Tuna Fisheries and Forced Labor: A Deep Dive into Eco-Label Shortcomings

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I want you to picture this, you're in a restaurant, maybe a sushi restaurant, you've

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gone out for sushi with some friends or a group of co-workers for lunch and

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you're ready to chow down, you're ready to just mow down all

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you can eat sushi. You get the tuna spicy roll, it's

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great, it's got a little bit of a kick. it's

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tuna so you know it's good fish and you're eating it

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and eating it and eating it and you're eating it because you've done the responsible thing

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and looking at the restaurant making sure that it follows like the eco labels and

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to be sure that hey you know what this restaurant is buying certified

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sustainable seafood right once you do that No

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guilt, right? You're trying to do the best you can because you've been

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listening to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast, and Andrew has said, follow Seafood

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Watch, follow the Marine Stewardship Council, follow all these ecolabels because

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they've done the work to do the best they can to make sure that

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the seafood that you're eating is the best. And if it isn't,

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that you should avoid. It should tell you that you should avoid it or doesn't support it. And

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that's what we do. We trust in these type of

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ecolabels. But are these ecolabels perfect?

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No. And today we're going to talk about one of the major reasons why they're not perfect

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and why they need to do better. But we're also going to talk about,

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is this the end of these ecolabels? It's going to be a really interesting conversation.

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Let's talk about it on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Let's

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start the show. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm

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your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with

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the ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for

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a better ocean by taking action. And

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on today's episode, we're gonna be talking about tuna fish. We're gonna be talking about tuna

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fisheries, as we did on Monday's episode, two episodes ago.

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where we had the ISSF on the show. It's the International

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Sustainable Seafood Foundation on the show. And

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to talk to Vincent Restrepo, Dr. Restrepo

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to talk about just the sort of the annual report on

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tuna fisheries. We talked about how some busting some of the

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myths of what it is to do to overfish or what dolphins

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in seafood or in tuna fish and so forth. And

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where that's actually concentrated. But we also talked about some

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of the shortcomings of the tuna fisheries and

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not being able to track everything in these regional fishering management

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areas, the RMFOs. And so we're going

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to talk a little bit more about that because there was a new publication

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in Nature, the Ocean Sustainability section. And

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it was an article that was penned by Katrina

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Nakamura. Katrina talks about

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how the Marine Stewardship Council falls short of

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reporting on forced labor. This is fishery slavery. This

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is basically where people go on boats, they get coaxed to

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come on boats, they get paid for fishing boats, but

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then they never get off, or it takes a while before they get off and they're treated like

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crap. They're treated essentially like slaves. like modern

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day slaves. These are people who are not fed properly. They

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don't have access to clean water, just clean anything. It's

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horrible the way they're treated. A lot

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of times if they get sick, they're thrown overboard. And because tuna fisheries

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are so far offshore, It's

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really difficult to monitor them. And so when we talk about

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forced labor and the reporting that the Marine Stewardship Council requires,

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you know, we have to start holding them to a better standard

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than what is actually reported by

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Katrina in this article. So I'm gonna put the link to the article so

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that you can check it out. I highly recommend it I've also looked at

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sort of a summary that Oceana has published because they're advertising

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this across social media that I've seen And they're they're

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letting people know that the MSC the eco label may not be what

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it seems to be Especially when it comes to forced label forced labor because

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of what they demand in terms of what they demand for reporting on

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forced labor So we're gonna talk about that all in good

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time. We've

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talked about jobs and we've talked about something that's really important

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when we get jobs. You want to get a job at an eco-label,

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you want to get a job in research, you want to get a

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job working for a non-profit organization like Oceana. A

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lot of times you'll see like program manager or policy

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analyst or like different, you know, office jobs or

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even field jobs or jobs that have a field component that require some

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type of project management. And you don't get

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project management courses always available to you at

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your university. So you may not have done it in undergrad. You may not have even

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done it in grad school. You may not even know what it's all about. You may already have the

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skills, but you just don't understand what those skills are because you've

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never really taken it and you may have just just incorporate them in your job anyway.

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So some of you may get those jobs based on what you've experienced, but

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others need a little help. And that's something like I do when I did

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my communications course with Conservation Careers. They're offering a

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program management, a project management course, so you can look

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at what it actually takes to become a program manager.

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and what it is for conservation. It's specific for conservation and

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you have the chance to be able to take this course online. It's

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asynchronous so you can just take it and watch the videos and do whatever you need. There's

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somebody who's there to monitor all your tasks and all your reports and things like

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that that you have to hand in for the course to help you get better at that.

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There's a great group that you can use to

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help you throughout that and while you're watching the videos, asking questions

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and so forth and support your work that you're doing. through an

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app called Circle, and it's fantastic. It's all

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seamless, they put you on the app, you get to look at that app

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whenever you want, you get to watch it on the go, whether you're at home, whether you're on the

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go, it doesn't matter, you're in a car, you're on a bus, you can always

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take this course and watch the material, and I just think it's great.

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And right now, it's offered until September 27th, it's offered for 33% off.

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All you have to do is just use the link in the show notes or

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in the description if you're watching this on YouTube, or if you're on an app, it's in the show

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notes, Just check it out, take a look at it, read what it's

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all about, and then use the link to sign up

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for the course. I do get a little piece of

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the action, but also you get to help your

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career. And yeah, that's essentially it.

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So check that out, link in the show notes, and I will

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be able to answer any questions that you

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might have on this. Anyway, let's get back to the show because this

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is something that's really important. Oceana has put out

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an article, a press release really, to

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talk about what's happening with tuna fishing. And

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we talked about tuna fishing on Monday, on the two episodes ago, and

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we talked about sort of where things are at based on the annual report. We never really

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talked about forced labor because forced labor is

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covered under the I guess the application status

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or the reporting for the MSC, which is the Marine

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Stewardship Council, which is an eco-label that basically certifies the

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tuna fishing label, the vessel, the distribution companies, the processing

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companies, and so forth, the whole supply chain as

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eco-friendly and as following all of the

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demands that are required to qualify under the

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MSC, under the Marine Stewardship Council. But there's a

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problem with forced labor. And it was highlighted by Katrina Nakamura,

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who put out this article that Oceana is

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publicizing, because it's something that is concerning

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when we look at it. And like I mentioned in the beginning in the intro, You

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know, you're at a restaurant or you're buying seafood. You

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look for the MSC label just like I do. And you're like, oh, this is

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a label, an Inco label that we can trust. This is something that we can see that

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is, you know, they're using proper, they're treating their employees properly,

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the fishers properly, the processors and everything like that throughout the supply chain

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properly. They're following human rights sessions, as

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everybody should be. They're making sure that the tuna is sustainable and

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following the rules of each RMFO and all that

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kind of stuff. But unfortunately for this situation, it

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doesn't look like it's easy to track or it's being tracked properly when

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it comes to forced labor. And that's really what

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it comes down to the problem. So the

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person who wrote it, Katrina Nakamura, who's a PhD, said,

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and I quote, in a matter of minutes, I was able to find multiple cases

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of forced labor on vessels that are part of the MSC, the

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Marine Stewardship Council Certified Fisheries, by comparing data

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from the vessel registries of all the tuna regional

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fisheries management organizations against highly publicized lists

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of implicated vessels. She goes on to say, if

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it was this easy for me to find this information, it's

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hard to believe that MSC could be unaware of

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this problem. There is an estimated 128,000 fishers

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that are trapped in forced labor aboard fishing vessels by

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businesses recruiting fishers for very low

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wages to work intensely in hazardous and remote conditions who

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then experience untended injuries, illness, unpaid and

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withheld wages, psychological or physical abuse.

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Nakamura analyzed data from 3,313 tuna vessels

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listed on the MSC's website and found that 74% of

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MSC certified sustainable tuna was untraceable to

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the vessel owners fishing or fishing employers. So

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being able to have the tuna that's coming through the

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supply chain, so the processors, the distributors, and everything like

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that, you couldn't match the vessels of where that's coming from and

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how much they're actually contributing to each one. And so the MSC

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standards rely on self-reported information by trade associations,

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manufacturers, and distributors rather than the

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vessel owners or employers. And the MSC does not

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screen vessels or companies against publicized lists

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of labor abuses, which is what Katrina did for

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this study. So these standards leave room for vessels associated with

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crimes such as human trafficking and forced labor to benefit and

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profit from the MSC eco-label. So in other words, they

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fly under this eco-label, everybody thinks it's fine, they self-report,

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or the vessels don't have to self-report because it's all the different trade

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associations, manufacturers, and distributors that are self-reporting, but

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the vessels, where the forced labor actually happens, does not

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have to self-report. That's a question in itself, like why do the vessels,

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why are the vessels not held accountable? The other thing is too, is

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like nobody looks at these vessels. Nobody goes aboard

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them, there's no fisheries observer, there's no human rights observers that seem to be

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part of this eco-label, you know, sort of requirements. And

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so this, again, is another problem where you're like, well, hold

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on a second, how do you know that this is a problem? What you're

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relying on is the self-reported information from people

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who are not even on the vessel. to say, hey, you know what? We

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haven't seen any indication or any evidence that there's been forced labor.

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It seems like it's a loophole to say, we don't care.

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We're not looking. We don't have to check. It's not saying that we have to check. There's no evidence

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that we have to provide. There are no conditions that we have to look at on

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the vessels. There's no auditors for each vessel. It

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seems like that is missing from the MSE label,

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legal label requirements, right? That's what seems to be missing. And

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so the MSC has recognized concerns about forced labor and human

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rights abuses occurring in tandem with illegal, unreported, and

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unregulated fishing in the tuna supply chain, but tells

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consumers that the best way for tuna buyers to significantly reduce exposure

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to the above risk is to choose MSC certified

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tuna. That's a quote directly from MSC. Now that's

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a little bit of a problem because even though you expect

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the ECO label to be able to be followed, It's not being followed because

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it's not properly reported. So Nakamura continues,

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she says, this is clearly bad advice considering MSC clients, including a

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company associated with the U.S. tuna ban for forced labor,

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whose self-declaration states, quote, no evidence

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of forced labor, end quote. The quote,

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this is Nekomura saying this, the MSC should have far more effective barrier

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for protecting vulnerable workers. They

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evidently choose not to do so. A more robust barrier would

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exclude all companies with any association to fisheries crimes

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and include a firm rule that vessel owners to be identified and

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screened against highly publicized lists of implicated vessels, such

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as the notice of sanction actions published

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on the Federal Register of the United States. It

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seems straightforward. It seems straightforward. So

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the question really comes down to, and I want to be very

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clear here, this episode is not to demonize

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the Marine Stewardship Council. They are taking on

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an amazingly huge task of making

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sure that a supply chain around the world for a number

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of different fisheries, I think it's like 400 and some odd fisheries, are

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sustainable and are following human rights, are

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treating their employees properly, treating their contractors and the fishers properly.

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It is not easy. The MSC is not a huge organization. However,

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it has taken on the task and the responsibility to ensure that

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the consumers that are consuming the fisheries

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and the fish are

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understanding that everything is good with the

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fisheries. With all things considered, everything should

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be good. There shouldn't be any forced labor. There

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should be sustainable treatment of the fish and the fisheries.

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We should know that they're following quotas and following the rules of the RFMOs. You

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know, this is pretty easy to do. Well,

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it's pretty easy to think about, but it's not easy to do. Like, I fully

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recognize this is not easy to do. However, it's

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very difficult when, you know, MSC is certifying

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that there's no forced labor, when it's self-reported by people that are not even on the

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boat. That's really tough to swallow. It's a tough pill

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to swallow. So according to the

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solutions here, to help mitigate labor violations at sea, Oceana

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is calling on world governments to apply for the Global Charter of

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Fisheries Transparency. The charter

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pinpoints the most essential policy priorities

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needed to combat fisheries management, illegal fishing, and

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human rights abuses at sea, including collecting data on the conditions of

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fishing vessel crews and publishing it while keeping

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it personally identifiable information primary. it. That's

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pretty easy. It looks like the system's already there. So

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my question is, how many countries are a part of this and why aren't countries signing up

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more and more? So in the United States, Oceania is campaigning

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for immediate action to address illegal fishing, seafood fraud, and human rights

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abuses in the US seafood supply chain. This includes

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expanding the seafood import monitoring programs called SIMP

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to cover all seafood. Only 45% of the imported seafood is currently

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covered, and all production standards, including forced

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labor. That's the article. I've read a lot of it because

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I thought it was really important for you to know. I'll link to

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it in the show notes and in the description on our YouTube video. This

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is very concerning. You know, like I said before, as

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a consumer and as someone on the end user point,

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when you're trying to use these ecolabels, you know they're never going to be perfect.

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But forced labor is a serious thing that's happening around

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the world and it's disrupting and harming

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the lives of a lot of individuals and families of

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vulnerable people. These are people who are trying to make money to

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protect their kids, to protect their families, to ensure that their families can

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thrive and survive. And

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they may never see their families again. They may never be able to send their money back

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home again because of fishing vessels

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that are up to no good. A

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lot of times, we talk about protecting the environment, protecting

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fisheries, protecting the ocean. I mean, this is what this podcast is about. But

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it has to be human-centric. We have to protect the humans that are using the

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oceans. We have to protect the fishers as much as possible. while

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protecting the ocean. This is why conservation is so complex.

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It is so difficult to be able to do. You can't just

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snap your fingers and say, hey, this is easy. We're going to be able to do

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this. Just stop eating seafood. That's not going to happen around

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the world. I wish it was that easy. It's

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very complex. 60% of the population of our 8 billion population

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on the planet lives along the coastline. And they

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need to be fed. They need to eat. And a lot of the times they

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look towards fishing and fish and seafood to be

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able to eat. Now, there are ways to make it more sustainable and there are many

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ways that we can reduce our impact on fisheries and on the

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oceans. We just have to put them in place. And when there are ecolabels who

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are trying to do the best that they can to get these done, like MSC, like

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Seafood Watch, we have to make sure that they are being held to the

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standard that they are professing. If

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they're not being able to do that, we have to put them like, what Katrina is doing is

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not just identifying the problem, but demanding a solution, right?

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You can't claim that you are making sure that there's no forced labor

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in tuna fisheries when we know that there's forced labor in

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tuna fisheries. We've proven that. Katrina looked at those lists and

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said, hey, you know what? We have one list of the fishing vessels, but

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there are some fishing vessels that are on this list that have been accused of

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forced labor. And they're under the MSC label.

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And they're saying, hey, you know what? We've self-identified, we self-proclaimed,

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there's no problem here. Nothing to see here, just look away.

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And nobody's looking, nobody's looking. They're just expecting them to

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work on the honor system. Well, people who do forced labor are not honorable

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and they do not work on the honor system. And we need to make sure that the

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eco labels that say that they're gonna do something, that

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they need to do something. If not, we need to hold it to better standards.

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or they need to take away that they can say that these ecolabels

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stop forced labor. I would love for them to stop forced labor. It's not easy.

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It's very difficult to do so. There's a lot of crime involved, crime

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syndicates. It's very hard to track. We've talked about it before on this

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podcast, but it'd be great if they could, you know, hold

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them to the fire and say, let's do better, right?

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These ecolabels do a lot of great things. but sometimes

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there's some shortcomings and now we've seen it and this is a very serious

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matter we're talking about forced labor talking about fisheries slaves

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We can't have it. It's unacceptable. So they need to improve that

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process. I did try to reach out to MSC, some

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of my contacts, but it seems like I couldn't get ahold of them. And

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I would love to hear from them at some point, and hopefully we'll hear a response from

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them. But the fact that it's saying, hey, you're better off buying tuna

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fish that are under this label, under the MSC label,

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because we know we're doing our best to stop forced labor doesn't necessarily mean

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that they're stopping forced labor. With that said, does it mean that other

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fish and seafood that's within the MSC is

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bad? Not necessarily, right? And

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so you have to look at it from case by case basis. What I would suggest,

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stop eating tuna altogether until we know more about this forced labor stuff.

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But that's again, a difficult thing to do. I'm in the position where

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I can do that. I'm not sure if everybody's in that position. But

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if you don't need tuna in your diet, or you don't have tuna in your diet, it makes it

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easy. But if you need tuna, it makes it harder. But

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we need to make sure that these ecolabels, like

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MSC, are held to the standard that they're professing that

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they're keeping. So I'd love to hear your, you

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know, I'd love to hear what you think about this. You know, I did cover an

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episode just a couple days ago or a couple episodes ago where

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we talked about tuna fishing. We talked about some of the problems that we have. We talked about how, you

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know, some RFMOs are not able to

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look at different RFMOs. We don't know if they're double dipping

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and some of the vessels are double dipping. And it sounds like there's not a lot of quality

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control on the vessels themselves. in terms of what they're doing on

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the vessels. And so there's some problems. We know that there's

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these problems. Now it's a matter of making sure that ecolabels like

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MSC, who say they're looking after that, do better in looking after that. So

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I'd love to hear your opinion on this. Have you heard anything different?

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Have you heard of any response from MSC? I would love to

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hear from you, because this is a community. This is the beginning. I'd like to start off

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the conversation. You guys continue it. And I'd love to

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hear from you on YouTube. You can drop a comment in the

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comments section, of course. Also, you can do that on Spotify.

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And of course, you can always hit me up on Instagram, at howtoprotecttheocean. That's

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at howtoprotecttheocean. I want to thank you so much for joining me on today's

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episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to

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you. Oh, by the way, I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. Talk