Just Stop Oil: Nonviolent Protests Get Record Sentences

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Would you spend up to five years in jail to protest

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climate change, to try and get oil companies to stop, you

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know, developing, to stop basically polluting

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the earth with greenhouse gases and worse? Would you spend

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up to five years? Well, apparently there are some people in the

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UK who found out that yes, they're apparently going

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to be serving four to five year sentences for protesting

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in some extreme ways with the Just Stop Oil campaign in

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that group. We're going to talk about that on today's episode of the How to

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Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's start the show. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm

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your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean,

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how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by

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taking action. Before we get into today's episode, which

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is kind of an interesting one in terms of advocacy and

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how far people will go and are you willing to go in the future this

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far, And will people go in the future this far, knowing that the

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consequences could be dire? It could take about four or five years off

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of your life in terms of freedom. So we're going to talk about that in just a sec.

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A couple of announcements I want to make before we start, though. I've been

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doing video podcasting for the last little bit. For the last couple of weeks, I

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started video podcasting. Spotify has released

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a couple of new ways of podcasting that

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includes adding a video. So I will add an

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audio to this. So there's an audio way of listening

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to the podcast, but there's also going to be a video. And so

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I upload that about 8 a.m. after I upload the other ones

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around midnight. I just wanted to let you guys know that

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there are ways of watching me talk to

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you about climate change and ocean conservation and

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how to protect the ocean. I'm also putting these on YouTube, so

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since I'm doing video, might as well put it on YouTube as well. But Spotify

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has a really new, interesting feature and

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i don't know if it's for everybody yet because they're just rolling it out but you

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are allowed to comment on my podcast on the

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different episodes and i think that's really great because i've been looking for a way to

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engage with users right away obviously you know that you can dm me

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you comment. So if I see I get an alert that somebody

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commented on an episode, I can go in, I can just be like, oh, hey,

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this is great, thanks for the feedback, or love your perspective, or you

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can answer some of the questions that I ask within a poll or

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something like that. It's always great to be able to interact with you because right

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now I'm speaking at you. you know, whether you're an audience or

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a class or whoever's listening to this or however you're listening to this, I'm speaking at you. There's no

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way for you to speak to me or give me feedback or answer any of the questions

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that I ask within this episode. So you can

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do that now through Spotify if you're on Spotify or if you want

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to go over to YouTube and watch these podcasts, you can do so. I'll

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be releasing them just as I release every episode three day or every podcast

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three days a week, Monday, Wednesday to Friday. You'll be able to have access to

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that. The second announcement I wanna make, if you love news and you want it, not only through

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to Friday in your inbox at 8 a.m. every morning, or

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every morning on the weekday. So if you wanna access to that, we have news items,

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So all you have to do is go to speakupforblue.com forward slash newsletter.

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That's speakupforblue.com forward slash

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newsletter. It's free. I don't do anything with your email other than send you information on

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the ocean, which is my goal. My goal is to just keep you informed of what's happening on the

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ocean, including this episode here, which I find a

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little scary. You know, we see that when

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we talk about marine conservation and we want marine conservation to happen.

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It doesn't always happen on a government level. We've seen climate change. That's

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a big issue. Plastic pollution, huge issue. Overfishing,

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huge issue. We need legislation. There has been legislation put

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forward or done in the past. We need to make sure that it's better and it

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always gets better. But a lot of times, we need to create new legislation. And

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we want our governments to create new legislation. That

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doesn't always happen the way we want it for whatever reason. And

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sometimes you have to put more pressure. So you can team up with a non-profit

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organization and you can say, hey, I want to help you and

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volunteer in a campaign to make sure that this government listens.

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So that might be going for a protest, like a non-violent protest. That

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might be putting out stuff on social media, like

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some of their material, all that kind of stuff. When we talk about

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protesting, protesting is to say, hey, government, we're not happy. Hey,

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politicians, we're not happy with what you're doing. We would like you to do this, but you're not listening

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to us. We've sent petitions. We've tried to contact you individually. Now

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we're coming together as a community in a large group and coming and

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we're yelling it at you. Please do something about whatever.

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In this case, it's oil companies. Let's stop producing

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oil. Just Stop Oil is the organization that has been

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kind of leading the charge in what I would call

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and what I would consider extreme sort of attention seeking.

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right? Not necessarily a good way or a bad way. Some of them are a little dangerous

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and I'm concerned about the people. Some of them are just getting

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people's attention. And a lot of people hate the fact that, you

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know, they're getting people's attention. However, You know,

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this is where they're at. This is where this organization, the people who volunteer for this

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organization feel that this is what they need to do in order

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to gain the attention of the government to

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change things. And so Just Stop Oil, their mission is

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to continue these protests until the government changes

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its stance on exploration in the North Sea of oil for

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companies. So that's basically opening up leases or providing

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subsidies, more subsidies to oil companies. and allowing these

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companies to drill within the North Sea, which is going to affect climate change

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furthermore with the release of greenhouse gases through

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the fossil fuel creation process. So they want to

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just stop oil. That's their organization. It's pretty simple. They go on these protests. You've

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probably seen them in videos throwing paint on what seems to

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be artwork. art where

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they've been slowing down the UK. They walk really slow in the

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streets and people have to move slow. They don't like the fact that they're moving

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slow because they're trying to get to their job and of course they're rushing

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everywhere to go and I completely understand people have to work, people have to make money

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and they're late all the time. That could be a problem but the whole point is to gain attention

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from the government and be like these people are disrupting traffic constantly even

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though they're getting arrested while doing it, they're still disrupting it.

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Let's get their attention. That's what they want to do. They've also

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been in like F1 races where they've gone on the track, which I think is extremely dangerous,

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and that's very dangerous. Recently, there

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was, and they get prosecuted. A lot of times they'll be put in jail for a night or

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a day or a weekend, and then they're let go. Some have

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court cases later on, some get off, some don't. There have been a number

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of them who have been prosecuted fully to the extent of the law, and

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have actually served time, or are serving time, or are

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about to serve time. And the latest in The Guardian shows that five

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Just Stop Oil activists receive record sentences for

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planning to block the M25, which is a highway there, that's my understanding. a

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major highway into the UK or into London. So Roger

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Hellam, Daniel Shaw, Louise Lancaster, Lucia Whittaker-Debreu

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and Christina Gethin were found guilty last week of

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conspiracy to cause a public nuisance for coordinating

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direct action protests on the M25 over

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four days in November 2022. So

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one person, Hallam, received a five-year sentence on Thursday, while

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the other four received each sentence of four years.

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Each of them received a four-year sentence. So this is

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thought to be the longest sentences ever given in the UK for

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nonviolent protests, exceeding those given to the Gistop oil protesters,

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Morgan Trollin, who got three years, and Marcus Decker, who got two years

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and seven months, for scaling the Dartford Crossing. I'm

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assuming that's a bridge. I'm not too sure exactly what that is. However, it

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disrupted, and you do public disruption. Now, there are laws set

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for public disruption, and there are extents of those, like

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there are maximum fines and maximum penalties for that, jail

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time and so forth. And a lot of times you'll hear that when people are charged with

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certain things, they can spend up to five years in jail or pay a

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$30,000 fine or $180,000 fine. You see these happen all the time.

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A lot of the times, they don't get that sentence. They

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don't get the maximum sentence unless they did something that's egregiously bad

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or like really, really to the fullest extent of that law.

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However, apparently they're getting some. And I don't know if

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this is just the fact that the justice system is sick of

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prosecuting the protesters and are trying to

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stop them from doing it, to stop others from doing it. And that's the question

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that I asked right off the bat. Are you willing to spend up to five years in

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jail to be able to protest oil exploration? Are

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you willing to do that? Because that's what seems to be the price to pay

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depending on what you're doing in, you

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know, what you're protesting and how you protest. Some of these extreme events,

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these extreme protests cause, you know, people harm

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or could cause people harm. Like imagine being able to sit on a tarmac, a

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F1 tarmac, which has got to be hot. But while the race is going on,

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these F1 cars are coming so, so fast. Even

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though they're trying to get out of the way, and they're trying to stay out of the way, and they're trying to be safe, you

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never know what might happen. And you can put the driver

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in danger. You can put yourself in danger. There's a lot of other things that you can do that

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could cause danger. So I think this is what they're trying to dispel. They're trying to

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make sure that nobody gets hurt in these things. But I think they're also trying

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to suppress a lot of the protests that are happening. Now, until recently, the

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government was very conservative. And that government had the

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power for the last 14 years, until recently, when the labor government

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took over. Now, in the sentencing, some of

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the protesters that were about to be sentenced said,

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hey, look, we don't feel that we might have to do these protests that

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much anymore, because there's a new government in town, and they

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are a little bit more to do something about climate change.

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That's what they said in their protest, or in their, not

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protest, but in their election promises. So, you

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know, maybe they're not going to do it, there's not an app to recur and

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come back and do the same thing and have to go through the same process and

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cause the court a lot of money to, justice and a lot of money

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to go to court and do all the filing and stuff like that. That

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didn't work. That didn't work. It seems like this judge is like, look,

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I understand what you feel the need to do. You're at this point

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where you have to do something more extreme to get people to

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get the government's attention. However, this

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is not the way to do it. This is very dangerous. It's dangerous for people. It's dangerous for you. And

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we need to keep everything safe. So unfortunately, if you even

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though you feel the need to do this, you have to be you have to be punished.

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And so they were given five and four year sentences. So one person received five,

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four people received four year sentences. That's a lot of time. A

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lot of the people who are in this, some of them, I'm looking at pictures of them, some of them look really young,

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some of them look sort of middle-aged, that could take a lot of time in

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developing your career and doing something maybe a little bit more positive

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in terms of getting results. We don't

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know if these will, you know, you know,

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come into results. We don't know if this directly affected the election. I

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highly doubt it. But this is what

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the people who are doing these types of protests feel. They feel like they

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can have an effect if they get the attention of the government. To get the attention of

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the government, they have to do something big to get in the news so that

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they get the attention of the government. Unfortunately, when you do that, you

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do pay the price. And it's something, as scientists and conservationists, that we need to

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really evaluate on whether you're willing to make that sacrifice. They're

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nonviolent, hopefully. And you

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still have to pay the consequences, because there are consequences. There are laws to disrupting major

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highways, or a bridge, or something like that. There are laws

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in place to stop that from happening. And you have to be ready

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to serve that consequence. In this

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case, it's four to five years. That's a long time away

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from maybe your families, away from your jobs, away from just

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freedom. That's a tough thing, a tough road to go

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by. I feel for the people who have to do this sentence, I'm sure that's not

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what they first expected, and it's

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probably going to be devastating towards them, but it's one of the things

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that we have to consider when we start to advocate for

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something in these types of manners, where you're trying to get the attention,

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you got their attention, but with that attention comes attention on you and

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comes the law. And I'm not saying that it's right. Do

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I think they deserve four to five years? No, I don't think they deserve four to

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five years in my personal opinion However, I'm sure

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a lot of the people who were blocked on the m25 and on those on

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those bridges that couldn't get to work or things I feel a different way

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and that's unfortunate. That's the way that's the way it goes is it's

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a sacrifice that you have to be willing to take and you have to be willing to

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make and Be willing to suffer the consequences for that Um,

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it sucks. I never want to see anybody happen, uh,

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you know, that happen to anybody, um, nor do I want

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to see anything violent happen because of, of protest. And

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unfortunately, in certain situations that's happened, whether it be environmental or

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non-environmental, um, but they were able to speak their voices, and

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unfortunately, it just, the way they went about it, it just didn't jive

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with, with the law, and that sucks. Um, you know, and I,

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I really do feel for them. I really do. That's a very different

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change in their life and I'm sure they didn't expect that they were going to have to

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do that. And unfortunately, they feel that they need to do that.

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And that's where a lot of people who kind

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of just throw up their hands and be like, I give up. There's nothing that we can do. I've talked

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to people that way. There's nothing that we can do. We are going to damage the planet. We

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are going to go through climate change and we're just going to have to suffer the consequences. generations

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from now or even now. And people are going to lose their livelihoods, people are

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going to lose their homes, people are going to lose lives from

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it. But unfortunately, nobody's ever going to do it. We're controlled by

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something different. Greed has controlled the

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government for a long time, and money has controlled the government for a long time, and fossil fuel

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companies have that money. And we've seen they're willing to do whatever it

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takes to ensure that that happens, including global campaigns to

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deny climate change. and global campaigns to say, hey, you know what? It's

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already happening. You can just give up. There's no point. They've actually come

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out and said that. That's one of their tactics, just to say, just give up. It's

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OK. Don't worry about it. We'll still be OK. It's not going

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to affect you directly. It'll affect you indirectly, and then maybe later

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on, generations down the road. But it's OK. We're making our money, and you get

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to be happy. And don't worry about it. And that's really what it's come down to.

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There's some people feel that they have to make more extreme decisions

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and try and get attention in more extreme ways. And

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that's not going to stop, unfortunately. I don't think a four to five year sentence for

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some people are going to think that that's the price

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that they're willing to pay. And I don't know if these protesters are,

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but you know, they did, and

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they're going to. And so other people, I don't think this Just Stop Oil

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group are going to stop. They have a mission, and people, like, you

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know, other people were, last year were sentenced to two to three years,

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and they're fine, and, you know, the

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others are still protesting. So, I think this is a movement, this

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is a movement that's going to be tough to stop. Unfortunately, you know, I think a

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lot of people give I don't want to give any protesters or anybody talking about climate

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change a bad name because of Just Stop Oil. There's definitely ramifications to

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the movement on that. But for the most part, a lot of people are just, you

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know, like you and me, who are just like, look, we have to do something about climate change. There's

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a lot of work that we need to do. The first thing is putting the right people in

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politics and getting the right people to run in politics and to be

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able to do the right thing. And it doesn't necessarily mean you have to run for office, but

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you can get involved within your local city, you can get involved within

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your local county, your local province, whatever that might be.

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And that could be with a nonprofit organization, that could be volunteering on

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committees for government. There's all those, there's all different types of ways that

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you can take part. So I highly recommend that you do that and

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look into it before you go to these extreme ways. Hopefully you

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don't feel the need to do that anytime soon. But that's it for today's episode. I'd

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love to hear what you think. You can leave a comment on Spotify or on

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YouTube. You can also hit me up on Instagram at HowToProtectTheOcean. I

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want to thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the

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HowToProtectTheOcean podcast. I'm your host, Angelo, and have a great day. We'll talk to you next time,