583 --> 01:51:53,833
rebelling against that, you know, you see

1311
01:51:53,833 --> 01:51:56,541
the the current administration. We've

1312
01:51:56,541 --> 01:51:58,416
seen people just regular people just

1313
01:51:58,416 --> 01:51:59,791
being like, I'm just sick of it. I don't

1314
01:51:59,791 --> 01:52:02,000
want to have a paper straw.

1315
01:52:04,375 --> 01:52:07,416
How do we as as the scientific community

1316
01:52:07,416 --> 01:52:09,291
as a conservative people interested in

1317
01:52:09,291 --> 01:52:11,625
conservation, not even scientists. How do

1318
01:52:11,625 --> 01:52:13,791
we combat that like what's your opinion

1319
01:52:13,791 --> 01:52:17,083
on that. When we start to see people

1320
01:52:17,083 --> 01:52:19,583
rebel against the conservation things

1321
01:52:19,583 --> 01:52:20,833
that we want people to take.

1322
01:52:21,666 --> 01:52:23,750
I sort of see it as a sort of a fatigue

1323
01:52:23,750 --> 01:52:26,625
in a way, right, we're just so sick of

1324
01:52:26,625 --> 01:52:29,041
and I get that I totally understand that

1325
01:52:29,041 --> 01:52:31,166
there's, you know, sometimes you hear so

1326
01:52:31,166 --> 01:52:33,666
much about something that just doesn't

1327
01:52:33,666 --> 01:52:35,833
kind of connect like why are we caring

1328
01:52:35,833 --> 01:52:37,333
about this tiny little tube.

1329
01:52:39,666 --> 01:52:42,541
Yeah, I mean, I think one one aspect that

1330
01:52:42,541 --> 01:52:44,791
I think is important to keep in mind that

1331
01:52:44,791 --> 01:52:48,291
maybe will help with this is all of these

1332
01:52:48,291 --> 01:52:51,333
larger pieces of plastic that we use just

1333
01:52:51,333 --> 01:52:54,208
one time, whether we dispose of them

1334
01:52:54,208 --> 01:52:57,416
correctly, or we don't all of those

1335
01:52:57,416 --> 01:52:59,166
things will end up as micro plastics

1336
01:52:59,666 --> 01:53:02,333
and as they as they degrade and you know

1337
01:53:02,333 --> 01:53:05,000
so all of the kind of health impacts and

1338
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:07,458
the things that are these like scary

1339
01:53:07,458 --> 01:53:09,083
headlines that you mentioned at the at

1340
01:53:09,083 --> 01:53:12,250
the start about where we find where we're

1341
01:53:12,250 --> 01:53:14,041
finding micro plastics in the human body.

1342
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:18,125
We can potentially reduce the total

1343
01:53:18,125 --> 01:53:20,666
number of micro plastics, if we just get

1344
01:53:20,666 --> 01:53:23,166
the big things out and

1345
01:53:23,166 --> 01:53:25,041
we stop utilizing them.

1346
01:53:26,666 --> 01:53:28,000
And also, you know, I think it's also

1347
01:53:28,000 --> 01:53:31,583
important to remember with plastic that

1348
01:53:31,583 --> 01:53:35,083
there are these big pros and cons you

1349
01:53:35,083 --> 01:53:37,250
know it's so imagine you're you have to

1350
01:53:37,250 --> 01:53:38,666
go to your doctor's office.

1351
01:53:39,625 --> 01:53:42,208
You are going to be pretty darn sure, and

1352
01:53:42,208 --> 01:53:44,583
that you want your doctor to be using all

1353
01:53:44,583 --> 01:53:47,125
kinds of plastic right plastic gloves

1354
01:53:47,125 --> 01:53:50,000
plastic, everything, whatever, because

1355
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:52,000
you can see the package being open you

1356
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:53,541
know that it's sterile you know that

1357
01:53:53,541 --> 01:53:55,291
it's, you know, so there are definitely

1358
01:53:55,666 --> 01:53:59,833
places hospitals are one where we want to

1359
01:53:59,833 --> 01:54:02,375
be using yes single use plastics and

1360
01:54:02,375 --> 01:54:03,000
where they're really

1361
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:05,250
important for people's health.

1362
01:54:06,916 --> 01:54:11,291
And, but then there are places where we

1363
01:54:11,291 --> 01:54:13,666
don't need them, like if if for the

1364
01:54:13,666 --> 01:54:16,041
majority of people who are who are

1365
01:54:16,041 --> 01:54:18,291
healthy and have good motor function,

1366
01:54:18,666 --> 01:54:20,125
they should be able to drink out of the

1367
01:54:20,125 --> 01:54:23,041
glass without a straw, you don't use even

1368
01:54:23,041 --> 01:54:24,875
a paper straw, really, right.

1369
01:54:25,666 --> 01:54:29,458
And so, you know, it's to think about, I

1370
01:54:29,458 --> 01:54:31,375
feel like, what are, I think as a

1371
01:54:31,375 --> 01:54:34,375
society, we need to decide what are the

1372
01:54:34,375 --> 01:54:39,083
types of plastics that we all admit, yes,

1373
01:54:39,083 --> 01:54:40,791
actually, these are really important and

1374
01:54:40,791 --> 01:54:42,458
in these situations this

1375
01:54:42,458 --> 01:54:43,666
is when we want to use them.

1376
01:54:44,666 --> 01:54:46,541
But that, you know, I don't need a

1377
01:54:46,541 --> 01:54:49,125
plastic bag to carry my loaf of bread

1378
01:54:49,125 --> 01:54:51,333
home from the store with me, you know,

1379
01:54:51,625 --> 01:54:53,875
like I don't, I don't need a plastic

1380
01:54:53,875 --> 01:54:57,708
straw in order from it from my glass when

1381
01:54:57,708 --> 01:55:00,125
I go out, because I don't use when my

1382
01:55:00,125 --> 01:55:01,500
guess is is most people don't

1383
01:55:01,666 --> 01:55:03,125
use them when they're at home. Right.

1384
01:55:04,375 --> 01:55:06,791
And so I think it's, I feel like that's

1385
01:55:06,791 --> 01:55:09,416
the thing that we maybe need to get out

1386
01:55:09,416 --> 01:55:12,500
is is to for for scientists and

1387
01:55:12,500 --> 01:55:16,208
policymakers and conservationists to to

1388
01:55:16,208 --> 01:55:19,375
more be more upfront about the fact that

1389
01:55:19,375 --> 01:55:21,000
it's you know it's not just about the

1390
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:22,791
straw it's it's about

1391
01:55:22,791 --> 01:55:23,625
all of these things that

1392
01:55:23,666 --> 01:55:27,333
we really don't need to use so that we

1393
01:55:27,333 --> 01:55:30,000
can be in the position to decide which

1394
01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:33,041
ones we do want to use and what are the

1395
01:55:33,041 --> 01:55:35,125
what's the value of those those items.

1396
01:55:35,708 --> 01:55:37,458
Yeah, it's like prioritizing the value of

1397
01:55:37,458 --> 01:55:39,875
exactly plastics right exactly because

1398
01:55:39,875 --> 01:55:42,500
because I do think that we have gone a

1399
01:55:42,500 --> 01:55:44,833
little bit overboard with things, you

1400
01:55:44,833 --> 01:55:47,000
know, in some cases, maybe, and, and that

1401
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:49,791
you're in that all people have heard is

1402
01:55:49,791 --> 01:55:51,833
don't use straws, but they haven't

1403
01:55:51,833 --> 01:55:52,625
actually been informed.

1404
01:55:52,666 --> 01:55:55,208
They haven't been informed about why that

1405
01:55:55,208 --> 01:55:56,416
is the case and what

1406
01:55:56,416 --> 01:55:57,666
is sort of behind it.

1407
01:55:59,416 --> 01:56:01,041
Yeah, and I, you know, there's, there's

1408
01:56:01,041 --> 01:56:03,250
also a whole nother aspect of this which

1409
01:56:03,250 --> 01:56:04,875
which we haven't really talked about but

1410
01:56:04,875 --> 01:56:07,000
it's the the fossil fuel aspect.

1411
01:56:08,666 --> 01:56:11,291
And so all plastics that we use

1412
01:56:11,291 --> 01:56:13,166
regardless of whether they're

1413
01:56:13,166 --> 01:56:16,833
biodegradable or not, are derived from

1414
01:56:16,833 --> 01:56:18,666
from fossil fuels. Yeah.

1415
01:56:19,291 --> 01:56:24,291
And so the more that we use plastics, the

1416
01:56:24,291 --> 01:56:27,291
more that we are are dwindling down our

1417
01:56:27,291 --> 01:56:28,583
very limited supply

1418
01:56:28,583 --> 01:56:31,625
of oil and natural gas.

1419
01:56:33,666 --> 01:56:35,166
And so, and, and those are having all

1420
01:56:35,166 --> 01:56:36,708
those other impacts that we talked about

1421
01:56:36,708 --> 01:56:38,000
that are affected the ocean coral

1422
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:40,500
bleaching ocean acidification warming,

1423
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:43,625
all those other things and so there's,

1424
01:56:43,625 --> 01:56:46,333
there's this underlying aspects about

1425
01:56:46,333 --> 01:56:47,708
plastics that we tend

1426
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:12,291
to talk about as much there's the debris part which is huge in which we see.

1427
01:57:12,666 --> 01:57:15,541
And so that's 30% of fossil fuel

1428
01:57:15,541 --> 01:57:17,541
revenues, revenues to the fossil fuel

1429
01:57:17,541 --> 01:57:20,458
industry is coming from plastics. That's,

1430
01:57:20,458 --> 01:57:22,583
that's exactly, I mean a big portion,

1431
01:57:22,833 --> 01:57:24,708
exactly a big portion of the natural gas

1432
01:57:24,708 --> 01:57:26,833
that's being produced in my state of

1433
01:57:26,833 --> 01:57:30,333
Pennsylvania gets shipped all around the,

1434
01:57:30,333 --> 01:57:31,916
around the world in

1435
01:57:31,916 --> 01:57:33,291
order to produce plastics.

1436
01:57:34,666 --> 01:57:35,666
And so that's not is not necessarily

1437
01:57:35,666 --> 01:57:37,833
being used to heat homes or to drive

1438
01:57:37,833 --> 01:57:40,791
cars. It's going into plastics and then

1439
01:57:40,791 --> 01:57:42,625
we just, you know, we use it once and we

1440
01:57:42,625 --> 01:57:45,625
throw it away. And so, again, I think

1441
01:57:45,625 --> 01:57:48,416
those are sort of societal questions,

1442
01:57:48,916 --> 01:57:51,708
what, what do we as a society think is

1443
01:57:51,708 --> 01:57:53,625
important and what do we, what do we want

1444
01:57:53,625 --> 01:57:55,833
to have done and, and then I think that

1445
01:57:55,833 --> 01:57:59,375
helps to drive policy but you know when

1446
01:57:59,375 --> 01:58:01,791
policy doesn't necessarily

1447
01:58:02,666 --> 01:58:03,416
have to go through the science.

1448
01:58:04,833 --> 01:58:07,708
I think that's where the consumer has a

1449
01:58:07,708 --> 01:58:11,625
lot of power and can really, really make

1450
01:58:11,625 --> 01:58:15,625
a difference by their actions and what

1451
01:58:15,625 --> 01:58:18,000
they purchase or don't purchase. And I

1452
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:19,875
think that that goes that does mean we

1453
01:58:19,875 --> 01:58:22,750
see that often that can go a long way

1454
01:58:22,750 --> 01:58:26,458
into making important changes happen.

1455
01:58:27,666 --> 01:58:30,583
I mean, I think it's a, it's an

1456
01:58:30,583 --> 01:58:32,625
interesting, like complex issue that

1457
01:58:32,625 --> 01:58:36,583
we're, that we're in with this type of of

1458
01:58:36,583 --> 01:58:37,958
things and again, I think it's the

1459
01:58:37,958 --> 01:58:40,583
disconnection from the environment that a

1460
01:58:40,583 --> 01:58:43,208
lot of people have these days in terms of

1461
01:58:43,208 --> 01:58:46,375
let's not interrupt our daily lives to

1462
01:58:46,375 --> 01:58:48,500
make these changes to help the ocean when

1463
01:58:48,500 --> 01:58:49,875
we don't see a lot of things that are

1464
01:58:49,875 --> 01:58:51,875
happening in the ocean for many of us who

1465
01:58:51,875 --> 01:58:53,625
live in land, but we're all connected.

1466
01:58:53,666 --> 01:58:55,708
connected. And I think when it comes to,

1467
01:58:56,208 --> 01:58:57,250
I think you were right, right from the

1468
01:58:57,250 --> 01:58:59,000
get go, Lisa, when you mentioned, like,

1469
01:58:59,000 --> 01:59:00,458
it's about community, do things,

1470
01:59:00,708 --> 01:59:03,125
community, do things local. You know,

1471
01:59:03,125 --> 01:59:03,958
there used to be that saying that

1472
01:59:03,958 --> 01:59:06,250
really, I think it hit home was, you

1473
01:59:06,250 --> 01:59:08,041
know, it was an act local, you know,

1474
01:59:08,041 --> 01:59:11,291
think globally. And it's, it's still

1475
01:59:11,291 --> 01:59:13,458
range true today, we kind of, we don't

1476
01:59:13,458 --> 01:59:15,416
say that as much, but it's still, you

1477
01:59:15,416 --> 01:59:17,000
know, range true today. And, and all

1478
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:19,000
those things need to be done at a policy

1479
01:59:19,000 --> 01:59:21,250
level at a federal and state and, and

1480
01:59:21,291 --> 01:59:23,000
provincial level and local level, we

1481
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:25,708
still need to act. And we still need to

1482
01:59:25,708 --> 01:59:29,458
understand that the way we work, the way

1483
01:59:29,458 --> 01:59:32,291
we do things as a society will affect

1484
01:59:32,291 --> 01:59:34,458
things down the road. And sometimes we

1485
01:59:34,458 --> 01:59:36,500
don't have a lot of say in terms of what

1486
01:59:36,500 --> 01:59:38,208
happens, but there are times where we can

1487
01:59:38,208 --> 01:59:40,666
take care of our local places and

1488
01:59:40,666 --> 01:59:42,833
make a difference. Now, there's a couple

1489
01:59:42,833 --> 01:59:44,791
more questions I have as we, and this is

1490
01:59:44,791 --> 01:59:46,208
a great conversation. I love this

1491
01:59:46,208 --> 01:59:47,541
conversation. I can probably have this

1492
01:59:47,583 --> 01:59:48,833
conversation for hours and hours and

1493
01:59:48,833 --> 01:59:49,708
hours and hours, but I want to be mindful

1494
01:59:49,708 --> 01:59:51,916
of your time. There's a couple questions.

1495
01:59:51,916 --> 01:59:54,791
The first one is, as you're out in the

1496
01:59:54,791 --> 01:59:56,500
field and doing things with your students

1497
01:59:56,500 --> 01:59:58,875
and your colleagues, what's the

1498
01:59:58,875 --> 02:00:02,416
most frustrating aspect of working with,

1499
02:00:02,666 --> 02:00:04,333
you know, the looking at the effects of

1500
02:00:04,333 --> 02:00:07,875
like microplastics and debris on coral

1501
02:00:07,875 --> 02:00:08,708
reefs? What's the,

1502
02:00:09,125 --> 02:00:10,083
what's what, and you're

1503
02:00:10,083 --> 02:00:11,750
out there, what you like when you see

1504
02:00:11,750 --> 02:00:13,083
stuff, as you mentioned before, sometimes

1505
02:00:13,208 --> 02:00:16,083
it can be hard to sort of realize how

1506
02:00:16,083 --> 02:00:17,416
much, you know, marine debris and

1507
02:00:17,416 --> 02:00:19,083
microplastics are out there. What's the

1508
02:00:19,083 --> 02:00:20,833
most frustrating thing for you as not

1509
02:00:20,833 --> 02:00:22,583
only a scientist, but as a person, as

1510
02:00:22,583 --> 02:00:23,416
someone who wants to

1511
02:00:23,416 --> 02:00:24,541
protect the ocean and

1512
02:00:24,541 --> 02:00:26,583
your, your, you know, the lab that you

1513
02:00:26,583 --> 02:00:28,291
have, what's the most frustrating you see

1514
02:00:28,291 --> 02:00:29,458
as a collective as a lab?

1515
02:00:30,833 --> 02:00:34,250
That's a good question. I, I, I guess, I

1516
02:00:34,250 --> 02:00:35,625
don't know, it's funny, I don't know that

1517
02:00:35,625 --> 02:00:37,833
there's a lot that does frustrate, like,

1518
02:00:37,833 --> 02:00:40,041
I feel like there's just so many kind of

1519
02:00:40,041 --> 02:00:41,750
exciting things that we've done that we don't have time to get frustrated with.

1520
02:00:41,791 --> 02:00:45,625
But I guess, I guess probably thinking

1521
02:00:45,625 --> 02:00:49,916
about it more, it's really just the, the

1522
02:00:49,916 --> 02:00:53,125
pervasiveness of it can can get get you

1523
02:00:53,125 --> 02:00:56,541
down and frustrated. Where, you know,

1524
02:00:56,541 --> 02:00:59,208
we're because we are seeing these things

1525
02:00:59,208 --> 02:01:02,666
so regularly. There is, you know, so like

1526
02:01:02,666 --> 02:01:04,208
I said, we've found things that have

1527
02:01:04,208 --> 02:01:05,750
traveled very long distances. And at first, there's this like, oh my God, this is so cool. This came from, you know, a lot of people, you know, they're like, oh, I'm not going to do this.

1528
02:01:15,583 --> 02:01:19,375
And, but then it sort of when it dawns on

1529
02:01:19,375 --> 02:01:24,000
you, oh, wow, this thing has been in the

1530
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:25,750
ocean for for many, many years or many, many miles, kilometers. I think that can sometimes get kind of frustrating. Like I was saying before, I think that's a really interesting thing.

1531
02:01:25,791 --> 02:01:37,833
You know, I guess a great question is that, you know, when you parts are planetyr 79

1532
02:01:37,833 --> 02:01:43,583
and you actually, maybe if you're on the ocean that you are on the ocean 40 multiply the fourteen Your two months before.

1533
02:01:44,500 --> 02:01:46,833
Two months before cause the picture.

1534
02:01:47,125 --> 02:01:47,750
Yes.

1535
02:01:47,750 --> 02:01:47,958
So. That, that.

1536
02:01:47,958 --> 02:01:51,208
Well. So when we actually quantify it, we do

1537
02:01:51,208 --> 02:01:54,000
see that the numbers reduce, but that you

1538
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:56,333
know, just looking at it, it's very hard

1539
02:01:56,333 --> 02:01:58,375
sometimes to discern that

1540
02:01:58,375 --> 02:02:00,208
there has been some improvement.

1541
02:02:01,375 --> 02:02:03,500
And so that I think sometimes that can

1542
02:02:03,500 --> 02:02:05,458
get a little bit frustrating for people

1543
02:02:05,458 --> 02:02:07,125
for just anybody really.

1544
02:02:07,958 --> 02:02:09,875
And is that the reduction is that the

1545
02:02:09,875 --> 02:02:11,750
actions of people cleaning up or is that

1546
02:02:11,750 --> 02:02:13,666
the actions of policies actually working?

1547
02:02:14,458 --> 02:02:16,125
I think that's the action of people

1548
02:02:16,125 --> 02:02:18,958
cleaning up. Okay, as far as I know, at

1549
02:02:18,958 --> 02:02:22,291
least in that area, there hasn't been any

1550
02:02:22,291 --> 02:02:23,666
real change in policy.

1551
02:02:25,041 --> 02:02:27,500
And so I think it's that we are just

1552
02:02:27,500 --> 02:02:30,416
cleaning up more regularly. And so we see

1553
02:02:30,416 --> 02:02:33,250
it locally in Philadelphia. A colleague

1554
02:02:33,250 --> 02:02:36,625
of mine has been working on more upstream

1555
02:02:36,625 --> 02:02:39,500
areas of some local rivers.

1556
02:02:40,416 --> 02:02:43,750
And there we've got some he has some

1557
02:02:43,750 --> 02:02:47,208
evidence that shows that plastic bag

1558
02:02:47,208 --> 02:02:49,708
bands that are happening in some

1559
02:02:49,708 --> 02:02:52,708
municipalities, but not others may be

1560
02:02:52,708 --> 02:02:54,041
having an impact on what

1561
02:02:54,041 --> 02:02:55,041
they're finding in the river.

1562
02:02:55,500 --> 02:02:58,083
So so there is some evidence. Yeah,

1563
02:02:58,416 --> 02:03:01,875
policy is is having an impact. Yeah,

1564
02:03:01,875 --> 02:03:03,500
which is nice. I can both, you know, the

1565
02:03:03,500 --> 02:03:05,958
cleanups and, you know, the policies.

1566
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:07,791
It's nice to see that both have the like

1567
02:03:07,791 --> 02:03:09,833
the evidence showing that they that they

1568
02:03:09,833 --> 02:03:11,500
work. That's really I think that's really

1569
02:03:11,500 --> 02:03:13,000
important for for communities to

1570
02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:14,208
understand for people to understand

1571
02:03:14,208 --> 02:03:15,625
because I think people are like, what's

1572
02:03:15,625 --> 02:03:17,083
the what's the like, what can we do?

1573
02:03:17,083 --> 02:03:18,833
There's there's microplastics all over

1574
02:03:18,833 --> 02:03:20,708
the ocean in the Marian at Marianne a

1575
02:03:20,708 --> 02:03:21,875
chance. Like there's nothing we can do

1576
02:03:21,875 --> 02:03:24,375
about it. And sometimes we rely too much

1577
02:03:24,375 --> 02:03:26,083
on government and expecting those

1578
02:03:26,083 --> 02:03:26,916
policies to go through.

1579
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:29,208
But we don't actually go out and do the

1580
02:03:29,208 --> 02:03:30,750
work ourselves or even work within our

1581
02:03:30,750 --> 02:03:33,583
local councils and say, Hey, shouldn't we

1582
02:03:33,583 --> 02:03:35,666
if this works, shouldn't we have a

1583
02:03:35,666 --> 02:03:37,250
cleanup crew? Like, wouldn't it be great

1584
02:03:37,250 --> 02:03:38,791
to have that cleanup crew like here in

1585
02:03:38,791 --> 02:03:41,000
Burlington hire some students clean up

1586
02:03:41,000 --> 02:03:44,083
the debris on a regular basis and measure

1587
02:03:44,083 --> 02:03:46,333
it, see if it reduces, see if it works.

1588
02:03:46,333 --> 02:03:48,250
Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's really

1589
02:03:48,250 --> 02:03:50,583
important to tell people is that it

1590
02:03:50,583 --> 02:03:53,125
actually works when it's done, even

1591
02:03:53,125 --> 02:03:54,416
though it may not seem like

1592
02:03:54,416 --> 02:03:55,958
it is that absolutely right.

1593
02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:58,208
Right. Yeah, that's absolutely true is

1594
02:03:58,208 --> 02:04:00,166
that, you know, and it partly I think

1595
02:04:00,166 --> 02:04:01,916
it's just our memories that it's for sure

1596
02:04:01,916 --> 02:04:03,333
to kind of remember what it

1597
02:04:03,333 --> 02:04:05,250
was like the last time. Yeah.

1598
02:04:05,458 --> 02:04:07,833
But yeah, if you if you take the time to

1599
02:04:07,833 --> 02:04:09,916
collect the data and it doesn't take a

1600
02:04:09,916 --> 02:04:12,208
lot of extra effort to do so, you know,

1601
02:04:12,416 --> 02:04:14,083
there are a lot of different

1602
02:04:14,083 --> 02:04:17,375
organizations online that have tally

1603
02:04:17,375 --> 02:04:19,333
sheets for these kinds of cleanups.

1604
02:04:20,166 --> 02:04:21,958
And so, you know, you can find something

1605
02:04:21,958 --> 02:04:24,666
that suits you and then it's actually

1606
02:04:24,666 --> 02:04:27,208
kind of fun when you're out there and you

1607
02:04:27,208 --> 02:04:28,541
pick something up before you put in the

1608
02:04:28,541 --> 02:04:29,625
bag, you just like make a

1609
02:04:29,625 --> 02:04:31,916
little tally of whatever it is.

1610
02:04:31,916 --> 02:04:34,125
Yep. Because that could also, you know,

1611
02:04:34,125 --> 02:04:35,625
help you identify where

1612
02:04:35,625 --> 02:04:36,875
things are coming from.

1613
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:40,583
But then it can also help, you know, the

1614
02:04:40,583 --> 02:04:43,041
totals at least can help you see whether

1615
02:04:43,041 --> 02:04:46,375
any new policies are having an impact and

1616
02:04:46,375 --> 02:04:47,750
that's what we are starting to see.

1617
02:04:48,458 --> 02:04:50,583
So really at sort of township or

1618
02:04:50,583 --> 02:04:54,166
municipality levels or city levels,

1619
02:04:54,166 --> 02:04:56,416
depending on sort of how your how your

1620
02:04:56,416 --> 02:05:00,583
area is organized can can sometimes pass

1621
02:05:00,583 --> 02:05:04,458
specific legislation around just their,

1622
02:05:04,458 --> 02:05:06,500
their, for their area.

1623
02:05:08,625 --> 02:05:11,458
And those like plastic bag bands or what

1624
02:05:11,458 --> 02:05:14,083
have you, those can have really strong

1625
02:05:14,083 --> 02:05:17,541
benefits to them over

1626
02:05:17,541 --> 02:05:20,125
overtime, at least it seems like.

1627
02:05:20,625 --> 02:05:22,750
Yeah, no, absolutely. I think I think it

1628
02:05:22,750 --> 02:05:24,166
will. And I think we just need to

1629
02:05:24,166 --> 02:05:26,125
reiterate that and communicate that fact

1630
02:05:26,125 --> 02:05:28,291
to the people that it does actually work

1631
02:05:28,291 --> 02:05:29,625
because I think a lot of people are just

1632
02:05:29,625 --> 02:05:31,666
so disconnected from from that aspect.

1633
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:34,833
So last question I have for you. And this

1634
02:05:34,833 --> 02:05:37,583
I find is an interesting one as well is

1635
02:05:37,583 --> 02:05:40,041
what are you, what studies that you that

1636
02:05:40,041 --> 02:05:41,708
how you have upcoming or that you are

1637
02:05:41,708 --> 02:05:44,166
working on right now that may not have

1638
02:05:44,166 --> 02:05:45,625
been published on yet what are you

1639
02:05:45,625 --> 02:05:47,791
excited about studying looking at or

1640
02:05:47,791 --> 02:05:50,458
maybe even some preliminary results that

1641
02:05:50,458 --> 02:05:51,291
you're just like, oh, this

1642
02:05:51,291 --> 02:05:51,875
is going to be interesting.

1643
02:05:54,000 --> 02:05:55,250
Yeah, we have a couple different micro

1644
02:05:55,250 --> 02:05:56,791
plastic related studies that will

1645
02:05:56,791 --> 02:05:59,041
hopefully be coming out in the next few

1646
02:05:59,041 --> 02:06:01,875
months or year a year maybe, but we have

1647
02:06:01,875 --> 02:06:03,625
some of that we have, we've looked at

1648
02:06:03,625 --> 02:06:07,166
micro plastics in lionfish, which are an

1649
02:06:07,166 --> 02:06:09,333
invasive species in the Caribbean,

1650
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:13,708
and we have the opportunity for there's a

1651
02:06:13,708 --> 02:06:16,875
some groups of people that cull them

1652
02:06:16,875 --> 02:06:17,958
remove them from the

1653
02:06:17,958 --> 02:06:19,958
environment in the Atlantic.

1654
02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:33,541
And the total of the sort of in the 50s I

1655
02:06:33,541 --> 02:06:35,666
think was the total number so decent

1656
02:06:35,666 --> 02:06:40,125
amount. And they average about six micro

1657
02:06:40,125 --> 02:06:43,750
plastics per fish. Wow. They're not like

1658
02:06:43,750 --> 02:06:45,708
terribly big fish either. They're not

1659
02:06:45,708 --> 02:06:48,416
huge. Yeah, they're not huge and size

1660
02:06:48,416 --> 02:06:50,708
didn't seem to play a role in this at

1661
02:06:50,708 --> 02:06:52,500
all, which was also kind of interesting,

1662
02:06:52,500 --> 02:06:54,083
which we were not not expecting.

1663
02:06:55,000 --> 02:06:59,166
So, you know, that could be one of the

1664
02:06:59,166 --> 02:07:01,333
things that is difficult to do with micro

1665
02:07:01,333 --> 02:07:04,750
plastics is sometimes, especially for

1666
02:07:04,750 --> 02:07:07,083
organisms, you have to harm them in order

1667
02:07:07,083 --> 02:07:09,583
to figure out what you have.

1668
02:07:10,291 --> 02:07:12,833
And that's, you know, that's not ideal

1669
02:07:12,833 --> 02:07:15,500
when all our species are already under

1670
02:07:15,500 --> 02:07:17,250
threat for all variety of different

1671
02:07:17,250 --> 02:07:19,416
reasons. So, you know, the invasive

1672
02:07:19,416 --> 02:07:22,500
species maybe becomes an ideal target, we

1673
02:07:22,500 --> 02:07:23,500
want to remove it anyway.

1674
02:07:25,000 --> 02:07:27,791
And so then we can also study these other

1675
02:07:27,791 --> 02:07:29,041
aspects of it. So that's one of the

1676
02:07:29,041 --> 02:07:30,583
things that we've been we've been doing

1677
02:07:30,583 --> 02:07:33,041
with a former grad student of mine.

1678
02:07:34,291 --> 02:07:36,000
And then, you know, we're also kind of

1679
02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:40,000
looking at this idea of when did micro

1680
02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:42,333
plastics, like when do we first start

1681
02:07:42,333 --> 02:07:46,083
seeing them in the environment. And so

1682
02:07:46,083 --> 02:07:48,708
we've been taking cores where we sort of

1683
02:07:48,708 --> 02:07:50,958
dig down into the sediment.

1684
02:07:51,000 --> 02:07:55,250
Yeah, to look at different layers over

1685
02:07:55,250 --> 02:07:59,708
time. And so far, we have not been able

1686
02:07:59,708 --> 02:08:01,541
to get down deep enough, but we don't see

1687
02:08:01,541 --> 02:08:03,000
any so we that's scary.

1688
02:08:03,375 --> 02:08:06,208
That's scary. It's a lot. It could be.

1689
02:08:06,416 --> 02:08:08,541
Yeah, I mean, it could be because these

1690
02:08:08,541 --> 02:08:10,416
are mostly beach environments and sort of

1691
02:08:10,416 --> 02:08:12,416
turn over quite a bit anyway so that

1692
02:08:12,416 --> 02:08:14,041
might be the case. We're going to start

1693
02:08:14,041 --> 02:08:15,958
looking at these and other in others are

1694
02:08:15,958 --> 02:08:17,625
more stable environments, too.

1695
02:08:19,958 --> 02:08:21,500
But, you know, I think that's kind of

1696
02:08:21,500 --> 02:08:23,541
exciting. And I think that can have

1697
02:08:23,541 --> 02:08:28,375
really can really make people sort of

1698
02:08:28,375 --> 02:08:32,791
take notice of just how how far it's not

1699
02:08:32,791 --> 02:08:36,041
just sort of on the surface and and

1700
02:08:36,041 --> 02:08:40,416
spatial, but that there also is a lot of

1701
02:08:40,416 --> 02:08:42,750
time behind this as well.

1702
02:08:43,000 --> 02:08:46,666
And that I think, you know, that that can

1703
02:08:46,666 --> 02:08:50,291
that really the time for us to stop some

1704
02:08:50,291 --> 02:08:53,000
of these bad behaviors is now. Yeah, or

1705
02:08:53,000 --> 02:08:55,250
we just kind of continue to push this

1706
02:08:55,250 --> 02:08:57,000
into the future. And I think that kind of

1707
02:08:57,000 --> 02:08:59,625
a study can really show help show that

1708
02:08:59,625 --> 02:09:02,708
and help depict the sort of the

1709
02:09:02,708 --> 02:09:05,708
timeliness of these kinds of problems.

1710
02:09:06,000 --> 02:09:09,250
Yeah. So is it safe to say in your

1711
02:09:09,250 --> 02:09:13,583
studies, your focus now a lot of it is on

1712
02:09:13,583 --> 02:09:16,541
like the question is, is where is

1713
02:09:16,541 --> 02:09:18,833
microplastics impacting the marine

1714
02:09:18,833 --> 02:09:20,166
environment? Because it's not just coral

1715
02:09:20,166 --> 02:09:21,791
reefs. It sounds like it's looking at,

1716
02:09:21,791 --> 02:09:23,416
okay, let's look at where it starts and

1717
02:09:23,416 --> 02:09:24,625
how far down does it go.

1718
02:09:25,041 --> 02:09:27,166
Let's look at is it affecting, you know,

1719
02:09:27,166 --> 02:09:28,625
invasive fish and using that as an

1720
02:09:28,625 --> 02:09:30,541
opportunity to study, you know, as we're

1721
02:09:30,541 --> 02:09:32,416
as we're taking them out. Is that safe to

1722
02:09:32,416 --> 02:09:34,375
say that your question is like how do

1723
02:09:34,375 --> 02:09:37,125
microplastics affect even the coastal

1724
02:09:37,125 --> 02:09:39,166
environment or a tropical environment?

1725
02:09:39,875 --> 02:09:41,791
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there's

1726
02:09:41,791 --> 02:09:44,375
to me because of just how connected all

1727
02:09:44,375 --> 02:09:48,000
of these things are in space, but also

1728
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:48,958
how they behave with each other.

1729
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:53,958
I think it it becomes in some ways it to

1730
02:09:53,958 --> 02:09:56,791
me, I feel like I've sort of moved a

1731
02:09:56,791 --> 02:09:58,875
little bit past corals in some ways.

1732
02:09:59,166 --> 02:10:01,375
Yeah, I, you know, I know that there

1733
02:10:01,375 --> 02:10:03,833
there are so many different other avenues

1734
02:10:03,833 --> 02:10:06,416
that we can look at and we can still tie

1735
02:10:06,416 --> 02:10:07,958
it back to the coral reef ecosystem.

1736
02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:11,875
So yeah, I think that that that does that

1737
02:10:11,875 --> 02:10:15,958
is accurate that we definitely have been

1738
02:10:15,958 --> 02:10:18,750
moving into some of these other areas. A

1739
02:10:18,750 --> 02:10:20,666
lot of it is driven by students actually,

1740
02:10:20,666 --> 02:10:22,333
though, you know, sometimes it's students

1741
02:10:22,333 --> 02:10:23,833
who come with their

1742
02:10:23,833 --> 02:10:26,541
ideas and their interests.

1743
02:10:27,333 --> 02:10:30,791
And so that helps to kind of broaden some

1744
02:10:30,791 --> 02:10:32,208
of the things that we're also doing.

1745
02:10:32,708 --> 02:10:35,208
Yeah, I love I love that aspect. I love

1746
02:10:35,208 --> 02:10:36,458
what you're doing. I love what you and

1747
02:10:36,458 --> 02:10:36,958
your labs are doing and even empowering this thing.

1748
02:10:37,000 --> 02:10:46,625
And I think that brings a lot of interest

1749
02:10:46,625 --> 02:10:48,916
and creativity into into your program.

1750
02:10:49,666 --> 02:10:50,750
And I think it comes up with a lot of

1751
02:10:50,750 --> 02:10:52,875
results that we've seen. And I'd love,

1752
02:10:52,875 --> 02:10:54,083
Lisa, for you to come back on the

1753
02:10:54,083 --> 02:10:56,250
podcast, talk about more of these studies

1754
02:10:56,250 --> 02:10:57,833
so that we can see these results and they

1755
02:10:57,833 --> 02:10:59,208
can people can hear them for themselves

1756
02:10:59,208 --> 02:11:02,000
and hear some optimism from that policies

1757
02:11:02,000 --> 02:11:03,458
work, beach cleanups work.

1758
02:11:04,000 --> 02:11:05,958
It may not look like it, but it does. And

1759
02:11:05,958 --> 02:11:07,541
I think that's that's wonderful. So I

1760
02:11:07,541 --> 02:11:09,625
want to thank you so much for coming on

1761
02:11:09,625 --> 02:11:11,000
the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

1762
02:11:11,000 --> 02:11:12,208
It's been it's been great to have you on.

1763
02:11:12,208 --> 02:11:13,083
I can't wait to have you on again.

1764
02:11:13,791 --> 02:11:16,333
Thank you. Thanks, Andrew. I was really

1765
02:11:16,333 --> 02:11:18,000
nice to chat with you about all of this.

1766
02:11:18,000 --> 02:11:19,750
Thank you, Lisa, for joining us on

1767
02:11:19,750 --> 02:11:21,083
today's episode of the How to Protect the

1768
02:11:21,083 --> 02:11:22,500
Ocean podcast. I can't wait to have you

1769
02:11:22,500 --> 02:11:24,541
back to talk more about some of the

1770
02:11:24,541 --> 02:11:26,291
research that's coming up and some of the

1771
02:11:26,291 --> 02:11:27,125
stuff that you're going to be publishing

1772
02:11:27,125 --> 02:11:27,958
on and getting results on.

1773
02:11:28,000 --> 02:11:30,083
It sounds really incredible. It sounds

1774
02:11:30,083 --> 02:11:32,625
like it's needed. It sounds like we need

1775
02:11:32,625 --> 02:11:35,291
to know how the environment is effective

1776
02:11:35,291 --> 02:11:36,958
so that we can put management and

1777
02:11:36,958 --> 02:11:39,458
policies in place so that we can get rid

1778
02:11:39,458 --> 02:11:40,958
of this stuff. Right? That's how

1779
02:11:40,958 --> 02:11:42,125
important it is. That's why it's

1780
02:11:42,125 --> 02:11:44,083
important to have scientists like Lisa

1781
02:11:44,083 --> 02:11:46,375
and the people in her lab to go out and

1782
02:11:46,375 --> 02:11:48,458
do this type of work. It's not easy work,

1783
02:11:48,458 --> 02:11:49,583
even though, you know, working in Puerto

1784
02:11:49,583 --> 02:11:51,416
Rico, working in Hawaii sounds like a

1785
02:11:51,416 --> 02:11:52,791
wonderful trip. And I'm sure there are

1786
02:11:52,791 --> 02:11:54,666
aspects of the trip and when they go in

1787
02:11:54,666 --> 02:11:57,000
the field that are phenomenal. But it's also very difficult to do that.

1788
02:11:58,000 --> 02:11:59,666
It's difficult to see environmental

1789
02:11:59,666 --> 02:12:02,125
degradation like they see each and every

1790
02:12:02,125 --> 02:12:04,875
day and to have that optimism that the

1791
02:12:04,875 --> 02:12:06,541
stuff is working, you know, beach and

1792
02:12:06,541 --> 02:12:09,208
coastal cleanups as well as policies in

1793
02:12:09,208 --> 02:12:10,791
certain places that are working. We need

1794
02:12:10,791 --> 02:12:12,375
to talk more about that. We need to get

1795
02:12:12,375 --> 02:12:14,875
that more on podcasts like this on videos

1796
02:12:14,875 --> 02:12:15,708
like you're watching on

1797
02:12:15,708 --> 02:12:17,333
YouTube on social media.

1798
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:18,958
And what's important to see me put out is

1799
02:12:18,958 --> 02:12:21,625
the fact that there are places where it

1800
02:12:21,625 --> 02:12:23,875
works and it's unique to everybody, but

1801
02:12:23,875 --> 02:12:26,000
we need to find out more of where these

1802
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:28,250
policies and these cleanups are actually

1803
02:12:28,250 --> 02:12:29,541
working. And that's why it's important

1804
02:12:29,541 --> 02:12:31,666
when you do a cleanup or you do a policy,

1805
02:12:31,666 --> 02:12:34,208
you measure and evaluate the results.

1806
02:12:34,208 --> 02:12:36,416
That's important part. And you adapt to

1807
02:12:36,416 --> 02:12:38,166
the management and what is working for

1808
02:12:38,166 --> 02:12:39,958
other people and what doesn't work for

1809
02:12:39,958 --> 02:12:42,458
certain places around the world. So it's

1810
02:12:42,458 --> 02:12:43,833
really important to connect everything

1811
02:12:43,833 --> 02:12:45,625
together, but it's also important to act

1812
02:12:45,625 --> 02:12:46,958
locally to think globally.

1813
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:48,750
That's what we're going to be talking

1814
02:12:48,750 --> 02:12:51,625
more about in upcoming podcasts, getting

1815
02:12:51,625 --> 02:12:53,208
that optimism back. Getting the fact is

1816
02:12:53,208 --> 02:12:54,625
that we are connected to the ocean

1817
02:12:54,625 --> 02:12:56,250
always, no matter where you live, where

1818
02:12:56,250 --> 02:12:57,833
you live in Burlington, Ontario or live

1819
02:12:57,833 --> 02:13:00,208
in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, or you

1820
02:13:00,208 --> 02:13:01,958
live in Hawaii or Puerto Rico where you

1821
02:13:01,958 --> 02:13:04,041
see the ocean every day. We're all

1822
02:13:04,041 --> 02:13:05,583
connected to the ocean in some kind of

1823
02:13:05,583 --> 02:13:07,500
way. And we need to make sure that our

1824
02:13:07,500 --> 02:13:09,416
communities, our own regions are

1825
02:13:09,416 --> 02:13:10,708
protected and we take

1826
02:13:10,708 --> 02:13:11,958
care of them as a community.

1827
02:13:12,000 --> 02:13:13,708
We can't just let other people do it. We

1828
02:13:13,708 --> 02:13:15,125
can't let the marine conservationists and

1829
02:13:15,125 --> 02:13:16,416
the conservationists and the scientists

1830
02:13:16,416 --> 02:13:18,458
leave it up to them to do it. We have to

1831
02:13:18,458 --> 02:13:20,291
do this. We have to take care of our

1832
02:13:20,291 --> 02:13:21,708
local area. And that's including myself

1833
02:13:21,708 --> 02:13:23,791
to need to be more connected to where we

1834
02:13:23,791 --> 02:13:25,416
are. But that's what we're going to talk

1835
02:13:25,416 --> 02:13:27,583
about in future episodes. But I hope you

1836
02:13:27,583 --> 02:13:29,583
enjoyed this episode. Lisa was such a

1837
02:13:29,583 --> 02:13:31,500
great communicator. Want to have her back

1838
02:13:31,500 --> 02:13:33,541
on soon. And I told her after I said, you

1839
02:13:33,541 --> 02:13:34,791
should be on more podcasts. You should be

1840
02:13:34,791 --> 02:13:36,666
doing more of this because people need to

1841
02:13:36,666 --> 02:13:37,958
know what you're up to. Because I think

1842
02:13:37,958 --> 02:13:38,666
it's really important.

1843
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:40,916
But also I want to thank Lisa. I want to

1844
02:13:40,916 --> 02:13:42,250
thank her lab for the work that they do.

1845
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And I want to thank you for listening to

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02:13:44,291 --> 02:13:45,791
this episode of the how to protect the

1847
02:13:45,791 --> 02:13:47,875
ocean podcast. If you want to know more

1848
02:13:47,875 --> 02:13:49,875
about how to protect the ocean, you can

1849
02:13:49,875 --> 02:13:52,208
subscribe to our YouTube channel. You can

1850
02:13:52,208 --> 02:13:54,083
subscribe to our Spotify channel, watch

1851
02:13:54,083 --> 02:13:56,500
the video on Spotify or listen to it on

1852
02:13:56,500 --> 02:13:58,583
your Spotify app. You can also listen to

1853
02:13:58,583 --> 02:14:00,791
an Apple podcast on Amazon. But if you

1854
02:14:00,791 --> 02:14:02,958
want to find out if your favorite podcast

1855
02:14:02,958 --> 02:14:05,500
app is available, go to our website

1856
02:14:05,500 --> 02:14:07,000
speakupforblue.com. That's speakupforblue.com.

1857
02:14:09,000 --> 02:14:12,458
Forward slash podcast to be able to

1858
02:14:12,458 --> 02:14:14,625
listen to all of our episodes and find

1859
02:14:14,625 --> 02:14:16,583
your favorite podcast app so that you can

1860
02:14:16,583 --> 02:14:18,666
connect to it on the go on the run and

1861
02:14:18,666 --> 02:14:20,166
listen to it each and every time Monday,

1862
02:14:20,375 --> 02:14:21,375
Wednesday and Friday when we release

1863
02:14:21,375 --> 02:14:22,791
episodes. So if you want to go there

1864
02:14:22,791 --> 02:14:25,500
speakupforblue.com. If you have any

1865
02:14:25,500 --> 02:14:27,458
questions or any concerns, you can email

1866
02:14:27,458 --> 02:14:30,250
me from that website or you can hit me up

1867
02:14:30,250 --> 02:14:32,666
on Instagram at how to protect the ocean.

1868
02:14:32,666 --> 02:14:34,625
That's at how to protect the ocean. I

1869
02:14:34,625 --> 02:14:36,041
want to thank you so much for joining me

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02:14:36,041 --> 02:14:37,500
on today's episode of the how to protect

1871
02:14:37,500 --> 02:14:38,000
the ocean podcast. Have a great day.

1872
02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:39,583
We'll talk to you next

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02:14:39,583 --> 02:14:41,000
time and have a conservation.