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What do you know about marine pollution? Probably not

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a lot because it's not something that we discuss as

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a whole. We discuss plastic pollution, that's probably the major

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marine pollution that we discuss. We don't talk a lot about toxins and

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algae and all this other kind of stuff and chemicals in the water and

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so forth, but not to worry because you can find

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out everything you need to know by buying

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the book marine pollution what everyone needs to know

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it's the second edition and i have dr judith weiss

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who is the author of this uh... addition and

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she was the author of the first edition and fun fact Judith

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was my first ever interview, my first ever

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episode here on the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. It was called Speak

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Up for Blue at that point, but now it's called How to Protect the Ocean.

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It's been 10 years later and she is here to talk about

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her new edition because we talked about the first edition. Now we're going to talk about the second edition

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and I can't wait for you to hear this. So let's start the show. Hey

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everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm

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your host, Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how

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you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by

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taking action. And on today's episode, we are

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talking to Dr. Judith Weiss who

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has written a book called marine pollution what everyone needs to

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know the second edition and like I said in the pre-intro This

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is a very special episode for me kind of brings me back to

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my first ever episode that I published with Judith talking

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about marine pollution what everybody needs to know the first edition and

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I love the book because of this it's not just your regular

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textbook now I You know, Judith has one

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hell of a fulfilling career in academia. She has published

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multiple, multiple journal articles on marine ecology, on

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water quality, seagrass, salt marshes, all these different types

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of systems, plastic pollution, and so forth. And she

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turned to writing books. And a lot of the times, I get skeptical when somebody

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from the academic field starts to publish books for

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a general audience. But she has done it perfectly. she

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is to

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help with marine pollution. And I think that's something that's extremely, extremely

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helpful. And it's something that we need to do more. And to

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be honest, like it's something that we talk about a lot here in terms of helping

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and how you can help and how you can feel optimistic about the ocean. But

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this book is something that I highly recommend for anybody who

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wants to know more about how important water

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quality is, whether it be freshwater, whether it be brackish water, which

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is a mix of ocean and freshwater or ocean water. It

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doesn't matter. Marine pollution affects everything. It affects everybody. Especially

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when we talk about plastics, it actually affects our own health. In

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terms of now we're seeing it in the air, we're seeing it in the water, we're seeing it

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in our drinking water. It's everywhere. And so we

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need to do something more to reduce it. And to do the first thing you

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need to do is inform yourselves. And to inform yourself, you need to buy

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this book to inform yourself on marine pollution. But I

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want you to listen to this interview because a lot of it is focused around you

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know, marine plastics and marine debris, something that's really, really important.

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But we talked a little bit about algae, the recent episode

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that I covered about the toxins that were released

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from algae, from dinoflagellate. in Florida

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that affected 80 species, killing 80 different species of

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fish. So we're going to talk a lot about that, and

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we just talk about how policy is important, what

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to look for in the upcoming elections, whether you're in the States or

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potentially in Canada, which might happen a little earlier than we expected, earlier

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than 2025, or probably earlier than October 2025, I should say. But yeah. I

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think this is gonna be one of those episodes where you can be like, man, this is really, really

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good. Judith is awesome. I can't wait for you to listen to this interview. So here's

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the interview with Judith Weiss talking about her book, Marine Pollution,

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What Everyone Needs to Know, second edition. Enjoy, and

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I will talk to you after. Hey, Judith, welcome back

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to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about

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Right on. This is a very special episode for me. Not

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only is it great to have Dr. Judith Weiss on the podcast,

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but Judith, you were my first ever interview for

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this podcast. That's 10 years ago. Actually, it was even further back than

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that because it took me a while to get it published. So we have

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known each other for over a decade. We've met in

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person, not in the US, not because we're actually closer than we

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think, but actually in Borneo, in Malaysia, at a conference. And

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that's sometimes how it works in the marine world. But you have

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released a second edition of Marine Pollution, which is

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the reason why you were on the podcast in the first place talking

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about marine pollution, a book that I absolutely love and I recommend to

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a lot of people. I think I actually just lent it out to someone recent. in

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the last couple of months. But it's the one I always tell people to read

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because it's a book that's really easy to understand for

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people who don't know much about the ocean or about marine pollution and

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the pollution that it faces. And so I love the fact that

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you came out with a second one. There's probably a lot to update, so I can't wait

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to get into that. But before we do, why don't you just let people know and

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remind the audience, the real fans, the ones that

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have been here since day one, why don't you just remind

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Hi, I've been a professor of marine

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biology at Rutgers through an entire

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career. I'm now technically retired but still very

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busy. A lot of that time

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I studied aspects of pollution. I

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worked in parts of northern New Jersey that

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were highly industrialized and had all kinds of

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metals and organic contaminants as a

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result of a century or so of

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heavy industry without any rules and regulations about

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what these industries should do with their wastes. They

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were just dumping them right into the water. So

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we did lots of studies of how

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the mixture of all these contaminants, what

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kinds of effects it had, on the animals that lived there

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and stuff like that. But

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in addition to the original research, we published

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lots of academic papers, I was also interested

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in writing books for the general public. That was a pretty recent,

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I didn't do that through the career, I started that maybe 15 years

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ago, or getting closer

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to 20 years ago. having

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published a book about salt

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marshes, a book about fish, a book about crabs, I

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noticed that Oxford University Press was

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doing a series called X

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colon, What Everyone Needs to Know. It could

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be any topic from history, social

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science, English literature, any field at

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all. including science. So I

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thought, well, and I wrote and asked, would they be

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interested in one on marine pollution? And

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that's how it all came about a decade

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ago. And then about

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two years ago, maybe a year and a half, two years

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ago, I got an email from the guy who had

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been my editor And he said, would you be interested

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in doing another, a second edition of

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this book? I thought about it and

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thought, yeah, there's a lot of things that have happened since

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then. And so that's what I spent

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a fair amount of time doing, was revising the

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I love it. I love it. I can't wait to get into this book because you have a

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number of other books that you have written. Going

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from a career in academia and looking

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at applications and looking how water is

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affected by disturbances and like you

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said, unchecked, dumping unchecked, any

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kind of whatever we decide to do

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as humans during that time. What made you

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decide to start writing these books? Like you said, you

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kind of did it towards the end of your career. Was it something of like, it's

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just more, look, I've learned so much, I need to hit a

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different audience, because you have publications and so forth. So I'm sure you've,

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you know, contributed to the scientific community. What

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I never had thought about it. A friend asked

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my husband if he would be interested in working with

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him on a book about salt marshes. And

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my husband said, nah. I was there and I said, yes,

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I would. And we

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talked back and forth for several months and it turned out that he was

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very busy and really had no time to do it after all. And

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then I went and found another co-author because this was

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my first venture into writing books for the general public

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rather than a technical, scientific-type journal

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articles. So I found a co-author who

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helped me with the writing to make it

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more user-friendly writing for a general audience,

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and that was the Saltmarsh book. And then it kind of went

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from there. So it was a total accident. It was nothing I

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thought to myself, yes, I should write some book. If

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he hadn't approached my husband about writing this book, probably

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So it's just being at the right place at the right time. And it must

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have hit something, like triggered something that intrigued you about

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writing to sort of a general audience, a non-scientific

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audience. What about that was important to you to follow? Because

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I mean, taking on a book as you know, is a

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huge, it's a bigger project than a lot of people think. What

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triggered that in you to be like, I want to speak to the

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I just thought it was very important to do that. You

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know, scientists can't be just in a little clump

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talking to each other. The general public needs

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to know, particularly with all these environmental topics

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that lead into policy choices and voting choices

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and everything about being a good citizen of

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the world and being concerned about the state of

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the environment of this planet. And I

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had taught courses for non-science majors.

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So I felt, you know, I was capable

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of doing this. And sort

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of that's where it was. It's sort of part of my, or

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whatever on behalf of the environment to get more people to

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understand the problems and want to act

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Got you. Now, you've had an extensive career over decades. A

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lot of the times, talking about science

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or talking about marine ecology was not really

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looked favorable or people weren't incentivized to do so.

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As you started writing these books, were you worried about what

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colleagues would have said or what the public would have said in terms of,

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you know, trying to attack any of the books that you said, or you were just like, no, I

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I had no concerns like that. I

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was still publishing papers. You know, I

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was very close to retirement. So no,

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no worries at all. I didn't have any

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worries earlier on in my career when I

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was an activist. The

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university did not harass me, did not bother me

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Can you elaborate just a little bit on that activism part? What were you

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Back in the early days when I was very young, I was involved in the

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women's movement. It was about feminism, but

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later on, I got involved in

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public policy about the environment. I

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went down to Washington as a science

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policy fellow for the American Association of

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Advancement of Science. They always sponsor people

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to go to Washington. And I worked in the Senate. And

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that sort of started me off into policy issues. And

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Rutgers did not have a problem with that. They actually gave me

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an award about 20 years

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ago, a policy.

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I don't remember what it was called, but it was something

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dealing with policy, not just your academic. I

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And that's fine. I think what's interesting is

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seeing someone in academia take that stance and being like, look, I

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have all this information and knowledge and experience in

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marine ecology and looking at how it's been affecting you

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know, our, our water systems. But then you go above

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and beyond and just be like, Okay, now I'm interested in looking how policy shapes

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that. So I think as scientists throughout our careers, we get,

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we almost get to like certain epiphanies during our career, where

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the first you want to start off a lot of people academia, and then let's do

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research, and let's do this. And then you start noticing things as you learn. more

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and more about the environment the things that are affecting you realize that

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there are certain times where the environment takes a backseat to

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you know what happens out there you know and and and

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to policies and so forth and a lot of times things get built over over

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natural land salt marshes mud flats and so forth and

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You realize that well I should have maybe I could have stood up for that a little bit Then

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you start to get a little bit more of an actress as you get later on in your career

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or even mid-career depending on the person. So I think

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that's like a fair assessment, right? Have you seen that happen with

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It really started mid-career with me. It was in the 80s.

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I haven't seen a lot of my colleagues go

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there. But I certainly have met many

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other people there who were and still are

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academics one place or another. So

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there's a good collection of academics

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in some sort of environmental field that are out

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there trying to improve the environment one

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That's a great insight. It's

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00:15:51,799 --> 00:15:55,905
interesting to see a book come out on marine pollution. We

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hear about and I talk a lot about issues

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00:15:59,450 --> 00:16:03,255
that are facing the ocean. You've got fisheries. You've got climate change.

244
00:16:04,376 --> 00:16:07,978
You have coastal development. You have marine plastics,

245
00:16:08,018 --> 00:16:11,481
which is a water quality and marine pollution issue. But

246
00:16:11,501 --> 00:16:15,123
it never gets qualified. When

247
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you hear about plastics, you hear about plastics as the pollution. And it is a pollutant, and

248
00:16:18,526 --> 00:16:22,428
it's a big problem. But you don't hear the term marine pollution

249
00:16:22,868 --> 00:16:25,969
a lot being covered in the media or even like even on my

250
00:16:26,009 --> 00:16:29,390
podcast. I rarely say the word marine pollution unless I'm

251
00:16:29,470 --> 00:16:32,610
referring to your books. I was like, if you want to know about marine pollution, you

252
00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:36,511
got a great guide here. You know, why do

253
00:16:36,531 --> 00:16:40,092
you think like people aren't talking about marine pollution

254
00:16:40,232 --> 00:16:43,473
other than like say things like plastics as much in sort of the

255
00:16:46,594 --> 00:16:51,919
Well, plastics is the one thing that is in

256
00:16:51,939 --> 00:16:56,120
the news a lot. I

257
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,423
don't know if I'm going to regret saying this, but it's the

258
00:16:59,543 --> 00:17:03,366
biggest problem that has not yet been addressed.

259
00:17:03,906 --> 00:17:07,209
Well, I can't. That's not true. Climate. Climate is

260
00:17:07,229 --> 00:17:12,293
being addressed, but not enough. And

261
00:17:12,353 --> 00:17:15,975
I include a chapter in climate. That's not typical in

262
00:17:16,016 --> 00:17:19,258
a marine pollution book to have a chapter on

263
00:17:19,338 --> 00:17:23,341
climate. I also have a chapter on invasive species, which

264
00:17:23,421 --> 00:17:26,694
I generally not thought of as pollution, but

265
00:17:26,754 --> 00:17:30,998
could be considered biological pollution. Animal

266
00:17:31,058 --> 00:17:34,600
or plant that's not been there, they're making

267
00:17:34,660 --> 00:17:39,384
problems. I lost

268
00:17:42,913 --> 00:17:46,636
That's funny, you talked a lot about what I asked. In terms of marine

269
00:17:50,038 --> 00:17:53,580
Plastics is the biggest deal these days. It's what I've

270
00:17:53,620 --> 00:17:59,104
been spending a great deal of my time on. Not

271
00:17:59,184 --> 00:18:02,866
just in the research world, but in the policy world

272
00:18:03,026 --> 00:18:07,269
as well. There

273
00:18:07,309 --> 00:18:11,211
is a scientist coalition for an effective plastics

274
00:18:11,391 --> 00:18:14,974
treaty. which is a worldwide network of

275
00:18:15,554 --> 00:18:18,876
a couple hundred scientists from all over,

276
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some of whom can go to the

277
00:18:24,099 --> 00:18:28,341
negotiating sessions for the treaty. The

278
00:18:28,401 --> 00:18:31,643
last one was in Ottawa. I

279
00:18:31,703 --> 00:18:34,965
haven't gone to any, but I have friends that I've

280
00:18:35,025 --> 00:18:38,343
made there some of whom I have not met face

281
00:18:38,383 --> 00:18:42,344
to face, but I still consider them friends because we have meetings

282
00:18:42,444 --> 00:18:46,225
and we write position papers and policy briefs

283
00:18:46,285 --> 00:18:49,786
and all this sort of thing. And

284
00:18:49,826 --> 00:18:53,387
so I've not physically been

285
00:18:53,427 --> 00:18:57,168
there, but I've got friends in this coalition

286
00:18:57,608 --> 00:19:01,450
who go there. And as

287
00:19:01,490 --> 00:19:05,018
an objective science, bringing

288
00:19:05,118 --> 00:19:08,899
science, the science about plastics, to

289
00:19:08,939 --> 00:19:12,200
the negotiators. Because without the

290
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,382
scientific community, they would be hearing only

291
00:19:16,482 --> 00:19:20,463
from the lobbyists of the plastics industry, who

292
00:19:20,543 --> 00:19:24,364
show up at those meetings in large numbers. There

293
00:19:24,404 --> 00:19:27,925
were 200 of them at the Ottawa

294
00:19:27,965 --> 00:19:31,546
meetings. So that's far more

295
00:19:31,606 --> 00:19:37,848
than the scientists who were able to come. But

296
00:19:38,248 --> 00:19:41,790
we still don't know. We have one more meeting left in Busan,

297
00:19:41,870 --> 00:19:45,031
Korea in a few months. That's supposed to be

298
00:19:45,051 --> 00:19:48,133
the final meeting where they hammer out the final part of

299
00:19:48,173 --> 00:19:51,994
the treaty. And the scientist coalition is

300
00:19:52,074 --> 00:19:55,536
putting out policy briefs on

301
00:19:55,656 --> 00:19:58,977
specific issues that we hope

302
00:19:59,538 --> 00:20:03,651
the negotiators read. These are also written. for

303
00:20:03,691 --> 00:20:08,012
the lay, just like my book. For the non-scientists,

304
00:20:08,052 --> 00:20:11,373
the negotiators are probably mostly all

305
00:20:11,473 --> 00:20:14,854
lawyers. And so

306
00:20:14,914 --> 00:20:19,895
it's the same idea, writing short two-pagers

307
00:20:21,055 --> 00:20:25,736
on specific issues about

308
00:20:25,776 --> 00:20:29,837
plastic pollution. So I'm involved with this, as

309
00:20:29,897 --> 00:20:34,540
well as still writing papers. generating

310
00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:38,321
new data, I'm retired, I don't have a lab, I don't have graduate students,

311
00:20:38,361 --> 00:20:41,862
all that. But I

312
00:20:41,962 --> 00:20:46,523
still can write reviews and critiques and

313
00:20:46,963 --> 00:20:50,783
work with teams of other people about

314
00:20:50,883 --> 00:20:54,924
various issues about plastic. That's what I've been focusing

315
00:20:55,084 --> 00:20:58,325
on most of the time over the past decade, I'd

316
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,104
Yeah, and you've been very active. I've seen you on the, there's a listserv,

317
00:21:03,144 --> 00:21:06,427
the Marine Debris listserv, and you've been very active on there. I've seen

318
00:21:06,447 --> 00:21:10,150
you very active on social media talking and sharing information

319
00:21:10,350 --> 00:21:13,694
about marine plastics. And it's

320
00:21:13,754 --> 00:21:16,977
really interesting, you know, looking at the book and how

321
00:21:17,017 --> 00:21:21,822
you write the book for a non-scientific audience. A

322
00:21:21,882 --> 00:21:25,625
lot of things come out about marine plastics within sort

323
00:21:25,645 --> 00:21:28,807
of like the general context of things. The big

324
00:21:28,847 --> 00:21:32,050
thing I hear, it's almost like people are just sick

325
00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:35,812
of hearing about plastic straws. As you know, a plastic straw

326
00:21:35,832 --> 00:21:40,256
was pulled out of a sea turtle's nose. It was actually done, the video

327
00:21:40,276 --> 00:21:43,418
was taken by a friend of mine, Christine Figgener, as well as

328
00:21:43,458 --> 00:21:46,900
the person who took it out was Dr. Christine Figgener

329
00:21:46,961 --> 00:21:50,283
and Dr. Nathan Robinson that took it out. And then later on,

330
00:21:50,423 --> 00:21:53,846
you know, about four months later, he took out, he found an olive ridley turtle

331
00:21:53,906 --> 00:21:57,329
with a plastic fork in his nose, took

332
00:21:57,389 --> 00:22:00,632
that out just about four months after that. Fork in his nose? Fork, it's the

333
00:22:00,692 --> 00:22:04,315
same kind of thing, he thought it was a straw. He was actually out, it

334
00:22:04,355 --> 00:22:08,439
was four months, it was just about 70 kilometers south of where he was, and

335
00:22:08,579 --> 00:22:11,762
somebody, it was like a tourist attraction when all the ridleys come

336
00:22:11,802 --> 00:22:15,084
in to lay their eggs, and people were walking around and

337
00:22:15,985 --> 00:22:19,149
Um, he was doing, he was doing, uh, epibiotic, or

338
00:22:19,229 --> 00:22:22,413
epi, epibiome, um, study, and

339
00:22:22,453 --> 00:22:25,877
somebody pulled him aside and said, hey, there's something wrong with this turtle, and he was bleeding

340
00:22:25,917 --> 00:22:29,221
from his nose again, and he said, oh, probably a

341
00:22:29,261 --> 00:22:32,697
straw, and then ended up taking out a plastic fork. You

342
00:22:32,737 --> 00:22:36,020
know, and it was literally folded within its nasal cavity

343
00:22:36,060 --> 00:22:39,644
in one nasal cavity, and when he took it out, it folded up, and he's like, yeah,

344
00:22:42,346 --> 00:22:45,609
And so, you know, but- He must have inhaled it

345
00:22:48,663 --> 00:22:51,946
Yeah, it must have been. Yeah, I don't know how that happened.

346
00:22:52,366 --> 00:22:56,629
What Nathan kind of assumed was

347
00:22:56,689 --> 00:22:59,931
that all of Ridleys tend to experiment a

348
00:22:59,951 --> 00:23:03,313
little bit in terms of how they eat. And so they bite on

349
00:23:03,353 --> 00:23:06,535
something first before they realize that it's not food. This one, the

350
00:23:06,575 --> 00:23:09,838
way it was in, the water may have looked like a shrimp. And so when

351
00:23:09,878 --> 00:23:13,821
it went, it may have just gotten it in the folds, and then as it cost

352
00:23:13,861 --> 00:23:18,127
or something try to get it out and went through its naval cavity he thinks so obviously

353
00:23:18,227 --> 00:23:21,612
awful stories to see and it made a huge impact at that time it

354
00:23:21,652 --> 00:23:25,397
kind of brought the plastic straw to the forefront of the

355
00:23:25,477 --> 00:23:29,022
the the plastic you know the the clean up plastic movement

356
00:23:29,806 --> 00:23:33,047
And now I constantly hear people joking about plastic straws, like I'm sick of

357
00:23:33,087 --> 00:23:36,268
plastic straws and this and that. And they're just like,

358
00:23:36,688 --> 00:23:39,809
we're not worried about a plastic straw. The way I always say is it's

359
00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:43,731
sort of like a symbol of

360
00:23:43,791 --> 00:23:46,952
our plastic problem that we have in this world. And this is just an

361
00:23:47,012 --> 00:23:50,813
example. This poor sea turtle, both sea turtles, had this

362
00:23:50,853 --> 00:23:54,382
in their mouth, in their nose. So I guess the question

363
00:23:54,462 --> 00:23:58,123
is that I have for you as I go on this long, long rant, is,

364
00:23:58,604 --> 00:24:02,426
you know, you hear people talk about this, you hear politicians talk

365
00:24:02,486 --> 00:24:05,707
about this, where they're sick of like, oh, plastic straw

366
00:24:05,747 --> 00:24:08,969
is not an issue, and this and that, and they kind of like, it seems like it's

367
00:24:09,009 --> 00:24:12,451
taken a turn for, in the opposite direction of

368
00:24:12,951 --> 00:24:16,155
how people are looking at plastics. How as

369
00:24:16,235 --> 00:24:19,518
scientists and science communicators, do we combat them and kind

370
00:24:19,558 --> 00:24:23,000
of bring them over and just be like, Hey, no, there is actually a problem. It's

371
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,762
not just start and ends with with one plastic straw. How

372
00:24:26,782 --> 00:24:30,105
do we convince people of that? Or

373
00:24:31,265 --> 00:24:36,489
I don't know how to convince people who are skeptical

374
00:24:36,569 --> 00:24:40,551
about all of this. But there have been plenty of cases, for

375
00:24:40,591 --> 00:24:44,073
example, of dead whales washing up

376
00:24:44,113 --> 00:24:48,435
with a stomach full of plastic, which

377
00:24:48,515 --> 00:24:54,257
is perhaps more upsetting

378
00:24:54,317 --> 00:24:57,858
than the turtle with the straw. They're feeding

379
00:24:58,018 --> 00:25:02,119
on so many animals that feed on plastic pieces,

380
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,701
and they can't get regular

381
00:25:06,761 --> 00:25:10,473
food. Their stomach's all clogged with the plastic. And

382
00:25:10,513 --> 00:25:14,655
they basically starve to death. It happens, I

383
00:25:14,695 --> 00:25:18,037
think, much more frequently than

384
00:25:18,257 --> 00:25:21,579
the turtles with the straw or fork in their nose.

385
00:25:24,681 --> 00:25:28,383
And whales are something that people tend to relate

386
00:25:28,503 --> 00:25:31,925
to. But that's

387
00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:35,467
with the big stuff. I

388
00:25:35,507 --> 00:25:38,996
have a new chapter in this book about

389
00:25:39,116 --> 00:25:42,839
microplastics, which were a very small

390
00:25:42,939 --> 00:25:46,901
part of the chapter about, I

391
00:25:46,941 --> 00:25:50,823
guess it was Marine Litter was called, the original book.

392
00:25:51,604 --> 00:25:55,126
Microplastics were just beginning to be studied.

393
00:25:56,166 --> 00:26:00,289
And now, there's an enormous literature.

394
00:26:00,589 --> 00:26:03,891
Every year, thousands of new papers are

395
00:26:03,951 --> 00:26:08,255
coming out about microplastics. which

396
00:26:08,455 --> 00:26:13,298
are tiny pieces coming from fragmentation

397
00:26:13,559 --> 00:26:16,841
of all sorts of things. I mean, people

398
00:26:16,901 --> 00:26:20,863
used to think it was, you know, just styrofoam boxes

399
00:26:20,943 --> 00:26:24,625
breaking up. That's a small part of it. A

400
00:26:24,685 --> 00:26:28,188
lot of places have now banned styrofoam. So,

401
00:26:28,248 --> 00:26:31,770
I mean, we've had progress in certain areas in certain

402
00:26:31,870 --> 00:26:35,292
places. But the

403
00:26:35,352 --> 00:26:38,968
microplastics There's four major

404
00:26:39,048 --> 00:26:42,451
sources of them. One

405
00:26:42,811 --> 00:26:46,093
is textiles is perhaps the

406
00:26:46,173 --> 00:26:50,496
most important. Synthetic

407
00:26:50,556 --> 00:26:55,340
clothing in the washing machine sheds

408
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,202
tiny fibers. If a

409
00:26:59,222 --> 00:27:03,294
whole lot of them collect, you might call it lint. Right. This

410
00:27:03,354 --> 00:27:06,536
happens every time it's washed, and it happens also when it

411
00:27:06,576 --> 00:27:11,279
dries in a dryer. So

412
00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:15,902
that's one of the major sources is

413
00:27:16,222 --> 00:27:20,285
our clothing. And carpets, too, also shed microfibers.

414
00:27:20,345 --> 00:27:24,188
These are long, thin, fibrous pieces

415
00:27:24,248 --> 00:27:27,555
of plastic. Another source

416
00:27:27,595 --> 00:27:31,676
is tires. Tires. Tire wear. You

417
00:27:31,716 --> 00:27:34,977
know, after driving on a tire for

418
00:27:35,377 --> 00:27:38,837
some years, the tread is not as thick as it used to

419
00:27:38,857 --> 00:27:43,038
be, right? And eventually the tread is worn down. That

420
00:27:44,038 --> 00:27:47,919
didn't evaporate into thin air. It shed tiny particles

421
00:27:48,579 --> 00:27:51,960
onto the road as you're driving the car. And

422
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,683
these tiny particles When

423
00:27:55,743 --> 00:27:59,806
it rains, it runs off into the water, down

424
00:27:59,886 --> 00:28:03,369
storm drains, and gets into the water.

425
00:28:06,051 --> 00:28:10,054
And the tires have,

426
00:28:11,255 --> 00:28:14,898
I should say, back to the fibers from the clothes. It's

427
00:28:14,998 --> 00:28:18,320
not just an issue of a tiny piece

428
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:22,063
of plastic. A tiny piece of plastic contain chemicals,

429
00:28:22,624 --> 00:28:26,186
toxic chemicals. that are built into

430
00:28:26,246 --> 00:28:29,608
them to make the plastic have certain

431
00:28:29,648 --> 00:28:32,890
characteristics to make them harder or

432
00:28:32,990 --> 00:28:37,554
make them more malleable or whatever, however the product

433
00:28:37,954 --> 00:28:41,816
is supposed to be. So a lot of these chemicals

434
00:28:42,317 --> 00:28:46,159
are highly toxic. So when

435
00:28:46,199 --> 00:28:49,882
an animal eats microplastics, it's

436
00:28:49,942 --> 00:28:53,164
not just getting little bits of plastic that

437
00:28:53,204 --> 00:28:56,442
it might poop out later. It may or may

438
00:28:56,502 --> 00:28:59,804
not. That's an issue of how well

439
00:28:59,864 --> 00:29:03,406
it passes through the digestive system. But it's also that

440
00:29:03,446 --> 00:29:06,707
the plastic has chemicals that can

441
00:29:07,368 --> 00:29:11,129
come off it and be toxic in various ways.

442
00:29:12,850 --> 00:29:17,692
So anyway, I'm digressing. So we've got the fibers and

443
00:29:17,732 --> 00:29:22,435
the tire wear particles. Another

444
00:29:22,975 --> 00:29:26,348
source of microplastics are

445
00:29:26,808 --> 00:29:30,451
pre-manufactured pellets. We call them pellets or

446
00:29:30,471 --> 00:29:34,193
nurdles is what they're called. This

447
00:29:34,313 --> 00:29:37,575
is the way plastic is manufactured in the first place.

448
00:29:37,955 --> 00:29:43,718
These tiny things about the size of a lentil. And

449
00:29:44,339 --> 00:29:48,021
there have been shipping where

450
00:29:48,041 --> 00:29:51,263
they spill millions of them. If there's a

451
00:29:51,363 --> 00:29:55,005
ship spill, a few years ago there was a spill

452
00:29:55,938 --> 00:29:59,379
of these things from a ship that ran aground or

453
00:29:59,439 --> 00:30:02,980
something near Sri Lanka. And the beaches

454
00:30:03,220 --> 00:30:06,881
on Sri Lanka were about six feet

455
00:30:06,981 --> 00:30:10,562
deep in these pellets,

456
00:30:10,682 --> 00:30:14,022
these nurdles. It's just

457
00:30:14,082 --> 00:30:18,723
hard to even imagine this. And

458
00:30:18,763 --> 00:30:24,505
then the fourth major contributor

459
00:30:24,545 --> 00:30:28,237
is paints. paint is now plastic. Latex

460
00:30:28,317 --> 00:30:31,720
paint. We don't use oil paint anymore. We use

461
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,843
latex paint. What's latex? It's plastic. And,

462
00:30:36,384 --> 00:30:39,546
you know, a boat gets scraped off or, you

463
00:30:39,606 --> 00:30:43,569
know, even flaking off from building structures

464
00:30:43,629 --> 00:30:46,932
or anything near the water, you get tiny paint

465
00:30:46,992 --> 00:30:50,355
particles as another major contributor. But

466
00:30:50,435 --> 00:30:55,099
I would say the textiles The

467
00:30:55,139 --> 00:30:58,642
nurdles and the tire wear particles are the

468
00:31:00,343 --> 00:31:05,026
So, you know, these are all these types

469
00:31:05,146 --> 00:31:08,589
of products, right? And consequences of such products. They're

470
00:31:08,609 --> 00:31:12,071
in our everyday lives, right? You've got clothes, you've got tires.

471
00:31:12,131 --> 00:31:15,694
I mean, we're seeing them all over the place. When people

472
00:31:15,894 --> 00:31:19,114
want to do something about you know, marine pollution like

473
00:31:19,154 --> 00:31:22,336
this. They want to reduce or things like that. How do they get

474
00:31:22,396 --> 00:31:25,718
away from all this kind of stuff? How do they, like, it's not as if

475
00:31:26,379 --> 00:31:29,701
there are a lot of alternatives. There are more probably now than there were 10 years

476
00:31:29,761 --> 00:31:33,224
ago, but some of it's really, really expensive and it's not necessarily everything's

477
00:31:33,264 --> 00:31:36,546
expensive now. So that makes it really more expensive. How do

478
00:31:36,606 --> 00:31:39,808
you suggest that people help in terms of

479
00:31:39,928 --> 00:31:43,491
reducing the amount of materials that are in there and

480
00:31:43,511 --> 00:31:47,192
these types of chemicals and these types of products How

481
00:31:47,232 --> 00:31:50,535
do we get rid of, how do we reduce our, not only our single footprint, but

482
00:31:51,856 --> 00:31:55,839
Well, in terms of the textiles, there

483
00:31:55,959 --> 00:31:59,242
are things that individual people can do.

484
00:32:00,403 --> 00:32:04,246
I mean, you can buy more clothing

485
00:32:04,426 --> 00:32:11,091
that are not synthetic, that's wool or cotton. Not

486
00:32:11,131 --> 00:32:14,694
to say that those have no problems, but those have less problems.

487
00:32:17,024 --> 00:32:21,127
in terms of some people buy clothing,

488
00:32:21,227 --> 00:32:26,170
wear it a few times and then throw it out fast fashion. This

489
00:32:26,551 --> 00:32:30,593
is really terrible because that ends up in a landfill somewhere

490
00:32:30,753 --> 00:32:34,036
and just releasing microfibers. So

491
00:32:34,456 --> 00:32:37,938
buy clothes and wear and keep them for a while. I have some clothes I've

492
00:32:37,978 --> 00:32:42,461
had for decades. When

493
00:32:42,542 --> 00:32:46,643
you wash the clothes, There

494
00:32:46,723 --> 00:32:49,825
are things you can do to reduce the

495
00:32:49,906 --> 00:32:53,348
amount of shedding. Using

496
00:32:53,488 --> 00:32:56,890
full loads rather than washing a few things

497
00:32:57,010 --> 00:33:00,473
at a time. That helps. Using

498
00:33:00,813 --> 00:33:04,716
a front-loading machine rather than a top-loading machine

499
00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:09,539
helps. Not

500
00:33:09,779 --> 00:33:15,525
using fabric softener helps. not

501
00:33:15,625 --> 00:33:20,869
doing a pre-wash cycle helps. So

502
00:33:21,089 --> 00:33:25,031
all these personal decisions and choices, and

503
00:33:25,071 --> 00:33:28,653
then after they're all washed, if you have a possibility of

504
00:33:28,733 --> 00:33:32,175
hanging them out on a line to dry, rather than putting

505
00:33:32,215 --> 00:33:36,358
them in a mechanical dryer where

506
00:33:36,378 --> 00:33:41,201
they're going to just spew the fibers out into the air, hang

507
00:33:41,241 --> 00:33:47,325
them on a line instead, if you can. There

508
00:33:47,465 --> 00:33:50,786
are also things you can

509
00:33:50,946 --> 00:33:56,507
do to capture

510
00:33:56,707 --> 00:34:00,288
the fibers once they've been released. There

511
00:34:00,488 --> 00:34:03,729
are filters on the market that you can

512
00:34:03,789 --> 00:34:07,751
buy to attach to your washing machine that

513
00:34:07,871 --> 00:34:11,152
capture a pretty

514
00:34:11,192 --> 00:34:14,672
good lot of them. And

515
00:34:16,353 --> 00:34:20,314
those are available to purchase for about

516
00:34:22,994 --> 00:34:27,396
$150. So the filter will help. This will all contribute

517
00:34:27,436 --> 00:34:30,656
to having fewer microfibers from

518
00:34:30,716 --> 00:34:34,377
clothing coming into the water bodies.

519
00:34:35,278 --> 00:34:38,659
So people can do stuff with regard

520
00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:42,010
to that. Also, The

521
00:34:42,070 --> 00:34:46,294
textile industry is aware of

522
00:34:46,334 --> 00:34:50,277
the problem. And researchers

523
00:34:50,437 --> 00:34:53,640
are trying to develop, I mean, this is

524
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,342
bringing back to the source rather than intercepting them

525
00:34:57,483 --> 00:35:01,326
on the way to the water. If we can get fabrics

526
00:35:01,386 --> 00:35:04,849
that shed much less, or ideally don't

527
00:35:04,949 --> 00:35:08,371
shed at all, that will be a

528
00:35:08,451 --> 00:35:11,560
solution to the problem. depends on the

529
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,402
textile people, not the marine biologists. We

530
00:35:15,462 --> 00:35:22,866
find the problems. They

531
00:35:23,006 --> 00:35:26,528
know that loose weaves, like

532
00:35:26,668 --> 00:35:30,070
fleeces, shed a lot more, and

533
00:35:30,090 --> 00:35:34,632
that tighter weaves shed much less. They

534
00:35:34,812 --> 00:35:38,154
also know that if the fibers used are

535
00:35:38,254 --> 00:35:42,673
long rather than very short, that

536
00:35:42,773 --> 00:35:48,376
helps it all stay together instead of shedding. So,

537
00:35:49,637 --> 00:35:53,579
you know, it's up to the textile scientists

538
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,921
and the textile industry and they are working on

539
00:35:57,541 --> 00:36:01,703
it. When

540
00:36:01,743 --> 00:36:05,245
it comes to the tires, I

541
00:36:05,305 --> 00:36:09,668
have not heard anything about the tire companies being

542
00:36:09,728 --> 00:36:13,361
concerned and trying to do something about

543
00:36:13,401 --> 00:36:16,742
it. They may be, but

544
00:36:18,762 --> 00:36:22,443
So you haven't heard of different materials being used in tires to...

545
00:36:24,183 --> 00:36:28,264
That may be just that I'm not tuned into the right sources.

546
00:36:28,904 --> 00:36:32,865
But I know I'm getting

547
00:36:32,965 --> 00:36:36,866
stuff about the textile industry. I'm not learning

548
00:36:36,926 --> 00:36:41,687
about the tire industry. The

549
00:36:41,767 --> 00:36:45,428
tires are particularly worrisome because

550
00:36:46,088 --> 00:36:49,929
there is a chemical in the tires called

551
00:36:51,489 --> 00:36:55,710
6PPD-Q. The

552
00:36:55,770 --> 00:36:59,431
Q is quinone. I forget what the PPD is.

553
00:37:01,232 --> 00:37:05,333
But it's a chemical that is exceptionally

554
00:37:13,113 --> 00:37:17,195
Particularly to salmon. And this chemical, when

555
00:37:17,215 --> 00:37:20,877
you've got the tire wear particles around, huge

556
00:37:20,977 --> 00:37:24,299
numbers of salmon migrating up

557
00:37:24,419 --> 00:37:27,901
to spawn are killed by the chemical.

558
00:37:27,941 --> 00:37:31,443
By very low concentrations of this chemical is

559
00:37:34,385 --> 00:37:38,454
And perhaps other salmon species. Yeah. You

560
00:37:38,494 --> 00:37:41,956
know, this is something you know that

561
00:37:42,076 --> 00:37:45,377
the Tire people should

562
00:37:45,457 --> 00:37:48,718
try to find a replacement for right are

563
00:37:51,319 --> 00:37:54,861
Yeah Yeah, the information is not necessarily readily available to you as

564
00:37:54,981 --> 00:37:58,062
is the textile industry Giving a seminar in late

565
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,782
going up to Cornell to my alma

566
00:38:08,842 --> 00:38:11,984
mater. So I'm really delighted to go there. And

567
00:38:12,044 --> 00:38:15,846
I'm not giving this seminar in the biology department

568
00:38:15,886 --> 00:38:19,668
or the environmental department. I'm giving this seminar to the textile

569
00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:26,792
I like that. And they will let

570
00:38:26,953 --> 00:38:30,335
the biology and environmental science and so

571
00:38:30,375 --> 00:38:33,476
forth, the other departments, the departments that I

572
00:38:33,496 --> 00:38:37,322
would relate to more, inviting people to come, but

573
00:38:37,422 --> 00:38:42,405
I'm talking to the textile people. And, you

574
00:38:42,445 --> 00:38:46,368
know, I have the next to last slide. It

575
00:38:46,488 --> 00:38:49,690
says, you know, what you can do in the general public. And

576
00:38:49,730 --> 00:38:52,971
I talk about the washing machine and how to

577
00:38:53,011 --> 00:38:56,834
do it and the front loading and not so much fabric softener and

578
00:38:56,894 --> 00:39:00,035
blah, blah, blah. That's the next to last slide. And then the

579
00:39:00,116 --> 00:39:04,298
last slide is what you can do as a textile scientist.

580
00:39:06,077 --> 00:39:10,279
One thing, find ways to have fabrics

581
00:39:14,820 --> 00:39:18,601
You're seeing it. I do agree there's a lot more information

582
00:39:18,621 --> 00:39:22,182
on the textile industry and I've seen more people

583
00:39:22,202 --> 00:39:25,543
start to experiment and there is at least one company

584
00:39:25,603 --> 00:39:29,224
I know that's looking at making fabrics and

585
00:39:29,865 --> 00:39:34,528
textiles out of kelp. and other marine algal

586
00:39:37,170 --> 00:39:40,772
It's all good stuff. It's been a very long time.

587
00:39:41,512 --> 00:39:44,774
Very long time. Now this company that I've been watching is

588
00:39:45,174 --> 00:39:48,375
a little faster and starting to release some items and being

589
00:39:48,395 --> 00:39:52,437
in the fashion shows and stuff. I don't know if they're going to be high

590
00:39:52,477 --> 00:39:57,070
fashion or if they're going to be like fashion for I

591
00:39:57,110 --> 00:40:00,432
guess what like the regular purchased items you know t-shirts and

592
00:40:00,492 --> 00:40:04,015
shirts and all that kind of clothes and stuff like that that everybody

593
00:40:04,295 --> 00:40:07,597
kind of does not just not just some of the extravagant sort

594
00:40:10,379 --> 00:40:14,142
Yeah yeah exactly. But like, obviously,

595
00:40:14,402 --> 00:40:18,307
marine pollution or plastic pollution is a big deal. You

596
00:40:18,347 --> 00:40:21,470
know, we know that we can, we know one way of reducing it, which

597
00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:24,874
is great that you've gone over. We know policy is another thing

598
00:40:24,914 --> 00:40:28,938
that we could do with support organizations that are following. you

599
00:40:28,958 --> 00:40:32,260
know, looking at marine plastics and trying to work on the policy side

600
00:40:32,540 --> 00:40:36,943
with governments to get these things going, as well as supporting individual

601
00:40:37,003 --> 00:40:40,404
scientists or other, you know, organizations and academics who

602
00:40:40,505 --> 00:40:43,866
are, you know, taking part in the treaty and, you know, trying

603
00:40:43,906 --> 00:40:47,788
to help and get people to understand the ramifications

604
00:40:47,828 --> 00:40:51,310
if we do let plastics continue to go in. And that's

605
00:40:52,811 --> 00:40:56,139
Yes. efforts in

606
00:40:56,539 --> 00:41:00,683
state legislatures about

607
00:41:01,163 --> 00:41:04,687
filters. And there was a bill in

608
00:41:04,767 --> 00:41:08,390
California last year and in Oregon last

609
00:41:08,490 --> 00:41:11,893
year that didn't make it all the way through. But

610
00:41:11,933 --> 00:41:16,057
there were bills that had quite a fair amount of support to

611
00:41:16,157 --> 00:41:19,580
require that new washing machines to

612
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,082
be sold in their state had to be equipped with

613
00:41:26,644 --> 00:41:31,325
I understand that France has passed a law requiring

614
00:41:31,425 --> 00:41:35,147
that in some future year,

615
00:41:35,227 --> 00:41:38,728
I don't know, in the late 2020s sometime. That's

616
00:41:42,009 --> 00:41:45,831
And there's other bills about plastic. There's

617
00:41:45,871 --> 00:41:49,232
a Break Free from Plastic Pollution Act.

618
00:41:50,090 --> 00:41:55,451
that's been in the US Congress. It

619
00:41:55,511 --> 00:41:59,853
has some support, but it hasn't got enough to

620
00:41:59,913 --> 00:42:03,834
pass. But there's

621
00:42:03,934 --> 00:42:07,255
also, just last week, one

622
00:42:07,375 --> 00:42:11,776
senator put into a bill

623
00:42:12,496 --> 00:42:16,457
for a national requirement of

624
00:42:17,217 --> 00:42:21,376
filters on washing machines. I

625
00:42:21,416 --> 00:42:24,797
don't know that these bills are gonna go very far. I

626
00:42:24,837 --> 00:42:28,618
don't think there's that much support yet. And

627
00:42:28,678 --> 00:42:33,939
we've had stuff in New York State, various

628
00:42:34,019 --> 00:42:37,440
things that have, not

629
00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:43,982
on microplastics and filters, but on reducing

630
00:42:51,965 --> 00:42:57,089
That came pretty close to passing last year. But

631
00:42:57,149 --> 00:43:00,812
then there's also an issue where sometimes

632
00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:05,215
when a bill passes, the

633
00:43:05,295 --> 00:43:09,393
governor may not want to sign it. And

634
00:43:10,053 --> 00:43:13,414
that's another issue. And sometimes when it's

635
00:43:13,554 --> 00:43:16,795
passed and the governor signs it, it

636
00:43:16,815 --> 00:43:19,996
doesn't get enforced very well. If the

637
00:43:20,036 --> 00:43:23,437
Department of Environmental Conservation, who's

638
00:43:23,477 --> 00:43:27,098
supposed to enforce the law, doesn't do their

639
00:43:27,138 --> 00:43:31,019
job very well. I mean, I'm thinking of the plastic bag

640
00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:34,240
law in New York State. Four years ago, New

641
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:38,458
York State passed a law prohibiting

642
00:43:38,818 --> 00:43:42,120
supermarkets and so forth to give out plastic bags.

643
00:43:42,540 --> 00:43:46,741
Well, there are huge neighborhoods where hundreds

644
00:43:46,822 --> 00:43:49,923
of stores are still giving out plastic bags in

645
00:43:52,173 --> 00:43:55,434
That's interesting. Yeah, they're not enforcing it by any means, right?

646
00:43:55,794 --> 00:43:58,975
I mean, there's a lot to go. It's a lot to get a

647
00:43:59,015 --> 00:44:02,116
bill passed, to get a bill drawn up and passed. And then

648
00:44:02,156 --> 00:44:05,556
there's enforcement as well. And we all know, through our experience in

649
00:44:05,576 --> 00:44:08,937
the environment, enforcement is a huge, huge

650
00:44:09,017 --> 00:44:12,778
issue, or lack thereof is a huge, huge issue. And

651
00:44:13,439 --> 00:44:16,659
just getting politicians to start considering and

652
00:44:16,699 --> 00:44:20,180
start getting educated on the subject matter then passing or

653
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,621
supporting a bill to pass it, then the enforcement has to happen,

654
00:44:23,641 --> 00:44:27,702
then the people have to kind of follow it as well. It's an

655
00:44:27,802 --> 00:44:31,222
uphill battle. We know that

656
00:44:31,282 --> 00:44:35,243
for a fact. But I feel as though we're starting to get progress, especially

657
00:44:35,283 --> 00:44:38,544
in the plastics sort of case, where we're

658
00:44:38,584 --> 00:44:41,685
starting to see more and more people supporting bills like this, more and

659
00:44:41,705 --> 00:44:44,966
more people supporting laws like this. It's not as

660
00:44:45,106 --> 00:44:48,427
convenient for everybody, but I think we need to be a little inconvenienced. It's

661
00:44:48,467 --> 00:44:51,988
not all about convenience in our lives. It's about looking after, you

662
00:44:52,008 --> 00:44:55,490
know, the ocean and looking after our planet. But I think that's really interesting. Just

663
00:44:55,510 --> 00:44:59,031
to move quickly, you know, because all this stuff is covered In

664
00:44:59,071 --> 00:45:02,355
the book, you know, you got, you know, plastic pollution, marine debris, marine

665
00:45:02,395 --> 00:45:06,338
litter, you know, but there's something that's been really, especially

666
00:45:06,398 --> 00:45:09,762
this past summer or spring, that really kind

667
00:45:09,822 --> 00:45:13,185
of hit Florida a little hard. We saw about 80 different fish

668
00:45:13,225 --> 00:45:16,828
species get hit with some sort of bad water

669
00:45:16,888 --> 00:45:20,110
quality. Yeah, where they would turn around, especially sawfish, where they

670
00:45:20,130 --> 00:45:23,432
would turn around and swirl around in circles, and they would die.

671
00:45:23,452 --> 00:45:27,094
I just did an article, actually, on this where it

672
00:45:27,795 --> 00:45:32,237
was multiple toxins from a dinoflagellate genus

673
00:45:33,418 --> 00:45:36,840
that could expel multiple toxins. Unfortunately, the

674
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,183
sawfish got it probably the worst, because they got it in their gills and their liver.

675
00:45:41,103 --> 00:45:44,586
We're seeing things like red tide, we're seeing things like

676
00:45:44,766 --> 00:45:47,948
these multiple toxins get released at some point, and they

677
00:45:47,988 --> 00:45:51,691
still don't know the mechanism of why. They're usually on the bottom

678
00:45:51,851 --> 00:45:55,214
or on some sea plants of some sort or algae,

679
00:45:55,674 --> 00:45:58,997
but all of a sudden they got into 80 different species of fish,

680
00:45:59,037 --> 00:46:02,279
they don't know why, they don't know if it was concentrated somewhere. Is this

681
00:46:02,439 --> 00:46:05,482
also something that you cover in terms of like, is this a

682
00:46:08,664 --> 00:46:11,726
Oh, yeah. I

683
00:46:11,746 --> 00:46:14,929
guess the first chapter of the book is

684
00:46:16,010 --> 00:46:19,492
about nutrient pollution, which

685
00:46:19,592 --> 00:46:24,015
is responsible for algal blooms, including

686
00:46:24,115 --> 00:46:27,438
harmful algal blooms, which are the ones

687
00:46:27,498 --> 00:46:31,841
that are putting out toxic stuff.

688
00:46:32,061 --> 00:46:35,417
So yeah. Yeah, that's

689
00:46:35,477 --> 00:46:39,219
in the eutrophication. And the eutrophication is

690
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:43,341
one thing that seems to be getting worse. It

691
00:46:43,401 --> 00:46:46,602
happens more. I mean,

692
00:46:46,642 --> 00:46:50,924
we have got some control in

693
00:46:51,344 --> 00:46:55,626
areas where there are sewage treatment plants of

694
00:46:55,726 --> 00:46:59,268
this. But there are so many people

695
00:46:59,328 --> 00:47:02,875
with big lawns and putting fertilizer, I

696
00:47:02,895 --> 00:47:06,218
mean agricultural pollution from fertilizer, but

697
00:47:06,438 --> 00:47:10,321
also the rich communities with the gigantic

698
00:47:10,421 --> 00:47:14,505
lawns going down to a lake, right?

699
00:47:14,625 --> 00:47:17,788
Or going down to an estuary. And then it

700
00:47:17,868 --> 00:47:22,432
rains and all of that is ending up in the estuary. And

701
00:47:22,792 --> 00:47:25,995
you'll get an algal bloom which may or may not have

702
00:47:30,052 --> 00:47:34,575
So this is a problem that seems to be getting worse, while

703
00:47:34,675 --> 00:47:37,958
some problems, and plastic is also getting worse,

704
00:47:38,418 --> 00:47:42,521
and some problems seem to be getting better. You

705
00:47:42,581 --> 00:47:46,003
know, we don't see, we haven't seen a big oil spill

706
00:47:46,623 --> 00:47:50,426
in a long time. We have, you know, less

707
00:47:50,486 --> 00:47:54,689
problem with oil spills. Some of the other contaminants are

708
00:47:55,263 --> 00:47:58,526
improving like less

709
00:47:58,586 --> 00:48:01,949
PCBs or mercury because they're not

710
00:48:02,010 --> 00:48:05,693
being released anymore and they're in the sediments and

711
00:48:05,753 --> 00:48:09,076
the highly polluted sediments are getting covered over by

712
00:48:09,176 --> 00:48:12,720
cleaner sediments. So they're getting down further

713
00:48:12,780 --> 00:48:16,503
and further and not going to be making trouble. So

714
00:48:18,650 --> 00:48:21,812
Well, even New York City Harbor has improved in water quality with all

715
00:48:21,892 --> 00:48:25,155
those factories that haven't been able to, you know, they kind

716
00:48:25,195 --> 00:48:28,597
of literally cleaned up their act in terms of allowing those chemicals

717
00:48:28,637 --> 00:48:31,840
to go. And we've seen the Medhaden come back, we've

718
00:48:34,402 --> 00:48:37,784
And the Medhaden are back, the whales come back. And there's nothing

719
00:48:37,824 --> 00:48:41,207
so exciting as going on a whale watching trip

720
00:48:41,647 --> 00:48:45,661
from Brooklyn, New York. Yeah, I'm seeing Wales with

721
00:48:45,681 --> 00:48:48,882
the city skyline in the back. Yeah, so for

722
00:48:48,962 --> 00:48:53,044
the I had a couple years ago Nominated the

723
00:48:53,204 --> 00:48:56,325
New York, New Jersey Harbor estuary to become a

724
00:48:56,385 --> 00:49:00,146
hope spot. This is all right Sylvia Earle's yeah

725
00:49:00,307 --> 00:49:04,268
organization mission blue Has

726
00:49:05,228 --> 00:49:08,630
designate certain areas as hope spots so now

727
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:12,412
I'm Our estuary, the

728
00:49:12,472 --> 00:49:15,793
New York, New Jersey Harbor estuary, is one of the hope

729
00:49:15,813 --> 00:49:19,415
spots because of how much better it's gotten. It's

730
00:49:19,455 --> 00:49:22,757
certainly not pristine. It's still polluted. For sure, but there's been improvement. But

731
00:49:22,777 --> 00:49:26,278
in the past 50 years, since the Clean Water Act, it has gotten so

732
00:49:26,318 --> 00:49:29,480
much better. And I'm the one

733
00:49:32,272 --> 00:49:35,914
Well, congratulations, that's awesome. Because that does like, that

734
00:49:35,994 --> 00:49:39,395
brings a lot of attention towards New York City Harbor,

735
00:49:39,475 --> 00:49:43,037
right? It brings a lot of attention towards the hope and the optimism that

736
00:49:43,077 --> 00:49:46,318
if we actually do things right, we actually obey the

737
00:49:46,358 --> 00:49:49,560
law, we put the laws in, we obey them, we enforce them, we

738
00:49:49,580 --> 00:49:52,741
can get our environment back, we can get our oceans back, we

739
00:49:52,761 --> 00:49:56,403
can get our lakes and our rivers back. And I think that's really important. And

740
00:49:56,423 --> 00:49:59,724
it really does start with things like the Clean Water Act and the Clean

741
00:49:59,844 --> 00:50:03,205
Air Act. And we start to see these bills i got you know we've

742
00:50:03,726 --> 00:50:06,947
one of the biggest in the in the u s some of the biggest uh... acts like the

743
00:50:06,987 --> 00:50:10,368
mason stevenson's act the marine mammal protection act in the seventies have

744
00:50:10,488 --> 00:50:14,329
really allowed species that were once considered almost

745
00:50:14,409 --> 00:50:18,050
extinct or critical to really come back great white sharks this

746
00:50:18,170 --> 00:50:21,511
uh... pacific sea lions and so forth have kind and even like i

747
00:50:21,551 --> 00:50:25,092
think some of those the smaller fish uh... like the uh... uh...

748
00:50:25,630 --> 00:50:28,973
it's escaping me right now uh... sardines and

749
00:50:28,993 --> 00:50:32,197
things like that have started to come back of the you know more and more because of those

750
00:50:32,277 --> 00:50:35,460
protections and you know and and i don't want to put you on the

751
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,643
spot i don't want you to say if you don't if you're not comfortable who you're

752
00:50:38,663 --> 00:50:42,006
going to support but there's a really important election coming up not

753
00:50:42,046 --> 00:50:45,949
only in the u s and it looks like it Yeah, I

754
00:50:45,989 --> 00:50:49,269
think so. Yes, I think so. But I think this is really important because look,

755
00:50:49,289 --> 00:50:52,770
in Canada, we thought we weren't going to have one until 2025. It

756
00:50:52,810 --> 00:50:56,231
looks like that might be happening a little earlier federal election. And

757
00:50:56,271 --> 00:51:00,293
so in both Canada and the US, where there's

758
00:51:00,893 --> 00:51:03,954
a lot at stake in terms of the environment, because it

759
00:51:04,034 --> 00:51:07,871
seems like One party is

760
00:51:08,131 --> 00:51:11,452
for protecting the environment, and you can almost criticize not enough, but they actually

761
00:51:11,493 --> 00:51:16,095
have policies to protect the environment and keep certain legislations

762
00:51:16,275 --> 00:51:19,696
and laws in place. And then you have other parties, or

763
00:51:19,736 --> 00:51:22,857
another party that is not talking about protecting and

764
00:51:22,917 --> 00:51:26,519
even talking about regressing some of those laws, which happened

765
00:51:26,939 --> 00:51:30,061
in the US, happened between 2016 and 2020 when President Trump was in

766
00:51:33,542 --> 00:51:37,743
And this candidate thinks climate change is

767
00:51:38,644 --> 00:51:42,225
Right, right. He's almost like 40 years behind sort

768
00:51:42,265 --> 00:51:45,586
of what people are kind of going. So I guess the question for

769
00:51:45,666 --> 00:51:48,847
me is, for this audience and for people who

770
00:51:48,887 --> 00:51:52,068
you talk to who you want the audience to read

771
00:51:52,108 --> 00:51:55,609
your book, what would you recommend

772
00:51:55,649 --> 00:51:59,010
they do in terms of finding out what each party

773
00:52:02,407 --> 00:52:06,110
They have to do their homework and

774
00:52:06,350 --> 00:52:09,572
pay attention. I mean, you

775
00:52:09,592 --> 00:52:12,714
can't just go out and vote and

776
00:52:13,515 --> 00:52:17,277
pick a candidate, get informed, who's supporting

777
00:52:17,337 --> 00:52:20,640
what. And I would expect most of

778
00:52:28,051 --> 00:52:32,095
Yeah. They're clearly informed if they're listening

779
00:52:35,153 --> 00:52:38,395
Yeah, I guess it's frustrating to me. And

780
00:52:38,415 --> 00:52:41,877
I guess you've seen this a number of times, too, where in

781
00:52:41,918 --> 00:52:45,120
election cycles, the environment takes a backseat, and it's always the

782
00:52:45,180 --> 00:52:49,222
economy over the environment. But at what point, Judith,

783
00:52:49,262 --> 00:52:52,805
do we realize or do like sort of the general

784
00:52:52,905 --> 00:52:56,287
public realizes that a lot of the times the economy is still tied

785
00:52:56,327 --> 00:52:59,989
to the environment. So if the environment goes to crap, our

786
00:53:00,069 --> 00:53:03,930
economy's gonna go to crap. And case in point, a lot of the consequences from

787
00:53:04,730 --> 00:53:08,571
climate change, increased storm surges, increased hurricane,

788
00:53:09,171 --> 00:53:13,152
typhoons, tornadoes, droughts, wildfires.

789
00:53:13,552 --> 00:53:16,893
At what point do we put a price on

790
00:53:17,173 --> 00:53:20,454
the cleanup and tie it to how it's affecting the

791
00:53:21,334 --> 00:53:24,655
All those bad things are happening mostly to

792
00:53:30,333 --> 00:53:33,456
Yeah, it's true. Many of

793
00:53:33,536 --> 00:53:37,980
those people are powerless. You

794
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:42,563
know, you've got to look who's getting affected and

795
00:53:42,964 --> 00:53:46,527
who is making more money by not having

796
00:53:48,620 --> 00:53:53,143
Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if anybody has ever calculated

797
00:53:53,243 --> 00:53:56,805
the total amount paid out from FEMA or

798
00:53:56,865 --> 00:54:00,128
from any, you know, government organization on the cleanups of

799
00:54:00,188 --> 00:54:03,510
all these things and sort of the bailing out of people

800
00:54:03,550 --> 00:54:06,692
on all these things and tied that to the debt or to who's

801
00:54:07,092 --> 00:54:10,995
paying for that or how that's going to affect the future. It should be done. It should

802
00:54:14,807 --> 00:54:18,189
Yeah, I think I'm going to have to do an episode on that next, because I think that's the

803
00:54:18,229 --> 00:54:21,651
next question. And a question for you. For me,

804
00:54:21,831 --> 00:54:25,474
as someone who has the ability to get messages out

805
00:54:25,674 --> 00:54:28,956
through this podcast and other means, what

806
00:54:28,996 --> 00:54:32,298
do you think I should focus on from an environmental standpoint to help

807
00:54:32,398 --> 00:54:35,560
people inform themselves in

808
00:54:35,620 --> 00:54:38,962
terms of what they're voting for in this election? I know we're coming

809
00:54:39,002 --> 00:54:42,224
down to the last couple of months, but is

810
00:54:42,244 --> 00:54:45,586
there something that I could could publish on,

811
00:54:50,389 --> 00:54:53,731
I think you should have other people to talk

812
00:54:58,114 --> 00:55:01,577
If each episode you do, I

813
00:55:05,620 --> 00:55:08,902
OK, so you've done a lot of this. Yeah. You

814
00:55:08,962 --> 00:55:12,664
can hammer it home with different people coming

815
00:55:13,990 --> 00:55:17,091
Right, right. Yeah, I think this is something that I might, I'm

816
00:55:17,131 --> 00:55:20,871
going to definitely consider seeing if I can line up some people who can help out and

817
00:55:21,212 --> 00:55:25,212
talk about some of these important issues and how it affects people that,

818
00:55:25,312 --> 00:55:28,713
you know, we may not hear in the debate or we may not, because I think climate

819
00:55:28,733 --> 00:55:32,394
change was only talked about just a little bit in the debate this

820
00:55:33,354 --> 00:55:36,615
It was at the last couple of minutes and nobody had time to

821
00:55:37,675 --> 00:55:40,716
Yeah, so hopefully, I don't know if there will be another debate, hopefully it

822
00:55:40,736 --> 00:55:44,097
gets covered there more, but we'll be covering it here. So if people want

823
00:55:44,117 --> 00:55:47,237
to listen, they could listen to that. So I think that's important. If

824
00:55:47,297 --> 00:55:50,638
people want to get access to your book, I'll put the links in

825
00:55:54,879 --> 00:55:58,660
I would encourage them to go to their local bookstore

826
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:02,801
and tell them to stock it. Nice. Go to their local library,

827
00:56:02,841 --> 00:56:06,142
just get them to stock it. They could also go to

828
00:56:06,182 --> 00:56:10,037
the Oxford University Press website

829
00:56:10,778 --> 00:56:14,400
and put in, you know, marine pollution, what everyone

830
00:56:14,460 --> 00:56:20,004
needs to know, second edition. Gotcha.

831
00:56:21,705 --> 00:56:25,008
And I'm not going to recommend, although some people will

832
00:56:28,783 --> 00:56:32,844
Okay, we'll put the Oxford link in and we'll

833
00:56:33,725 --> 00:56:36,886
have people buy it from there. And like you said, let's try

834
00:56:36,926 --> 00:56:40,427
and get people to ask for it in the library in their local bookstore.

835
00:56:40,447 --> 00:56:43,888
I think that's fantastic. Judith, this has been an absolute

836
00:56:44,308 --> 00:56:47,489
pleasure to have you on the podcast. I'm looking for, hopefully it won't be

837
00:56:51,660 --> 00:56:54,964
I'm happy to come on. I'm not doing any more books, but I'm

838
00:56:56,185 --> 00:56:59,849
We'll have you on because you have such a wealth of knowledge to share with us and

839
00:56:59,909 --> 00:57:03,132
we definitely appreciate your time to spend with us

840
00:57:03,373 --> 00:57:06,676
for this last hour. It's been absolutely wonderful. Thank

841
00:57:06,716 --> 00:57:09,880
you so much and we'll continue promoting this book because I think it's going to

842
00:57:14,465 --> 00:57:17,588
So wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Judith, for joining me here on the

843
00:57:17,628 --> 00:57:20,792
How to Protect the Ocean podcast. It was great to have you. I told you

844
00:57:20,872 --> 00:57:24,997
she comes in and talks facts and talks fun. It's

845
00:57:25,017 --> 00:57:28,300
just a fun way to listen to this type of thing. She's such a fun

846
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,504
person. I've got to meet her in person as we mentioned. in Borneo in

847
00:57:31,524 --> 00:57:34,766
Malaysia at the International Marine Conservation Congress a

848
00:57:34,806 --> 00:57:37,989
number of years ago we haven't seen each other since but it's

849
00:57:38,009 --> 00:57:41,452
been 10 years since she's been on the podcast and I'm so happy that

850
00:57:41,492 --> 00:57:45,596
she's back on however I want to have her on more often but

851
00:57:45,636 --> 00:57:48,778
it's it's really invigorating to talk to somebody who's done so much

852
00:57:48,878 --> 00:57:52,760
work in and around like the Northeast US and the US. She's

853
00:57:52,780 --> 00:57:56,182
done work in the Pacific. She's done work all over the place. Even

854
00:57:56,242 --> 00:58:00,243
in her retirement, she is working. And I think that is something that

855
00:58:00,263 --> 00:58:03,704
is really fun to see and really fun to watch. Just

856
00:58:04,045 --> 00:58:07,406
seeing someone who's so passionate and cares so, so much and does such great

857
00:58:07,446 --> 00:58:10,527
work. So really happy to have her on. And I

858
00:58:10,787 --> 00:58:13,848
will put the link to the Oxford bookstore so

859
00:58:13,988 --> 00:58:17,050
you can see it. And as she said, You know, as Judith mentioned, go to

860
00:58:17,070 --> 00:58:20,272
your library, go to your local bookstore, ask for marine pollution to be in

861
00:58:20,332 --> 00:58:23,654
those stores in that library so that other people can take it out, other people

862
00:58:23,674 --> 00:58:27,837
can read it. Not everybody can afford to buy books, totally understandable, but

863
00:58:27,857 --> 00:58:31,039
we highly recommend that you go to your library to see it. And if it's not there,

864
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,742
ask them for them to carry it so they might actually do it by a couple of copies.

865
00:58:35,082 --> 00:58:38,205
Okay, so thank you so much for joining me. That's it for today's episode. I'll

866
00:58:38,245 --> 00:58:41,348
put all the links to where Judith wants you to buy the books if you want to buy it.

867
00:58:42,169 --> 00:58:45,211
And I'll put all the links to get in touch with me as well. But I want to

868
00:58:45,231 --> 00:58:48,715
thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.

869
00:58:48,775 --> 00:58:52,378
I'm your host Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.