Insider Tips for Building a Career in Marine Science

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I wanted to take time out of our regularly scheduled program to talk

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about careers in marine science and conservation.

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There have been a lot of you who have reached out to me over the years to

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talk about careers. How do I get into this career? Do you know of

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any jobs that are available in this? And where should I

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begin? And I don't know anybody in the field and so forth.

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And I wanted to take the time today on this episode of

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the How to Protect the Ocean podcast to be able to reach out

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and say, hey, you know what? Here's what I would do if

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I were to do it all over again. And the reason I'm doing this is

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because I'm kind of in a period of my life where

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my daughter wants to become a wildlife biologist. And

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she's going to take zoology in university. She's about a year out. She's a

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senior in high school. And we're talking

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about careers. We're talking about what she needs to be able to do.

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And I have some ideas for her based on how things have changed since I

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started and where I think some things that I've learned and

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advice that I would like to give her. And I kind of want to shoot it

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out to you as well, for those of you who are looking for jobs and

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trying to build a career in marine science and conservation. So

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with that said, let's start the show and talk about marine

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careers. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with

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the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, what you can do to live for

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a better ocean by taking action. Now, I

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am a marine science communicator. That's what

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I do. I'm a conservation and science communicator. I am a psycommer. That's

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what I love to do. I love to talk about the ocean. I love to engage with

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conversations about the ocean, about climate change, about the issues facing the

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ocean, like climate change, and being able to

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give advice on career paths and, you know, where

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to find careers. I manage a Facebook group with

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over 25,000 people where we discuss you

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know in post conservation jobs and there's talk about conservation

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and where people should go to get a job in

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conservation and how they should build up their experience and

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how they should begin their career really a lot of people are struggling

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to find jobs after they finish

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their schooling And it could be for a variety of different reasons. One,

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it's just difficult to get a job these days. The job market is not

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easy in any sort of industry, whether you're looking at

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science or you're looking at business, it doesn't matter. It's

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a very difficult industry to break into in general, and

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then you're adding on to a difficult time to find a job. It

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makes it really hard to find jobs. But you

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want to be able to like the advice I'd like to give you today is

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just sort of managing your marine conservation career for

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the long term and understanding that it's not a

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straight path from school when you decide to become a

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marine biologist or marine conservationist all the way to the end of

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your career. there's going to be times where you're going to meander, there's

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going to be times where you're going to fall and you're going to take risks and it's going to

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work out and sometimes it's not going to work out. There's going to be times where you

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may find a job and you may work in that forever. I highly doubt it, there's

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going to be a lot of changes but the industry has changed.

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for for better or for worse it's changed just

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like the world changes like the ocean has changed it's

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evolved and we've seen a lot of different changes from secured

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government positions to going out on your own and risking um

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a lot you know risking your lifestyle risking your money for

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your family and your mortgage and all that kind of stuff so what i

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want to do is kind of give you a breakdown of what you

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know, marine science and conservation career looks like, what, how

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can it impact your lifestyle, managing risk within

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that and sort of understanding, you

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know, what those risks are and how that could affect your life. And also, I

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want to say this before I really begin is, I'm

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still going through it, right? I'm 45, I'm going to be

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turning 46 in a couple of weeks. And it's

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going to be, you know, I'm still going through it. I haven't figured

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out anything. there are a lot of people who give job advice and

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we're all still just kind of figuring things out and we're sharing our

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experiences and we're sharing our advice based

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on what's happened to us and our lifestyle and where we sit you

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know sort of in lifestyle and you know whether we're middle class lower

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middle class upper middle class above that whatever that

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might be I would consider myself middle class at

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this point, maybe a little on the upper middle class. I have a very different

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experience from many of you who may not sit

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in that category or may not be a white male

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in this industry. So I'm coming at you from my experience

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and I'm giving you advice based on my experience and based on the

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experiences that I've talked to people with and seen them go through.

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And also I have another podcast that I co-host called Beyond Jaws where

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we talk to shark scientists from all over the world

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and talk about how they work and where they go and what

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they do in their niche, in their industry, in their field, and

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be able to be successful. And their success is defined differently.

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Everybody's success is defined differently. It really comes down to

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what do you want to accomplish within your career? How

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do you want to accomplish it? And how do you want to live through it as

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a father? Who's giving advice to

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his daughter who's going into a great 12 in

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high school? So seniors for a lot of you Americans, you know, she's

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gonna be a senior and you know looking at where

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she wants to go, go to university, what type of job she wants to do. As

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a dad, I always look at, well, what kind of lifestyle do you want? Do

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you want family? Do you want to be close to family? Do you want to live

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around the world? How are you going to do that? Safety, and

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what kind of jobs you can get. Are they sustainable? Are they something that

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you can actually build a lifestyle around? The

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world is a lot different place than when I started. I bought my house

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for probably a fraction of what the house is worth today in the

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place that I in the city that I live today and a lot of cities around the

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world it's more expensive to live houses and and housing or

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any kind of residence that you want to buy or rent is extremely expensive

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now and so a lot of the salaried positions or

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paid positions within this industry is

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not that high, hasn't risen to the level where it's considered

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to be within par of renting or buying

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a residence. So as a dad and seeing my daughter graduating

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into that lifestyle, I worry and I want

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to make sure that she understands what the risks are and

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where she can go. And so that will be,

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it's gonna be an interesting conversation and we're gonna try and figure out together, but

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I wanted to give you this advice and sort of give you this

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breakdown of the industry and what you can do with it

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and how it might affect your lifestyle, where you're coming

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from. And I would also love to hear your, before I go into

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it all, I would love to hear you know, how

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it's affected you, if you're mid-career, if you're early career, if

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you're late career, I'd love to hear your stories. You

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can either DM me or maybe we can do an interview on the podcast and

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get that experience going. and sharing it with other people.

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But let's just get into sort of the breakdown. Now, when

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I first started back in, you know, my university

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career started in 1997. So it's been a long time. And

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I've had, you know, job advice throughout my entire career. But

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back then, the big push in Canada was to say,

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hey, we're gonna see a lot of

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baby boomers start, I'm Generation X, we're gonna see a lot of baby

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boomers start to retire soon. So you're graduating

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at a great time, you're taking school at a great time, because a lot of places in

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the government, which was like at that time, if you got hired by the

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government right out of school, you probably had that job or something similar

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within the government until you retire at the age of 55, which

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a lot of government employees were retiring at. And we're like,

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OK, that's great. This is wonderful. Then 2000 hit. And

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the stock market crash hit. And the dot-com bubble crash happened.

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And you're like, oh, OK, not as many people are retiring because

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their retirement went to crap. And so when

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I graduated in 2001, there weren't many jobs available.

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and you know the internet wasn't as abundant as we had now where jobs

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are being posted on the internet all the time and you can you know you had like in

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like indeed.com and all these different job sites where you can apply

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quickly and LinkedIn and all this kind of stuff it wasn't like that there

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were jobs being posted but you had to apply like through email or

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you had to apply you know via like letter sometimes

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and so that was difficult so the jobs were more regional back

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then it was very difficult to get a job if I lived in Canada to get a job in

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the U.S. although I did eventually find something in the U.S. but I

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feel as though I lucked out when I first got that first job because

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the people who I replaced basically quit a week before I

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called to get hired and had the interview on the spot and

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was down within a week of that working for about

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eight months in the ocean. So you know, it's

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a very different time right now. And what we've seen, like, you know, I talked about

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the government jobs, and this was happening at the government level

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in the US and in Canada, we started to see a switch in

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the way the government handled hiring people.

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And what was happening is before, here in Canada, you would get a lot

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of, you'd get hired as a permanent staff, full-time staffer, and

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then you would work for, you know, 30, 40 years, and

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then you would retire. And the same thing would happen in the US federally. and

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as well as provincially state and state level. And

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that was the cream of the crop. If you got to work with government,

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you got great benefits. You got a great, you

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were unionized most likely. So you got, you know, vacation

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and sick leave and dental and health and depending on where

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you lived. in which country lived and then it was that was

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wonderful like that was the time to say hey government job

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will pay you well you get a pension you know you're you're set up

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for retirement and everything like that you can retire early at full pension

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and still be able to consult and do other things and it's it's a

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wonderful feeling and you and you get to contribute to your you

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know, a government or, you know, some data and build a program

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or continue on a long lasting program and so forth. And that

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was wonderful. That's changed. That's changed quite a

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bit. In the US, it's changed into the, sorry, I'll start

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in Canada. In Canada, it's changed where now they hire you full time,

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but you're not permanent. You're temporary, right? And

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so when you get hired as temporary, you basically have maybe a

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year, a two or three year renewal. So

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if it's a year, it's an annual renewal. You don't know if you have a job at the end of that

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fiscal year. So in federal government, you go from April 1st

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to March 31st of the next year. And so at the end of that March

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31st, you may not know a week before if you

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have a job or not. You may be signing your paperwork if it's an annual renewal.

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And people were doing that for 25 years, 30 years, 40 years. They were retiring

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off of it. They were hired as a temporary full-time staff.

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Now, they got all the benefits, and they got the pension, and they got everything, but

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they never knew if they were going to get hired for the long term. A

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lot of them that had been there for a long time kind of went through the motions, and it was

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less risky, but for me as someone who was young, I was like, oh,

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well, this isn't, I got a family to feed. Like, I need something more permanent. I

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would like something more permanent. But what I quickly realized is

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that, and I worked in the private consulting industry before, that

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wasn't a permanent thing and the pension wasn't a pension it

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was you put into a 401k or an rsp if you live in canada and

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uh you would get a bonus you get paid less to keep your hourly rate down but

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you get a bigger bonus and so that would go towards retirement and you'd have to

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almost save for your own retirement now so you're not in a government job

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where you have a pension But you have a private job where

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they're giving you extra money because they're going for profit and they want

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to keep you around if you're good. And if you're not good, if you don't like you, boom,

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if you don't get along with others, you're gone or you're laid off because they

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don't have enough jobs or you're not billable full time or at the 85% that you want. So

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doing private consulting or even consulting on your own is a very difficult

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process because it all depends on how well you can network, how

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well you can build relationships with clients and

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have them come back to you for every single project and build that

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rapport with clients and build that sort of roster of clients so you

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continue to have that as you go along. I've tried working

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for a firm and tried working within there and I've tried working on my

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own. They're both challenging in their own right. If

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you go to a private consulting firm and you can bring

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in jobs, like you're good at doing proposals and

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looking for grants and money and things like that. then

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you can succeed quite well. If you're somebody who's depending on

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other people to get jobs, it really depends on how well you can network within.

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And sometimes networking with different scientists and a company managed by

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scientists is not always easy because what you

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think you do right is not something that they may like or

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not. So it's not an easy gig. Plus

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you are working for industry. you're working

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for or you know companies that are could or

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have a potential doing harm to the environment you're working to make sure that they they

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work within the regulations and things but There's

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definitely a Sense and a lot of people get burnt out by

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the fact like hey I don't really want to be helping these companies pollute more oil

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and gas mining companies and so forth It's

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it could be a difficult thing to really think about now You can

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work for government as a consultant you can work for all these kind of

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things that consultant But it's hard to get those jobs and one of the things where I

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saw that the signs when I was consulting on my own is I got a

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government contract, it was in marine conservation, it was with mapping, and I

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was doing really well, and I was really liking it, and then all of a sudden I

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started to, you know, I tried to apply for another, another sort

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of consulting opportunity. They're saying, oh, we can't, the government can't show

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favoritism towards you again by hiring you twice, even though

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I was well qualified for the job. it was just the way it

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went so I was like well you know if I can't get the job based on merit or

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based on you know they don't want to show favoritism that doesn't leave a

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lot of security for me. At the time I had

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two young kids, I had a mortgage to pay, I had a family to help

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support with my wife who works thank God and I

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decided to get out of that business. because

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it was difficult, because I couldn't really get the contracts that

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I needed to put in my support

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of the family at that time. And so that's

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sort of the nature of private consulting. It's still kind of the same

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whether you're on your own or you're with a firm. There

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could be a lot of money in it for you down the road, but it really depends on

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what your goal is. You can do a lot of fieldwork or you

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can do a lot of paperwork. Again, it really depends within private

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consulting what that goal is. With government, the jobs tend

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not to change, but you're at the will of the

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political party that's in power. So sometimes you'll get a political party

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that wants to inject money into science and into conservation, and

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then others you'll get a political party who wants to cut government spending. And

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so that means they're going to cut support for the public sector, whether it

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be in science, whether it be in statistics, whether

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it be just in people power in general.

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and they cut things. So I was part in Canada, I was part

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of a series of layoffs or people

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being affected at their regular positions because the Conservative

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government of Canada at the time, led by Prime Minister Harper, wanted

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to cut stock assessments, wanted to cut the amount of time it took to

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do environmental assessments. He eventually wanted to cut the Species

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at Risk Act down so that it wouldn't be

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as difficult or as long to do an assessment for

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oil and gas projects. He got some of that done, but

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he didn't get all of that done before he got voted out. That

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wasn't the reason why he got voted out, it was for other reasons. You

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just never know. You're at the behest of the political group in power for the

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government. You get to work with some pretty cool people across

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this industry, but that's sort of the nature of government. So governments change, private

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consulting kind of stays the same, but it could be difficult. There could be

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a lot of challenges of working within that. Now, nonprofit organizations, you

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can do some great work, some really rewarding work, and you can

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do some great things. You can travel around the world depending on the organization. However,

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you're probably not going to get paid a lot. These organizations are

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led and supported by grant and foundation money which

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has changed in their structure in terms of how they give money out. A

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lot of organizations can only give a certain percentage to overhead which is

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basically to their staff which is a main portion of

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their overhead. And so when they get a grant from an organization or

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a grant from a foundation, then these organizations

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can only dedicate a certain amount of money towards salaries and

291
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benefits and supporting their staff. So

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that means the pay is a lot lower because not a lot of those grants

293
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and individual donations may not be enough to support the rest.

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that can be a difficult part. So organizations, a

295
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lot of big organizations tend to hire early career

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researchers because they don't have to pay them as much, but they don't get the same experience, so

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they don't get the same data in their documents. That could be a challenge for

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that organization, plus a challenge for early career or

299
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mid or late career scientists and

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staff because they may not get paid a lot. you

301
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know if they want to stay in a lot of these organizations started forty five thousand

302
00:17:49,422 --> 00:17:52,883
dollars u s if that's not a lot of money to support yourself these

303
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days you know to buy a house or rent an apartment or

304
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do whatever it can be very difficult and i know people who work in the non-profit

305
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or organization and they don't have they may not have a lifestyle that you'd

306
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expect you know they may not have a house they may not be able to be ready

307
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which is fine there's nothing wrong with that not saying there's anything wrong with that

308
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But if people grow up in this industry, I think a lot of times we have this

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sort of grandioso expectations of

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what we'd expect to do as a marine conservationist or a marine

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scientist. And we don't always get that. We don't always

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see the rewards. And the pay is definitely

313
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not up there. We get the rewards of the job. And

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that's great. But you have to support yourself. You have to have that lifestyle. Some

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people will get burnt out. Some people are like, I need to earn money. I need to go out and

316
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do stuff. and that's what they'll do eventually, and they'll maybe

317
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work in a different industry, and maybe stay on a board of directors, or

318
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they'll do something else. Or they'll go on their own and try and consult on

319
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their own, which again is challenging, but it's possible. People

320
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do this stuff all the time, but not as many people do

321
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it. More and more people are doing it because they can control those things. So

322
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there are a lot of things that will help you, or

323
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there are a lot of things that are good about every, you know, advantages and disadvantages to

324
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every sector, but it can be very difficult to

325
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work in that. Non-profit organizations or large organizations or

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small organizations or medium-sized organizations, what I would say

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when you look at these organizations, look at how long people stay,

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ask them how long people stay. If they stay for a long time,

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that means this organization is good to their people. and

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you know you know 10 years 15 years even over five

331
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years is great to see if there's a lot of turnover that means

332
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they're you know their their grants may not come in all the time they

333
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may have to lay people off at times you don't want

334
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to be working for free you want to be working you know for pay

335
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and and to work for an organization to volunteer to

336
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get experience is one thing but to do that as a long term thing unless you're

337
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a rich billionaire is really difficult to do and

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be able to eat and be able to survive on your own. I

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feel like being in marine science and conservation is one

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of those industries where people, especially early career, including myself, when

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I was early career and I just got out of school, I'm like, I'll work

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for free. I'll go out on a boat for free. I'll do that because that looks fun. I

343
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can't wait to do that. That's what I've been dreaming about since I

344
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was 14 years old. That's what I've been looking at libraries and

345
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just thinking about and visualizing what I can do. And

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I'll do it for free. I'll do that work for free. I even volunteered to do statistical analysis

347
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for free when I was younger. Why? Why would I do that? Because

348
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I loved the job so much. I loved doing it so much and I was so enthusiastic. But

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the problem is there are organizations out there, there are people out there that will kind

350
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of predate on people like that and take advantage of

351
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your willingness and passion to do the type of work. So

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if you're going into a consulting role or you want to do work and get experience,

353
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that's one thing. But also understand that you are

354
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a professional at this point. If you have a BSC, an undergrad degree

355
00:21:01,091 --> 00:21:04,452
or a graduate degree, then you are a professional. You deserve to be paid.

356
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And the more times we start to say, and as a staff, we

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start to fight back and be like, we need to get paid for this job, this is for a professional, the

358
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better it is. When you join my group, Marine Science and Conservation Careers, in

359
00:21:16,396 --> 00:21:19,597
the Facebook group, I don't allow, I control all the

360
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posts. I do not allow people to post things just

361
00:21:22,919 --> 00:21:26,320
based on a volunteership unless I see some sort of mentorship or

362
00:21:26,380 --> 00:21:29,882
internship happen through there. In the U.S. there are specific laws

363
00:21:29,942 --> 00:21:33,183
if you advertise for an internship, it either has

364
00:21:33,224 --> 00:21:36,405
to be paid or there has to be some sort of mentorship. There's rules and

365
00:21:36,445 --> 00:21:39,847
regulations around what you post based on like the Ministry of Labor

366
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or the Department of Labor. I'm not too sure the laws there. But that's what

367
00:21:43,609 --> 00:21:46,934
it should be. So I'm very particular about the types of jobs

368
00:21:46,954 --> 00:21:53,393
that get posted. Same in my LinkedIn group, my marine biologists group. that

369
00:21:53,433 --> 00:21:56,954
jobs group is important for me because i'm like i only want to do was paid

370
00:21:57,014 --> 00:22:00,416
positions and if people are putting up the salaries i'll all you know

371
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prioritize based on posting you know post that are job

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00:22:04,037 --> 00:22:07,258
posts that have the salaries within it because people need to know what

373
00:22:07,278 --> 00:22:10,799
they're applying for not to take my time take two weeks to apply

374
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to a job where it's gonna be like

375
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forty five thousand dollars a year i'm sorry forty five years old You

376
00:22:17,951 --> 00:22:21,155
know, I have a mortgage. I have kids who are going to university. I have,

377
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you know, this is not a time where I can work for $45,000 a

378
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year. You know, I need to be able to, you

379
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know, make ends meet. I need to be able to help support my

380
00:22:31,329 --> 00:22:35,092
family. And that's just the way the reality is

381
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of it. So there's certain jobs that I cannot apply for because I need

382
00:22:38,435 --> 00:22:41,978
to know. But I need to know the salaries before I apply to these jobs. Because some of these jobs require

383
00:22:41,998 --> 00:22:45,081
a lot of experience, but they only pay under $50,000 a year. And

384
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at this point, for me, I mean, for an early career researcher, it might

385
00:22:48,384 --> 00:22:52,307
be good. Or early career scientists and conservationists, that might be good. but

386
00:22:52,327 --> 00:22:55,892
for me at this point in my life it's just not that good. So you're adjusting

387
00:22:56,032 --> 00:22:59,156
as you grow into the industry, as you start to evolve into the

388
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industry and as you get older and your priorities change and you have a family or

389
00:23:02,741 --> 00:23:06,006
if you decide to have a family, that's how it's going to change and that's how

390
00:23:06,046 --> 00:23:09,650
you need to look at it and look at salary expectations. And

391
00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:13,511
the salary expectations not only work for when companies

392
00:23:13,611 --> 00:23:16,832
ask you, but when you ask the companies, like, what do you expect to pay for us? What's the

393
00:23:16,892 --> 00:23:20,493
range? More and more companies and organizations are putting up their ranges, which

394
00:23:20,553 --> 00:23:24,274
is great to see, but we still need to push for that. As people

395
00:23:24,294 --> 00:23:27,775
who are trying to apply to jobs, it should be there. You shouldn't

396
00:23:28,055 --> 00:23:31,736
demand the best of the best at $45,000 a year. You

397
00:23:31,756 --> 00:23:35,017
should expect, like, this should be the people we expect, early

398
00:23:35,037 --> 00:23:38,137
career scientists, one or two years, out of college or out of

399
00:23:38,197 --> 00:23:41,319
university and be able to, you know, have that type of experience and build that

400
00:23:41,339 --> 00:23:44,720
type of experience. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you're 45 years

401
00:23:44,860 --> 00:23:49,561
old and you've got, you know, 20 some odd years experience in

402
00:23:49,782 --> 00:23:52,983
sort of the field, then that salary needs to be upped

403
00:23:53,023 --> 00:23:57,978
and that salary needs to be appropriate for that person with that experience. you

404
00:23:58,018 --> 00:24:01,419
know I'm not bringing this to me this is again it's my experience and

405
00:24:01,439 --> 00:24:05,560
I wanted to kind of give you that thought process and to give you hey this

406
00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:08,941
is your career you do what you want but I want you

407
00:24:09,501 --> 00:24:12,642
to really understand sort of the the

408
00:24:12,802 --> 00:24:16,023
differences in what is expected not only in

409
00:24:16,063 --> 00:24:19,584
a job but in a lifestyle as I mentioned before marine

410
00:24:19,604 --> 00:24:23,266
biology and marine conservationists we are very passionate

411
00:24:23,286 --> 00:24:26,488
about the work we'll do. We'll do work for free. We'll do work on top of

412
00:24:26,528 --> 00:24:29,749
work, like as volunteers, even though we have a job in marine

413
00:24:29,769 --> 00:24:33,212
science and conservation, because we love what we do. We'll have pet projects. We'll

414
00:24:33,252 --> 00:24:36,614
always have those projects that we do, whether we're Dr. Andrew Thaler

415
00:24:36,674 --> 00:24:40,076
and we get some of that funded through Patreon, or we're just somebody who's

416
00:24:40,096 --> 00:24:43,438
just really enthusiastic and has data available and wants to publish

417
00:24:43,458 --> 00:24:46,740
a paper on it. We could do that, but you also

418
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,722
have to understand that you have a life beyond work. And

419
00:24:51,182 --> 00:24:54,625
there's a huge push with corporate jobs and things like that to understand that

420
00:24:54,665 --> 00:24:58,047
you work 9 to 5 or you work certain type of hours. Your off

421
00:24:58,267 --> 00:25:01,809
hours should be your hobbies. It shouldn't necessarily be all

422
00:25:01,849 --> 00:25:05,051
enthralled in work. I've seen a lot of people get burnt out

423
00:25:05,472 --> 00:25:08,694
by the work they do in marine science and conservation. They want to do so much.

424
00:25:08,734 --> 00:25:12,036
They want to build their experience, especially when you're young and you want to hustle. That's

425
00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:15,758
fine. You have the energy. You may not have the commitments, the family commitments, or

426
00:25:15,818 --> 00:25:19,080
the financial commitments. And you can take more risks. you

427
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:22,522
know and travel a little bit or or do a volunteership if

428
00:25:22,562 --> 00:25:25,925
you can afford it and it's worthwhile or you can move to

429
00:25:25,965 --> 00:25:29,187
a different city for a little bit and build a you know life in that

430
00:25:29,247 --> 00:25:32,649
city if that's going to be a long-term life or just move for a little bit come back

431
00:25:32,709 --> 00:25:35,971
home and go somewhere else that's great that's great that you're able

432
00:25:36,031 --> 00:25:39,393
to do that when you're younger but as you grow older you your

433
00:25:39,593 --> 00:25:42,775
your commitments financial and family commitments may change as you go

434
00:25:42,815 --> 00:25:46,198
through as you go through life and so you need to realize that

435
00:25:46,258 --> 00:25:49,520
you need to realize that there are things And there are things to do

436
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,222
and hobbies to have outside of work after

437
00:25:53,262 --> 00:25:56,725
that time and to have that break. Everybody needs

438
00:25:56,785 --> 00:26:00,027
a break. You can't think about it all the time. No matter who you are

439
00:26:00,287 --> 00:26:03,549
and what you think, you're going to need a break at some time. You're going to need to shut your

440
00:26:03,569 --> 00:26:07,532
mind off at some time. And having that downtime

441
00:26:07,592 --> 00:26:11,595
with family or with friends or doing a hobby is

442
00:26:11,635 --> 00:26:14,877
really great. And it's really helpful for you to be able to do that.

443
00:26:15,707 --> 00:26:19,270
and not always worry about money. That's a big thing. I can't stress

444
00:26:19,310 --> 00:26:22,892
that enough when I give advice about marine science and conservation

445
00:26:22,952 --> 00:26:26,334
careers. That's a huge, huge thing is be able to support yourself

446
00:26:26,375 --> 00:26:29,397
in the lifestyle that you want to lead. You might be a

447
00:26:29,437 --> 00:26:32,719
minimalist. You might be okay with, you know, renting

448
00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:36,041
apartments. That's great. But just understand that

449
00:26:36,161 --> 00:26:39,702
there are different options within the marine science and conservation world,

450
00:26:39,802 --> 00:26:43,263
and there are different pay options within that world. And be prepared to

451
00:26:43,303 --> 00:26:46,704
take lower than normal salary than a lot of your friends, but also be prepared

452
00:26:47,144 --> 00:26:50,605
to have some pretty cool adventures as well. One

453
00:26:51,165 --> 00:26:54,346
sector I didn't mention is going the professor route or going the

454
00:26:54,386 --> 00:26:57,467
researcher route within a university. And that will require you to

455
00:26:57,527 --> 00:27:00,708
do more graduate work, so a master's and

456
00:27:00,908 --> 00:27:05,029
or a PhD, or just a PhD without a master's. That

457
00:27:05,149 --> 00:27:08,330
is something that you can do. Be advised. There's going

458
00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:11,831
to be a lot more that you have to pay in terms of graduate school.

459
00:27:12,271 --> 00:27:15,532
Not only the tuition, but also your lifestyle surrounding that.

460
00:27:15,592 --> 00:27:19,493
You still have to live somewhere. You still have to be able to do things. You

461
00:27:19,513 --> 00:27:22,794
know, going to conferences and things like that. If you want to build an academic career, you

462
00:27:22,834 --> 00:27:26,055
can do that. And you can become a professor. Just realize that

463
00:27:26,115 --> 00:27:29,676
there aren't as many universities there are marine science and conservationists. And

464
00:27:29,716 --> 00:27:33,377
when you go through university, they try and put you through to you

465
00:27:33,417 --> 00:27:36,759
know the professor track or the academic track because that's what they know but

466
00:27:36,799 --> 00:27:39,961
it doesn't necessarily mean you have to follow that academic career if

467
00:27:40,001 --> 00:27:43,444
you want to become a professor you want to try that out that's great go the professor

468
00:27:43,464 --> 00:27:46,646
route you know do the phd do the postdoc do

469
00:27:46,686 --> 00:27:49,988
another postdoc if you have to stay within that research bounce

470
00:27:50,088 --> 00:27:53,150
out into government and organizations and bounce back in

471
00:27:53,710 --> 00:27:57,334
You know, see how you can build up your teaching experience through your graduate work,

472
00:27:58,095 --> 00:28:01,319
build your networking opportunities through going to conferences and

473
00:28:01,339 --> 00:28:05,306
things like that. It doesn't matter what sector you work on, that's going to be important. But

474
00:28:05,326 --> 00:28:08,888
if you want to be that professor, that's great. You can earn a decent salary. Just remember

475
00:28:08,928 --> 00:28:12,610
that tenure track professorship has changed. And

476
00:28:13,030 --> 00:28:17,073
people who are on tenure track don't always get to

477
00:28:17,213 --> 00:28:20,554
be a tenured professor. So there's not always a guaranteed job if

478
00:28:20,595 --> 00:28:23,896
you become an assistant professor or an associate professor. That's

479
00:28:23,916 --> 00:28:27,879
not always guaranteed to be full tenure anymore. You

480
00:28:28,019 --> 00:28:31,100
don't see that a lot if you see that at all. There's going to

481
00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:34,382
be a pressure to do more teaching. And there's going to be a, you

482
00:28:34,422 --> 00:28:37,524
know, it's sort of like you become more of a teacher role. In

483
00:28:37,544 --> 00:28:41,106
the U.S., a lot of your salary is coming from the grants that you take or

484
00:28:41,146 --> 00:28:44,187
that you get. In Canada, it's a little bit different. I

485
00:28:44,207 --> 00:28:47,689
don't know about other countries. So if you're a professor in other countries, I'd love to hear the differences

486
00:28:47,729 --> 00:28:51,311
in terms of salary. If you're given like a good base salary

487
00:28:51,772 --> 00:28:55,854
and if you are allowed to get money like in the U.S. from grants that

488
00:28:55,874 --> 00:28:59,316
you bring in. Universities want to see money coming

489
00:28:59,376 --> 00:29:02,584
in. They want to see benefits in terms of products and things

490
00:29:02,624 --> 00:29:06,287
like that. Conservation related material and science related material doesn't

491
00:29:06,347 --> 00:29:09,749
always translate into what a dean of that school wants,

492
00:29:09,809 --> 00:29:13,172
whether biological sciences or science or marine science or things like that. A

493
00:29:13,212 --> 00:29:16,754
lot of the times they want to be able to, this university wants to be able to generate money

494
00:29:16,794 --> 00:29:20,196
and revenue more revenue from the products that are made by those professors and

495
00:29:20,216 --> 00:29:23,358
maybe being able to sold. So biotechnology is big. And

496
00:29:23,398 --> 00:29:26,739
you'll see a lot of deans really move their science

497
00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:30,841
department more towards health sciences than marine sciences because you

498
00:29:31,201 --> 00:29:34,323
can publish 80 papers on conservation, but

499
00:29:34,343 --> 00:29:37,684
it doesn't necessarily mean that the university likes that because you're not necessarily

500
00:29:37,745 --> 00:29:40,906
bringing in a ton of money to that. And

501
00:29:41,326 --> 00:29:44,708
part of that is students, graduate students and things like that. But there's this revenue

502
00:29:44,788 --> 00:29:48,842
from products or services that could be generated. So. That's

503
00:29:48,862 --> 00:29:51,983
sort of the breakdown of sort of where we're at in today's world from

504
00:29:52,023 --> 00:29:55,143
what I know. I would love to know if you have any sort of

505
00:29:55,203 --> 00:29:58,524
different experience or perspective. If you wanna come on the podcast and talk about

506
00:29:58,544 --> 00:30:01,884
it and share that perspective, that would be great. I would love to have you on.

507
00:30:01,984 --> 00:30:05,285
If you wanna just share it in a comment on YouTube or

508
00:30:05,305 --> 00:30:08,686
a comment on Spotify or DM me and then you want me to share it, I can share

509
00:30:08,706 --> 00:30:12,306
it or we can have conversations around that. That's gonna be on Instagram, just

510
00:30:12,326 --> 00:30:15,727
DM me at howtoprotecttheocean. Also remember that

511
00:30:15,767 --> 00:30:19,889
I have an app coming out It's probably going to be pushed to September. I'm

512
00:30:19,929 --> 00:30:23,312
working with the company, this is the first time they do this app. It's basically a community app.

513
00:30:24,092 --> 00:30:27,495
What I wanted to do was be able to post everything that I post and all the information that

514
00:30:27,535 --> 00:30:30,678
I post in this app so that you don't have to worry about algorithms and not

515
00:30:30,738 --> 00:30:33,980
receiving certain information but you get all ocean all

516
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,203
the time whenever you go into that app. We'll do an ask me

517
00:30:37,283 --> 00:30:41,026
anything type of of sort

518
00:30:41,046 --> 00:30:44,367
of services. There'll be some upgraded and premium services and

519
00:30:44,687 --> 00:30:48,629
products in there. But it's basically going to be an all you can, you

520
00:30:48,649 --> 00:30:51,911
know, for this for this podcast, as well as for Speak Up

521
00:30:51,931 --> 00:30:55,212
for Blue. So it's going to be great. I'm looking forward to it. But be aware

522
00:30:55,252 --> 00:30:58,354
that's coming out as well. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of

523
00:30:58,374 --> 00:31:01,815
the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm your host, Angelo. And I want you to have a great day.