Protecting Manta Rays from Over-Tourism in Hawaii – Martina Wing’s Mission

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I want you to picture this.

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Imagine you spend a ton of money to go to

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Hawaii, the big island Kona, Hawaii.

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And the idea of going to Hawaii is to

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connect with nature.

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And one of the ways to connect with

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nature is to do a manorway dive.

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Now this is a dive at night.

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So it's already a little nerve wracking

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to dive at night, but when you get in the

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water, you have this beautiful experience

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and it's a life-changing experience.

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But how many is too many operators that

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are offering this service?

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We're going to talk to Martina Wing from

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the Manorway group as well as

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from the Hawaii Ocean Watch.

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She is here to talk about her experience

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with the Manorway operating experience,

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but also with making sure that the

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Manorays are protected.

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And that also the people who are the

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tourists who are going to pay for the

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service are also having a

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good time and that they're safe.

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It's been a little bit since the

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operating industry has grown for the

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Manorway experience.

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And so she wants to talk about how that's

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grown and how regulations need to be put

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into place to protect Manorays as well as

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the operators, as well as the people.

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And we're going to talk about that on

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today's episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey, everybody.

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Welcome back to another exciting episode

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of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I am your host, Andrew Lewin.

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And this is the podcast where you find

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out what's happening with the ocean, how

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you can speak up for the ocean and what

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you can do to live for a

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better ocean by taking action.

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And on today's episode, we have Martina

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Wing, who is the owner of Manorway

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Advocates, a tour operator that takes

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people out on to have a beautiful

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experience with seeing Manorays eat at

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night, diving at night.

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Imagine what this is this this experience

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can do for you to connect with the ocean,

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to connect with these majestic animals,

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just sort of diving through doing

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backflips in the water,

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eating plankton at night.

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It's crazy to think about it.

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I am a an advanced open water dive diver.

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I've done dives at night

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in a lake, not in the ocean.

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And being able to see

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this is quite the experience.

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People get nervous when they go in.

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They come out with their

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life changing experience.

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And it's amazing.

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And Martina is here to talk about that

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experience and why it's so important for

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people to connect with the ocean in this

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way, but also that we need to protect

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these Manorays from this operating

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business going crazy in terms of the

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number of operators that come in, having

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the snorkelers come by as well as divers,

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what to expect, and sort of what the

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questions to ask when you are going to

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talk to these dive

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operators about this experience.

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So there's a lot to

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cover in this episode.

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Martina was great in in divulging a lot

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of stuff that's been going on and, you

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know, things that need to be done,

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regulations that need to be put into

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place and why they

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haven't been put into place.

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We're still asking that question and her

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efforts to push forward regulations for

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these boat operators

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or these dive operators.

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So we're going to talk about

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that all in today's episode.

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And so here is the interview with Martina

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Wing talking about

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Manorae diving operations.

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Enjoy the interview and

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I'll talk to you after.

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Hey Martina, welcome to the How to

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Protect the Ocean podcast.

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Are you ready to talk about Manorae's?

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I'm so ready.

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Thanks for letting me be on your podcast.

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Oh, I am so excited.

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I don't get to talk

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about Manorae's a lot.

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And so I'm very excited to be able to

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talk about Manorae's.

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And we're talking about in a very

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different context today.

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There's sometimes I have another podcast

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called Beyond Jaws where we get into the

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science like of the physiology and all

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the morphologies and stuff of stingrays.

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Today we're going to be

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getting into a different type.

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We're going to get into the conservation

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of Manorae's but also from a in the eyes

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and the lens of a tour operator that has

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also a nonprofit to protect, you know,

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ocean animals, not just the Manorae's but

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the entire environment.

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And we're going to be in the area of

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Hawaii, which is a lot of fun because I'm

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about to head over there with my family

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in a couple of weeks.

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So I'm very excited about that.

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But Martina before we get into the

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conservation aspect and everything that

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you do, why don't you just let us know

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who you are and what you do?

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All right.

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So I'm live in Hawaii and I came the

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first time to Hawaii

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as a tourist in 1998.

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I'm on the big island.

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It's on the west side.

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It's the Kona area.

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And when I came as a tourist, it was just

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let's go into the ocean.

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And I had my

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certification and went diving.

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It's actually this month.

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February is my anniversary month.

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Twenty seven years that I saw the

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Manorae's for the first time.

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And it is here on this coastline.

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It's a special tour.

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So in general, you talk

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about ocean recreation.

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You go somewhere tropical

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and maybe a tour operator.

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You go on a boat and go someplace.

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And it's usually it

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happens during the day.

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But this particular activity is takes

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place at night because we take advantage

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of plankton being

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concentrating around light at night.

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And the manor population on this

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coastline has learned of about 30 years

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now when there's light in the ocean at

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night, there could be is a high potential

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that plankton is there in abundance.

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And then the manor is

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going to feed there.

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Right. So when so when I was doing it in

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98 for the very first time, the activity

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commercially started in 1991.

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So not too many years.

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I was one location at this point and I

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saw the manor is and it

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really, really touched my heart.

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There are big fish, the harmonies.

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They have no teeth, no stinger, no bar.

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And I was diving very bad diver, you

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know, just a few dives under my belt.

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But it's a guided tour.

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So the dive masters took care of me and

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you get real close ups.

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And I mean, really like Manor is flying

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over your head when you're diving.

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You're staying on the bottom.

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So you're not in that space.

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But the idea is lights on the bottom.

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There's actually not today lights on the

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surface to from the snorkellers.

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This is incredible cool setup with lights

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at night in the ocean.

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The plankton is in

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abundance usually on those nights.

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And the manor is I've learned it's the

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class conditioning of an animal, in this

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case, a fish in the ocean to come to a

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place where lights attract plankton.

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And the manor is have a nice dinner and

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you have an incredible show.

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And it really touched my heart.

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That changed my whole life.

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I can imagine Germany had finished

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school, engineering school.

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And then the tourists came here at first.

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And then the end of that story in a short

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form is I actually bought the video on my

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very first night dive with

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the manor is and it was my mom.

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The HS tapes.

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Yes.

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We probably remember this.

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I do.

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And then I bought the just tape from this

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camera person on the boat and I purchased

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it and I did go home.

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But I met this guy a little more.

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Well, in other stories, I bought the

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video and married the guy.

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So I moved to Hawaii.

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We are together here

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and running a business.

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First, it was based on photography

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underwater photography.

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And now we're also to operate.

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So it's a span of 27 years.

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But, yeah, you can actually say that it

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was an unreal journey.

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But I just had turned 30 at that point

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and finished with school.

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I had a sad chapter of my life at that

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point and a lot of grief.

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And then I did this manor a dive and

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being around these animals, they're just

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like lighting so gracefully through the

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water that comes so close was angel like,

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you know, it's open my

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heart to there's more to life.

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And so the grief bubble

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kind of opened up a little bit.

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And yeah, it is very,

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it was very powerful.

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And I believe I still

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remember that so vividly.

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And when I have my guests now all these

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years, they come out of the water.

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And they say that's one of the best

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things they've done in their life.

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And it's a perpetual

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story from guest after guest.

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They don't know what

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to expect just like me.

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But then they come out of

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the water 30, 45 minutes later.

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And what I'm doing here in Hawaii?

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Yeah, for sure.

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And then they go this emotional journey

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of 30, 45 minutes and accomplish

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something really, really special.

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It's my favorite thing to talk about how

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people are courageous at the end and and

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carry that with them

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for the rest of the life.

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And in my case, I changed

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the whole my my whole life.

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It was definitely life changing, right?

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It's literally life changing.

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I mean, that's a phenomenal story.

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And it's true.

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I was thinking the same thing.

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And I was like, this is

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a night dive in Hawaii.

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There were so many

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different species that are there.

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If you're not used to a

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night dive, I've gone.

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I have my advanced open water.

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So I've done night diving, but I did it

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01:09:00,750 --> 01:09:02,500
in a freshwater lake here in Ontario.

277
01:09:03,125 --> 01:09:10,750
There isn't anything that can harm me

278
01:09:10,750 --> 01:09:11,875
other than the water itself.

279
01:09:13,125 --> 01:09:15,666
But it's when you're in the ocean,

280
01:09:15,916 --> 01:09:18,250
especially in a place like Hawaii and you

281
01:09:18,250 --> 01:09:18,666
and maybe you have some preconceived notions that, you know, you're not used to it.

282
01:09:18,666 --> 01:09:20,500
What's going on. and maybe you have some preconceived

283
01:09:20,500 --> 01:09:21,791
notions of the water,

284
01:09:21,791 --> 01:09:23,583
especially at night, predators come out.

285
01:09:23,958 --> 01:09:25,291
But I imagine just being

286
01:09:25,291 --> 01:09:26,708
at the bottom of that water,

287
01:09:26,791 --> 01:09:28,291
looking up and seeing

288
01:09:28,291 --> 01:09:30,000
these beautiful, beautiful fish

289
01:09:30,125 --> 01:09:31,833
just kind of glide above you.

290
01:09:31,833 --> 01:09:34,166
We've all seen it in documentaries.

291
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:35,708
And you'll probably tell

292
01:09:35,708 --> 01:09:37,250
me it doesn't do it justice

293
01:09:37,416 --> 01:09:38,916
until you're in the

294
01:09:38,916 --> 01:09:40,375
water, seeing it for yourself.

295
01:09:40,916 --> 01:09:42,916
It must just be like a movie

296
01:09:42,916 --> 01:09:45,375
that's just in better than 4K,

297
01:09:45,541 --> 01:09:47,916
just continuing over and in a loop.

298
01:09:47,958 --> 01:09:49,291
And it's just got to be one of the most

299
01:09:49,291 --> 01:09:51,583
beautiful things in the world.

300
01:09:51,583 --> 01:09:52,875
You probably have music going on in the

301
01:09:52,875 --> 01:09:54,416
back of your head as you watch this.

302
01:09:54,666 --> 01:09:56,833
Right. Just just phenomenal.

303
01:09:57,166 --> 01:09:58,833
And how many like how

304
01:09:58,833 --> 01:10:01,291
many dives do you do a week?

305
01:10:01,291 --> 01:10:02,208
Like does your does

306
01:10:02,208 --> 01:10:03,333
your company do a week?

307
01:10:04,375 --> 01:10:06,916
So when I used to do specifically

308
01:10:06,916 --> 01:10:08,083
underwater photography,

309
01:10:08,083 --> 01:10:09,166
actually, videography.

310
01:10:09,166 --> 01:10:12,500
So I always what my husband did selling

311
01:10:12,500 --> 01:10:14,291
me that video back in 1998.

312
01:10:14,291 --> 01:10:19,458
And I just joined his small

313
01:10:19,458 --> 01:10:21,083
one person company, you know,

314
01:10:21,083 --> 01:10:22,500
right for videographer.

315
01:10:23,166 --> 01:10:25,541
Yeah, that really bad

316
01:10:25,541 --> 01:10:27,458
diver, 10 dives next.

317
01:10:27,666 --> 01:10:28,291
Yeah, nothing.

318
01:10:28,458 --> 01:10:30,166
You're kind of certified but not

319
01:10:30,166 --> 01:10:31,291
qualified for anything.

320
01:10:31,541 --> 01:10:34,208
Right. But so that was

321
01:10:34,208 --> 01:10:37,166
then for 17 years until 2017.

322
01:10:37,291 --> 01:10:41,333
I solely went diving five to six times a

323
01:10:41,333 --> 01:10:42,708
week filming the

324
01:10:42,708 --> 01:10:43,291
guests like my husband did.

325
01:10:43,291 --> 01:10:47,541
For me and the industry had done grown

326
01:10:47,541 --> 01:10:49,958
more boats came out and for us because we

327
01:10:49,958 --> 01:10:51,583
were so specialized on filming the

328
01:10:51,583 --> 01:10:52,583
memories with the guests

329
01:10:52,583 --> 01:10:54,458
and making a living of that.

330
01:10:55,041 --> 01:10:57,708
Yeah. You know, more and more companies

331
01:10:57,708 --> 01:10:59,333
said we want your service.

332
01:10:59,541 --> 01:11:01,500
It was when they didn't have to own

333
01:11:01,500 --> 01:11:03,083
videographer or didn't have to take the

334
01:11:03,083 --> 01:11:05,041
dive master with the camera was less

335
01:11:05,041 --> 01:11:06,291
risky to write as many things happening.

336
01:11:07,291 --> 01:11:10,625
Of course. So yeah. And over the years

337
01:11:10,625 --> 01:11:14,750
and in 2001, I believe maybe 1999 another

338
01:11:14,750 --> 01:11:16,708
dive site, my husband set up another dive

339
01:11:16,708 --> 01:11:18,833
site or discovered it and establish it.

340
01:11:18,833 --> 01:11:21,000
So then there were two dive sites. And

341
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:23,708
for the longest time, he was at one site,

342
01:11:24,041 --> 01:11:26,125
the original where I went to on 1998.

343
01:11:26,875 --> 01:11:28,500
And I was at the other side. So we

344
01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:29,916
covered many companies that

345
01:11:29,916 --> 01:11:31,875
were just wanting a service.

346
01:11:32,333 --> 01:11:34,375
So when you ask me how often was I in the

347
01:11:34,375 --> 01:11:37,041
water diving six, five to six times a

348
01:11:37,041 --> 01:11:40,000
week, pretty much from March till

349
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,208
December, general fabric is really rough.

350
01:11:42,458 --> 01:11:45,416
Then you cancel more. But lots and lots

351
01:11:45,416 --> 01:11:48,708
and lots of hours on scuba and the dive

352
01:11:48,708 --> 01:11:50,708
is shallow. So for someone trying to

353
01:11:50,708 --> 01:11:52,250
imagine it, it's the

354
01:11:52,250 --> 01:11:53,500
dive is 30 feet deep.

355
01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:55,583
It's not that deep. It's really close to

356
01:11:55,583 --> 01:11:57,708
shore. How why our island, you know, it's

357
01:11:57,708 --> 01:11:58,291
the tip of the mountain.

358
01:11:58,333 --> 01:12:00,708
You see when sticks out of the water and

359
01:12:00,708 --> 01:12:02,791
then when you go down into the water, it

360
01:12:02,791 --> 01:12:04,208
just, you know, you stay close to shore

361
01:12:04,208 --> 01:12:05,041
because when you go further

362
01:12:05,041 --> 01:12:06,416
out, it's just really deep.

363
01:12:06,791 --> 01:12:09,666
Yes, really deep. So it's a close to

364
01:12:09,666 --> 01:12:13,458
shore dive 30 feet deep. But you have to

365
01:12:13,458 --> 01:12:14,916
be certified to do the dive.

366
01:12:14,916 --> 01:12:16,458
And then eventually there was then also

367
01:12:16,458 --> 01:12:18,125
the switch that snorkellers. And if you

368
01:12:18,125 --> 01:12:20,875
think of what it attracted to that people

369
01:12:20,875 --> 01:12:22,041
want to do it, most

370
01:12:22,041 --> 01:12:22,291
people are not certified.

371
01:12:23,291 --> 01:12:26,708
Then the snorkeller market opened up and

372
01:12:26,708 --> 01:12:30,083
that happened maybe 2008, nine, 10 normal

373
01:12:30,083 --> 01:12:33,833
boats came into the fold of the industry

374
01:12:33,833 --> 01:12:36,750
that maybe only the daytime snorkeling

375
01:12:36,750 --> 01:12:38,458
then added as a new

376
01:12:38,458 --> 01:12:40,375
product snorkeling at night.

377
01:12:40,708 --> 01:12:44,833
So you had more people out there. And but

378
01:12:44,833 --> 01:12:47,666
then in 2017, I stopped filming and then

379
01:12:47,666 --> 01:12:48,833
my husband set up

380
01:12:48,833 --> 01:12:50,291
another site further north.

381
01:12:50,333 --> 01:12:52,333
And that's why I operate now as an

382
01:12:52,333 --> 01:12:55,291
operator. Okay. And over the years, about

383
01:12:55,291 --> 01:12:57,333
60 companies have established themselves

384
01:12:57,333 --> 01:12:58,958
to offer the same tour,

385
01:12:59,416 --> 01:13:01,000
either diving or snorkeling.

386
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,208
And that's a lot of people. Yeah, get

387
01:13:03,208 --> 01:13:05,708
into this in a minute. Yeah. But we are

388
01:13:05,708 --> 01:13:06,916
very fortunate. My husband

389
01:13:06,916 --> 01:13:09,458
is really looking out for us.

390
01:13:09,666 --> 01:13:11,625
Our specialty is Manneri. So he set up

391
01:13:11,625 --> 01:13:14,750
with a hotel on a private beach, the

392
01:13:14,750 --> 01:13:16,708
tours. So I don't need a boat to get to

393
01:13:16,708 --> 01:13:18,291
the Manneri. So it's pretty special.

394
01:13:18,333 --> 01:13:21,500
And I'm in the water again from March

395
01:13:21,500 --> 01:13:23,125
till December. Usually we are in the

396
01:13:23,125 --> 01:13:24,625
water seven times a week and I personally

397
01:13:24,625 --> 01:13:26,625
go four to five times a week. So yeah.

398
01:13:26,875 --> 01:13:31,250
Wow. Now does the Manneri outfit, does

399
01:13:31,250 --> 01:13:33,708
that have like you guys also own the

400
01:13:33,708 --> 01:13:36,083
hotel or you work off of like when I'm a

401
01:13:36,083 --> 01:13:37,083
vendor to the hotel.

402
01:13:37,458 --> 01:13:38,291
I'm a vendor to the hotel.

403
01:13:38,333 --> 01:13:41,041
Okay. That is my for profit company. You

404
01:13:41,041 --> 01:13:43,958
see it here, Manteri Advocates. So if you

405
01:13:43,958 --> 01:13:46,125
would go to look for us, you know, that

406
01:13:46,125 --> 01:13:48,291
would be my website name too. But this is

407
01:13:48,291 --> 01:13:49,541
my for profit company.

408
01:13:49,916 --> 01:13:53,166
But we were branded back in 2012, 2013.

409
01:13:53,666 --> 01:13:55,125
We used to be photography only. So we

410
01:13:55,125 --> 01:13:56,833
were called Ocean Wing, Hawaii in

411
01:13:56,833 --> 01:14:00,041
photography. Now we are Manneri Advocates

412
01:14:00,041 --> 01:14:03,250
because when the industry grew and grew,

413
01:14:03,250 --> 01:14:03,958
nobody was speaking

414
01:14:03,958 --> 01:14:04,291
really for the animals.

415
01:14:04,333 --> 01:14:07,625
And I really felt compelled to be the

416
01:14:07,625 --> 01:14:10,958
advocate for the animal and it's how it

417
01:14:10,958 --> 01:14:13,416
works. Now there's a lot in the name to

418
01:14:13,416 --> 01:14:15,625
put on second. There's a printer going in

419
01:14:15,625 --> 01:14:19,708
the background. Oh, no worries. I can

420
01:14:19,708 --> 01:14:21,291
barely hear it. Okay.

421
01:14:21,333 --> 01:14:23,291
It should be good. Now,

422
01:14:23,291 --> 01:14:24,375
there's a lot in the name.

423
01:14:24,375 --> 01:14:25,625
It's several pages. So.

424
01:14:26,291 --> 01:14:28,875
That's right. There's a lot in the name.

425
01:14:29,500 --> 01:14:31,166
And, you know, having advocates at the

426
01:14:31,166 --> 01:14:32,708
end of that name is really important,

427
01:14:32,708 --> 01:14:35,708
obviously to you. And it means a lot in

428
01:14:35,708 --> 01:14:37,166
the conservation space. It means that

429
01:14:37,166 --> 01:14:39,041
you're not just a tour operator, you're

430
01:14:39,041 --> 01:14:41,791
out looking out for the Manneri's. You're

431
01:14:41,791 --> 01:14:43,500
an advocate for the Manneri's and in

432
01:14:43,500 --> 01:14:45,500
conservation, you are going to speak up

433
01:14:45,500 --> 01:14:47,500
for those Manneri's on land where there

434
01:14:47,500 --> 01:14:49,166
needs to be protections.

435
01:14:49,291 --> 01:14:55,000
As the industry grew, why did you decide

436
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,625
like we need more advocates out there

437
01:14:57,625 --> 01:14:59,166
while we're doing these while we're

438
01:14:59,166 --> 01:15:00,958
writing these tours and how did that

439
01:15:00,958 --> 01:15:03,666
change your like you and your husband's

440
01:15:03,666 --> 01:15:05,291
approach when you did the tour operating?

441
01:15:06,250 --> 01:15:10,083
Yeah. So this activity works the best if

442
01:15:10,083 --> 01:15:12,125
we work together with different

443
01:15:12,125 --> 01:15:14,250
companies. You know, if you would do a

444
01:15:14,250 --> 01:15:17,375
daytime snorkeling, you can find a space

445
01:15:17,375 --> 01:15:19,500
along the shoreline and do your snorkel

446
01:15:19,500 --> 01:15:22,500
there. You want both not much impact to

447
01:15:22,500 --> 01:15:24,000
have maybe 10, 20 people in the world.

448
01:15:24,291 --> 01:15:26,833
Okay. When on mental experience, you need

449
01:15:26,833 --> 01:15:29,125
the light to attract the plankton so the

450
01:15:29,125 --> 01:15:32,666
Manneri's come together. And so only to

451
01:15:32,666 --> 01:15:34,916
set that up 100 feet away is really

452
01:15:34,916 --> 01:15:37,041
detrimental to the whole setup. So we

453
01:15:37,041 --> 01:15:38,916
always record the campfire method where

454
01:15:38,916 --> 01:15:41,291
we all meet at the campfire.

455
01:15:41,291 --> 01:15:43,125
And the divers sit around a light box,

456
01:15:43,333 --> 01:15:45,291
you know, the box and as people sitting

457
01:15:45,291 --> 01:15:46,708
around it, that's it on the bottom of the

458
01:15:46,708 --> 01:15:48,875
ocean 30 feet, and they have a light

459
01:15:48,875 --> 01:15:50,916
that's trying to towards the surface. And

460
01:15:50,916 --> 01:15:52,958
then we said also the snorkelers, you

461
01:15:52,958 --> 01:15:55,250
guys come to the campfire as well.

462
01:15:55,250 --> 01:15:57,583
And then you'll be on top. So the idea of

463
01:15:57,583 --> 01:15:59,666
everybody wins, you know, a big

464
01:15:59,666 --> 01:16:02,000
proponent. Everybody wins. Conservation

465
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:05,083
is about humans win, but more important,

466
01:16:05,083 --> 01:16:06,000
the environment and

467
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:07,291
the animals win. Right.

468
01:16:07,541 --> 01:16:09,333
That's it's just what my heart always has

469
01:16:09,333 --> 01:16:12,000
been. And that's what I was I'm trying to

470
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:13,833
always push forward. And when this

471
01:16:13,833 --> 01:16:16,125
interesting time, I mean, for maybe 20

472
01:16:16,125 --> 01:16:17,708
years now, it's like the people are like

473
01:16:17,708 --> 01:16:20,291
not understanding that our species is not

474
01:16:20,291 --> 01:16:21,958
as important, you know, it's like we have

475
01:16:21,958 --> 01:16:23,541
to really step back where we're going is

476
01:16:23,541 --> 01:16:27,583
not working. Right. Anyway, and so when

477
01:16:27,583 --> 01:16:30,958
more companies with snorkelers started to

478
01:16:30,958 --> 01:16:34,291
join the tour business, and they, like I

479
01:16:34,291 --> 01:16:36,291
said earlier, they maybe just said, Oh, I have a daytime product.

480
01:16:36,291 --> 01:16:40,791
To sell, you know, or maybe a sunset to a

481
01:16:40,791 --> 01:16:43,166
business, you know, no, I'm going to add

482
01:16:43,166 --> 01:16:45,333
mannerize to it, you know, and then

483
01:16:45,333 --> 01:16:47,375
suddenly, instead of having eight boats

484
01:16:47,375 --> 01:16:49,541
at the site, that would equal maybe 100

485
01:16:49,541 --> 01:16:50,333
people that you

486
01:16:50,333 --> 01:16:51,291
organize at night on the ocean.

487
01:16:51,333 --> 01:16:57,125
We had 15 boats, 20 boats. Yeah, the

488
01:16:57,125 --> 01:16:59,458
other night, I read a report, and I

489
01:16:59,458 --> 01:17:01,458
actually took a picture of one situation

490
01:17:01,458 --> 01:17:04,166
back in 2013. So it's 12 years ago, there

491
01:17:04,166 --> 01:17:06,458
were 30 boats at the site. It was a

492
01:17:06,458 --> 01:17:08,875
winter night, where this when when the

493
01:17:08,875 --> 01:17:11,791
swell create big waves that crash into

494
01:17:11,791 --> 01:17:15,416
the shoreline. Everything happening was,

495
01:17:15,791 --> 01:17:17,291
I don't know, 4500 people in the water.

496
01:17:18,291 --> 01:17:22,208
Yeah, it was just visually it's like it's

497
01:17:22,208 --> 01:17:24,791
just too many people and too many boats,

498
01:17:25,208 --> 01:17:27,166
too many risks, too many hazards, you

499
01:17:27,166 --> 01:17:30,041
know, and actually then not not just I

500
01:17:30,041 --> 01:17:31,208
mean, there were a lot of complaints

501
01:17:31,208 --> 01:17:32,750
between the groups and you

502
01:17:32,750 --> 01:17:33,291
know, of course, imagine.

503
01:17:33,333 --> 01:17:37,125
We also think about safety for divers to

504
01:17:37,125 --> 01:17:39,208
write 400, 500 people, it's hard to keep

505
01:17:39,208 --> 01:17:40,833
like even for a dive master or a dive

506
01:17:40,833 --> 01:17:43,458
instructor to keep an eye on that many

507
01:17:43,458 --> 01:17:45,000
people when there's so many other people

508
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,458
like people probably running into each

509
01:17:46,458 --> 01:17:47,916
other and so forth, right?

510
01:17:48,708 --> 01:17:50,333
Yeah, and you can do everything right.

511
01:17:50,333 --> 01:17:53,500
And we had since the 90s participant

512
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:57,333
guidelines, you know, don't touch the

513
01:17:57,333 --> 01:17:59,500
mannerizes a really big one. Of course,

514
01:17:59,500 --> 01:18:00,958
interfere with the animals just that you

515
01:18:00,958 --> 01:18:02,291
eat. Don't touch it, right?

516
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:06,166
And some other ones and most people just

517
01:18:06,166 --> 01:18:10,708
put followed that as well. But then it

518
01:18:10,708 --> 01:18:12,375
was really important that the operators

519
01:18:12,375 --> 01:18:14,791
get together and create standards as

520
01:18:14,791 --> 01:18:17,583
well. And that was prompted because the

521
01:18:17,583 --> 01:18:18,500
federal government

522
01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:19,958
that's the Coast Guard.

523
01:18:20,583 --> 01:18:24,041
And in our statewide is called Department

524
01:18:24,041 --> 01:18:26,583
of Land and Natural Resources. They

525
01:18:26,583 --> 01:18:28,500
called meeting in 2012. And I said, you

526
01:18:28,500 --> 01:18:30,875
guys, all the stakeholders here in this

527
01:18:30,875 --> 01:18:32,958
meeting, you have to figure out how to do

528
01:18:32,958 --> 01:18:34,500
this right. So we

529
01:18:34,500 --> 01:18:35,583
don't get too many reports.

530
01:18:37,041 --> 01:18:39,541
And then it was mandated, you know, it's

531
01:18:39,541 --> 01:18:42,000
not come up with operator standards. But

532
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,250
unfortunately, they're all still

533
01:18:43,250 --> 01:18:46,125
voluntarily, you know, and we and then

534
01:18:46,125 --> 01:18:48,833
people came together. It was the

535
01:18:48,833 --> 01:18:53,083
beginning of 2013, from January to April,

536
01:18:53,083 --> 01:18:54,041
like a three, four months.

537
01:18:55,791 --> 01:18:59,000
And we created a document and six pages

538
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:00,833
and it tells you how to do a good manner.

539
01:19:00,833 --> 01:19:02,500
I dive as an operator, including the

540
01:19:02,500 --> 01:19:04,208
participants and stuff like this. Yeah,

541
01:19:04,208 --> 01:19:06,125
sounds all really good, right? But then

542
01:19:06,125 --> 01:19:08,958
when people leave the room, operators,

543
01:19:09,125 --> 01:19:11,208
owners of both companies leave the room,

544
01:19:11,208 --> 01:19:13,041
they said, it's a general agreement.

545
01:19:13,333 --> 01:19:17,500
I'm not a gentleman. Right. Okay. Yeah,

546
01:19:17,708 --> 01:19:20,875
that's when really, it got tricky at the

547
01:19:20,875 --> 01:19:25,416
sites, highly risk, you know, that's why

548
01:19:25,416 --> 01:19:29,166
the downslide happened where it was not

549
01:19:29,166 --> 01:19:32,125
about working together when when it comes

550
01:19:32,125 --> 01:19:34,833
to the place where losing the environment

551
01:19:34,833 --> 01:19:36,500
was losing, mannerize were losing

552
01:19:36,500 --> 01:19:39,333
tourists was losing an

553
01:19:39,333 --> 01:19:40,833
operator, I believe loses too.

554
01:19:41,500 --> 01:19:44,166
But I always think of the tourists then

555
01:19:44,166 --> 01:19:46,583
to it's almost a victimized situation

556
01:19:46,583 --> 01:19:48,666
because you sign up, you know, the first

557
01:19:48,666 --> 01:19:50,083
10 minutes I talked is like the best

558
01:19:50,083 --> 01:19:52,958
thing ever. But at the same time, you are

559
01:19:52,958 --> 01:19:54,416
in a position that you really need to

560
01:19:54,416 --> 01:19:55,458
know who you go with.

561
01:19:56,125 --> 01:19:58,250
Yeah. And that has safety standards. And

562
01:19:58,250 --> 01:20:00,375
again, as you go to the two sides that

563
01:20:00,375 --> 01:20:02,958
are original sites, you can do everything

564
01:20:02,958 --> 01:20:05,541
right and still something goes wrong. So

565
01:20:05,541 --> 01:20:09,000
this is tricky. And everything is

566
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:10,291
heightened because it's at night, you know, it's not a good thing.

567
01:20:10,333 --> 01:20:18,333
Yeah. So in the past, were there operator

568
01:20:18,333 --> 01:20:21,125
licenses given out for specific for

569
01:20:21,125 --> 01:20:22,625
mannerize? Or was it just because there

570
01:20:22,625 --> 01:20:24,000
were not enough that they didn't have to

571
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,333
worry about? Like there was never enough

572
01:20:25,333 --> 01:20:26,291
to be concerned about it?

573
01:20:27,291 --> 01:20:30,833
Exactly. I just slowly started. And then

574
01:20:30,833 --> 01:20:33,458
there was a phase where the Department of

575
01:20:33,458 --> 01:20:35,375
Land and Natural Resources, short from

576
01:20:35,375 --> 01:20:39,333
the LNR, they had a moratorium on permits

577
01:20:39,333 --> 01:20:41,125
for this particular harbor that most

578
01:20:41,125 --> 01:20:42,583
people most boats and the

579
01:20:42,583 --> 01:20:43,791
farm, it's called Honoka'au.

580
01:20:44,333 --> 01:20:46,541
And the other one is called Ke'auho,

581
01:20:46,791 --> 01:20:48,958
which is even smaller than Honoka'au.

582
01:20:49,958 --> 01:20:52,500
There was a moratorium on permits, but

583
01:20:52,500 --> 01:20:55,166
that was challenged in court. And so

584
01:20:55,166 --> 01:20:57,458
there had to be more permits go out, you

585
01:20:57,458 --> 01:21:00,916
know, and then but you know, Honoka'au

586
01:21:00,916 --> 01:21:02,333
harbor is also an interesting harbor

587
01:21:02,333 --> 01:21:04,416
because the one side of the harbor is the

588
01:21:04,416 --> 01:21:06,250
recreational, ocean recreation

589
01:21:06,250 --> 01:21:09,791
businesses, snorkeling, diving, sunset,

590
01:21:10,083 --> 01:21:10,625
something like this.

591
01:21:11,291 --> 01:21:12,500
Yeah, the other side is the fishing

592
01:21:12,500 --> 01:21:15,000
industry. This in itself, when your

593
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,083
conservation is already crashes, because

594
01:21:17,083 --> 01:21:20,833
this is keeping that fish alive. It's

595
01:21:20,833 --> 01:21:23,416
killer fish, right? But fishing companies

596
01:21:23,416 --> 01:21:26,791
said, I don't make enough of a living on

597
01:21:26,791 --> 01:21:29,833
the fishing tours. It's the manner it is

598
01:21:29,833 --> 01:21:31,583
too, you know, and then you have this in

599
01:21:31,583 --> 01:21:33,208
a mingle of very

600
01:21:33,208 --> 01:21:34,916
different business approaches.

601
01:21:35,291 --> 01:21:37,958
Yeah, all in the mental industry. And

602
01:21:37,958 --> 01:21:41,291
yeah, well, some lot of drama behind the

603
01:21:41,291 --> 01:21:42,875
scenes and that all bubbled

604
01:21:42,875 --> 01:21:44,750
up over the years, you know.

605
01:21:45,333 --> 01:21:46,875
Yeah, I bet you there's a lot. There's

606
01:21:46,875 --> 01:21:48,416
probably a good amount of conflict

607
01:21:48,416 --> 01:21:50,625
between operators now, too, because

608
01:21:50,625 --> 01:21:54,250
there's so many. It's not as calm or is

609
01:21:54,250 --> 01:21:55,916
not as it's probably pretty chaotic when

610
01:21:55,916 --> 01:21:57,458
all those boats get together, you know,

611
01:21:57,458 --> 01:21:59,291
20, 30 boats getting together that that

612
01:21:59,291 --> 01:22:01,291
becomes a little a little worrisome.

613
01:22:01,291 --> 01:22:06,208
Are there any is there any scientists

614
01:22:06,208 --> 01:22:08,583
that are involved in like tracking these

615
01:22:08,583 --> 01:22:10,500
like, are there any like scientific

616
01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:13,083
studies that are being done to track the

617
01:22:13,083 --> 01:22:16,500
increase of the amount of operators and

618
01:22:16,500 --> 01:22:19,625
tour guides as well as the health of of

619
01:22:19,625 --> 01:22:20,291
the stingray or the sorry, manorrhasing?

620
01:22:20,333 --> 01:22:25,500
Yes. So when the state and the federal

621
01:22:25,500 --> 01:22:27,625
government said do something about it.

622
01:22:28,291 --> 01:22:30,208
Someone at the Dylan are actually was our

623
01:22:30,208 --> 01:22:32,583
liaison was a lawyer and she was trying

624
01:22:32,583 --> 01:22:34,500
to also see what we can do with the

625
01:22:34,500 --> 01:22:36,041
operator that volunteer operator

626
01:22:36,041 --> 01:22:36,291
standards and then put it into a whole package.

627
01:22:36,333 --> 01:22:41,000
Because if you really want to tighten

628
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,000
this together, tight this together that

629
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:44,541
you really have to do it this way, not

630
01:22:44,541 --> 01:22:47,333
just voluntarily. That started in I

631
01:22:47,333 --> 01:22:51,166
believe 2014. And in those following two

632
01:22:51,166 --> 01:22:53,833
years, I was involved to a role package

633
01:22:53,833 --> 01:22:56,250
was created. One of the things we said we

634
01:22:56,250 --> 01:22:58,000
have to do the campfire method. It

635
01:22:58,000 --> 01:22:59,291
doesn't matter how you call it. Let's

636
01:22:59,291 --> 01:23:00,291
call it a central viewing area, right?

637
01:23:01,291 --> 01:23:04,250
Yeah, it can fire. Most people can maybe

638
01:23:04,250 --> 01:23:08,583
envision this a little bit, but that sits

639
01:23:08,583 --> 01:23:12,083
in the desks of someone or is being moved

640
01:23:12,083 --> 01:23:14,541
to the next person because that first

641
01:23:14,541 --> 01:23:17,208
lawyer then also she had a child and

642
01:23:17,208 --> 01:23:19,791
moved on. Then the next lawyer came in

643
01:23:19,791 --> 01:23:21,291
had to be come up to speed. Time goes by.

644
01:23:21,333 --> 01:23:23,291
Eventually, you were at the pandemic. Nothing happened there. And then in 2022, a crew member was killed. Oh, wow. Where it was due to the captain being intoxicated, you know, and it's a whole different story. But I feel so bad for everybody involved. You know, of course, now that I'm so critical and speaking about it here on this podcast, I just want people to understand the behind the scenes of the

645
01:23:51,333 --> 01:23:55,666
stuff too, right? This is not all good

646
01:23:55,666 --> 01:23:58,791
here, right? No, and in this case, it got

647
01:23:58,791 --> 01:24:01,208
really, really bad, you know, and that's

648
01:24:01,208 --> 01:24:03,166
when the LNR kind of said, Okay, we have

649
01:24:03,166 --> 01:24:05,208
to move forward. That rule package that

650
01:24:05,208 --> 01:24:07,708
lays around for a long time, the drafts.

651
01:24:08,750 --> 01:24:10,125
And there was a little movement that was

652
01:24:10,125 --> 01:24:11,583
actually a public hearing. I think it's

653
01:24:11,583 --> 01:24:13,708
now two years old that the last public

654
01:24:13,708 --> 01:24:16,416
hearing took place. Yeah, nothing

655
01:24:16,416 --> 01:24:18,666
happened. I think there's maybe something

656
01:24:18,666 --> 01:24:19,750
behind in the legislator,

657
01:24:19,750 --> 01:24:20,291
they need to have some law.

658
01:24:21,291 --> 01:24:22,375
And I think that the laws changed. So the

659
01:24:22,375 --> 01:24:24,666
day on earth's hands are really tight to

660
01:24:24,666 --> 01:24:28,791
do certain right it right it up. But that

661
01:24:28,791 --> 01:24:30,958
doesn't help anybody. I mean, the win win

662
01:24:30,958 --> 01:24:34,208
is lost. More and more loose is in the

663
01:24:34,208 --> 01:24:36,041
situation. And I believe still people

664
01:24:36,041 --> 01:24:37,500
today can have a really good mental

665
01:24:37,500 --> 01:24:42,875
experience. But it's diminished. And I

666
01:24:42,875 --> 01:24:44,916
wish I wish to move forward with this

667
01:24:44,916 --> 01:24:48,000
whole process of regulating the industry.

668
01:24:48,333 --> 01:24:49,500
I mean, obviously, it sounds like

669
01:24:49,500 --> 01:24:50,833
regulation needs to be done on all

670
01:24:50,833 --> 01:24:53,250
fronts, not just on on the man array

671
01:24:53,250 --> 01:24:55,958
fronts, but also on the safety, not only

672
01:24:55,958 --> 01:24:57,958
for the crew, but also for the tourists.

673
01:24:58,625 --> 01:24:59,958
You know, you don't you don't want to

674
01:24:59,958 --> 01:25:02,041
ever see anybody getting hurt, God

675
01:25:02,041 --> 01:25:03,833
forbid, you know, passing away, just like

676
01:25:03,833 --> 01:25:05,750
we saw, just like you just let us know.

677
01:25:06,333 --> 01:25:07,750
And that's not how this this is supposed

678
01:25:07,750 --> 01:25:09,666
to go. And obviously, accidents happen

679
01:25:09,666 --> 01:25:11,625
and they're, you know, from whoever's

680
01:25:11,625 --> 01:25:14,958
mistake, but you want to make sure that

681
01:25:14,958 --> 01:25:16,583
that doesn't happen. And there's

682
01:25:16,583 --> 01:25:18,833
regulations to do that to protect people

683
01:25:18,833 --> 01:25:21,083
from that, especially tourists, as you as

684
01:25:21,083 --> 01:25:22,625
you say, like, you know, people are going

685
01:25:22,625 --> 01:25:23,750
to Hawaii, they want to

686
01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:25,000
get in touch with nature.

687
01:25:25,333 --> 01:25:27,916
And so it's a perfect place to do it. You

688
01:25:27,916 --> 01:25:29,166
know, they hear about these man array

689
01:25:29,166 --> 01:25:32,000
dives, you know, when people go diving or

690
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:33,458
snorkeling, that's what they're there to

691
01:25:33,458 --> 01:25:35,250
do. That's what they want to do. And they

692
01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:37,375
don't want to be taken for not

693
01:25:37,375 --> 01:25:39,250
necessarily money without seeing it, but

694
01:25:39,250 --> 01:25:41,208
also just having, you know, a couple

695
01:25:41,208 --> 01:25:42,000
hundred people there.

696
01:25:42,333 --> 01:25:43,458
And so you're not getting that same

697
01:25:43,458 --> 01:25:45,791
experience as you know, you were told and

698
01:25:45,791 --> 01:25:47,208
stuff. And so you want to make sure that

699
01:25:47,208 --> 01:25:49,208
you're, you know, there should be limits

700
01:25:49,208 --> 01:25:50,500
on the number of people that

701
01:25:50,500 --> 01:25:52,541
are out of time and all this.

702
01:25:53,666 --> 01:25:59,333
So, so how would you recommend this

703
01:25:59,333 --> 01:26:01,083
regulation be pushed

704
01:26:01,083 --> 01:26:03,500
forward from a policy standpoint?

705
01:26:06,291 --> 01:26:08,416
Someone contacted me that was a student

706
01:26:08,416 --> 01:26:12,000
from the University of Hawaii, a law

707
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:15,125
student, and she said, Earth Justice was

708
01:26:15,125 --> 01:26:17,416
looking at maybe doing something. I'm not

709
01:26:17,416 --> 01:26:19,666
sure how far it went to Earth Justice,

710
01:26:19,666 --> 01:26:21,000
but I guess a professor was involved.

711
01:26:21,291 --> 01:26:23,208
They were trying to do something that as

712
01:26:23,208 --> 01:26:25,041
a lawsuit against the state of Hawaii

713
01:26:25,041 --> 01:26:28,208
based on safety of the public. Right. And

714
01:26:28,208 --> 01:26:30,416
of course, I had lots of information

715
01:26:30,416 --> 01:26:32,791
because if you if you talk to me about

716
01:26:32,791 --> 01:26:34,291
man race and everything that's involved

717
01:26:34,291 --> 01:26:35,291
in it, it's like pushing a button.

718
01:26:35,333 --> 01:26:39,375
I have so much information and I really

719
01:26:39,375 --> 01:26:41,250
like to disseminate that information to

720
01:26:41,250 --> 01:26:43,750
write people. So things could happen, you

721
01:26:43,750 --> 01:26:46,333
know. So in this particular lawsuit, she

722
01:26:46,333 --> 01:26:48,333
set up a framework, what could be done.

723
01:26:48,791 --> 01:26:50,458
And then I didn't hear from her again.

724
01:26:51,041 --> 01:26:52,916
So that could be one venue that the state

725
01:26:52,916 --> 01:26:55,000
of Hawaii is being put on notice. And,

726
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:56,416
you know, interesting enough that nobody

727
01:26:56,416 --> 01:26:57,708
remembers that. Most

728
01:26:57,708 --> 01:26:58,291
people just don't remember that.

729
01:26:59,291 --> 01:27:00,875
The House of Representatives for the

730
01:27:00,875 --> 01:27:03,333
state of Hawaii in 2013 had a resolution

731
01:27:03,333 --> 01:27:06,625
where it already said this is a dangerous

732
01:27:06,625 --> 01:27:08,875
place. You can look it up

733
01:27:08,875 --> 01:27:10,541
on our nonprofit website.

734
01:27:11,750 --> 01:27:13,583
I tried to put the nonprofit website into

735
01:27:13,583 --> 01:27:15,250
a place where it's like telling a history

736
01:27:15,250 --> 01:27:17,541
of what happened already. You know,

737
01:27:17,916 --> 01:27:19,958
earlier, were there any studies being

738
01:27:19,958 --> 01:27:21,291
done? There has been risk assessments.

739
01:27:21,333 --> 01:27:24,125
The risk assessment said it's not just a

740
01:27:24,125 --> 01:27:25,916
matter of if something happens, it's when

741
01:27:25,916 --> 01:27:28,458
something happens when. Yeah. Yeah. More

742
01:27:28,458 --> 01:27:30,250
studies have been done in 2020. A really

743
01:27:30,250 --> 01:27:33,875
nice lady, Kirsten Moy. She did an

744
01:27:33,875 --> 01:27:35,916
incredible extensive interviews of

745
01:27:35,916 --> 01:27:38,791
stakeholders and put together a study.

746
01:27:39,125 --> 01:27:41,458
It's all done. You know, it's just a

747
01:27:41,458 --> 01:27:44,125
matter of making that push forward. But

748
01:27:44,125 --> 01:27:48,416
maybe people do other things right now

749
01:27:48,416 --> 01:27:50,291
because the world is so crazy in the first place.

750
01:27:51,333 --> 01:27:54,500
Right. But I feel like for the men race

751
01:27:54,500 --> 01:27:57,708
and for us as humans to come back to

752
01:27:57,708 --> 01:27:59,250
nature, it's one of the most important

753
01:27:59,250 --> 01:28:01,375
things, you know, for 10 years, we have

754
01:28:01,375 --> 01:28:04,000
now all our phones and more generations

755
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,416
are coming up with more phone usage.

756
01:28:06,791 --> 01:28:08,916
And, you know, it's this I think in

757
01:28:08,916 --> 01:28:10,458
English you say that, you know, once in a

758
01:28:10,458 --> 01:28:12,208
while touch grass, right? Just go outside

759
01:28:12,208 --> 01:28:14,541
and touch the grass, you know. And of

760
01:28:14,541 --> 01:28:15,500
course, when you do the men or

761
01:28:15,500 --> 01:28:18,958
experience, it's something really special

762
01:28:18,958 --> 01:28:20,291
because at night, big food,

763
01:28:20,333 --> 01:28:23,583
night, big fish, harmless and I said

764
01:28:23,583 --> 01:28:25,666
earlier, you know, from within 40 30 to

765
01:28:25,666 --> 01:28:28,541
45 minutes. Actually, you mentioned it

766
01:28:28,541 --> 01:28:30,458
also to you have preconceived ideas can

767
01:28:30,458 --> 01:28:32,375
only be bad what's out there. And then

768
01:28:32,375 --> 01:28:34,041
you come out of the world. You can like,

769
01:28:34,041 --> 01:28:35,500
that's the best thing I've ever done in

770
01:28:35,500 --> 01:28:37,791
my life. So yeah, I get these people

771
01:28:37,791 --> 01:28:40,916
closer back to nature and make better

772
01:28:40,916 --> 01:28:43,541
decisions for your future and future of

773
01:28:43,541 --> 01:28:46,125
your kids and everything where we can

774
01:28:46,125 --> 01:28:47,041
keep the environment

775
01:28:47,041 --> 01:28:49,291
intact and keep the memories.

776
01:28:50,333 --> 01:28:52,000
Going for another, I don't know how many

777
01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:54,458
millions of years, right? Yeah, they're

778
01:28:54,458 --> 01:28:57,833
vulnerable because men race have a very

779
01:28:57,833 --> 01:29:00,083
slow reproductive rate, you know, it

780
01:29:00,083 --> 01:29:02,666
takes 30 12 to 13 months to have one pop,

781
01:29:03,041 --> 01:29:05,083
you know, it's 10 to 15 years to be

782
01:29:05,083 --> 01:29:08,458
section mature, one pop at a time, you

783
01:29:08,458 --> 01:29:11,000
know, and males have to go around every

784
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,333
two or four years and maybe have a have a

785
01:29:13,333 --> 01:29:16,083
pop, you know, there's, you, it's a

786
01:29:16,083 --> 01:29:16,833
species where we have

787
01:29:16,833 --> 01:29:18,791
to be very careful about.

788
01:29:19,291 --> 01:29:22,250
So, yeah, and I mean, like we, you know,

789
01:29:22,250 --> 01:29:24,125
we've been focusing a lot on the tour

790
01:29:24,125 --> 01:29:26,541
operations itself and people not having a

791
01:29:26,541 --> 01:29:28,458
good time or being too chaotic, but we

792
01:29:28,458 --> 01:29:30,333
do, you know, the main thing, the reason

793
01:29:30,333 --> 01:29:32,333
why everybody's there is for these manner

794
01:29:32,333 --> 01:29:34,416
race and, and, and for the point that

795
01:29:34,416 --> 01:29:36,708
there, even though the foods there,

796
01:29:36,708 --> 01:29:38,208
eventually, the manorize may not want to

797
01:29:38,208 --> 01:29:40,166
come back because it's too chaotic, maybe

798
01:29:40,166 --> 01:29:41,166
they're not, you know, even though

799
01:29:41,166 --> 01:29:42,833
they're used to people, they may go

800
01:29:42,833 --> 01:29:43,750
decide going somewhere

801
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:44,750
else, they may get hurt.

802
01:29:45,291 --> 01:29:47,583
And, you know, propeller, you know,

803
01:29:47,750 --> 01:29:48,916
accidents happen, not to say that

804
01:29:48,916 --> 01:29:50,208
anybody's doing it on purpose, but when

805
01:29:50,208 --> 01:29:51,708
you have that many people in one area,

806
01:29:52,166 --> 01:29:53,625
things can happen to the manorize as

807
01:29:53,625 --> 01:29:55,458
well. And if you, you know, if you damage

808
01:29:55,458 --> 01:29:57,916
them more, and they, you know, they don't

809
01:29:57,916 --> 01:30:00,125
survive, then that could be a big problem

810
01:30:00,125 --> 01:30:01,500
in the future, not only for the business,

811
01:30:01,500 --> 01:30:02,500
but just for the manorize

812
01:30:02,500 --> 01:30:03,541
themselves and their conservation.

813
01:30:04,291 --> 01:30:06,000
Now you, you have this, you know, you

814
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,416
have Manor a advocates as a for profit

815
01:30:08,416 --> 01:30:11,000
business, and then you started a

816
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:14,166
nonprofit business called Hawaii Ocean

817
01:30:14,166 --> 01:30:16,875
Watch. Now, was it because of what you

818
01:30:16,875 --> 01:30:20,541
were seeing the growth, the slow growth,

819
01:30:20,541 --> 01:30:22,750
or even just where, where the industry is

820
01:30:22,750 --> 01:30:24,500
at today in terms of tour operators and

821
01:30:24,500 --> 01:30:26,958
manner race? Or was it other things that

822
01:30:26,958 --> 01:30:27,791
were involved as well?

823
01:30:29,083 --> 01:30:30,625
Yeah, so I'm gonna put a little bit of my

824
01:30:30,625 --> 01:30:32,416
business cap now, because at the same

825
01:30:32,416 --> 01:30:34,125
time as a top or your business person,

826
01:30:34,125 --> 01:30:36,541
right? Of course. Yeah. And especially if

827
01:30:36,541 --> 01:30:39,458
in such a unique niche for a tour

828
01:30:39,458 --> 01:30:42,208
operator, you know, it's like, I only

829
01:30:42,208 --> 01:30:44,083
have one product, it's looking at

830
01:30:44,083 --> 01:30:45,291
mannerize, you know. Yeah.

831
01:30:45,333 --> 01:30:51,416
So, so the Hawaii Ocean Watch was formed

832
01:30:51,416 --> 01:30:55,333
in 2015. Remember, I said 2012, the state

833
01:30:55,333 --> 01:30:57,541
and effect said, Hey, come up with some,

834
01:30:57,750 --> 01:31:01,250
some voluntary standards, you know, abide

835
01:31:01,250 --> 01:31:03,250
by them. And we as a group as a camera

836
01:31:03,250 --> 01:31:05,125
program, at that point, I had my husband,

837
01:31:05,125 --> 01:31:07,250
myself and someone else filming almost

838
01:31:07,250 --> 01:31:08,166
every night on these

839
01:31:08,166 --> 01:31:09,291
two locations that we had.

840
01:31:09,291 --> 01:31:12,416
And we saw what the operators were doing,

841
01:31:12,833 --> 01:31:15,500
we could say, Hey, we've jokingly started

842
01:31:15,500 --> 01:31:17,375
out, we said, we should make a blacklist

843
01:31:17,375 --> 01:31:19,041
of the people that are not doing what the

844
01:31:19,041 --> 01:31:22,500
operators said, but of course, from a

845
01:31:22,500 --> 01:31:24,541
branding point, it's much better, much

846
01:31:24,541 --> 01:31:26,333
better if you say, let's create a green

847
01:31:26,333 --> 01:31:27,125
list of the folks

848
01:31:27,125 --> 01:31:27,291
that do the right thing.

849
01:31:27,291 --> 01:31:31,458
Yes. Right. Yeah. And so while we were

850
01:31:31,458 --> 01:31:33,000
branded to Manner Advocates, it was the

851
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,125
effort of like, we're gonna brand this

852
01:31:35,125 --> 01:31:36,875
green list of activity providers under

853
01:31:36,875 --> 01:31:38,458
the Manner Advocates, you know, all

854
01:31:38,458 --> 01:31:42,583
within the same year. But it was

855
01:31:42,583 --> 01:31:45,791
straining us as business a lot, you know,

856
01:31:45,791 --> 01:31:47,416
we were doing so many things for the

857
01:31:47,416 --> 01:31:49,583
nonprofit work, where the for profit

858
01:31:49,583 --> 01:31:53,000
company just, I was just, I mean, really

859
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:55,000
financially diet, of course, you know,

860
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:56,291
health issues, all kinds of things happening.

861
01:31:56,291 --> 01:32:00,250
And for us, as a solution was like, we

862
01:32:00,250 --> 01:32:02,083
have to bring this green list to a

863
01:32:02,083 --> 01:32:05,083
nonprofit concept, you know, and what

864
01:32:05,083 --> 01:32:07,250
does it mean? Well, you sign up for

865
01:32:07,250 --> 01:32:09,000
501c3. That's, of course, lots of

866
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:12,333
paperwork, but you mentioned all kinds of

867
01:32:12,333 --> 01:32:15,250
things to do. But we felt like the green

868
01:32:15,250 --> 01:32:16,708
list of activity providers had a much

869
01:32:16,708 --> 01:32:17,291
better place on the nonprofit level.

870
01:32:17,291 --> 01:32:21,083
So we could separate those two

871
01:32:21,083 --> 01:32:25,500
businesses. And the green list lived

872
01:32:25,500 --> 01:32:27,166
there for a long time, and it's still

873
01:32:27,166 --> 01:32:31,125
there. But for the longest time, I was

874
01:32:31,125 --> 01:32:33,375
comfortable saying these companies trying

875
01:32:33,375 --> 01:32:36,666
the best and abide by those, adhere to

876
01:32:36,666 --> 01:32:38,958
those voluntary standards. But it's about

877
01:32:38,958 --> 01:32:40,291
two years now that I took it down while you still find the page.

878
01:32:40,333 --> 01:32:46,208
Yeah, I came up with five questions. I'm

879
01:32:46,208 --> 01:32:48,833
saying, asked five questions when you

880
01:32:48,833 --> 01:32:51,875
sign up because we're good heart, good

881
01:32:51,875 --> 01:32:54,416
conscious, I cannot say anymore who's

882
01:32:54,416 --> 01:32:56,625
doing the right things. Not that they

883
01:32:56,625 --> 01:32:58,458
don't want to do it. But with 60

884
01:32:58,458 --> 01:33:00,500
operators, it's a jungle for the customer

885
01:33:00,500 --> 01:33:01,291
to find the right company. Right.

886
01:33:01,291 --> 01:33:07,375
And I got some feedback, I think, you

887
01:33:07,375 --> 01:33:09,166
know, also from the web links that you

888
01:33:09,166 --> 01:33:10,958
have to the green list, I didn't want to

889
01:33:10,958 --> 01:33:13,291
lose them was a good solution, I believe,

890
01:33:14,125 --> 01:33:17,125
still trying to help the customer coming

891
01:33:17,125 --> 01:33:19,291
to the islands. And we have guests quite

892
01:33:19,291 --> 01:33:21,541
often that say I came on to the big

893
01:33:21,541 --> 01:33:23,458
island only for the manner is, you know,

894
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:26,333
it hurts me hurts my heart if I hear

895
01:33:26,333 --> 01:33:29,000
that, and they would not be able to get

896
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:30,291
the best out of this, you know, of course, because I think that's a good solution.

897
01:33:30,291 --> 01:33:31,833
You know, of course, because I know how

898
01:33:31,833 --> 01:33:34,250
good of an experience it can be for

899
01:33:34,250 --> 01:33:36,208
people and how people see the world

900
01:33:36,208 --> 01:33:37,916
actually differently afterwards, you

901
01:33:37,916 --> 01:33:40,833
know, in their life, maybe. So yeah, I

902
01:33:40,833 --> 01:33:42,125
just maybe tell you a quick

903
01:33:42,125 --> 01:33:43,291
story. I will have a lady.

904
01:33:44,333 --> 01:33:46,250
She came to me years ago, and she was

905
01:33:46,250 --> 01:33:48,541
super nervous when she was going into the

906
01:33:48,541 --> 01:33:50,500
water. And maybe you can see that but I

907
01:33:50,500 --> 01:33:53,125
have this necklace with a manor on it.

908
01:33:53,125 --> 01:33:57,666
Yeah. And it took place. She succeeded

909
01:33:57,666 --> 01:33:59,791
was a great night. And then later I get

910
01:33:59,791 --> 01:34:01,291
an email and she said, you know what,

911
01:34:01,750 --> 01:34:05,041
this mental experience was so impactful

912
01:34:05,041 --> 01:34:06,125
on me, I bought myself

913
01:34:06,125 --> 01:34:07,958
also a manor necklace.

914
01:34:08,333 --> 01:34:10,625
And because she felt so much courage

915
01:34:10,625 --> 01:34:12,333
afterwards, what you can accomplish,

916
01:34:12,666 --> 01:34:14,625
although she had so much anxiety before

917
01:34:14,625 --> 01:34:17,333
or intimidation before accomplishment

918
01:34:17,333 --> 01:34:19,583
after she said whenever she has today a

919
01:34:19,583 --> 01:34:21,416
bad experience, or she's nervous about

920
01:34:21,416 --> 01:34:22,916
some, she doesn't know what's going on.

921
01:34:23,166 --> 01:34:25,666
She touches a manor a and knows you can

922
01:34:25,666 --> 01:34:28,000
do it. And I mean, I'm always like

923
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,375
choking up here, but this is the work

924
01:34:30,375 --> 01:34:32,708
that can be done through nature

925
01:34:32,708 --> 01:34:35,916
experiences where people carry themselves

926
01:34:35,916 --> 01:34:37,291
differently afterwards.

927
01:34:37,291 --> 01:34:40,208
And I have lots of stories like that, you

928
01:34:40,208 --> 01:34:43,208
know, but of course, these stories stick

929
01:34:43,208 --> 01:34:45,916
with me. And I wish that for so many

930
01:34:45,916 --> 01:34:47,583
people, I wish I could tell everybody a

931
01:34:47,583 --> 01:34:49,250
show man everybody the manners, but

932
01:34:49,250 --> 01:34:51,708
obviously, it's not working, you know, to

933
01:34:51,708 --> 01:34:55,125
write only three locations on the

934
01:34:55,125 --> 01:34:57,500
coastline and there's a limit of how many

935
01:34:57,500 --> 01:34:58,500
people you can have in a

936
01:34:58,500 --> 01:35:00,250
space at night in the ocean.

937
01:35:00,333 --> 01:35:05,583
And yeah, so that's really interesting.

938
01:35:05,791 --> 01:35:06,833
Now, I just want to go over some of the

939
01:35:06,833 --> 01:35:08,083
questions that people can ask because

940
01:35:08,083 --> 01:35:09,750
some of the people here that are in our

941
01:35:09,750 --> 01:35:12,583
audience, you know, they want to, they

942
01:35:12,583 --> 01:35:14,041
probably want to participate in something

943
01:35:14,041 --> 01:35:15,125
like this, but they want to make sure

944
01:35:15,125 --> 01:35:16,666
they're getting the right to operator.

945
01:35:17,166 --> 01:35:18,375
So maybe we can go through each of the

946
01:35:18,375 --> 01:35:19,958
questions. So the first one was, which

947
01:35:19,958 --> 01:35:22,083
man of viewing site do you go to? So

948
01:35:22,083 --> 01:35:23,666
which is the better one? And which is the

949
01:35:23,666 --> 01:35:25,625
ones that are less safe,

950
01:35:25,625 --> 01:35:26,291
I guess, or more unsafe?

951
01:35:26,333 --> 01:35:30,166
So it's three locations on the coastline.

952
01:35:30,666 --> 01:35:34,041
The southern one is in the me say south,

953
01:35:34,041 --> 01:35:35,750
it's really when you look at the map,

954
01:35:35,750 --> 01:35:37,958
it's south, it's called a mental village.

955
01:35:37,958 --> 01:35:41,208
It's in care home. It's spelling is

956
01:35:41,208 --> 01:35:42,291
Hawaiian spelling. Yeah, yeah.

957
01:35:42,291 --> 01:35:47,541
The other one is by the airport, which is

958
01:35:47,541 --> 01:35:49,291
the corner airport, and it's called

959
01:35:49,291 --> 01:35:52,291
mental heaven. It's a nickname, you know,

960
01:35:52,291 --> 01:35:55,125
so yeah. And then the third location is

961
01:35:55,125 --> 01:35:56,708
further north, it's called mentor point.

962
01:35:57,500 --> 01:35:59,416
But the access to that from from the

963
01:35:59,416 --> 01:36:02,500
shoreline is private, you would take the

964
01:36:02,500 --> 01:36:04,458
only three boat companies that can work

965
01:36:04,458 --> 01:36:07,500
up there because they are limited by by

966
01:36:07,500 --> 01:36:08,291
permits up there to you know, so.

967
01:36:08,291 --> 01:36:14,291
So that would be the coastline. When you

968
01:36:14,291 --> 01:36:18,083
think of safety, I think dive companies

969
01:36:18,083 --> 01:36:21,458
still have the safest record versus

970
01:36:21,458 --> 01:36:24,625
companies that solely do snorkeling. And

971
01:36:24,625 --> 01:36:28,000
I say that as that companies have to have

972
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:30,166
dive masters, they are professionals, and

973
01:36:30,166 --> 01:36:32,375
they have better training versus a

974
01:36:32,375 --> 01:36:35,541
company that only does snorkeling. And I

975
01:36:35,541 --> 01:36:37,291
don't want to say anything about it.

976
01:36:37,333 --> 01:36:39,250
Say anything about anybody right now. I'm

977
01:36:39,250 --> 01:36:41,583
just, in general, it's a transient

978
01:36:41,583 --> 01:36:44,416
workforce. People come here to live their

979
01:36:44,416 --> 01:36:47,625
dream, come here for six months and maybe

980
01:36:47,625 --> 01:36:49,791
then they leave because they cannot make

981
01:36:49,791 --> 01:36:51,875
it an expensive place to live. Yeah. So

982
01:36:51,875 --> 01:36:53,583
it's hard to build expertise in that

983
01:36:53,583 --> 01:36:56,041
experience, right? Over time, as you have

984
01:36:56,041 --> 01:36:57,958
like your outfit, probably like 20 some

985
01:36:57,958 --> 01:36:59,000
odd years, you know.

986
01:36:59,291 --> 01:37:02,291
Yeah, yeah, I drill down on my crew and

987
01:37:02,291 --> 01:37:05,333
what's really important, you know, so I

988
01:37:05,333 --> 01:37:10,333
train them well. Now, on the so when

989
01:37:10,333 --> 01:37:13,333
people asked, so what should I choose? If

990
01:37:13,333 --> 01:37:16,666
you Google, mentor experience and then

991
01:37:16,666 --> 01:37:18,583
dive store, you know, I think you would

992
01:37:18,583 --> 01:37:22,166
find companies that just have more

993
01:37:22,166 --> 01:37:25,291
trained crew versus someone who doesn't.

994
01:37:25,291 --> 01:37:28,750
For sure. For sure. Of course, as always,

995
01:37:28,750 --> 01:37:29,958
someone who could say, yeah, this company

996
01:37:29,958 --> 01:37:31,625
or this company, but you know, I think

997
01:37:31,625 --> 01:37:33,666
that's a general rule. Yeah, most people

998
01:37:33,666 --> 01:37:35,916
just don't know much about an ocean

999
01:37:35,916 --> 01:37:39,625
recreation industry. Of course. Yeah, no,

1000
01:37:39,625 --> 01:37:40,500
that definitely makes sense.

1001
01:37:40,958 --> 01:37:42,000
All right. The second question is, does

1002
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:43,750
the boat stay at the site or if and if

1003
01:37:43,750 --> 01:37:46,250
so, how? So why is that important to know

1004
01:37:46,250 --> 01:37:47,291
how they stay at the site?

1005
01:37:47,333 --> 01:37:52,375
Yeah, so boats just to create this lit up

1006
01:37:52,375 --> 01:37:55,208
area, you know, the boats are supposed to

1007
01:37:55,208 --> 01:37:58,791
stay where they park and so the people

1008
01:37:58,791 --> 01:38:00,208
get into the water and out of the water

1009
01:38:00,208 --> 01:38:01,833
and your guide would always know where

1010
01:38:01,833 --> 01:38:04,333
the boat is. That's the ideal situation.

1011
01:38:05,208 --> 01:38:08,083
And on this coastline, we have mooring

1012
01:38:08,083 --> 01:38:13,000
system. A mooring ball is we, well, I say

1013
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:15,166
we, but the coastline is set up with

1014
01:38:15,166 --> 01:38:16,291
subsurface mooring balls. It's actually a

1015
01:38:16,291 --> 01:38:20,250
big buoy, right? As a chain that goes

1016
01:38:20,250 --> 01:38:22,125
down to the bottom of the ocean and on

1017
01:38:22,125 --> 01:38:24,333
the top of the buoy is a little hole like

1018
01:38:24,333 --> 01:38:26,291
an eye. And so when a boat captain drives

1019
01:38:26,291 --> 01:38:29,541
the boat up to that mooring, you would as

1020
01:38:29,541 --> 01:38:31,000
a crew, you jump in and you tie up the

1021
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,166
boat through that eye. Yeah, that's just

1022
01:38:33,166 --> 01:38:35,708
the best situation because the mooring

1023
01:38:35,708 --> 01:38:37,791
ball holds the boat in place. Engines are

1024
01:38:37,791 --> 01:38:39,416
off. You don't have to worry about much

1025
01:38:39,416 --> 01:38:40,875
other than as a captain, you have to

1026
01:38:40,875 --> 01:38:43,958
watch for the winds, how you swim. Of

1027
01:38:43,958 --> 01:38:45,291
course. Yeah. And the, it's a good thing.

1028
01:38:45,333 --> 01:38:48,500
And the activity by in Ke'ahu,

1029
01:38:48,916 --> 01:38:50,875
unfortunately, I have only four moorings.

1030
01:38:51,291 --> 01:38:52,583
That's one of the things that we tell the

1031
01:38:52,583 --> 01:38:54,875
state we need more parking spots, you

1032
01:38:54,875 --> 01:38:57,416
know, parking safe parking. And I believe

1033
01:38:57,416 --> 01:38:59,333
the airport location

1034
01:38:59,333 --> 01:39:00,791
has maybe seven to nine.

1035
01:39:01,958 --> 01:39:03,208
Okay. Well, what are we, when you think

1036
01:39:03,208 --> 01:39:05,416
of the boat night when 20 boats go out,

1037
01:39:05,416 --> 01:39:07,208
what do they do, right? Some people do

1038
01:39:07,208 --> 01:39:09,375
daisy chaining. So one boat pies up to

1039
01:39:09,375 --> 01:39:10,666
the mooring and the other one daisy

1040
01:39:10,666 --> 01:39:12,583
chains. So I guess I have to save two.

1041
01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:15,000
But then another boat that drop anchor,

1042
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:17,083
you sure hope that that drop on sand

1043
01:39:17,083 --> 01:39:19,416
versus on coral. But that's another story

1044
01:39:19,416 --> 01:39:22,458
I could go down to. And worst case

1045
01:39:22,458 --> 01:39:26,583
scenario is a boat that life boats, a

1046
01:39:26,583 --> 01:39:28,625
vessel that never turns the engine off

1047
01:39:28,625 --> 01:39:30,291
and drops the people off.

1048
01:39:30,291 --> 01:39:33,625
And then you do the tour with your guide

1049
01:39:33,625 --> 01:39:35,166
and the boats is somewhere in the dark

1050
01:39:35,166 --> 01:39:38,875
and watches for your guide and comes back

1051
01:39:38,875 --> 01:39:43,291
and picks you up. And you really hope

1052
01:39:43,291 --> 01:39:44,791
that the captain knows what he's doing.

1053
01:39:45,583 --> 01:39:48,833
Yeah. Yeah. Because that night, right?

1054
01:39:50,291 --> 01:39:51,666
That's also a dangerous

1055
01:39:51,666 --> 01:39:52,291
situation when it's at night.

1056
01:39:53,291 --> 01:39:56,625
If you look at the risk assessment on

1057
01:39:56,625 --> 01:39:58,375
Hawaii ocean watch, you could see all the

1058
01:39:58,375 --> 01:40:00,375
studies I have extra page there for the

1059
01:40:00,375 --> 01:40:02,666
studies. The risk assessment said one of

1060
01:40:02,666 --> 01:40:04,666
the biggest concerns is the live boating,

1061
01:40:05,291 --> 01:40:07,250
you know, because it takes place at night

1062
01:40:07,250 --> 01:40:09,625
and you cannot see the vessel. See,

1063
01:40:09,625 --> 01:40:11,208
you're not supposed to have lights on on

1064
01:40:11,208 --> 01:40:13,083
the vessel to in the sense of like, I

1065
01:40:13,083 --> 01:40:13,625
mean, you have some

1066
01:40:13,625 --> 01:40:14,291
lights on the top there, red,

1067
01:40:14,333 --> 01:40:17,875
red light, red, white lights, but that's

1068
01:40:17,875 --> 01:40:20,166
just where they are stationed. But you're

1069
01:40:20,166 --> 01:40:21,625
not supposed to have deck lights on

1070
01:40:21,625 --> 01:40:23,625
because when you have deck lights on, you

1071
01:40:23,625 --> 01:40:25,458
actually attract plankton around your

1072
01:40:25,458 --> 01:40:26,958
boat, but you're supposed to get the

1073
01:40:26,958 --> 01:40:29,250
viewing area. You know, so it's a dark

1074
01:40:29,250 --> 01:40:32,791
vessel somewhere around and you are maybe

1075
01:40:32,791 --> 01:40:36,875
100 yards away. And unfortunately, having

1076
01:40:36,875 --> 01:40:40,041
so many customers joining this tool now,

1077
01:40:40,541 --> 01:40:43,291
a lot of people that are not skilled enough, they're not skilled enough.

1078
01:40:44,333 --> 01:40:47,958
For the ocean in the first place. Yeah. I

1079
01:40:47,958 --> 01:40:49,875
get customer calls regularly and it's

1080
01:40:49,875 --> 01:40:51,333
like, Hey, I don't know how to swim. Can

1081
01:40:51,333 --> 01:40:55,041
I join? Oh, dear. Oh, no. No.

1082
01:40:56,041 --> 01:40:59,708
Let's want to stay on the surprise. So on

1083
01:40:59,708 --> 01:41:01,875
a minimum age, you know, people sign me.

1084
01:41:02,333 --> 01:41:03,833
My five and seven year old, they're

1085
01:41:03,833 --> 01:41:05,666
really good in the ocean. I'm like, yeah,

1086
01:41:05,666 --> 01:41:07,708
probably during the day. I could believe

1087
01:41:07,708 --> 01:41:10,416
that, you know, or I had one. They're

1088
01:41:10,416 --> 01:41:11,541
selling a really good sailors.

1089
01:41:12,333 --> 01:41:14,791
Yeah, but I'm in the ocean at night. And

1090
01:41:14,791 --> 01:41:19,333
this big fish, I think of maturity, how

1091
01:41:19,333 --> 01:41:21,500
to comprehend everything, because I'm not

1092
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:23,833
in a business to traumatize young minds.

1093
01:41:24,375 --> 01:41:26,375
And I say that because I had older

1094
01:41:26,375 --> 01:41:28,083
customers over the years that say, Hey, I

1095
01:41:28,083 --> 01:41:29,500
had bad experience with water when I was

1096
01:41:29,500 --> 01:41:32,916
young. And I never went back to the ocean

1097
01:41:32,916 --> 01:41:35,083
because they saw something maybe the pool

1098
01:41:35,083 --> 01:41:36,833
or I don't know what they experienced.

1099
01:41:37,208 --> 01:41:40,750
But I just say for me, my personal

1100
01:41:41,916 --> 01:41:44,416
business has 12 year old. I try to use 10

1101
01:41:44,416 --> 01:41:46,916
year old children use, but let them

1102
01:41:46,916 --> 01:41:49,333
participate. But we had meltdowns, crying

1103
01:41:49,333 --> 01:41:52,291
kids. Nobody wins here. Right. So I said

1104
01:41:52,291 --> 01:41:55,583
to 12 years and stuff like this is just

1105
01:41:55,583 --> 01:41:58,958
to consider when you do the tour. Yeah,

1106
01:41:58,958 --> 01:42:00,625
for sure. Yeah, that's something you

1107
01:42:00,625 --> 01:42:02,041
definitely definitely have to consider.

1108
01:42:02,583 --> 01:42:05,375
Now, the fourth question is, oh,

1109
01:42:05,458 --> 01:42:06,875
actually, no, third question is what is

1110
01:42:06,875 --> 01:42:09,875
the ratio of crew to guess on the tour?

1111
01:42:11,958 --> 01:42:13,958
Well, if you're lucky, it's one to six

1112
01:42:13,958 --> 01:42:17,666
dive mass. So let's diving. It's usually

1113
01:42:17,666 --> 01:42:19,833
one to six. Yeah. Okay.

1114
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:23,458
It's not going on. Most companies, I

1115
01:42:23,458 --> 01:42:27,541
believe have one to 10. And my company's

1116
01:42:27,541 --> 01:42:33,208
one to six. You know, so I feel like the

1117
01:42:33,208 --> 01:42:35,416
lower it is, the better for the customer

1118
01:42:35,416 --> 01:42:36,125
for personalized

1119
01:42:36,125 --> 01:42:37,708
attention. Yeah, for sure.

1120
01:42:38,333 --> 01:42:41,791
Yeah. One of the things like and that's

1121
01:42:41,791 --> 01:42:44,291
the max you want, right? I do want to

1122
01:42:44,291 --> 01:42:46,458
six, sometimes one to seven, but I always

1123
01:42:46,458 --> 01:42:49,416
have a swim guide that has been

1124
01:42:49,416 --> 01:42:51,083
professionally, I mean, definitely they

1125
01:42:51,083 --> 01:42:52,833
have lifeguard training and most of them

1126
01:42:52,833 --> 01:42:56,041
have dive master on certified. Yeah, but

1127
01:42:56,041 --> 01:42:59,541
I'm pretty rigorous on the training. I

1128
01:42:59,541 --> 01:43:00,791
don't know about other folks. I would

1129
01:43:00,791 --> 01:43:02,166
think that it's a business.

1130
01:43:02,416 --> 01:43:04,291
You should do that too. But

1131
01:43:06,791 --> 01:43:09,041
yeah, I want to mention one more thing

1132
01:43:09,041 --> 01:43:14,583
while we're on this with what I don't

1133
01:43:14,583 --> 01:43:16,791
allow is the full face masks. Are you

1134
01:43:16,791 --> 01:43:18,416
familiar with those full face masks?

1135
01:43:18,791 --> 01:43:20,166
Full and then they've got the snorkel

1136
01:43:20,166 --> 01:43:22,000
thing out here. Yeah, I heard it's not

1137
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:24,416
good in like open ocean in situation

1138
01:43:24,416 --> 01:43:26,500
because it's too fast of breathing. Is

1139
01:43:26,500 --> 01:43:29,541
that it? Yeah, if you breathe shallow co2

1140
01:43:29,541 --> 01:43:31,916
buildup, you know, and then you could get

1141
01:43:31,916 --> 01:43:33,000
a headache and you may be

1142
01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:33,291
further away from shore.

1143
01:43:33,291 --> 01:43:35,416
And then you'd like, okay, I have a

1144
01:43:35,416 --> 01:43:37,166
headache. How do I get back? Yeah, all

1145
01:43:37,166 --> 01:43:38,416
kinds of things. That's just another good

1146
01:43:38,416 --> 01:43:40,208
idea. But as a guide, I tell you that

1147
01:43:40,208 --> 01:43:41,833
just as a guide, I don't know what people

1148
01:43:41,833 --> 01:43:44,458
tell me. They're just mumbling is like,

1149
01:43:44,458 --> 01:43:48,750
oh, right. I don't know. So I tried that

1150
01:43:48,750 --> 01:43:50,958
too for a while and that people use a

1151
01:43:50,958 --> 01:43:53,583
full face mask. But then you come to two

1152
01:43:53,583 --> 01:43:55,541
or three situations where it's just a

1153
01:43:55,541 --> 01:43:58,375
borderline. And then I just created

1154
01:43:58,375 --> 01:44:00,958
policies like, yeah, of

1155
01:44:00,958 --> 01:44:02,291
course, you can join us.

1156
01:44:02,333 --> 01:44:06,250
We have the gear for you. But please no

1157
01:44:06,250 --> 01:44:08,291
full face masks. And it definitely makes

1158
01:44:08,291 --> 01:44:10,208
sense. Because especially in an emergency

1159
01:44:10,208 --> 01:44:12,250
situation, you want to be able to hear

1160
01:44:12,250 --> 01:44:13,916
that person like that. You don't want to

1161
01:44:13,916 --> 01:44:15,208
have to like, what did you say? Like you

1162
01:44:15,208 --> 01:44:17,083
don't have to repeat it because you might

1163
01:44:17,083 --> 01:44:18,958
have to make a split second decision. And

1164
01:44:18,958 --> 01:44:21,291
you know, it's it's if you can't hear the

1165
01:44:21,291 --> 01:44:24,500
person, then that's obviously, obviously

1166
01:44:24,500 --> 01:44:27,166
a problem. Right? Yeah. The fourth

1167
01:44:27,166 --> 01:44:28,166
question here, I think you already

1168
01:44:28,166 --> 01:44:30,208
answered it is how experienced is the

1169
01:44:30,208 --> 01:44:31,291
crew obviously experience and training.

1170
01:44:31,291 --> 01:44:33,250
Experience and training is going to be

1171
01:44:33,250 --> 01:44:35,791
something that's really important. Dive

1172
01:44:35,791 --> 01:44:38,500
master is one thing, but also experience

1173
01:44:38,500 --> 01:44:40,083
in diving in these

1174
01:44:40,083 --> 01:44:41,333
types of situations, right?

1175
01:44:43,083 --> 01:44:44,833
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's one

1176
01:44:44,833 --> 01:44:46,083
of the questions you could ask when you

1177
01:44:46,083 --> 01:44:48,333
sign up for it too is like, you know, how

1178
01:44:48,333 --> 01:44:51,958
is the crew? Is it is a two year old crew

1179
01:44:51,958 --> 01:44:53,875
or, you know, could I have someone who is

1180
01:44:53,875 --> 01:44:56,458
already doing it for longer versus could

1181
01:44:56,458 --> 01:44:58,500
I sign up on a day where, you know, every

1182
01:44:58,500 --> 01:44:59,291
crew has schedules and stuff like this, you know,

1183
01:44:59,291 --> 01:45:03,500
you can ask questions like this. But I've

1184
01:45:03,500 --> 01:45:05,375
been in a situation when I used to sell

1185
01:45:05,375 --> 01:45:07,958
my videos. So it's maybe 10 12 years ago,

1186
01:45:07,958 --> 01:45:10,708
and there was at the harbor, you know, I

1187
01:45:10,708 --> 01:45:12,625
was setting up my TV to show the videos

1188
01:45:12,625 --> 01:45:14,666
to the people to make myself but the

1189
01:45:14,666 --> 01:45:17,000
other end of the harbor was the wash down

1190
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:19,375
area of the boats. And as one night, this

1191
01:45:19,375 --> 01:45:21,166
guy comes over, and I didn't know him,

1192
01:45:21,166 --> 01:45:22,583
he's like, Oh, I just, you know, I got

1193
01:45:22,583 --> 01:45:24,916
off the airplane two days ago, and now

1194
01:45:24,916 --> 01:45:27,291
I'm a crew member on this boat. Okay. I mean, it's not that I'm not a crew member.

1195
01:45:27,333 --> 01:45:31,083
Okay. I mean, that happens. I mean, yeah.

1196
01:45:32,166 --> 01:45:35,166
That's why I can say I know that there is

1197
01:45:35,166 --> 01:45:38,125
a big, big difference on what you can

1198
01:45:38,125 --> 01:45:40,416
experience. Right. And I want to visit

1199
01:45:40,416 --> 01:45:42,416
that I want the tourists to demand good

1200
01:45:42,416 --> 01:45:44,541
people. You know, it's like, just slide

1201
01:45:44,541 --> 01:45:47,541
it by. So, yeah, especially like, I mean,

1202
01:45:47,541 --> 01:45:49,250
I think this is, and this goes for any

1203
01:45:49,250 --> 01:45:51,166
kind of scuba diving outfit, really, if

1204
01:45:51,166 --> 01:45:52,208
you're just scuba diving during the day

1205
01:45:52,208 --> 01:45:54,083
or at night, you want to make sure that

1206
01:45:54,083 --> 01:45:55,541
the people you're diving with are

1207
01:45:55,541 --> 01:45:57,083
experienced, they have,

1208
01:45:57,083 --> 01:45:57,291
you know, a lot of people are

1209
01:45:57,583 --> 01:45:59,708
not only the training and the

1210
01:45:59,708 --> 01:46:01,791
certification, but they also have

1211
01:46:01,791 --> 01:46:05,000
familiarity with the area, especially on

1212
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:09,083
a night dive, having experience on for a

1213
01:46:09,083 --> 01:46:11,541
number of years, 10 plus years, 510 plus

1214
01:46:11,541 --> 01:46:15,166
years. And again, the area and the animal

1215
01:46:15,166 --> 01:46:17,250
that you're diving with and whatever else

1216
01:46:17,250 --> 01:46:18,791
can come around, because this is an

1217
01:46:18,791 --> 01:46:21,000
ocean, it's not as if it's just man rays

1218
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:22,333
that are coming around, you have to be

1219
01:46:22,333 --> 01:46:25,208
able to calm people down in the ocean who

1220
01:46:25,208 --> 01:46:26,166
are a little nervous at the

1221
01:46:26,166 --> 01:46:27,291
beginning and at the bottom.

1222
01:46:27,666 --> 01:46:29,791
There's no room for error at that point.

1223
01:46:30,166 --> 01:46:31,583
And although it's, you know, I'm sure

1224
01:46:31,583 --> 01:46:34,458
it's safe, you know, like ninety nine

1225
01:46:34,458 --> 01:46:35,875
point nine, nine, nine, nine percent of

1226
01:46:35,875 --> 01:46:37,000
the time. But you want to have that

1227
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:39,833
experience to be there just in case.

1228
01:46:40,416 --> 01:46:41,500
And so that you can get out of it and

1229
01:46:41,500 --> 01:46:43,375
just be like, I'm so happy that we had

1230
01:46:43,375 --> 01:46:45,375
this person here because they could they

1231
01:46:45,375 --> 01:46:46,875
could help out. I think that's that's a

1232
01:46:46,875 --> 01:46:48,375
really important factor. That should be

1233
01:46:48,375 --> 01:46:49,833
for any diving, even

1234
01:46:49,833 --> 01:46:51,250
snorkeling. I think you're right.

1235
01:46:51,291 --> 01:46:52,875
I think I never thought about it's like,

1236
01:46:52,875 --> 01:46:54,500
you know, sometimes you get caught up in

1237
01:46:54,500 --> 01:46:56,125
a current, you don't realize it. And,

1238
01:46:56,125 --> 01:46:57,750
and, you know, you need someone to help

1239
01:46:57,750 --> 01:46:59,541
you, you know, you never know. Right. So

1240
01:46:59,541 --> 01:47:02,833
it's definitely important. Now, now this

1241
01:47:02,833 --> 01:47:05,958
is just it's a really, we are in a really

1242
01:47:05,958 --> 01:47:08,333
serious business again. Yeah, business

1243
01:47:08,333 --> 01:47:11,375
person. I'm in a serious business. And I

1244
01:47:11,375 --> 01:47:14,250
tried to be in the much nicest way I can

1245
01:47:14,250 --> 01:47:15,208
actually as a German

1246
01:47:15,208 --> 01:47:17,250
sometimes like very direct.

1247
01:47:17,250 --> 01:47:23,250
I'm like, no, we can't do it this way.

1248
01:47:23,250 --> 01:47:25,500
Like what the customer wants for me, you

1249
01:47:25,500 --> 01:47:27,250
know, right? I mean, we have these really

1250
01:47:27,250 --> 01:47:29,208
with February, you know, we have really

1251
01:47:29,208 --> 01:47:30,833
rough ocean right now. The waves are like

1252
01:47:30,833 --> 01:47:33,583
four to five feet height when they come

1253
01:47:33,583 --> 01:47:35,750
into the beach. Yeah, you cannot go

1254
01:47:35,750 --> 01:47:38,250
through four to five feet height at night

1255
01:47:38,250 --> 01:47:41,541
to go into the water. But then you have

1256
01:47:41,541 --> 01:47:43,916
these customers and they get a little

1257
01:47:43,916 --> 01:47:46,250
antsy on with you on the phone. And I'm just like, that's what I'm doing.

1258
01:47:46,250 --> 01:47:47,958
And just like, that's a person that is

1259
01:47:47,958 --> 01:47:50,333
disconnected. It's just about what I as a

1260
01:47:50,333 --> 01:47:52,833
species can get out of it. And I wish

1261
01:47:52,833 --> 01:47:56,291
that people that we really turn the page

1262
01:47:56,291 --> 01:48:00,000
sooner than later, that look through the

1263
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:03,083
lens of the environment, sustainability,

1264
01:48:04,708 --> 01:48:07,375
what is the animal experience, safety,

1265
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:09,291
everything, you know, just

1266
01:48:09,291 --> 01:48:12,250
not so what do I get out of it.

1267
01:48:12,625 --> 01:48:15,750
And then if I don't get it, be not very

1268
01:48:15,750 --> 01:48:18,666
nice, you know, and I'm always happy to

1269
01:48:18,666 --> 01:48:20,583
educate people because it's a specialized

1270
01:48:20,583 --> 01:48:23,500
field, you know, but sometimes you really

1271
01:48:23,500 --> 01:48:26,250
think like, common sense, you know.

1272
01:48:27,250 --> 01:48:30,375
Well, for sure. I mean, there are like

1273
01:48:30,375 --> 01:48:33,166
you said, like until after the dive, when

1274
01:48:33,166 --> 01:48:35,541
they see it happen, obviously, they're a

1275
01:48:35,541 --> 01:48:37,500
lot more connected and they understand

1276
01:48:37,500 --> 01:48:40,291
the beauty. But sometimes the fact that

1277
01:48:40,291 --> 01:48:41,791
they're out doing it, they just think

1278
01:48:41,791 --> 01:48:42,916
that they can do it whenever.

1279
01:48:43,291 --> 01:48:45,041
And that's obviously, there's a season

1280
01:48:45,041 --> 01:48:46,875
for it. There's a reason there's a season

1281
01:48:46,875 --> 01:48:50,916
for it. The ocean can be can be

1282
01:48:50,916 --> 01:48:53,125
dangerous. It can be wavy. It can be, you

1283
01:48:53,125 --> 01:48:54,958
know, you have to respect it. And so if

1284
01:48:54,958 --> 01:48:56,375
it's, you know, if you're not offering at

1285
01:48:56,375 --> 01:48:57,000
a time because of the

1286
01:48:57,000 --> 01:48:59,166
seas, don't question it.

1287
01:48:59,166 --> 01:49:00,125
Just be like, you'll come back another

1288
01:49:00,125 --> 01:49:01,750
time and come back during that season.

1289
01:49:01,750 --> 01:49:03,166
Because I think that's, that's really

1290
01:49:03,166 --> 01:49:05,000
important. This last question here is,

1291
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:06,791
what are your cutoff

1292
01:49:06,791 --> 01:49:08,250
criteria for canceling?

1293
01:49:08,250 --> 01:49:10,291
We kind of just talked about it in terms

1294
01:49:10,291 --> 01:49:12,916
of like wave advisories and things like

1295
01:49:12,916 --> 01:49:16,625
that. Why is that important? Obviously,

1296
01:49:16,916 --> 01:49:18,083
common sense. But why is that important

1297
01:49:18,083 --> 01:49:21,666
for other criteria? And what is that

1298
01:49:21,666 --> 01:49:23,250
criteria for like cutting? I assume

1299
01:49:23,250 --> 01:49:24,208
cutting off means we're not

1300
01:49:24,208 --> 01:49:25,250
going out. Is that what it is?

1301
01:49:25,250 --> 01:49:29,416
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I call people I say

1302
01:49:29,416 --> 01:49:31,125
I'm not going. And so if I look at the

1303
01:49:31,125 --> 01:49:33,166
forecast, so they're really good tools

1304
01:49:33,166 --> 01:49:35,750
today to see what's happening. So my

1305
01:49:35,750 --> 01:49:37,875
particular location up on the northern

1306
01:49:37,875 --> 01:49:40,666
part of the island is there's a webcam

1307
01:49:40,666 --> 01:49:43,583
and there is a website. I mean, there are

1308
01:49:43,583 --> 01:49:44,250
many websites with surf forecasts.

1309
01:49:44,250 --> 01:49:48,541
I use surfline.com and in particular on

1310
01:49:48,541 --> 01:49:51,166
this particular bay and the buoys

1311
01:49:51,166 --> 01:49:53,166
somewhere in the Pacific Ocean, they

1312
01:49:53,166 --> 01:49:57,375
detect as swells, you know, how the

1313
01:49:57,375 --> 01:50:00,666
swells are created because of somewhere

1314
01:50:00,666 --> 01:50:03,250
tropical storm, they create swells.

1315
01:50:03,291 --> 01:50:06,166
When these swells crash against the

1316
01:50:06,166 --> 01:50:08,458
shoreline, they then we have the waves,

1317
01:50:08,458 --> 01:50:10,958
right? And interesting enough, I have to

1318
01:50:10,958 --> 01:50:14,833
look at the many years I've been here in

1319
01:50:14,833 --> 01:50:17,875
the winters, we used to have a swell and

1320
01:50:17,875 --> 01:50:19,458
then a little break in the winter and

1321
01:50:19,458 --> 01:50:22,083
then another swell, really big ones,

1322
01:50:22,333 --> 01:50:25,291
smaller ones. But this year, I haven't

1323
01:50:25,291 --> 01:50:28,083
worked since January 3. You know, and the

1324
01:50:28,083 --> 01:50:30,041
forecast tells me right now, I have a 16

1325
01:50:30,041 --> 01:50:31,833
day forecast that I probably can resume

1326
01:50:31,833 --> 01:50:32,250
business on March 5.

1327
01:50:33,250 --> 01:50:37,125
Because one swell after another, one

1328
01:50:37,125 --> 01:50:39,000
tropical storm after another was

1329
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:40,541
generated somewhere in the Pacific.

1330
01:50:41,166 --> 01:50:42,916
Hawaii has a lot of water around us. I

1331
01:50:42,916 --> 01:50:45,166
trust on that one. When you fly here, you

1332
01:50:45,166 --> 01:50:49,375
fly six hours over water, right? So when

1333
01:50:49,375 --> 01:50:51,666
so many storms were just generating the

1334
01:50:51,666 --> 01:50:53,666
swells and then the waves crashing into

1335
01:50:53,666 --> 01:50:55,875
the shoreline. And so I have a forecast

1336
01:50:55,875 --> 01:50:58,000
of that. And if I see this week, for

1337
01:50:58,000 --> 01:50:59,666
example, I will not work all week. I call

1338
01:50:59,666 --> 01:51:01,250
the customs two or three days ahead of time and say, it's not that long.

1339
01:51:01,250 --> 01:51:03,666
I say it's not going to happen. Use your

1340
01:51:03,666 --> 01:51:06,541
vacation time differently. Right. So

1341
01:51:06,541 --> 01:51:08,375
that's one of the things. But even when

1342
01:51:08,375 --> 01:51:10,208
we get to the point, the swells are not

1343
01:51:10,208 --> 01:51:12,375
as big as in waters, the waves have

1344
01:51:12,375 --> 01:51:14,583
calmed down. I still need about 48 hours

1345
01:51:14,583 --> 01:51:17,958
before I resume for two reasons. First of

1346
01:51:17,958 --> 01:51:21,458
all, this this bay is sandy, you know, so

1347
01:51:21,458 --> 01:51:23,333
the sand is all stirred up, you know, you

1348
01:51:23,333 --> 01:51:25,958
have all that there's no visibility. You

1349
01:51:25,958 --> 01:51:26,833
want to go into the

1350
01:51:26,833 --> 01:51:27,250
Pacific. It makes a difference.

1351
01:51:27,250 --> 01:51:29,875
It's like you want to see something

1352
01:51:29,875 --> 01:51:32,333
right. And you would not see anything. So

1353
01:51:32,333 --> 01:51:34,083
I need time and we need the ocean to

1354
01:51:34,083 --> 01:51:36,791
settle the sediment, you know, and I also

1355
01:51:36,791 --> 01:51:38,250
need mannerize when I do my tools.

1356
01:51:39,208 --> 01:51:41,791
People come to see mannerize and they

1357
01:51:41,791 --> 01:51:44,291
leave the area for a while. And hopefully

1358
01:51:44,291 --> 01:51:45,916
they come back. I never know that it's an

1359
01:51:45,916 --> 01:51:48,208
experience, but we're very fortunate over

1360
01:51:48,208 --> 01:51:49,958
the years. I can say the manner is

1361
01:51:49,958 --> 01:51:51,958
somehow always come back. Maybe a new

1362
01:51:51,958 --> 01:51:53,333
animal comes in, new manner.

1363
01:51:53,333 --> 01:51:55,375
It comes in and we're naming it and, you

1364
01:51:55,375 --> 01:51:56,875
know, there's a personality individuality

1365
01:51:56,875 --> 01:51:59,416
to it. And then some manner is leave the

1366
01:51:59,416 --> 01:52:00,708
area or maybe go to the

1367
01:52:00,708 --> 01:52:02,000
other location along the coast.

1368
01:52:03,250 --> 01:52:04,666
There's a lot of tracking happening

1369
01:52:04,666 --> 01:52:06,875
because we have the names for the manner.

1370
01:52:06,875 --> 01:52:09,333
It's kind of cool. So that is for my

1371
01:52:09,333 --> 01:52:11,750
location that I see surf height and have

1372
01:52:11,750 --> 01:52:14,291
a forecast that I would cancel. But then

1373
01:52:14,291 --> 01:52:16,041
people ask me when I have these guests on

1374
01:52:16,041 --> 01:52:16,833
the phone and they say,

1375
01:52:16,833 --> 01:52:18,250
hey, should I go on the boats?

1376
01:52:18,291 --> 01:52:21,791
I'm like, well, it's going to be a rocky

1377
01:52:21,791 --> 01:52:27,125
rocky rocky rocky journey because of my

1378
01:52:27,125 --> 01:52:29,916
location is blown out. You know, the rest

1379
01:52:29,916 --> 01:52:31,458
of the West Coast is pretty much blown

1380
01:52:31,458 --> 01:52:34,041
out to the swells that are that happened

1381
01:52:34,041 --> 01:52:36,000
in the wintertime hit the West Shore.

1382
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:37,125
We are on the West side of the island.

1383
01:52:37,125 --> 01:52:39,125
They happen to come from the West and

1384
01:52:39,125 --> 01:52:41,291
from the North and then the rest of the

1385
01:52:41,291 --> 01:52:43,791
year, they hit the East and the South.

1386
01:52:43,791 --> 01:52:45,625
You know, some then we're protected in

1387
01:52:45,625 --> 01:52:47,250
our bay. You know, it's a rocky road.

1388
01:52:47,250 --> 01:52:49,708
You know, it's like the surface is like

1389
01:52:49,708 --> 01:52:53,125
this and you have to be ready if you are

1390
01:52:53,125 --> 01:52:55,208
prone to seasickness or just don't go on

1391
01:52:55,208 --> 01:52:58,166
the ocean often and on the boat. Then

1392
01:52:58,166 --> 01:53:00,916
this whole tour could be just not a good

1393
01:53:00,916 --> 01:53:02,750
memory. You spend a

1394
01:53:02,750 --> 01:53:03,625
lot of money to be there.

1395
01:53:04,500 --> 01:53:05,916
Exactly. Exactly. You spend a lot of

1396
01:53:05,916 --> 01:53:07,500
money and you want to make sure you have

1397
01:53:07,500 --> 01:53:09,666
a good time. You want to be able to get

1398
01:53:09,666 --> 01:53:11,333
the entire experience and that would be

1399
01:53:11,333 --> 01:53:14,541
that would be great. As we kind of come

1400
01:53:14,541 --> 01:53:16,250
near to the end of this interview, you know, you have a lot of experience.

1401
01:53:16,791 --> 01:53:18,916
You know, you have a lot of hopes for

1402
01:53:18,916 --> 01:53:20,625
this industry. You have a lot of hopes

1403
01:53:20,625 --> 01:53:23,458
for the manorays. What do you hope that

1404
01:53:23,458 --> 01:53:25,791
happens and how do you want to play a

1405
01:53:25,791 --> 01:53:29,166
role in in this sort of pushing this

1406
01:53:29,166 --> 01:53:31,458
regulation? What what do you plan on

1407
01:53:31,458 --> 01:53:33,958
doing through the nonprofit through, you

1408
01:53:33,958 --> 01:53:35,500
know, through Hawaii, Hawaii

1409
01:53:35,500 --> 01:53:37,625
Ocean Watch as well as through

1410
01:53:38,291 --> 01:53:40,416
the manor a advocates? What do you hope

1411
01:53:40,416 --> 01:53:43,958
to happen? Yeah, I need a little bit more

1412
01:53:43,958 --> 01:53:47,541
a team around me that are not just in the

1413
01:53:47,541 --> 01:53:51,875
industry. That lady last year from the

1414
01:53:51,875 --> 01:53:54,166
University of Hawaii law student gave me

1415
01:53:54,166 --> 01:53:55,833
like a whole different angle to this

1416
01:53:55,833 --> 01:53:59,208
whole thing, right? And I wish the thing

1417
01:53:59,208 --> 01:54:01,125
is, it's a my business also one woman

1418
01:54:01,125 --> 01:54:03,083
show for the most, but I have a team, you

1419
01:54:03,083 --> 01:54:04,708
know, everybody has, but I

1420
01:54:04,708 --> 01:54:05,833
have so many hats on. I have.

1421
01:54:06,291 --> 01:54:08,916
Right. Yeah, as a business owner for a

1422
01:54:08,916 --> 01:54:11,083
small company, you have so many things at

1423
01:54:11,083 --> 01:54:12,708
the same time. So the time of the day is

1424
01:54:12,708 --> 01:54:17,000
only so much. So I wish that we can move

1425
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:19,583
forward. I plan with my podcast that I

1426
01:54:19,583 --> 01:54:22,708
have coming up this year, also to invite

1427
01:54:22,708 --> 01:54:25,250
folks like our local representatives and

1428
01:54:25,250 --> 01:54:28,125
I'm like, Hey, guys, 2014, you already

1429
01:54:28,125 --> 01:54:29,625
had this resolution with the

1430
01:54:29,625 --> 01:54:31,375
representative half your local leadership

1431
01:54:31,375 --> 01:54:33,625
representative, you know, it's like, Hey,

1432
01:54:34,083 --> 01:54:35,250
11 years ago, you did something.

1433
01:54:35,250 --> 01:54:37,708
I already wires that no follow up stuff.

1434
01:54:37,708 --> 01:54:40,666
So I want to invite people. And also,

1435
01:54:40,666 --> 01:54:43,416
it's always goes back to good policy that

1436
01:54:43,416 --> 01:54:45,375
I'm looking for, for a really beautiful

1437
01:54:45,375 --> 01:54:47,625
experience with manner is we need good

1438
01:54:47,625 --> 01:54:49,875
policy, but you need good government. So

1439
01:54:49,875 --> 01:54:51,666
you need to also get engaged with the

1440
01:54:51,666 --> 01:54:53,708
legislator that create these rules and

1441
01:54:53,708 --> 01:54:56,583
set it up for us, right? So yes, the

1442
01:54:56,583 --> 01:54:59,291
citizens can live with that abide by it.

1443
01:54:59,541 --> 01:55:01,750
And I okay with that, because of course,

1444
01:55:01,750 --> 01:55:04,750
it's always a process. But again, good

1445
01:55:04,750 --> 01:55:05,250
policy comes from the

1446
01:55:05,291 --> 01:55:07,791
government. That means citizens have to

1447
01:55:07,791 --> 01:55:09,833
be involved in that just that that it's

1448
01:55:09,833 --> 01:55:11,291
like things somewhere else is going to do

1449
01:55:11,291 --> 01:55:13,916
it. So my goal is with the podcast, it's

1450
01:55:13,916 --> 01:55:16,500
just this up a little more actually just

1451
01:55:16,500 --> 01:55:19,291
met my Congresswoman on Saturday for the

1452
01:55:19,291 --> 01:55:20,791
first time she was on the big island for

1453
01:55:20,791 --> 01:55:22,625
her town hall was a really cool

1454
01:55:22,625 --> 01:55:26,000
experience. Yeah, I was very engaged. I

1455
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:27,666
think the citizens of the United States

1456
01:55:27,666 --> 01:55:29,500
are waking up to a lot of other things

1457
01:55:29,500 --> 01:55:33,000
besides ocean, ocean stuff, right? But

1458
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:35,250
environmental stuff. And I wish that

1459
01:55:35,250 --> 01:55:39,166
we all maybe carry forward for the next

1460
01:55:39,166 --> 01:55:41,625
let's say the next 10 years, if we all

1461
01:55:41,625 --> 01:55:43,416
take a little bit more of our time versus

1462
01:55:43,416 --> 01:55:46,791
just what do I get out of it? How can we

1463
01:55:46,791 --> 01:55:49,958
as citizens create a country that has

1464
01:55:49,958 --> 01:55:52,000
good policy through good government, you

1465
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:54,666
know, and maybe it gives a lot of people,

1466
01:55:54,666 --> 01:55:56,916
I mean, for me, it gives me a lot of a

1467
01:55:56,916 --> 01:55:59,083
lot of intention behind my work. But it's

1468
01:55:59,083 --> 01:56:02,000
very content work. I really think I'm on

1469
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:04,250
the right side of history here for making

1470
01:56:04,250 --> 01:56:05,250
the world a better place.

1471
01:56:05,250 --> 01:56:09,583
Yeah. And I wish more folks feel that way

1472
01:56:09,583 --> 01:56:13,041
and dedicate time to that, to that goal

1473
01:56:13,041 --> 01:56:15,916
to that mission. Let's make the world I

1474
01:56:15,916 --> 01:56:17,083
think for the first time in my all my

1475
01:56:17,083 --> 01:56:21,916
life, I'm I think I'm 57. I'm not sure. I

1476
01:56:21,916 --> 01:56:24,041
always forget something in the 50s. But

1477
01:56:24,041 --> 01:56:26,333
in my first my life, I feel like because

1478
01:56:26,333 --> 01:56:28,125
so many citizens citizens are now waking

1479
01:56:28,125 --> 01:56:31,750
up and want to do good government. Maybe

1480
01:56:31,750 --> 01:56:33,041
we can really shape something for the

1481
01:56:33,041 --> 01:56:34,250
first time I feel like I can shape

1482
01:56:34,250 --> 01:56:35,250
something and yeah, I think that's a good thing.

1483
01:56:35,250 --> 01:56:37,250
Yeah, it should feel hopefully fuel me

1484
01:56:37,250 --> 01:56:40,000
and maybe people step into my path that

1485
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:42,166
helped me to get regulations for the

1486
01:56:42,166 --> 01:56:44,041
manner is and what what else needs to be

1487
01:56:44,041 --> 01:56:46,833
done. I love it. I love it. That was a

1488
01:56:46,833 --> 01:56:49,125
great way to end off the show. Or to

1489
01:56:49,125 --> 01:56:51,958
thank you so much for joining us. If I

1490
01:56:51,958 --> 01:56:54,125
could invite some people some if you want

1491
01:56:54,125 --> 01:56:55,458
to come back to my website, I actually

1492
01:56:55,458 --> 01:56:57,416
have manner and meditations. I don't know

1493
01:56:57,416 --> 01:57:00,041
if you saw that I did not see that I must

1494
01:57:00,041 --> 01:57:01,708
have missed that back in the pandemic. I

1495
01:57:01,708 --> 01:57:03,583
had a meditation

1496
01:57:03,583 --> 01:57:05,250
teacher with me together.

1497
01:57:05,250 --> 01:57:08,000
Creating all my archives of video footage

1498
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:09,583
of the manner is manner and meditations

1499
01:57:09,583 --> 01:57:11,333
for and it's for free. It's on the

1500
01:57:11,333 --> 01:57:13,458
website and you can sign up for it. So

1501
01:57:13,458 --> 01:57:15,208
you can actually dive down into the

1502
01:57:15,208 --> 01:57:17,958
manner is world and just on your device

1503
01:57:17,958 --> 01:57:20,416
back home and just get a feel of how

1504
01:57:20,416 --> 01:57:22,166
beautiful the elements are. And it's

1505
01:57:22,166 --> 01:57:25,458
manner and meditations.com if you want to

1506
01:57:25,458 --> 01:57:29,333
it has a link to it. And I wish that the

1507
01:57:29,333 --> 01:57:33,083
message for me is we can do better. Let's

1508
01:57:33,083 --> 01:57:33,958
do better. Let's

1509
01:57:33,958 --> 01:57:35,250
dedicate ourselves to do better.

1510
01:57:35,291 --> 01:57:39,833
And this is the time to really think of

1511
01:57:39,833 --> 01:57:42,750
our species we can do and must be better.

1512
01:57:43,750 --> 01:57:45,250
Absolutely. No, I love it. I have it

1513
01:57:45,250 --> 01:57:47,125
right here. Perfect. I'm going to link to

1514
01:57:47,125 --> 01:57:49,333
that as well. This is great. I love the

1515
01:57:49,333 --> 01:57:50,958
effort. If there's a if there's anything

1516
01:57:50,958 --> 01:57:52,375
we can do to help out, please let us

1517
01:57:52,375 --> 01:57:54,583
know. But obviously we're going to we're

1518
01:57:54,583 --> 01:57:56,416
going to be releasing this podcast and so

1519
01:57:56,416 --> 01:57:58,000
that I'll get people help. And if you

1520
01:57:58,000 --> 01:57:59,375
need help with the podcast, let me know.

1521
01:58:00,083 --> 01:58:01,708
But this has been a great experience

1522
01:58:01,708 --> 01:58:03,166
having you on the podcast. Thank you so

1523
01:58:03,166 --> 01:58:04,500
much for the work that you've done in the

1524
01:58:04,500 --> 01:58:05,250
work that you're going to do.

1525
01:58:05,291 --> 01:58:06,833
We really appreciate and can't wait to

1526
01:58:06,833 --> 01:58:09,750
have you back on. Yes, thank you. Aloha.

1527
01:58:09,791 --> 01:58:11,208
Thank you, Martina, for joining us on

1528
01:58:11,208 --> 01:58:12,625
today's episode of the How to Protect the

1529
01:58:12,625 --> 01:58:14,875
Ocean podcast. It was so great to be able

1530
01:58:14,875 --> 01:58:16,708
to talk to somebody who's been in the

1531
01:58:16,708 --> 01:58:18,958
industry, but is looking out for the

1532
01:58:18,958 --> 01:58:21,208
animals that drive the industry.

1533
01:58:21,583 --> 01:58:23,208
Obviously, there's been an explosion of

1534
01:58:23,208 --> 01:58:26,000
popularity with Manaree diving. This is

1535
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:27,583
something that people really want to take

1536
01:58:27,583 --> 01:58:29,958
part in. But there's also an ethics code

1537
01:58:29,958 --> 01:58:32,000
that you have to abide by when you say,

1538
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:34,250
who do I go with? You know, I got to make

1539
01:58:34,250 --> 01:58:35,250
sure that I'm safe. I got to do it.

1540
01:58:35,250 --> 01:58:37,666
I got to make sure that there's not too

1541
01:58:37,666 --> 01:58:39,166
many people out there and that

1542
01:58:39,166 --> 01:58:40,583
regulations need to be put into place

1543
01:58:40,583 --> 01:58:42,708
because obviously people aren't really

1544
01:58:42,708 --> 01:58:44,833
adhering to the voluntary regulations

1545
01:58:44,833 --> 01:58:46,583
that have been put into place. And so

1546
01:58:46,583 --> 01:58:48,541
that is an important aspect. You know, a

1547
01:58:48,541 --> 01:58:50,708
lot of times when unfortunately when

1548
01:58:50,708 --> 01:58:52,416
businesses are provided a time to

1549
01:58:52,416 --> 01:58:55,125
volunteer, not all businesses will

1550
01:58:55,125 --> 01:58:57,875
volunteer their time to regulate

1551
01:58:57,875 --> 01:59:00,125
themselves in terms of how they operate

1552
01:59:00,125 --> 01:59:01,791
their business. Unfortunately, that's

1553
01:59:01,791 --> 01:59:03,666
just the way life goes. But it's nice to

1554
01:59:03,666 --> 01:59:05,208
have people like Martina and

1555
01:59:05,291 --> 01:59:06,958
her business and other business operators

1556
01:59:06,958 --> 01:59:08,583
that are similar to her that push for

1557
01:59:08,583 --> 01:59:10,833
these regulations to ensure that people

1558
01:59:10,833 --> 01:59:13,250
follow and abide by these rules so that

1559
01:59:13,250 --> 01:59:14,708
we can protect Manaree's and we can

1560
01:59:14,708 --> 01:59:16,583
protect the people and the Bova operators

1561
01:59:16,583 --> 01:59:18,541
that are actually doing this work. This

1562
01:59:18,541 --> 01:59:21,000
is not easy work. The ocean can be very

1563
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:23,000
tough, especially at night and people

1564
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:24,833
need to be safe and the Manaree's needs

1565
01:59:24,833 --> 01:59:27,041
to be safe. That's priority number one.

1566
01:59:27,041 --> 01:59:28,791
Both of those are priority number one. So

1567
01:59:28,791 --> 01:59:31,083
yeah, it was great to talk to Martina.

1568
01:59:31,083 --> 01:59:32,416
Thank you so much for joining us.

1569
01:59:33,000 --> 01:59:34,375
Martina, we really appreciate you sharing

1570
01:59:34,375 --> 01:59:35,125
your information. I'll put

1571
01:59:35,125 --> 01:59:35,250
the link in the description.

1572
01:59:35,291 --> 01:59:36,500
We have a link to the website that she

1573
01:59:36,500 --> 01:59:39,333
mentioned all in the show notes and you

1574
01:59:39,333 --> 01:59:42,083
can get a hold of me and talk to me if

1575
01:59:42,083 --> 01:59:43,500
you want. All you have to do is just hit

1576
01:59:43,500 --> 01:59:45,583
me up on Instagram at how to protect the

1577
01:59:45,583 --> 01:59:47,083
ocean. That's at how to protect the

1578
01:59:47,083 --> 01:59:48,750
ocean. And if you have any comments or

1579
01:59:48,750 --> 01:59:51,000
questions, you can put them in the

1580
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:52,833
comment section just down below if you're

1581
01:59:52,833 --> 01:59:55,291
watching this on YouTube or on Spotify or

1582
01:59:55,291 --> 01:59:59,166
if you can contact me through Instagram

1583
01:59:59,166 --> 02:00:01,166
if you're listening to the audio episode.

1584
02:00:01,583 --> 02:00:02,791
Thank you so much for joining me on

1585
02:00:02,791 --> 02:00:03,916
today's episode of the how to

1586
02:00:03,916 --> 02:00:05,250
protect the ocean podcast. I'm

1587
02:00:05,291 --> 02:00:06,833
your host Andrew from the true North

1588
02:00:06,833 --> 02:00:08,416
strong and free. Have a great day. We'll

1589
02:00:08,416 --> 02:00:09,250
talk to you next time

1590
02:00:09,250 --> 02:00:10,250
and happy conservation.