Transcript
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This dark oxygen discovery in the deep sea changes
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everything we know about deep sea mining. We're
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going to talk about on today's episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. Let's
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start the show. Hey
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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I
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am your host Andrew Lu, and this is the podcast where we find out what's happening with the ocean, how
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you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by
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taking action. And for a long time, for probably the
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last 10 years, deep sea mining has been
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one of the issues that people and scientists and all
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sorts of people have been worried about for a long time. in
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electric vehicle batteries, EV batteries, so that we can
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do better for the planet. But are we going to do better for
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the planet? Do we actually have to mess up the
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deep sea by mining the metals in the deep sea to
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make the planet better because we will be able to create more cars
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that have less you know, fossil fuel, exhaust,
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and greenhouse gases going into the
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atmosphere. We're going to mess up the ocean, which provides us
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with the oxygen we need to breathe, and the deep sea, which we know virtually
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nothing about when you really think about it, and we're going to deep
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sea mine it to make the planet better. It just doesn't really add
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up for a lot of people. Although, you know, the people who
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are doing the work and trying to build more EVs
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are saying they're doing it better, like they're doing a good thing for the planet, Are
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they really, is this really what needs to be done? Can we not come up with
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something different? And that's been the debate. That's really
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been the debate. Is this really the thing that we need to do to
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make the planet better? Can we not find an alternative? And even
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if we did, I remember talking to Andrew Thaler, Dr. Andrew Thaler, who
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is a deep sea biologist, and he's done a lot of work with
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deep sea mining, including authoring and being
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the chief editor of a deep sea mining magazine for quite some
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time. He even said that even though if we start deep
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sea mining today, The metals that will be
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mined from the deep sea won't be put into production until about 50 years
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down the road. The
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problem with mining these metals right now is they're mined in cobalt
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mines in Africa, which do not have good
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human rights history. In
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terms of the mining, there are rumors and videos showing
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children mining. It looks chaotic. It doesn't look like they're being
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taken care of, like we have in some mines in
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North America and in the West, as well as in Europe. So obviously,
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a lot of problems with that. when we start to
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look at the deep sea and we're doing more and more studies on the deep sea
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a new discovery was made and that some of those nodules that
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are going to be mined are actually good for the
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deep sea and probably belong in the deep sea. Why? Was
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it because because they create oxygen.
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That's right. The deep sea, which is a dark zone, it's not a photo
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zone, meaning light from the sun does not penetrate down to
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the 2,000 meters or 6,000 meters or even past 100 meters, let's say. to
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get to light up the area. And why is that important? Why
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do we think that when there's no light, we don't get oxygen? Because
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normally we think, hey, photosynthesis gives us oxygen. The process
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of plants taking in carbon dioxide and
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spitting out oxygen through that process is what
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really gives us the oxygen that we need to breathe. So we look
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at plants, we look at trees, we look at phytoplankton from
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the ocean, that produces a lot of oxygen. That's
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why we say every second breath you take, you should thank the ocean and
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the phytoplankton in the ocean that produces the oxygen that
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provides us with that oxygen to breathe, with the great air that
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we breathe in now. But now, That light
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doesn't penetrate down into the deep sea, yet these nodules
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that are on the bottom are actually areas where there's high
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oxygen levels. So the researchers that published this study
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in a scientific journal called Nature
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Geoscience They were quite surprised because as
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they had their detectors, as they had their instruments to
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detect oxygen down towards the bottom of the sea, they noticed
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that oxygen was increasing when normally it decreases. So
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why does this increase? They don't know. They thought there was
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something wrong with the sensors. So they sent down different sensors, better
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sensors. And they noticed that they were having the same results,
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higher oxygen, increased oxygen as they got towards the bottom. They're
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like, what is the difference now where we're seeing, hey, there's
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an increased oxygen in these certain areas? And what
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they noticed was that there were these nodules. These nodules
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that are known for deep sea mining, that are sought
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after for deep sea mining, these are nodules that are made up
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of cobalt, manganese, and nickel, and
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if they're all jumbled up together, they make this like polymetallic
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matrix. And it's like this mix of basically
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metals. And when these are mixed, a
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single polymetallic nodule will produce
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about 0.95 volts. Now, hold
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on a second with me. Just stay with me for a little bit, because I'm going to tell you why this
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is important. When they're clustered together, Right? Not the
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singular one that has 0.95 volts, but when they're clustered together, they
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can actually reach a voltage of 1.5 volts. Why
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is that important? Because that's what it takes to split oxygen from
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water. So in the deep sea, there's a lot of water, right? It's
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pressurized. And it takes about 1.5 volts to split the
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oxygen from the water, the H2O molecule. And
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so you will get oxygen. So when you have those nodules there, it
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produces enough voltage to have that reaction happen without
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light there. The light produces the voltage to have
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that reaction to happen. However, when you're in the
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deep sea, you don't have light. So you have these nodules. So
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in areas where these nodules are, You get a little bit
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more biodiverse animals.
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You still get a diversity of animals there.
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When there are no nodules on the seafloor, you're not getting as
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many animals out there. You're not getting the diversity. You're not getting that complexity.
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So these nodules, which are sought after for deep
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sea mining, are also good for
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oxygen. So this begs the question, What
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do we do? From a conservation perspective, from an oceanic perspective,
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how does this change the sought-after
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deep sea mining that countries are looking for? How
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does this change the companies who have spent millions upon
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millions upon millions, maybe tens of even hundreds of millions, trying
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to find ways to efficiently extract these nodules
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from the deep sea without harming the surrounding
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deep sea areas? How do, what
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do we say to these companies? Is this the thing that
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will ban deep sea mining, knowing that having oxygen down
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there is going to be really important for these
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habitats, right? Really important for the
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geochemical processes in the ocean,
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in the deep sea ocean. If we take those out, what is that going to
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do to the deep sea? We're just scratching the
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surface with its discovery, but this is a massive discovery in
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deep sea science. This is something that could change
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everything. You know, this 1.5 volts basically
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appears to, the authors say they
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discovered a natural geobattery. That was
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from Franz Geiger from the Northwestern University,
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he's a chemist, says these geobatteries are the basis for
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a possible explanation of the Earth's dark oxygen production. So
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knowing that oxygen is produced in the deep sea is one discovery, knowing how
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it's produced is another. Obviously there are more experiments that need to
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be done, more studies that need to be researched, and we need to find out how
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this is going to happen. But this is huge. And
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he says, this is a reason why such dead zones persist
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for decades until unknown. So they did actually do.
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In 2016, 2017, marine biologists visited sites
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that were mined in the 1980s, so deep sea sites that
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were mined in the 1980s, and found that not even bacteria had recovered in
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mined areas. In unmined regions, however, marine
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life flourished. So why such dead zones persist
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for decades is still unknown, but however this
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puts a major asterisk onto strategies for seafloor mining
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as ocean floor fauna diversity in
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nodular rich areas is higher than the most diverse
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tropical rainforests. That is insane. Right?
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This is why we need to do more discovery. We need to be doing
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more exploration in the deep sea. We need
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to find out why this is happening, where this is persisting,
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and how that affects the deep sea. How do
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we look at what we do? And it's really interesting because it
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says, ancient microbial cyanobacteria have
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long been credited for first supplying oxygen The oxygen required
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for the evolution of complex life billions of years ago as
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a waste product from photosynthesis turning sunlight
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into their energy source. We now know that there's oxygen produced
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in the deep sea where there's no light whatsoever. Right?
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That is huge. That is massive. So
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we have to revisit the question of where could
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aerobic life have begun? We don't know. That's another question
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that could be answered. There's more information in the
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Nature Geoscience publication. I'll link to it in the show notes. But
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this is a huge discovery. This is massive. This could change
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the way we see deep sea mining. This could answer that question. Should we be
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mining the deep sea, especially for nodules, taking those nodules out
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of habitats where it produces oxygen? And
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what is that going to do to the deep sea? How is that going to affect the
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processes that work? How are those animals that are not there,
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if there's mining that happens, what is that going to do to the deep
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sea if those animals are absent in those particular areas? How
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is that going to affect? We all know the deep sea is connected. We all know the
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ocean is connected in a variety of ways. We know that some
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crabs, some fish, all these different organisms,
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the way they even disperse their larvae, right,
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or even their eggs before they're even fertilized, sometimes those
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eggs will travel, you know, a couple of feet, other times it'll
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travel a number of kilometers just to, you know,
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disperse as much as possible. And so we know the ocean
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is connected to certain spots and certain organisms are, will fill
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and become like a source for other places in terms of
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the way they disperse their young, And so how
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is that going to be affected in the deep sea? Is that going to be affected? Or
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there's some similar processes for animals in the deep sea
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that help, you know, populate other areas of the deep sea. We're
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going to find that out soon enough, I'm sure. But should
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we be deep sea mining knowing this information about dark oxygen?
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That's what we're going to find out soon enough. I'd love to hear your thoughts though.
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I'm going to put a poll in our Spotify account because you
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can do that. I can actually add a poll. I would love for
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you to answer that. Go over to Spotify, listen to this and just answer
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the poll. Do you think this will affect the way we do
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deep sea mining or if we're going to do deep sea mining at all? Love to
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hear from you. And this is also going to be on YouTube, so if you want to put a comment, down
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below, feel free to do so and answer that question. I'd love to
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hear your thoughts on this, because this is the beginning of a conversation. I want to
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hear your thoughts on this as much as possible. And you can also DM me
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on Instagram at HowToProtectTheOcean. So many ways to get a hold of
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me, but that's why we do this podcast. Anyway, thank
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you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How To Protect The Ocean podcast. I'm
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your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time, and happy