Coastal 500: Uniting Mayors for Ocean Conservation

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When we talk about the oceans, we talk a lot of times about bad

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news is happening sea level rise and climate change effects like sea

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surface temperature increases and coral reefs dying because they're bleaching

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and all this bad stuff that happens around like small islands

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where they their shores are just all plastic from

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plastic pollution from other countries and things like that. A lot of

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the times we don't talk about the resiliency of these coastal communities in

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different parts of the world, especially small island states. On today's episode,

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we're actually going to be talking about the building of that capacity and that resiliency in

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different countries like the Philippines, Honduras, and

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other countries that just need that little extra help.

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And RARE, an organization that I've worked with before and

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we've had on the podcast before, talk about this on

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this episode. I talked to Rocky Sanchez-Tirona, who

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is here to talk about the projects in the Philippines, as well as other places,

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about their Fish Forever program, as well as their

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Coastal 500, where their goal is to bring together 500 communities,

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500 governments, to talk about

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and to sharing resources about building that coastal resiliency

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in a lot of places along the equator. We're going to talk about that on

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today's episode. I'm super excited. Let's start the show. Hey,

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I

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am your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the

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ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for

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a better ocean by taking action. And on today's episode, we're

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gonna be talking about living for a better ocean by taking action in

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a way that I haven't really talked about in a long time, and that's

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looking at what organizations like RARE does

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with small island communities. These

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are communities within small islands that are fishing communities that

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primarily depend on fish and

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fishing for their sustenance, as well as making a livelihood. And

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obviously changes in the environment that are affecting the availability of

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those fish, the availability of that seafood for

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them to live a proper life and the life that they're used to living. And

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so it's building that resiliency to be able to continue to

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you know, have that livelihood, be able to live the way they've wanted

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to live in the way they have lived for hundreds of if not thousands of years,

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and be able to do that in the face of change, ups and downs, whether

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a typhoon comes in, whether there is, you know, bleaching within

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a coral reef, or, you know, there's a change in, you

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know, the topography or whatever that might be, you never know what's

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going to happen in the ocean. That's what's kind of the dynamics of

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the ocean. It gives it such a great and interesting way of studying

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it. But also, you know, these communities depend on the

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fish and seafood from the coastal areas. And

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it's important that organizations like Rare help these communities

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as much as possible and provide them and empower them to

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be able to become resilient for a long time into the future.

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So, we have on a very special guest, Rocky Sanchez-Torona, who

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joined me from the Philippines to be able to talk about the

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program, how Fish Forever was built within the Philippines, how it

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grew by community and community, how they came to

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basically work with about 700 or 800 different types of

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villages, different governments, and how they're bringing mayors and

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government representatives from all over the world in

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small islands and other places where they're talking about protecting

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fish and how there's some similarities between some of the challenges that they have

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from Honduras to the Philippines to Mozambique to

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Mauritius and all different other types of islands. It's really interesting.

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It's something that I can't wait for you to listen to.

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So here is Rocky Sanchez-Torona from

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Rare talking about the Fish Forever program and the Coastal 500 program

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in the Philippines and elsewhere. Enjoy the interview and I will talk to

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you after. Hey, Rocky. Welcome

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to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about the

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wonderful i love the name coastal 500 almost sounds like a

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you know one of those f1 races or like those nascar races it's

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really sounds really exciting i'm looking forward to getting into this because this is

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how this conversation sort of came to be rocky and i you and i kind

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of got together because of a common colleague zach lowe

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who works for rare just like yourself and he was he reached out to

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me he's like andrew you know You've got to talk to Rocky about Coastal

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500. There's some new progress that's been made. We talked a little bit about

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it in my last conversation with Rare with Steve, but there's

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been so much that's happened since. I'm looking forward to getting into this

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conversation. But before we get into that, Rocky, why don't you just let the audience know

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Sure. So my name is Rocky. I'm based in Manila in

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the Philippines, and I am the managing director of

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a program called Fish Forever at Rare. We

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work with local communities and local governments to help them

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It's quite an interesting program because you

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work in the Philippines, obviously, but there are a lot of

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fishing villages in and around the Philippines who rely

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heavily on fishing for sustenance,

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for getting paid to feed their families, to

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get kids in school. That's a

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really cool thing, a really cool program to be

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a part of. How did you get to

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working with Rare? Where did your interest in this type

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So I have always loved the ocean. I'm a big

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scuba diver. I've been doing it for almost 30 years now. And

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so any excuse to get in the water, I will

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take it. My

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first life was actually in marketing and advertising communications.

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I'm sorry I sold a lot of shampoo.

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But increasingly, over time, I really wanted to try

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and see whether those skills could be applied to

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B3D, the things I really cared about. And when

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I heard about RARE, it felt like the perfect fit. RARE

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is focused on the human aspects of environment

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and conservation, and really understanding how

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you can help people become solutions to

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environmental challenges. And so I thought that at

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least my background in help understanding

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human behavior and really thinking about the

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ways that can move people can be useful. So I joined RARE

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and that came at a time when RARE was just

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starting Fish Forever in the Philippines. And like, so

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I finally found myself in a position where I could use my skills and

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Now, that's quite exciting to be able to want

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a position very similar to this. It obviously matches up

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very well to your skill set and your experiences in

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marketing and communications from before. But Rare

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is that kind of organization. It's a rare organization, no pun intended,

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of an organization that's built on

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marine conservation principles, but really focusing on

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people. Now, I have to admit, a lot

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of times when someone says, oh, I'm involved with an organization that

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protects the ocean, when you started to

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look at things that were important to you, which I assume were ocean

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protection and conservation and things like that, did

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you think organizations like RARE, being

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out of the field of marine conservation, did you think organizations

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like Rare existed? Have you ever met or learned about

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No, I had been dabbling in another

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NGO, I was volunteering for the board and it was very focused on

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reefs and kind of like, you know, so I learned how

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to do transects and count fish and

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things like that. But I hadn't really

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thought about really putting all

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the effort or I guess predominant, you know, a large part

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of the effort really on the people side of things. I mean, It

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felt like a no-brainer, and I was really glad to

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see that Rare had really positioned

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itself squarely in that space. And

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Rare doesn't just work on marine, it's really the

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understanding that you can apply behavioral insights to

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any sort of environmental challenge, right? There's

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So is that why you got into marketing and communications in the first place

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was more of the psychology behind, you

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know, putting out messaging for whether you're

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Yeah, I think so. I was actually a psych major in college.

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That was my next question. Yeah. And but

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I also like to write so so so it felt again, it

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I sort of like fall into these things where, yeah, oh, okay, here's where

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I kind of are interested in people, but I can

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write and I'm creative. So And I stayed there

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for quite a long time because it's a fun industry, you learn a

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lot, there's a lot of interesting things

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to do. And even within that field, I

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started gravitating towards communications projects that

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were really focused on social impact and

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behavior change. and advocacy. So that's

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where I was happiest, right? And that's actually

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how I met Rare. Rare was my client first.

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And I said, hey, they're really cool. They do these things and

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I can help. So when I said I want to make the jump, I

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really came to Rare and said, what can I do for you? I mean,

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So before you met Rare, though, and you were doing this, seems like

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a consultancy, what other type of social impact projects

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I did a lot of work on family planning. And

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that's another big one, right? Health, vaccination, and

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kind of just health, good governance is

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another thing, anti-corruption kind of activity. So I

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think that gave me a really good view of society

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and kind of like systems, right? And so I

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kind of know what are the levers.

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We had a client that was great at education, for

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example, and education governance. And I still see a lot of

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those parallels to the work we're doing now on environment, right?

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And the role that local governments, for example, play.

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Yeah, no doubt. It's really interesting. When

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you first started working with Rare, was it this project, like the Coastal 500 that

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So in the beginning, actually,

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this Fish Forever actually has expanded and grown. When

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we started it, When I started at Rare, it was

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just starting and basically what we were trying to

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figure out was how you can get

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communities to manage

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the fishing effort around protected areas so

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that they could kind of

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like reap better benefits than just kind of

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closing off areas. The premise was

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that Having these communities

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have exclusive rights or preferential rights to fish in

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an area gives them reason to actually

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protect and manage more sustainably because they're the

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ones that are going to benefit from the catch. So

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we started out by just kind of proving that that was true and

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that we could do that and figure out what's the policy

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that needs to be in place so that that can happen. And

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we started doing that in the Philippines and it took off. And

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really, people got excited. The first time

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we did it, there were communities

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that said, wow, we've been doing marine protected areas

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for years. And while

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we saw the impact of that, this is the missing piece.

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This is the part where now we know that we're the ones that are

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fishing around it. And therefore, we

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have good reason to change our gear, to cooperate with each

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other. follow more rules, right? So it becomes a much more

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holistic kind of protection. So that's

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Yeah. So for the Fish Forever, like so before Fish Forever kind of

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was built in the Philippines or was brought to the Philippines, before

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it was what people would just say, here's a marine protected area, you have to

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follow the rules. Go protect it. But

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the fishing villages didn't really completely understand

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I think the benefits were sort of limited. So

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yeah, so before I joined Rare, actually

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the first, Rare got

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known for what are called pride campaigns. They

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would teach communities how to

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run behavior change campaigns around certain solutions. So

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the first round of work in the Philippines were there

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were these protected areas and then they added on these behavior change

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campaigns and they were excited because the fish came back

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and people were really all on board. But then the fishers

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would say, we've been doing all this work protecting and then other people

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come and fish. in the area around the protected area

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and we're still poor, right? So that's the

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piece that was missing. That's the part that said, okay, if

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we then try and manage how you're fishing in the areas around

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the protected areas, and you're the ones that

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benefit from it, then you can actually stick to it longer. So

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that's how it expanded, and that's where we

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got, we started working much more closely with local governments in

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the Philippines, for example, because they have authority

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over all of these municipal waters. So now they saw,

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okay, that combination of protected areas, and

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then these areas where the fishers are following rules

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and changing their gears, they're benefiting from this, that

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becomes something that we can sustain and actually keep

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going because this is in effect the whole engine.

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So that's Fish Forever. And then

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when Coastal, we got the idea for Coastal 500 when

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we realized just how much power the local

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leaders, like the mayors that were on

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board, had in making change

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happen, right? So when you had a good, inspired mayor

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that really pushed things, made the right calls to policies,

242
00:15:40,674 --> 00:15:44,255
allocated budgets, showed up at these events and

243
00:15:44,895 --> 00:15:48,196
told fishers why it was important to do this, things moved

244
00:15:48,236 --> 00:15:51,857
a lot faster and it really paid off. So

245
00:15:51,897 --> 00:15:55,278
we thought then the next logical step is to bring these mayors

246
00:15:55,318 --> 00:15:59,040
together. so that they could learn from each other, inspire each

247
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:02,482
other, and actually kind of like become a

248
00:16:04,583 --> 00:16:08,046
That's really interesting. Okay. And so now that,

249
00:16:08,386 --> 00:16:12,369
so coastal, so you had Fish Forever that really helped show

250
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:16,071
the benefits of a little extra management around

251
00:16:16,091 --> 00:16:19,433
the marine protected areas, so that the

252
00:16:19,693 --> 00:16:23,256
local area would benefit more instead of having everybody else

253
00:16:23,316 --> 00:16:26,518
come in and and benefit from this protected area, even though they didn't really

254
00:16:26,578 --> 00:16:30,640
necessarily make the sacrifices that, you know, the local fishers

255
00:16:31,501 --> 00:16:34,603
would do. And then Coastal 500 kind of expanded on

256
00:16:34,643 --> 00:16:38,265
that, where it started to bring in the local mayors

257
00:16:38,785 --> 00:16:42,248
and other bodies like municipal and regional bodies

258
00:16:42,288 --> 00:16:45,850
to say, hey, let's expand on these protections. Am

259
00:16:46,590 --> 00:16:49,812
I understanding that right? And so they got more involved. So

260
00:16:50,172 --> 00:16:53,714
for the mayors to get more involved, I guess it's

261
00:16:53,755 --> 00:16:57,377
interesting when you have local management where there's

262
00:16:57,397 --> 00:17:00,679
a community that's managing it. But then when the government comes in

263
00:17:01,179 --> 00:17:04,821
and says, OK, we're going to manage this a little bit more, does there need to be community and

264
00:17:12,183 --> 00:17:15,998
Yeah, so that's where the idea of co-management comes

265
00:17:16,058 --> 00:17:19,316
in. Depending on the

266
00:17:19,716 --> 00:17:23,439
country you're in, the level of authority that's

267
00:17:23,499 --> 00:17:27,002
devolved to local governments varies. We

268
00:17:27,122 --> 00:17:30,364
were lucky to have been starting it in the Philippines, where

269
00:17:30,425 --> 00:17:33,947
there's really a fully devolved local government, so

270
00:17:33,967 --> 00:17:38,711
they have authority over these waters. And

271
00:17:39,752 --> 00:17:43,195
the challenge was to convince the local government that they actually

272
00:17:43,215 --> 00:17:46,557
get better work done and have

273
00:17:46,617 --> 00:17:50,059
more success if they work with the community from

274
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:55,092
the get-go. to gather the

275
00:17:55,272 --> 00:17:58,514
representatives from the local government and leaders of the, let's

276
00:17:58,534 --> 00:18:01,935
say, the fishers, if they're the ones saying, oh, this is the area

277
00:18:01,975 --> 00:18:06,898
that needs protection. These are the kinds of rules that will work.

278
00:18:07,458 --> 00:18:10,579
And then everybody agrees on that and it's turned into policy by

279
00:18:10,619 --> 00:18:15,182
the local government, then it's much easier to enforce and

280
00:18:15,502 --> 00:18:19,063
the community will support it more

281
00:18:20,544 --> 00:18:24,274
When you get the buy-in from the community, so the

282
00:18:24,334 --> 00:18:27,382
legislation, the laws that get passed end up being a

283
00:18:27,442 --> 00:18:30,695
lot stronger because you have the buy-in from the community. It makes the

284
00:18:30,735 --> 00:18:34,398
government look good because they're passing laws that are actually seeing change

285
00:18:34,838 --> 00:18:38,160
because they have the buy-in, because they've already done the work. How much

286
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,183
work is it for those mayors

287
00:18:42,223 --> 00:18:45,465
and government to talk and,

288
00:18:45,765 --> 00:18:48,927
I guess, negotiate with the community? I mean,

289
00:18:48,967 --> 00:18:52,349
there's got to be times where there's a bit of conflict, right?

290
00:18:52,369 --> 00:18:55,431
Not everybody's going to see eye to eye. There's trust to be

291
00:18:55,451 --> 00:18:58,733
built. There may have already been trust

292
00:18:58,793 --> 00:19:02,294
issues. You never know, like I live in Canada and I know there's trust issues between

293
00:19:02,314 --> 00:19:05,496
the government and everyone. So I can imagine, you know, a

294
00:19:05,556 --> 00:19:09,277
small state where there's maybe more contact with the government. There's

295
00:19:09,317 --> 00:19:13,779
probably some trust issues there. How

296
00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:17,921
does that happen? Like, does that happen often? And then how does

297
00:19:22,363 --> 00:19:25,544
So that's, I think that's a large part of what we do,

298
00:19:25,684 --> 00:19:28,965
kind of like facilitating that process to get

299
00:19:29,005 --> 00:19:32,646
to agreement and then kind of like helping them

300
00:19:32,726 --> 00:19:36,147
sustain it. I think the key pieces there

301
00:19:36,467 --> 00:19:39,967
are finding the right people in the local government

302
00:19:40,208 --> 00:19:43,828
that can lead that process and then building their

303
00:19:43,848 --> 00:19:47,349
capacity and helping them, arm them with the tools

304
00:19:47,449 --> 00:19:50,590
and skills needed. So for example, If you're

305
00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:53,911
going to go into a community and you know you're going to have to start

306
00:19:53,951 --> 00:19:57,352
that difficult conversation of, hey, we're going to have to protect certain areas

307
00:19:57,452 --> 00:20:00,653
or we're going to have to impose new rules, right? How do

308
00:20:00,673 --> 00:20:03,994
you have that conversation so that they're

309
00:20:04,074 --> 00:20:07,414
open to the idea and kind of like go

310
00:20:07,474 --> 00:20:10,775
with you along the way? So that's where we give them things like, here's

311
00:20:10,815 --> 00:20:14,436
a fish game where if you run it in the community, people

312
00:20:14,496 --> 00:20:19,358
play, they come to realizations about kind

313
00:20:19,398 --> 00:20:22,659
of like how things are and what will happen if we keep them the

314
00:20:22,699 --> 00:20:26,000
way they are, if we don't make any changes. But they

315
00:20:26,020 --> 00:20:29,302
do it in a safe, friendly way where they're having

316
00:20:29,362 --> 00:20:32,523
fun and they're much more willing to have

317
00:20:32,563 --> 00:20:36,165
that conversation afterwards. So providing those

318
00:20:36,225 --> 00:20:39,807
kinds of trainings and tools and processes, I

319
00:20:39,847 --> 00:20:43,109
think is where we come in. And that's where our

320
00:20:43,149 --> 00:20:46,831
partners have kind of said, we really appreciate you

321
00:20:47,191 --> 00:20:50,573
helping us do this and helping us

322
00:20:50,633 --> 00:20:54,415
also translate science in a way that's easier

323
00:20:54,495 --> 00:20:57,657
to absorb and kind of like exactly what is

324
00:21:01,499 --> 00:21:05,282
Right. And it's interesting because Rare has a really good reputation for

325
00:21:05,362 --> 00:21:09,851
working in collaboration with communities. You mentioned it like partners. It's

326
00:21:09,891 --> 00:21:13,093
not as if, you know, Rare is going in, it's like, you need to do this, you need to do this, you

327
00:21:13,133 --> 00:21:16,235
need to do this. A lot of the times from my understanding is you come in and it's

328
00:21:16,255 --> 00:21:19,717
like, hey, what help do you need? Like, what are your challenges that you're facing?

329
00:21:20,177 --> 00:21:23,700
So Rare continues to do that. So I assume

330
00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:27,282
like a lot of the times, once you get a reputation within some villages

331
00:21:27,322 --> 00:21:30,544
and some coastal communities, I assume other communities might be

332
00:21:30,604 --> 00:21:33,887
inviting you to help them and have conversations with

333
00:21:36,930 --> 00:21:41,075
Yes, exactly. And that's sort of how we've been growing, where

334
00:21:41,696 --> 00:21:48,524
one community does it and then their neighbors say they want to do it.

335
00:21:57,483 --> 00:22:01,105
local governments. So we've helped them come together as

336
00:22:01,145 --> 00:22:04,366
an alliance so that they can coordinate among themselves and

337
00:22:04,426 --> 00:22:07,807
share resources as well. So that's sort of like a

338
00:22:10,609 --> 00:22:14,010
And I think that kind of comes to sort of the name Coastal 500. Can

339
00:22:14,450 --> 00:22:17,812
you just sort of describe what the 500, obviously coastal is

340
00:22:22,014 --> 00:22:25,918
So 500 was sort of like the aspirational

341
00:22:25,978 --> 00:22:29,681
number. If we had 500 local governments doing this, we

342
00:22:29,721 --> 00:22:35,347
could actually cover this

343
00:22:35,387 --> 00:22:38,630
many communities and this many people. It also

344
00:22:47,298 --> 00:22:50,961
And we know we will exceed it. I think what we're hoping for is by 2025, we're

345
00:22:50,981 --> 00:23:02,971
doing 500 communities. By 2030, hopefully we have 5,000. then

346
00:23:03,091 --> 00:23:06,775
we will figure out the ways that we can pass

347
00:23:06,935 --> 00:23:11,739
on more resources, more learning, more connections in

348
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,084
ways that don't maybe a little less intensive on

349
00:23:21,628 --> 00:23:25,412
So are you looking at 500 communities within the Philippines

350
00:23:25,512 --> 00:23:28,995
or is this 500 communities almost across the world, right?

351
00:23:29,565 --> 00:23:33,490
Right now, we have 170 or so member

352
00:23:34,792 --> 00:23:41,720
communities in seven countries. Right

353
00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:45,425
now, those are also areas where we're directly working

354
00:23:45,665 --> 00:23:48,909
as RARE, so RARE staff are on the ground. working with these

355
00:23:48,929 --> 00:23:52,511
communities. We wanna get to a point soon where

356
00:23:52,611 --> 00:23:56,073
we can open up membership to others, where

357
00:23:56,473 --> 00:24:00,376
they'll just get kind of like a set of tools and resources and

358
00:24:00,476 --> 00:24:03,878
links, connections to the others, and then they can do things

359
00:24:05,699 --> 00:24:08,901
It's more scaling it, because you can only be

360
00:24:09,141 --> 00:24:13,583
in so many places, right? Right. How

361
00:24:13,764 --> 00:24:17,045
many communities right now are working on

362
00:24:17,105 --> 00:24:20,427
this program within the Philippines itself? Because I feel like

363
00:24:20,788 --> 00:24:23,909
just with the way that the island's shaped, the country's shaped, there are

364
00:24:23,949 --> 00:24:27,291
a lot of sort of archipelagos and ins

365
00:24:28,992 --> 00:24:34,696
So how many communities? We have 75 local

366
00:24:34,736 --> 00:24:38,518
governments that are members of Coastal 500. They

367
00:24:38,578 --> 00:24:42,000
represent, I think, something

368
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,834
like 700 or 800 communities

369
00:24:46,894 --> 00:24:50,402
or villages actually. Wow. Within that,

370
00:24:53,248 --> 00:24:56,509
That's a lot. We think it's

371
00:24:56,569 --> 00:25:00,312
about almost, we're at about 9% of

372
00:25:00,773 --> 00:25:04,336
all the coastal municipalities in

373
00:25:04,376 --> 00:25:07,839
the Philippines. So it's a lot. It's

374
00:25:07,899 --> 00:25:11,482
a lot. Yeah. And it's

375
00:25:11,562 --> 00:25:15,205
nice because

376
00:25:15,225 --> 00:25:18,848
of that devolution, right? There really is a clear mandate for

377
00:25:18,928 --> 00:25:23,172
local governments to do this for their constituents.

378
00:25:23,392 --> 00:25:27,135
So it's very aligned. The government understands

379
00:25:27,195 --> 00:25:31,999
this. The Department of Interior supports that. And

380
00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:35,361
the mayors are kind of like really also see the value

381
00:25:39,645 --> 00:25:42,907
So for RARE, do you have a system where you

382
00:25:42,947 --> 00:25:46,370
evaluate the sort

383
00:25:52,289 --> 00:25:55,433
I would imagine too, because I

384
00:25:55,473 --> 00:25:58,617
would imagine each community has their own goals that they want

385
00:25:58,637 --> 00:26:02,222
to set that are probably very different by region

386
00:26:04,990 --> 00:26:08,195
Right, so we do have a number of indicators that

387
00:26:08,235 --> 00:26:11,980
we're tracking like you know the number of hectares that

388
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,205
are under strict protection or no take, the number of

389
00:26:15,265 --> 00:26:18,409
hectares that are under some form of management, so

390
00:26:18,449 --> 00:26:22,014
that's sort of like at the very loose end. We try to figure

391
00:26:22,174 --> 00:26:26,399
out whether there's an actual management body that's established

392
00:26:26,499 --> 00:26:29,863
and meeting. That kind of means

393
00:26:29,923 --> 00:26:33,708
it's functional in some way. And then we

394
00:26:33,788 --> 00:26:37,131
are also gathering data where we can. about

395
00:26:37,611 --> 00:26:41,593
the ecological impacts. So the amount

396
00:26:41,633 --> 00:26:46,275
of fish in the water, the biomass and the abundance of

397
00:26:46,335 --> 00:26:49,436
the fish of certain species that are important to the community. So

398
00:26:49,456 --> 00:26:53,137
we're tracking that. We're doing household surveys and tracking

399
00:26:53,737 --> 00:26:57,399
changes in how people are feeling. Are they feeling more positive? Are

400
00:26:57,419 --> 00:27:01,640
they feeling like food secure or livelihood secure

401
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:05,733
kind of thing? But it's It's a lot

402
00:27:05,773 --> 00:27:09,094
of places and the more we scale, the less able we

403
00:27:09,174 --> 00:27:13,195
are to kind of like have data constantly. So

404
00:27:13,215 --> 00:27:16,636
we're sort of thinking about what are the quick

405
00:27:16,736 --> 00:27:19,977
ways that we can keep doing this for years so that we

406
00:27:20,037 --> 00:27:23,097
really know what's happening. Because even in

407
00:27:23,137 --> 00:27:26,278
the places where we're tracking, we'll see, okay, doing well, doing well, and

408
00:27:26,298 --> 00:27:29,959
then a typhoon kind of like wipes out the coral and

409
00:27:30,019 --> 00:27:36,361
then it all drops. So again, try again. understanding

410
00:27:39,742 --> 00:27:43,563
Yeah, changes happen. I mean, even like a global pandemic, you

411
00:27:43,603 --> 00:27:47,324
know, that probably changes things as well as you go through depending

412
00:27:47,425 --> 00:27:50,686
on where you live. And, you know, changes happen,

413
00:27:50,726 --> 00:27:53,907
especially with the storms these years. I know, you

414
00:27:54,627 --> 00:27:58,729
know, in North America and the Caribbean, we're expecting probably our worst hurricanes

415
00:27:59,029 --> 00:28:02,511
a season. yet, you know, the record. I

416
00:28:02,531 --> 00:28:06,573
would imagine the same thing is similar in your

417
00:28:06,653 --> 00:28:09,935
area, like you're part of the world in Southeast Asia. And

418
00:28:10,495 --> 00:28:13,877
so it could be interesting. I mean, changes do happen,

419
00:28:14,417 --> 00:28:17,839
you know, and there are a lot of changes in the environment that can happen

420
00:28:17,859 --> 00:28:21,341
that will affect communities. And I think it's funny because when

421
00:28:21,401 --> 00:28:24,763
you do evaluation programs, you're always looking for

422
00:28:25,473 --> 00:28:28,737
Positive outcomes and if the positive outcomes don't hit you're like, well, what's

423
00:28:28,777 --> 00:28:31,961
wrong with the program? But that doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong

424
00:28:31,981 --> 00:28:35,284
with the program It could just be like you said a typhoon comes in wipes

425
00:28:35,324 --> 00:28:38,588
out the corals or ruins the corals that habitats gone So

426
00:28:38,608 --> 00:28:42,152
it might take a year six months a couple years to

427
00:28:42,212 --> 00:28:45,857
rebuild and rebuild that fishery but I think having

428
00:28:47,130 --> 00:28:50,634
And having that program in that evaluation program and tracking it

429
00:28:50,694 --> 00:28:54,037
through, you can see how fast the recovery might

430
00:28:54,097 --> 00:28:57,380
be. And once you start getting that information, you

431
00:28:57,420 --> 00:29:00,763
can better predict what's going to happen. So if

432
00:29:00,804 --> 00:29:04,147
a typhoon hits, as you mentioned, coral gets ruined.

433
00:29:04,626 --> 00:29:07,930
The next time that happens after you rebuild, what worked

434
00:29:07,970 --> 00:29:11,473
last time to help rebuild it faster? How did the community get

435
00:29:11,493 --> 00:29:14,576
involved? How did the local government get involved? Is

436
00:29:14,596 --> 00:29:18,140
there funding to help that? You can build almost programs from

437
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,444
that, right? Like that adaptation would probably be a lot

438
00:29:21,604 --> 00:29:24,827
more helpful from programs like that. Is that sort of where you're

439
00:29:28,449 --> 00:29:32,510
Exactly, yeah. And I think increasingly we're recognizing

440
00:29:32,530 --> 00:29:36,031
that resilience really comes from

441
00:29:36,551 --> 00:29:39,712
having people that can work together, that kind of

442
00:29:39,812 --> 00:29:43,633
know what to do, so that they can act on changes

443
00:29:44,254 --> 00:29:47,494
and respond to them and adapt, right? And

444
00:29:47,895 --> 00:29:51,216
increasingly that's what we're after, I

445
00:29:51,616 --> 00:29:55,197
think. Gotcha. Yeah, so even things like,

446
00:29:56,017 --> 00:29:59,318
in a way, we've been seeing kind of like, we've been adding

447
00:29:59,438 --> 00:30:02,579
things to the program that help enhance that. So, for

448
00:30:02,619 --> 00:30:06,500
example, financial resilience, right,

449
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,382
of households. So, we've got these savings clubs that

450
00:30:10,422 --> 00:30:14,123
are being formed in the communities. They're keeping money. Next

451
00:30:14,163 --> 00:30:17,624
time a typhoon comes, they're actually able to draw from those savings.

452
00:30:18,304 --> 00:30:21,986
So, those are things that enable them to then sustain the

453
00:30:22,766 --> 00:30:25,927
good practices that they're doing because they

454
00:30:25,948 --> 00:30:29,349
have that. And having

455
00:30:29,449 --> 00:30:33,031
leaders that can read that and kind of understand that

456
00:30:33,191 --> 00:30:36,733
that's what we need to keep pushing, I think it's important.

457
00:30:37,013 --> 00:30:40,655
So it's almost building that capacity to understand, here

458
00:30:40,675 --> 00:30:43,796
are the environmental changes that could happen, here's how it's affecting the

459
00:30:43,836 --> 00:30:47,234
community. We have the data, you know and now you can track

460
00:30:47,294 --> 00:30:50,516
it and now you can be better prepared for it and each community can

461
00:30:50,556 --> 00:30:54,018
be better prepared for it instead of just sort of going through the motions and

462
00:30:54,358 --> 00:30:58,540
never knowing what to do afterwards. Do you find that

463
00:30:58,620 --> 00:31:02,162
change is already happening like you're already starting to see positive outcomes

464
00:31:02,363 --> 00:31:05,454
from you know, storm coming through and

465
00:31:05,494 --> 00:31:08,718
people, you know, there's there's a bit of savings or is it too early in the program to

466
00:31:09,098 --> 00:31:12,522
No, so those we've seen. In fact, I love savings

467
00:31:12,622 --> 00:31:17,507
clubs because they're sort of like quick return, right?

468
00:31:17,587 --> 00:31:20,890
A nine month cycle, they'll already have money while

469
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:27,757
you're while the fish take seven years to recover. There

470
00:31:28,057 --> 00:31:34,678
are days where we joke, let's just put up savings clouds. The

471
00:31:34,699 --> 00:31:38,759
payback is, the emotional payback is

472
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:42,580
faster. But yeah, so we see those. We've

473
00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:46,181
seen examples where because they were organized and

474
00:31:46,461 --> 00:31:50,082
kind of like working together when a typhoon comes, they're actually

475
00:31:50,142 --> 00:31:53,362
the team that actually helps the rebuild and

476
00:31:54,203 --> 00:31:58,304
kind of like does the you

477
00:31:58,344 --> 00:32:02,086
know, in one place, they actually, two days after the typhoon hit

478
00:32:02,266 --> 00:32:05,728
their town and their houses were destroyed, they were actually back in the water putting

479
00:32:05,788 --> 00:32:09,110
back the marker buoys for the protected areas, right?

480
00:32:09,150 --> 00:32:12,712
So, because they know that that's important and they

481
00:32:12,812 --> 00:32:16,294
know that they actually saw it for themselves that

482
00:32:17,134 --> 00:32:20,676
in the period right after the typhoon, they could get food

483
00:32:20,936 --> 00:32:25,012
from the marine protected area. Because it was already there. Yeah.

484
00:32:28,375 --> 00:32:31,518
Oh, that's really cool. That's really cool. I love to

485
00:32:31,538 --> 00:32:34,761
hear that. That's that's amazing. Instead of before, if

486
00:32:34,801 --> 00:32:38,104
there was no marine protected area, everybody's fishing wherever that

487
00:32:38,144 --> 00:32:41,767
could have been overfished a long time ago. So when a typhoon hits,

488
00:32:41,807 --> 00:32:44,989
you're not going to get anything. At least now you can get something and

489
00:32:45,009 --> 00:32:48,773
you can still feed your families. You can still pay for food, like, you

490
00:32:48,793 --> 00:32:52,436
know, basically support your families and things like that and support

491
00:32:52,476 --> 00:32:57,010
a living. That's amazing just to think about that.

492
00:32:57,811 --> 00:33:01,014
Now, it's interesting to work with regions and

493
00:33:01,034 --> 00:33:04,617
different villages, as you mentioned, 700, 800 villages

494
00:33:04,697 --> 00:33:08,280
and talking about different regional governments. But

495
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,603
recently, you guys had a meeting, and I think it was in the last few months,

496
00:33:11,703 --> 00:33:15,406
where you brought those leaders from the communities, the mayors

497
00:33:15,486 --> 00:33:19,148
and from those governments. into one area. Was it Manila? Was

498
00:33:20,368 --> 00:33:24,129
No, we went to Siargao in the Philippines.

499
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:28,711
That's a set of islands in the southern, southeastern

500
00:33:28,751 --> 00:33:32,652
part of the Philippines. We had, including

501
00:33:32,692 --> 00:33:36,213
the Philippine mayors, we had 16 mayors from six

502
00:33:41,514 --> 00:33:45,057
Different countries, yeah. Oh, cool, cool. So we had mayors

503
00:33:45,098 --> 00:33:48,623
from Honduras, Guatemala, district

504
00:33:48,703 --> 00:33:52,328
administrators from Mozambique, representatives of

505
00:33:52,348 --> 00:33:56,214
the local government from Brazil, from Honduras and then Indonesia.

506
00:33:58,497 --> 00:34:02,619
Palau, a governor from Palau was there, yeah.

507
00:34:02,899 --> 00:34:06,280
And they spent a week in the Philippines and it was nice

508
00:34:06,380 --> 00:34:10,222
because it was a series of things. The first two

509
00:34:10,262 --> 00:34:14,544
days were about visiting communities

510
00:34:15,124 --> 00:34:19,206
in Siargao, so two separate local governments hosted

511
00:34:19,246 --> 00:34:22,788
them for the day where they kind of saw different aspects

512
00:34:22,988 --> 00:34:26,729
of coastal resource management, right? So on

513
00:34:26,769 --> 00:34:30,212
the first day it was kind of like the protected area, the

514
00:34:30,272 --> 00:34:34,877
enforcement, the kind of like policies that

515
00:34:35,378 --> 00:34:38,581
the local government had passed. And then they talked to

516
00:34:38,621 --> 00:34:41,944
savings clubs. On the second day, it

517
00:34:42,025 --> 00:34:46,529
was a kind of like the ecotourism component of

518
00:34:46,649 --> 00:34:50,212
the work that the local government was doing. along with

519
00:34:50,472 --> 00:34:54,193
additional social protection programs that they had implemented

520
00:34:54,253 --> 00:34:57,874
for their fishers, so insurance links to the government projects,

521
00:34:57,934 --> 00:35:01,215
etc. So, those were like the field

522
00:35:01,255 --> 00:35:04,916
trips, and then in the afternoons, they would come back together and

523
00:35:04,956 --> 00:35:08,416
sort of brainstorm what this meant for them and

524
00:35:08,837 --> 00:35:13,578
kind of like things that they would want to do. in their own countries

525
00:35:13,778 --> 00:35:17,299
and communities, right? And then we got them together to

526
00:35:17,319 --> 00:35:21,460
then also think about, okay, as a network, what could you do together?

527
00:35:22,421 --> 00:35:25,862
So, we see that sometimes in alliances when

528
00:35:25,882 --> 00:35:29,683
they're kind of like associated and they'll say, okay, we'll do a joint enforcement plan,

529
00:35:29,763 --> 00:35:32,924
etc. At the national level, they can

530
00:35:33,084 --> 00:35:38,085
become a real powerful force for advocacy. In

531
00:35:38,125 --> 00:35:42,047
Honduras, the mayors all along this one bay have

532
00:35:42,107 --> 00:35:45,348
been working with the national agency to push

533
00:35:45,388 --> 00:35:49,911
for a law that will exclude industrial

534
00:35:49,971 --> 00:35:53,434
fishing from 12 nautical miles to really

535
00:35:53,474 --> 00:35:57,357
kind of like protect 12 nautical miles and reserve it for artisanal fishers

536
00:35:57,917 --> 00:36:01,139
and the communities that depend on them. And that will also take out

537
00:36:01,820 --> 00:36:05,443
some of the more destructive fishing practices like bottom trawling.

538
00:36:06,143 --> 00:36:09,366
And if they were just going like one or two mayors tried to do

539
00:36:09,406 --> 00:36:13,970
that, it probably wouldn't work. But the fact that they had 16, that made

540
00:36:16,091 --> 00:36:20,075
Yeah, nice. Yeah, so that's super exciting and

541
00:36:20,435 --> 00:36:23,918
it fires up the, yeah, it gets action

542
00:36:23,998 --> 00:36:27,721
from national government and the communities feel

543
00:36:27,741 --> 00:36:31,104
like they have somebody backing

544
00:36:31,144 --> 00:36:34,407
them up, right? Right. So that's exciting. And then we

545
00:36:34,587 --> 00:36:38,470
also have been taking the mayors to global events. So our

546
00:36:38,510 --> 00:36:42,834
mayors have spoken at the UNFCCC COP,

547
00:36:42,954 --> 00:36:46,397
they've spoken at our oceans and the CBD,

548
00:36:46,457 --> 00:36:49,620
right? And it's a way to elevate the voices of

549
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:53,824
local I think that's one of the other very important pieces

550
00:36:53,864 --> 00:36:57,087
here. As the world talks about protecting the

551
00:36:57,387 --> 00:37:01,031
ocean, land, and sea, and hitting these targets, we

552
00:37:01,071 --> 00:37:07,136
have to make sure that we're not forgetting that so many

553
00:37:07,156 --> 00:37:11,120
people depend on these coastal waters, and

554
00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:14,742
that they actually have the power to

555
00:37:15,522 --> 00:37:19,163
make change happen and sustain it because they're the ones closest

556
00:37:21,444 --> 00:37:24,585
That is so cool. That is awesome. So we're

557
00:37:24,605 --> 00:37:28,566
seeing a lot of power in that and even sharing among

558
00:37:28,986 --> 00:37:32,167
sort of global leaders in this has probably helped. Were

559
00:37:32,187 --> 00:37:35,688
there any sort of benefits that we saw? I know it's still soon

560
00:37:36,068 --> 00:37:39,229
to tell because they just met a couple of months ago, but did

561
00:37:39,249 --> 00:37:42,895
you hear of talk of being excited of learning to

562
00:37:57,028 --> 00:38:00,389
Yeah, I think that really came through where

563
00:38:00,429 --> 00:38:04,009
they said, I'm going to copy that, or I'm going to

564
00:38:04,049 --> 00:38:07,410
do that thing. Because in

565
00:38:07,470 --> 00:38:11,371
a way, they're all really working the same problem. And

566
00:38:11,411 --> 00:38:15,871
there's a general similar solution, but how

567
00:38:15,931 --> 00:38:19,112
it's adapted or how it plays out, those are the ones where you really need to

568
00:38:19,152 --> 00:38:22,373
see somebody else doing it and

569
00:38:24,973 --> 00:38:28,278
Yeah, even offering advice on how to go about doing

570
00:38:28,358 --> 00:38:31,963
it, more mayors together, more advocacy power, even

571
00:38:32,023 --> 00:38:35,678
just sort of the structure, the framework of how to do it. could

572
00:38:35,698 --> 00:38:39,302
probably help a lot. And I guess now they're probably going to just be in constant

573
00:38:39,342 --> 00:38:42,745
connection. You know, they've met each other. They, you

574
00:38:45,288 --> 00:38:48,811
Yeah, we've set up a WhatsApp community. Oh, you know, WhatsApp

575
00:38:48,911 --> 00:38:52,675
is just texting back and forth, talking to each other. I love it.

576
00:38:52,835 --> 00:38:56,198
And hopefully we're trying to drive more of like, show, you know, send

577
00:38:56,238 --> 00:38:59,722
a picture of what you did to get other people excited. Yeah.

578
00:39:00,553 --> 00:39:04,214
Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. I'm sure that communication will

579
00:39:04,254 --> 00:39:07,696
develop as you go along to do that stuff.

580
00:39:07,736 --> 00:39:12,517
There seems to be a lot of great things on this program. And

581
00:39:12,537 --> 00:39:16,859
it seems to be just getting bigger and bigger. How

582
00:39:17,339 --> 00:39:21,021
is Rare trying to grow this program to include

583
00:39:31,428 --> 00:39:34,712
One very big element of this is really

584
00:39:34,752 --> 00:39:38,877
kind of rethinking our delivery pathways. As

585
00:39:38,957 --> 00:39:42,401
I explained earlier, for the longest time,

586
00:39:42,481 --> 00:39:45,845
we got where we were by really having people on the ground

587
00:39:45,925 --> 00:39:49,448
working closely with every local government

588
00:39:49,649 --> 00:39:53,253
or community and kind of like walking them through the process. So

589
00:39:53,293 --> 00:39:56,396
we are still doing that, and that's an important part of the

590
00:39:56,436 --> 00:39:59,800
work. But we're also really trying to figure

591
00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:03,624
out ways that we can pass it on to others. So

592
00:40:03,664 --> 00:40:07,407
we're working with, let's say, provincial governments. where

593
00:40:07,447 --> 00:40:11,130
we're training their staff on how to work with local governments so

594
00:40:11,170 --> 00:40:15,272
that they can help them do certain things, or

595
00:40:15,432 --> 00:40:19,455
universities, for example, and again, downloading elements

596
00:40:19,955 --> 00:40:23,717
of the program in that way. Coastal 500 is,

597
00:40:23,777 --> 00:40:27,119
in effect, another piece of it where it's really

598
00:40:27,179 --> 00:40:30,261
lighter touch, where it's about influence and

599
00:40:30,401 --> 00:40:35,011
access to others into a network. Hopefully

600
00:40:35,151 --> 00:40:39,209
all of those kinds of things add up, right? and

601
00:40:39,229 --> 00:40:43,593
they come up to a growth and

602
00:40:43,653 --> 00:40:48,998
kind of like deeper, I guess wider reach. We're

603
00:40:49,038 --> 00:40:53,663
also exploring a lot of partnerships as well, either

604
00:40:53,803 --> 00:40:58,187
with other NGOs or other kind

605
00:40:58,207 --> 00:41:01,370
of like initiatives or programs where we can add

606
00:41:01,430 --> 00:41:04,933
value or just maybe do a component of it. as

607
00:41:04,973 --> 00:41:08,555
well. We're also looking at ways

608
00:41:08,736 --> 00:41:12,598
that, so some of the partnerships we're exploring are with

609
00:41:12,638 --> 00:41:16,180
groups that, let's say, fund local

610
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,782
organizations. So, you know, having a combination where

611
00:41:19,822 --> 00:41:23,325
they're providing the funding but we're providing the training would

612
00:41:25,466 --> 00:41:28,788
Yeah, getting more dedicated groups because they can spend more time

613
00:41:28,808 --> 00:41:32,086
on it because they're getting paid to do it. is probably a lot better than just

614
00:41:32,126 --> 00:41:35,969
having volunteers who have other jobs or other priorities. And

615
00:41:36,009 --> 00:41:39,171
then it's an extra thing on the board. I can I can see that happening a lot. I

616
00:41:39,211 --> 00:41:42,754
mean, you see that a lot with board of directors, right? If they're volunteering, some

617
00:41:42,774 --> 00:41:46,016
of them may be too busy to do the work that they need to volunteer as

618
00:41:48,358 --> 00:41:51,500
Some board members are more present than others. I would imagine the same thing with

619
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,842
communities if they they have the funding to actually spend

620
00:41:54,882 --> 00:41:58,143
some time on it and get the right resources for it. then

621
00:41:58,624 --> 00:42:02,009
it'll probably be a lot more dedicated to achieving those goals, right?

622
00:42:02,820 --> 00:42:06,201
Yeah, yeah. So we're trying to find ways to link

623
00:42:06,321 --> 00:42:09,882
our partners, our community partners to more sources

624
00:42:10,462 --> 00:42:14,202
Yeah, that's awesome. That's amazing. You

625
00:42:14,222 --> 00:42:17,523
know, you've done this for quite some time. You've seen a lot of different

626
00:42:17,563 --> 00:42:21,204
communities, you know, change over

627
00:42:21,244 --> 00:42:25,165
time. Can you talk about maybe one that really stuck

628
00:42:25,185 --> 00:42:28,285
in the back of your mind of just being like, this is this was a really cool to

629
00:42:31,915 --> 00:42:35,858
Sure. I

630
00:42:35,958 --> 00:42:39,480
visited a local government, this

631
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:44,243
is interesting because we started working in this area

632
00:42:44,323 --> 00:42:48,726
called Tanyan Strait in the Philippines back

633
00:42:48,766 --> 00:42:53,444
in 2010. This

634
00:42:53,544 --> 00:42:56,666
particular local government was actually not part of

635
00:42:56,706 --> 00:43:02,409
the first ones that we had worked with. So they were like a neighbor. And

636
00:43:02,449 --> 00:43:05,511
they were just there, but they're pretty strong and awesome on

637
00:43:05,531 --> 00:43:09,133
their own. They have good staff that have stayed there and

638
00:43:09,153 --> 00:43:13,005
they were doing things, but we hadn't kind of partnered with them. And

639
00:43:13,105 --> 00:43:19,167
then in 2017, we

640
00:43:19,207 --> 00:43:22,308
finally signed an MOU with them and

641
00:43:22,348 --> 00:43:25,869
they were part of a batch of communities in

642
00:43:25,909 --> 00:43:29,750
that area where we did kind of like almost just a light kind

643
00:43:29,810 --> 00:43:33,291
of intervention. We were experimenting to

644
00:43:33,331 --> 00:43:36,572
see how much lighter can we go, right? So

645
00:43:36,612 --> 00:43:41,554
that it's not so intensive and expensive. And

646
00:43:41,574 --> 00:43:45,116
they were like the star pupil in that cohort and kind of like ran

647
00:43:45,176 --> 00:43:48,338
with it, et cetera, and did things. And

648
00:43:48,378 --> 00:43:51,841
then at the tail end of that two-year

649
00:43:51,941 --> 00:43:55,443
engagement, they were also saying, oh, and you know what, we're going to pull together our

650
00:43:55,483 --> 00:43:59,506
neighbors and form an alliance. Oh, wow. So

651
00:43:59,526 --> 00:44:02,808
they went ahead and we helped a little bit in

652
00:44:02,888 --> 00:44:06,110
terms of kind of like, oh, here, Manuel is here. But they kind

653
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:09,773
of ran with it. They worked with the provincial government. I visited them

654
00:44:09,853 --> 00:44:13,396
recently, and they were showing me stuff like,

655
00:44:13,476 --> 00:44:16,959
here's the roadmap that you showed us, and we still do

656
00:44:17,019 --> 00:44:20,622
this. That is so cool. So

657
00:44:20,662 --> 00:44:24,225
to me, that's kind of like, that's our dream,

658
00:44:24,325 --> 00:44:31,171
right? And they were, even now, they're functioning

659
00:44:31,271 --> 00:44:34,816
as the lead in that alliance where

660
00:44:34,856 --> 00:44:38,161
they're actually sending their divers to help

661
00:44:38,241 --> 00:44:42,848
do ecological surveys in the other communities. Wow.

662
00:44:45,262 --> 00:44:48,766
Yeah, that's so cool. Like to be able to see a community

663
00:44:48,786 --> 00:44:52,450
just take it on so much and you see the benefits, right, of all the communities that

664
00:44:53,030 --> 00:44:56,714
take it on and they're much more prepared for

665
00:44:56,754 --> 00:45:00,478
any kind of adaptation or any kind of, you know, change,

666
00:45:00,618 --> 00:45:03,881
ups and downs and so forth. It must make your job feel

667
00:45:03,942 --> 00:45:07,305
really good to see like your communities really, you

668
00:45:07,345 --> 00:45:10,928
know, rallying behind this and being

669
00:45:11,028 --> 00:45:14,231
able to see, you know, that resilience in those

670
00:45:14,311 --> 00:45:17,955
communities to the different environmental changes that happen, especially

671
00:45:17,995 --> 00:45:22,759
in in small islands because small islands feel it the most with

672
00:45:22,779 --> 00:45:26,062
these different changes. So I

673
00:45:26,122 --> 00:45:29,646
really do appreciate hearing that. Now,

674
00:45:30,006 --> 00:45:33,529
are there some challenges that are faced,

675
00:45:34,430 --> 00:45:38,354
particularly in the Philippines, maybe new challenges

676
00:45:38,414 --> 00:45:41,517
that need to be addressed that you're looking forward to sort of

677
00:45:41,557 --> 00:45:44,820
taking on? you know, whether it be sea level

678
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,363
rise, whether it be, you know, plastic pollution or

679
00:45:48,423 --> 00:45:52,007
any kind of like litter, marine litter, or anything

680
00:45:52,047 --> 00:45:55,250
like that. Have you seen anything that's been like a sort

681
00:45:58,182 --> 00:46:02,024
I think in the Philippines and

682
00:46:02,084 --> 00:46:05,285
countries where there's high population and

683
00:46:05,645 --> 00:46:08,926
just kind of like the rate of coastal development, I think this

684
00:46:09,006 --> 00:46:12,368
is the piece that maybe

685
00:46:13,888 --> 00:46:17,710
something to be confronted really. And I think that's why

686
00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:21,611
it's so important to be working with the local governments where everything lands.

687
00:46:23,292 --> 00:46:26,814
Planning and everything. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot of it has to do with planning and

688
00:46:26,834 --> 00:46:30,296
what's allowed, what's not allowed in the area.

689
00:46:30,396 --> 00:46:33,779
Because along with that are things like sewage going

690
00:46:33,999 --> 00:46:37,361
into the ocean. Yes. Making sure. And

691
00:46:37,381 --> 00:46:41,083
those things you can't fix without good land

692
00:46:41,183 --> 00:46:44,585
use and planning plans and systems. Yeah.

693
00:46:45,166 --> 00:46:48,488
That's a big, that's a big thing. One of the articles that Zach

694
00:46:48,508 --> 00:46:52,004
sent me It was about

695
00:46:52,024 --> 00:46:56,048
the meeting and one of the mayors mentioned,

696
00:46:56,068 --> 00:46:59,171
I guess it was in Seargo, is that how you pronounce it?

697
00:46:59,892 --> 00:47:06,137
Mentioned how the mangroves protected

698
00:47:06,198 --> 00:47:09,518
them from, it was a typhoon. that

699
00:47:15,203 --> 00:47:18,526
Yeah, two years ago. So can you just talk a little bit about like,

700
00:47:18,586 --> 00:47:22,108
like maintain, like, you know, you talk about planning, talk about urban development, the importance of

701
00:47:22,189 --> 00:47:25,331
maintaining those coastal systems. You know,

702
00:47:25,671 --> 00:47:28,794
this, this mayor mentioned how this was going to be like, this was a

703
00:47:28,874 --> 00:47:32,817
huge thing. Is that is that with

704
00:47:32,877 --> 00:47:36,667
all the members that are part of the coastal 500? Is that a a

705
00:47:36,747 --> 00:47:40,189
common theme is mangrove, seagrass, you know, coral

706
00:47:44,351 --> 00:47:47,652
Yeah, sure. So that case in

707
00:47:47,692 --> 00:47:51,074
Siargao is actually really interesting and we really can't

708
00:47:51,374 --> 00:47:55,616
take credit for all that they've done because he was, that

709
00:47:55,656 --> 00:48:00,099
mayor's pretty visionary when he first took office in

710
00:48:00,139 --> 00:48:06,542
the, I think in the, around 2010 or thereabouts. That's

711
00:48:06,562 --> 00:48:09,783
when he kind of really saw that

712
00:48:09,843 --> 00:48:13,265
they needed to address the threats to the mangrove areas.

713
00:48:13,525 --> 00:48:16,606
They've got the largest contiguous mangrove forest in

714
00:48:16,626 --> 00:48:19,888
the Philippines actually, so it's a big deal. But it was also

715
00:48:19,948 --> 00:48:23,169
getting cut down for firewood, etc. So he kind

716
00:48:23,209 --> 00:48:28,112
of like put in a lot of policies and systems. at

717
00:48:28,153 --> 00:48:31,936
the time and kind of like, you know, demonstrated political

718
00:48:31,996 --> 00:48:35,940
will to really kind of like stop that. Then

719
00:48:36,060 --> 00:48:40,624
he met us in 2014, I

720
00:48:40,664 --> 00:48:43,987
think, and that's when we kind of like trained them

721
00:48:44,247 --> 00:48:47,811
on behavior adoption strategy. So they sort of like layered that

722
00:48:47,831 --> 00:48:51,614
on and applied it and in effect deepened the

723
00:48:51,694 --> 00:48:55,798
impact of it. So that's really changed. He

724
00:48:55,938 --> 00:48:59,522
took it upon himself to add on livelihood programs

725
00:48:59,642 --> 00:49:03,206
around the mangroves that made it more,

726
00:49:03,447 --> 00:49:07,191
you know, again created greater incentive for communities to stick

727
00:49:07,211 --> 00:49:10,775
with protection. And so their payoff

728
00:49:10,875 --> 00:49:14,559
was really during that typhoon where it was, it's

729
00:49:14,579 --> 00:49:17,903
there. And we've seen that in many ways,

730
00:49:18,063 --> 00:49:22,489
either for coral reefs, paying off for food,

731
00:49:25,953 --> 00:49:29,338
Even like wave energy too, right? Dissipating wave energy that comes

732
00:49:32,741 --> 00:49:36,743
Yeah, the science just isn't great, so it's a little harder

733
00:49:36,903 --> 00:49:40,185
to prove it to communities. Yes,

734
00:49:40,245 --> 00:49:44,007
true, true. Yeah, yeah. It's

735
00:49:44,067 --> 00:49:47,509
not as obvious that way, but yes, I think food

736
00:49:48,189 --> 00:49:51,611
is kind of like the main thing that people see

737
00:49:51,651 --> 00:49:54,873
when they think about coral. But with

738
00:49:54,893 --> 00:49:58,114
mangroves, it's this really kind of like that

739
00:49:59,423 --> 00:50:02,644
Yeah, it's you know, I think this is this example right here

740
00:50:02,704 --> 00:50:06,205
is where you see the power of coastal 500 because you have, you

741
00:50:06,245 --> 00:50:09,806
know, a mayor who may or may not in the past have

742
00:50:09,846 --> 00:50:13,187
only been able to speak to a couple of other mayors in and around the

743
00:50:13,267 --> 00:50:16,648
region to and I don't know what the dynamics are in the Philippines in

744
00:50:16,688 --> 00:50:20,014
terms of how often mayors get together and how far reach

745
00:50:20,054 --> 00:50:23,517
they have to other mayors in the country. But now

746
00:50:23,557 --> 00:50:27,179
we're talking over different countries and

747
00:50:27,459 --> 00:50:30,761
different parts of the world and being able to share the

748
00:50:30,802 --> 00:50:33,944
benefits of maintaining mangroves, not

749
00:50:34,004 --> 00:50:37,166
only for protection, but also doubling down and saying, hey, we're going

750
00:50:37,186 --> 00:50:40,828
to put livelihoods around the maintenance of the mangroves and things

751
00:50:40,848 --> 00:50:44,230
like that. So now I see now where it's like, OK, other mayors

752
00:50:44,270 --> 00:50:47,537
start to see this and be like, oh, so there is a reason not like

753
00:50:47,597 --> 00:50:50,778
more than one reason to keep those mangroves in instead of like, you

754
00:50:50,798 --> 00:50:54,118
know, getting pressure from developers to be like, Oh, no, we're gonna put a hotel or

755
00:50:54,138 --> 00:50:57,419
resort here, or we're gonna put a building here, we're gonna

756
00:50:57,439 --> 00:51:00,620
put some whatever development that might be. I think

757
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,920
that's really cool. Because you get those, those mayors with those

758
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,161
types of visions really have a lot more power in

759
00:51:08,761 --> 00:51:12,302
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's also

760
00:51:13,288 --> 00:51:16,409
I think there's also benefit to it being a

761
00:51:16,469 --> 00:51:20,011
global group. Yes. Because in

762
00:51:20,051 --> 00:51:24,333
a way you remove the element of political competition

763
00:51:24,433 --> 00:51:27,815
and kind of like... Yeah, true. Because they're just

764
00:51:28,235 --> 00:51:31,436
mayors together, right? When they're in that

765
00:51:31,536 --> 00:51:34,758
kind of a situation. So it's fantastic. They let

766
00:51:34,778 --> 00:51:38,059
their guard down. They're more open and honest as well

767
00:51:40,147 --> 00:51:43,588
And even seeing, as you mentioned before, the similarities of

768
00:51:43,688 --> 00:51:46,989
the problems and the challenges that they face, and then

769
00:51:47,089 --> 00:51:50,230
how those solutions can maybe help one in

770
00:51:50,250 --> 00:51:54,171
the Philippines and one in like Honduras or Guatemala or

771
00:51:54,491 --> 00:51:57,652
wherever that might be. There's a lot of power in this. And

772
00:51:57,672 --> 00:52:00,752
I really like the fact that Rare is involved in

773
00:52:00,792 --> 00:52:04,433
this and trying to help and scale it to a point where it's like, you

774
00:52:04,453 --> 00:52:07,660
may not need Rare at this point too much. You know, it's a

775
00:52:07,860 --> 00:52:11,262
it's a it's a large organization, but it's a small organization for

776
00:52:11,282 --> 00:52:14,523
the impact that you're having. And I just appreciate the

777
00:52:14,563 --> 00:52:18,044
work that you and your colleagues have done to get this program off

778
00:52:18,084 --> 00:52:21,405
the ground and to help these communities and and, you

779
00:52:21,425 --> 00:52:24,767
know, to really empower the communities. I think that's really what's, you

780
00:52:24,787 --> 00:52:28,108
know, where conservation has been heading for a long time. And Rare's been

781
00:52:28,128 --> 00:52:31,449
at the forefront of that for a very long time

782
00:52:31,489 --> 00:52:35,086
with Fish Forever and their other programs and the pride campaigns that

783
00:52:35,106 --> 00:52:38,649
they've had for various species

784
00:52:38,729 --> 00:52:41,952
at risk and so forth. So Rocky, thank you so much

785
00:52:42,032 --> 00:52:45,215
for joining me today on the podcast to share this

786
00:52:45,275 --> 00:52:48,778
information. I know this is something that's very positive for

787
00:52:49,759 --> 00:52:52,841
us to hear and for the audience to hear because every once

788
00:52:52,861 --> 00:52:56,965
in a while we need some positive news about marine conservation and

789
00:53:00,854 --> 00:53:04,778
Thank you for having me. It was fun. You bet. Good conversation. Thank

790
00:53:04,998 --> 00:53:08,290
Absolutely. You bet. Thank

791
00:53:08,310 --> 00:53:12,051
you, Rocky, for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

792
00:53:12,552 --> 00:53:16,053
This was amazing. I

793
00:53:16,113 --> 00:53:19,434
love being able, this is what I love about my job. This is what I love about doing this

794
00:53:19,494 --> 00:53:23,295
podcast is I get to speak to people like Rocky who work

795
00:53:23,475 --> 00:53:26,596
for organizations like Rare, who work with communities to

796
00:53:26,636 --> 00:53:29,777
become more resilient. It energizes me because I know that these

797
00:53:29,837 --> 00:53:33,259
communities are better off. a savings account

798
00:53:33,699 --> 00:53:36,961
for the community, having this savings bank to say, hey, you

799
00:53:37,001 --> 00:53:40,182
know what, if something happens, we're ready to go. You

800
00:53:40,222 --> 00:53:44,105
know, we're ready to be able to support each other because we're prepared

801
00:53:44,425 --> 00:53:47,606
for anything that might happen. Because we never know what kind of storm is going

802
00:53:47,626 --> 00:53:50,868
to come through. We never know what might happen. Our infrastructure is

803
00:53:50,928 --> 00:53:54,210
better. Our support is better. Our financial support is better.

804
00:53:54,510 --> 00:53:59,846
And we're ready to go. Even to just think that after a storm, Villages

805
00:53:59,886 --> 00:54:03,289
will go out and put out their marker buoys to mark out the

806
00:54:03,389 --> 00:54:06,731
boundaries for the marine protected area because they know that

807
00:54:06,771 --> 00:54:10,034
they have more fish after a storm than they would previously if

808
00:54:10,054 --> 00:54:13,416
they didn't have a marine protected area in place. That is huge.

809
00:54:13,796 --> 00:54:17,179
That is what we call resiliency. And that is what I'd like to see more

810
00:54:17,219 --> 00:54:21,182
and more of and hear more and more of with different communities

811
00:54:21,682 --> 00:54:24,908
that live around the ocean, live on the coast. around the

812
00:54:24,968 --> 00:54:28,472
world. I want to hear this because a lot of the times we hear this news

813
00:54:28,512 --> 00:54:32,176
and even on this podcast, we hear news and I tell news about

814
00:54:32,236 --> 00:54:35,700
really damaging things and really big challenges that we face.

815
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,604
But we see these organizations and these communities come together to

816
00:54:39,684 --> 00:54:43,048
work, to become more resilient to these changes and be able

817
00:54:43,088 --> 00:54:46,350
to adapt. and manage these areas a lot better

818
00:54:46,410 --> 00:54:49,732
than they have been in the past, just because of the changes that they're facing. And

819
00:54:49,772 --> 00:54:52,874
even though there are probably more changes coming, they're still going to

820
00:54:52,914 --> 00:54:56,676
be able to be more resilient because they're prepared. And although

821
00:54:56,716 --> 00:55:00,038
that change is going to continue to happen, although there's going to be challenges that they're

822
00:55:00,058 --> 00:55:03,500
going to face, they're going to adapt, they're going to make more preparations, and

823
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,702
they're going to be able to be ready for anything that is

824
00:55:06,782 --> 00:55:10,083
put in their place, and they'll be more resilient for it. This is what I love about my

825
00:55:10,123 --> 00:55:13,605
job. This is what I love about organizations like Rare, about people

826
00:55:13,645 --> 00:55:16,826
like Rocky, to be able to work with communities like this. And of course, the

827
00:55:16,846 --> 00:55:20,507
resiliency of the community to be able to identify challenges

828
00:55:20,548 --> 00:55:24,149
that they have, invite people in such

829
00:55:24,209 --> 00:55:28,470
as Rare to come in and help them out and provide resources, work

830
00:55:28,611 --> 00:55:32,533
with governments that There may

831
00:55:32,593 --> 00:55:36,195
have been trust issues in the past and be able to overcome those

832
00:55:36,315 --> 00:55:39,536
and have visionaries of mayors like

833
00:55:39,556 --> 00:55:43,118
we just talked about in Siargao in the Philippines to

834
00:55:43,159 --> 00:55:46,620
be able to say, hey, we need mangroves. And mangroves actually save

835
00:55:46,660 --> 00:55:49,862
our towns because when we keep them in place, they save our towns from

836
00:55:50,022 --> 00:55:53,885
flooding and from storm surges and so forth during typhoons. And

837
00:55:53,925 --> 00:55:57,146
we're going to put livelihoods around that. So we need to protect even

838
00:55:57,266 --> 00:56:00,508
more, especially after there's a lot of development, in the face of

839
00:56:00,528 --> 00:56:03,889
a lot of development. So love the fact that we have these types

840
00:56:03,929 --> 00:56:07,291
of episodes. Love the fact we have these organizations and people like Rocky

841
00:56:07,331 --> 00:56:11,632
and Rare to be able to help out these communities

842
00:56:11,812 --> 00:56:15,074
in all different types of places. Thank you, Zach, for putting me in touch with Rocky and

843
00:56:15,094 --> 00:56:18,475
making me aware of this story. Thank you, Rocky, for coming on the podcast and

844
00:56:18,775 --> 00:56:21,916
sharing your insights, sharing your experiences, and sharing your

845
00:56:21,936 --> 00:56:25,117
stories. And thank you, the audience members, for listening to this. I

846
00:56:25,137 --> 00:56:28,459
want you to share this because this is one of those episodes that I feel like

847
00:56:28,519 --> 00:56:31,700
are so shareable that people will really become more

848
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,241
optimistic about how we adapt to changes in

849
00:56:35,281 --> 00:56:39,403
our environment, to changes in our ocean. So, share this with one

850
00:56:39,423 --> 00:56:43,424
of your friends, your colleagues, your family members, whoever that might be. These

851
00:56:43,464 --> 00:56:46,625
are stories that we need to get out more and more. So, thank

852
00:56:46,645 --> 00:56:50,226
you so much for listening to this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

853
00:56:50,287 --> 00:56:53,508
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and