Why the US Might Start Deep Sea Mining (And What It Means for the Ocean)

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Have you ever wondered why the U.S.

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hasn't really been brought up in the

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conversation of deep sea mining?

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That's because it's never really been a

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topic, probably because they can't really

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deep sea mined in international waters

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because they are not part of the United

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Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea,

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which plays a big role in shaping,

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you know, the deep sea

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mining and the fact that the U.S.

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is not part of it has played another deep

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role, a huge role in the country

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and not being able to approach deep sea

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mining both legally and politically.

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So here is today we're on the podcast.

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We're going to be

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talking about why the U.S.

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hasn't got into it and latest

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thing of the metals company,

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which is a Canadian company,

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trying to work with the U.S.

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and Donald Trump to actually start mining

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within the deep sea,

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within their natural borders, within the

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United States exclusive economic zone.

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We're going to be talking about that on

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today's episode of the How to Protect

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the Ocean podcast, a scary topic. The U.S. is not a signatory of the United

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Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,

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which is known as UNCLOSE.

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I'm going to call it that

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because it's easy to do.

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I know it's jargon, but it has a domestic

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laws, but also has

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domestic laws governing deep sea

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money. So the big question here, once it

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came out, people are freaking out.

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Look, Donald Trump is president.

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You never know what's going to happen.

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He tends to like extractive processes.

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Deep sea mining is an extractive process

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that could be a little lucrative in terms

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of the money it brings not only to the

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companies that work with the countries

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that would like this to

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happen, but also, you know,

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the country itself, they want to make

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money and they want to be able to use

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their natural resources to make money.

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So I can't blame them.

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Then somebody like Donald Trump, who is

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into making money and is not

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having a great three months,

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depending on how you look at it.

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But the lately the stock market has

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crashed from his

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tariffs, his reciprocal tariffs,

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you know, taxing islands that are not

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inhabited, only inhabited by

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seals and penguins and stuff.

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And so it's not going great.

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Now, this is not going to make him

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popular for a lot of people,

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which he doesn't care about.

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But there are some really interesting

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matters at hand of can the US actually

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use, you know, the metals

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company to be their exploratory

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deep sea mining company?

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And that's really what it comes down to.

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There was a great article written by Dr.

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Andrew Thaler, who's been on the podcast

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a number of times to talk about deep sea

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mining and the deep sea.

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He's a deep sea ecologist.

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It's involved in a lot of projects.

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The last time we actually had him on, he

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was talking about his foray

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into D and D for forest ecology,

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Dungeons and Dragons with no community

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members for forest ecology.

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So he talks a lot of a lot about things.

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But his main focus right now is deep sea

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mining and has been over the last his

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whole career, really,

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because he did his PhD in it.

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And it's been the editor of the largest

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deep sea mining magazine in the world.

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And he just keeps writing on Southern

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Fried Science dot com, which was his blog

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that he started with a number of

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different colleagues back in the day.

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And it's just it's an amazing article.

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I highly recommend that you take a look

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at it because we're going to be talking

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about it all day today on this episode

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all day during this episode, which

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doesn't take all day to record.

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I trust you. Trust me.

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But we're going to be talking about it.

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And so go over to

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Southern Fried Science dot com.

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Check out the article.

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I'll put the link in the show notes.

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But he talks about relevant US

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legislation that matters when we're

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looking at deep sea mining in the US.

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So it's really can this

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company in particular do this?

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They're probably the best place company

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because they have so much money invested.

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They have the technology.

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They know the technology.

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They've been working

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with the ISA for a while.

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Now, the reason why they're going to the

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US is because the ISA has recently

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changed secretary generals.

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The secretary general now is

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I'm trying to miss Leticia.

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And if I can remember her

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last name, I don't know.

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I still have the article up here.

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Sorry, Miss Leticia race de Cavallo, who

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was who was basically elected, started

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her secretary general

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position on January 1st, 2025.

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She is also an oceanographer.

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She is the fourth

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secretary general of the ISA.

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And she was elected in August and it was

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a bit of a surprise because the ISA

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secretary general that that was there

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before he was known to be a little bit

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more biased towards the companies.

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I don't know if that's true or not, but

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some of his policies that came out, some

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of his focuses have come out

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that said, hey, you know what?

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Like, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna mine.

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Eventually, it's just a matter of doing

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the regulations and figuring this out.

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Well, a lot of other people are like,

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let's pause, even killing many countries.

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Let's just pause this and let's figure

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out whether this is

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going to be safe or not.

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So the election spark or the election

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came up because Miss

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Leticia was like, you know what?

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I think I can do a better job.

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I can be more partial.

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I'm an oceanographer.

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I understand what's happening in the deep

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sea of better understanding than most.

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And so she gets elected all of a sudden.

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Great for the environment.

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At least we have somebody who has a

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background in oceanography.

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We've been asking for people in these

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positions to have that type of background

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and not just a business background.

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So I say it was like we

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need to hold off on the money.

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We need to do more research and we need

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to discuss this a little bit more.

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TMC was like the Meadows Company.

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The Canadian company was like, no, no, I

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don't want to do that.

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I want to I want to mine.

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I'm sick of this.

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And I know I'm not going to get the

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answers that I need in

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this like in this forum.

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So I'm going to go to a democracy country

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that has a new president who's very into

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extractive processes.

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And I'm going to go ahead and talk to

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Donald Trump and say, hey, Donald.

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Hey, Mr. President.

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Let's how about we start extracting

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polymetallic nodules off this off the sea

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floor in jurisdiction like in a

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jurisdiction for the U.S.

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And so apparently, according to studies

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or according to reports, the

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administration surprise surprise is

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interested in that kind of stuff.

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And so we're going to discuss some of the

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relevant legislation, U.S. legislation

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that matters in this in this situation.

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So the first thing I identified by Dr.

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Andrew Taylor was the Deep Sea Hard

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Mineral Resources Act, which regulates

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exploit exploration,

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exploitation of deep sea minerals.

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The other one is the outer criminal

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criminal outer

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continental shelf Lands Act.

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It extends U.S. laws to the seabed and

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subsoil of the outer continental shelf.

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And then there's the Jones Act, which is

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also known as the Marine as the Merchant

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Marine Act of 1920, which mandates the

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cargo transporter between U.S.

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points must be on vessels built owned and

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operated by U.S. citizens.

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So here is the thing for the compliance

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to meet for the TMC

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to meet the compliance.

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It really comes down to the Jones Act,

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the hidden gem, which is a vessel owned

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by all seas, which is a

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Dutch company works for TMC.

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The MV Coco, which is owned by Magellan

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based in Guernsey, which I believe is

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foreign, I think it's in

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France, they are not U.S. owned.

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Neither vessel complies with the Jones

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Act requirements, posing a significant

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operational challenge for TMC.

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So essentially what happens is for this

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to be in compliance with the Jones Act,

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the ship that's carrying the cargo from

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point where they extract it.

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So point A to point B back to

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a U.S. port has to be American.

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Right now, the TMC does not have an

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American ship. Does that mean they can't

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get an American ship?

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I'm sure they can find it. I'm sure they

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can figure it out. But at this point,

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they may not be able to use that.

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The other thing too is because the Outer

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Continental Shelf Lands Act extends

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jurisdiction to certain seabeds, certain

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seabed areas potentially like outside of

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the U.S. jurisdiction.

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This classifies TMC's mining sites as

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U.S. points once

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operations are commenced.

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So essentially the loophole of saying,

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hey, you know what, even though this is

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beyond your

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jurisdiction, this is our land.

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So going into like the Gulf of Mexico and

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certain places in Mexico

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are actually available.

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Well, not so because it's still be

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considered American jurisdiction

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according to the Outer

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Continental Shelf Lands Act.

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So that means they still have to the

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Jones Act still applies.

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They still have to use

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American vessels again.

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Can they get American vessels?

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I'm sure they can find

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something they don't.

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They're not. I don't know what their

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contracts are like with

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the other two vessels.

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But, you know, I'm sure they can figure

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it out if they really, really want to, if

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they're motivated,

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which seems like they are.

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So it's it's pretty interesting.

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The U.S. Mexico Western

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Gap Treaty extended over U.S.

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jurisdiction over a specific high seas

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areas, indicating that U.S. can assert

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jurisdiction over seabed resources,

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resources beyond their jurisdiction in

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the exclusive economic zone.

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So that's something of interest.

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And if the U.S. claims jurisdiction over

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high seas resources, the Jones Act does

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apply, as I mentioned before.

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So to comply with the Jones Act, TMC

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would have to use vessels that meet the

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stringent requirements,

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which the current fleet does not.

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And this regulatory hurdle could

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complicate TMC strategies to operate

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under U.S. jurisdiction and may require

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significant adjustments

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to their operational plans.

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And to be honest, if the U.S. gets the

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idea of starting to, you know, mine for

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these polymetallic nodules, what's in it

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for them to say, hey, we're

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going to hire a Canadian company?

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Look, let's be honest, they're not.

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Canada is not in favor

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with the U.S. right now.

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Also, they they want it for themselves.

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There's nothing stopping them from

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saying, hey, you know what?

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We're actually just going to get a

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company ourselves or do it by government

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and we'll figure it ourselves and we'll

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take the time and we'll get the relevant

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information, the relevant technology, the

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relevant ships and we'll do it our way.

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You know, mind you, they

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could also change their laws.

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So there's a bit of a bit of a scary

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thing going on here is really what it

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comes down to is like, is the U.S. really

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going to take this seriously?

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I haven't heard anything else in the news

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since this has happened, but this was

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very worrisome a week ago

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when this first came out.

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And I'm glad Andrew

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started talking about it.

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I'm also glad that Chris

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Corbero started talking about it.

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She is on TikTok and she

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has a great post on it.

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I'll link to it in the show notes on, you

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00:11:03,291 --> 00:11:04,166
know, how you can act

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and what you can do.

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But I think it's it's super important to

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be able to talk about this and to be able

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to say, hey, you know what?

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This is something that

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we need to talk about.

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This is something that we need to assess

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whether it is a threat or not.

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This is something that we can't just let

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it go by, you know, because there's been

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a lot of work that's

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00:11:22,375 --> 00:11:24,208
been pushed onto the I.S.A.

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in terms of non-government organizations,

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scientists, governments who have been

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put, who have been put a lot of research,

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00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,875
a lot of money and a lot of time and to

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make sure that we do this properly.

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And although some have been rushed into

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it and others have not, it seems to have

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been pretty much gone in a way that we,

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as Andrew says, we have this

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wonderful opportunity to do this right.

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If we are going to extract minerals, we

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can do the studies to make sure that

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nothing happens or to do it in a way that

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we have the least amount of impact on it.

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Am I for deep sea mining?

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Absolutely not.

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Do I think it's going

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to happen in my lifetime?

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Probably.

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Is it going to affect

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the the the EV community?

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Because that's why people want a deep sea

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minus for electric vehicles to have the

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00:12:07,583 --> 00:12:09,458
metals to make the batteries, which are

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currently mined in many places.

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But mostly in the Republic of Congo,

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which there are a lot of human rights

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violations that are

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associated with that project.

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And so being able to have it where human

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rights are not affected and be able to

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have it where you can just extract it as

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00:12:24,958 --> 00:12:28,000
you please, that would be helpful if this

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extraction is going to happen.

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Now, with the the developments, the huge

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developments and advancements in the

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technology to create batteries where the

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metals are used for electric vehicles,

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00:12:39,791 --> 00:12:40,500
some of them are using

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00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:41,500
these metals anymore.

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And they're they're much more sustainable

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in the way we dispose of them and the way

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00:12:48,375 --> 00:12:49,583
we use them, the way we build them.

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So the development is getting fast.

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00:12:51,875 --> 00:12:52,541
The technology is

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00:12:52,541 --> 00:12:54,000
increasing at a rapid rate.

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Do we need this in the long run?

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Hopefully not.

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Is this going to happen in my lifetime?

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00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,041
I do think so, but

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I'm not happy about it.

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But if we're going to

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do it, let's do it right.

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And let's make sure that we are on the

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proactive side instead of the reactive

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00:13:05,791 --> 00:13:07,625
side, which we're usually on the end of

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00:13:07,625 --> 00:13:10,291
the reactive side when we're extracting

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00:13:10,291 --> 00:13:11,583
marine resources or any type of thing.

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So, you know, if you want to do it, you can do it and you can do it.

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00:13:12,166 --> 00:13:12,833
But I do want to make sure that we're doing it. I mean, I think it's a pretty good idea to do it, but I really like how you build on it. So, you know, I'm going to do a little bit of
a quick demo, which is a little bit of a quick demo because it's going to be a really nice video about how we're going to create these different types of resources around the sea

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00:13:12,833 --> 00:13:14,625
or around nature in general.

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So this is what we're talking about today

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and I'd love to hear

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00:13:17,958 --> 00:13:19,041
your opinion on that.

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00:13:19,041 --> 00:13:20,541
Hit me up on Instagram at

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00:13:20,541 --> 00:13:21,750
how to protect the ocean.

402
00:13:22,333 --> 00:13:24,291
I've got a different episode of the on

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00:13:24,291 --> 00:13:25,166
YouTube if you want to

404
00:13:25,166 --> 00:13:26,291
check that out as well.

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00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,458
There's not a lot of resources.

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00:13:28,666 --> 00:13:29,666
I just said it in a different

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00:13:29,666 --> 00:13:30,958
way because I'm doing it more.

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It's going to be a little shorter.

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But I want to create

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something different for the audio.

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Just a little bit more raw, a little bit

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00:13:43,125 --> 00:13:44,333
more old school for me

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00:13:44,333 --> 00:13:45,500
in terms of the way I do

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00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:45,708
it.

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00:13:46,041 --> 00:13:47,500
It kind of excites me a little bit.

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00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:48,708
YouTube's great.

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00:13:48,708 --> 00:13:50,041
I love doing the video, but it's going to

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00:13:50,041 --> 00:13:51,458
be done a little differently.

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00:13:51,708 --> 00:13:52,458
So we're going to do

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00:13:52,458 --> 00:13:53,208
it in different ways.

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00:13:53,208 --> 00:13:55,291
So you can listen to it on video or on

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00:13:55,291 --> 00:13:57,125
your way to work through

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00:13:57,125 --> 00:13:59,041
audio or on your dog walks

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00:13:59,041 --> 00:14:00,583
or in your nature walks or however you

425
00:14:00,583 --> 00:14:00,958
want to do it

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00:14:00,958 --> 00:14:02,333
exercising, however you want to

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00:14:02,333 --> 00:14:02,625
do it.

428
00:14:02,916 --> 00:14:04,041
Just listen to me, please.

429
00:14:04,250 --> 00:14:04,708
I'm just kidding.

430
00:14:05,458 --> 00:14:06,916
I love that you listen to me and I love

431
00:14:06,916 --> 00:14:07,916
the feedback even more.

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00:14:08,333 --> 00:14:10,500
So hit me up on Instagram at how to

433
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:12,458
protect the ocean or hit me up on the

434
00:14:12,458 --> 00:14:14,666
website speakupforblue.com.

435
00:14:14,666 --> 00:14:16,916
That's speakupforblue.com.

436
00:14:17,333 --> 00:14:17,958
Check it out.

437
00:14:17,958 --> 00:14:19,916
There's you can leave me a voice memo.

438
00:14:19,916 --> 00:14:21,375
You can go to our contact page and you

439
00:14:21,375 --> 00:14:22,500
can just write me an email.

440
00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:24,291
I answer that personally.

441
00:14:24,333 --> 00:14:25,958
I'd love to hear your

442
00:14:25,958 --> 00:14:27,083
thoughts on all of this.

443
00:14:27,083 --> 00:14:28,333
So thank you so much for joining me on

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00:14:28,333 --> 00:14:29,458
today's episode of the How

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00:14:29,458 --> 00:14:30,333
to Protect the Ocean podcast.

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00:14:30,625 --> 00:14:32,333
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True

447
00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:33,250
North strong and free.

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00:14:33,708 --> 00:14:34,250
Have a great day.

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00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:34,791
We'll talk to you next

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00:14:34,791 --> 00:14:36,291
time and happy conservation.