The Plastic Straw Ban Failed – Here’s What We Can Learn to Protect Our Oceans

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We're going back to plastic straws.

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I think it's OK.

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What happened to the

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ban on plastic straws?

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Remember when plastic straws became like

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the public enemy number one?

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It seemed like banning them

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would be such an easy thing.

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Plastic straws hurt turtles.

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Turtles are good.

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We want to keep turtles around.

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So let's ban plastic straws.

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But it became a lot

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more complicated than that.

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And on this episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast,

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we're going to be talking about what went

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wrong with the plastic ban

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and how can we do better in

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the future to protect the ocean.

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Let's start the show.

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Hey, everybody, welcome back to another

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exciting episode of the How

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to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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I'm your host, Andrew Lue, and this is

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the podcast where you find out what's

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happening with the ocean,

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how you can speak up for the ocean, what

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you can do to live for a

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better ocean by taking action.

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And on today's episode, we're going to be

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talking about the ban of

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the ban on plastic straws,

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which you saw in the video where

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President Donald Trump signed an

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executive order banning the ban on

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plastic straws that essentially

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overturn the former president Biden's

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executive action on let's ban plastic

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straws from any

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federal government facility.

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This is not a huge ban.

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This is one of the things where it's

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like, hey, you know what?

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It's just in government facilities, which

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obviously is still a lot of usage.

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But we're talking about the fight against

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plastic pollution and

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against plastic straws.

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We're not talking about a huge win for

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the plastic straw industry, but it's also

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not good for the

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banning of plastic straws.

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And really the discussion about the whole

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plastic straw and marine plastics debate

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and reducing plastic pollution so that it

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doesn't end up in the ocean.

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That's what it's all been about.

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But before we get into all that, I want

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to just take it back a little bit and I

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want to talk about how plastic straws

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became sort of the

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symbol of plastic straws.

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And I want to talk about how plastic
straws became sort of the symbol of

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plastic pollution and then also not the

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symbol of plastic pollution.

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Because if you ever realize when I saw

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the video of Donald Trump signing that

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executive order, I wasn't surprised.

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I have to admit, I

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wasn't surprised at all.

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This was something

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that we knew was incoming.

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He was going to do

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little actions like this.

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That's fine.

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But it was the response by a lot of the

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people that are out of the government and

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some of them are celebrities or

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personalities, influencers, content

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creators, whatever you have.

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People who have a platform

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really talking about, thank God.

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Like I think for a lot of people, even

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though this was just banning the ban on

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plastic pollution or plastic straws in

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government facilities, this was more of a

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symbol for a lot of people who are like,

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I just like plastic straws.

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I don't like paper straws.

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That was the big argument against use

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like having to ban plastic.

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Trust people didn't like the fact that

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when you banned it and the second is we

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are forced to use an alternative that

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people just didn't like.

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You've probably heard

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the argument before.

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Paper straws, although they're getting

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better in quality, they would

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fall apart in a liquid, right?

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That's paper falls apart in liquid and a

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lot of the early paper straws did that.

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Now, I don't find a big difference when I

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use a paper straw, but a lot of people do

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and a lot of people hate it.

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That's the argument that you see over and

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over, including the argument that Donald

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Trump used when he

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signed that executive order.

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But let's take it back to how this all

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started back a while ago, about a decade

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ago, there was a viral video that showed

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in all of Ridley turtle.

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Having the plastic

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straw taken out of its nose.

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It was stuck in his nose with the

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scientists that were out doing research.

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Dr. Nathan Robinson was a friend of the

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podcast as well as Christine Figoner,

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who's also a friend of the podcast, been

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on the podcast talking about this viral

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video a number of times on this podcast.

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And it was essentially they were out

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doing sea turtle research.

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They came across this sea turtle that

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looked like it was in trouble.

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They pulled it onto the boat.

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They were going to do a workup to make

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sure that one, it was OK.

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And with two, they could do their

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research and they noticed that there was

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something protruding from its nose.

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The video, as you probably already know,

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showed a grueling match of trying to pull

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that object out of the sea turtle.

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And when they pulled it out, they

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realized a plastic

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straw just sort of unfolded.

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This has never been seen before.

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Researchers and sea turtle biologists had

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never really thought of plastic straws

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being stuck in the nose.

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But it went viral and it really launched

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a campaign on plastic straws.

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People started their organizations on

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banning plastic straws.

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It was just about plastic straws.

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Company started selling

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alternatives to plastic straws.

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A lot of them were metal that you could

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reuse and it was a great option.

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You could buy for like a buck 50 or

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whatever that might be and you can read

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them over and over and over again.

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It took off in a little bit.

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Everybody was banning plastic straws.

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Cities were banning plastic

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straws in the US and Canada.

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Countries were banning plastic straws.

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This all happened in a

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very short period of time.

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There's some pushback as you might expect

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because there are some

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people who needed plastic straws.

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People with disabilities

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couldn't use paper straws.

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They had to use plastic straws and there

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were exceptions made for people with

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disabilities that had

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to use plastic straws.

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And here comes the

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problem after all of that.

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People were just tired of having to be

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told what they can and cannot have.

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People like plastic straws.

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They were used to plastic straws and to

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be honest, a lot of them just never

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thought of not using plastic straws.

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Let's be honest when you're sitting in a

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restaurant when you get served a drink,

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the plastic straw is in there, right?

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Or a straw is in

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there and it's automatic.

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At one point you had to ask not to have a

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straw and some people, some waiters would

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push back others wouldn't.

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They said, yeah, no problem.

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Whatever you'd like.

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It was really up to the consumer person

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in the restaurant to say, yeah, whether I

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want plastic straws or not.

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I remember a couple times I would forget

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to ask not to have plastic straws and

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then they would bring it.

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Now they put paper straws in it or

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they'll give you a straw that's in a

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wrapper and they'll put it beside you so

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you can use it if you want

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or you don't have to use it.

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No big deal, right?

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So the policy response was pretty good

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when you saw a lot of these plastic

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straws being banned, especially initially

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we saw Starbucks, McDonald's, a lot of

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places in like Seattle, San Francisco

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started to ban or phase out

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plastic straws in general.

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So governments passed the regulations to

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restrict the use and companies were

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following that, including some companies

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would come to alternatives

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to even using straws at all.

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Now, were they the best alternatives?

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I don't know.

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Starbucks said we're not going to have

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plastic straws anymore, but we are going

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to put a cap on it and it's going to be

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plastic, which was probably

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worse than the plastic straw.

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And I think this is where we started to

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see an unraveling of the campaign.

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There was so much

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focus on plastic straws.

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So many organizations were just focused

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on plastic straws, banning plastic

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straws, not using plastic straws that

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they really missed out on the bigger

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problem and using this as what I call a

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gateway plastic to our

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usage of plastic in general.

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This was an opportunity to make people

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more aware of how much single use

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plastic, which is what plastic straws

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are, are in our lives.

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And we just never took advantage as an

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ocean conservation community.

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There were some organizations that were

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kept professing like this is more than

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just about a plastic straw.

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Plastic straws only make up 0.03% of

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marine debris and marine

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plastics that are in the ocean.

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So it doesn't really make sense to just

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focus on a plastic straw.

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And a lot of people who are against the

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bans on plastic straws say, why do we

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care about plastic straws?

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We shouldn't have to worry about that.

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We shouldn't be

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talking about plastic straws.

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We should be talking about other things,

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plastic packaging,

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plastic fishing gear nets.

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These are the things that we should be

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talking about and not

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just plastic straws.

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Why are we focused so much on the

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individual who uses plastic straws and

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making them feel bad for using plastic

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straws when there's this whole other

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avenue to go ahead and

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say, hey, you know what?

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Yeah, we have a problem with plastic

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straws, but there's a bigger problem in

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single use plastics.

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And this is an opportunity to educate the

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people on what we can do

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and provide alternatives.

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Now, I wanted to really dive in to look

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at how we can actually do these campaigns

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better because here's the problem.

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The alternatives weren't great, right?

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Paper straws got soggy.

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Reusable straws required extra effort.

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Like you had to bring it around.

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Some people would bring around their

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01:07:59,541 --> 01:08:01,041
purse, but not many people or not many

279
01:08:01,041 --> 01:08:02,000
people would keep a

280
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:03,208
straw in their pockets.

281
01:08:03,208 --> 01:08:05,541
Some of these reusable mugs and like the

282
01:08:05,541 --> 01:08:07,666
Yetis and stuff like that or other like

283
01:08:07,666 --> 01:08:09,625
Stanley's and stuff, they actually have

284
01:08:09,625 --> 01:08:12,291
plastics or metal straws in their or

285
01:08:12,291 --> 01:08:14,708
reusable plastic in their cups already.

286
01:08:15,083 --> 01:08:16,666
So people could use that, but not

287
01:08:16,666 --> 01:08:18,250
everybody was going to just take a single

288
01:08:18,250 --> 01:08:20,250
or a package of plastic straws and bring

289
01:08:20,250 --> 01:08:21,625
it around whenever they need it.

290
01:08:21,625 --> 01:08:23,708
We don't need plastic straws that much

291
01:08:23,708 --> 01:08:26,041
unless you need it to drink if you have

292
01:08:26,041 --> 01:08:28,583
some sort of disability or you need it as

293
01:08:28,583 --> 01:08:29,958
an exception, right?

294
01:08:29,958 --> 01:08:31,333
There's always exceptions to the rule,

295
01:08:31,333 --> 01:08:32,791
but for the most of us, we just didn't

296
01:08:32,791 --> 01:08:34,291
need straws all the time.

297
01:08:34,291 --> 01:08:35,083
It was just something

298
01:08:35,083 --> 01:08:36,333
that was convenient.

299
01:08:36,333 --> 01:08:36,833
Let's be honest.

300
01:08:36,833 --> 01:08:37,916
You're in a restaurant or

301
01:08:37,916 --> 01:08:38,750
you're at a coffee shop.

302
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:39,875
You don't really need a

303
01:08:39,875 --> 01:08:41,666
straw to drink your drink.

304
01:08:41,666 --> 01:08:43,125
You can just drink it out of the cup.

305
01:08:43,125 --> 01:08:44,750
The straw has just become part of life.

306
01:08:44,791 --> 01:08:46,958
It's become part of our culture, right?

307
01:08:47,250 --> 01:08:48,541
Also another alternative like

308
01:08:48,541 --> 01:08:50,666
biodegradable plastic still didn't

309
01:08:50,666 --> 01:08:52,375
degrade properly in the ocean.

310
01:08:52,541 --> 01:08:53,375
And so they were still

311
01:08:53,375 --> 01:08:55,000
a problem in the ocean.

312
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,125
So in many of the places alternative

313
01:08:57,125 --> 01:08:58,916
materials were either expensive or

314
01:08:58,916 --> 01:09:00,666
unavailable and they were just

315
01:09:00,666 --> 01:09:02,291
inconvenient for a lot of people.

316
01:09:02,666 --> 01:09:05,458
So the band was partially effective but

317
01:09:05,458 --> 01:09:08,625
divisive and it limited the impact and it

318
01:09:08,625 --> 01:09:10,625
was used as a political tool, right?

319
01:09:10,625 --> 01:09:12,125
You saw Donald Trump and the Republicans

320
01:09:12,125 --> 01:09:12,833
on the campaign

321
01:09:12,833 --> 01:09:13,958
talking about plastic straws.

322
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:15,500
And every time you hear, oh, and the

323
01:09:15,500 --> 01:09:16,958
plastic straws everybody's like, oh my

324
01:09:16,958 --> 01:09:17,750
gosh, don't talk to me

325
01:09:17,750 --> 01:09:18,750
about the plastic straws.

326
01:09:18,916 --> 01:09:20,375
It was not fun, right?

327
01:09:20,791 --> 01:09:23,416
And so what I wanted to do is really look

328
01:09:23,416 --> 01:09:26,791
at how this campaign really lost it and

329
01:09:26,791 --> 01:09:28,500
how behavior change because that's what

330
01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:29,250
we're looking at here.

331
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:31,291
When we're talking about people changing

332
01:09:31,291 --> 01:09:33,583
their ways, it's a behavior change and

333
01:09:33,583 --> 01:09:35,416
that's difficult to do for us humans.

334
01:09:35,416 --> 01:09:37,000
We don't like to change our behavior.

335
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,333
Like think about going on a diet when I

336
01:09:39,333 --> 01:09:40,416
go on a diet or I start

337
01:09:40,416 --> 01:09:40,958
saying, you know what?

338
01:09:40,958 --> 01:09:41,916
I got to eat cleaner.

339
01:09:42,416 --> 01:09:44,166
It's really hard not to have a sweet that

340
01:09:44,166 --> 01:09:45,708
I really want because I'm like, I should

341
01:09:45,708 --> 01:09:46,375
be able to have a

342
01:09:46,375 --> 01:09:47,791
sweet and I should be fine.

343
01:09:48,208 --> 01:09:49,541
But then I just continue to have sweets

344
01:09:49,541 --> 01:09:50,875
and sweets and sweets and sweets and I

345
01:09:50,875 --> 01:09:51,916
can't get away from it.

346
01:09:51,916 --> 01:09:53,125
And then I end up gaining weight and I

347
01:09:53,125 --> 01:09:53,875
don't want to do that.

348
01:09:54,083 --> 01:09:56,666
So I have to change my behavior and that

349
01:09:56,666 --> 01:09:58,208
takes a while and that is hard.

350
01:09:58,583 --> 01:10:00,291
And that's one of the hardest parts about

351
01:10:00,291 --> 01:10:02,416
eating properly after you're not eating

352
01:10:02,416 --> 01:10:04,125
clean as one would say.

353
01:10:04,375 --> 01:10:05,458
So there's a lot of things that we need

354
01:10:05,458 --> 01:10:07,125
to know about behavior change.

355
01:10:07,416 --> 01:10:09,000
So here's some of the things that we can

356
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:10,583
talk about behavior changes. It's the

357
01:10:10,583 --> 01:10:12,708
actual psychological reactants.

358
01:10:12,708 --> 01:10:13,708
So like people resist

359
01:10:13,708 --> 01:10:14,833
being told what to do.

360
01:10:14,833 --> 01:10:16,333
So if you say, hey, we're going to ban

361
01:10:16,333 --> 01:10:17,208
plastic straws, be like,

362
01:10:17,208 --> 01:10:18,416
why? Like what's the point?

363
01:10:18,791 --> 01:10:20,625
It doesn't really do doesn't consist of

364
01:10:20,625 --> 01:10:21,625
all the marine plastics

365
01:10:21,625 --> 01:10:22,291
that are in the ocean.

366
01:10:22,291 --> 01:10:23,500
It's point zero three

367
01:10:23,500 --> 01:10:25,250
percent. Why is this a problem?

368
01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:27,208
Why is it me that's having one plastic

369
01:10:27,208 --> 01:10:30,583
straw and why am I being isolated and

370
01:10:30,583 --> 01:10:32,208
told I'm not doing something right?

371
01:10:32,208 --> 01:10:33,541
So we're just going to ban it altogether.

372
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:35,416
People don't like that, right?

373
01:10:35,541 --> 01:10:36,541
Restaurants serves drinks

374
01:10:36,541 --> 01:10:38,208
without straws unless requested.

375
01:10:38,208 --> 01:10:39,875
So that's one way of doing it.

376
01:10:39,875 --> 01:10:41,875
So restaurants could just not serve it

377
01:10:41,875 --> 01:10:43,041
and then people like I want my plastic

378
01:10:43,041 --> 01:10:43,916
straw and then they

379
01:10:43,916 --> 01:10:44,875
have to give it to them.

380
01:10:44,875 --> 01:10:45,500
Nobody wants to have

381
01:10:45,500 --> 01:10:46,416
that kind of conflict.

382
01:10:46,833 --> 01:10:48,458
Then there's a status quo by so people

383
01:10:48,458 --> 01:10:49,500
stick to what's familiar.

384
01:10:49,791 --> 01:10:51,541
So like I said plastic straws have been

385
01:10:51,541 --> 01:10:53,041
in our culture for a long time here in

386
01:10:53,041 --> 01:10:53,791
North America anyway,

387
01:10:54,125 --> 01:10:55,916
and we see it all over the world and

388
01:10:55,916 --> 01:10:57,333
sometimes people think it's cleaner.

389
01:10:57,541 --> 01:10:58,958
Some people don't want to drink out of

390
01:10:58,958 --> 01:11:00,291
the drink because it's been reused by a

391
01:11:00,291 --> 01:11:00,875
lot of people even

392
01:11:00,875 --> 01:11:02,291
though dishwashers are crazy.

393
01:11:02,791 --> 01:11:04,500
When you think about how much they clean

394
01:11:04,500 --> 01:11:06,458
and how hot they get but regardless

395
01:11:06,458 --> 01:11:07,875
people just don't like to

396
01:11:07,875 --> 01:11:09,500
get out of that norm, right?

397
01:11:09,625 --> 01:11:10,541
That what's familiar.

398
01:11:11,083 --> 01:11:12,333
So to ensure that sustainable

399
01:11:12,333 --> 01:11:13,208
alternatives are just

400
01:11:13,208 --> 01:11:14,458
as convenient or better.

401
01:11:14,708 --> 01:11:16,333
We have to like invest in better

402
01:11:16,333 --> 01:11:17,416
biodegradable materials

403
01:11:17,416 --> 01:11:19,333
instead of just banning plastic.

404
01:11:19,333 --> 01:11:20,916
So people want straws now.

405
01:11:20,916 --> 01:11:22,125
It's a matter of coming up with a better

406
01:11:22,125 --> 01:11:24,000
product that makes sure that people are

407
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:24,958
like, okay, you know what?

408
01:11:24,958 --> 01:11:26,791
I actually like this a lot better and

409
01:11:26,791 --> 01:11:27,875
this is just like the social norms.

410
01:11:28,166 --> 01:11:29,125
People just follow the crowd.

411
01:11:29,458 --> 01:11:30,375
We all know this.

412
01:11:30,375 --> 01:11:32,041
We have cults that follow each other.

413
01:11:32,166 --> 01:11:33,458
We have people that follow each other.

414
01:11:33,458 --> 01:11:34,875
We always talk about how there's a hockey

415
01:11:34,875 --> 01:11:36,583
cult and there's a football cult and

416
01:11:36,583 --> 01:11:37,208
there's a basketball

417
01:11:37,208 --> 01:11:38,625
cult and all this thing.

418
01:11:38,625 --> 01:11:40,708
It's like a cult following movies want

419
01:11:40,708 --> 01:11:42,083
cult followings because people will

420
01:11:42,083 --> 01:11:43,416
follow what people suggest.

421
01:11:43,958 --> 01:11:45,750
And so if people are either for or

422
01:11:45,750 --> 01:11:47,583
against something you're going to be

423
01:11:47,583 --> 01:11:49,750
influenced by your peers who are for or

424
01:11:49,750 --> 01:11:52,291
against something right and so showing

425
01:11:52,291 --> 01:11:54,125
that most people are making the switch to

426
01:11:54,125 --> 01:11:54,958
reuse to sustainable

427
01:11:54,958 --> 01:11:56,458
alternatives might be better.

428
01:11:56,458 --> 01:11:58,166
So campaigns that highlight businesses or

429
01:11:58,166 --> 01:11:59,625
cities that are going plastic-free could

430
01:11:59,625 --> 01:12:01,125
be a good alternative like you know what?

431
01:12:01,416 --> 01:12:03,083
I like the fact that somebody is going

432
01:12:03,083 --> 01:12:04,875
out sustainable and I know how expensive.

433
01:12:04,875 --> 01:12:05,583
I know how hard it is.

434
01:12:05,583 --> 01:12:06,625
So I'm going to support that business

435
01:12:06,625 --> 01:12:08,833
more because that's my values.

436
01:12:09,166 --> 01:12:10,375
Not everybody's going to do that, but it

437
01:12:10,375 --> 01:12:12,166
shows a little more of a positive impact

438
01:12:12,166 --> 01:12:13,000
instead of a negative.

439
01:12:13,291 --> 01:12:14,458
We're going to take it away.

440
01:12:14,666 --> 01:12:15,750
So then there's just more licensing.

441
01:12:16,083 --> 01:12:19,000
I recycle so I can use a plastic straw.

442
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:19,750
So there's a fact is like

443
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:20,833
I do something sustainable.

444
01:12:20,833 --> 01:12:22,041
So that offsets whatever.

445
01:12:22,291 --> 01:12:23,541
I don't do that sustainable.

446
01:12:23,541 --> 01:12:25,166
I think that's what a lot of people feel.

447
01:12:25,416 --> 01:12:25,958
Then there's also

448
01:12:25,958 --> 01:12:27,708
like political identity.

449
01:12:27,708 --> 01:12:28,958
So it's avoid polarization.

450
01:12:29,291 --> 01:12:30,458
So keep the messaging

451
01:12:30,458 --> 01:12:32,041
inclusive and nonpartisan.

452
01:12:33,250 --> 01:12:33,833
That's really difficult

453
01:12:33,833 --> 01:12:34,791
thing to do these days.

454
01:12:34,791 --> 01:12:35,041
Isn't it?

455
01:12:35,041 --> 01:12:36,416
Even on this episode, I

456
01:12:36,416 --> 01:12:37,125
have a lot of problems.

457
01:12:37,125 --> 01:12:39,125
I just did an episode on what was the

458
01:12:39,125 --> 01:12:41,083
cuts to know and EPA in the comments.

459
01:12:41,083 --> 01:12:42,166
I got man and even

460
01:12:42,166 --> 01:12:43,208
responding to the comments.

461
01:12:43,208 --> 01:12:44,833
I had to learn a lesson or two.

462
01:12:44,833 --> 01:12:45,541
Let's just be honest.

463
01:12:45,958 --> 01:12:49,083
And so having the focus on shared values

464
01:12:49,083 --> 01:12:52,166
of values people like nature people like

465
01:12:52,166 --> 01:12:54,250
being outdoors a lot of people like that.

466
01:12:54,291 --> 01:12:57,125
So to be able to focus on protecting the

467
01:12:57,125 --> 01:12:59,333
outdoors protecting what you see enjoying

468
01:12:59,333 --> 01:13:01,916
that pristine this and that quietness and

469
01:13:01,916 --> 01:13:03,875
that just health of the environment

470
01:13:03,875 --> 01:13:06,125
because it's healthy to the people there

471
01:13:06,125 --> 01:13:08,333
are people on both sides the aisle or all

472
01:13:08,333 --> 01:13:09,583
sides the aisle that love nature.

473
01:13:09,791 --> 01:13:11,166
And that's what we need to really focus

474
01:13:11,166 --> 01:13:12,375
on is those shared values.

475
01:13:12,708 --> 01:13:13,958
So there are five things that in the

476
01:13:13,958 --> 01:13:15,333
future that we can do that will make a

477
01:13:15,333 --> 01:13:16,375
more effective campaign.

478
01:13:16,375 --> 01:13:18,500
So let's focus on bigger wins.

479
01:13:18,500 --> 01:13:20,708
So instead of just straws target high

480
01:13:20,708 --> 01:13:21,833
impact pollution sources.

481
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:22,833
So plastic bags

482
01:13:22,833 --> 01:13:24,958
fishing gear microplastics.

483
01:13:25,291 --> 01:13:26,375
These will all be better.

484
01:13:26,750 --> 01:13:29,083
So policy efforts should tackle corporate

485
01:13:29,083 --> 01:13:30,208
plastic waste not

486
01:13:30,208 --> 01:13:31,583
just consumer behaviors.

487
01:13:31,583 --> 01:13:33,375
Let's start getting at the bigger impact

488
01:13:33,375 --> 01:13:35,000
here bigger means better.

489
01:13:35,125 --> 01:13:36,291
So not just individual

490
01:13:36,291 --> 01:13:38,083
waste talk about bigger impacts.

491
01:13:38,083 --> 01:13:39,750
Let's be honest when we talk about

492
01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:40,750
businesses even

493
01:13:40,750 --> 01:13:42,000
businesses here in Burlington,

494
01:13:42,166 --> 01:13:44,208
Ontario a lot of the like where the

495
01:13:44,208 --> 01:13:45,375
office where everybody's going back to

496
01:13:45,375 --> 01:13:46,125
office all the offices.

497
01:13:46,500 --> 01:13:46,875
They don't necessarily

498
01:13:46,875 --> 01:13:47,916
have recycling programs.

499
01:13:48,125 --> 01:13:48,750
It's all a sham.

500
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,000
So let's talk about reducing the waste at

501
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,291
corporate levels and at businesses and we

502
01:13:53,291 --> 01:13:55,375
can start doing a lot better providing

503
01:13:55,375 --> 01:13:56,333
better alternatives.

504
01:13:56,750 --> 01:13:58,208
So invest in better materials like we

505
01:13:58,208 --> 01:13:59,750
talked about biodegradable options that

506
01:13:59,750 --> 01:14:01,541
truly break down in the marine

507
01:14:01,541 --> 01:14:02,750
environment and not in your mouth.

508
01:14:03,166 --> 01:14:04,625
That's really what comes down to so paper

509
01:14:04,625 --> 01:14:06,166
straws need to get stronger, which I do

510
01:14:06,166 --> 01:14:07,083
believe again stronger.

511
01:14:07,083 --> 01:14:08,166
I just went to the movies the other day

512
01:14:08,166 --> 01:14:10,000
had a paper straw and it

513
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:11,458
actually lasted the entire movie.

514
01:14:11,458 --> 01:14:12,083
No problem.

515
01:14:12,333 --> 01:14:12,916
So I don't know what

516
01:14:12,916 --> 01:14:13,791
people are talking about.

517
01:14:13,791 --> 01:14:15,000
Maybe it's like the old type of

518
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:16,958
materials, but this is a little better.

519
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,416
But you have to invest in better

520
01:14:18,416 --> 01:14:19,750
alternatives so that people are like,

521
01:14:19,958 --> 01:14:20,750
yeah, I can see this.

522
01:14:20,750 --> 01:14:22,250
This is not that big of a deal, right?

523
01:14:22,583 --> 01:14:23,500
Especially when we talk about the

524
01:14:23,500 --> 01:14:24,916
resistance to behavior change.

525
01:14:25,333 --> 01:14:27,291
So shift bands to smart policies.

526
01:14:27,875 --> 01:14:29,625
So use opt-out strategies like we talked

527
01:14:29,625 --> 01:14:30,916
about restaurants being like, you know,

528
01:14:30,916 --> 01:14:32,333
what we're not going to serve it unless

529
01:14:32,333 --> 01:14:33,625
you ask for it, right?

530
01:14:33,625 --> 01:14:34,958
Or we're going to serve different ones

531
01:14:34,958 --> 01:14:35,875
until like we're not

532
01:14:35,875 --> 01:14:37,208
forcing people to take it.

533
01:14:37,416 --> 01:14:38,500
So implement incentive.

534
01:14:38,500 --> 01:14:40,500
So rather than punishments give discounts

535
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:41,875
for bringing a reusable cup.

536
01:14:42,625 --> 01:14:43,500
That's not a bad idea.

537
01:14:43,583 --> 01:14:46,166
So make it a positive experience and then

538
01:14:46,166 --> 01:14:47,791
for engage the public

539
01:14:47,791 --> 01:14:49,041
with positive messaging.

540
01:14:49,375 --> 01:14:51,000
So instead of don't use plastic straws

541
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,291
say join millions of ocean protectors

542
01:14:53,291 --> 01:14:56,000
reducing plastic waste or small changes

543
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,375
create a cleaner ocean.

544
01:14:58,291 --> 01:14:59,083
The last thing is use

545
01:14:59,083 --> 01:15:00,166
local leaders and communities.

546
01:15:00,166 --> 01:15:02,333
So instead of top-down government bands,

547
01:15:02,791 --> 01:15:04,791
let businesses influencers and

548
01:15:04,791 --> 01:15:06,708
communities lead the change.

549
01:15:07,166 --> 01:15:08,041
These are the different things that we

550
01:15:08,041 --> 01:15:10,125
can do from a behavior change perspective

551
01:15:10,125 --> 01:15:11,291
that will help future

552
01:15:11,291 --> 01:15:12,458
campaigns from working.

553
01:15:12,791 --> 01:15:13,583
Let's not just focus

554
01:15:13,583 --> 01:15:14,333
on the little things.

555
01:15:14,541 --> 01:15:16,333
Let's focus on bigger impact.

556
01:15:16,708 --> 01:15:18,250
Get people to like get the owners off the

557
01:15:18,250 --> 01:15:20,208
individual and more on a community level

558
01:15:20,208 --> 01:15:22,333
and get people behind the campaign

559
01:15:22,333 --> 01:15:23,125
instead of just

560
01:15:23,125 --> 01:15:24,500
talking about it against it.

561
01:15:24,500 --> 01:15:25,958
And let's not force things on people.

562
01:15:25,958 --> 01:15:26,708
Let's allow them to

563
01:15:26,708 --> 01:15:27,833
choose people like choice.

564
01:15:28,083 --> 01:15:28,750
Let's force them.

565
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:29,875
So that's sort of the

566
01:15:29,875 --> 01:15:30,833
end of this episode.

567
01:15:30,833 --> 01:15:32,500
I want to just kind of let people know

568
01:15:32,500 --> 01:15:34,833
like I am for banning plastic.

569
01:15:35,291 --> 01:15:37,416
I am for this type of work, but maybe

570
01:15:37,416 --> 01:15:38,875
this is not the right way of

571
01:15:38,875 --> 01:15:39,750
doing this type of campaign.

572
01:15:39,791 --> 01:15:41,041
We've seen this done all

573
01:15:41,041 --> 01:15:42,541
over the US all over Canada.

574
01:15:42,958 --> 01:15:45,375
And although it makes it easier to take

575
01:15:45,375 --> 01:15:46,958
out single-use plastics altogether.

576
01:15:46,958 --> 01:15:48,458
And I do agree with some of these bands.

577
01:15:48,875 --> 01:15:50,625
Maybe give people the choice.

578
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:52,583
Maybe allow business to lead with the

579
01:15:52,583 --> 01:15:54,625
choice and focus on incentives rather

580
01:15:54,625 --> 01:15:56,041
than taking away and maybe

581
01:15:56,041 --> 01:15:57,083
giving a little discount.

582
01:15:57,083 --> 01:15:57,708
It's a little hard to

583
01:15:57,708 --> 01:15:58,916
live out here, right?

584
01:15:58,958 --> 01:15:59,583
A little hard to live.

585
01:15:59,583 --> 01:16:01,208
Some discounts would really help from

586
01:16:01,208 --> 01:16:02,416
businesses and even

587
01:16:02,416 --> 01:16:03,166
government incentives.

588
01:16:03,416 --> 01:16:05,000
So that's the episode for today.

589
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:06,250
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

590
01:16:06,291 --> 01:16:08,291
What you thought went wrong with the

591
01:16:08,291 --> 01:16:09,125
plastic band and how you

592
01:16:09,125 --> 01:16:10,125
think it could do better.

593
01:16:10,125 --> 01:16:11,958
I don't care if you're Republican, if

594
01:16:11,958 --> 01:16:13,583
you're Democrat, if you're liberal

595
01:16:13,583 --> 01:16:14,708
conservative, I would

596
01:16:14,708 --> 01:16:16,375
love to hear what you think.

597
01:16:16,375 --> 01:16:17,541
Is it even worth it at all?

598
01:16:17,958 --> 01:16:19,166
So leave a comment down below on the

599
01:16:19,166 --> 01:16:20,833
YouTube channel or on Spotify.

600
01:16:21,458 --> 01:16:22,500
And if you want to get a hold of me, you

601
01:16:22,500 --> 01:16:24,000
can do so on Instagram at

602
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:25,208
how to protect the ocean.

603
01:16:25,208 --> 01:16:26,750
That's how to protect the ocean.

604
01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:29,000
And also don't forget to subscribe and

605
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:30,375
hit that notification bell here on

606
01:16:30,375 --> 01:16:33,041
YouTube to be able to get access to our

607
01:16:33,041 --> 01:16:34,458
Monday Wednesday and Friday shows.

608
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:35,458
And there's going to be even some more

609
01:16:35,458 --> 01:16:36,500
episodes coming soon.

610
01:16:36,791 --> 01:16:38,125
So don't miss out.

611
01:16:38,125 --> 01:16:39,500
So subscribe, hit that notification bell.

612
01:16:39,750 --> 01:16:40,958
And thank you so much for joining me on

613
01:16:40,958 --> 01:16:41,916
today's episode of the How

614
01:16:41,916 --> 01:16:42,708
to Protect the Ocean podcast.

615
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:43,791
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin.

616
01:16:44,041 --> 01:16:44,583
Have a great day.

617
01:16:44,583 --> 01:16:45,125
We'll talk to you next

618
01:16:45,125 --> 01:16:46,416
time and happy conservation.